@Formation:
From reading the manga.
Nowhere in the manga is that stuff stated. Seriously, have you ever considered that when absolutely nobody agrees with you, it might be because you are wrong
@Formation:
From reading the manga.
Nowhere in the manga is that stuff stated. Seriously, have you ever considered that when absolutely nobody agrees with you, it might be because you are wrong
Nowhere in the manga is that stuff stated. Seriously, have you ever considered that when absolutely nobody agrees with you, it might be because you are wrong
Yes you are right there isn't a lot of competition in Wano sorry for what I said.
@Formation:
Yes you are right there isn't a lot of competition in Wano sorry for what I said.
Well, nobody's saying that.
But there is absolutely no evidence that any of the samurai in Wano can compete with frickin' ADMIRALS.
probably not but they are force to be reckon with
Well, nobody's saying that.
But there is absolutely no evidence that any of the samurai in Wano can compete with frickin' ADMIRALS.
!
I feel like I'm getting old in this thread like Koshiro and start to lose his hair and look like Gorosei sword guy…
@Formation:
! http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyq22lrRtt1qk49gz.png
I feel like I'm getting old in this thread like Koshiro and start to lose his hair and look like Gorosei sword guy…
In fairness, this is coming from Brook. Any historical information given by him is outdated by at least five decades. Five decades ago this could have been the case, but not so much now. There maybe one guy there now that's admiral strength, but I'm a bit more confident that if nothing else Wano is like Amazon Lily and everyone has color of armaments.
@Superbear:
In fairness, this is coming from Brook. Any historical information given by him is outdated by at least five decades.
Doesn't change anything about there being 4 Samurai that were blackened out, they will be introduced in the story.
They aren't characters who will be in a flashback because they are the current Samurai. Even if they are Samurai who are from when Brook was around (makes no sense at all might as well show Yonkous from Rogers age) they can have successors.If you have common sense it's the same situation as Admirals being replaced.
I don't see anywhere there that any given samurai is admiral strength. It's far more likely that there are a number of strong, but not that strong, samurai on the island and that there isn't enough stuff there for the world government to justify mounting an assualt. Just because they don't go near there and conquer Wano doesn't mean they couldn't. It simply means it isn't worth it to them. Which is also probably just as much about holding the island as it is about the initial invasion
@Formation:
Doesn't change anything about there being 4 Samurai that were blackened out, they will be introduced in the story.
They aren't characters who will be in a flashback because there are current Samurai who are just as strong as them. If you have common sense it's the same situation as Admirals being replaced.
I didn't rule out the possibility of there being samurai there that are strong as admirals I said "maybe".
@Formation:
Doesn't change anything about there being 4 Samurai that were blackened out, they will be introduced in the story.
They aren't characters who will be in a flashback because they are the current Samurai. even if they are Samurai who are from when Brook was around they can have successors.If you have common sense it's the same situation as Admirals being replaced.
YOu're making a shitload of assumptions. Is there any evidence those a re actual characters and not just random silhouettes that are made to look samurai like as a visual cue? And the number is most likely irrelevant and chosen because of the panel size and the like
Are the Admirals a part of the Marines?
If you know the answer there is nothing else to be said here.
@Formation:
Are the Admirals a part of the Marines?
If you know the answer there is nothing else to be said here.
Again you're making the gigantic assumption that the marines don't take over Wano because they'd be evenly matched. WHich is ridiculous. It's most likely that it isn't worth the time and effort to the Marines to take it over. THe marines are a world power, Wano is not. I'm sure the marines could sweep in with the admirals and vice admirals alone and conquer Wano, but that in and of itself would leave them vulnerable. TO give a real world parallel, Ethiopia was the only African country that wasn't conquered by the Europeans in the age of imperialism, but they were still a lot weaker than any European nation. It just remained free because it provided enough resistance to make it so it wasn't worth the effort
@Formation:
Are the Admirals a part of the Marines?
If you know the answer there is nothing else to be said here.
Why would the marines bother sending their elite forces to lead a war against a single nation in a remote part of the world that's clearly resistant to outside influence and has never bothered them?
The government has far more important matters to deal with in the New World alone, and that's an incredible waste of manpower. Wano will be a strong country, but you're implying that the only reason the government doesn't go there is because they have no ranks that can par up to them.
Which is an enormous leap in logic.
Why would the marines bother sending their elite forces to lead a war against a single nation in a remote part of the world that's clearly resistant to outside influence and has never bothered them?
The government has far more important matters to deal with in the New World alone, and that's an incredible waste of manpower. Wano will be a strong country, but you're implying that the only reason the government doesn't go there is because they have no ranks that can par up to them.Which is an enormous leap in logic.
Imagine if Fleet Admiral Akainu, enpowered by the world government to act independently, has completely wiped out the island of Wano in the time Kinemon has been gone. Sengoku and Garps generation don't seem like the type to attack a closed nation that poses no threat to the seas but Akainu is certainly the type to kill someone for not bowing to the WG.
By not having a place to return to it would eliminate the one of the strongest arguments used against Boa and to a lesser extent Jinbei.
That being said Noqankys isolationist idea seems to be perfect with what we've heard so far about Wano and it doesn't seem unlike Oda to explore the cons to that kind of policy based on Japanese history. For some reason I keep pictureing an island with a double Mount Fuji.
