Not to mention Fukin Nightmare Luffy destroyed Moriah, that power-up was insane. Actually practically all the damage Luffy had after collapsing was caused by the power-ups (shadows and gears).
Chapter 628: "Cleansing" Discussion
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Not to mention Fukin Nightmare Luffy destroyed Moriah, that power-up was insane. Actually practically all the damage Luffy had after collapsing was caused by the power-ups (shadows and gears).
Please don't remind me of Nightmare Luffy…
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True he defeated two Shichibukai already, but people have to admit that he had incredible luck against Crocodile (nearly died 2 times) and he fought against Moriah with his whole crew backing him up. He also collapsed after the fight./QUOTE]
Yea I feel you but he had already just beaten a massive monster, with his own soul I might add, before he fought Moria. Not to mention Moria swallowed like a million souls lol. (I know it wasn't actually a million so none of you MoFo's call me out)
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So, my guess is that the 2 years of training were simply meant to learn the -basics- of haki, since Rayleigh said himself that it takes a lifetime to master it and most focus on one type because of that. Jinbe and Luffy will exchange a few blows, but Caribou will be the logia dummy to test his newfound abilities.
Agree 100% - Yes their strong but the 2 years is meant to put them on a level standing not a step above - so the fights are still interesting not a switch around where the SH's are now the ones who play with their pray.
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I really hate being reminded about Nightmare Luffy. I mean, Luffy was chasing Moriah but in the end he got trolled by him, Moriah then teams up with Oars and they proceed to rip apart the entire Strawhat crew one by one, but Luffy suddenly gets help from some forest losers and by help I mean an insane once in a lifetime powerup and completely turns the situation around. How bloody convenient :getlost:
It nearly ruined Thriller Bark for me. -
Actually, it seems more than anything now that Sanji will be Caribou's opponent. Luffy left Shira with him, and Cari is going to show up to capture her. The fact that Sanji has specific means to defeat him wouldn't prove whether Sanji has Haki or not, and we don't need Cari to prove that Luffy's Haki is impressive. Oda can save that for the fights against Hodi/Decken.
It was obvious ever since Caribou ended up captive on the Sunny.
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Well…Shichibukai or not, not like they were all the same in strength or difficulty. Hancock I doubt would stand up much in a fight if she went against Luffy since her tactics are based on usings someones pervy heart against them and being oh so pretty.
Luffy did luck out with Crocodile, he would have been screwed if Robin didn't intervene.
I liked the Moriah fight purely because it was a full group effort. But Luffy lucked into that one with getting the power-up when he did and that the crew lasted so long against Oz. I doubt that without all those extra factors there's hardly a chance he would have won on his own.
Don Flamingo and Mihawk will probably be the most difficult for obvious reasons. I think that Jinbe is probably middle of the road out of the Warlords.
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@Urouge
True he defeated two Shichibukai already, but people have to admit that he had incredible luck against Crocodile (nearly died 2 times) and he fought against Moriah with his whole crew backing him up. He also collapsed after the fight.I don't doubt that Luffy can take on Shichi-level characters by now, but he should still struggle against them, depending on their abilities. A one minute "on the go" fight, like some speculate, hopefully wont happen.
There are a lot of things I'd sort of like to say but I'd really rather not endorse a lengthy strength debate. So I'll keep it short.
There isn't really a "warlord tier" of strength because it varies far too much. Luffy was somewhere within that wide range before the timeskip, and I'm willing to give supporting arguments as to why he had clearly surpassed Croc and Moriah in the warlord/shichi thread if you really want them. Luffy irrefutably grew by leaps and bounds over the course of the timeskip, as demonstrated by the fights against the pacifistas. Luffy is probably still within that extremely wide range because it's too early for him to have surpassed Mihawk, though he's much much closer to the top end of it now. Jinbe's claim to fame comes in the water, which by his own admission he's significantly stronger there than he is on land.
Oda can save that for the fights against Hodi/Decken.
…what would be impressive about that?
