Chapter 588 "Sabo's Ocean" Discussion

[I survived the buster call]

@isrnick:

And there enters my previous answer: "it doesn't sound like the kind of thing Sabo would wanna be involved with, his goal was to become free, so being a soldier in the revolutionary cause, following Dragon's orders, and having to cut his bonds with his loved ones, doesn't sounds like a very free life to me…"

He dreamed about becoming free, not about to freeing the world, he even promised to his brothers that he would become a strong pirate freer than any other. Another broken promise?

Which is almost certainly the reason why Ace and Luffy also are gonna make the same promise in the next chapter, so that they can achieve Sabo's dream in his place.

Ok. We cannot know, of course. I am in the camp that says we wait and see, because its so ambiguous there's no way to know at this time. At this point, answering any of these questions require a certain amount of speculation and fanfic writing.

So–delving into that realm, If Dragon did take Sabo in order to give him, as a child, somewhere to go and be safe and protected, then it's possible that he didn't expect or ask Sabo to join at that time, just took him where ever there was a safe place (just as he did with the other people, some of whom were children) that he saved from the fire. If that were the case, in order to protect everyone, still, contact could have been forbidden, and over time Sabo may have grown to desire to be part of the revolution.

As a child, Sabo have no chance to see any altrernative to the rotten life of a noble other than running away to be free--as an older teen/young adult he may have seen the value of fighting the system to help others achieve freedom. Seriously, it would be weird for a child of 10, in most cases, to have settled on what he wants for the rest of his life--especially with so little life experience. (Obviously Luffy has to be the exception since he's special.)

[Mr.Ammar]

Why would Sabo be with Dragon? Dragon left town the night of the fire. How could he have saved Sabo? I tend to trust Dogura's words. He did witness the entire exchange afterall, and gave us his first hand testimony of the events. I ask again, Why exactly would Dogura lie about Sabo's death? What does he gain from that?

lots of possibilities can occure without Dogura's witnessing. And I do belive that Dragon is still in the town, what did he come for in the first place? to recruit some poor people? there were preparations, but for what?

and

His dream may have become two fold at that point. He asked himself "what exactly is freedom?" when he set sail, he may have later asked himself what is his freedom worth if only he has it.

This.

[Zik]

Who said Dogura was lying? Especially when the theory revolves around everyone believing Sabo is dead when he isn't.

If I see someone go in to a bedroom and you ask me where they went and say in the bedroom and then you go in there or wait by the bedroom to wait til they come out only to realize they're not in there how I could be a liar when that's what I saw happen and nobody saw the person leave?

[isrnick]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Maybe he grew up and changed his mind about how he wanted to be free and possibly wanted other disadvantaged ppl to be free as well.

His dream may have become two fold at that point. He asked himself "what exactly is freedom?" when he set sail, he may have later asked himself what is his freedom worth if only he has it.

I do see your point tho.

@I:

Ok. We cannot know, of course. I am in the camp that says we wait and see, because its so ambiguous there's no way to know at this time. At this point, answering any of these questions require a certain amount of speculation and fanfic writing.

So–delving into that realm, If Dragon did take Sabo in order to give him, as a child, somewhere to go and be safe and protected, then it's possible that he didn't expect or ask Sabo to join at that time, just took him where ever there was a safe place (just as he did with the other people, some of whom were children) that he saved from the fire. If that were the case, in order to protect everyone, still, contact could have been forbidden, and over time Sabo may have grown to desire to be part of the revolution.

As a child, Sabo have no chance to see any altrernative to the rotten life of a noble other than running away to be free--as an older teen/young adult he may have seen the value of fighting the system to help others achieve freedom. Seriously, it would be weird for a child of 10, in most cases, to have settled on what he wants for the rest of his life--especially with so little life experience. (Obviously Luffy has to be the exception since he's special.)

