Disney's scheduling has been awful for a decade now; Phineas and Ferb was airing new episodes for about eight years but almost half of that was part of one season. It wasn't a production delay issue either since they aired the B part of one episode about a year after the A part.
Disney animation thread
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Cartoon Network similarly sat on the last 4 episodes of Samurai Jack for a solid year before they just dumped them all out while premiering Clone Wars… and had Scooby Mystery Inc take almost 4 years to air two seasons. And not even get into what happened to Steven Universe once they decided the bomb format was the way to go...
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And not even get into what happened to Steven Universe once they decided the bomb format was the way to go…
Yikes, that was hard to endure and a bizarre decision.
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"Let's push a show into an 11 minute format, so that a traditional production schedule and budget allows you to have new episodes twice a month for the whole year… and then have five month gaps instead." Even Adventure Time which had a 52 episode season one year had that stretched over two years.
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The 11 minute format basically started to kill Steven Universe too.
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And not even get into what happened to Steven Universe once they decided the bomb format was the way to go…
It could always be worse; look at Generator Rex.
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@Cyan:
The 11 minute format basically started to kill Steven Universe too.
I haven't watched the show in ages, but isn't that how it's always been. A standard 22-minute episode made up of two 11-minute individual segments, occasionally the two being a two-parter.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Nah, Disney took 4 years to air Gravity Falls, Nick took 2 to air Korra.
Diseny been doing sitting on top of episodes to generate hype and boost the audience numbers.Yeah, but Korra was taken off the air mid-third seasons because of bad ratings and what was left was released online; season 4 might have held off for another year and given more time to complete had the ratings not been so bad. And from what Hirsch has said about Gravity Falls, episodes where aired soon after they were completed, instead of being stockpiled.
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It could always be worse; look at Generator Rex.
It could be worse even then that try Beware The Batman.
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Disney is officially changing Splash Mountain's theme from Song of the South to Princess and the Frog:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/splash-mountain-ride-disney-change-princess-frog?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bffbbuzzfeedgeeky&ref=bffbbuzzfeedgeeky&&fbclid=IwAR2TXXrD5AECd_5u3FS3mOkip3G7O0IAkY7wMnHuPziMt3JlZdX6euqy0LII like the concept art! Traditionalists will just have to deal with it.
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I haven't watched the show in ages, but isn't that how it's always been. A standard 22-minute episode made up of two 11-minute individual segments, occasionally the two being a two-parter.
Yes but eventually they were trying to tell stories that just didn't fit in 11 minute chunks, so everything turned into 4 or 5 parters that were just loosely connected which weakened the individual stories AND the bigger story they were trying to tell. Future was 20 episodes long and it probably should have just been a 90 minute movie,,, they would have been able to handle the themes they wanted better without the same kind of stress needing to start and stop every 11 minutes added..
Yeah, but Korra was taken off the air mid-third seasons because of bad ratings
That was 1000% Nick's own fault though. How they advertised it and when they aired it are what killed it. They wanted Spongebob that they could drop in wherever, they hated the serialized storytelling stuff that needed dedicated viewing. They tanked it so they could offload it and just move onto the dvd sales.
ALso the thing where they didn't approve them more than a season at a time cut their budget at the end of production so they had to make a clip show they hadn't planned on doing…
Basically the show was greenlit because they had a movie coming out, and the movie completely tanked but Korra did good in the ratings... but the people in charge just didn't like it.
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Yes but eventually they were trying to tell stories that just didn't fit in 11 minute chunks, so everything turned into 4 or 5 parters that were just loosely connected which weakened the individual stories AND the bigger story they were trying to tell. Future was 20 episodes long and it probably should have just been a 90 minute movie,,, they would have been able to handle the themes they wanted better without the same kind of stress needing to start and stop every 11 minutes added..
Ah, I remember some of those. I'll take your word about Future.
That was 1000% Nick's own fault though. How they advertised it and when they aired it are what killed it. They wanted Spongebob that they could drop in wherever, they hated the serialized storytelling stuff that needed dedicated viewing. They tanked it so they could offload it and just move onto the dvd sales.