@Formation:
There are a lot of things to consider as to how strong is Wano.
Marines and WG don't go there so there are multiple Admiral level people residing there currently.
Or it's too problematic. If they have to loose a great force to get the job done it's a problem for them.
@Formation:
There are 4 Samurai that are linked with the words strong,Marines/WG don't go there so they are the ones who would be fighting Admirals.
There are 4 shadows because there are only place for four in the panel were Brook is talking. There even seems to be another silhouette behind the buble.@Formation:
Kinemon confirmed there are Ninja/Shinobi as well and Bins makes this statement more legit. Katanas are made there for the warriors so there's plenty of fighters there.
He didn't said they add ninja in his country. Bins? We don't know where the swords are from. We don't even know if they are from the same place.@Formation:
They do nothing but train with their style and master it.
Surely they are normal workers like in amzon Lily.@Formation:
There are styles that are taught down to others just like swords are.
Asumption. We don't know if samurai aren't suppose to create their own style and never saw any swords get pass down.@Formation:
There are no incomplete styles there (Zoro).
Asumption and when you began you don't have the complete style. And it would mean that samurais don't find their own way of using the sword@Formation:
Ryuma was considered legendary but he can't be the only strong one.
He was legendary for having cut a dragon. Zoro did it too. Ryuma was the strongest by far in his time. Luffy beats the island where every woman were taught to fight. Nothing special if Zoro can beat( never said easily) everyone on this island. This wouldn't make them weak just weaker then Zoro.@Formation:
The island has never had Yonkou influence so they don't want to mess with them. Lots of competition there because of the different fighting styles there.
From what we know, you are the one who decide to do a deal with Yonkou.
@Formation:
So in conclusion as to how many strong swordsman they are it's up in the air. You have to include both Samurai and Ninja. We also don't know how Wano runs and it's set up but they have enough hype that there will be a handful of very strong fighters. One of them will train Zoro like Koshiro did (even though he never taught him his techniques or style).
In conclusion, they are strongs swordsman but we should not forget that T-bone was also an excellent swordsman and Octopus was the best of fishman island swordsmans. So being excellent in a fighting style doesn't mean you're gonna rape everyone.
Like I said ,Samurai will be the fishmen of the New World.
I wont pretend like we wont see some impressive swordsmen
BUT Admiral level? Come on…
Also we have to consider the fact that a non Wano swordsmen is considered the
strongest in the world. So again I ask you ,exactly how strong could they be?
Also we have to consider the fact that a non Wano swordsmen is considered the
strongest in the world. So again I ask you ,exactly how strong could they be?
Easy to make argument.
Mihawk as strong as Shanks. Shanks is Yonkou. Mihawk strength= Yonkou strength. Yonkou strength> Admirals strength. Therefore samurais as strong as admiral won't change the fact that Mihawk is the stronger swordsman. And there you have it.
Easy to make argument.
Mihawk as strong as Shanks. Shanks is Yonkou. Mihawk strength= Yonkou strength. Yonkou strength> Admirals strength. Therefore samurais as strong as admiral won't change the fact that Mihawk is the stronger swordsman. And there you have it.
Haven't we been led to believe that Admirals could rival the power of a Yonko?
Haven't we been led to believe that Admirals could rival the power of a Yonko?
Not really. It's all up to personal interpretation.
Haven't we been led to believe that Admirals could rival the power of a Yonko?
For me, yeah, i see the Yonkou and Admirals pretty much on the same level, even though we only saw WB fighting for now.
Haven't we been led to believe that Admirals could rival the power of a Yonko?
Ehhhhh no, Akainu got babyshaked by an enraged, sick, old, and heavily wounded Whitebeard; no matter what he, Kizaru, or Aokiji did he kept coming. Everyone halted fighting when an one-armed Shanks entered Maniford.
@Superbear:
Ehhhhh no, Akainu got babyshaked by an enraged, sick, old, and heavily wounded Whitebeard; no matter what he, Kizaru, or Aokiji did he kept coming. Everyone halted fighting when an one-armed Shanks entered Maniford.
Oh Yeah you mean the guy who tied with the Pirate King Gold Roger?
And Shanks ,Roger's unoffical successor.
@Superbear:
Ehhhhh no, Akainu got babyshaked by an enraged, sick, old, and heavily wounded Whitebeard; no matter what he, Kizaru, or Aokiji did he kept coming. Everyone halted fighting when an one-armed Shanks entered Maniford.
Whitebeard's actions don't speak for the other Yonkō, though… Kind of like the Shichibukai, who vary in strength.
@Superbear:
Ehhhhh no, Akainu got babyshaked by an enraged, sick, old, and heavily wounded Whitebeard; no matter what he, Kizaru, or Aokiji did he kept coming. Everyone halted fighting when an one-armed Shanks entered Maniford.
You completely ignore the fact that both Kizaru and Aokiji were completely unscathed after their respective clash with WB or that Akainu 1.) took two quakes right to the body and still came back fully while half of WB´s face was gone and 2.) was surprised by WB´s attack because he was completely preoccupied with killing Ace and targeting Luffy. Of course you can argue that it was a battlefield and that he should anticipate someone attacking from behind but it still does not negate my point.
I always felt like Wano's closed door policy was a reflection of Japan's own samurai history and how Japan kept itself separate from the world for so many years.
