Chapter 568 "Have it Your Own Damned Way" Discussion

It's fairly easy to interpret. They talk about having a Merry Christmas, and it makes Usopp associate Merry with Going Merry and the crew gets depressed. Brook, of course, is clueless as he's the only one who never knew the going Merry, and Zoro yells at them.

Croy

@zuppamann:

I confirm.
Next Jump will be out the 4th of jennary so we'll have spoiler one week before (maybe 27-28)

You really can't confirm it for this break. Every year for the past 5 years we have actually gotten super early spoilers for the second double issue. We may or may not get a spoiler this week, its up to the spoiler providers but Shonen Jump tends to print the second double isssue well ahead of its release so the workers have a straight 2 week break.

Battle Franky

Yeah, Croy has it right. The spoiler drop might not occur as per normal (Tues-Wednesday) but it will drop much, much earlier then the sale date. It really all depends on who gets the heads up first and whether they're reliable or not.

Sakonosolo

@Khamolen:

I don't think this was posted.

http://img130.imageshack.us/i/20104koma.jpg/

Awww, so sad :cwy: .

Greg

So I'm typing up the JF report and need a break.

I figured I'd take that time to comment on the shitiness of this chapter.

What the hell? I thought I was reading Naruto those last two pages. Did they switch drafts or something?

reads naruto

Oh God no, that was deeeefinitely Naruto.

Guess it was just a shitty chapter.

Zach Logan

@Greg:

So I'm typing up the JF report and need a break.

I figured I'd take that time to comment on the shitiness of this chapter.

What the hell? I thought I was reading Naruto those last two pages. Did they switch drafts or something?

reads naruto

Oh God no, that was deeeefinitely Naruto.

Guess it was just a shitty chapter.

That's why it was confusing when you said Yamaguchi cried over it. It was a very so-so chapter. I'd rather it end before the break on a so-so note than on a massive exciting cliffhanger.

Greg

Well, I understand why he said what he said.

Ace's line is pretty damn good, at least in Japanese. That's of course before it all goes to hell in the last two pages.

I'm actually developing a rant on this based on a number of things Oda has said in those interviews I'm sifting through.

He's starting to rub me as a little bit pretentious about his job and what it 'should' involve.

Sir Crocodile

There are pictures out already.

Greg

Good, it deserves it. I'm all for busting OP when it works hard to suck.

I understand Luffy's feelings, but it feels so lame just plopped out there like that. Not to mention Iva's stern refusal and in one panel COMPLETELY CHANGES HIS MIND.

ugh

BTW, can we guess that perhaps whatever is afflicting WB is the same thing that afflicted GDR?

Baldulf

@Sir:

There are pictures out already.

Yep, nobody is going to open the spoiler thread for chapter 569?

Cream-of-Chicken

@Baldulf:

Yep, nobody is going to open the spoiler thread for chapter 569?

I thought there was no chapter for this week?

Zik

@Cream-of-Chicken:

I thought there was no chapter for this week?

That has nothing to do with early spoilers.

Cleon

@Greg:

Not to mention Iva's stern refusal and in one panel COMPLETELY CHANGES HIS MIND.

I don't see the problem with that. He simply realized that Luffy is not the kind of person who'll just let him say no. You can pretty much see his look change panel-by-panel as he figures this out.

UsoppSpell

@Greg:

Good, it deserves it. I'm all for busting OP when it works hard to suck.

I understand Luffy's feelings, but it feels so lame just plopped out there like that. Not to mention Iva's stern refusal and in one panel COMPLETELY CHANGES HIS MIND.

ugh

BTW, can we guess that perhaps whatever is afflicting WB is the same thing that afflicted GDR?

I'm guessing you were in favour of Luffy not making a difference at all in terms of the battle.

I agree, he is supposed to be an ant in a storm, but did you really expect that he wouldn't powerup and/or display huge potential before going down? Or is it that you don't like how Oda handled this?

