@NER:
RIP No Maam. You will be missed.
I swear to God you are one step away from dropping off my Christmass card list >:P
@NER:
RIP No Maam. You will be missed.
I swear to God you are one step away from dropping off my Christmass card list >:P
I've heard the differences between Sunni and Shia are even smaller than the differences between Catholics and Protestants, not sure about between Catholics and Orthodox though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@No:
I swear to God you are one step away from dropping off my Christmass card list >:P
I don't think he celebrates Christmas lol.
@Monkey:
I've heard the differences between Sunni and Shia are even smaller than the differences between Catholics and Protestants, not sure about between Catholics and Orthodox though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don't think he celebrates Christmas lol.
I'm aware of that :ninja:
But that won't stop me from sending him a Christmass card :P
There are a lot of Muslims around New Haven for some reason. Of all stripes.
From devout to the "eh it's more my cultural background then my religion" thing that describes p much 75% of the local catholics and jews lol.
But there lots.
wat with certain cities and specific immigrant concentrations
Danbury has a bunch of Maronite Lebanese Arabs, Stamford used to be the Italian hub (lots of people sharing my last name there that must be very distant relation), and New Britain even has a distinct local accent based off Polish.
@Monkey:
I've heard the differences between Sunni and Shia are even smaller than the differences between Catholics and Protestants, not sure about between Catholics and Orthodox though.
Nah, I doubt it, the differences between Shia and Sunni are huge, man. HUGE.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@No:
But that won't stop me from sending him a Christmass card :P
You better DO send me a card. or else. <3
@Monkey:
I've heard the differences between Sunni and Shia are even smaller than the differences between Catholics and Protestants, not sure about between Catholics and Orthodox though.
Yes, that's true. There is very little (if any) theological differences, most of the difference is political. Stemming from that, there are some differences in practice. For instance, Shias do not set much value to Abu Bakr's and Umar ibn Khattab's hadiths.
This is not true about the various Christian denominations, they can differ a lot with regards to interpreting the Bible. Apart from the Anglican Church, is there any one that arose because of a political dispute?
@Monkey:
I don't think he celebrates Christmas lol.
I would be surprised if No Maam did. Isn't Czech Republic supposed to be one of the most irreligious countries?
Yes, that's true. There is very little (if any) theological differences, most of the difference is political. Stemming from that, there are some differences in practice. For instance, Shias do not set much value to Abu Bakr's and Umar ibn Khattab's hadiths.
Its not just that, man, there's much more to it.
@NER:
Nah, I doubt it, the differences between Shia and Sunni are huge, man. HUGE.
They're pretty massive between Catholics/Orthodox and the Protestants though. Not going into individual Protestant sects that get really out there either, cuz some of them are pretty out there.
I'll definitely give you the Catholic/Orthodox difference though, it's always seemed less about doctrine than about social geography, like a religious manifestation of tension between Western and Eastern Europe.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Apart from the Anglican Church, is there any one that arose because of a political dispute?
And ironically or not surprisingly, the Angelican Church is basically Catholic in so many ways.
@NER:
Its not just that, man, there's much more to it.
Ah, more learning opportunities. :-)
Is there a lot of theological difference? I know that Shias hold a lot of respect and reverence for their Imams. For them, their Imams derive their authority from God. The Sunnis do not believe that. Their clerics are just people who have mastered the religious texts. And there is the issue about selective reading of Hadiths that I referred to earlier. Is there anything else?
There is also the question of self-identification. Most of the Muslims I've met like to project themselves as Muslims, and only tell me if they're Shia or Sunni upon further questioning. In my country, it is very difficult to count the number of Shias and Sunnis because of this issue. Contrast this with Christianity, where the various denominations pose almost as separate religions.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Monkey:
And ironically or not surprisingly, the Angelican Church is basically Catholic in so many ways.
Ahahaha. I'm sure the Irish would love to hear this.
Ahahaha. I'm sure the Irish would love to hear this.
I'm sure deep religious objection is what characterizes Irish/EnglishProtestant conflict and not everything else that actually characterizes it.
@Monkey:
I'm sure deep religious objection is what characterizes Irish/EnglishProtestant conflict and not everything else that actually characterizes it.
I'm not contesting the fact that it's a political dispute, man. Totally agree with your statement about the Anglican church being basically Catholic. Just noting the ironic hilarity of your statement in the context of the sectarian violence there.
