Chapter 588 "Sabo's Ocean" Discussion

[HaxeyeMihawk]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Maybe Sabo sank in to Davy Jones' locker and became a sea god? ofcourse after overthrowing Davy Jones.

Even though you think he is dead the objectivity is appreciated. For some ppl an explanation like that is just too ridiculous ad bad writing or cliche.

I forgot about Franky too, had CP9 not already accuse him of being Cutty Flam and he had looked really different in the flashback I guess ppl would've been saying Cutty Flam is dead there was now way he could survive being hit by a train and then landing in the sea. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

This is why you don't reference past scenes/scenarios, because equally I could say that Kuina died by falling down a common set of stairs. In other words you stick to the context of these scenes and not argue using other scenes from other situations.

[Demon Rin]

I have to say, I didn't think Oda would kill Ace or Whitebeard. I was wrong there, so I could totally be wrong here, but I Do NOT think Oda faked us out on Sabo's death here.

@Ivotas:

Oh my good, hold the presses. Kuraha drank. That totally proves NOTHING!

Look, I'm not telling you that him blowing himself up with some liquid is 100% true. But it definitely possible so stop acting as if it is an impossible scenario when it clearly is not.

I never said that was impossible, I was just saying that wasn't how I thought it went at all.

[Demon Rin]

This post is deleted!

[No Maam]

Wintergt , this guy is not the king

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4012790/Pictures/OP585-588/op587-3.jpg

[brennen.exe]

Wait, everyone assumes Hiruluk's explosion came from his sake?

[Zik]

@HaxeyeMihawk:

This is why you don't reference past scenes/scenarios, because equally I could say that Kuina died by falling down a common set of stairs. In other words you stick to the context of these scenes and not argue using other scenes from other situations.

It was already established that Kuina was a weak frail little girl void of desire of any life goals. You could've breathed on her and she would've died at that point.

Your point doesn't change much of the approach of the argument. You were actually busy arguing the impossibility of Sabo surviving that event as if the world noble shot him with instant kill poison nuclear bullets and instead of a ship he was on the poorly made raft Luffy tried to escape AL with. Your whole argument up to now has been from a stance as if Sabo's "death" was not ambiguous and that blind belief is rooted to your opinion that the possibility of the alternative is bad writing.

[Demon Rin]

@brennen.exe:

Wait, everyone assumes Hiruluk's explosion came from his sake?

That's apparently how a lot of people saw it.

Glad to know I'm not crazy in seeing it as Sake.

[isrnick]

I can imagine only 2 possible outcomes where Sabo could be alive and still would agree with what we know till now about Ace and Luffy.

First lets clearly point out what can't be denied by a really possible story where Sabo can be alive in the present time:

• Ace and Luffy must never have met Sabo again. Which means that if there was any situation where Sabo could have contacted them in all these years, he would have, so, whatever the story may be, Sabo has to be in a situation where he was completely unable to reach his brothers through any means no matter what (including letters and denden mushi calls).

So, either Sabo was imprisoned/became a slave during all these years, or he had complete amnesia about his whole past…

To me, Sabo becoming a slave or being imprisoned during the best half of his life (the last 10 years), is almost out of question, it would be a too cruel fate specially in his case, taking into account that he had just escaped from his life long imprisonment under his noble heritage, and that he dreamed about finding true freedom somewhere in the world... In fact it would have been better if he had simply died there, at least he wouldn't have to live such a terrible life. So this is possible, but I don't think that Oda will do it (and I also hope he won't).

Which leaves the amnesia theory... In this case, regarded that Sabo have never became famous enough to call attention, or at least that his appearance has changed very VERY much since then, almost anything is possible, even the theories of him being rescued by Dragon and becoming a revolutionary, or becoming a pirate again, hell he could even become a marine, or even become a simple villager in some random and isolated island doing nothing besides living a simple and free life.

In any case I don't think Oda will make him live, in fact I think Oda made this whole flashback about Sabo's history and death, to show Luffy and Ace taking the responsibility to themselves of achieving Sabo's dream of finding freedom, and by doing that they would make Sabo live and find freedom through them. Which also would explain their promise of to live a life freer than anyone, and Luffy's statement that he wants to become the pirate king because he thinks that the pirate king is the freest man in the world.