So, basically supposing that Dragon rescued Sabo, and that Sabo remembers everything about his brothers, lets see what we have:

• Sabo promised to his brothers that he would become a strong pirate freer than anyone, and that they all would meet again someday somewhere in the world.

• But when he was saved by Dragon he discovered a new dream: Not just to be free, but also to set the whole world free.

• So he joined the revolutionaries, breaking his promise to become a pirate.

• And also broke his promise to be freer than anyone, because he also gave up part of his freedom to become a soldier fighting for the cause. (Or changed mind about how he wanted to be free…)

• And he abandoned the connection with his brothers, because the revolutionaries rules say he must do it. So he didn't ever contact his brothers again, letting they think he was dead, and letting they suffer and morn his death (and even make a promise to keep his promises and achieve his dream... Or should I say the old version of his dream?), even though he wasn't dead.

• Then Ace died, and as consequence he also broke the promise that they all would meet again someday somewhere in the world.

So he basically broke all his promises (wait, he can at least have become strong), but hey now he is fighting to free the world so everything is all right... (What the fu**!!!!????)

Even more, now that everything is fu**ed up because Ace is dead, he shows up alive...

(And to think that Sabo was such a cool guy when he was little...)

[tigerlilly]

Am I the only one who got a tiny little fangasm from the "Roger even destroyed entire countries and armies for his friends" line? If Luffy keeps walking in Roger's footsteps, I'm feeling some badass foreshadowing here, guys.

[Ivotas]

@isrnick:

And there enters my previous answer: "it doesn't sound like the kind of thing Sabo would wanna be involved with, his goal was to become free, so being a soldier in the revolutionary cause, following Dragon's orders, and having to cut his bonds with his loved ones, doesn't sounds like a very free life to me…"

He dreamed about becoming free, not about to freeing the world, he even promised to his brothers that he would become a strong pirate freer than any other. Another broken promise?

Ever heard of the "doing what must be done" concept? He more than any other kid has seen directly how corrupted the regular nobles are already. And now he experienced first hand how corrupted the Celestial Dragon's are. They shot an innocent little boy on sea (and no him having a pirate flag is not an excuse because he still is just a kid). He might just aswell fight the good fight to free the world of such corruption so that his brothers don't encounter such a fate on sea.

Zoro also never thought that he would become a pirate on his quest for worlds strongest pirate but here he is. All I'm saying that there are ways to combine his desire for freedom and the revolution.

[Zik]

@isrnick:

Sarcasm

Yeah, except for the parts I never said or agreed to.

And lets be serious Sabo is a better character than Ace.

[Sammsy]

you are correct, there are more letters in sabo than in ace, it is indeed a bigger word

[JERK DISEASE]

If you think changing goals and motivations is bad or "breaking a promise" you are an official babby who has not lived yet.

[I survived the buster call]

Ok, calm down and repeat after me. "It is ok for others to have a different opinion than I do."

I keep reading through the letter, and for what it's worth, and it may be admittedly little, at least in this particular translation, the word "promise" never appears. http://www.mangastream.com/read/one_piece/73205842/19
The way I read it, he wants to do those things; he plans to do those things; but he did not promise to make them happen at the cost of life and limb, no matter what else happens or what other important things may arise in the meantime. And I cannot understand that… Good golly, we have already seen how unforgiving Ace and Luffy are when others don't follow through... oh. No. We haven't. In fact we've seen quite the opposite.

Not to mention, Ace and Luffy are hardly very old when Ace dies. While there was 10 years since their last meeting, not all of them were when they were old enough to make too many choices for themselves if there were adults around taking responsibility. If he indeed went with the revolutionaries, and was there for some time growing up, I see no reason for him to assume there was a need to rush to meet them if he felt that what he was doing was really vitally important and that they would understand why he made the choices he did.

@mrkaizoku:

I love the idea that Dragon is some draconian slave owner, who won't let anyone under his command do anything without his say so. You guys do understand the huge flaw in that logic right?