Ah, more learning opportunities. :-)
Is there a lot of theological difference? I know that Shias hold a lot of respect and reverence for their Imams. For them, their Imams derive their authority from God. The Sunnis do not believe that. Their clerics are just people who have mastered the religious texts. And there is the issue about selective reading of Hadiths that I referred to earlier. Is there anything else?
There is also the question of self-identification. Most of the Muslims I've met like to project themselves as Muslims, and only tell me if they're Shia or Sunni upon further questioning. In my country, it is very difficult to count the number of Shias and Sunnis because of this issue. Contrast this with Christianity, where the various denominations pose almost as separate religions.
! Well, you just mentioned most of the thing, but it goes a little bit further.
One of the main points of Islam to us is that no one should be prayed to other than God only. but they do pray for Ali, his sons, and many of their clerics, dead or alive. its the one most important thing. any act of worshipping should not be intented towards God, but they do. thats the main thing, but they also do pretty much everything differently than us. (I am serious, whatever it is that we do and believe in, they think and do something entierly different) to the point where most people never really seem to be convinced that these two are anything but completely seperate religions now.
! About the self-identification issue, I am not so sure about that. there's only one part of SA where Shia live. and I've never been there, so I don't really know..
@NER:
! Well, you just mentioned most of the thing, but it goes a little bit further.
One of the main points of Islam to us is that no one should be prayed to other than God only. but they do pray for Ali, his sons, and many of their clerics, dead or alive. its the one most important thing. any act of worshipping should not be intented towards God, but they do. thats the main thing, but they also do pretty much everything differently than us. (I am serious, whatever it is that we do and believe in, they think and do something entierly different) to the point where most people never really seem to be convinced that these two are anything but completely seperate religions now.
! About the self-identification issue, I am not so sure about that. there's only one part of SA where Shia live. and I've never been there, so I don't really know..
! Well, isn't there a semantic difference that you're missing? If I understand correctly, the Shias still pray to the one God Islam believes in. What they do is bless Ali, his family and their Imams in their prayers to God. For instance in their Shahada, after proclaiming the oneness of God and the fact that Muhammad is his messenger, they add a line that Ali is the 'Wali' (friend? custodian?) of God. This does not mean that they pray to anyone other than God. If I ask God to bless my dead grandpa, I'm not praying to my dead grandpa.
! So there is a difference of practice. I see. I confess that I didn't see it much in my time in India, but then maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.
! Well, isn't there a semantic difference that you're missing? If I understand correctly, the Shias still pray to the one God Islam believes in. What they do is bless Ali, his family and their Imams in their prayers to God. For instance in their Shahada, after proclaiming the oneness of God and the fact that Muhammad is his messenger, they add a line that Ali is the 'Wali' (friend? custodian?) of God. This does not mean that they pray to anyone other than God. If I ask God to bless my dead grandpa, I'm not praying to my dead grandpa.
! So there is a difference of practice. I see. I confess that I didn't see it much in my time in India, but then maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.
! Nah, man, I meant what I said. When I told you that they pray for Ali I meant nothing other than that they do pray for Ali, and they do. Its not really up for debate or anything. If you have any Shia friends that you can ask about that than do, their answer wouldn't be all that different from mine, that much I am sure of. :P
Today, I didn't get much done, but wasn't too bad. Though I loaned my dad some money to buy subs for dinner at the place my sister works (not Subway, it's a place called DiBella's that has quality food), and I went out to pick up some office supplies. He ended up eating my part of the dinner, so there was nothing left when I came home. Sort of angry about that; that was my money, and my troublesome yet beloved twin sister made those subs…
Today, I didn't get much done, but wasn't too bad. Though I loaned my dad some money to buy subs for dinner at the place my sister works (not Subway, it's a place called DiBella's that has quality food), and I went out to pick up some office supplies. He ended up eating my part of the dinner, so there was nothing left when I came home. Sort of angry about that; that was my money, and my troublesome yet beloved twin sister made those subs…
I hate when parents do that :O
@NER:
! Nah, man, I meant what I said. When I told you that they pray for Ali I meant nothing other than that they do pray for Ali, and they do. Its not really up for debate or anything. If you have any Shia friends that you can ask about that than do, their answer wouldn't be all that different from mine, that much I am sure of. :P
! Haha, I'm sure they do pray for Ali. My point was simply this: praying for Ali does not go against Islam, at least none of the tenets I know of (that last phrase is key here, I'm pretty sure your knowledge of Islam far eclipses mine). Praying to Ali would be bad though.
So really, from a Sunni point of view, there is no harm in praying for Ali, at least from a theological point of view. Is there?