[Demon Rin]

Yeah, the biggest problem with him being alive is that you have to explain why he NEVER contacted Luffy and Ace at all.

[No Maam]

Uhm how do you contact someone like Ace ? I mean Whitebeard already showed an intense hatred for postal services :ninja:

[Zik]

@Demon:

Yeah, the biggest problem with him being alive is that you have to explain why he NEVER contacted Luffy and Ace at all.

If that's the biggest problem then I'd say it'd be easy for Oda.

[wintergt]

@No:

Wintergt , this guy is not the king

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4012790/Pictures/OP585-588/op587-3.jpg

Yeah I know we only saw the king partially in his bed I believe.

@Demon:

Yeah, the biggest problem with him being alive is that you have to explain why he NEVER contacted Luffy and Ace at all.

Come on that is so not an issue if you know Oda at all.

[Demon Rin]

@No:

Uhm how do you contact someone like Ace ? I mean Whitebeard already showed an intense hatred for postal services :ninja:

Ace Cries after Reading Sabo's Letter
the very next day he becomes Captain of the Spade Pirates
The very next week he's on Whitebeard's ship

Now that makes sense.
Here's how it really happened:

Ace and Luffy spend at least another 7 years in Windmill Village, time in which Sabo could easily contact either of them
Ace Sets out and becomes a Spade Pirate for an unknown amount of time
Ace later ends up on Whitebeard's ship

[SabZ]

@Demon:

Yeah, the biggest problem with him being alive is that you have to explain why he NEVER contacted Luffy and Ace at all.

They didn't have Facebook back then. :ninja:

[wintergt]

@$abZ:

They didn't have Facebook back then. :ninja:

They had Den Den Facebook though.

[Zik]

I remember reading this fanfic about OP and the pirate captain had a denden mushi ipod

LAWLS

[No Maam]

Reminds me why I stay clean of fanfics . :ninja:

[Zik]

@No:

Reminds me why I stay clean of fanfics . :ninja:

It wasn't important in the story but it was just so random how it was added in as his other actions on the ship were being described.

[Akumu]

@Demon:

Ace Cries after Reading Sabo's Letter
the very next day he becomes Captain of the Spade Pirates
The very next week he's on Whitebeard's ship

Now that makes sense.
Here's how it really happened:

Ace and Luffy spend at least another 7 years in Windmill Village, time in which Sabo could easily contact either of them
Ace Sets out and becomes a Spade Pirate for an unknown amount of time
Ace later ends up on Whitebeard's ship

You also have to look at the letter Sabo left for them. It sounded like he wasn't going to contact them until they were all well known pirates out on the seas, then they could reunite together. Luffy just became well known, and at that point Ace was already retraversing the grandline looking for Blackbeard. The odds at him finding them at this point aren't great.
As for him not showing up at the war: Why didn't Dadan show up? You can't use him not showing up to the war as an excuse, as, if he is alive, there's no telling where in the world he is.

Also, we have to remember Sabo knew the Tenryuubito were coming, so why would he foolishly ride out to sea during their arrival? Unless he wanted to fake his own death. That way he could truely live free. That would also mean Ace and Luffy had to believe him dead.

[Yonkou Luffy]

@mickgreen58:

Actually, what is more embarrassing is folks adamantly proclaiming his death when it is very obvious that Oda made his death very open-ended.

I could see the point of the "Sabo is dead and that's that" crowd if Sabo died in a way that was similar to Ace but it was very ambiguous and left very open to interpretation by Oda.

agreed.

this was even more ambiguous than the death of Two-face in TDK.

[Sage]

@mickgreen58:

Great minds think alike lol .

It's just soooo surprising that people are falling for the whole Sabo is dead bit when it obvious Oda left it ambiguous for a reason.

This is Oda we are talking about people, the God Of Mind Fucks! You have to think outside the box sometimes.

Ask yourself why would Oda introduce such an important character, so important that he is considered a brother amongst such high tier characters and then kill him off so tastelessly and ambiguous…it's unlike Oda to do this and be straight forward.

But you got some really hard headed people who refuse to think outside the box because of a floating hat and a wrecked ship...

