Powerup Predictions and Discussion

Jabra

Do you really think he wasn´t already at Zeff´s level before the timeskip? He could have probably taken Don Krieg if he was serious, but I think Sanji has long surpassed him…

Zeff at his prime could have been easily one of the big shots of the past generation, proper Shichibukai level or even higher.

We don't know much about him, but Krieg pissed his pants the moment he realized who he is, while Mihawk's name didn't ring a bell at all (despite being a Shichibukai). Means even a weakling like Krieg, who doesn't know "$%§, heard about his fame and power.
That said, I think Sanji was around "crippled Zeff's" level at Baratie, but obviously surpassed him after the TS. By the end of the series he will be just as famous, maybe even with the "red leg" ephitet. Meanwhile it really suits him better, with Diable Jambe and all.

YouDNewb

@Jabra:

Zeff at his prime could have been easily one of the big shots of the past generation, proper Shichibukai level or even higher.

We don't know much about him, but Krieg pissed his pants the moment he realized who he is, while Mihawk's name didn't ring a bell at all (despite being a Shichibukai). Means even a weakling like Krieg, who doesn't know "$%§, heard about his fame and power.
That said, I think Sanji was around "crippled Zeff's" level at Baratie, but obviously surpassed him after the TS. By the end of the series he will be just as famous, maybe even with the "red leg" ephitet. Meanwhile it really suits him better, with Diable Jambe and all.

I always thought he would have kept the "black foot/leg" epithet that Sentomarou called him. But the red foot would be fitting or maybe something to do with flames (anything related to red that imposes fear into others.)

Jabra

@YouDNewb:

I always thought he would have kept the "black foot/leg" epithet that Sentomarou called him. But the red foot would be fitting or maybe something to do with flames (anything related to red that imposes fear into others.)

The only problem I have with "Red Leg" is that it would be copied…tho it isn't as bad when it is copied from his former "master". Then the title is just being passed down to the next generation. Sanji fullfilling his and Jeff's dream (all blue), as well as gaining his fame and power. Works for me.

As for Okama based attacks. Sorry, but please no.

There is one scenario I can accept, I don't know who's idea it was, but it was something like "Sanji going Okama mode in the absolute worst situation, when he almost has a mental break down".

A one time thing of sorts. But please not baseline.

Kishido

@Jabra:

The only problem I have with "Red Leg" is that it would be copied…tho it isn't as bad when it is copied from his former "master". Then the title is just being passed down to the next generation. Sanji fullfilling his and Jeff's dream (all blue), as well as gaining his fame and power. Works for me.

As for Okama based attacks. Sorry, but please no.

There is one scenario I can accept, I don't know who's idea it was, but it was something like "Sanji going Okama mode in the absolute worst situation, when he almost has a mental break down".

A one time thing of sorts. But please not baseline.

Well the "Okama Mode" is stupid after all. he can use Okama inspired moves in his "normal" as well without behaving like them. It is just plain stupid from those people to think about the scenario. Would be like Zoro getting into "Mihawk mode" when using one sword style.

And to Zeff… I don't doubt Zeff was a powerful pirate after all. He named the GL as paradise something we learnt way later after hearing about the NW. Maybe he was there as well and is stronger than we think. I still wait for a former rival of Zeff to appear an recognize Sanji's style

BTW Zeff still has one thing that Sanji's hasn't shown so far.... Not really a long range move but something you can see as some hint... Zeff put out the fire of Pearl's fire with one single swing of his leg over a great distance.

Densuke

Kishido

xD Yeah probably like that

Waboshi

I like the sound of "Flame Leg" Sanji.

gottalt3OP

Kuro Ashi no Sanji… No changing that :<

Well, Sanji won't disapoint with his power ups. Well, I'm still waiting for a Sanji bad ass moment. But when it comes, and it will, I will shit bricks!
I don't really fancy that long range move, though. It would be cool and all but I prefer physical battles and not just huge waves of power clashing. That and I like to know what people do in detail, that's why I didn't really enjoy his fight against wadatsumi. It was just an explosion, don't know if he kicked him, where he kicked him... :/ So I would like something cooler... A kick that pierced through the chest would be too gory for jump, but absolutly perfect.

wolfwood

@DemonX:

Do you really think he wasn´t already at Zeff´s level before the timeskip?

