Chapter 588 "Sabo's Ocean" Discussion

Jazzfeezy

[qimg]http://www.ashrants.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/clap.gif[/qimg]

I always wanted to ask you, when you give this clap, is it "congrats captain obvious" "Way to be late" or "the Clap of Shame" ?

Ivotas

@Jazzfeezy:

I always wanted to ask you, when you give this clap, is it "congrats captain obvious" "Way to be late" or "the Clap of Shame" ?

Can't really chose since it's more like a mix of those three. :ninja:

bartholemew kuma

^ i think its a bit of all 3

vlad Dracul

still nice finding ! i just rewatched the ep, and he is quite right !

isrnick

It's very useful exactly because suits several situations, you can easily switch between the 3 meanings using the same image. (So buy it today! Or just copy it…)

Jazzfeezy

@Ivotas:

Can't really chose since it's more like a mix of those three. :ninja:

Agreed thank you for that. I have always been a fan of your humor especially in the tournament!

Sammsy

@No:

Uhm how do you contact someone like Ace ? I mean Whitebeard already showed an intense hatred for postal services :ninja:

you mean contact someone who is with whitbeard the man who seems to treasure 'family' above all else. Ace managed to go and talk to shanks, and yes Shanks was all prepared for whatever happens. Didn't expect Ace to come friendly, yet they then partied. I imagine it would be the same for whitebeard if Sabo wanted to go and see Ace.

Oh and who knows how long it was before Ace joined whitebeard. Ace was around Solo probbaly at least a year. Then again however long chasing Teach, Ace was all over the world. There were plenty of times to see Ace and he moved around enough to have been near you at one time.
@Akumu:

Catalyst to bringing down the Tenryuubito. Luffy already hates them. If Sabo is alive and he learns that the ones responsible for whatever happened to him are the good ol' Celestial Dragons he'll proobably flip a shit. And if Sabo is with Dragon, we may see father and son taking down the world nobles.

Chances of happening, 1 in a million.
It would be insanely awesome though….

Luffy doesn't need to know every little detail in the story. The main character or characters in the story rarely do. They know enough to be pissed at the enemy. For Luffy's instance he has reason enough already to hate Tenryuubito, and in future if they are introduced again, I'm sure another reason will be brought up for Luffy to go Ape shit on them all, and in that time even though Luffy won't be doing it for Sabo, or for Hancock, or anyone else that may not be directly related to that incident in the end WE get the feeling of justice finally being served for all those characters that we know have been affected by their cruel rule.

I mean hell look how much Hancock was affected hearing Luffy hit a tenryuubito and he didn't even know her so obviously wasn't doing it for her sake at all. So if later Luffy is doing it due to lets say finding out History he could be doing it not really for anyone specific, or maybe somewhat Robin, yet We will feel he is finally giving them what they deserve for hancock, for sabo, for camie, for fishmen, ect.

Sammsy

This post is deleted!

Ivotas

@vlad:

still nice finding ! i just rewatched the ep, and he is quite right !

Zik

I never payed attention to who ppl were talking about and assumed they were talking about the other guy who some ppl were saying opened the GOJ as an undercover marine lulz

vlad Dracul

go away, ivo !

bartholemew kuma

@Ivotas:

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/gabzylovescrack/oh1ra9.gif

weve seen that gif a million times.
come up with something new :ninja:

Ivotas

@bartholemew:

weve seen that gif a million times.
come up with something new :ninja:

a4n_ZLVGWu4&feature=related

bartholemew kuma

@Ivotas:

a4n_ZLVGWu4&feature=related

am sorry but youtube doesnt work here.
anyways i appreciate the effort

Kishido

@bartholemew:

weve seen that gif a million times.
come up with something new :ninja:

I never saw that gif^^

rubbereruben

@$abZ:

Lol what? Didn't think it was that kind of chapter.

Anyway, until there's actual proof that Sabo is dead, then there's always the chance he survived. There's no definate situation.

Man I was fucking high when I said that shit…

What I meant to say was I cried like someone punched me in the nuts...

Akumu

@isrnick:

Again, "meet up with you two somewhere again" isn't some kind of restriction to having to meet they both at the same time, he could have met one first and the other after and he would still be "meeting the two of them somewhere", and it would be ridiculous to create a condition to only meet the two of them together.

The point is he'd meet up with them both when they're all pirates.
The brothers would all be back together. It makes sense that they'd be together.