And then when it stopped doing so they realized that they weren't the strongest and were absurdly behind in technology, forcing them to begin paying Europeans and Americans to catch them up.This is pretty much what I'm anticipating from Wano: the fact that Kinemon speaks so mysteriously of devil fruits implies they're not well acknowledged there, and someone will probably try to penetrate their culture with this technology and force them to realize how unprepared they are to defend themselves without help. Perhaps SAD and Kinemon+Momo's presence is a nod towards this development.
That said, I also wanted to point out that Brook is telling us this story from his 50 year old knowledge. This is the same pirate that heard the name Roger and thought "rookie", so his information may be horribly outdated.
^^^^ THIS. COSIGN.
:blink: how has the 'next crewmate' thread become one of 'strenght of Wano'? …did someone mention a troll?
I always felt like Wano's closed door policy was a reflection of Japan's own samurai history and how Japan kept itself separate from the world for so many years.
And then when it stopped doing so they realized that they weren't the strongest and were absurdly behind in technology, forcing them to begin paying Europeans and Americans to catch them up.This is pretty much what I'm anticipating from Wano: the fact that Kinemon speaks so mysteriously of devil fruits implies they're not well acknowledged there, and someone will probably try to penetrate their culture with this technology and force them to realize how unprepared they are to defend themselves without help. Perhaps SAD and Kinemon+Momo's presence is a nod towards this development.
I like this idea and see no reason why it wouldn't be true. We've seen one island, Banaro, that seems to mimic the American Southwest. So thinking Wano is a paralel to the isolationist age of Japan makes sense.
That said, I also wanted to point out that Brook is telling us this story from his 50 year old knowledge. This is the same pirate that heard the name Roger and thought "rookie", so his information may be horribly outdated.
Unfortuenly, I'll have to argue here.
It's been forgotten that Brook has been active and out in the world during the timeskip, he could have gotten the info during then not before. We do know that Brook became a superstar during those two years and was on tour. He could have learned of Wano during the tour. After all before his 50 yrs in isolation, he was a pirate traveling the New World. Stars on tour would need to search for countries to travel to and be perfect place to hear if they are open to strangers or is a closed country.
Again you're making the gigantic assumption that the marines don't take over Wano because they'd be evenly matched. WHich is ridiculous. It's most likely that it isn't worth the time and effort to the Marines to take it over. THe marines are a world power, Wano is not. I'm sure the marines could sweep in with the admirals and vice admirals alone and conquer Wano, but that in and of itself would leave them vulnerable. TO give a real world parallel, Ethiopia was the only African country that wasn't conquered by the Europeans in the age of imperialism, but they were still a lot weaker than any European nation. It just remained free because it provided enough resistance to make it so it wasn't worth the effort
Hmm I didn't know that about Ethiopia (blames poor quality of Texas education system)
This is an excellent point.
Haven't we been led to believe that Admirals could rival the power of a Yonko?
The only proper fight we've seen between a Yonko and an Admiral is WB vs Akainu and WB owned him with one hand (not to say he wasn't injured). Akainu got off easy.
When Shanks decended on the battlefield his crewmate Ben Beckman held Kizaru at gun point and he didn't dare move. No one wanted to do battle with a fresh Yonko even BB who had just killed WB and taken his power said they weren't ready.
Oh Yeah you mean the guy who tied with the Pirate King Gold Roger?
And Shanks ,Roger's unoffical successor.
Yeah, so the be a Yonko you have to have a ridiculous amount of strength considering it took BB some time to become a Yonko even though he had a crew of the most dangerous people in the world and his and WB's devil fruit powers.
Although I think Big Mum is the weakest Yonko because Luffy is going to run into her first (like Crocodile)
When Shanks decended on the battlefield his crewmate Ben Beckman held Kizaru at gun point and he didn't dare move.
I don't know, is bombing Marineford with death lasers considered "moving"?
!
Cause that's what happened 3 pages later…
I don't know, is bombing Marineford with death lasers considered "moving"?
! http://s7.directupload.net/images/121222/2rp7q8io.jpg
Cause that's what happened 3 pages later…
Considering that he was about to kill Luffy before Ben Beckman stopped him, he'd done his job and let Luffy escape. There was no need to continue holding him at gun point
Whitebeard's actions don't speak for the other Yonkō, though… Kind of like the Shichibukai, who vary in strength.
True, but my point is that out of all of the emperors he, while still an extremely dangerous man was old, and sick. He could very well been the weakest of the four, but time will tell. This is similar to how Moriah was a creative and powerful person but he had grown to be lazy and obese due to past experiences and acquiring a title that relieved him of doing much of anything.
Oh Yeah you mean the guy who tied with the Pirate King Gold Roger?
And Shanks ,Roger's unoffical successor.
Now you can see what I was saying. Interpretation and no definite answer. This discussion is endless.
I saw people talking about power / strength and comparing Kinemon to the middle trio. Perhaps we're just seeing the formation of a new trio?
Luffy, Zoro Sanji
Jimbei, Kinemon, ?
Robin, Franky, Brook
Nami, Usopp, Chopper
Momonosuke, ?, ?
I know Oda doesn't work in such a cookie cutter way. I'm just saying we can think out of the box a little lol
My version…..