As i see it there's been hints strewn all over that Zeff was indeed a new world pirate.

And Sanji before the time-skip wasn't anywhere near ready for the new world.

Cymelion

@wolfwood:

As i see it there's been hints strewn all over that Zeff was indeed a new world pirate.
And Sanji before the time-skip wasn't anywhere near ready for the new world.

I don't know - I have a feeling that like the other Supernova's the SH's would have survived but would have gotten roadblocked by a Yonkou. As it is the Supernova's are alive and …. kinda well .... hey they're alive :ninja:

But with the time skip for Training now they are less likely to have to learn new attacks or defences on the fly and just focus on refining their abilities.

Coruscation

I can't see Zeff being anywhere near as strong as Sanji currently is. Look how weak the guy was back at Baratie. You don't get THAT much weaker if you were once so strong, just look at Rayleigh or even Moria. I think Sanji probably surpassed prime Zeff when he developed Diable Jambe.

wolfwood

Losing his leg is pretty much the equivilent of Mihawk losing both his thumbs.

It's not really something you can compare with Rayleigh getting older, or Moria being fat.

Coruscation

He did get a replacement one and could still kick with it. I know it's a huge handicap and would make him far weaker but I wouldn't go as far as to compare it to Mihawk becoming unable to wield a sword at all. Zeff was taken down by freaking Gin.

Besides, what was his best hype anyway? Denting steel and breaking stone? Luffy broke steel in East Blue. I guess Oda could retcon that however much he wants but it doesn't make sense to me that Zeff was ever a high tier pirate.

Densuke

It's still in no way comparable, the replacment leg is wooden. Even if Zeff was once in the NW it doesn't mean he was at a level anywhere near the top or mid level pirates there. He came back pretty quick referring to the first half as paradise and has been out of commission ever since (22 years).

He could have been at or stronger than Sanji's pre-timeskip and still made it into the NW, look at Brownbeard or those pirates Kidd took out.

gottalt3OP

A guy he thaught was a good guy suddenly broke his wooden leg and pointed a gun at his head. That proves two things: He has no COO, or just couldn't focus because Sanji was getting beaten up (And he's old… even ol' white beard got done by such an attack). He has no CoC, as if he had the fight would be over before it began.
Sanji pre-timeskip wouldn't really do better in that regard.
Now, if wee keep in mind that the wooden leg is normal and would brick if he kicked as hard as he could... And even so he could kick pretty hard. He wasn't that bad. If he was a really big shot or just the average joe of New World... We'll have to wait and see (if we're lucky). :3

Coruscation

Even if Zeff was once in the NW it doesn't mean he was at a level anywhere near the top or mid level pirates there.

That's what I'm saying.

Sanji pre-timeskip wasn't necessarily stronger than Zeff, I just think it makes the most sense that he was. But post-timeskip Sanji? He should be leagues stronger than Zeff ever was. Sanji is full fledged Shichibukai level, nothing ever implies Zeff was that strong and it doesn't make much sense for a guy who was hyped for denting steel to be.

puffing.cinema

I just think that you are making unnecessary affirmations. I'm saying that 'cause we, the readers, clearly don't have much information about Zeff acts in the NW.

What we heard about him, was what the people from the Blue Seas know about him…mind you, the same people who doubt the existence of Devil Fruits...

Kishido

I'm not saying that Zeff was Shichibukai level after all but he was in the NW and was world known… Still this one feat with him putting the flames off with a simple air kick was impressive

And seriously, my feeling at Baratie was, that he let Luffy and Co fight on their own letting Sanji recognize the will to fight for his dream.

I wouldn't be suprised that he could have beat Gin and Krieg back than... Krieg shitted himself seeing Zeff at first. or at least if he still would have to legs. Serious he had a wooden leg who probably wouldn#t be even able to whistand a strong kick as Sanji was doing in EL and so on.

