My four hour ragu seems to have turned out quite nice.
An Italian base of soffritto, white wine and pureed tomatoes, with the terrible foreign, newfangled, bastardization of mango chutney, thyme, garlic and cream. And of course leaving it in the fridge over night just made it that much better, but we all knew that.
I have posted a comment about places where people are unveiled every single comment I've made thus far. I have not mentioned the taliban by name in a single one of them. And I have also explained my position on this matter a hundred times, but apparently, you can learn a whole lot about your personality by listening to other people's impression of it.
Every comment regarding them has been by placing them in a false dichotomy between Afghanistan and Sweden. You've never wanted to talk about them as their own thing with their own practices and histories regarding social customs.
The word is new to me, but I think it is quite selfexplanatory.
And I get the feeling that you don't comprehend the reason it's illogical.
When did I ever say that homophobia can only be manifested through religion? Hatred of homosexuals and biases against women can definetly be hold for a myriad of reasons.
You said it right here.
But if you're going to tell me that religion plays absolutely no part in this whatsoever, then
See? Right there. That's your line.
you are so full of shit it's essentially bursting out of your ears.
Are you one of those clueless new age hippie types who thinks before the great darkness of monotheism crept in that mankind was running around free of prejudice?
Or do you at least extend that toward the pagan religions as well. And think before THOSE things were dandy doo.
Also lol, East Asia's social cues are all Confucian. Which is not a religion. It's a philosophy. So um….
It's almost like every single moral or belief system from day one to now and beyond is colored by the society it springs from and nests in rather than the other way around or something???
Religion gives an extremely strong rationale for hating homosexuals and treating women like absolute crap.
Much like machismo/patriarchy or whatever you want to call it, though you can have socieities perfectly fine with homosexuality but still misogynist, Ancient Greece for instance. I wonder if people were sexist before the religions or only after them. Hmm. Truly a question for the ages.
The difference between religion and for instance political ideologies or just other forms of dogmatism is that there is a strong taboo in criticizing religion.
So am I not hearing this national conversation in my country right now regarding Christians talking with Christians about what
Or the entire matter of the current pope and his constituients?
Also what the fuck are you talking about. No taboo regarding political idealogies?? Really? So extreme examples for religion are ok, but politics? You can't think of examples now and in recent history where there were taboos regarding secular political idealogy?
We will never find leftists defending the ideologies of nazis and try to ask us to see that ''some nazis don't actually think about the purity of the aryan race and don't hate jews, just have some prejudice''.
Leftists defending Nazis sure would be strange! Rightists on the other hand will do as much! At least in your continent!
In ours they really love defending these guys.
As for the Leftists? Well gawrsh, I wonder what grouping of radical superstitious violence prone entities they frequently spend time defending and being very dogmatic about.
Do you have any idea how much apologism for nasty authoritarian states I've heard on the grounds of them being communist? Including North fucking Korea?
However, on the subject of religion, we have intelligent, western people who are non-religious who will defend iron age superstition because… I actually don't know why you feel the urge to defend people's irrationality.
Because I don't live in a sheltered arctic bubble and understand the social reality of religious people, and know the philosophical humanist manisfestations of religion actually exist.
Quite frankly how do you even deal with like opposing political parties like mentally. Every word out of your mouth has been spoken in a combative zero sum tone. Superstition? You wanna talk superstition? Your every word on religion is superstitious nonsense. You don't have a clue what real religious people are like. You're provincial as FUCK lol. Small minded to say the least. You're so angry about moderates ruining your hate boner that you lash out on them for some reason lol.
Okay, then I am going to put out the fact that women are forced to wear veils by their parents in Toronto and Malmö too.
That's really rare, at least in North America. Sorry champ. Europe might get poorer immigrants from more backwards places than Canada/US. Which goes right back to that being a product of the radical old country. Like what is this point supposed to be?
Now what? Are you going to tell me over and over and over that every last one of them are not forced, which I have not denied? All I've said is that in many, many, many MANY cases women who wear veils do it involuntarily.
The problem isn't that you don't deny it, it's that you handwave it as irrelevant and still poisonous.
And even if they do it voluntarily, they would be excluded from their community if they decided to stop.
Nope.
as long as women are forced in many, many cases and would be suffering if they would choose to unveil themselves, this is not as important.
They're two completely different issues/discussions. Where is this dumb idea coming from where to talk about one we CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE OTHER. Like you keep talking like that for some reason I can't figure out. In fact that's where you started on trouble here.
Now, just exchange this subject to ''girls from the muslim world who wear veils'' and all bets are off, we have to be sensitive towards the fact that not all women will suffer stigma ( legal or otherwise ). Is it because of religion? Is it because muslim people generally speaking are not from the west? I have absolutely no idea, the deeper point to be made here is that the time you've wasted branding me an intolerant bigot is really under the guise that religious savagery thrive.