And there is no reason why he would have hidden the truth from his own brothers about he being alive, if he was planning to pretend his death he should at least have told them that this was his plan from the beginning, in the letter he sent to Ace and Luffy, or send another letter to tell them saying that he was fine, or find other means to tell them, because they are his beloved brothers!

If you're going to fake your own death, YOU'RE GOING TO FAKE YOUR OWN DEATH. What's the quickest way to screw that up, letting people know you're alive! Even if they're his brothers if he wants to be truely free, even they have to believe he is dead.

Sabo isn't a experienced sailor or navigator, to sail during the night would be dangerous, he could simply run into a rock underwater near the coast, and to sink without any help coming.

Seriously? If Sabo's going to go sailing off to become a pirate all on his own, he's definitely going to have some sailing and navigating skills.
And yes, sailing at night is so much more dangerous than leaving when there's a coast full of people watching you and a WG ship heading your way.

@Sammsy:

Luffy doesn't need to know every little detail in the story. The main character or characters in the story rarely do. They know enough to be pissed at the enemy. For Luffy's instance he has reason enough already to hate Tenryuubito, and in future if they are introduced again, I'm sure another reason will be brought up for Luffy to go Ape shit on them all, and in that time even though Luffy won't be doing it for Sabo, or for Hancock, or anyone else that may not be directly related to that incident in the end WE get the feeling of justice finally being served for all those characters that we know have been affected by their cruel rule.

I mean hell look how much Hancock was affected hearing Luffy hit a tenryuubito and he didn't even know her so obviously wasn't doing it for her sake at all. So if later Luffy is doing it due to lets say finding out History he could be doing it not really for anyone specific, or maybe somewhat Robin, yet We will feel he is finally giving them what they deserve for hancock, for sabo, for camie, for fishmen, ect.

Alright, then where's the point of introducing the tenryuubito into the story if their only purpose was to shoot Sabo's ship?
Where's the point of hiding the king's face if the flashback is over?

Those things, especially hiding the king's face point to this flashback not being over yet, which I believe gives Sabo a greater chance of being alive.

mrkaizoku

Why would Dogura lie to Dandan, Ace, and Luffy about witnessing Sabo's death? He saw exactly what happened (he was using BINOCULARS) and explained it to everyone. What does Dogura gain by lying?

Jiks

@KiShiDo:

Not only that… During SA the first time he saw them... He said

"It's them..."

I may be mistaken, but in the RAW did it not say it's them …?

BTW in the French (Glénat (official)) version, it's : "It's them ?", but I don't know how accurate they are ^^

PS : Wow, my first post ever on AP forums :p

Super Connard

@KiShiDo:

Not only that… During SA the first time he saw them... He said

"It's them..."

I'm tired of people using that as a argument.
Have you even read this passage ?

The page before Luffy thought the dog was the tenryuubito.
He clearly has no freaking idea who the tenryiuubito are

Sammsy

@Super:

I'm tired of people using that as a argument.
Have you even read this passage ?

The page before Luffy thought the dog was the tenryuubito.
He clearly has no freaking idea who the tenryiuubito are

thats not necessarily true. he may have seen a tenryuubito, but hadn't heard that they were called tenryuubito

but so far from the flashback we aren't even sure if luffy/ace were told who killed sabo, just htat he died, and also luffy has clearly not seen the tenryuubito yet in the flashback so as of now that "its them" means nothing more than just seeing them.

Urouge

Well, count me with the group that thinks Sabo is still alive. The death just didn't seem powerful enough to me. I have higher expectations of Oda than that. Kuina's may have been worse, but I thought we were being lied to about what happened then. There'd have to be worthwhile circumstances for him to not be able to contact Ace or Luffy yet, though. The only idea that has made sense to me so far is him being a slave.

The one thing I really want to bring up in this thread is Vivi's flashback of Wapol in Mariejoa. Based on her age back then, here, it should be close to when this current flashback happened, chronologically. For Dragon to be presented to the World Government as a legitimate threat at that time, I feel like this flashback is the ideal time for him to make his presence known to the world. He could even go so far as to assault the world noble.

EDIT:
@Stephen's:

Dalton: The princess of Alabasta is only 10 years old (chapter 142)

herr_sebbe

Quotes of that standard are not valid for arguments unless they are in Japanese.

And of course Sabo is alive. His setup was way too great for him to just die in a minor explosion with no one but Dogura around to see… :S

mickgreen58

I will admit, the theory that Sabo faked is own death is bizarre and very unlikely.