[Hinscher]

@Akumu:

Maybe because they kicked a bunch of pirate ass? They were incredibly strong, that's why everyone in trash mountain told Porshemy not to mess with them; that's why Dadan knew who Sabo was before meeting him.
They were strong enough to build a reputation as fierce fighters.

fodder pirates, in the weakest sea of east blue

what does ace/sabo remind me of kuina. she beat zoro 100 times, she was beating the adults all the time in the dojo.

and lets see sabo/ace beat one of bluejams guys together. bluejam needed to be beaten by both ace and dadan. adn i bet bluejam was probably captain morgan at best. buggy would have owned the bluejam pirates. i mean hell the big shots of east blue had a few guys above 10 million. the rest way below.

earning a reputation in a garbage pit that is filled with just homeless people that go around and stab each other doesn't make them strong at all. and again how often is it emphasized about how weak the east blue is

but by all means enlighten me and tell me what lvl str you think ace is at when he was 10. would he have beaten buggy? captain morgan? arlong? numbered agents? Krieg? Gin? Cabaji? ect.

[isrnick]

@Akumu:

You also have to look at the letter Sabo left for them. It sounded like he wasn't going to contact them until they were all well known pirates out on the seas, then they could reunite together.

Right… And he would let his brothers think he is dead this whole time just because his letter left in the air some kind of impression sub-intended that he only would meet them when they became famous, so he wouldn't change this for any reason no matter what, just let them suffer and morn over his death till they find out years latter he wasn't dead... :getlost:

And please don't even begin with some kind of "he didn't know that they thought he died" explanation, because there is no way the information about what happened wouldn't eventually reach Ace and Luffy, with all that people on the beach watching while his boat was exploding and sinking, and Sabo isn't dumb to not know that.

@Akumu:

Also, we have to remember Sabo knew the Tenryuubito were coming, so why would he foolishly ride out to sea during their arrival? Unless he wanted to fake his own death. That way he could truely live free. That would also mean Ace and Luffy had to believe him dead.

Because he was only a child and was innocent, and didn't suspect that the Tenryuubito could be even worse than the nobles of his country, probably to him the nobles he knew where the worse the world could possibly have to offer, so anywhere in the world would be a better place than Goa Kingdom…

[Akumu]

@isrnick:

Right… And he would let his brothers think he is dead this whole time just because his letter left in the air some kind of impression sub-intended that he only would meet them when they became famous, so he wouldn't change this for any reason no matter what, just let them suffer and morn over his death till they find out years latter he wasn't dead... :getlost:

You can't refute my point when I address what you're using as a rebuttal in the next bit of my post.Moving on

Because he was only a child and was innocent, and didn't suspect that the Tenryuubito could be even worse than the nobles of his country, probably to him the nobles he knew where the worse the world could possibly have to offer, so anywhere in the world would be a better place than Goa Kingdom…

That doesn't even make sense. If he knew what the nobles of Goa Kindgom were capable of, how does he know they won't shoot him down themselves. Everyone already thinks he's human trash.
Everyone was lined up on the beach, why would he risk botching his "escape" by doing so in front of everyone? What part of that seems logical?

@Hinscher:

fodder pirates, in the weakest sea of east blue

what does ace/sabo remind me of kuina. she beat zoro 100 times, she was beating the adults all the time in the dojo.

and lets see sabo/ace beat one of bluejams guys together. bluejam needed to be beaten by both ace and dadan. adn i bet bluejam was probably captain morgan at best. buggy would have owned the bluejam pirates. i mean hell the big shots of east blue had a few guys above 10 million. the rest way below.

earning a reputation in a garbage pit that is filled with just homeless people that go around and stab each other doesn't make them strong at all. and again how often is it emphasized about how weak the east blue is

but by all means enlighten me and tell me what lvl str you think ace is at when he was 10. would he have beaten buggy? captain morgan? arlong? numbered agents? Krieg? Gin? Cabaji? ect.

Alright, how about all the animals they killed. When we first saw Ace in this flashback he had killed some huge beast.
There's also the fact that they fought 100 times a day constantly training.
They were by no means whatsoever weak. Saying they are would be fucking retarded. Luffy, yes, you could get away with him being weak at this time. But Ace has been living in the jungles and training with Sabo for years. They're ten years old and yet everyone in trashmountain feared them.

