@Monkey:
So not swearing loyalty to him is a deserving death?
Invading king. The leader of a foreign army trying to conquest the lands that he claims. Why wouldn't he deserve death.
@Monkey:
How does that change things?
I dunno,this one makes him feel guilty, and was called on it by Davos, he had no choice though. His claim is the true one, if he faced renly in battle, he'd either lose or be severely crippled for the Lannisters. I won't defend him on this because he murdered his brother.
@Monkey:
Ok, and the nobles were former slave lords who were almost 75%-100% sure to be involved in the KKK thing.
The crucifixtion was before the sons of the harpy was formed, like if she killed most fathers of family, brought dragons, and the stories of how she got the army, and take away their horrible privilege, and hoped the people wouldn't revolt. Also it was stated that most free men who were por (as the slaves were mostly made of foreigners, while the poor natives were just poor workers). The ones who are actualy going out and doing the killings are the lower class of mereen that before were at least above the slaves, and now that they are just at the same level than the slaves, they weren't feeling cooperative with the new dragon overlady.
Hell, even the prostitute was in it with them. And Daenerys fucked up some of her good creed by excecuting the ex-slave, so she's actualy cultivating the dissent on behalf of her halfassed justice. Not that the former slaves would join the sons of the harpy, but that hissing scene was heavy on the discontent of everyone.
@Monkey:
I'm sorry but this is an extremely silly argument. Stannis actually hasn't been shown to be some sort of nice guy, he's been shown to be as mercenary as anyone has. Everyone except the Starks has been shown to be this way, or should be assumed to be this way to some extent.
Slave masters are pretty awful people, and the ones who weren't involved they didn't know about.
Killing some slave owning nobles, who are currently waging a reactionary guerilla movement by all evidence of history is nothing even remotely barbarous by the standards of the show.
Not nice, but the most just (not that he has actual comparable contenders), doing the most Starkish things, like pasing sentence on Davos himself. Contrast with Daenerys that every good thing that she does, ends up turning to crap because she stops watching it. George is saying that not only good intentions are needed to be a good leader. And doing bad things doesn't turn you into a bad leader. I won't say that it's barbaric, I'm saying that what she's doing shortsighted and reactionary, compounded by hypocrital when you get to see her tought process.
Besides the Ghiscari were already fucked over by the dragons in the ancient times, she brought back the monsters that burned down their empire, and is feeding them their people.
@Monkey:
Again, being annoyed that she isn't solving the unsolvable and extremely complicated thing just comes off bizarre to me because this is precisely what happens irl in this sort of situation. This is how reconstruction went down in the USA. Maybe you're missing the massive backstory and context because uh that didn't happened in Venezuela quite the same way. But I really don't understand why this is annoying.
Dany is wading into an extremely complicated gray area filled messy reform of an entrenched slave society that is also apartheid South Africa like in it's imbalanced demographics of the power people being less than the under people. And you're annoyed thatâŚwhat? Like I don't get what's annoying.
That she doesn't immediately grasp the incredible complexity? Know who else wouldn't? Every single other character in the show including Stannis, who I imagine would have wiped out the nobility since he's pretty cold like that.
I'm more anoyed at george by putting her in a situation, where she can only lose, for over 10 (real world) years. In the show they are focusing in her failings as a political figure, but in the books the issues are way more serious, as the slaver cities lost their main economy, and Mereen and Astapor are facing famine, because she destroyed the main source of income of the region.
@Monkey:
Where are you getting this idea that most of the slaves were upset by freedom? It was mentioned that a few are having trouble, the house slaves, who by nature would have been fewer in number. It's obvious that most want freedom.
The issue next though is in radically changing an unjust society, you still have to do the insane hard work to restructure it. People treated as cattle for centuries are going to need a new role in life. And that needs to be invented by the new boss.
I guess the confy job (arts, crafts and scholars) slaves were the minority, those were the ones who were stated to be dissapointed in the new order, and wanted to leave the city even enough to be slaves again. And yes, she's in the hardest dificulty of any king, the diference is that she got these responsabilities by conquest.
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@Taggerung:
Deserved is completely subjective. Judgement is subjective. You can't use these words as if they are objective, some kind of truth, and then argue around that.
You say Dany should free the slaves but then say her decision to rule them is questionable. But we know what happens if she doesn't stay to rule. In Yunkai the Master's took back power and dealt bloody punishment to the slaves as soon as Dany left. You blame her for breaking everything without thinking about what to replace it with and when she tries to replace it with herself you find that annoying. You bash her for trying to force her morals on other people but Stannis is literally forcing his religion down everyones throat or else they get fed to fire. You say that that he only kills people who deserve to die but you ignore him killing his Maester and had Davos not interfered he would have burned Gendry
Cyan D Funky points out that Stannis's thinking is that the ritual of burning Gendry would save millions of lives lost in the future of war but that ignores the fact that Stannis could also save those lives by simply surrendering his claim to the throne. Instead his actions have escalated a war and cost the lives of an untold number of people. Why aren't you blaming Stannis for breaking something without thinking about what it would take to fix it.
I don't think you hold Stannis to the same standards that you hold Dany. I think you've done a good job of pointing that out as well.
Can't argue with my preference for Stanis because I belive that even with his crimes and attrocities, Stanis would be a better king than the rest of the contenders (specialy if he got rid of mellisandre the instant that the world stops ending) The alive ones at least. But if he'd gone and did the same mistakes that Danny did, I'll call bullshit.
All of them have blood on their hands, but Stanis both regrets it and is tempered by it. He did his worst at the start of the war and cuts back, while Daenerys is scalating.
If it was for minimizing the loss of life, then of the wars of 5 kings, Stanis (and Renly) should be the ones with the least civilian casualties, because yes, even the Stark forces were seen with contempt and fear in the riverlands.
If it's for stoping the end of the world, well that's another issue altogether. Mellisandre has shown enough prowress up to that point to belive her claim. Was Davos right for saving a life that would be devoured by winter anyways, it's something for the future to show.
Also, how do you remember that Maester Cresen died? He poisoned himself trying to kill Melissandre. Stanis didn't even want him in that meeting.
Ok, Deserved to die was an opinion, but Florent and Mance comited treason. The punishment for treason is death. Even if Stanis hadn't started to kill mance, the nightwatch had priority for he was an oathbreaker.