Why would Sabo be with Dragon? Dragon left town the night of the fire. How could he have saved Sabo? I tend to trust Dogura's words. He did witness the entire exchange afterall, and gave us his first hand testimony of the events. I ask again, Why exactly would Dogura lie about Sabo's death? What does he gain from that?

Dogura was on the shore. The smoke and etc that accompanied what happened to Sabo's boat would no doubt make it hard to see exactly what was happening. I'm sure he was positive he saw Sabo die–I agree, why would he lie?, it's just that I don't believe he had the ability to be absolutely sure, and I think he hurried back too quickly to stay and make sure.

Who said Dragon was being all draconian? Suggesting the common sense approach of keeping the safety of your people in a revolutionary army against a WG like the one in OP world paramount to other considerations is hardly acting like a slave owner. Loose lips sink ships, and all that. However, I do see that if the revolution had as extensive a network of intelligence as they seemed to, there should have been a way to get a message out. I see your point here. Don't know the answer and can't think of a good reason (not that Oda always explains everything), but I'm still unconvinced of the absolute surety of Sabo's demise because of the way it was presented thus far. That could change next chapter.

We will find out what happened to Sabo definitively when we find out. Until then it's fair game for speculation.

[JERK DISEASE]

@I:

Ok, calm down and repeat after me. "It is ok for others to have a different opinion than I do."

Ok calm down and repeat after me "I'm an ineffectual nobody white noise poster with a baffling name, and no one who matters will listen to what I try to say."

[Deicide]

@JERK:

Ok calm down and repeat after me "I'm an ineffectual nobody white noise poster with a baffling name, and no one who matters will listen to what I try to say."

Do you realize what you just did?

[Retsudo]

White noise poster?

[Sammsy]

its what they say to someone they want to discredit their reputation in order to win an argument.

its a move politicians do all the time, make the other person look bad and people will ignore what they say regardless of how good/correct it may be.

its the lowest form of argument.

[Deicide]

@Sammsy:

its what they say to someone they want to discredit their reputation in order to win an argument.

its a move politicians do all the time, make the other person look bad and people will ignore what they say regardless of how good/correct it may be.

its the lowest form of argument.

It's also called Chewbacca Defense.

[Mr.Ammar]

@Deicide:

Do you realize what you just did?

he posted a post I think :ninja:

[JERK DISEASE]

White Noise Poster [Wite Noize Pose-ter]

-noun
A message boards inhabitant whose every post is largely unrecognizable out of the whole, and adds little but post counts and visual space to the forum. Either due to being dull or simply unremarkable.

Origin:
2003: The Internet

@the:

its what they say to someone they want to discredit their reputation in order to win an argument.

its a move politicians do all the time, make the other person look bad and people will ignore what they say regardless of how good/correct it may be.

its the lowest form of argument.

That's an "ad hominem" or "poisoning the well". Niether of which I've done here.
The first is simply saying "Position A posited by Person A is untrue because of [unrelated fact or hearsay] of Person A".

In place of telling him no one cares, I simply informed him quite truthfully that he does not have the pull as a new unknown poster to change or effect the larger trends of an established community.
But I did it jerkingly and sarcastingly.

@Deicide:

It's also called Chewbacca Defense.

Do you realize what you just did?

[Retsudo]

Ah I see.

Thanks for the info.

[Krisboo9]

> Ok calm down and repeat after me "I'm an ineffectual nobody white noise poster with a baffling name, and no one who matters will listen to what I try to say."

Weird, but actually you LISTENED and even ANSWERED to this forum poster, you said no one who matters will listen to him. Weird O_O

Also, if you think that offending people will make you win an argument in a discussion, then you have several mental problems.

On Topic: I also think sabo is alive, this flashback seems just different in many ways than others…

[Deicide]

@JERK:

Do you realize what you just did?