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I really hate being reminded about Nightmare Luffy. I mean, Luffy was chasing Moriah but in the end he got trolled by him, Moriah then teams up with Oars and they proceed to rip apart the entire Strawhat crew one by one, but Luffy suddenly gets help from some forest losers and by help I mean an insane once in a lifetime powerup and completely turns the situation around. How bloody convenient :getlost:
It nearly ruined Thriller Bark for me.You're crazy.
Actually, it seems more than anything now that Sanji will be Caribou's opponent. Luffy left Shira with him, and Cari is going to show up to capture her. The fact that Sanji has specific means to defeat him wouldn't prove whether Sanji has Haki or not, and we don't need Cari to prove that Luffy's Haki is impressive. Oda can save that for the fights against Hodi/Decken.
It was obvious ever since Caribou ended up captive on the Sunny.
I don't see how Sanji could defeat him without Haki he'd just get stuck in the swamp.
Unless he covers his shoes with seawater, or has seastone boots.:ninja:
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You're crazy.
If you say so, but I still found it very dissapointing. Oda can do and has done far better than that and sorry for going off topic.
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…what would be impressive about that?
I'm saying that relative to the option of him fighting Caribou. Otherwise, it'd be a bunch of OHKOs.
I don't see how Sanji could defeat him without Haki he'd just get stuck in the swamp.
Unless he covers his shoes with seawater, or has seastone boots.:ninja:
Heat causes mud to harden. That allows Sanji to hit him. I'm really waiting for Cari's reaction to that fact.
One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
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I really hate being reminded about Nightmare Luffy. I mean, Luffy was chasing Moriah but in the end he got trolled by him, Moriah then teams up with Oars and they proceed to rip apart the entire Strawhat crew one by one, but Luffy suddenly gets help from some forest losers and by help I mean an insane once in a lifetime powerup and completely turns the situation around. How bloody convenient :getlost:
It nearly ruined Thriller Bark for me.I liked Nightmare Luffy just for his appearance. Fight-wise, he knocked out Moriah, but his punches didn't hurt Oars, because he's a zombie, and Luffy didn't focus any punches at all. Oars' dead body just absorbed it like nothing.
I don't see how Sanji could defeat him without Haki he'd just get stuck in the swamp.
Unless he covers his shoes with seawater, or has seastone boots.:ninja:
Diablo Jamble will bake Caribou's swamp-mud, making him vulnerable to hits. It'll be like water to Crocodile.
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I liked Nightmare Luffy just for his appearance. Fight-wise, he knocked out Moriah, but his punches didn't hurt Oars, because he's a zombie, and Luffy didn't focus any punches at all. Oars' dead body just absorbed it like nothing.
Oars wasn't made of rubber, he did take damage, he just didn't feel the pain. That's why later Oars couldn't move his arm to defend against gigant bazooka.
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I liked Nightmare Luffy just for his appearance. Fight-wise, he knocked out Moriah, but his punches didn't hurt Oars, because he's a zombie, and Luffy didn't focus any punches at all. Oars' dead body just absorbed it like nothing.
I'm just glad that Nightmare Luffy in the end didn't manage to beat neither Oars nor Moriah because that would have been really cheap. He did however ruin nearly all the tension I felt during the fight with the Oars/Moriah combo and while I too like his design, it's just not enough for me to forgive him for that.
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I'm saying that relative to the option of him fighting Caribou. Otherwise, it'd be a bunch of OHKOs.
I'm not so sure VDD is any stronger than Caribou, and there's really no way to tell. I agree that Caribou is most likely to fight Sanji, but the one encounter between VDD and Luffy showed just how much VDD stands no chance whatsoever. Even his ability isn't enough to make Luffy sweat, as he's been defending Shirahoshi from it just fine and without concern, which would be more difficult than defending himself from it.
Hodi we've already seen get OHKO'd underwater by Zoro. Maybe jacked up on pills and underwater at the same time he could survive the first punch. As far as I can still, we still haven't seen Luffy's opponent.