You have delusions of relevance and grandeur lolll.
Time wasted! We could be…..uh....no really, what time are we wasting.
Want to do a quick head count? On where people here are from? Bet you they are not from those countries!
So what relevance does our discussion of law and social pressure have among eachother? Zilch.
But hey, maybe if we talk about it more, the Iranian regime will collapse! And Egyptian society will update it's gender attitudes!
Maybe Saudi Arabia will retroactively fall under the control of the Hejaz instead of the Nejd!
Or nothing. Or we live in pluralistic countries that are striving to patch together it's plural and understand the majority of what the face of those belief systems resembles in our borders. When I talk about Mormons I don't mean these guys, I mean these guys. When I talk about American Muslims I think of New Haven, not the bizarre one in a hundred story about that one fresh immigrant father doing an honor killing (which occurs among Hindus as well btw).
So you tell me who is wasting their time here? Which approach is actually confronting a local reality?
I would take the victim cloak, unfortunatly religious people have claimed it for themselves.
You ARE or WERE attemping a victim thing lol.
We have many people from other countries, in particular countries like Iraq, Iran, Chile, Yugoslavia, Thailand, Eritrea and so on. On top of this, we have many half thais, mulattoes ( of which I am a part off ). As a child I went to school with mainly immigrant kids ( had to change school though, since the black kids were bullied bullied by the arabs). When I changed school, I ended up with both immigrant ( including arabs ) and swedish kids working in harmony. Essentially all of my romantic relationship has been with non-swedish girls, out of which 2 have been from the Middle East ( Iraq and Lebanon ). So yeah, I'm not exactly the poster boy for the insecure white man. Will you change tactic now that you know I'm a minority? Will you perhaps ramp up your tolerance? Or will you stop calling me more or less ''an intolerant cracka'' and rightfully label me an uncle Tom or something like that?
Except by no definition was I going racial on you lol. You grew up in Swedish culture no? You are culturally Swedish correct? You have joined in the mainstream there, which is defined by one ethnic group of very very very very lax Protestants with a distaste for religion. This sound right?
I don't know man. According to the quran I suffer from a disease that Allah has put in me to disbelieve.
Ok so I've grasped that you think of yourself as belonging to the ubermensch of red pill having capital A Athiests. Who have studied every inch of the "enemy".
Which is why it particularly puzzles me that you don't have a nuanced view of any given religious scripture as a pieced together series of writings and hearsay that you find falliability in. The hand of humans no less.
Or maybe you do have this view of them. Which is where my amazement comes in that you think only you and your ilk (which I guess I don't count as) can have these scrutinies applied to them.
Okay, well, even if these christian sects concluded this, it did not happen because the christian doctrine is in the form it is. The bible tells us clearly that homosexuality is a sin and according to Leviticus and Exodus a killing offense. The new testament doesn't shed any interesting light on this
Boy you sure are clueless as to the relationship between the Testaments huh. Or have never heard discussion of the former examples either. This is precisely what I meant by the above btw.
So how did these christian sects you speak of come to terms with this?
How about you ask them. There are dozens if not hundreds of such people on this forum. Or google the discussions had. English results for gay marriage discussion should be explosively common at the moment due to the US, Australia, and UK all marching through the process right now. There are as many answers as people I'd say.
Could it have something to do with the fact that we for the past 300 years have tried to find different declarations of human rights, that makes the monstrous behaviour of the bible impossible to square with law and modern intuitions of what it is like to live in a fair society?
Or could it have something to do with religion constantly forever since the start being in evolution in any direction for endless reasons and never being a fixed thing even under the auspices of tyrannical theocracies. Including the scriptures themselves.
Ironically, protestantism isn't a good case in point. The regions that used to be protestant has more or less empty churches today ( Sweden, Denmark, Norway, North Germany England ) whereas catholicism has managed to prevail to a much more remarkable degree, even within countries ( Germany being catholic in the south and protestant (( now mainly atheist/secular )) in the north ). So protestantism seems to be quite fertile ground for creating more atheistic societies.
I'm sorry can you retype that with blue font and the occasional yellow stars? Because otherwise this is the most goddamned European paragraph ever ahahahaha.
Protestant areas unreligious? A strong grouds for secularism and atheism? Yeah, maybe in your landmass boyo lolllll.
christians have to argue for the legitimacy of the bible or I won't engage in that discussion. Whether they belong to some minor sect or catholicism is less important.
Muslims will at least come with some ( bad ) argument for why the quran is the perfect word of the creator of the universe.
Yes, all Muslims will do this. All of them.