Yes, I'll say it, I think Sabo and Ace would have been able to take down Morgan. It probably wouldn't have been easy, but I believe they could have.

[Akumu]

This post is deleted!

[hreinnbeno]

After thinking about it. Wouldn't sabos dad go looking for ace and luffy to find sabo after he had disappeared.

[isrnick]

@Akumu:

You can't refute my point when I address what you're using as a rebuttal in the next bit of my post.Moving on

To what exactly are you referring to? The whole Luffy just became famous and Ace was traveling thing?

It is invalidated by the same answer… It wasn't even specified in the letter something like "lets all meet again only if we all become famous, and only when the 3 of us become famous, never before" (it would even be kinda lame), so what did Sabo do the whole time while Ace was famous already and wasn't hunting Teach?

Or are you talking about the part about why Sabo not showing up in the war?

Yeah, he really could be too far away if he is alive and wouldn't be able to do anything to help... But anyway this doesn't work to corroborate your theory about the letter having some hidden message sub-intended that I was replying to.

@Akumu:

That doesn't even make sense. If he knew what the nobles of Goa Kindgom were capable of, how does he know they won't shoot him down themselves. Everyone already thinks he's human trash.
Everyone was lined up on the beach, why would he risk botching his "escape" by doing so in front of everyone? What part of that seems logical?

The ship he stole was on there on the harbor of the island, where the Teryuunbito were gonna disembark, so he had to pass in front of that beach to reach the open sea… He certainly wouldn't have shown himself in front of all that people if there was an option, he was trying to runaway after all... Again, Sabo wasn't dumb...

They were making a reception to the World Goverment agents, so they weren't exactly gathering cannons on the beach and getting read to shoot any ship who could appear nearby, and by the time someone would get something and try to shoot him he would be out of reach... Besides it wouldn't look welcoming if right when the WG's ship was reaching Goa Kingdom's coast there was someone shooting in their direction, or even shooting some random ship on the coast, it would look like there was some kind of problem happening on the island and they wanted to make a good impression.

And it was the perfect moment for him to escape and not be followed, because there wouldn't be any other ship of Goa Kingdom in the coast of the island, and if someone would try to go after him, by time they got a ship ready to sail and had gone after him he would be too far away.

[Akumu]

@isrnick:

To what exactly are you referring to? The whole Luffy just became famous and Ace was traveling thing?

It is invalidated by the same answer… It wasn't even specified in the letter something like "lets all meet again only if we all become famous, and only when the 3 of us become famous, never before" (it would even be kinda lame), so what did Sabo do the whole time while Ace was famous already and wasn't hunting Teach?

And I quote Sabo: "Where I'm headed… well, somewhere that's not here... And then I'm go to grow stronger and become a pirate. I'm going to become a freer pirate than any other, and meet up with you two somewhere again. We'll meet again someday for sure, out on this wide, free ocean!!"

First, what's freer than being "dead"? Second, I have been refering to the part where he says we'll meet again on the ocean. I'm also assuming that he was going to wait for Ace and Luffy to out on the seas, rather than just meeting up with one of them and then the other. The only way he could know that they had made it to the ocean is when they get bounties. Since Luffy just got his, and Ace was already on the hunt for BB, that doesn't make it easy for Sabo to get them all together.

The ship he stole was on there on the harbor of the island, where the Teryuunbito were gonna disembark, so he had to pass in front of that beach to reach the open sea… He certainly wouldn't have shown himself in front of all that people if there was an option, he was trying to runaway after all... Again, Sabo wasn't dumb...

They were making a reception to the World Goverment agents, so they weren't exactly gathering cannons on the beach and getting read to shoot any ship who could appear nearby, and by the time someone would get something and try to shoot him he would be out of reach... Besides it wouldn't look welcoming if right when the WG's ship was reaching Goa Kingdom's coast there was someone shooting in their direction, or even shooting some random ship on the coast, it would look like there was some kind of problem happening on the island and they wanted to make a good impression.