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I'm saying that relative to the option of him fighting Caribou. Otherwise, it'd be a bunch of OHKOs.
Heat causes mud to harden. That allows Sanji to hit him. I'm really waiting for Cari's reaction to that fact.
It's Oda's manga dude. Logic doesn't work here unless Oda says it does and Sanji sucks at saving women. Look back at thriller bark. Pretty sure the second most people found out Caribou was a logia, they figured he'd be Luffy's logia-owning exhibition.
@royal pain: Nightmare Luffy was one of the most awesome things ever and it was the third time Luffy used his awesome gomu gomu no storm xD. (first time was against crocodile and second was against aokiji)
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ABCBTom posted his thoughts on the latest chapter, one point he made intrigued me…
I’ve seen a lot of questioning of Jimbei’s assumption that a fishman just defeat Jones. Many will argue they won’t mind if a human saves them from being executed, since Jones is hardly going to win any popularity contests for this. That may be true, but I don’t think it’s solely about the cycle of hatred. If humans resolve this issue for the fishmen, it could cause other problems for fishman identity and feelings of inferiority. I think Jimbei’s right in that fishmen need to take care of fishmen business. That way, fishmen themselves can be proud that they removed this strain of violence and hatred from their community themselves. That said, Luffy and Jimbei are stupid to fight about it and Nami needs to set them straight ASAP.
This actually a pretty good point considering the queens drunken speech, and how the population has so far given into Hodi's demands with apparently no resistance at all.
Any thoughts?
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I keep seeing people mention Jimbei's strength in the water throughout the thread. No doubt, all fishmen are stronger in the water, before Hodi and Zoro fighting any of them underwater was considered impossible. But I'm confused, are people stating that Jimbei is simple weaker on land as opposed to water or that Jimbei is weak on land? Cause, that would seem weird to me when most of Jimbei's fights have been on land. Heck, while this example is open to interpretation the battle between Ace and Jimbei at the very least ended on land. I think this guy made a name for himself fighting anywhere. It's just in water…I imagine he's probably invincible.
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If you say so, but I still found it very dissapointing. Oda can do and has done far better than that and sorry for going off topic.
You're entitled to your opinion on your likes and dislikes.
But Nightmare Luffy was not a poor storytelling from Oda. At all.
You just didn't like it. That's all.That's all I have to say.
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There isn't really a "warlord tier" of strength because it varies far too much. Luffy was somewhere within that wide range before the timeskip, and I'm willing to give supporting arguments as to why he had clearly surpassed Croc and Moriah in the warlord/shichi thread if you really want them. Luffy irrefutably grew by leaps and bounds over the course of the timeskip, as demonstrated by the fights against the pacifistas. Luffy is probably still within that extremely wide range because it's too early for him to have surpassed Mihawk, though he's much much closer to the top end of it now.
Absolutely right, but I'd just like to point out, that range is pretty damned big now if Buggy's been selected as one, as seems incredibly likely.
Hang in there, Kierkegaard.
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Like Urouge said, if any of you want to continue the strength arguments, for Moria or Jinbe, it would probably be better we take it to the appropriate thread. On the subject of Moria and Nightmare Luffy, I always feel compelled to make the same argument… which I have no desire to rewrite. Feel free to respond in the Warlord/Shichi thread, but here's my old argument-- actually, forgive me, arguments… I couldn't find a more recent self-contained post:
Nightmare Luffy's purpose – plot wise -- was to provoke Moria into proving he was superior to Luffy, which allowed all of the shadows to be released. Without that provocation, Oda would have had to write another scenario where Moria would willingly bring back or release all of the shadows he had. It just works better, and looks cooler, with Nightmare Luffy in the mix. In fact, take Nightmare Luffy out of the mix...
[hide]@brennen.exe:
Luffy went from full strength (pre-Nightmare) to barely able to move (post-Nightmare). So, if anything, it put them on fairly level playing ground. Well, I personally lean more towards Luffy being in a weaker state, but that's just me.