Luffy will free Ace, we knew this from the start. That's the Oda way, at least so far. No big dissapointments or failures. If Luffy went through so much up to this point it will not be for naught. Would it be great storytelling for Luffy to fail? Perhaps it would be, but I wouldn't put a single penny on it. It is unfortunate.

And I do understand what you mean about Oda's growing delusions. The worrysome part is that the "educational" aspect of his could forever deprive us of certain storyline directions which would be incredibly strong from a storytelling point of view but that considering his policy on certain issues we are extremely unlikely to ever see them. At this point, I'm even actually starting to doubt that WB will die on panel.

As for Ivankov's change of heart, I actually don't find it hard to buy at all.

On the plus side we've been waiting forever to see Luffy powerup. It's certainly better than a timeskip to have him hopped up on PCP and go berserk on the fuckers.

45Dunc

Delicious spoilers are delicious.
I've already forgotten about this chapter.

Greg

I'm guessing you were in favour of Luffy not making a difference at all in terms of the battle.

Well I want him to contribute to victory. Because let's face it, Oda's not going to let his hero sit out without making a difference, but I don't want the victory to be all on him.

Regardless, that's not what bugged me so much as the pitiful, "If I can't save Ace then I'd rather be dead!"

Oh boo-fucking-hoo.

He simply realized that Luffy is not the kind of person who'll just let him say no. You can pretty much see his look change panel-by-panel as he figures this out.

Actually, Luffy could barely grab his leg. Iva could have said no and been done with it.

Yes you do see his face change, all in the span of breathing twice.

I don't mind that he changed his mind, just that it was handled so sloppily. If ANYTHING was going to change his mind it should have been directly following Luffy's pouting about wanting to die THEN he should have shot him up. That I would have believed. But he goes on a rant then changes his mind after calming down? Ew.

Cleon

@Greg:

I don't mind that he changed his mind, just that it was handled so sloppily. If ANYTHING was going to change his mind it should have been directly following Luffy's pouting about wanting to die THEN he should have shot him up. That I would have believed. But he goes on a rant then changes his mind after calming down? Ew.

Maybe something clicked in his head when he started talking about Dragon? Like "This is probably what he would want me to do" or "I probably should help his son" or "If he's anything like Dragon he'll haunt me forever if I don't do this".

But I do agree that it seems very awkward in placement.

Cream-of-Chicken

@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:

That has nothing to do with early spoilers.

My bad, it's not this week. Sorry.

Greg

Maybe something clicked in his head when he started talking about Dragon? Like "This is probably what he would want me to do" or "I probably should help his son" or "If he's anything like Dragon he'll haunt me forever if I don't do this".

I'm not big on fanmade speculation. Not putting you down I just hate when a scene needs to be reduced to, "Well maybe he was actually thinking insert random idea and that made it happen."

So anyway, I think I just realized a big spoiler for the series. I'm pretty sure it isn't original and the idea has probably been floating around in Japan for a gooood long while but the idea just popped in there while I reading over the title of the Men's Non-No interview and it clicked. Don't say I didn't warn you if you haven't thought about it from the wordplay angle. And no, not just 'one peace' although that plays a part.

! The Japanese name for the One Piece is 'hitotsu nagi no daihihou'
ひとつなぎの大秘宝 or 'The One Great Treasure'.
! However….
! The assumption with the title being 'one' is that 'hitotsu' means 'one' but if you read it differently it could go, 人繋ぎの大秘宝 or 'The Great Treasure That Connects Us To One Other'. Add to that we've got the importance that has ALWAYS been placed on friendship AND the misreading of One Piece as 'One Peace' and you've got fucking trifecta.

Cleon

@Greg:

I'm not big on fanmade speculation. Not putting you down I just hate when a scene needs to be reduced to, "Well maybe he was actually thinking insert random idea and that made it happen."

True, but there's just a noticeable pause there, as if he started to think about what he just said before finally complying to Luffy's demands. I'm not trying to speculate about what may or may not have cause it, merely that there's more to it than a simple spur of the moment change of heart.