ALso the thing where they didn't approve them more than a season at a time cut their budget at the end of production so they had to make a clip show they hadn't planned on doing…
Basically the show was greenlit because they had a movie coming out, and the movie completely tanked but Korra did good in the ratings... but the people in charge just didn't like it.
I don’t doubt most of what you said, but do you have a source for this part. It doesn’t seem right to me that the Nick executives wouldn’t have been aware that a) the sequel from a their popular narrative heavy show would also likely be a narrative heavy show and b) if they wanted something else, they could have made the call when production began.
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I discovered S3 of Korra a week before it started to air. When they were finishing production on S1, which was supposed to the the only - since the pottery of Korra being left with only air bending the same way Aang started with only that - that they green lit the S2, needing to change the ending. The scheduling being on friday night's, the absolute lack of promoting, the switching platform from cable to net mid season, it was a complete mess on Nick's part.
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I don’t doubt most of what you said, but do you have a source for this part.
Networks have NEVER liked serialized storytelling. It creates a stronger fanbase from those that are loyal, absolutely, but it makes it harder for people to come in later and harder to schedule, and it means effects heavy or animated shows can get in trouble if something runs behind. . Its why outside of soap operas, almost nothing was truly serialized until the 90's, and even then it was rare. Like, Buffy and Gargoyles and Babylon 5 were pretty much it… and even Buffy was super episodic, it was the character beats that carried forward mostly. Some other shows had light continuity, but it was usually "cast member changes at the start of the season" or "we can only bring this plot point up once a year to make sure people had a chance to see it in reruns."
That's why Star Trek TNG only used popular things like Q, the Borg, or Lore once a year for most of its run, and why the Romulan subplot and Denise Crosby appearances were so far apart..
Show's could have events that were big blocks of important and shape the show, like say, the Power Rangers getting Tommy and Tommy eventually losing his powers then becoming a white Ranger. But there were 30 episodes inbetween those events that were status quo and nothing actually changed. (Which is actually a lesson Gargoyles learned the hard way.... to try and not have big shifts too close together because production could be wonky.)
DVD box sets becoming widespread, and now streaming, have changed the dynamics, creatives can tell 10 hour movies now if they want and assume viewers will start at the start, but that comes with its own ups and downs.... but that doesn't help shows that are airing once a week on television.
Something like Spongebob or Teen Titans Go they can literally air 30 episodes a day and it just does not matter, its fine if people miss some. A big long narrative thing though? They can't air one episode at 11 and then the follow up episode at 3. They need to either be on different rotations, immediate reruns of the same episode, or in a block together. And on top of that, you kind of want to pair the action kung fu show with other action kung fu shows... that's at least part of the reason they bought Ninja Turtles.
It doesn’t seem right to me that the Nick executives wouldn’t have been aware that a) the sequel from a their popular narrative heavy show would also likely be a narrative heavy show and b) if they wanted something else, they could have made the call when production began.
There's a vast difference between being aware creators are going to do a thing, and liking it.
And Khorra was originally pitched as just 12 episodes standalone, so they were just going to push and promote it as a deluxe mini-series which is a fine thing to do once, but not something you can do with an actual long runner. Then they completely botched how they ordered the rest of the series (one season at a time) so that made all sorts of production troubles.
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I personally thought the 11 minute format was a huge strength for Steven Universe (the release schedule less so). It meant that while the core narrative or worldbuilding was always being gradually advanced, everything was grounded in smaller stories. These were focused on the character dynamics and emotional conflicts of the cast, which were always the core strengths of the show, and ensured that any individual episode felt satisfying on its own. This even extended to the multi-part "Bomb" episodes. Its a seriously impressive juggling act, I find.
And I'd say it worked for Future too; episodes may retread thematic ground, but they interrogate this theme from different angles to make unique individual stories - one episode may be about learning to broaden your limited social circle and talking to friends of friends, another may be about the fear of losing a friendship once a common interest dissapears, another may be about idealizing a family structure you never had as a solution to your current problems…while still feeding together into a coherent thematic whole.