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji
Jimbei, Smoker, Kinemon
Franky, Robin, Brook
Chopper, Nami, Usopp
Momonosuke, Vivi, Karoo
:ninja:
I should say I really like the idea of both Kinemon and Momo joining. I think they work well as a pair. I really like the new color spread and I think it has strong implications along the same lines as the cover of volume 64. I don't think anyone is joining at PH, but perhaps at Wano.<
My theories about Vivi and Smoker are quite separate so probably not something to go into now. I do still view Vivi as a nakama even as she's not on the ship. I think there are two potential paths for Smoker....one as a possible Straw Hat. This theory hasn't met very warm reception, but I very much like the idea of an ex-marine on the crew.
I think the dream will be to track down Vegapunk / someone else who can help turn Momo back into a human. Kinemon's his father and would obviously want to accompany his son. I definitely see his fighting style being different enough from Zoro. Zoro uses 3 swords in a completely self-made style. Kinemon uses 1 or 2 swords using his foxfire style plus has a devil fruit.
I feel like the 693 colorspread had some pretty big implications. Oda grouped together the Straw Hats, Kinemon, Momo, and the heart pirates surrounded by the other big names. I guess you could say these are the allies just for this arc - but then G5 are seemingly missing and Bepo, Penguin, and Sacchi are a bit random. I think what this means is that Luffy's alliance with Law is not temporary - I get the feeling they will be allies until the end. Essentially Oda is starting to build Luffy's Whitebeard pirate like alliance. I get the feeling Law is being grafted in as a main character (sort of...obviously less so than the SH's themselves) along with his crew without actually joining Luffy and sailing on board the Sunny. I think it's possible Smoker and Tashigi will take a similar role in the future after leaving the marines. Basically I think Smoker could be a major permanent ally like Law or could actually join the crew.
Of course I could be reading way too much into this simple picture. For example, Jimbei being on the outside I don't think implies he won't join nor do I think Smoker's complete absence means he's neither ally nor enemy. I think with Jimbei it would just seem odd to put him with the main group while he's still off on his own. Smoker isn't there at all - much like Jimbei in the color spread with Shirahoshi. Again, this analysis is all PURE SPECULATION so please take what I'm saying here with a grain of salt. I'm just saying how I viewed it...and it's partially because I have such strong theories about where these characters will end up. I think the one thing that can really be taken away is that Law's role as an ally may extend well beyond this arc until the end of the series.
Personally I view Law as a permanent ally, Heart Pirates as permanent allies, Smoker as either a future permanent ally or future Straw Hat, Tashigi as a future permanent ally, Jimbei as a future Straw Hat, Kinemon / Momo as future straw hats, and Vivi as an honorary Straw Hat (possibly with the crew in the future as well). Time will tell of course.
My personal opinion: Smoker and Tashigi will stay Marines. Smoker hates pirates and is obsess by the idea of capturing Luffy. No reason for him to leave the marine. and Tashigi is way too idealist to leave the job. And any way I doubt Oda will ever make Sanji stronger than the smoke.Vivi like she said has a country too take care of and is weak as hell. And i can't picture her managing to get to the strawhats by herself.
Unfortuenly, I'll have to argue here.
It's been forgotten that Brook has been active and out in the world during the timeskip, he could have gotten the info during then not before. We do know that Brook became a superstar during those two years and was on tour. He could have learned of Wano during the tour. After all before his 50 yrs in isolation, he was a pirate traveling the New World. Stars on tour would need to search for countries to travel to and be perfect place to hear if they are open to strangers or is a closed country.
This is true, I hadn't thought of that! Usually when I think of interesting information gathered during timeskip my mind immediately jumps to Robin, but it is true that out of all of them Brook seems to have had the most exposure to the world. Wonder if this will actually play a role in the future …
With the way the Marines are likely going to go under Akainu's leadership I think Smoker is destined to leave the organization one way or another. I should also add I think Tashigi could easily remain without Smoker. I don't think the two necessarily need to remain a pair. Smoker telling Tashigi to find her own way / sense of justice in the past could easily foreshadow a split (not as in they become enemies, but a parting of ways) between the two as they both pursue their own paths.
To me, Koby is the idealist Marine who will eventually rival Luffy.
I think Zoro and Sanji will both easily surpass Smoker someday. Sanji is in the monster trio. He's not of a lesser caliber than Zoro. They're going to be Admiral strength someday in my opinion. Marco, Jozu, Beckman, and Lucky Roux seem to have reached this level so I no reason to think Zoro and Sanji won't as the two strongest Straw Hats (next to Luffy).
I've explained my theories about Vivi in the past. I think Reverie will be the story through which she's brought back to the Straw Hats. I think she would have to leave with the dream of protecting Alabasta. There are a number of scenarios which would necessitate such a journey. For example, my theory is that Akainu / the WG will take advantage of a sick and ailing Cobra to extend their control over Alabasta (possibly due to Pluton). Vivi may essentially be left in a position similar to Jimbei in that she cannot protect her people by staying with them. We've already seen that because he's a pirate Jimbei does more harm than good for the Fishmen by staying with them. I'm not saying this WILL happen, but it's not out of question.
We've already seen Reverie mentioned many times and even forshadowed in the decks of the world cover arc. A lot of future events are set up by the cover story arcs. Reverie was directly mentioned in the Alabasta portion of decks of the world. There's already a lot riding on this event with the Fishman story. We know that Fukaboshi regathered the signatures. I think that FI will indeed be destroyed in the battle against Big Mom by Luffy's own hands. Noah will carry them to the surface but they'll essentially need to find a new home. I could see the SH's crashing Reverie to protect Shirahoshi in some way with the knowledge that she's Poseidon being passed along by Caribou to some yet-unknown entity. From there, I think it's possible that stuff will go down with Vivi / the WG at Reverie.