I posted a funny internet site. Sue me. :ninja:

[JERK DISEASE]

@Krisboo9:

Weird, but actually you LISTENED and even ANSWERED to this forum poster, you said no one who matters will listen to him. Weird O_O

I didn't listen because I sure as shit won't change my ways. Which is what listening and his post are actually about. Getting a response, any response, is not.

Also, if you think that offending people will make you win an argument in a discussion, then you have several mental problems.

I could say I vive la difference, but I'll just snicker at the irony contained here.

[I survived the buster call]

LOL. Oh no. I've been reprimanded "jerkingly and sarcastingly" (sic). How ever will I find the will to go on?

[JERK DISEASE]

@I:

LOL. Oh no. I've been reprimanded "jerkingly and sarcastingly" (sic). How ever will I find the will to go on?

No actually that's not the problem here, the problem is you'll need to get used to it.

[Redspear]

Very good chapter! Im impressed

[Retsudo]

Yeah, I'm on the side of the fence that has Sabo still being alive.

[HaxeyeMihawk]

@mickgreen58:

This is an outstanding observation.

At this point, it doesn't appear that an Admiral is escorting Saint Jalmack, so it would be prime opportunity for Dragon to attack a World Noble. Dragon is also accompanied by Ivan-san and Bartholomew Kuma, so it would appear that he has the support he needs, if he decided to move against the Celestial Dragon.

Unfortunately, this theory is a little hurt by the fact that at the end of the chapter, Saint Jalmack had already disembarked from the ship and Dragon has already left. Also, it would be a stretch to believe that Dragon would risk being captured for Sabo's sake.

What I have always wondered about Dragon is did his bounty increase very steadily as he took over islands or was there a singular event that put him in the crosshairs of the World Government.

@Urouge:

Thanks, unfortunately finding out that Vivi was already 10 in that flashback makes the idea seem less likely.

As far as motivation, though, I'd think that the burning of trash mountain would be enough for him.

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Look above, I'm not on my computer so I had to reply to that post like three times before I could get it to be posted because I kept having to relogin.

EDIT: At your response above about Dragon: You ignored the fact that Dragon wasn't brought up as a potential threat until 5-6 years before the current time in the story, this flashback is 10 years ago, and I figured that attacking a Tenryuubito ceremony would elevate him as a notable threat, so I'm guessing that he didn't. I'd elaborate more but I have to go. Basically all indications are that he wasn't noticed as a threat until years after this flashback, yet attacking a Tenryuubito is something that would obviously garner attention and acknowledgement as a threat.

Brought this up earlier in the Sabo discussion as a reason that I didn't think Dragon hung around after the fire in order to assault the ceremony, so I also think that this eliminates Dragon as Sabo's savior because he left days ago and should be long gone by now.

[o-chan]

Very nice chapter.
I didn't read through EVERY post but I think the issue of Sabo really being dead can go either way and I can accept either outcome.

Theory 1: If I don't see a body, then the character's not dead. But knowing Oda we won't know for possibly hundreds of chapters so leading into…

Theory 2: He's dead. But I do find a weird irony in that he "died" in the same chapter that DanDan made her little speech about dying and having an effect on the world...

Either way it doesn't downplay the tragedy at hand and how it affected Ace and Luffy.

O-chan

[toiim]

This flashback is not over, and I will quickly explain why.

LUFFY IS BOUNDLESSLY OPTOMISTIC.

After this happened in his childhood, how could he be? Oda still needs to explain/show what happened to Luffy to make him how he is today.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet and I'd like to hear your opinions.

[Captain Hypersock]

Nah, I say it's over.

This chapter ends with Ace on the cliff, right? I say next chapter, Luffy shows up, and Ace tells him that they need to live a life without regrets. End.

At least, that's how I think it'll turn out.

[AGOG]

@toiim:

This flashback is not over, and I will quickly explain why.

LUFFY IS BOUNDLESSLY OPTOMISTIC.

