Chapter 551 Yonkou "Whitebeard" Discussion

Urian

Bogard is the one who opened the gates.

Put the situation in another context, Garp is a marine who doesn´t believe in the absolute justice and perhaps he abandoned his position as an admiral because he was against all the stuff that the marines did for the world government but his loyalty to the marines made him to stay as a vice-admiral.

According to Oda Garp is a marine from the head to the toes and if you use the brain this war is nothing more than a stupidity from the Gorousei where not only Ace will die but the marines will be highly decimated even if they win the war.

Marines original strategy is this:

1. Close the gate of justice and block the movement of Shirohige armada.

2. Surround hirohige armada with the 50 ships and provoke a lose of time for Shirohige, the 50 ships would lack any opportunity to win but the marines will make a lot of time.

3. With the achieved time kill Ace easily.

Why are the Shichibukai in the island instead of the ships?

When Ace will be executed Sengoku would say that the end of piracy has ended and the Gorousei will put an order saying that the Shichibukai title has been revoked for all them, then the 3 admirals, sengoku and the most powerful part of the navy will go against the Shichibukai and capture them or kill them.

Remember that Sengoku hates the Shichibukai.

Garp is the saboteur because he believes that the entire plan is a stupidity, the fact that they are sending 50 ships and their marines to their death only for the the absolute justice must be something disgusting for someone like Garp who doesn´t believe in the stupidity of the absolute justice.

With the Gates completely opened the pirates won´t be surrounded and they will be able to take land without decimating the ships from the navy, a lot of the pirates that are allies with Shirohige will be easily wiped out by Vice Admirals, Shichibukai and the Admirals.

Garp isn´t making this for helping Ace only, he is doing this for saving the life of thousand of young marines.

syler

not only that he helped the straw hats before,he is also the only guy in the marine who knows all the sides very well,he knows the pirates side and the marine side and the revolutionaries side also cos he knows dragon…

i mean kuma just seems to know everybody in the OP world.

syler

hmm bogart you sat ha?
hmm that might be,but do you think bogart will betray the mraines like that?
i mean he is a marine for a long time,and garp freind right?

sure garp could tell him to do that,but i still think kuma simply makes more since…

just wondering,why isnt songuku calling magellan to marine HQ?
now that ID is down and lots of ppl escaped,im sure he can take a break and go to the marine Hq no?

i just really like magellan since he took out all the BB pirates...seems like magellan is very very powerfull,he is probably in the level of an admiral.

Just end my vacation, coming home and seeing this! Damn Oda is God… But he gave us alot of material for new speculations as e.g. Dadan.

rizu

actually, they @ Marine fort didn't know what happen to ID since Shiryuu has cut out the communication in chapter 544.

Rakuen

Is Luffy wearing a strawhat there? Why does he already have his scar? Luffy met Ace AFTER he met Shanks? Seriously wtf?

TLC

@Rakuen:

Is Luffy wearing a strawhat there? Why does he already have his scar? Luffy met Ace AFTER he met Shanks? Seriously wtf?

Yes he did. I fail to see how it's a problem. It actually makes more sense seeing he wasn't around in Luffy's flashback.

Zarnikon

@Zyordius:

You guys forgot that WB will use haki to haki his haki to counter all other haki. Then Dragon will haki there, use haki to haki Ace away, then haki Luffy to his crew where they can all learn haki afterwards. Everyone dies from haki then gets brought back by haki, oh and "One Piece" is Haki.:getlost:

That makes totally sense to me!!

@Rakuen:

Is Luffy wearing a strawhat there? Why does he already have his scar? Luffy met Ace AFTER he met Shanks? Seriously wtf?

Most likely Luffy lived with Dadan and Ace untill Dadan Died, then Ace took of to the grand line and Luffy met shanks.

Zarnikon

This post is deleted!

Rakuen

I didn't say it was a problem and it perfectly makes sense, it just confuses me as Luffy seems much younger in this flashback than in chapter one. Also I'm kinda surprised it hasn't come up until now that they aren't really brothers.

@Zarnikon: If so, then he wouldn't have had the strawhat in the flashback - because following your statment, he would have met Ace earlier.