! Haha, I'm sure they do pray for Ali. My point was simply this: praying for Ali does not go against Islam, at least none of the tenets I know of (that last phrase is key here, I'm pretty sure your knowledge of Islam far eclipses mine). Praying to Ali would be bad though.
So really, from a Sunni point of view, there is no harm in praying for Ali, at least from a theological point of view. Is there?
! Oh, SHIT. I made a mistake. to and for, I am a failure. -.-
Yeah, what I meant is, they pray TO Ali as they pray to Allah. thats the thing.
! Nope, in that, there's no harm, not at all. the other way around, actually.
Apart from the Anglican Church, is there any one that arose because of a political dispute?
Even there, political dispute only really facilitated that, in as much as it meant the king wanted it. He himself was still kinda Catholic in his heart, but there were a lot of people in England, including politically important people, who had some degree of opposition to the Catholic Church for theological reasons.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@NER:
! Oh, SHIT. I made a mistake. to and for, I am a failure. -.-
Yeah, what I meant is, they pray TO Ali as they pray to Allah. thats the thing.
! Nope, in that, there's no harm, not at all. the other way around, actually.
I was under the impression it was more like praying through the Imams to God, kind of like like how some Christians venerate saints, right? Although I don't know much about it … but I did not think there were such great differences between Sunni and Shia ...
This also made me realise I've never actually met a practising Shia.
@NER:
Well, you just mentioned most of the thing, but it goes a little bit further.
One of the main points of Islam to us is that no one should be prayed to other than God only. but they do pray for Ali, his sons, and many of their clerics, dead or alive. its the one most important thing. any act of worshipping should not be intented towards God, but they do.
Interesting, that's a big sticking point between most Protestants and Catholic/Orthodox too.
Catholics/Orthodox do lots of veneration and focus on saints, Mary, apostles etc.
But lots of Protestants think in the same way as Sunnis, that 100% attention should be on god.
I almost wish there was a little more bling in the protestant churches
Bare one color walls, a wooden crucifix, hard wooden pews, maybe a little speaker chair
It's like the soviet union style of decorating
@wolfwoof:
I almost wish there was a little more bling in the protestant churches
Bare one color walls, a wooden crucifix, hard wooden pews, maybe a little speaker chair
It's like the soviet union style of decorating
Catholics/Orthodox:
Protestants:
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
This needs reposting (very American version of them though lol)
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/lbvcm1/simpsons-protestant-vs–catholic-he
Subtract the Mexicans and you have the same divide between my mom and dad's families lol.
The WASPs are soooo accurate. "Poppy" lol.
So I render up being a half hour late to work.
Thanks a lot Obama~
@Monkey:
I've heard the differences between Sunni and Shia are even smaller than the differences between Catholics and Protestants, not sure about between Catholics and Orthodox though.
we don't have pope.
and fuckin calendar, not only different but stupid too… celebrating new year on 1st january and christmas on 7th jan.
@Monkey:
And ironically or not surprisingly, the Angelican Church is basically Catholic in so many ways.
after watching hellsing i got interested in it, and searched information about it and i was like: oh god why..
btw isn't it more political thing?
@Monkey:
Interesting, that's a big sticking point between most Protestants and Catholic/Orthodox too.
Catholics/Orthodox do lots of veneration and focus on saints, Mary, apostles etc.
But lots of Protestants think in the same way as Sunnis, that 100% attention should be on god.
seriously. sometimes i think people forget about existence of god, cause they pray too much to saints, like they are gods..
@mary:
seriously. sometimes i think people forget about existence of god, cause they pray too much to saints, like they are gods..
I don't think this is accurate.
The general Catholic sentiment re praying to saints and such is that it's just veneration, not straight up worship. My question would be why does God choose some people to get visions and shit and not others. Spreading the faith would be pretty easy if God weren't so damn picky
I don't think this is accurate.
orthodoxs in my country seriously are like that..
little bit exaggeration maybe, but still.
I'm on the bus back home now. Thank you Erik for an awesome weekend. :)
;)
@mary:
orthodoxs in my country seriously are like that..
little bit exaggeration maybe, but still.
But they're not exhibiting the worship of saints but a expression of worshiping God through the saint by venerating him/her. They are quite separate demonstrations of faith. NO Catholic is going to flat out state they are worshiping a saint. It's clear that God is the top of the totem pole and no one is going to deny that either. Worship =/= veneration. They have overlaps but the motivations are COMPLETELY different.