As I said... I hope some sort of rival will recogize Sanji's as Zeff pupil and tell some story

YouDNewb

@Coruscation:

He did get a replacement one and could still kick with it. I know it's a huge handicap and would make him far weaker but I wouldn't go as far as to compare it to Mihawk becoming unable to wield a sword at all. Zeff was taken down by freaking Gin.

Besides, what was his best hype anyway? Denting steel and breaking stone? Luffy broke steel in East Blue. I guess Oda could retcon that however much he wants but it doesn't make sense to me that Zeff was ever a high tier pirate.

He didn't get a "replacement" he got a piece of wood. He lost his foot which then reduces the amount of power you can put into the ground and also a very crucial thing in balance. So you can say he got A lot weaker once he lost his foot.

Redx

@puffing.cinema:

I just think that you are making unnecessary affirmations. I'm saying that 'cause we, the readers, clearly don't have much information about Zeff acts in the NW.

What we heard about him, was what the people from the Blue Seas know about him…mind you, the same people who doubt the existence of Devil Fruits...

This exactly. Oda might make him a high tier even though he wasn't originally intended to be.

wolfwood

Wonder what Zoro's teacher is going to be revealed to be, will he be a former gigant in his field like Shanks, Clover, Tom, Zeff, and Kureha.

Or is he going to be just a good person like Bellemere.

MiyamotoMusashi

@wolfwood:

Wonder what Zoro's teacher is going to be revealed to be, will he be a former gigant in his field like Shanks, Clover, Tom, Zeff, and Kureha.

Or is he going to be just a good person like Bellemere.

Well, i always thought that Koshiro providing food for the Revolutionaries was kind of strange, maybe there is a connection (although i hate to draw the "Revolutionary Card" like many people but in this case it would make sense).

Vash The Stampede

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Well, i always thought that Koshiro providing food for the Revolutionaries was kind of strange, maybe there is a connection (although i hate to draw the "Revolutionary Card" like many people but in this case it would make sense).

General sympathiser with the cause could work.

TheCrystalShip

@wolfwood:

Wonder what Zoro's teacher is going to be revealed to be, will he be a former gigant in his field like Shanks, Clover, Tom, Zeff, and Kureha.

Or is he going to be just a good person like Bellemere.

Wouldn't be surprised if he were a former samurai from Wano.

wolfwood

Huh. Now that you mention it Zoro's teacher is sexist, dresses japanese, and judging by Zoro he upholds the principles of bushido.

Congratulations you've just sold me on this long shot theory of yours

Drake

@wolfwood:

Huh. Now that you mention it Zoro's teacher is sexist, dresses japanese, and judging by Zoro he upholds the principles of bushido.

Congratulations you've just sold me on this long shot theory of yours

Same here.
This seems like the best assumption.

Jabra

@Coruscation:

That's what I'm saying.

Sanji pre-timeskip wasn't necessarily stronger than Zeff, I just think it makes the most sense that he was. But post-timeskip Sanji? He should be leagues stronger than Zeff ever was. Sanji is full fledged Shichibukai level, nothing ever implies Zeff was that strong and it doesn't make much sense for a guy who was hyped for denting steel to be.

Sorry, but Sanji is not on a Shichi level, even after the TS. Think about it, what would be Luffy's currrent level if that would be the case? Admiral? Yonkou?
I realize that people want their favorite characters to be powerful, and there is always room for personal interpretations, but isn't this going a bit too far? He became strong, obviously, but I think people need to remember what it means to be part of the Shichibukai, a group of people who are supposed to balance the freaking world order.
I'm sure he will get there eventually, but there is still a way to go. Like, actually defeating an officer of a Yonkou.

@TheCrystalShip:

Wouldn't be surprised if he were a former samurai from Wano.

Love the idea.

Kishido

This post is deleted!

Jabra

Fighting beside anyone was never an indication of skill or strength. By that logic Luffy is Whitebeard 2.0 because they fought together at Marineford.

I will give you the reason why Sanji got paired with Jinbe, while everyone else got his own individual opponent. But I won't outright state it, instead I will give you a handful of panels illustrating my point. Maybe you come to the same conclusion.

!
Robin joins the crew. Every member except Zoro accepts her.

!
The following arc. Zoro and Robin are paired against Enel.