Jacko

People are forgetting that Oda changed (developed) his art style during the last 11 years. This misunderstanding is just a result of Oda drawing Luffy more chibi-like.

Urian

@syler:

hmm bogart you sat ha?
hmm that might be,but do you think bogart will betray the mraines like that?
i mean he is a marine for a long time,and garp freind right?

sure garp could tell him to do that,but i still think kuma simply makes more since…

just wondering,why isnt songuku calling magellan to marine HQ?
now that ID is down and lots of ppl escaped,im sure he can take a break and go to the marine Hq no?

i just really like magellan since he took out all the BB pirates...seems like magellan is very very powerfull,he is probably in the level of an admiral.

If you use the point of view that I am saying then Bogard isn´t betraying the marines, he is helping to save the life of thousands of marines from this stupid war.

In the current organization of the Navy we have an admiral who doesn´t believe in the absolute justice (Ao Kiji) and two that believe in it (Aka Inu and Kizaru), counting that Sengoku is like the last two then you have a complete image about the changes that marine suffered from Roger to the current era.

It is possible that in Roger era the things were like this:

-Sengoku was the former Ki Zaru.

-Garp was the former Aka Inu.

-Dadan was the former Ao Kiji

Who could be Dadan?

Dadan was a former Admiral in Roger era, he never believed in the absolute justice and we wasn´t 100% loyal to the Gorousei, Garp was the another one but being Garp the one who captured Roger he won the title of "hero of the marines" and he became untouchable for the Gorousei.

Dadan could have abandoned his position as an admiral with the Rouge affair, going against pirates is one thing, but going against a pregnant woman was something beyond any logic of justice, this is why he could have protected here until Garp found them.

Instead of following orders from the World Government Garp gives the false report that the former admiral died for saving the life of his friend and baby Ace. Then Dadan becomes the stepfather of Ace.

10 years later, when the affair between Shanks and Luffy happened Garp was in the south blue and took Dadan and Ace to the east blue to a more secure place, to Garp home with Luffy.

Jdanzi

@Urian:

If you use the point of view that I am saying then Bogard isn´t betraying the marines, he is helping to save the life of thousands of marines from this stupid war.

In the current organization of the Navy we have an admiral who doesn´t believe in the absolute justice (Ao Kiji) and two that believe in it (Aka Inu and Kizaru), counting that Sengoku is like the last two then you have a complete image about the changes that marine suffered from Roger to the current era.

It is possible that in Roger era the things were like this:

-Sengoku was the former Ki Zaru.

-Garp was the former Aka Inu.

-Dadan was the former Ao Kiji

Who could be Dadan?

Dadan was a former Admiral in Roger era, he never believed in the absolute justice and we wasn´t 100% loyal to the Gorousei, Garp was the another one but being Garp the one who captured Roger he won the title of "hero of the marines" and he became untouchable for the Gorousei.

Dadan could have abandoned his position as an admiral with the Rouge affair, going against pirates is one thing, but going against a pregnant woman was something beyond any logic of justice, this is why he could have protected here until Garp found them.

Instead of following orders from the World Government Garp gives the false report that the former admiral died for saving the life of his friend and baby Ace. Then Dadan becomes the stepfather of Ace.

10 years later, when the affair between Shanks and Luffy happened Garp was in the south blue and took Dadan and Ace to the east blue to a more secure place, to Garp home with Luffy.

Lol wut? all your predictions do is make up some shit about characters that we know don't act like that.

I can do it to,

PREVIOUSLY on ONE PIECE!!!!!!

Whitebeard was the former Aka Inu.
BLACKBEARD was the former Ao Kiji
Shanks was the former Ki Zaru.

This was all during the great post-roger pre-luffy era.

Herms

Are the titles admirals have actually passed down? I don't remember if that was said or not.

MagneticMonkey

@Herms:

Are the titles admirals have actually passed down? I don't remember if that was said or not.

Well how do you think the marines solve this problem: "admiral xy died. Or Admiral xy is too old"?
It wasn't explained as far as i can recall but my question remains.

Ouiin

Most likely Luffy lived with Dadan and Ace untill Dadan Died, then Ace took of to the grand line and Luffy met shanks.