Just imagine this scenario. Crocodile learned from somewhere that Pluton was rumored to reside in Alabasta. Perhaps the WG is also privy to this information and would like to pursue the weapon. We already know the WG has some interest in the ancient weapons from the Water Seven arc. They went to pretty great lengths to coerce the plans for Pluton out of Tom's hands. They may very well go after Pluton itself as it's rumored to rest somewhere in the deserts of Alabasta. Smoker and Tashigi turned a blind eye to the SH's alliance with Vivi and the monarchy of Alabasta. However, we know that Smoker reported their role in the victory over Baroque Works to the WG. This information could be detrimental in the wrong hands. If Akainu, who has no tolerance for pirates, and the WG wanted to take control over the country as Cobra is now sick, they could simply discredit the monarchy by exposing their ties to the infamous pirate Straw Hat Luffy, using the opportunity to force a form of martial law which will allow them to freely search for Pluton. In this case, Vivi would basically be branded a criminal in which case it would be perfectly natural for her to sail with the SH's with the dream of someday freeing Alabasta. In this scenario it would no longer be as simple as beating down Crocodile. Someday Luffy, the Pirate King, will eventually rise up to challenge the WG. As part of the Pirate King's crew Vivi could do the most to help save her country.
Of course this scenario is speculation, but it's something to consider. There are many ways she could easily be brought back to sail with the Straw Hats even as the princess of Alabasta. Her presence in the post war arc and her departing promise with the Straw Hats lead me to believe she has a very important role in the future.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I feel like the 693 colorspread had some pretty big implications. Oda grouped together the Straw Hats, Kinemon, Momo, and the heart pirates surrounded by the other big names. I guess you could say these are the allies just for this arc - but then G5 are seemingly missing and Bepo, Penguin, and Sacchi are a bit random. I think what this means is that Luffy's alliance with Law is not temporary - I get the feeling they will be allies until the end. Essentially Oda is starting to build Luffy's Whitebeard pirate like alliance. I get the feeling Law is being grafted in as a main character (sort of…obviously less so than the SH's themselves) along with his crew without actually joining Luffy and sailing on board the Sunny. I think it's possible Smoker and Tashigi will take a similar role in the future after leaving the marines. Basically I think Smoker could be a major permanent ally like Law or could actually join the crew.
They may not be there for the Punk Hazard Arc, but I think they will show up at some other arc of this saga. Punk HAzard is just one part of the saga. Similar to how Baroque Agents, Mr. 5 & Ms Valentine, were villians in the Little Garden arc but didn't show up afterwards for rest of the Baroque Works Saga.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I've explained my theories about Vivi in the past. I think Reverie will be the story through which she's brought back to the Straw Hats. I think she would have to leave with the dream of protecting Alabasta. There are a number of scenarios which would necessitate such a journey. For example, my theory is that Akainu / the WG will take advantage of a sick and ailing Cobra to extend their control over Alabasta (possibly due to Pluton). Vivi may essentially be left in a position similar to Jimbei in that she cannot protect her people by staying with them. We've already seen that because he's a pirate Jimbei does more harm than good for the Fishmen by staying with them. I'm not saying this WILL happen, but it's not out of question.
We've already seen Reverie mentioned many times and even forshadowed in the decks of the world cover arc. A lot of future events are set up by the cover story arcs. Reverie was directly mentioned in the Alabasta portion of decks of the world. There's already a lot riding on this event with the Fishman story. We know that Fukaboshi regathered the signatures. I think that FI will indeed be destroyed in the battle against Big Mom by Luffy's own hands. Noah will carry them to the surface but they'll essentially need to find a new home. I could see the SH's crashing Reverie to protect Shirahoshi in some way with the knowledge that she's Poseidon being passed along by Caribou to some yet-unknown entity. From there, I think it's possible that stuff will go down with Vivi / the WG at Reverie.
I don't know if Vivi will join or not, I'm not going to include arguements of her being weak…there were a lot of lesser fighters on the big crews that come close to the big shots.
I do agree that the Reverie is going to be important. You're right its been refered too many times to unimportant. Oda showed the ill Cobra for a reason, Vivi is going to have to go for him.
Speaking of Reverie, there is another character going to show up for it = King Wapol. There's a reason he was shown and it stating he's be recognized and allowed to have a new kingdom. Sure Oda's shown us his gettign popular from his toy business and his alloy getting recognition. But why show us 2 years later that he has a new kingdom in the "From the Decks from the World"? In other covers of that mini-arc, people are looking at the newspaper and news of teh Strawhats. Wapol & his wife are not. Nowhere in their cover is a newspaper in sight, and its the only chapter like that.
When the Reverie happens, well see both Vivi & Wapol.