After this happened in his childhood, how could he be? Oda still needs to explain/show what happened to Luffy to make him how he is today.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet and I'd like to hear your opinions.

Sanji explained it during Garp's visit… It was the survival Garp put him through.

[Akumu]

Well, there's the fact that Oda made a point to not show us the king's face, so I don't think it's over yet. Oda's planning something big…

[AGOG]

@Akumu:

Well, there's the fact that Oda made a point to not show us the king's face, so I don't think it's over yet. Oda's planning something big…

We didn't see Admiral Kong, or the Warden of Impel Down twenty years ago– what's your point?

[Akumu]

@isrnick:

For gods sake, why exactly he would only meet them when they ALL are pirates?!?! When will you realize this is something you have made up?

Read Sabo's letter again, he don't even mention Ace and Luffy becoming pirates, he just says that they will meet again somewhere in the world.

If Sabo just didn't want to go back to Goa Kingdom, he simply could go after Ace the moment he found out that he wasn't on that island anymore, he certainly would have missed him and would have wanted to meet him again as soon as possible, there is no need to wait till Luffy get out too… He meets Ace, then he meets Luffy years latter, and then they all meet together, and then they meet again as many times they want...

Dude, I've already quoted this part. He says "Let's meet again on the ocean." Since thay have all vowed to become pirates, it's an easy inference that he means when they're all pirates.
And once again he says ALL which I assume means he wants all three of them to meet up together, not one at a time.

I have said this same thing over and over and you still have not given me any reason not to.

He's running away from his parents who are nobles of a random island of east blue, he isn't running away of some devious, giant and powerful organization with ramifications around the world, who would do anything in their power to find him anywhere in the world, and bring him back… In fact his parents probably would just leave him be, and completely forget about him, after all they still have Stelly their perfect son...

So why the hell he would need to make sure that even the people he loves think he is dead? Why let them morn his death? That would just be cruel, and definitely isn't something that suits Sabo's personality.

Seriously. When someone fakes their own death if they don't do it fully then there's a chance they'll be got. Sure Sabo tells Luffy and Ace, maybe Luffy screws up and tells Dadan and the gang. Next thing you know, a slip of the tounge while in high town and Sabo's father knows he's alive.
You can't take any risks.
Now, just as a disclaimer: I do not fully support this theory, this is just one of the many that could be possible and I'm just arguing a side of it.

Some sailing and navigating skills isn't enough, you can learn to manage the ship, but you have to have experience to know and understand the sea. The discussion over this will never end…

Luffy managed with no sailing and navigating experience and a barrel.

The tenryuubito may have finished his role already, and I suspect that the king's face will be kept secret to be revealed afterwards in another story.

But the reason the flashback certainly isn't over yet is because we still are gonna see the scene where Ace and Luffy make the promise to live without any regrets, to live the way they want to live, freer than anyone else:

Like I said, what's the point of having the tenryuubito come all the way out to Goa Kingdom if their only role was to shoot Sabo's ship? That's a waste of potential, and wasting potential is not something Oda does often, if ever.

So are you suggesting we're going to get another Luffy flash abck when you say "I suspect that the king's face will be kept secret to be revealed afterwards in another story"
That's just a waste of chapters. Now I may be wrong, but we've never gotten more than one long flashback for each character, so why would Oda do two for Luffy when there are so many loose ends he hasn't tied up in this one. That is why this flashback is not over yet, because I do not believe Oda has showed us his hand yet.

@freedom:

p.s. Dragon had already left. Why would he return only days later? :wassat:

@HaxeyeMihawk:

Brought this up earlier in the Sabo discussion as a reason that I didn't think Dragon hung around after the fire in order to assault the ceremony, so I also think that this eliminates Dragon as Sabo's savior because he left days ago and should be long gone by now.

Seriously, where do you people see Dragon leave?
This is the last page we see him in this flashback and his ship is still docked at Trash Mountain; hell, he's still speaking to all the "filth"
There is no indication that he ever left the Goa Kingdom.