The most plausible explanation would be that he survived the wreckage and drifted to shore.

UsoppSpell

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Yeah, really.

I don't see the silver medalists getting huge stand alone arcs(especially not each) but imo will most likely tie in to the replacement shichibukai.

I can bank on Akainu's fate being a critical part in the story and the other two are up in the air. BB's final villain so he has his spot. What about Garp/Sengoku exactly? After this war all I can expect is a lil more expansion on Sengoku's DF and then he loses/dies. Garp might die and have a last stand, might be around rehashing old memories til the end.

I don't see why Oda couldn't give Sabo a spot on that list of involving and resolving certain character's fates or he could be tied in to one of the already existing characters on the list in some arc. Same goes for the SN, I don't see them each having their own arc.

I'm not at all worried about the time it'll take to address these things. It's really not a good point as to why Sabo can't be added to that list. Just look at it, if anything Oda's continuing to add to it.

Did I say that I thought Sabo was dead? That is not what I meant at all. I said I´ll consider him dead for now and allow myself to be surprised later. My post is of indifference and of general criticism of people making wild guesses and summoning up some of that logic that is actually more like I WANNA DIS.

But rest assured I wasn´t using the whole arc thing as an argument in favour or against anything, because that would be slightly retarded, in that I agree. And yes Oda keeps adding things, but I fear that it may soon suffer from the Lost syndrome. And an ending filled with questions due to too many loose ends would piss me off.

@Akumu:

For the first part directed at Zik:
I believe I have made some good cases as to why he is alive. If you do not think so, please tell me why.
BEcause, I can say the same about all the Sabo is dead supporters: where are your conclusive points. All you have is an explosion (and those are known to NOT kill people in this manga) and a hat.
Oda made this ambiguous on purpose. He also took a break right afternthis chapter on purpose.

Now to the part directed at me: You honestly don't think that be awesome?
I can actually say I expect something along those lines to happen in this manga, be it at the end, whatever, we all know Luffy will eventually stand against the World Government and Dragon will be right there by his side.

Zeff begs to differ.

Same as above. I don´t think either side has made convincing arguments as to wether he is dead or alive, and frankly, there isn´t enough of a precedent so as to make an educated guess, especially now that people start dying in the present, and the special circumstance of it being the main character´s flashback. This last thing especially makes people want more out of an arc than it sometimes offers. I like this arc because of what it tells us about the mystery of Luffy and because I´m very interested in the point Oda is trying to make about when people get stronger in OP, and what conclusions they reach to do so.

There was some general retardedness, especially in the form of Sage, who till now astounds me with his backwards logic, and remains the only person in this forum who can annoy me, but all in all most people, including Zik, make generally sound arguments based on a panel with an eye and very little information. It´s not to say that they´re right or wrong, it´s just too little information.

I hope I made myself clear.
I know this is a forum to debate these things. I just don´t feel very strongly in either direction. As I said, indifference. Read 45 Dunce´s posts as they are the perfect example of how I feel about this.

mickgreen58

@Urouge:

Well, count me with the group that thinks Sabo is still alive. The death just didn't seem powerful enough to me. I have higher expectations of Oda than that. Kuina's may have been worse, but I thought we were being lied to about what happened then.

The one thing I really want to bring up in this thread is Vivi's flashback of Wapol in Mariejoa. Based on her age back then, here, it should be close to when this current flashback happened, chronologically. For Dragon to be presented to the World Government as a legitimate threat at that time, I feel like this flashback is the ideal time for him to make his presence known to the world. He could even go so far as to assault the world noble.

This is an outstanding observation.

At this point, it doesn't appear that an Admiral is escorting Saint Jalmack, so it would be prime opportunity for Dragon to attack a World Noble. Dragon is also accompanied by Ivan-san and Bartholomew Kuma, so it would appear that he has the support he needs, if he decided to move against the Celestial Dragon.

Unfortunately, this theory is a little hurt by the fact that at the end of the chapter, Saint Jalmack had already disembarked from the ship and Dragon has already left. Also, it would be a stretch to believe that Dragon would risk being captured for Sabo's sake.

What I have always wondered about Dragon is did his bounty increase very steadily as he took over islands or was there a singular event that put him in the crosshairs of the World Government.

isrnick

@Akumu:

The point is he'd meet up with them both when they're all pirates.
The brothers would all be back together. It makes sense that they'd be together.

For gods sake, why exactly he would only meet them when they ALL are pirates?!?! When will you realize this is something you have made up?