If they had Luffy with them from the start instead of off somewhere chasing the wind, they would have done MUCH better against Oars. It was Gear 3rd that broke Oars' spine, so that could have happened far sooner than it did were they all working together from the get go. What you need to remember is that just BEING Nightmare Luffy completely exhausted him to the point where he had to be carried by Brook just to attack Oars.
(In short:) Luffy wouldn't have been completely exhausted, the crew would have taken out Oars the same way they did, and Luffy would still have more than enough energy to battle Moria… but they'd still need to get Moria to release the shadows.
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The chapter was great and it had many hilarious scenes!Anybody understood if the apology on the poneglygh was from joy boy or to him?
The end wasn't a huge plot twist as someone from the shounen jump i think said but i think it's time Oda show us how strong luffy has become,unless Oda will troll with us and next chapter jinbe says something like "ok it can't be helped,le'ts go together".Anyway as many believe i think that there will be a little fighting scene with luffy overpowering jinbe without much effort at best jinbe manages to hit luffy but without serious damage, or else this whole 2 years of training would be for nothing.
Now probably the fight will be interrupted either from nami like back at WP punching them both(and if this happen will be like the "official" joining of jinbe) or from VDD.Anyway i just feel that there might not be some "shadow" behind all this but neither VDD,hodi,caribou dont feat like real threat to the crew..I just hope that if really there is noone behind pulling the strings that either hodi will be overpowered by the ES(i dont really believe this,too cheap from Oda imo) or VDD makes something with shirahoshi and manages to summon SeaKings but again i dont really like this idea,plus the new "bodyguard" of shirahoshi is sanji and i cant see how VDD will take him out.
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Ha! I had a horrible idea. People keep mentioning the greater force behind Decken/Hodi, someone stronger then them to fight the improved Strawhats. What if…Jimbei actually fights Luffy the entire time, leaving his crew to fight the NF Pirates. He's clearly stronger then any of the fishman pirates and probably Decken, being that he's the only fishman shichibukai after all. Look at the numbers, there are 6 NF pirates, one Decken, and one Caribou. There are 9 Strawhats. Assuming all of them take up a fight (Robin being most questionable here), there's a slot missing. What if Jimbei actually ends up being stupid enough to fight Luffy the entire time while this took place? What if Nami can't stop Jimbei and instead Sanji and co go rescue the rest of the crew? What if Oda goes the "history repeats" route and Luffy and Jimbei fight for days?
Not likely to happen, but still pretty funny. It could be the first arc where the final opponent in entirely incidental. Though it would explain why Luffy and Zoro earlier proved themselves stronger then Decken and Hodi....but it's still too far out of an idea.
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The chapter was great and it had many hilarious scenes! Anybody understood if the apology on the poneglygh was from joy boy or to him?
Robin doesn't say. She just asks who he is.
Ha! I had a horrible idea. People keep mentioning the greater force behind Decken/Hodi, someone stronger then them to fight the improved Strawhats. What if…Jimbei actually fights Luffy the entire time, leaving his crew to fight the NF Pirates. He's clearly stronger then any of the fishman pirates and probably Decken, being that he's the only fishman shichibukai after all. Look at the numbers, there are 6 NF pirates, one Decken, and one Caribou. There are 9 Strawhats. Assuming all of them take up a fight (Robin being most questionable here), there's a slot missing. What if Jimbei actually ends up being stupid enough to fight Luffy the entire time while this took place? What if Nami can't stop Jimbei and instead Sanji and co go rescue the rest of the crew? What if Oda goes the "history repeats" route and Luffy and Jimbei fight for days?
Not likely to happen, but still pretty funny. It could be the first arc where the final opponent in entirely incidental. Though it would explain why Luffy and Zoro earlier proved themselves stronger then Decken and Hodi....but it's still too far out of an idea.
This is a great idea! I don't know how likely it is, but it would be nice keeping Luffy busy the whole time so the crew can shine.