! Also, nice realization, although I believe the whole "One Piece is Companionship" theory has been around for awhile, although mostly as a joke.

Ivotas

@Greg:

Well I want him to contribute to victory. Because let's face it, Oda's not going to let his hero sit out without making a difference, but I don't want the victory to be all on him.

I'm quite sure that the victory wont be all on him (unless of course he turns to Nightmare Luffy again). He simply needs to get up on his feet since victory still isn't in sight meaning he yet has to contribute to it.

MagneticMonkey

It was luffys last wish… I had no problems with it since it's completely probable that Iva who knows the side effects of the drug would react like that but after calming down realises what he has been called for.
I'm fine with Oda not feeding me with everything when i can fill the "holes" with my comon sense.

brennen.exe

@Greg:

I understand Luffy's feelings, but it feels so lame just plopped out there like that.

@Greg:

"If I can't save Ace then I'd rather be dead!" Oh boo-fucking-hoo.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. I think this just comes down to a difference in opinion or perspective, and not so much that it really is bad or lame or what have you. I mean, Luffy's bond with Ace was always clear as day, but his speech in this chapter shows just how strong it is. Luffy has little to no family as is, so I think him crying out that the only brother that he has– practically only family-- is about to die in front of him allows for a reasonably emotional situation for both in-story characters and readers alike. Add the fact that Luffy is convinced that he can save Ace were he given another shot of heroine, and it makes sense that he would hate and blame himself for not taking that chance and instead just watching his brother die because he was too powerless. I thought it came across well. Then again, maybe I am just too simple when it comes to this stuff, or perhaps there is a language barrier thing that makes the dialog a little more corny for you. I don't know, but I thought the translation I read was fairly realistic (for fiction) and natural. In fact, I thought the cliffhanger was pretty exciting overall.

@Greg:

Not to mention Iva's stern refusal and in one panel COMPLETELY CHANGES HIS MIND.

@Greg:

I don't mind that he changed his mind, just that it was handled so sloppily. If ANYTHING was going to change his mind it should have been directly following Luffy's pouting about wanting to die THEN he should have shot him up. That I would have believed. But he goes on a rant then changes his mind after calming down? Ew.

Again, I am going to have to disagree. Now, hopefully you know me well enough to know that I am not a fan of Oda's nuts, nor have I ever been acquainted with them, so this has nothing to do with some hidden agenda aimed at gaining an audience with the aforementioned's nuts. Having said that, I reiterate that I disagree. Were I to act out this scenario in real life, I once again find it to be a fairly natural reaction and response. Iva states his case, warning Luffy of the dangers, and then outright refusing. Luffy uses what little strength he has to plead in a demanding way that he needs this, death or no. There is also a panel thrown in the midst of that where Iva is sweating, so we know he is being influenced by Luffy's words, but still clearly against the proposal. We know Iva screams "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!" because of Dragon, but we see in the following panel he is visibly and verbally regaining composure. Now, this might just be "fan speculation", but since the outburst was followed by Iva breathing heavily and regaining composure, I am led to believe the fangy-toothed refusal was simply Iva's excessive frustration at the situation. It helps when you consider that Luffy collapses on the floor in that same panel, leaving Iva to yell at an overly optimistic and bloody corpse. I know this isn't the first time (even in real life) someone would have decided to do something while screaming out their refusal in a last act of defiance or stubbornness, only to respond immediately after with, "FINE THEN!!" and perhaps a pouty stomping of their feet back to their room. Which is, (not) coincidentally, almost exactly what happens. "Fine!! Have it your own damn way!!"

Kids: "Can we keep him? Pleeeeeeaase??"
George: "We can't have a dog…WE CAN'T HAVE A DOG! If we keep it the house will be destroyed! Dogs sniff, they lick, they chew, they drool, they scratch...they have parasites!!"
Kids: sad faces
Beethoven: bites Ted's glasses
George: "….............."
George: "…YOU BETTER THINK OF SOMETHING TO NAME IT CAUSE WHEN I COME HOME AND IT DESTROYS MY HOUSE I WANNA KNOW WHAT TO CALL HIM!"