Read Sabo's letter again, he don't even mention Ace and Luffy becoming pirates, he just says that they will meet again somewhere in the world.

If Sabo just didn't want to go back to Goa Kingdom, he simply could go after Ace the moment he found out that he wasn't on that island anymore, he certainly would have missed him and would have wanted to meet him again as soon as possible, there is no need to wait till Luffy get out too… He meets Ace, then he meets Luffy years latter, and then they all meet together, and then they meet again as many times they want...

@Akumu:

If you're going to fake your own death, YOU'RE GOING TO FAKE YOUR OWN DEATH. What's the quickest way to screw that up, letting people know you're alive! Even if they're his brothers if he wants to be truely free, even they have to believe he is dead.

He's running away from his parents who are nobles of a random island of east blue, he isn't running away of some devious, giant and powerful organization with ramifications around the world, who would do anything in their power to find him anywhere in the world, and bring him back… In fact his parents probably would just leave him be, and completely forget about him, after all they still have Stelly their perfect son...

So why the hell he would need to make sure that even the people he loves think he is dead? Why let them morn his death? That would just be cruel, and definitely isn't something that suits Sabo's personality.

@Akumu:

Seriously? If Sabo's going to go sailing off to become a pirate all on his own, he's definitely going to have some sailing and navigating skills.
And yes, sailing at night is so much more dangerous than leaving when there's a coast full of people watching you and a WG ship heading your way.

Some sailing and navigating skills isn't enough, you can learn to manage the ship, but you have to have experience to know and understand the sea. The discussion over this will never end…

@Akumu:

Alright, then where's the point of introducing the tenryuubito into the story if their only purpose was to shoot Sabo's ship?
Where's the point of hiding the king's face if the flashback is over?

Those things, especially hiding the king's face point to this flashback not being over yet, which I believe gives Sabo a greater chance of being alive.

The tenryuubito may have finished his role already, and I suspect that the king's face will be kept secret to be revealed afterwards in another story.

But the reason the flashback certainly isn't over yet is because we still are gonna see the scene where Ace and Luffy make the promise to live without any regrets, to live the way they want to live, freer than anyone else:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/549/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/549/19/

Urouge

@mickgreen58:

This is an outstanding observation.

At this point, it doesn't appear that an Admiral is escorting Saint Jalmack, so it would be prime opportunity for Dragon to attack a World Noble. Dragon is also accompanied by Ivan-san and Bartholomew Kuma, so it would appear that he has the support he needs, if he decided to move against the Celestial Dragon.

Unfortunately, this theory is a little hurt by the fact that at the end of the chapter, Saint Jalmack had already disembarked from the ship and Dragon has already left. Also, it would be a stretch to believe that Dragon would risk being captured for Sabo's sake.

What I have always wondered about Dragon is did his bounty increase very steadily as he took over islands or was there a singular event that put him in the crosshairs of the World Government.

Thanks, unfortunately finding out that Vivi was already 10 in that flashback makes the idea seem less likely.

As far as motivation, though, I'd think that the burning of trash mountain would be enough for him.

Sammsy

@Urouge:

Thanks, unfortunately finding out that Vivi was already 10 in that flashback makes the idea seem less likely.

As far as motivation, though, I'd think that the burning of trash mountain would be enough for him.

so vivi was 10 in that flashback?

thus it was only 6 years ago then right, cause she is 16

Mr.Ammar

Don't know if someone predicted it, but I think that Dragon saved him, and maybe to join the revolutionary you must cut all of your relationships from the world. That's a good excuse why Sabo didn't contact Luffy or Ace.

quotFirePriestquotHughes

@Mr.Ammar:

Don't know if someone predicted it, but I think that Dragon saved him, and maybe to join the revolutionary you must cut all of your relationships from the world. That's a good excuse why Sabo didn't contact Luffy or Ace.

That does kind of make sense out of that situation.

freedom

@Mr.Ammar:

Don't know if someone predicted it, but I think that Dragon saved him, and maybe to join the revolutionary you must cut all of your relationships from the world. That's a good excuse why Sabo didn't contact Luffy or Ace.

Even if this circumstance is true, it's still a huge stretch.
It means that over the next 7yrs, Sabo made no attempts to contact Ace or Luffy. After Ace became famous over the next 3 yrs, Sabo still made no attempts to contact him. This just doesn't sit well with me.