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There isn't really a "warlord tier" of strength because it varies far too much. Luffy was somewhere within that wide range before the timeskip, and I'm willing to give supporting arguments as to why he had clearly surpassed Croc and Moriah in the warlord/shichi thread
That I disagree on he has suppassed Moria but I don't think he Surpassed Crocodile
meet you for the debate at the Shichi thread
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Absolutely right, but I'd just like to point out, that range is pretty damned big now if Buggy's been selected as one, as seems incredibly likely.
Buggy's got a really strong crew though and he's made himself out to look like a bad ass. The Shichibukai's main purpose is to be a threat to other pirates and discourage them from doing illegal shit.
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this chapter was a 7/10 for me, but it had a lot of infomation about hordey's plan, and the fact that zoro, usopp and brook are in a cage. but i think zoro's just 'enjoing the ride'. and is it just me, or does chopper in the color spread look 'human'? almost like a kid
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Heat causes mud to harden. That allows Sanji to hit him. I'm really waiting for Cari's reaction to that fact.Lol whut, but Sanji doesn't know he's a logia user right? In fact he kicked Caribou earlier and Caribou hid his Logia ability, so Sanji would come at him with a similar kick and get stuck and that would be that.
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If you say so, but I still found it very dissapointing. Oda can do and has done far better than that and sorry for going off topic.
Well, any other bright ideas on how Luffy was going to topple a giant that is 2-3 times larger than normal? Also considering the fact that his crew was fighting him for 7 chapters before that….and losing. I feel it worked considerably fine in my book.
Love the irony in your avy tho lol.
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@Gia:
Well, any other bright ideas on how Luffy was going to topple a giant that is 2-3 times larger than normal? Also considering the fact that his crew was fighting him for 7 chapters before that….and losing. I feel it worked considerably fine in my book.
Love the irony in your avy tho lol.
Hey, I like Thriller Bark. It combines 2 great things: One Piece and horror movies, plus the arc's main villain is one of my favourite characters ever. Anyway THE SEA explained my problem with Nightmare Luffy perfectly on these 2 pages:
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=27758&page=112
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=27758&page=113 -
Lol whut, but Sanji doesn't know he's a logia user right? In fact he kicked Caribou earlier and Caribou hid his Logia ability, so Sanji would come at him with a similar kick and get stuck and that would be that.
Or more simply… Zoro and Sanji will show that they have learned some haki as well seeing like most of the top characters of a fraction are able to use it
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Or more simply… Zoro and Sanji will show that they have learned some haki as well seeing like most of the top characters of a fraction are able to use it
But they weren't trained in Haki were they? At least Sanji wasn't, Mihawk very well could have taught the basics to Zoro(assuming Mihawk knows Haki), but Sanji just fought against 99 Okamas.
Seeing Haki being used and actually doing it is a completely different thing entirely.
I'm not throwing it out though, I think using Haki will be something that will be intricate to the plot moving forward into the New World for everyone not just the Monster Trio. But with no evidence to support those two learning Haki just yet, color me skeptical.
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I doubt they have been taught to use Haki, Logia users are considered among the strongest, and so far Oda included every logia user to be the badass that Mugiwara will fight, all of Luffy's training was focused on Haki for him to be able to deal with such users since he always HAD a hard time with them, I think Zoro and Sanji and probably others will learn Haki as they travel in New World. I don't know but I think Haki will be Luffy's unique power among the crew for now. BTW I don't think Mihawk can use Haki. O_o if he did wouldn't he have been able to kill Buggy in Marineford.
Also, someone actually said something logical about Sanji fighting Caribou, now Caribou is abducting Mermaids this will make Sanji go into rage mode because of his chivalry, not to mention Luffy wants to leave Shirahoshi in Sanji's care. So he could fight Caribou, or even more Dickens since he wants Shirahoshi either to marry him or die if she refuses to. Both of those guys conflicts with Sanji's ideals.
Buggy's got a really strong crew though and he's made himself out to look like a bad ass. The Shichibukai's main purpose is to be a threat to other pirates and discourage them from doing illegal shit.