@Greg:

BTW, can we guess that perhaps whatever is afflicting WB is the same thing that afflicted GDR?

Looks more like a huge gaping hole in his chest to me. But seriously, I'm not sure I would jump on the bandwagon just yet. Oda loves to tie things together, sure, but unlike Roger, Whitebeard could simply be dying of old age. There really hasn't been much to suggest he has a doctor like Crocus keeping him alive, just sexy nurses w/ tubes, and people keep throwing out the "old man" card on him, so…

Sea

I am going to vote for Brennen.exe for favourite mod.

wintergt

I think I have a mental filter for those sorts of emo moments, instead of getting annoyed by them I barely notice them anymore.

Andrew1995

@wintergt:

I think I have a mental filter for those sorts of emo moments, instead of getting annoyed by them I barely notice them anymore.

Then you miss the most interesting moments of this manga. But as they say, to each their own.

Greg

Looks more like a huge gaping hole in his chest to me

I know you were kidding about that but I meant what Marco was talking about, What we feared most!, and whatever appears to have been afflicting him since we first saw him. We just assumed it was injuries but…

Yeah, I definitely dont buy either. It sounds really, really bad. Hated it. I know how it was supposed to come off, (same with Ivas cliche wavering which has been so overused you were able to apply it to a parent and child conversation related to mans best friend), but it just sounded miserable, especially since Oda intended it to be some giant DON Luffy quotable. If he didnt look like such a pussy saying it or didn`t scream it in huge bold font and said it softly with conviction and stern eyes, I probably would have bought it completely. But that? Why, he might as well have hit the snow-covered earth struggling to catch his breath.

Ivotas

@Greg:

Yeah, I definitely dont buy either. It sounds really, really bad. Hated it. I know how it was supposed to come off, (same with Ivas cliche wavering which has been so overused you were able to apply it to a parent and child conversation related to mans best friend), but it just sounded miserable, especially since Oda intended it to be some giant DON Luffy quotable. **If he didnt look like such a pussy saying it or didn`t scream it in huge bold font and said it softly with conviction and stern eyes, I probably would have bought it completely.** But that? Why, he might as well have hit the snow-covered earth struggling to catch his breath.

The problem is that Luffy's been put to his place several times in this war. Furthermore it's a fight against time since Ace could be struck down any second. Expecting him to act cool by saying his line softly with conviction and stern eyes wouldn't really be fitting for the situation.

Greg

And while I understand what you mean, it doesnt make it any less wimpy and whiney. If thats what Oda was going for, mission accomplished. Im actually not even suggesting Luffy should have looked like he did when going after Lucci, just he shouldnt have looked so desperate.

Felt like perhaps one of the biggest ooc moments I`ve ever seen in the series for Luffy.

Horrific chapter pandering to his young readers fulfilling their cliche-ridden expectations.

I hope he finishes off the year strong (world).

TLC

@Greg:

And while I understand what you mean, it doesnt make it any less wimpy and whiney. If thats what Oda was going for, mission accomplished. Im actually not even suggesting Luffy should have looked like he did when going after Lucci, just he shouldnt have looked so desperate.

Felt like perhaps one of the biggest ooc moments I`ve ever seen in the series for Luffy.

Horrific chapter pandering to his young readers fulfilling their cliche-ridden expectations.

I hope he finishes off the year strong (world).

But…I think he was desperate:/

Ivotas

@Greg:

And while I understand what you mean, it doesnt make it any less wimpy and whiney. If thats what Oda was going for, mission accomplished. Im actually not even suggesting Luffy should have looked like he did when going after Lucci, just he shouldnt have looked so desperate.

@Thousand:

But…I think he was desperate:/

I agree with TLC. Wasn't that the whole point of the entire situation anyways?