But they're not exhibiting the worship of saints but a expression of worshiping God through the saint by venerating him/her. They are quite separate demonstrations of faith. NO Catholic is going to flat out state they are worshiping a saint. It's clear that God is the top of the totem pole and no one is going to deny that either. Worship =/= veneration. They have overlaps but the motivations are COMPLETELY different.
i was visiting the grave of one of the saints. and people said that he helped lot of people, so we should've prayed to him, near his grave. they said that he himself has helped.
i know what's the original meaning of saint, but that doesn't mean everyone sees it like that…
and i don't know much about Catholics..
@mary:
i was visiting the grave of one of the saints. and people said that he helped lot of people, so we should've prayed to him, near his grave. they said that he himself has helped.
i know what's the original meaning of saint, but that doesn't mean everyone sees it like that…and i don't know much about Catholics..
Hm praying is a rather interesting terminology since it IMPLIES worship but it doesn't always mean worship. In all cases, praying is interpreted merely as communication with a saint rather than explicitly suggesting worshiping of a saint. Um…so, out of sheer curiosity, what is your notion on the meaning of saint? If you don't know much about Catholics, I'm really curious on what you think a saint means.
@mary:
i was visiting the grave of one of the saints. and people said that he helped lot of people, so we should've prayed to him, near his grave. they said that he himself has helped.
Uhhh yeah you're explicitly not supposed to do that. Moses was punished for that shit.
But like you say, it may just be that they're venerating him, and of course they kow that Jehovah was working through him.
Hm praying is a rather interesting terminology since it IMPLIES worship but it doesn't always mean worship. In all cases, praying is interpreted merely as communication with a saint rather than explicitly suggesting worshiping of a saint. Um…so, out of sheer curiosity, what is your notion on the meaning of saint? If you don't know much about Catholics, I'm really curious on what you think a saint means.
here, we have lot of saints.
and they are, who help people to communicate with god.
but all i'm saying is not everyone sees it like that.
and it was more like ask him to help you, and he will do it, cause he has helped lot of people before. i suck at explaining.
by the way, why do we even need to pray to someone like that, if we are all equal to god, and god listens the same way to everyone?
@mary:
here, we have lot of saints.
and they are, who help people to communicate with god.but all i'm saying is not everyone sees it like that.
and it was more like ask him to help you, and he will do it, cause he has helped lot of people before. i suck at explaining.by the way, why do we even need to pray to someone like that, if we are all equal to god, and god listens the same way to everyone?
It's not that he WILL do it, just that the odds of it happening are probably higher by having an avatar communicate to God because clearly God likes some people better than others. And naturally saints are higher on the totem pole than normal schmoes. Hence, it's like asking someone closer to God for a favor because it (I GUESS) improves the likelihood of it occurring.
If you're familiar with biblical literature, it is clear that God plays favorites…ALL THE TIME.
It's not that he WILL do it, just that the odds of it happening are probably higher by having an avatar communicate to God because clearly God likes some people better than others. And naturally saints are higher on the totem pole than normal schmoes. Hence, it's like asking someone closer to God for a favor because it (I GUESS) improves the likelihood of it occurring.
everyone is equal to god…
am i wrong?
it's my belief however..
and i don't consider myself as knowledgeable one in religion.
@mary:
everyone is equal to god…
am i wrong?
it's my belief however..and i don't consider myself as knowledgeable one in religion.
This statement is somewhat correct. For biblical literature did indicate a few times that God sees people having equal value (the same way one would appreciate the fact they created something) and appreciating them in such a way, but that doesn't negate the fact that God shows favoritism to others (for whatever reason). This doesn't mean he doesn't LIKE you, it just means that he finds one more favorable than another person or entity or whatever.
Hey Abraham, I'm going to randomly pick you to father my chosen people and be showered with blessings! Isn't that nice~
Hey Abraham, I'm going to randomly pick you to father my chosen people and be showered with blessings! Isn't that nice~
AND THEN he had this guy's descents enslaved by Egypatins, and then had them wander around a desert for about 4 decades until most of them died, had them screwed over by a handful of terrible kings and a partition, and then owned by several bunch of ethnic groups ranging from Babylonians, Romans, and even the Germans.
God is a goofy guy.
AND THEN he had this guy's descents enslaved by Egypatins, and then had them wander around a desert for about 4 decades until most of them died, had them screwed over by a handful of terrible kings and a partition, and then owned by several bunch of ethnic groups ranging from Babylonians, Romans, and even the Germans.
God is a goofy guy.
I bet they really would rather have had God choose some other people.