This about Buggy. Also, if you remember correctly even the government doesn't know that Buggy is weak, they thought he was keeping himself low, but when they learned he was in Oro Jackson as a crewmate of the Pirate King, they immediately thought he was very strong, not to mention he has a lot of outlaws who have high bounties. They can spread around his status of being a crewmate of pirate king and being like a brother to Akagami Shanks. This in-turn does what a Shichibukai should do.
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It's Oda's manga dude. Logic doesn't work here unless Oda says it does and Sanji sucks at saving women.
What… Oda usually bases elemental clashes around general real world logic, so it's definitely a good way to make a theory. And yes, heat is the most likely thing to be a mud logia's weakness.
I'll never understand the argument against basic logic in general.
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What… Oda usually bases elemental clashes around general real world logic, so it's definitely a good way to make a theory. And yes, heat is the most likely thing to be a mud logia's weakness.
I'll never understand the argument against basic logic in general.
Maybe because of things like magma burning fire, Enel breathing on the moon, Megalo (a shark) being able to breath on land….list goes on.
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Lol thanks for explaining Jabra, I was actually surprised someone tried to refute that statement let alone Urouge. It's a manga, it's obvious that a lot of non logical stuff will be in it. Luffy's body already doesn't make sense not to mention the fact that diable jambe doesn't burn Sanji's feet.
Even if Sanji could burn a tiny part of caribou's body the dude is bottomless so I doubt it would affect him much. You probably need to hit his true body to do any damage and that's what haki is for.
Sanji would probably just get his foot stuck in Caribou and get sucked in like the mermaids.
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Maybe because of things like magma burning fire, Enel breathing on the moon, Megalo (a shark) being able to breath on land….list goes on.
Magma is a liquid, so it can snuff out fires. The rest is just being picky and makes as much sense as arguing how Jango shouldn't have a fungus on his chin.
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Maybe because of things like magma burning fire, Enel breathing on the moon, Megalo (a shark) being able to breath on land….list goes on.
The magma beating fire thing is certainly odd, but it's by no means unreasonable. It's sort of impossible to pit the two against each other, but if you could magma would definitely have the advantage.
Accessibility of environment is a different conversation entirely than how fruit powers interact in a fight.
Lol thanks for explaining Jabra, I was actually surprised someone tried to refute that statement let alone Urouge. It's a manga, it's obvious that a lot of non logical stuff will be in it. Luffy's body already doesn't make sense not to mention the fact that diable jambe doesn't burn Sanji's feet.
You're ignoring the point, which is fruit powers interacting with other things, and their weaknesses. How they do follows a logical pattern. Sand clumps up when it gets wet, so logically water works against the ability. Rubber is heavily resistant (immune in manga terms) to electricity, so it makes logical sense that it'd work against it. Mud dries up and gets hard with heat, so it'd make logical sense that heat would work against it. It's the essence of a THEORY. The magma and fire thing is really the only questionable one we've seen, and even that really isn't all that bad if you think about it.
Saying "lol logic doesn't matter" just because it isn't perfect is incredibly naive.
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Saying "lol logic doesn't matter" just because it isn't perfect is incredibly naive.
Sorry but I've never heard of "logic" being imperfect before. It has to make sense in order to be logical and I've never heard of a swamp burning. Saying that Sanji can make a part of Caribou's body hard with fire and that this supposed to hurt him does not seem logical to me. Suppose you succeed in making Caribou hard and then breaking him; he's a logia he can come back together.
If it was logical we wouldn't even be talking about it, it'd make perfect sense by itself.
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But they weren't trained in Haki were they? At least Sanji wasn't, Mihawk very well could have taught the basics to Zoro(assuming Mihawk knows Haki), but Sanji just fought against 99 Okamas.
Seeing Haki being used and actually doing it is a completely different thing entirely.