!
Zoro cares for Robin after she got electrocuted.

!
Robin cares for the defeated Zoro

!
Forward to Enies Lobby. At this point, no one questions that Zoro honestly wants to save Robins life.

!
Usopp gets beaten to the verge of death by the Franky family.

!
Franky and Usopp get both captured by the CP9 and fight their way to Robin

!
Usopp and Franky party hard.

!
Sanj hates Jinbe because he thinks he is responsible for what happened to Nami

!
Jinbe explains the situation, Sanji still doesn't care. I wonder what could make these 2 get along? Hm.

!
Maybe a fight?

!
Et voila, Sanji wants Jinbe to join (like everyone else on the crew.

You are right with one thing tho, Jinbe didn't overshadow Sanji (or anyone else).

Because that was part of the damn plan.

!
Which was a) outright stated by Jinbe + b) confirmed by giving Luffy a bubble coral to battle a overdosed fishmen underwater. Don't you think the job would have been more suitable for…uhm...a fishmen like Jinbe?

As for the Shichibukai power discussion, there is a whole thread for that and I don't bother to repeat it all again. Tho it is funny that Moriah always comes up to show differences in SHichibukai strength, the only one who got singled out by Oda and was officially labeled weaker than the others. Apart from that, there is nothing that suggests a difference in power between the Shichibukai, apart from facefaults and stem expressions.

Edit:

So, it is a "pain in the ass" to discuss with me?
Alright, then don't do it. I actually went through some effort to explain myself, without insulting anyone. And if Corus feels insulted, sorry but that was not my intention.

Kishido

This post is deleted!

Kishido

Yep you are right. Sorry.

Tomatosoup

Jabra: Don't want to quote you because so long of a post, but that's a really cool observation

TheCrystalShip

Also:
Zoro's assertion that they shouldn't jump to conclusions about Robin, after she shot Iceburg.
Sogeking and Franky teaming up to stop Spandam on the Bridge of Hesitation.
Sanji joining in the fight alongside Jinbē because Nami was hurt.

I feel like Luffy is Shichi-level now, and the only Shichi whom Sanji could defeat,
have probably grown much stronger over the timeskip, just like he did.

MiyamotoMusashi

If we have to talk about levels, then i would say that Luffy is Shichi-lvl and Zoro + Sanji are at average VA-lvl. Jinbe is at his strongest in the water but i think that on land Zoro and Sanji are as strong as him.

Coruscation

You are right with one thing tho, Jinbe didn't overshadow Sanji (or anyone else).

Because that was part of the damn plan.

No it wasn't. Luffy was supposed to take the credit for Hody. Jimbei wasn't restricted at all in any other way.

They didn't just "fight together". Oda showed Sanji matching Jimbei's absolute strongest move shown no problem. He went out of his way to make mirror scenes with a water punch and a fire kick. He had Sanji take hits from both Luffy & Jimbei at the same time and be no worse off than them too. It's not an argument to just ignore the implications of these several pieces of evidence because you don't like the idea of Sanji being Shichi-level. Oda clearly established him as being perfectly well on Jimbei's level during the FI arc. You can choose to look away from the evidence but that doesn't mean it's not there. As for the relative strength of Shichis, it's established that Luffy is stronger than Jimbei since Jimbei said he wanted to join Luffy's crew. So either Luffy's above all the Shichibukai or they vary in power.

Kishido

This post is deleted!

gottalt3OP

Wut? Sanji kicked a ball.
That only proves he would be a great striker.
Jinbei roundhouse kicked the punch that easily ko'd the krakken (I already said I won't make assumptions for how this compares with Luffy's punch).
This was done with no effort whatsoever… He just turned and kicked.
Pre-Timeskip he was shown matching gear 3 with a normal punch (Against the minobeasts).