Yes, you make some very good points! I agree with you both about the Heart Pirates and Wapol! There's already some history between Vivi and Wapol too as we saw from Dalton's flashback, so it should certainly make things interesting. Both the mentions of Reverie in the Alabasta covers and Wapol's country being recognized by the WG were part of the Decks of the World so I think the message is clear that they may both tie in to the future Reverie story. It all ties together very nicely.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
With the way the Marines are likely going to go under Akainu's leadership I think Smoker is destined to leave the organization one way or another. I should also add I think Tashigi could easily remain without Smoker. I don't think the two necessarily need to remain a pair. Smoker telling Tashigi to find her own way / sense of justice in the past could easily foreshadow a split (not as in they become enemies, but a parting of ways) between the two as they both pursue their own paths.
Smoker leaving marines isn't impossible( I would just find it stupid). But him going in a pirate crew is what I think is impossible. And him joining the crew he's been obsess to capture is what I think is ridiculous. Sorry for the Tashigi, I thought you said she would join.@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I think Zoro and Sanji will both easily surpass Smoker someday. Sanji is in the monster trio. He's not of a lesser caliber than Zoro. They're going to be Admiral strength someday in my opinion. Marco, Jozu, Beckman, and Lucky Roux seem to have reached this level so I no reason to think Zoro and Sanji won't as the two strongest Straw Hats (next to Luffy).
The question isn't what level Sanji and Zoro will achieve but rather will they ever be better than Smoker. I think the answer is a big no but you think it's possible. For me smoker will always be always be stronger than Sanji and rival Luffy except maybe at the very end.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I've explained my theories about Vivi in the past. I think Reverie will be the story through which she's brought back to the Straw Hats. I think she would have to leave with the dream of protecting Alabasta. There are a number of scenarios which would necessitate such a journey. For example, my theory is that Akainu / the WG will take advantage of a sick and ailing Cobra to extend their control over Alabasta (possibly due to Pluton). Vivi may essentially be left in a position similar to Jimbei in that she cannot protect her people by staying with them. We've already seen that because he's a pirate Jimbei does more harm than good for the Fishmen by staying with them. I'm not saying this WILL happen, but it's not out of question.
Strawhats never go back. I'm not even sure there's someone else apart from Robin who reads the newspaper. And Alabasta is already part of the world governement if they wanted they could just act. And Vivi isn't a pirate or hasn't done anything criminal. Everything has been covered by the government a long time ago.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
We've already seen Reverie mentioned many times and even forshadowed in the decks of the world cover arc. A lot of future events are set up by the cover story arcs. Reverie was directly mentioned in the Alabasta portion of decks of the world. There's already a lot riding on this event with the Fishman story. We know that Fukaboshi regathered the signatures. I think that FI will indeed be destroyed in the battle against Big Mom by Luffy's own hands. Noah will carry them to the surface but they'll essentially need to find a new home. I could see the SH's crashing Reverie to protect Shirahoshi in some way with the knowledge that she's Poseidon being passed along by Caribou to some yet-unknown entity. From there, I think it's possible that stuff will go down with Vivi / the WG at Reverie.
Except for Robin nobody is suppose to know this story. And I really don't see how Luffy will get such an important info on some unknow people ( They even know the name of the swamp dude).
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Just imagine this scenario. Crocodile learned from somewhere that Pluton was rumored to reside in Alabasta. Perhaps the WG is also privy to this information and would like to pursue the weapon. We already know the WG has some interest in the ancient weapons from the Water Seven arc. They went to pretty great lengths to coerce the plans for Pluton out of Tom's hands. They may very well go after Pluton itself as it's rumored to rest somewhere in the deserts of Alabasta. Smoker and Tashigi turned a blind eye to the SH's alliance with Vivi and the monarchy of Alabasta. However, we know that Smoker reported their role in the victory over Baroque Works to the WG. This information could be detrimental in the wrong hands. If Akainu, who has no tolerance for pirates, and the WG wanted to take control over the country as Cobra is now sick, they could simply discredit the monarchy by exposing their ties to the infamous pirate Straw Hat Luffy, using the opportunity to force a form of martial law which will allow them to freely search for Pluton. In this case, Vivi would basically be branded a criminal in which case it would be perfectly natural for her to sail with the SH's with the dream of someday freeing Alabasta. In this scenario it would no longer be as simple as beating down Crocodile. Someday Luffy, the Pirate King, will eventually rise up to challenge the WG. As part of the Pirate King's crew Vivi could do the most to help save her country.
The Water 7 thing was Spandam personal obsession.
And I still stand on her being way too weak. They didn't trained 2 years for nothing.
So here comes another idea of how we should see the future of the Straw Hats…
And I think I see a sort of patern how many we can expect probably.
Let's put a list togheter..
East Blue
Zoro - 3 Style Swordsman - Master Type
Usopp
Sanji
Nami - Girl - Ranged Attacks
Grand Line: Paradise
Chopper Robin - Women - Ranged Attacks Franky Brook - 1 style Swordsman - Speed Type So if we look at this we see a sort of pattern. The first sea gave us a women and a swordsman. Paradise brought us also a women and a swordsman.
Now we have seen that Kinemon fights with 2 swords, is the possibility to have a Samurai from the Country of Wano who just happens to use 2 swords join a crew of pirates? Where we now of that the Samurai's have no allegiance to someone and hate Pirates it seems? Well I see it possible.
But if we even look further we can maybe even find something else hidden?