I bet they really would rather have had God choose some other people.
I was always convinced that God was a big upholder of the notion that "Love HURTS".
Hmm mayhaps heaven isn't full of clouds and fat baby angels, but a bunch of leather and whips.
!
I was always convinced that God was a big upholder of the notion that "Love HURTS".
Hmm mayhaps heaven isn't full of clouds and fat baby angels, but a bunch of leather and whips.! http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID24948/images/Crucifiction_of_Jesus.jpg
Sounds like Soul Society
Hey Abraham, I'm going to randomly pick you to father my chosen people and be showered with blessings! Isn't that nice~
Isn't the official story that god in all his greatness came to all the peoples of the world, but the Jewish people were the only ones who accepted and worshipped him, and that's why they are the chosen people
I had one of those days were everthing goes wrong, went late for work i thought i had lose the cellphone to name a few things.
I'm like Garfield today.
I'm on the bus back home now. Thank you Erik for an awesome weekend. :)
;)
I'm glad you had a good time :P
I'm like Garfield today.
You're fat, unfunny, and should have been terminated years ago? :ninja:
I'm glad you had a good time :P
You're fat, unfunny, and should have been terminated years ago? :ninja:
No it's just i hate this particular monday, that's all.:ninja:
LOL..I was so tired friday that I forgot to tell about my "date".
Well, we meet at the local park, we ate and chat about things we like and mostly what we don´t like hahahahaha. After that we walked through the park to take pictures (she's also a photographer) in the end we chat some more and we ate a ice cream cone.
She said that she loves animes openings and endings, so she went to a japanease class and then a singing class. So she could sing her favorites musics anytime. I´m impressed…...
She seems a nice girl, she said that she likes me. And in the next time, she´s going to call me for a date.
@mary:
we don't have pope.
and fuckin calendar, not only different but stupid too… celebrating new year on 1st january and christmas on 7th jan.
That's only some Orthodox, the Greeks have the western calendar.
Had an absolutely wonderful weekend away, which was exactly what I needed. No needing to deal with a totally unsympathetic Job Centre, and leaving the funeral planning to sort itself out for a bit (I'd done a lot beforehand to make sure I could take some time off from it). A bunch of 12 close friends and I travelled to remote North Wales to a mountain valley so beautifully autumnal that it might even make Zephos surprised, and without the pressure and distraction of the net, acted out the whole of Firefly and Serenity together.
Readthroughs tend to be powerful experiences because you end up going through what your character goes through, and if you're doing something like a whole series rather than a play, that's even more the case. It's a bonding experience for everyone, especially those who have the main, recurring roles. I was…River Tam. And so it was perhaps even more intense, given her character and character arc. Won't say what it is here but as soon as Serenity finished, I collapsed in a puddle of tears fpr almost half an hour from the sheer emotion of it all. A big factor is that, with some clear and obvious big exceptions, a lot of me playing River wasn't so much acting as dropping my usual act. We're actually not that dissimilar, and to drive that point home, I was congratulated for staying in character at several points where I was just being myself! I think it's masked sometimes by me trying to be reserved.
And now I'm back after travelling most of the day, and I have to write messages to the Job Centre, do lots of job applications so that they don't cut my benefits, write a poem that I've been asked to create for the funeral on Thursday, and edit another piece I'm reading at an entirely unrelated memorial service on Wednesday. None of it is especially happy, but at least I've had the kind of weekend that will make me smile for many years to come.
Hung out with Holy Hell irl today.
I'm on the bus back home now. Thank you Erik for an awesome weekend. :))
Oh hey, it's Arlong Park In Real Life! Glad that people get to do this though. We do tend to be different offline to how we are online, especially in a public space like this forum.
She seems a nice girl, she said that she likes me. And in the next time, she´s going to call me for a date.
Glad it went well, Ugly! Good luck for the next :)
@Monkey:
Interesting, that's a big sticking point between most Protestants and Catholic/Orthodox too.
Catholics/Orthodox do lots of veneration and focus on saints, Mary, apostles etc.
But lots of Protestants think in the same way as Sunnis, that 100% attention should be on god.
Parallels. PARALLELS.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
HEY, when is it my turn to meet someone from AP in real life?
How does this work.. HOW IS IT EVEN FAIR D; Damn you all!
@NER:
HEY, when is it my turn to meet someone from AP in real life?
How does this work.. HOW IS IT EVEN FAIR D; Damn you all!
If my memory serves me correctly, I did say something about flight tickets at some point.
But I have no money to actually pull something like that off… ;_;