And it was the perfect moment for him to escape and not be followed, because there wouldn't be any other ship of Goa Kingdom in the coast of the island, and if someone would try to go after him, by time they got a ship ready to sail and had gone after him he would be too far away.

The perfect moment for him to escape would have been in the middle of the night when no one is watching the ocean because everyone's asleep. The absoute worst time to leave ould be when everyone is at the beach and the world nobles are coming. That is, unless you want a lot of people there to see you "die"….

Well too much past this point and we're just going to spit out the same theories over and over again, and Oda's playing games with us by taking a break, so we'll just have to wait two weeks to fins out something more. Until then there is no definate proof for either side, which, I'm sure, is exactly how Oda wanted it.

So until then, as I survived the buster call said, Sabo is Schrodinger's cat. He is both alive and dead until the box is opened.

[Zigee]

i hope in terms of plot development etc, sabo is dead.

[45Dunc]

Dead enough for me.
It'll take some fancy writing to bring him back in a way that doesn't annoy me, seems to me he's played his part.

Has anyone attempted a guess as to what use bringing him back would serve? I'll probably cringe at it regardless.
And even then he's still a chump. If Ace could track down Shanks then Sabo could have at least written a letter, it's not like Ace wasn't in all the papers.

As I said earlier, Meh, time for the New World. We've got bigger fish to fry.

[Zik]

@45°Dunc:

Has anyone attempted a guess as to what use bringing him back would serve?

Catalyst to some amazing saga that ends up tying in to the main plot of the story.

[Akumu]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Catalyst to some amazing saga that ends up tying in to the main plot of the story.

Catalyst to bringing down the Tenryuubito. Luffy already hates them. If Sabo is alive and he learns that the ones responsible for whatever happened to him are the good ol' Celestial Dragons he'll proobably flip a shit. And if Sabo is with Dragon, we may see father and son taking down the world nobles.

Chances of happening, 1 in a million.
It would be insanely awesome though….

[UsoppSpell]

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

Catalyst to some amazing saga that ends up tying in to the main plot of the story.

Really?? I mean, there are no good arguments to tip the balance either way. Every argument I've heard so far are wild rants as to why they justify what they want happening on the only real basis that they want it to happen, with no really conclusive points. At this point I'm content with forgetting him and being surprised, but for now, he's dead to me.

However, do you really see another saga in line involving Sabo? I may be able to see it if Dragon's there, but even then…

Let me see:

Dragon
3 Schichibukais, including BB and his crew
2/3 Yonkous
Garp/Sengoku
3 Admirals
9 Supernovas
The World Government
Silver Medalists

All these are villains or opponents that could fit in a small arc each. EACH. Now add all of the unresolved plot points, Vegapunk, reuniting, flashbacks, etc.

How in the hell are we supposed to see this story finish before Oda dies of old age?

I say let the side characters remain side characters. Oda did a good job in making us not want Sabo to die, either way. For now, for me, that's enough.

@Akumu: it would NOT be awesome. Fanfics rarely are.

[Zik]

@UsoppSpell:

Really??

Yeah, really.

I don't see the silver medalists getting huge stand alone arcs(especially not each) but imo will most likely tie in to the replacement shichibukai.

I can bank on Akainu's fate being a critical part in the story and the other two are up in the air. BB's final villain so he has his spot. What about Garp/Sengoku exactly? After this war all I can expect is a lil more expansion on Sengoku's DF and then he loses/dies. Garp might die and have a last stand, might be around rehashing old memories til the end.

I don't see why Oda couldn't give Sabo a spot on that list of involving and resolving certain character's fates or he could be tied in to one of the already existing characters on the list in some arc. Same goes for the SN, I don't see them each having their own arc.

I'm not at all worried about the time it'll take to address these things. It's really not a good point as to why Sabo can't be added to that list. Just look at it, if anything Oda's continuing to add to it.

[Strategos]

I think we might see Luffy with some badass tatoo of Ace and Sabo.

[Corson D. Burley]

@Demon:

Why is there such a huge debate over whether or not Sabo is dead?…

It's pretty damn obvious he's dead.

The point of Sabo's death was to show Ace and Luffy's bond, Ace was protective of Luffy because Sabo told him to be in the letter. That's Sabo's Part in the plot and he played it perfectly.