It means freedom from religious rule. Which means I am allowed to believe whatever I want without being punished by the state. This is a right that entails everyone and religion must not rule the nation. However, it doesn't mean I am allowed to excercise whatever my faith entails and it doesn't mean I have to respect what everyone else believes at the level of conversation.
Good job! Now stop using it as a synonym for "Atheist". Or describing it like a giant protection net for atheists meant to control savage religious people.
How are different christian churches the least relevant? They only differ from one another on different interpretational details
Different interpretational….say! What the hell is THAT word?
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am an atheist fundamentalist
That literally doesn't mean anything.
who want nothing more than to just burn churches and rape nuns. After all, we scandinavian infidels do have a pretty nasty history of that don't we?
Oh is Norse Paganism off the hook from being a religion?
I'm more of a chocolate, bruno marshy looking guy myself, but I absolutely do not jump when I see a black guy.
Well so long as that black guy is culturally familiar to you! But YE GADS if he isn't!
I am not familiar with this word "moderate", i think what you meant to say was traitor to the cause.
That area in-betwenn extremes, is as we should all recall, a booby trapped no-mans land where you'll get pot-shotted to death.
I am not familiar with this word "moderate"
There is a wonderful, wonderful irony to this statement coming from someone with green stars.
@Monkey:
Every comment regarding them has been by placing them in a false dichotomy between Afghanistan and Sweden. You've never wanted to talk about them as their own thing with their own practices and histories regarding social customs.
I'm frankly quite sick of repeating myself on this issue.
You said it right here.
See? Right there. That's your line.
Then let's make some tafsir in this bitch:
When did I ever say that homophobia can only be manifested through religion? Hatred of homosexuals and biases against women can definetly be hold for a myriad of reasons. But if you're going to tell me that religion plays absolutely no part in this ( ''this'' refers to homophobia in general, not cases where religion is not the software being run on people's brains ) whatsoever, then
Most likely a missunderstanding. In my defense I was writing the post 3 in the morning.
Are you one of those clueless new age hippie types who thinks before the great darkness of monotheism crept in that mankind was running around free of prejudice?
Or do you at least extend that toward the pagan religions as well. And think before THOSE things were dandy doo.
Also lol, East Asia's social cues are all Confucian. Which is not a religion. It's a philosophy. So um….
No, I just happen to think we have no global concern with human sacrifices in Mayan communities today. It just so happens that islam, judaism and christianity are just as ancient, superstitious, corrosive of common sense and destructive of the possibilities of human wellbeing as any pagan religion would be. Difference is that we don't have to concern ourselves with death cults who engage in human sacrifice and cannibalism based on their belief in imaginary gods.
It's almost like every single moral or belief system from day one to now and beyond is colored by the society it springs from and nests in rather than the other way around or something???
So what happens when we get our moral and belief systems from ancient, superstitious desert people who knew absolutely nothing about anything? We can choose to have a conversation about ethics and metaphysics in a 21st century context, or we can choose to have it in a bronze age context where we have to pretend to know things we do not know.
Much like machismo/patriarchy or whatever you want to call it, though you can have socieities perfectly fine with homosexuality but still misogynist, Ancient Greece for instance. I wonder if people were sexist before the religions or only after them. Hmm. Truly a question for the ages.
One does not cancel out the other. The point is that religion still gives a very strong rationale for treating women horribly and keeping up age old, male impulses to treat women like their property. We didn't exactly get where we are today with respect to gender equality by reading a whole lot more of the corinthians.
So am I not hearing this national conversation in my country right now regarding Christians talking with Christians about what
Or the entire matter of the current pope and his constituients?
Also what the fuck are you talking about. No taboo regarding political idealogies?? Really? So extreme examples for religion are ok, but politics? You can't think of examples now and in recent history where there were taboos regarding secular political idealogy?Leftists defending Nazis sure would be strange! Rightists on the other hand will do as much! At least in your continent!
In ours they really love defending these guys.
As for the Leftists? Well gawrsh, I wonder what grouping of radical superstitious violence prone entities they frequently spend time defending and being very dogmatic about.
Do you have any idea how much apologism for nasty authoritarian states I've heard on the grounds of them being communist? Including North fucking Korea?
I don't understand the first paragraph. And this is exactly the point: leftists do not shy away from telling us what is wrong with nazism. Liberals don't shy away from telling us what is wrong with stalinism and communists will tell us what is wrong with capitalism. What you will never see is people from the same political camp excusing stupid ideas from their adversaries. Good luck seeing a prime minister even in the most secular of countries even noticing the fact that for instance homophobia is strongy linked to religion in the bulk of the cases. We would never delude ourselves into thinking that political ideologies do not drive behaviour in any way. And yet, this is exactly the ground we are standing on issues that we could just get rid off in a generation if anyone would dare to challenge religious bullshit in the public square. Do you now see the difference?