Greg

A picture is worth a thousand words.

This is what I wanted.

Thats all folks. I dont think it`s too much.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/427/04/

Ivotas

@Greg:

A picture is worth a thousand words.

This is what I wanted.

Thats all folks. I dont think it`s too much.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/427/04/

I understood that already. But I still think that what you expect would be out of context. Luffy is a) totally outclassed, b) fighting against time and c) trying to convince Ivankov to lend him his help. This situation simply doesn't strike as one where Luffy is supposed to be calm. Especially since it's part of his character to yell and shout even during fights (as for example seen here and here).

MagneticMonkey

I think it wouldn't have fit into the situation. Right now every marine with a sword can take aces head which is why luffy is so desperate. He can't move at all without ivan so it's his last chance…
I wouldn't even mind if he cried as he did on shabondy seeing his friends disappearing in front of him one after another without being able to do anything...

TLC

I agree. The context of both situations was completely different. In that picture, Luffy got his ass seriously kicked and it looked like his spirit was more broken than anything (Usopp had to rile him up). In the last chapter, Luffy was desperately trying to get help. If anything, Luffy's current situation is more similar to Saboady (you know, the one where he ended up crying).

Edit: ^Beaten to it.

Zinfer

well, i probably would have gotten more emotion out of it if he had been calmer in the situation, but i think that the way he expressed himself fit the scenario very well.
i still would have gone crazy either way, so im not dissapointed at all, its just i can somewhat see where gregs coming from

Ryuksgelus

Does Greg realize how absurd everybody else but him would find that scene if Oda did it the way he wanted? I mean it would be really, really, really stupid. He has been kicked, blown up, stabbed, cut, cut, cut, shot with a laser, after all the shit he went through at ID.

Absolutely no reason he'd be calm and stoic while asking Iva for help. He was also tired fighting Lucci, while here he is literally running on loads of Adrenaline. You calmly do anything in that situation with your blood pumping.

Greg

This situation simply doesn't strike as one where Luffy is supposed to be calm.

For FUCK'S SAKE IVOTAS! Don't put words in my mouth! Then people started posting bullshit like this!

Does Greg realize how absurd everybody else but him would find that scene if Oda did it the way he wanted? I mean it would be really, really, really stupid. He has been kicked, blown up, stabbed, cut, cut, cut, shot with a laser, after all the shit he went through at ID.

Absolutely no reason he'd be calm and stoic while asking Iva for help.

I never said shit about calm. Fucking read!

I said 'softly'.

Luffy shouldn't be calm!

In your own goddamn words:

He has been kicked, blown up, stabbed, cut, cut, cut, shot with a laser, after all the shit he went through at ID.

Luffy is a) totally outclassed, b) fighting against time

Luffy SHOULD be at his wit's end both physically and mentally. He shouldn't be able to muster the strength to move let alone throw a shit fit like he did. All Oda had to do was draw him with eyes that said he meant business. He's done it before plenty of times. THAT'S why. Luffy shouldn't even have the strength left to able to scream and bitch about how he'd rather die, Oda should have been able to convey that energy and conviction in his battered face.

He didn't! He failed in my book. He didn't in your own because you expect something different. But don't start with this assuming what I mean bullshit and run off into a completely different direction based on what you just thought I meant. This is the second time in almost a month now with you.

Ivotas

@Greg:

For FUCK'S SAKE IVOTAS! Don't put words in my mouth! Then people started posting bullshit like this!

And this couldn't have been said in a more polite way because…?

Seriously, if I screwed up, my bad. No need for losing your composure since it's actually rather easy to connect/confuse being soft with being calm (to be honest, I don't even know where one draws the difference here). Furthermore if you reread that very post of mine, you'll notice that other then using the term "calm" I've also used the exact terms you used.