Either way, I'm leaving the possibility open for Sabo being alive still, but my stance is that Sabo is dead until proven otherwise.

p.s. Dragon had already left. Why would he return only days later? :wassat:

Zik

@Mr.Ammar:

Don't know if someone predicted it, but I think that Dragon saved him, and maybe to join the revolutionary you must cut all of your relationships from the world. That's a good excuse why Sabo didn't contact Luffy or Ace.

Like the Men In Black.

Ivotas

@freedom:

Even if this circumstance is true, it's still a huge stretch.
It means that over the next 7yrs, Sabo made no attempts to contact Ace or Luffy. After Ace became famous over the next 3 yrs, Sabo still made no attempts to contact him. This just doesn't sit well with me.

Isn't that actually what Dragon himself did with Luffy? So it wouldn't surprise me if he'd expect the same determination from his followers.

What however doesn't sit well with me would be Dragon letting someone only a couple of years older than his son join the revolution but leave his own son alone. Even if it is just for Luffy's protection, if he knows of this danger then wouldn't letting in a kid like Sabo be just as dangerous because he would have to take care of him?

isrnick

@Mr.Ammar:

Don't know if someone predicted it, but I think that Dragon saved him, and maybe to join the revolutionary you must cut all of your relationships from the world. That's a good excuse why Sabo didn't contact Luffy or Ace.

I make freedom's words mine… It's possible but it is a too big stretch.

Besides, we have nothing to prove that the revolutionaries have this kind of rule, and even if Dragon did save him, it doesn't sound like the kind of thing Sabo would wanna be involved with, his goal was to become free, so being a soldier in the revolutionary cause, following Dragon's orders, and having to cut his bonds with his loved ones, doesn't sounds like a very free life to me...

Ivotas

@isrnick:

Besides, we have nothing to prove that the revolutionaries have this kind of rule, and even if Dragon did save him, it doesn't sound like the kind of thing Sabo would wanna become involved with, his goal was to become free, so being a soldier in the revolutionary cause, following Dragon's order, and having to cut his bonds with his loved ones, doesn't sounds like a very free life to me…

The thing is though that from Dragon's point of view Sabo might appear like someone who doesn't have any loved ones.

isrnick

@Ivotas:

The thing is though that from Dragon's point of view Sabo might appear like someone who doesn't have any loved ones.

I don't get your point… He would force Sabo to become a revolutionary, and follow their rules, even against his will?

Ivotas

@isrnick:

I don't get your point… He would force Sabo to become a revolutionary, and follow their rules, even against his will?

No, I'm saying that he would rather take care of Sabo if he thinks that Sabo has no please left to go because his family is forcing him to become like them.

Sammsy

@Ivotas:

No, I'm saying that he would rather take care of Sabo if he thinks that Sabo has no please left to go because his family is forcing him to become like them.

and you don't htink that sabo would mention sometime anything abotu ace/luffy and how he used to live with them

Ivotas

@Sammsy:

and you don't htink that sabo would mention sometime anything abotu ace/luffy and how he used to live with them

Wouldn't Dragon have then personally searched for Luffy during the fire then? You know, if he already shows himself before Smoker when a teenage Luffy is only in danger of imprisonment then I'm quite sure that he'd have searched like crazy for id Luffy who's life is in danger.

isrnick

@Ivotas:

No, I'm saying that he would rather take care of Sabo if he thinks that Sabo has no please left to go because his family is forcing him to become like them.

Yes, I know Dragon could want to take care of Sabo because of that, the question here is why Sabo would want stay with the revolutionaries, and subject himself to their rules…

Or are we talking about the amnesia theory again? If that's the case in fine with it, but in this case there is no need to exist any rule about cutting the connection with everybody they know.

Zik

@Ivotas:

What however doesn't sit well with me would be Dragon letting someone only a couple of years older than his son join the revolution but leave his own son alone. Even if it is just for Luffy's protection, if he knows of this danger then wouldn't letting in a kid like Sabo be just as dangerous because he would have to take care of him?

Seems to me Dragon left Luffy to choose the life he wants. Assuming he went through the same grooming by his father to become a marine, Dragon must disagree with that method and at least expect Luffy to choose his own path, not necessarily expecting him to be anybody important tho.

He looked pleased and basically said it when he found out he was a pirate and apparently doesn't want him to be a revolutionary.