Yeah, people who tend to agree on many positions also tend to hold one another's backs, even if they differ somewhat on the details. As for communism, I think there is no clearer analogy to be made about the fact that the abrahamitic is inherently tyrannical and in the words of the great, late Christopher Hitchens ''a celestial North Korea''. You just have to look at all the similarities between the USSR, North Korea and what religion tries to propagate. Difference is, if you screw your allpowerful owner over in religion, you will be punished after you're dead ( not just with a 60 year prison sentence, for all eternity, subjected to the worst possible torture you can imagine ). North Korea is the most terrible nation in the world, but at least you can die and leave North Korea.
You're provincial as FUCK lol. Small minded to say the least. You're so angry about moderates ruining your hate boner that you lash out on them for some reason lol.
And yet, the only thing you've done whenever I've made a case is say ''well, these guys did it too''. You have not refuted anything I've mentioned. All you've said is ''not all religious people believe this'' ''it's just extremists'' ''it happens in other context''. What I've said is right. I am not making this up: religion does pose a huge liability for the collective advancement of the human race and it always has.
That's really rare, at least in North America. Sorry champ. Europe might get poorer immigrants from more backwards places than Canada/US. Which goes right back to that being a product of the radical old country. Like what is this point supposed to be?
How can you know? Like really, unless we conduct fieldresearch and 24 hour surveillance on every women in this specific diaspora, we can't be certain. What I am certain of however, is that many women who wear veils in most of the world are forced ( by state or family or community ) and even if they aren't forced: what would happen if they didn't want to dress that way anymore? Even if they do now, what would happen? That is a broad question allright, and the answer varies. But I guarantee you, that we would find cases where families would just rather instinctively sewer the ties with their children.
The problem isn't that you don't deny it, it's that you handwave it as irrelevant and still poisonous. [
Nope.
In the specific cases I spoke of goddamit, is this so fucking hard to understand?
You have delusions of relevance and grandeur lolll.
Time wasted! We could be…..uh....no really, what time are we wasting.
Want to do a quick head count? On where people here are from? Bet you they are not from those countries!
So what relevance does our discussion of law and social pressure have among eachother? Zilch.
Ahh, it's simply not the same I guess.
But hey, maybe if we talk about it more, the Iranian regime will collapse! And Egyptian society will update it's gender attitudes!
Maybe Saudi Arabia will retroactively fall under the control of the Hejaz instead of the Nejd!
Yeah, let's be sarcastic twats about it instead.
Or nothing. Or we live in pluralistic countries that are striving to patch together it's plural and understand the majority of what the face of those belief systems resembles in our borders. When I talk about Mormons I don't mean these guys, I mean these guys. When I talk about American Muslims I think of New Haven, not the bizarre one in a hundred story about that one fresh immigrant father doing an honor killing (which occurs among Hindus as well btw).
So you tell me who is wasting their time here? Which approach is actually confronting a local reality?
The approach where we call spade to spade, and describe what kind of hardware is actually operative on the brain of people who engage in this kind off despicable behaviour? How about we stop lying to ourselves about what actually drives people's emotions? How about we stop pretending like religion is just something benign and that what people actually believe doesn't matter. Sure, we can look at all these mayans who are sacrificing people on altars to their bloodgod. But I happen to live in a predominantly Mayan neighbourhood where they just offer chickens and that doesn't really concern me, so I'm just going to pretend like, whenever somebody bashes their neighbours brains in for insulting the bloodgod on Tuesday, that has nothing to do with their religion. Because most of these mayan guys are actually decent people who don't believe that cutting someone's heart out will cause rain. Does this sound absurd? Yes, but that is exactly how you reason with respect to the predominant religions today.
You ARE or WERE attemping a victim thing lol.
Well, I'm actually wondering when we will be considered a victim group. We certainly do have all of the odds against us.
Except by no definition was I going racial on you lol. You grew up in Swedish culture no? You are culturally Swedish correct? You have joined in the mainstream there, which is defined by one ethnic group of very very very very lax Protestants with a distaste for religion. This sound right?
Yes you were. You were implying that I grew up in some kind off suburbia, surrounded by blonde kids with freckles and wrinkled my nose upon seeing anyone with black hair. But well, yes I am culturally swedish. Yes, I do have a distaste for religion. The same reason I would have a certain distaste for billions of people believing in Santa Claus and being willing to kill for their beliefs. but most swedes won't complain about religion unless it is waved in our face 24/7. I happen to have a somewhat different outlook on the question.
Ok so I've grasped that you think of yourself as belonging to the ubermensch of red pill having capital A Athiests. Who have studied every inch of the "enemy".