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Sure, but we had basically 17 episodes in a row of Stephen going "My life sucks now and no one understands me" while pushing away everyone, none of the main gems paying him any attention… and beating that over the head that many tiems in a row really wore thin... Before it leapt into its finale with a really lackluster resolution.... and then after having 19 episodes built up of "Stephen needs to talk about his feelings" they just timeskip past the actual talking and development and interesting stuff that could have come from all that setup, and just... have him moving away six months later and its really awkward.
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Anyone seen this yet?
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The two hour rebuttal to Kimba Simba controversy? Started but didn't ended it.
To my understanding Disney Kimba as a jumping stone to Simba. How much does that infringe copy right laws? I'll let the lawyers settle the morality of the issue, as Disney would never lose a lawyer battle. -
The Kimba situation is just like the Atlantis/Nadia situation. The art team was absolutely 1000% inspired by the anime, but the story team wasn't. There's so much overlap its stupid to try and deny they weren't inspired, but its a large team of hundreds of individuals, they weren't all in unison going "lets rip this thing off."
No one ever tries to bring up "The Rescuers Down Under was just a Nausicaa rip off" and they pretty much traced the flying sequences. Nor "The finale of Great Mouse Detective was from Castle of Cagliostro".
There's influence, inspiration and homage, and then there's straight theft. Disney wasn't doing straight theft.
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The Kimba situation is just like the Atlantis/Nadia situation. The art team was absolutely 1000% inspired by the anime, but the story team wasn't. There's so much overlap its stupid to try and deny they weren't inspired, but its a large team of hundreds of individuals, they weren't all in unison going "lets rip this thing off."
No one ever tries to bring up "The Rescuers Down Under was just a Nausicaa rip off" and they pretty much traced the flying sequences. Nor "The finale of Great Mouse Detective was from Castle of Cagliostro".
There's influence, inspiration and homage, and then there's straight theft. Disney wasn't doing straight theft.
and yet it won't stop the minor masses from trying to find something to help them justify their arguments.
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Also fun, the Jungle Emporer Leo movie that came out in 1997, clearly ripped its opening off the Lion King. So its all cyclical anyway.
Like, just watch the first 5 minutes of this and pretend Circle of Life is playing.
Beyond that there's nothing in Lion King about humans, or getting a magic crystal, or trying to civilize the place, or running off to the circus… Yeah there's a bird and a baboon and an uncle with a scar and the main character has black ear tips. Those are really obvious surface things that of COURSE they copied, but that's very much just surface.
Nor does DIsney's Atlantis doesn't have an 8 year old girl, a lion, Captain Nemo, a Nazi cult, or Team Rocket with a mini-tank. They have.. a blonde woman, a nerd with glasses, a black doctor, and a guy with a mustache? Oooh, so similar. Frankly if they'd actually ripped of Nadia they probably would have had a better movie.
Not like they were doing what they did to their own movies.
Frankly, if Disney really wants a property, they just outright buy it. No reason to make a cheap (or expensive) imitation rip something off when you can just have the real thing in your library for likely less money and effort..
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Not like they were doing what they did to their own movies.
well Disney has been know to recycle some of their own material when case need be.
one good example would be this.
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Is it me or that Parrot sounds a lot like Shaggy?
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Hircsh is aiming to be full time VA
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/gravity-falls-amphibia-alex-hirsch-disney-channel-first-look-1234699377/ -
Putting this here since Hamilton is on Disney+:
Lin Manuel-Miranda asked Weird Al to make a Hamilton polka. So he did:
I fucking love Weird Al.
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The Polka was how I discovered the Musical, I think the song is as old as the show.
The only thing new is the usage of the recorded spectacle. -
The polka came from the "Hamildrops" thing they did a couple years ago, but now with the movie on Disney+ Weird Al was able to make a video for it.