I'm not throwing it out though, I think using Haki will be something that will be intricate to the plot moving forward into the New World for everyone not just the Monster Trio. But with no evidence to support those two learning Haki just yet, color me skeptical.
So everyone has to learn HAKI from a teacher? There is no other method of it… And prove to me that not one of the 99 Okama masters knew about it. Iva knew what haki is and Sanji already saw haki in form of Rayleigh back then. Him and Zoro seemed to have sensed something when Rayleigh entered but couldn't answer it.
I have no doubts that Sanji and Zoro have learned at LEAST one type of haki during their training if not both excluding CoC (maybe Zoro). But we know people tend to one type of haki more than the other...
Sanji Diable Jambe screams to CoA and Zoro screams towards CoO.
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Magma could be seen superior to fire, because it could take away the air,which fire needs to exist.
Also magma is about 700-1250 degrees hot, while fire normally just reaches 1000 degrees with the brightest flame.(but sure fire could reach higher temperatures with more air) -
Sanji Diable Jambe screams to CoA and Zoro screams towards CoO.
No, Sanji's diable jambe just screams plot hole lol not CoA. If they were gonna learn haki I think they would have mentioned it pre-time skip like they did with Luffy.
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No, Sanji's diable jambe just screams plot hole lol not CoA. If they were gonna learn haki I think they would have mentioned it pre-time skip like they did with Luffy.
To let the suprise being away? That Luffy would have it was no brain. We know it ever since Rayleigh said it to him.
But we will see. I have no doubts that the top 3 of the crew have it. If fodder AL have it, Coby has it, each VA has it… I have no doubts.
And yeah Plot Hole... like after 400 chapters before we got the answer what Shanks has did back than to the sea monster or Luffy has done against Duval's pet.
And strange that the one Boa Sister, which has tended toward CoA, matched herself on fire without being burned cuz of the haki armor
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And strange that the one Boa Sister, which has tended toward CoA, matched herself on fire without being burned cuz of the haki armor
Well we've seen that hair manipulation from the CP9 b4 and haki seems to let people touch elements, but Sanji was a kicker and then randomly started burning his leg with fire, there was nothing leading to it at all so there's nothing suggesting haki there. At least Oda tried to explain gears 2 and 3 and we'd even heard enemies talking about Zoro's beast-like aura b4 he used ashura but there was no lead-in for Sanji at all except him saying he was a hunter.
And Marigold called herself a salamander before she used the fire technique so that probably had something to do with it.
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Well we've seen that hair manipulation from the CP9 b4 and haki seems to let people touch elements, but Sanji was a kicker and then randomly started burning his leg with fire, there was nothing leading to it so there's nothing suggesting haki there.
Think as you wish.
We had no explanation for the things like Shanks for a looooooong time, because Oda didn't want to explain haki back then. Same for Diable Jambe and some other "strange" things which happened in the past.
But if you think that way… Even if Zoro or Sanji will hit a logia... I will scream it was no haki, cuz he hasn't named it like Luffy has done.
Once again... look at the Boa sisters and compare them to the monster trio.
But I know... Thinking outside of the box is too hard for some people
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It's not a plot hole.
It's HEART.
You mean that stuff about him getting heated up? Another random love plot hole like him flying in the sky when he thought Nami was gonna get married or having high power nosebleeds that sadly fail to kill him.
But I know… Thinking outside of the box is too hard for some people
No, fan-fantasy is very easy but some of us like to be realistic. Everybody wants the monster trio to have haki but be real, they haven't shown anything suggesting it before or after the time skip and it's this far into the arc.
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You mean that stuff about him getting heated up? Another random love plot hole like him flying in the sky when he thought Nami was gonna get married or having high power nosebleeds that sadly fail to kill him.
No, fan-fantasy is very easy but some of us like to be realistic.
Or like Zoro randomly growing 4 extra arms and legs + copying his swords.
But yeah… outside of the box is hard.
So you are one of the people who only will believe somet hing if it will be named or said... So we have no prove that Shanks used haki against the sea monster. It was just a "evil" look