East Blue
Zoro - 3 Style Swordsman - Master Type (Physical)
Usopp - Ranged Fighter
Sanji - Physical Fighter
Nami - Girl - Ranged Attacks
Grand Line: Paradise
Chopper - Physical Fighter Robin - Women - Ranged Attacks Franky - Ranged Fighter
Brook - 1 style Swordsman - Speed Type (Physical)
It's just something I happend to stumble upon. It is probably just nothing what I saw and maybe we can predict what Oda does. Maybe it's just a coincidence..
Another thing is that the two women of the ship both had some sort of disagreement with the Government. Nami with Nizumi who was just a small part of the WG then we got Robin who was targeted by the World Government so maybe we have the next women who has something much bigger than Robin who joins. If I have to put my money on that? Yeah you probably would hate me for even thinking it but this would be my list for the future what we could see…
Grand Line: New World Jinbe - Physcial
Kinemon - 2 Style Swordsman - Power Style (Physical)
Bonney - Women - Ranged Attacks
Cabin Boy - Ranged Attacks.
And if I have to take the whole conclusion I think the Cabin Boy will be the last member of the crew, will be a young boy who will be the apprentice of Luffy which takes the hat after him and has the fruit of Ace. n.n;
Probably more of a fanfic idea of mine, it just an idea. We dont have any proof and the story will tell what happens, I just wanted to share this with some people and see what they think about it. Just some gibberish or do you think that I have sort of a point in it?
Posted this at the start of Punk Hazard. And I am still rooting for it. Tho, Kinemon or Momo, both or non . Dunno, it all seems plausible at this moment ^^
Strawhats never go back. I'm not even sure there's someone else apart from Robin who reads the newspaper. And Alabasta is already part of the world governement if they wanted they could just act. And Vivi isn't a pirate or hasn't done anything criminal.
She traveled with the Strawhats and claims them as friends. If Marines had proof they could charge her as an accomplice to Pirates. IF they find out the Royal Family sheltered the Strawhats, they could be charged with aiding and abetting piracy.
Here is the pages that supports that in ch 216
Thake note that Nami said they can't let the Marines hear them answer Vivi and if they say they are friends, the Marines would mark Vivi as a criminal.
[HIDE]![](http://arc.batoto.net/comics/2011/05/03/o/read4dc082ee6d3f7/One Piece - 216 - 16.jpg)![](http://arc.batoto.net/comics/2011/05/03/o/read4dc082ee6d3f7/One Piece - 216 - 17.jpg) [/HIDE]
Everything has been covered by the government a long time ago.
Thigns with Vivi
wasn't really covered up, they didn't get any confirmation so it was dropped. But with absoulute justice being in control, like Akainu, if they got confirmation of Vivi's friendship with the Strwahats esp Luffy after all he's done, the uptight ones would slap charges on her fast.
The friends of the Strawhats that some Marines knew of was the former Franky Family in Water 7, and that was Aokiji that was behind covering up their part. Unlike with the mariens hearing Vivi asking if the SHs would call her friend, it was shown that the franky family's involvement was indeed covered up.
[HIDE] [/HIDE]
I'm just gonna add something in here cause' it's been on my mind for a while and have just been waiting for it to be brought up..
Thigns with Vivi wasn't really covered up, they didn't get any confirmation so it was dropped. But with absoulute justice being in control, like Akainu, if they got confirmation of Vivi's friendship with the Strwahats esp Luffy after all he's done, the uptight ones would slap charges on her fast.
I can't recall when the last Reverie was stated to be but since reading the end of that arc it got me thinking about what the marines reported to HQ after seeing Vivi calling the Straw Hats friends (even if she was ignored), someone had to have mentioned it.. I thought maybe it was ignored for the time being and it would be brought up at the Reverie/she'd be questioned about it..
The Straw Hats weren't that big of a threat back then, and maybe the higher-ups didn't want to cause more trouble to a country recovering from a civil war/Shichubukai take over attempt..But, now that Sakazuki is in charge and knowing how much he has it in for Luffy, they could just be sitting on the information until the right time..
It may add up to nothing/just be nonsense..
So here comes another idea of how we should see the future of the Straw Hats…
And I think I see a sort of patern how many we can expect probably.
Let's put a list togheter..
East Blue
Zoro - 3 Style Swordsman - Master Type
Usopp
Sanji
Nami - Girl - Ranged AttacksGrand Line: Paradise
Chopper Robin - Women - Ranged Attacks Franky Brook - 1 style Swordsman - Speed Type So if we look at this we see a sort of pattern. The first sea gave us a women and a swordsman. Paradise brought us also a women and a swordsman.
Now we have seen that Kinemon fights with 2 swords, is the possibility to have a Samurai from the Country of Wano who just happens to use 2 swords join a crew of pirates? Where we now of that the Samurai's have no allegiance to someone and hate Pirates it seems? Well I see it possible.But if we even look further we can maybe even find something else hidden?
East Blue
Zoro - 3 Style Swordsman - Master Type (Physical)
Usopp - Ranged Fighter
Sanji - Physical Fighter
Nami - Girl - Ranged AttacksGrand Line: Paradise
Chopper - Physical Fighter Robin - Women - Ranged Attacks Franky - Ranged Fighter
Brook - 1 style Swordsman - Speed Type (Physical)
It's just something I happend to stumble upon. It is probably just nothing what I saw and maybe we can predict what Oda does. Maybe it's just a coincidence..