Which is why it particularly puzzles me that you don't have a nuanced view of any given religious scripture as a pieced together series of writings and hearsay that you find falliability in. The hand of humans no less.
Or maybe you do have this view of them. Which is where my amazement comes in that you think only you and your ilk (which I guess I don't count as) can have these scrutinies applied to them.
Well unfortunatly I happen to think that as long as the bible tells us to stone our daughters on our fathers doorsteps and the quran repeating ''YOU'RE GOING TO HELL IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THIS BORING ASS BOOK IS THE RESULT OF A PERFECT BEING'' I don't see any reason to look for nuances. Anyone who is dedicated to calling himself a christian or a muslim or whatever, must give me a sound rationale for labelling himself as such, in light of the scripture that gives the foundation for his faith.
Boy you sure are clueless as to the relationship between the Testaments huh. Or have never heard discussion of the former examples either. This is precisely what I meant by the above btw.
I've heard it before: ''because Jesus came, we don't have to behave like stoneage psychopats anymore'' it just so happens that this is completely unsquarable with the central notion of an omnipotent and all-good god. It's simply impossible. So spare me the biblical lecture: if we tore out half of the bible, it just might be considered a book of moral value.
How about you ask them. There are dozens if not hundreds of such people on this forum. Or google the discussions had. English results for gay marriage discussion should be explosively common at the moment due to the US, Australia, and UK all marching through the process right now. There are as many answers as people I'd say.
I asked how these sects came to this conclusion. Because from the point of view of their scripture it is completely impossible to rationalize homosexuality in any way whatsoever.
Or could it have something to do with religion constantly forever since the start being in evolution in any direction for endless reasons and never being a fixed thing even under the auspices of tyrannical theocracies. Including the scriptures themselves.
For better or worse I guess. But the scripture remains adamant, and I'm interested in undercutting this foundation. I am not much concerned with what ''Ahmed 47 year old, suicidal kebab shop owner who has never read the quran'' thinks. The scripture mainfest the religion, even if people change and try to square religion with their every day life.
I'm sorry can you retype that with blue font and the occasional yellow stars? Because otherwise this is the most goddamned European paragraph ever ahahahaha.
Protestant areas unreligious? A strong grouds for secularism and atheism? Yeah, maybe in your landmass boyo lolllll.Yes, all Muslims will do this. All of them.
Good job! Now stop using it as a synonym for "Atheist". Or describing it like a giant protection net for atheists meant to control savage religious people.
Well what I said so obviously got over your head that I can only suggest you read the same comment again.
That literally doesn't mean anything.
It's an oxymoron that religious people tend to throw around to point out that not believing in god is no different from believing in him in terms of embracing dogma.
Oh is Norse Paganism off the hook from being a religion?
No?
Well so long as that black guy is culturally familiar to you! But YE GADS if he isn't!
Yeah, only dreadheaded gangstas with gold teeth will do. Can't have no brothas with leopard skin around their waist walking around.
Anyone who is dedicated to calling himself a christian or a muslim or whatever, must give me a sound rationale for labelling himself as such, in light of the scripture that gives the foundation for his faith.
You're a Muslim or a Christian?
You must rationalize your faith to me.
Because I am the curious…the judge?
Because I am the rational man.
Honestly, why should anyone have to explain anything about themselves to you? Legit question.
Everything's Eventual…
Working thru some stuff. Dunno how long i will be here.
Wow, you're still not finished with your raging teenager anti-religion shtick? You'd think someone would realize when they're being an asshole and stop making stupid posts that only make themselves look worse after many failed attempts of looking smart and having many people point that out. You have such an extreme black and white mentality concerning religion that you really do look like the fundamentalists you despise.
Let me try to summarize this to you: Religion is only a tool assholes use to justify their behavior, it's not what makes them assholes. Case in point: You, an atheist asshole who more than once tried to slip a desire to punish the "religious infidels" through the amazing and mature rationale of they did it first so it's ok for me to do it too.
http://www.browneyedbaker.com/2011/06/20/top-10-list-favorite-brownie-recipes/
Today I did this[hide]
[/hide]to my mother…She really enjoyed.
So...strudel or brownie ? What is the best ?
Well, I got a new dance to learn..Black Bullet from fripSide and I kinda lost my voice...
Isn't the modern perspective of science+/-pseudoscience explains all (is God) its own sort of religion? It's at least some kind of cultish mentality. Which I happily subscribe to, btw. Where's my fruit punch?
You're a Muslim or a Christian?
You must rationalize your faith to me.
Because I am the curious…the judge?
Because I am the rational man.
Honestly, why should anyone have to explain anything about themselves to you? Legit question.