The difference with Sabo is he obviously must've wanted to join after getting the idea of what Dragon and the revolutionaries set out to do, plus Dragon already got a little bit of Sabo's sentiments on nobles/the world. So they probably have the same desires and idealistic views or maybe he got screwed over and trapped by the ambiguous offer of "Those who would fight for freedom, get on board!" especially when in a life threatening situation lol.

Ivotas

@isrnick:

Yes, I know Dragon could want to take care of Sabo because of that, the question here is why Sabo would want stay with the revolutionaries, and subject himself to their rules…

Perhaps because he would do it for a cause? Kinda like some of the Strawhat's subjected themselves to discipline in kid stage already in order to achieve their goals.

Sammsy

@Ivotas:

Wouldn't Dragon have then personally searched for Luffy during the fire then? You know, if he already shows himself before Smoker when a teenage Luffy is only in danger of imprisonment then I'm quite sure that he'd have searched like crazy for id Luffy who's life is in danger.

did sabo mention luffy and ace in the fire?

but then is dragon then just assuming that they are dead or what? remember sabo left this letter a couple days after he met dragon.

isrnick

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

The difference with Sabo is he obviously must've wanted to join after getting the idea of what Dragon and the revolutionaries set out to do, plus Dragon already got a little bit of Sabo's sentiments on nobles/the world. So they probably have the same desires and idealistic views or maybe he got screwed over and trapped by the ambiguous offer of "Those who would fight for freedom, get on board!" especially when in a life threatening situation lol.

@Ivotas:

Perhaps because he would do it for a cause? Kinda like some of the Strawhat's subjected themselves to discipline in kid stage already in order to achieve their goals.

And there enters my previous answer: "it doesn't sound like the kind of thing Sabo would wanna be involved with, his goal was to become free, so being a soldier in the revolutionary cause, following Dragon's orders, and having to cut his bonds with his loved ones, doesn't sounds like a very free life to me…"

He dreamed about becoming free, not about to freeing the world, he even promised to his brothers that he would become a strong pirate freer than any other. Another broken promise?

Which is almost certainly the reason why Ace and Luffy also are gonna make the same promise in the next chapter, so that they can achieve Sabo's dream in his place.

Zik

@isrnick:

And there enters my previous answer: "it doesn't sound like the kind of thing Sabo would wanna be involved with, his goal was to become free, so being a soldier in the revolutionary cause, following Dragon's orders, and having to cut his bonds with his loved ones, doesn't sounds like a very free life to me…"

Maybe he grew up and changed his mind about how he wanted to be free and possibly wanted other disadvantaged ppl to be free as well.

He dreamed about becoming free, not about to freeing the world, he even promised to his brothers that he would become a strong pirate freer than any other. Another broken promise?

Which is almost certainly the reason why Ace and Luffy also are gonna make the same promise in the next chapter, so that they can achieve Sabo's dream in his place.

His dream may have become two fold at that point. He asked himself "what exactly is freedom?" when he set sail, he may have later asked himself what is his freedom worth if only he has it.

I do see your point tho.

mrkaizoku

I love the idea that Dragon is some draconian slave owner, who won't let anyone under his command do anything without his say so. You guys do understand the huge flaw in that logic right?

Why would Sabo be with Dragon? Dragon left town the night of the fire. How could he have saved Sabo? I tend to trust Dogura's words. He did witness the entire exchange afterall, and gave us his first hand testimony of the events. I ask again, Why exactly would Dogura lie about Sabo's death? What does he gain from that?

Whitebert

No dead body shown = no evidence of death. Especially in one piece.

And i hope that flashback will be over soon, somehow i just can't get used to those oversized-ego, foulmouthy brats.

Sammsy

@Whitebert:

No dead body shown = no evidence of death. Especially in one piece.

And i hope that flashback will be over soon, somehow i just can't get used to those oversized-ego, foulmouthy brats.

how come that is such a big belief used in sabo's case but the big ol'

People always die in flashbacks

is being ignored big time

edit: and besides, who has supposedly died in one piece. i don't recall any ambiguous deaths in one piece

Whitebert

The deaths in flashbacks i remember have not been so vaguely shown like sabos now (arlong shooting bellemere, saul being frozen), add the usual "people-survive-the-most-hilarious-shit" element and you see where my scepticism comes from. Case of "Pellitis" if you want to say so. :p

The only case of a vague death i remember is that girl from zoros dojo, and every now and then people still debate that lol.

Edit: Besides i wouldn't quite get the point of the whole flashback and the introducing of sabo if he'd be killed off a few chaps later. This whole thing screams "comeback" to me.