And yes, it was part of the damn plan.
The plan was "If humans save Fishman Island, the hatred will go away!"
If Jinbei was shown powerful enough to deal with it, it wouldn't be fun.
And why would Jinbei do that? He was up against the giant, and they used that to defeat a big number of pwns. There wasn't really any room for more. And we had half of a fucking arc showing how strong Jinbei is.
The guy was doing everything Luffy did WAYY BETTER, (he catched a charging Gear 2 Luffy, don't forget that) and then said he was sorry for is weakness over water...
And he fucking fought to a draw against ACE! A commander from Whitebeard... (He didn't do that well at the war, but god damn it, he was cuffed for like 1 month or 2, getting beaten up. Was emotionally unstable, and was facing a marine admiral...)
How could Sanji be at that level? Sanji's kick just grilled a tentacle... That's a fair way to compare them, I think...

TheCrystalShip

Oda went out of his way to show us that, on land, Sanji and Jinbē are equals.
The thing is, Sanji would probably have his ass handed to him in the water, LOL.

P1nk

@TheCrystalShip:

Oda went out of his way to show us that, on land, Sanji and Jinbē are equals.
The thing is, Sanji would probably have his ass handed to him in the water, LOL.

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/one-piece/605/13/

Speed wise Sanji has become pretty fast underwater, and has already fought a Fishman once underwater when none of the other crew had, add that along with Haki, I don't think his chances would be that drastically low.

Superbear 22

@P1nk:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/one-piece/605/13/

Speed wise Sanji has become pretty fast underwater, and has already fought a Fishman once underwater when none of the other crew had, add that along with Haki, I don't think his chances would be that drastically low.

And with the aid of Haki (possibly) he can burn things while underwater.

P1nk

@Superbear:

And with the aid of Haki (possibly) he can burn things while underwater.

This might have been stated before but if he can move that fast underwater, wouldn't it be likely that he can move as fast or faster on land. Maybe he invented his own form of Soru.

I'm still not quite sure how Haki makes fire though.

TheCrystalShip

@P1nk:

This might have been stated before but if he can move that fast underwater, wouldn't it be likely that he can move as fast or faster on land. Maybe he invented his own form of Soru.

It's a form of Geppō. Its equivalent on land is Sky Walk.

P1nk

@TheCrystalShip:

It's a form of Geppō. Its equivalent on land is Sky Walk.

The speed in which he moves seems to be illustrated differently though. Do you think it's possible it's a mix of geppo and
Soru like Luccis used.

Kishido

I think as well He is mixing up Geppou and some sort of Soru similar to Kamisori of Lucci

gottalt3OP

So now Sanji has "not-so-low" chances of beating Jinbei underwater.
And Oda went "out of his way" to show us Jinbei and Sanji are equals. And I just got rule 11'd… Thank you guys..

YouDNewb

Wait what? people are saying Sanji could compete with Jinbei under water?

Next people will be saying Buggy could have actually killed Whitebeard….

Kishido

@YouDNewb:

Wait what? people are saying Sanji could compete with Jinbei under water?

Next people will be saying Buggy could have actually killed Whitebeard….

Most of us meant Land Jinbe.

In water he owns Luffy even more than Sanji and Zoro, who would still lose

YouDNewb

@KiShiDo:

Most of us meant Land Jinbe.

In water he owns Luffy even more than Sanji and Zoro, who would still lose

Oh on land there might be a slim chance Sanji could win. But in water he would be annihilated. I would almost feel sorry for Sanji if he lost to Jinbe under water, but then I would ask myself why he even attempted to beat him while he was in the water.

Oh and in reference to the whole Geppou mix with Soru talk. And how he moves fast underwater, he is just using the same technique; kicking the water (instead of air) with his extremely strong leg strength to make himself move faster then if he were to swim normally, in essence he is running under water. (in my opinion)

Kishido

@YouDNewb:

Oh on land there might be a slim chance Sanji could win. But in water he would be annihilated. I would almost feel sorry for Sanji if he lost to Jinbe under water, but then I would ask myself why he even attempted to beat him while he was in the water.

And now this damn topic should rest.

gottalt3OP

@YouDNewb:

Wait what? people are saying Sanji could compete with Jinbei under water?

Next people will be saying Buggy could have actually killed Whitebeard….

Glad I'm not he only one seeing the absurdity in that statement.

Now we can let that topic rest.

What do you guys think will be Robin's main power up?
We saw the huge legs and all, but that's hardly the best use for her devil fruit…