If you're gonna engage in a discussion with me and rise to the defense of god, they are gonna have to justify their position. Same way I'm constantly justifying my position. I don't see the problem in expecting people to defend what they believe.
Wow, you're still not finished with your raging teenager anti-religion shtick? You'd think someone would realize when they're being an asshole and stop making stupid posts that only make themselves look worse after many failed attempts of looking smart and having many people point that out. You have such an extreme black and white mentality concerning religion that you really do look like the fundamentalists you despise.
Let me try to summarize this to you: Religion is only a tool assholes use to justify their behavior, it's not what makes them assholes. Case in point: You, an atheist asshole who more than once tried to slip a desire to punish the "religious infidels" through the amazing and mature rationale of they did it first so it's ok for me to do it too.
No, religion is not ''only a tool used by assholes'' , it is the one hardware that makes people do needlessly stupid and destructive things. It's not like extremists just claim to believe what they believe in order to manipulate people. They are also rarely psychopats or just stupid people: they happen to be just as neurologically intact as you and I are, they really do love their kids and they want to live good lives. But they are attatched to values that comes from their faith that makes them quirky. Because this is something that is constantly excused, ignored or otherwise not condemned by intelligent, secular people, they are provided cover for all the time.
My point about throwing theists into hell was of course, a play on the irony we see here: An atheist criticizes religious doctrine and that is viewed as bigotry. Christians, jews and muslims follow books that claim non-believers will go to hell and be tortured for eternity, for no other reason than not believing. This is however, not a big deal. It's not even a big deal when non-believers have been routinely slaughtered or accused off heresy throughout history. It also points to the fact that no atheists ( at least to my perception ) are after just burning churches and mosques and whatever, we are just advocating that we should talk about religion in the same honesty as we talk about anything in life. And I really don't see what could be a problem with that.
But okay, I'm not on this forum to discuss religion, so if you want to ignore this comment, that is totally cool.
No, religion is not ''only a tool used by assholes'' , it is the one hardware that makes people do needlessly stupid and destructive things. It's not like extremists just claim to believe what they believe in order to manipulate people. They are also rarely psychopats or just stupid people: they happen to be just as neurologically intact as you and I are, they really do love their kids and they want to live good lives. But they are attatched to values that comes from their faith that makes them quirky. Because this is something that is constantly excused, ignored or otherwise not condemned by intelligent, secular people, they are provided cover for all the time.
Soooo many generalizations here in this first paragraph alone, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
Soooo many generalizations here in this first paragraph alone, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
It's not a generilization: he and I speak more specifically of people who talk in religious terms to ''justify'' great evil. I pointed out that they are not meerely using religion as a tool to be cruel. I'm saying that religion is what motivates them to be cruel, in these specific cases. Would they have been cruel and bad people even if they weren't religious? I don't know maybe they would find a substitute. But in the words off Steven Weinberg: with or without religion you would have good people do good things and bad people do bad things. But to make good people do bad things, that often requires religion.
EDIT: As a sidenote, I've decided to stop responding on this specific issue about religion and veils on this thread, since I can tell alot of people want the thread to go back to it's original purpose, and I can't say I blame them. So if anyone wish to continue a discussion, then I refer you to my inbox or any other personal medium available. So if Monkey King, Outerspec,or anyone else still wish to give me a bit of their mind, you can do so in my inbox. I apologise to anyone who may have been bothered. The point was not to bother you.
I'm confused, where did the 'Post how your day was' thread go?
I'm confused, where did the 'Post how your day was' thread go?
I'm afraid it's been subsumed by the 'Post how your brownies were' thread. Sorry, Nova.
I'm confused, where did the 'Post how your day was' thread go?
Mods are heavily discussing changing the name of this thread to "Justifying lynching in the 21st century 101: You and your torch".
Working thru some stuff. Dunno how long i will be here.
@Panda:
I'm afraid it's been subsumed by the 'Post how your brownies were' thread. Sorry, Nova.
But it's giving me brownie envy :(
It's nothing to do with the fact I'm pathetically pale.
@Panda:
There is a wonderful, wonderful irony to this statement coming from someone with green stars.
No matter what i can always trust you to frame what i did or said in an amusing way.
In other news i'm considering making a souffle, haven't had or made one before so that could be fun
No, religion is not ''only a tool used by assholes'' , it is the one hardware that makes people do needlessly stupid and destructive things.
Everyone does needlessly stupid and destructive things, regardless of their chosen religion. EVERYONE. Why is this so hard to understand?
It's not like extremists just claim to believe what they believe in order to manipulate people.
A lot of them do, especially around here. Not only in religion but in politics too. Like this guy.
@Timbo:
Because this is something that is constantly excused, ignored or otherwise not condemned by intelligent, secular people, they are provided cover for all the time.
Not really.