Luffy SHOULD be at his wit's end both physically and mentally. He shouldn't be able to muster the strength to move let alone throw a shit fit like he did. All Oda had to do was draw him with eyes that said he meant business. He's done it before plenty of times. THAT'S why. Luffy shouldn't even have the strength left to able to scream and bitch about how he'd rather die, Oda should have been able to convey that energy and conviction in his battered face.

Still this wouldn't be a proper way of portraying how one desperately and in a hurry requests for help. Not for Luffy.

He didn't! He failed in my book. He didn't in your own because you expect something different. But don't start with this assuming what I mean bullshit and run off into a completely different direction based on what you just thought I meant. This is the second time in almost a month now with you.

Seriously Greg, calm down please. As I said, I made a mistake by thinking calm equal softly here. No need to get agressively defensive.

To get back on topic, as I said even if we talk about Luffy speaking softly (which unless I'm mistaken again IS your point) it still wouldn't be fitting for such a situation. Not for a character that easily gets fired up.

Emolisher

This post is deleted!

brennen.exe

@Greg:

I know you were kidding about that but I meant what Marco was talking about, What we feared most!, and whatever appears to have been afflicting him since we first saw him. We just assumed it was injuries, but…

Right, and I was saying that I still assume it is just health problems due to old age. The story (via others and himself) acknowledge that he is an old man– hell, his design comes from an old man in a bar with health problems-- so I don't really see any similarities between him getting sick in his old age and Roger dying young because of an incurable disease. In fact, I think "old age" works much better with his whole, "you can't always be the strongest" statement. Oda does like to connect story elements together, so the Roger connection isn't impossible, but I think it would be an unnecessary addition, so for the moment I am steering clear of that bandwagon.

@Greg:

Luffy SHOULD be at his wit's end both physically and mentally. He shouldn't be able to muster the strength to move let alone throw a shit fit like he did. All Oda had to do was draw him with eyes that said he meant business.

@Greg:

A picture is worth a thousand words. This is what I wanted. Chapter 427

I dunno. Sure seems like Luffy is at his wit's end both physically and mentally. I mean, take your own listed example and consider that only a page or two later Luffy starts yelling at Usopp, then gets up, then blocks Lucci's attacks, then gets hit by Rokuougan, then uses Jet Gatling, and then screams "FRIENDSHIP <3~!!" to Robin…all in the same damn chapter! Yes, Luffy should be at his limit, and Oda could have depicted that as a constant thing throughout this chapter, but like your listed example, he didn't. I would say that this and this (CH. 427) are similar to this and this (CH. 568); not the same, but similar. I wouldn't label what Luffy did a "shit fit"; as we both agree, he is (or should be) at his wit's end; as Ivotas said, he is racing against the clock. He is desperate, and in this particular scenario his only chance of hope relies on the assistance of another person, so with a new arc we get a slightly different portrayal on Luffy's part. Given that scenario of desperation, I would say he is neither out of character nor 'boo-fucking-hooing' or 'throwing a shit fit'; desperation is just that. It's somewhat similar to the whole of Chapter 513, or perhaps even this small panel in Chapter 537. Either way….

@Greg:

He failed in my book. He didn't in your own because you expect something different.

…this is all I was really getting at. I just threw in my own perspective and opinion on the matter to make the discussion interesting.

Greg

I mean, take your own listed example and consider that only a page or two later Luffy starts yelling at Usopp, then gets up, then blocks Lucci's attacks, then gets hit by Rokuougan, then uses Jet Gatling, and then screams "FRIENDSHIP <3~!!" to Robin…all in the same damn chapter!

You're comparing how he reacts to his crew, and two members that had pivotal interactions with him in the arc, to someone he met the other day. I expect Luffy's reactions to be over the top and sappy when it comes to dealing directly with them as in talking with/to them.

Here it's awkward and out of place.

But I guess that's just silly me reading in Japanese dur-hur. He probably sounds super badass-awesome-cool in English like that title.

No need to get agressively defensive.

You pinched a nerve. I've always HATED when people put words in my mouth and even worse, when other people go off on me because of it. Them's the breaks.

Seem to recall something about a mother…