Another thing is that the two women of the ship both had some sort of disagreement with the Government. Nami with Nizumi who was just a small part of the WG then we got Robin who was targeted by the World Government so maybe we have the next women who has something much bigger than Robin who joins. If I have to put my money on that? Yeah you probably would hate me for even thinking it but this would be my list for the future what we could see…Grand Line: New World Jinbe - Physcial
Kinemon - 2 Style Swordsman - Power Style (Physical)
Bonney - Women - Ranged Attacks
Cabin Boy - Ranged Attacks.And if I have to take the whole conclusion I think the Cabin Boy will be the last member of the crew, will be a young boy who will be the apprentice of Luffy which takes the hat after him and has the fruit of Ace. n.n;
Probably more of a fanfic idea of mine, it just an idea. We dont have any proof and the story will tell what happens, I just wanted to share this with some people and see what they think about it. Just some gibberish or do you think that I have sort of a point in it?
Posted this at the start of Punk Hazard. And I am still rooting for it. Tho, Kinemon or Momo, both or non . Dunno, it all seems plausible at this moment ^^
This boy might actually be the one who gets the hat
@nodensuke:
It bet his name's Roger..:happy:
That would be excellent. Full circle. Who knows Luffy may be partying in a that same bar with the crew and some young boy/girl who idolizes him might eat a certain logia devil fruit. Only time will tell.
She traveled with the Strawhats and claims them as friends. If Marines had proof they could charge her as an accomplice to Pirates. IF they find out the Royal Family sheltered the Strawhats, they could be charged with aiding and abetting piracy.
Here is the pages that supports that in ch 216
Thake note that Nami said they can't let the Marines hear them answer Vivi and if they say they are friends, the Marines would mark Vivi as a criminal.
Iceburg take care of pirate ship but isn't label as a criminal for that. I really think such a sentence as"We're friend" don't mean much. It's like garp having a crazy family. And Vivi can be consider a criminal only if they recognize she was involve with the strawhats in some. the whole Alabasta mess was covered up so such thing doesn't exist.
For me
smoker joining is impossible.
Vivi joining is unlikely because I don't see strawhat coming back to take her and she's weak. back story will probably get a goo explanation. I won't like it but it will be good.
Iceburg take care of pirate ship but isn't label as a criminal for that. I really think such a sentence as"We're friend" don't mean much. It's like garp having a crazy family. And Vivi can be consider a criminal only if they recognize she was involve with the strawhats in some. the whole Alabasta mess was covered up so such thing doesn't exist.
For me
smoker joining is impossible.
Vivi joining is unlikely because I don't see strawhat coming back to take her and she's weak. back story will probably get a goo explanation. I won't like it but it will be good.
Aokiji covered everything it up. And, they don't know Iceberg or the Galley La helped build the ship. Franky built it for all they know..
Galley La company take care of every ship who ask them including pirate.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I think there are two potential paths for Smoker….one as a possible Straw Hat. This theory hasn't met very warm reception, but I very much like the idea of an ex-marine on the crew.
i already gave my expected scenarios (2 of it) as well for smoker (and tashigi) to join, im keeping quiet and see how it turns out…..i dont see kinemon or momo joining though.
its either smoker joins straightly as a strawhat when he leave the marines, or either he will be a revolutionary and will be pushed to be a strawhat (by dragon) to join the strawhats as the final member...thats my wild guess.
here's my given scenarios, i dont want to argue with anyone, just like to share it with vongola.
! http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=36340&page=60&p=2742902&viewfull=1#post2742902
! its a better way imo than to explain over and over again. plus we dont need to argue.
! im thinking of 2 scenarios:
storyline #1
! 1. smoker gets left behind in either punk hazard or dress rosa.(presumed dead)
2. tashigi travels with the strawhats.(gets a new sword/technique in wano)
3. gorousei disappointed that the experiment was botched, ordered the assasination/capture of tashigi and smoker and were immediately fired from their positions.
4. tashigi will be captured and will be rescued by the strawhat crew (big battle like with nami and robin)
! TASHIGI JOINS
! 5. many arcs later, the strawhats will encounter the ship of the revolutionaries and smoker is on-board, maybe they will head to baltigo or something after that but what im pointing at is, smoker will join the strawhats as representative of the revolutionary army.
! SMOKER JOINS
! storyline # 2
! 1. strawhats and smoker (and law) will head to dress rosa to defeat doflamingo
2. tashigi and G5 brings the kids back to their hometowns.
3. smoker will fight luffy and loses, luffy invites him to the crew.
4. gorousei disappointed that the experiment was botched, ordered the assasination/capture of tashigi and smoker and were immediately fired from their positions.
5. smoker still with the strawhats, learned of their dismissal and tashigi's capture.
! SMOKER JOINS
! 6. tashigi will be rescued by the strawhat crew and smoker (big battle like with nami and robin)
! TASHIGI JOINS
I had this thought that the SHs would end up being Luffy + 16 people to show just how strong Luffy and co. are because while the previous strongest man in the world, whitebeard, needed 16 divisions Luffy the probable next strongest man in the world only needed 16 people. What do you think?
@KaW~KaW:
I had this thought that the SHs would end up being Luffy + 16 people to show just how strong Luffy and co. are because while the previous strongest man in the world, whitebeard, needed 16 divisions Luffy the probable next strongest man in the world only needed 16 people. What do you think?
16 crew members is just too overwhelming. Oda's already having a lot on his hand trying to give screen time to just 9 crew members