My point about throwing theists into hell was of course, a play on the irony we see here
Yes, the irony of you acting exactly like the people you think you're fighting against. Very ironic.
@Timbo:
we are just advocating that we should talk about religion in the same honesty as we talk about anything in life. And I really don't see what could be a problem with that.
And that's exactly what people were doing until you came with your dumb "ALL VEILS ARE EVIL, HOW DARE YOU NOT TALK ABOUT THE EVILNESS OF VEILS" which now turned to the dumber "ALL RELIGIONS ARE EVIL, IF WE ERADICATE RELIGION AND CONVERT TO ATHEISM WE'LL SOLVE ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS"
But okay, I'm not on this forum to discuss religion, so if you want to ignore this comment, that is totally cool.
Stop trying to save face and seem like a cool, rational guy that you're clearly not.
Everyone does needlessly stupid and destructive things, regardless of their chosen religion. EVERYONE. Why is this so hard to understand?
Yeah and religion still motivates this behaviour. It isn't just a label people pick up in order to get cover for being assholes. They become assholes because they spout certain doctrine.
A lot of them do, especially around here. Not only in religion but in politics too. Like this guy.
If Edir Macedo would come out as a closet atheist saying that ''actually I never believed in god, I just wanted to manipulate people'' then maybe this argument would carry some fruit. Unfortunatly, I can't think of one single case where people lie about being religious in order to manipulate others. It could have happened, but let's just look at all the people who do act on their own ideologies and that would definetly outweight any form of conman.
Not really.
Well they quite obviously are.
Yes, the irony of you acting exactly like the people you think you're fighting against. Very ironic.
And that's exactly what Monkey King was doing until you came with your dumb "ALL VEILS ARE EVIL, HOW DARE YOU NOT TALK ABOUT THE EVILNESS OF VEILS" which now turned to the dumber "ALL RELIGIONS ARE EVIL, IF WE ERADICATE RELIGION AND CONVERT TO ATHEISM WE'LL SOLVE ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS"
Yeah, that's how it went down. Lol.
Stop trying to save face and seem like a cool, rational guy that you're clearly not.
To be frank, I don't really care what you think about me. I just happen to think the thread should head back to it's original purpose. If you still feel the need to slap me on my wrist, you can do that in my inbox or on my VM, or dedicate a new thread to roast me or anything like that. So meerely out of respect for other members, I think this subject should be abandoned.
Yeah and religion still motivates this behaviour. It isn't just a label people pick up in order to get cover for being assholes. They become assholes because they spout certain doctrine.
Stated like a true simpleton.
Religion "itself" isn't the cause behind behavior. It is people that use religion to legitimize their behavior through interpretation and then communicate to others that their interpretation is the correct one. Religion functions more like an instrument rather than a triggering mechanism due to religion being a remarkably broad, vague interpretive discourse (for the most part).
Therefore, attributing RELIGION as the cause of such behavior is a stupid/lazy way of looking at the situation. It's the people that use the religion and how they used the religion to carry out their agendas that can be deemed as destructive.
I also hate it when people just throw around the word "religion" in a vague sort of "encompassing" abstract terminology and shove a whole-sale "BAD" label on it without considering the sheer vast diversity of religion in itself.
PS: Ever seen "Moral Orel"? Yeah, that show pretty much communicates the idea I'm trying to get across to the faultiness of religion bashing.
You know what, screw it, Tab has the right idea. This thread needs more Rick and Morty clips:
If you're gonna engage in a discussion with me and rise to the defense of god, they are gonna have to justify their position. Same way I'm constantly justifying my position. I don't see the problem in expecting people to defend what they believe.
Yes, you do. You do see a problem. Didn't you tell MK earlier that you could be considered a "victim" because you have to constantly defend yourself and your position?
Well, I'm actually wondering when we will be considered a victim group. We certainly do have all of the odds against us.
If you can see yourself, your group, as victims then yes there is a problem in expecting that people have to constantly defend their beliefs. I'm not talking about the numbers. It's the straight and simple fact that you have to unreasonably defend yourself. Numbers =/= Victims.
Beliefs are a personal matter. No one here cares that you're atheist Timbo and no one here is asking you to defend your beliefs. No one cares. Yet, you're here telling us people who "call" or "label" themselves as Christian or Muslim must justify their position to you. In that context, why?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Panda, you're going to have to be the next poster if you want to go for the three-times-consecutive-page-starter record.
It is mine .
EDIT: I just read the inbox or PM request literally just now after my post. I went straight for the response when I came in.