Dadan is alive
Luffy met Shanks before Ace

Dark-Abel

@MagneticMonkey:

Well how do you think the marines solve this problem: "admiral xy died. Or Admiral xy is too old"?
It wasn't explained as far as i can recall but my question remains.

I think he was talking about the Aka Inu, Ao Kiji, Ki Zaru titels which I kinda doubt they would be passed down.

Btw could the reason of Garp leaving Luffy at Dadan be that he had to chase after Shanks who just left the island.

MagneticMonkey

@Dark-Abel:

I think he was talking about the Aka Inu, Ao Kiji, Ki Zaru titels which I kinda doubt they would be passed down.

Ah ok. Yes you're right it's just something like a nickname.

threedayslater

I like the idea of Bogart opening the gate, simply because I like Bogart and it would be nice if he actually did something.

Fiasco.

This chapter Oda reminds us just how ugly pirates are.

Buggy is still gaying along.

And the 14 commanders still haven't gotten panel space (besides Marco).

Yashu7

@Ouiin:

Most likely Luffy lived with Dadan and Ace untill Dadan Died, then Ace took of to the grand line and Luffy met shanks

Luffy met Shanks before Ace

Maybe yes, but Luffy got his strawhat after he met Ace, i think.
So he shouldn't has his strawhat then.
Look at this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/04/

Phoenix Zoan

@Yashu7:

Maybe yes, but Luffy got his strawhat after he met Ace, i think.
So he shouldn't has his strawhat then.
Look at this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/04/

No he got the hat before. Garp left him with Dadan to train. When Luffy was with Shanks, Ace wasn't around and Luffy couldn't fight at all. So that tells you he didn't have any training yet. It just looks screwed up since Oda draws kid Luffy as a chibi (post Gear 3rd) now so he looks younger than the earlier Romance Dawn chapters.

Yashu7

@Phoenix:

No he got the hat before. Garp left him with Dadan to train. When Luffy was with Shanks, Ace wasn't around and Luffy couldn't fight at all. So that tells you he didn't have any training yet. It just looks screwed up since Oda draws kid Luffy as a chibi (post Gear 3rd) now so he looks younger than the earlier Romance Dawn chapters.

But Garp said himself in the link i gave above, that he gave Ace and Luffy to his friend (Dadan i think) for training, and then Luffy got "pirated" by Shanks. I don't know, maybe i read wrong xD

antiravage

Best part of the chapter was the NW pirates, looking at them and their chips you truly get the feeling they are real pirates, that's how they are supposed to be.

TLC

@antiravage:

Best part of the chapter was the NW pirates, looking at them and their chips you truly get the feeling they are real pirates, that's how they are supposed to be.

Yes because there's a rule on what a pirate should look like.

Phoenix Zoan

@Yashu7:

But Garp said himself in the link i gave above, that he gave Ace and Luffy to his friend (Dadan i think) for training, and then Luffy got "pirated" by Shanks. I don't know, maybe i read wrong xD

Yeah you're reading it wrong. You're reading it as events that happened in order. Garp left Luffy and Ace for training. Garp wanted Luffy to be a marine but Luffy wanted to be a pirate since he met Shanks and got "pirated" by him. Luffy even calls Garp a fool since it looks like Garp fooled himself into believing Luffy's training would make him into a strong marine instead of a strong pirate.

Zkaiser

@Thousand:

Yes because there's a rule on what a pirate should look like.

Yeah, there is. Just like how Naruto doesn't look like a ninja.

TLC

@Zkaiser:

Yeah, there is. Just like how Naruto doesn't look like a ninja.

Ninjas are supposed to be discreet, silent assassins. Pirates can be whatever the hell they want so long as they steal stuff on a ship.

LightningAce

@Zarnikon:

Most likely Luffy lived with Dadan and Ace untill Dadan Died, then Ace took of to the grand line and Luffy met shanks.

Dadan is still alive.
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-440/page004.html

Hiroy

Yeah, I agree. These guys looks like real classic no good pirates. As expected from the new world.

TLC

@Hiroy:

Yeah, I agree. These guys looks like real classic no good pirates. As expected from the new world.

More like guys simply fitting a stereotype.

ybmc

@Thousand:

More like guys simply fitting a stereotype.

Kay, you can stop right there.