–--
Oh, and JERK DIESEASE, lay off I survived the buster call a bit. He had an awesome post about Sabo being Schroedinger's cat. For a comparison that geeky he deserves respect.

[Zik]

I think the arrival of the world noble and what the events there will be expanded on.
@AGOG:

Sanji explained it during Garp's visit… It was the survival Garp put him through.

Garp's training made Luffy optimistic?

[AGOG]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

I think the arrival of the world noble and what the events there will be expanded on.

Garp's training made Luffy optimistic?

Sanji's comment hints so.

[Zik]

@AGOG:

Sanji's comment hints so.

What was the comment?

[Akumu]

@AGOG:

We didn't see Admiral Kong, or the Warden of Impel Down twenty years ago– what's your point?

Neither of those people are really that pertinent to the story, at least not so much as the king. He has appeared several times and Oda has not shown his face. This is something he's obviously doing on purpose so there has to be a reason.

@AGOG:

Sanji's comment hints so.

Nah, Sanji says: "I think I just saw where Luffy got his amazing ability to pull through anything…"

[AGOG]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

What was the comment?

Depends entirely on how one would define optimism…
@Akumu:

Neither of those people are really that pertinent to the story, at least not so much as the king. He has appeared several times and Oda has not shown his face. This is something he's obviously doing on purpose so there has to be a reason.

They are important: strong admiral, and strong head warden– might be Elder Star members now.

Nah, Sanji says: "I think I just saw where Luffy got his amazing ability to pull through anything…"

Amazing ability to pull through anything hints strong optimism.

[isrnick]

@JERK:

If you think changing goals and motivations is bad or "breaking a promise" you are an official babby who has not lived yet.

Yeah, I'm really too old for that, in fact I don't think that, not when I'm talking about real life anyway…

But in the world of One Piece (and in most of the Shonen mangas) keeping your word and fighting for your dreams till the end, is one of the most important things there is, and breaking it is like making one of the biggest sins someone could do against himself and those close to him, especially to the good guys of the story, it's next to betraying a friend (just think what would mean if Luffy suddenly decided to change his dream without even having achieved it). So I just judge a character's behavior according to the story rules.

[Zik]

@AGOG:

Depends entirely on how one would define optimism…

I just asked what the comment was and ppl shouldn't have multiple differing definitions for optimism especially since most would be irrelevant.

I think the OP has made it clear what he means by optimism in regards to Luffy and his actions and behavior in this manga.

FTR, it would be "hopefulness and confidence about the future or successful outcome of something; a tendency to take a favorable or hopeful view" not the philosophical one dealing with pessimism and believing all things are positive.

But again what was the comment?

[Akumu]

@AGOG:

They are important: strong admiral, and strong head warden– might be Elder Star members now.

I'll give you those two. Good reasoning. Except that they were probably a lot younger in the flashback and may not look the same as they do whent heyre older, but eh.

However, I don't see Goa's king being one of the Elder Stars.
So I'm just going to assume ODa will continue the flashback on and there'll be some big reveal that'll make us all go WTF?!

Amazing ability to pull through anything hints strong optimism.

Seems to me he's refering to his willpower. You know, like being stabbed through the chest and yet being able to continue on and fight.

EDIT @ ZIK
"I think I just saw where Luffy got his amazing ability to pull through anything…"

[AGOG]

Nah, Sanji says: "I think I just saw where Luffy got his amazing ability to pull through anything…"

This guy is right…

To lazy to recite Steven's translation: the one that is basically there... Or Viz media.

Seems to me he's refering to his willpower. You know, like being stabbed through the chest and yet being able to continue on and fight.

I see… Took it as the "optimism" version.

Yeah, the King is interesting, might even be a "corrupt king" named abalo, if his name hasn't been revealed... Although, I may be wrong here...