I just spent half an hour in the middle of the woods, shining a flashlight up at my cat stuck in a tree, hoping she would quit meowing, realize there was absolutely nothing I could do to help her, and make her own way down. She finally did, thank god. That was certainly an experience, at any rate. I would swear at one point I started to hear what sounded like quite a large bird calling from nearby. Given that I know we have owls in the area…
That sounds really frightening, Panda. It's weirdly funny how cats will get themselves into perilous situations like that, but always be so good at getting back down once they take the leap of faith.
My wife and I just got a dog a couple months ago, and I would hate it if he got stuck outside somewhere beyond my reach. We have coyotes in our neighborhood, and I'm sure that they could nom him up right quick if he was unattended.
A truly magnificent lasagne has been made.
My ragu evolved over night and melded with the four cheese sauce and was topped off with mozzarella and aged local cheese.
Yeah and religion still motivates this behaviour. It isn't just a label people pick up in order to get cover for being assholes. They become assholes because they spout certain doctrine.
If Edir Macedo would come out as a closet atheist saying that ''actually I never believed in god, I just wanted to manipulate people'' then maybe this argument would carry some fruit. Unfortunatly, I can't think of one single case where people lie about being religious in order to manipulate others. It could have happened, but let's just look at all the people who do act on their own ideologies and that would definetly outweight any form of conman.
Well they quite obviously are.
Yes, the irony of you acting exactly like the people you think you're fighting against. Very ironic.Yeah, that's how it went down. Lol.
To be frank, I don't really care what you think about me. I just happen to think the thread should head back to it's original purpose. If you still feel the need to slap me on my wrist, you can do that in my inbox or on my VM, or dedicate a new thread to roast me or anything like that. So meerely out of respect for other members, I think this subject should be abandoned.
If you think it should be abandoned than shut the fuck up.
Guys I really think we should stop. replies
Guys I really think we should stop. replies
Guys I really think we should stop. replies
Guys I really think we should stop. replies
Shut the fuck up if you really mean it and want to move on. Notice how I respected that wish and how we were derailing this thread?
Yet BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA.
That you haven't been banned already is a fucking miracle. You really ought to be.
Tell yourself it's because you're atheist, rather than being an obnoxious ignorant schmuck spouting hateful dumb garbage.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
It's been a week and I'm enjoying England quite a bit! Granted, I've only experienced London and a few areas outside of it, but it's a great way to spend my first time out of my home country. Visiting pubs and as many locations as I can in a day.
The weirdest experience was learning that I absolutely do not have the right of way as a pedestrian in traffic. The thing is, I knew that logically, yet I'm so use to crossing a street almost anytime in the US that it was pretty much a habit. Nearly got hit by a car due to my own ignorance.
Not liking the US dollar to UK Pound rate, though. That blows.
Oh. My. GOD. Today i went to a Culture world fair in the downtown and i decided to forgo the belgian chocolate cake for a Sweden chocolate cake. So i like, need to know right now who is from Sweden or near Sweden in here. I'm gonna marry the fuck out of you or seduce of whatever the fuck it takes to gain access to that countrt and that delicious cake…shet, Belgium is near that right? I will go there and consume 10 times my body weight in chocolate and fuckin die. That good.
Also, the chicken Swartchzma (or whatever it is called) was pretty good but OHMYGODTHATCAKE.
Also, the England stand didn't have food. I like to imagine that they were vetoed for life after the first year when they brought english breakfast (Sorry, when i lived there i did not have a pleasant experience with the food. I'm scarred for life).
Working thru some stuff. Dunno how long i will be here.
If you are refering to a kladdkaka, which is the only Swedish chocolate cake i could think of, it's super easy to make.
It's the kind of thing you throw together when you are a kid. Takes like an hour and uses basic staples
Or if you are a true child at heart you just eat the cocoa/butter/sugar/egg paste and screw the dang adult process of cooking it.
Oh. My. GOD. Today i went to a Culture world fair in the downtown and i decided to forgo the belgian chocolate cake for a Sweden chocolate cake. So i like, need to know right now who is from Sweden or near Sweden in here. I'm gonna marry the fuck out of you or seduce of whatever the fuck it takes to gain access to that countrt and that delicious cake…shet, Belgium is near that right? I will go there and consume 10 times my body weight in chocolate and fuckin die. That good.
Also, the chicken Swartchzma (or whatever it is called) was pretty good but OHMYGODTHATCAKE.
Also, the England stand didn't have food. I like to imagine that they were vetoed for life after the first year when they brought english breakfast (Sorry, when i lived there i did not have a pleasant experience with the food. I'm scarred for life).
I know..English food:sad:
Any chance for a brazilian stand ? Or just Europe ?
My day…Today was boring, but tomorrow I will go to that course of "how to repair old books"..Shish..I´m still scared, but I will go anyway.
And also, this course has nothing to do about that time that I helped that guy in the library.
Has everyone on this site been traumatized by English food or what? xD
 