Have a look at famous pirate captains. Not privateers, not corsairs, actual pirates and buccaneers. Notice how they all look cutthroat and fugly. These captains pillaged and plundered and didn't spend any of their money on any provisions other than rum and limes, the rest was gambled or used for more booze. There was a better chance of these guys buying broken weapons than soap. These are people who cared very little about their appearances, which means they would be horrifying looking in person, likely covered in pock marks, horrible burns, broken noses, et cetera.

Now you tell me that being a pirate and being ugly doesn't go hand in hand.

Zyordius

@Thousand:

More like guys simply fitting a stereotype.

It's nice to see guys that look more like classic pirates because a lot of the pirates in One Piece don't look that way. Sure, there have been a few but that's why it's cool to see them once in awhile. Even though they "look" like stereotypes, they have an Oda charm about them present in the lightning mustache, black vertical lines down the face and long mouth and face and to me that overrides the "stereotype" look. Also, saying that would mean that you don't like Hancock because you could say she is a stereotype woman in One Piece, strong yet crumbles for the hero, love powers that turn people to stone, perfect body. A lot of people don't like her because they feel she is just another stereotype but just because some characters slightly fit that bill, it doesn't mean they are a stereotype.

GaaraofTheDesert

A video about the Whitebeard War
OYe1LsG0awE

chaosof99

@LightningAce:

Dadan is still alive.
http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece/chapter-440/page004.html

The mayor of Fuschia Town is called Woop Slap, not Dadan.

Some observations (sorry if a few have been discussed already, didn't read the whole thread):

The Moby Dick displays a soapy shine after it emerges like Nami's and Sanji's bodies when affected by Kalifa's devil fruit power. My guess is that their ship is coated for underwater travel.
Jozu is conspicuously absent.
Isn't this the first time we actually see a dialogue involving Gold Roger?
What was up with Rouge's face being blacked out all the time just to be revealed in the last panel we see her?
Again, uselessly obscuring a new characters face (Dadan).
Mini-flashback might be a precursor to Ace/Luffy Flashback arc.
Fat Usopp reminded me of Kumadori eating out the Enies Lobby kitchen fridge. I get the feeling Usopp might learn Life Return.

SoapBox

I like how the chapter is titled "the Yonkou Whitebeard" as though this blatant assault on the strongest part of th world government is just merely his introduction, and how he appears from undersea literally as close as possible to ALL the strongest people on the world government's side standing alone on top of his ship.

Then he ignores everyone except Sengoku and says it's been a long time and my son better be safe.

This is so fucking epic, whitebeard is so fucking epic.

ctarlong910

@chaosof99:

The mayor of Fuschia Town is called Woop Slap, not Dadan.

you obviously didn't read the page…

Some observations (sorry if a few have been discussed already, didn't read the whole thread):

The Moby Dick displays a soapy shine after it emerges like Nami's and Sanji's bodies when affected by Kalifa's devil fruit power. My guess is that their ship is coated for underwater travel.

They already said that… in the chapter...

Jozu is conspicuously absent.

Isn't this the first time we actually see a dialogue involving Gold Roger?

What was up with Rouge's face being blacked out all the time just to be revealed in the last panel we see her?

Again, uselessly obscuring a new characters face (Dadan).

Mini-flashback might be a precursor to Ace/Luffy Flashback arc.

Fat Usopp reminded me of Kumadori eating out the Enies Lobby kitchen fridge. I get the feeling Usopp might learn Life Return.

nothing to say about these, as far as I can tell they are all true.

chaosof99

@ctarlong910:

you obviously didn't read the page…
They already said that... in the chapter...

-________-
Guess that's what I get from looking too much at pictures and not enough at words :&

Ouiin

@Yashu7:

Maybe yes, but Luffy got his strawhat after he met Ace, i think.
So he shouldn't has his strawhat then.
Look at this http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/432/04/

read your link,nothing related to straw hat
I will say it again,luffy met shanks before ace
the strawhat came from shanks

maxterdexter

@chaosof99:

The Moby Dick displays a soapy shine after it emerges like Nami's and Sanji's bodies when affected by Kalifa's devil fruit power. My guess is that their ship is coated for underwater travel.

Jozu is conspicuously absent.

Isn't this the first time we actually see a dialogue involving Gold Roger?