[Zik]

I don't think that accounts solely for his optimism nor does it directly address it. Someone could easily think he's talking about perseverance, determination, will to never give up/continually get up after after falling, etc. blah blah.

[AGOG]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

I don't think that accounts solely for his optimism nor does it directly address it. Someone could easily think he's talking about perseverance, determination, will to never give up/continually get up after after falling, etc. blah blah.

Alright… You could take it either way, optimism or not.

[Sammsy]

one last thing going to say about showing Sabo is dead.

Come on guys look at the title of this chapter. It really has a sort of a funeral, memorial type of a title that Oda was giving for Sabo. Its like Oda's way of saying this is the final resting place of Sabo and I(Oda) am going to refer to it as Sabo's sea.

Its like when there is a huge brutal battle and they name the bloody battlefield afterwards something. This was Oda naming whatever the sea was called if had a name as Sabo's Sea now.

[AGOG]

@Sammsy:

one last thing going to say about showing Sabo is dead.

Come on guys look at the title of this chapter. It really has a sort of a funeral, memorial type of a title that Oda was giving for Sabo. Its like Oda's way of saying this is the final resting place of Sabo and I(Oda) am going to refer to it as Sabo's sea.

Its like when there is a huge brutal battle and they name the bloody battlefield afterwards something. This was Oda naming whatever the sea was called if had a name as Sabo's Sea now.

You're expecting an equally cliche ending as those people are expecting cliche upbringings…

Regardless, the whole thing is too cliche for me. I personally don't like the way it will end up, but feel it'd be better if he were to actually have died.

[jues]

Sabo's death(?) was predictable, but still rather powerful story turn. I like it.

[Sammsy]

@jues:

Sabo's death(?) was predictable, but still rather powerful story turn. I like it.

ha thats the thing i find funny. people are saying too predictable, well no shit it was a flashback 110% of people were saying as soon as we saw sabo that he was going to die. Yes 110, people used their alternates and made some just so they could predict he would.

Then a couple chapters later we have half those people saying how cool he is and DON'T want him to die, thus when he does die they are in denial over it and writing the most rediculous fanfiction i have seen to try and write someone out of their death.

some argue that he had too little development to die, while others are arguing that he had too much development to die.

I mean really its simple, its a flashback. We have never seen this sabo before, we have been punched in the gut over and over about Luffy having only one brother in the world and the age old saying of "peopel only die in flashback in one piece" goign into flashback expected who is going to die for our sad flashback and so on. THen we have a tearful chapter where sabo is killed tragically in his innocence and with a sad letter and crying by th ebrothers at the end and yet you are questioning now that he is dead because a 10 year old kid being blown up on a ship with cannon balls and only hat shown remaining isn't enough for you? hell kuina was really strong too and she died falling down stairs.

[toiim]

@Sammsy:

ha thats the thing i find funny. people are saying too predictable, well no shit it was a flashback 110% of people were saying as soon as we saw sabo that he was going to die. Yes 110, people used their alternates and made some just so they could predict he would.

Then a couple chapters later we have half those people saying how cool he is and DON'T want him to die, thus when he does die they are in denial over it and writing the most rediculous fanfiction i have seen to try and write someone out of their death.

some argue that he had too little development to die, while others are arguing that he had too much development to die.

I mean really its simple, its a flashback. We have never seen this sabo before, we have been punched in the gut over and over about Luffy having only one brother in the world and the age old saying of "peopel only die in flashback in one piece" goign into flashback expected who is going to die for our sad flashback and so on. THen we have a tearful chapter where sabo is killed tragically in his innocence and with a sad letter and crying by th ebrothers at the end and yet you are questioning now that he is dead because a 10 year old kid being blown up on a ship with cannon balls and only hat shown remaining isn't enough for you? hell kuina was really strong too and she died falling down stairs.

And Pell survived a nuclear explosion.

[AGOG]

Sabo dying being predictable isn't "bad" and would really only build upon the living, or "had lived" characters.