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The Hamilton Polka is from 2 years ago.
The actual Hamilton show officially premiered 5 years ago.
The production of Hamilton and the early performances is from 7 years ago.
The main theme premiered, at the White House!, 11 years ago.
Lin Manuel Miranda started making the show twelve years ago.There is a reason Lin swears he's not going to do any other historical drama musicals.
The greatest thing about this clip is it is SUCH a joke and a stupid concept at the start when Lin first presents it to a very receptive audience, like he made up this gag rap just for the whitehouse.. and then four minutes later they know it's dead serious and going to be something special.
That was May 2009, still near the start of the Obama presidency…
And then in March 2016, near the end of the Obama presidency...
And then, Dec 2018….
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I really enjoyed both episodes; Amphibia is leaping right into the main plot for the season and The Owl House had a really solid episode that had a ton of metahumor to the point of throwing in a BUY MY BOOK reference. Talking standee and all.
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Both Owl House and Amphibia were great this week. I couldn't believe Amphibia had an Getter Robo reference on tonight's episode. For being a long time fan of The Critic, the Buy my Book! joke had me laughing more then should have.
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Can anyone tell me why Disney never uses 2D Animation anymore for it’s movies, ever since Toy Story it seems like Studios are shying away from 2D animation
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Can anyone tell me why Disney never uses 2D Animation anymore for it’s movies, ever since Toy Story it seems like Studios are shying away from 2D animation
there are a number of reaosn for it but sadly don't recall most of them and im not the person to answer that one.
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The short answer is "Because Princess and the Frog didn't do super well and Tangled and Frozen did AMAZING. Therefore cgi sells better than 2d"
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well to be fair, Princess and the Frog did had some stiff competition at the time.
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Can anyone tell me why Disney never uses 2D Animation anymore for it’s movies, ever since Toy Story it seems like Studios are shying away from 2D animation
Because CGI movies can make a billion dollars and hand drawn ones don't.
This is entirely because during the renaissance, they kept raising and raising the budgets until it became difficult to become profitable. Like tarzan was by all metrics a success, but not a huge success… and they went downhill from there. They wrecked the market for it with a series of lackluster films in the 00's, (while Pixar showed the world how to do it right). Fantasia 2000 flopped, Atlantis flopped, Treasure Planet was a HUGE flop that probably cost them 100 million after you account for advertising, Brother Bear had no budget and so made some money but not much, and Home on the Range was... a thing that existed. Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch were their only really acclaimed movies during that period but ENG had such a long troubled production history it couldn't ever make a profit, and L&S did good but not Renaissance good. Their last real attempt was Princess and the Frog in 2009... and that was okay at best, had terrible marketing, and was put up against Avatar.
Other films from other studios also flopped, even good ones like Road to El Dorado or Iron Giant, mostly because of lousy advertising or... just being bad movies that were being written poorly and targetted at 4 year olds as was the case with a lot of the animated stuff of the era.
So they closed all the main 2D studios and focused on 3D.
The current mindset due to that "data' Is 2D is dead an audiences don't want it anymore, and 3D is the only way to go.
At this point they'd be hard pressed to do a 2D film even if they wanted, since they've closed down the production studios for that and most of the people with the training for it have moved to 3D and are losing those old skills and techniques. Yeah the tv stuff still gets 2D animation but its not quite the same thing.
I'm sure at some point someone is going to go push to do a classic 2D film again and it'll be a hit, but it'll have to be a Lion King sized hit to shake things enough to get lots of 2D produced again.
Even Japan is trying to move away from 2D, Ghibli's next film is 3D and the Dragon Quest, rather than running with Toriyama designs in 2D, was 3D instead. It's just... what it is.
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I'm still hoping for that new 2D renaissance. I think that with new technology in animation is helping, for instance, look at Into the Spiderverse and Klaus, which I think did manage to take a 2D approach and give it a slick, classy 3D aesthetic.
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There are a lot of Indie artists who are using things like Patreon to get their projects funded. There's been some wonderful stuff, so we can only hope the indie movement doesn't die.