What was up with Rouge's face being blacked out all the time just to be revealed in the last panel we see her?

Again, uselessly obscuring a new characters face (Dadan).

Mini-flashback might be a precursor to Ace/Luffy Flashback arc.

Fat Usopp reminded me of Kumadori eating out the Enies Lobby kitchen fridge. I get the feeling Usopp might learn Life Return.

1.- We knew since the begining of the chapter
2.- The Marines said that the 14 division commanders were there, so all except Ace and the dead one are there.
3.- Well, when we saw him talking to Raileigh, he didn't talk back.

FireFistAce 0

@chaosof99:

Jozu is conspicuously absent.

No, you can see him, he's just covered up by the speech bubble. He's standing to the left of Marco along with the new 4th Division Commander, who's standing to the right.

Monkey_D_Luffy

I am kind of confused about where Whitebeard and the New World Pirates are. Is the crescent part of Marineford the front or is it the back?

Also, are the New World Pirates right behind Whitebeard's fleet of ships or are they in a different area?

Here is an image of Marineford:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/a/a6/Marineford_island.PNG

Urouge

@Fire Fist:

No, you can see him, he's just covered up by the speech bubble. He's standing to the left of Marco along with the new 4th Division Commander, who's standing to the right.

If there are 14 division commanders and 16 divisions, then the 4th division commander shouldn't have been replaced yet. What makes you think he's the 4th?

Sanjislollypop

Because he's the fourth from left :p

(Well wait, he isn't…).

FireFistAce 0

@Urouge:

If there are 14 division commanders and 16 divisions, then the 4th division commander shouldn't have been replaced yet. What makes you think he's the 4th?

Well, cause it'd be kinda silly to have 1, 3, and say, 8, on the same ship. Since Satch was killed over a year ago by Teach, I'm sure he's been replaced by now. Ace's capture was a little over a month ago, so I doubt Shirohige has found a replacement for him yet. And with 4 ships, it would make sense to have 4 commanders on each ship. Since Marco and Joz can be clearly seen in that picture (though Joz is partially obscured by the text bubble), It's safe to assume the other guy flanking Marco is the 4th Division Commander replacing Satch. That isn't to say it couldn't be the 5th Division Commander… but I'm sure he'd have replaced Satch by now.

Urouge

@Fire Fist:

Well, cause it'd be kinda silly to have 1, 3, and say, 8, on the same ship. Since Satch was killed over a year ago by Teach, I'm sure he's been replaced by now. Ace's capture was a little over a month ago, so I doubt Shirohige has found a replacement for him yet. And with 4 ships, it would make sense to have 4 commanders on each ship. Since Marco and Joz can be clearly seen in that picture (though Joz is partially obscured by the text bubble), It's safe to assume the other guy flanking Marco is the 4th Division Commander replacing Satch. That isn't to say it couldn't be the 5th Division Commander… but I'm sure he'd have replaced Satch by now.

There are also people to the left and right of Joz and the other guy, as well as a guy behind Marco. The point still remains that there are 16 divisions and only 14 commanders, so 2 of them are missing. I agree with you that it feels like he should have been replaced, but the evidence says otherwise.

superquotpetquotrobot

these are awesome scans.

Sanigo

@chaosof99:

Again, uselessly obscuring a new characters face (Dadan).

That was Ace, of Dadan we don't even have the silhouette.

Cyanotic

@Urouge:

There are also people to the left and right of Joz and the other guy, as well as a guy behind Marco. The point still remains that there are 16 divisions and only 14 commanders, so 2 of them are missing. I agree with you that it feels like he should have been replaced, but the evidence says otherwise.

What he said.

Also, how on earth do you figure Ace's capture was a month ago? It's probably more like 2 weeks, at most.

sgamer82

@Monkey_D_Luffy:

I am kind of confused about where Whitebeard and the New World Pirates are. Is the crescent part of Marineford the front or is it the back?

Also, are the New World Pirates right behind Whitebeard's fleet of ships or are they in a different area?

Here is an image of Marineford:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/a/a6/Marineford_island.PNG

The New World pirates are attacking Marineford from the front. Whitebeard's ships came up within the Marineford crescent, behind the defensive lines.