Just another Flashback death among the several we've already gotten. Anyone calling "Pell" on this forgets that Pell was main plot, not a flashback. Characters die all the time in flashbacks...

Demon Rin for the win.

Sabo is so dead they need a new word for it.

[Akumu]

@UsoppSpell:

Really?? I mean, there are no good arguments to tip the balance either way. Every argument I've heard so far are wild rants as to why they justify what they want happening on the only real basis that they want it to happen, with no really conclusive points. At this point I'm content with forgetting him and being surprised, but for now, he's dead to me.

@Akumu: it would NOT be awesome. Fanfics rarely are.

For the first part directed at Zik:
I believe I have made some good cases as to why he is alive. If you do not think so, please tell me why.
BEcause, I can say the same about all the Sabo is dead supporters: where are your conclusive points. All you have is an explosion (and those are known to NOT kill people in this manga) and a hat.
Oda made this ambiguous on purpose. He also took a break right afternthis chapter on purpose.

Now to the part directed at me: You honestly don't think that be awesome?
I can actually say I expect something along those lines to happen in this manga, be it at the end, whatever, we all know Luffy will eventually stand against the World Government and Dragon will be right there by his side.

@Demon:

Just another Flashback death among the several we've already gotten. Anyone calling "Pell" on this forgets that Pell was main plot, not a flashback. Characters die all the time in flashbacks…

Zeff begs to differ.

[Corson D. Burley]

What the Hell does Zeff have to do with anything? We've always known he didn't die. To clarify, we saw him in the main story, alive, before there was a flashback. Zeff being alive is a weak argument for Sabo being alive.

[GoustiFruit]

Chances are that someday Dragon will use this story to try to raise the hate in Luffy against the tenryublablas to turn him into a revolutionary. But we know that Luffy won't run.

@Corson D. Burley: your sig makes me think that after the fight of Ace vs Blackburn, we already had the same picture, with only Ace's hat, where Oda was trying to make us think that Ace was possibly dead…

[sgamer82]

I had a thought:

Does Luffy know that Sabo was killed by a Celestial Dragon? Back in Amazon Lily, he told Hancock plain as day he hated them. At the time I assumed he was referring to everything from Shabaody, but is it possible he meant this?

[Kishido]

@sgamer82:

I had a thought:

Does Luffy know that Sabo was killed by a Celestial Dragon? Back in Amazon Lily, he told Hancock plain as day he hated them. At the time I assumed he was referring to everything from Shabaody, but is it possible he meant this?

Not only that… During SA the first time he saw them... He said

"It's them..."

and during EL he said.

"I know my opponent very well"

[sgamer82]

Maybe. But now I think it unlikely. I went over that chapter again, it does look more like Luffy was referring specifically to events on Shabaody. as for the other quotes, I'm sure "I know the opponent" line was specific to the World Government and the danger it posed to Robin. That's what I always got out of it, anyway. The Shabaody line was more like Luffy was confirming they were the nobles Hachi had been talking about.

[mrkaizoku]

Sabo being alive would be cheap.

Oda: "I know you guys are still really sad about Ace dying, so… I made a new brother for Luffy! He's just as cool and strong as Ace and he has a hat too! Well, he did have a hat till it was blown off his head by that miserably weak cannon that took two shots before it could sink a small fishing boat. So please forget about that meaningless Ace guy 'cause we have Sabo now!"

Oh yeah, Sabo can't be alive because Dogura watched him DIE through his BINOCULARS. Why would he lie? What good would that do anyone?

How could you guys get anything but closure out of Sabo's letter to his brothers?

[SabZ]

@KiShiDo:

Not only that… During SA the first time he saw them... He said

"It's them..."

and during EL he said.

"I know my opponent very well"

Maybe he does know. But I would have thought Luffy would have aproached the Celestial Dragon. When Hacchi was shot, Luffy went beserk. Knowing that the Celestial Dragon's killed Sabo, I would have expected a similar heartfelt reaction from Luffy. I'm guessing he doesn't know. Luffy isn't the type to want to know anyway.

[Ryuksgelus]

You people really think he is dead then he has the most underplayed death in the entire series. Yeah he's dead because the camera zoomed into his eye and the ship went boom.