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This post is deleted!
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Because CGI movies can make a billion dollars and hand drawn ones don't.
This is entirely because during the renaissance, they kept raising and raising the budgets until it became difficult to become profitable. Like tarzan was by all metrics a success, but not a huge success… and they went downhill from there. They wrecked the market for it with a series of lackluster films in the 00's, (while Pixar showed the world how to do it right). Fantasia 2000 flopped, Atlantis flopped, Treasure Planet was a HUGE flop that probably cost them 100 million after you account for advertising, Brother Bear had no budget and so made some money but not much, and Home on the Range was... a thing that existed. Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch were their only really acclaimed movies during that period but ENG had such a long troubled production history it couldn't ever make a profit, and L&S did good but not Renaissance good. Their last real attempt was Princess and the Frog in 2009... and that was okay at best, had terrible marketing, and was put up against Avatar.
Other films from other studios also flopped, even good ones like Road to El Dorado or Iron Giant, mostly because of lousy advertising or... just being bad movies that were being written poorly and targetted at 4 year olds as was the case with a lot of the animated stuff of the era.
So they closed all the main 2D studios and focused on 3D.
The current mindset due to that "data' Is 2D is dead an audiences don't want it anymore, and 3D is the only way to go.
At this point they'd be hard pressed to do a 2D film even if they wanted, since they've closed down the production studios for that and most of the people with the training for it have moved to 3D and are losing those old skills and techniques. Yeah the tv stuff still gets 2D animation but its not quite the same thing.
I'm sure at some point someone is going to go push to do a classic 2D film again and it'll be a hit, but it'll have to be a Lion King sized hit to shake things enough to get lots of 2D produced again.
Even Japan is trying to move away from 2D, Ghibli's next film is 3D and the Dragon Quest, rather than running with Toriyama designs in 2D, was 3D instead. It's just... what it is.
Thank You for the answer, it's really sad it's dying off like that, hopefully it will come back sometime soon
I prefer most 2D Animation over 3D to be honest
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I prefer most 2D Animation over 3D to be honest
same here…i do mis the old hand drawn style of the classic cartoons and how they evolved over the years.
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Speaking of old 2D Disney movies, they didn't ever done an adaptation of Little Red Riding Hood didn't they?
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Speaking of old 2D Disney movies, they didn't ever done an adaptation of Little Red Riding Hood didn't they?
Just as shorts including one mixed with the Three Little Pigs and a strange sitcom like one from the wolf's pov; it's a tricky one to expand as a feature.
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I never tire of Robbys soul crushed inside man perspective posts.
Entertaining and sad. What's not to love?
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Speaking of old 2D Disney movies, they didn't ever done an adaptation of Little Red Riding Hood didn't they?
Like Bugs said, hard to expand into a movie.
What I have been waiting for is a version of The Twelve Dancing Princesses. It seems to me to be the perfect story for an official Disney Hispanic Princess, but they haven't touched it.
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I want them to just embrace doing a boys film and do Momotaro or something. Yeah they'd get everything wrong and theres already a million japanese versions of it, but all the more reason it'd be interesting to see the Disney approach and get a different cultural take on it all… I can imagine something akin to Hercules where it has no real resemblance to the classic story but is still a thing.
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I still can't believe they haven't done Momotaro yet. He already has three animal sidekicks in the story, they don't need to make any up!
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I agree that Disney should make an Animated Momotaro Movie, I would also like Disney to make an Animated Journey To The West Movie
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That might be a little more tricky, since there are a lot of layers to it other than just "The Heroes' Journey", like the Buddhist teachings. Not to mention it's LONG.
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That might be a little more tricky, since there are a lot of layers to it other than just "The Heroes' Journey", like the Buddhist teachings. Not to mention it's LONG.
If they can do Hercules without the twelve labors plot, they can figure this out in theory. Heck, this came out just recently.
Now if you want a challenge, try to make a movie about Sigurd and Brunhilde.