His death serves absolutely no purpose right now. What exactly did some random kid dying and a scene of Ace crying serve to the main plot especially in regards to luffy? If this flashback never happened the story would continue going exactly like it is now. Ace sad about loosing Ace after they basically promised to always be free and help each other except when it comes time to be rivals as pirates.

Finding closure into such a pointless flashback would just be moronic.

[Dark-Abel]

@Ryuksgelus:

You people really think he is dead then he has the most underplayed death in the entire series. Yeah he's dead because the camera zoomed into his eye and the ship went boom.

His death serves absolutely no purpose right now. What exactly did some random kid dying and a scene of Ace crying serve to the main plot especially in regards to luffy? If this flashback never happened the story would continue going exactly like it is now. Ace sad about loosing Ace after they basically promised to always be free and help each other except when it comes time to be rivals as pirates.

Finding closure into such a pointless flashback would just be moronic.

Next chapter Ace will tell Luffy they need to go on and live Sabo's will as there own. Remembering this will help Luffy going on after Ace's dead ;)

[mpz777]

Interesting chapter. Can't wait to see how the end of the arc unfolds. I don't care if Sabo's alive or dead, but I still have a slight feeling he's going to be alive. I pointed this out before in chapter 586 that the revolutionary in Robin's cover story has the feather in the hat thing going on. It's like Sabo's trademark. He's blond too. Knowing how Oda plans things… I just can't let go of this hunch.

@mpz777:

I'm not really sure if this was already pointed out, but I'm too lazy too read the whole thread.

I'm pretty sure this is Sabo. It would make sense given this week's chapter.

[isrnick]

@Akumu:

And I quote Sabo: "Where I'm headed… well, somewhere that's not here... And then I'm go to grow stronger and become a pirate. I'm going to become a freer pirate than any other, and meet up with you two somewhere again. We'll meet again someday for sure, out on this wide, free ocean!!"

First, what's freer than being "dead"? Second, I have been refering to the part where he says we'll meet again on the ocean. I'm also assuming that he was going to wait for Ace and Luffy to out on the seas, rather than just meeting up with one of them and then the other. The only way he could know that they had made it to the ocean is when they get bounties. Since Luffy just got his, and Ace was already on the hunt for BB, that doesn't make it easy for Sabo to get them all together.

Again, "meet up with you two somewhere again" isn't some kind of restriction to having to meet they both at the same time, he could have met one first and the other after and he would still be "meeting the two of them somewhere", and it would be ridiculous to create a condition to only meet the two of them together.

And there is no reason why he would have hidden the truth from his own brothers about he being alive, if he was planning to pretend his death he should at least have told them that this was his plan from the beginning, in the letter he sent to Ace and Luffy, or send another letter to tell them saying that he was fine, or find other means to tell them, because they are his beloved brothers!

I have said already the only 2 situation where I believe Sabo can have been alive this whole time, read my post on the beginning of page 26.

@Akumu:

The perfect moment for him to escape would have been in the middle of the night when no one is watching the ocean because everyone's asleep. The absoute worst time to leave ould be when everyone is at the beach and the world nobles are coming. That is, unless you want a lot of people there to see you "die"….

Well too much past this point and we're just going to spit out the same theories over and over again, and Oda's playing games with us by taking a break, so we'll just have to wait two weeks to fins out something more. Until then there is no definate proof for either side, which, I'm sure, is exactly how Oda wanted it.

So until then, as I survived the buster call said, Sabo is Schrodinger's cat. He is both alive and dead until the box is opened.

Sabo isn't a experienced sailor or navigator, to sail during the night would be dangerous, he could simply run into a rock underwater near the coast, and to sink without any help coming.

But agreed, we are gonna go in circles discussing it.

[Mizrath]

Hey guys i found the guy talking to robin of the cover of 546 (the one everyone says is Sabo) hes in the anime episode 324 near the end at the revolutionary base staring at the map.

[Ivotas]

@Mizrath:

Hey guys i found the guy talking to robin of the cover of 546 (the one everyone says is Sabo) hes in the anime episode 324 near the end at the revolutionary base staring at the map.