I'm guessing that the bird on his head's just for show (like that CP9 dude's bird).
The bird on his head is not real, it is literally part of the hat.
Can Fleet-Admiral Sengoku fight?
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Okay, so we have a basic understanding that Sengoku will most likely be a fighter. Now here is another question:
When and if Sengoku decides to fight, who do you think his opponent will be?
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probably he'll start to fight when all of the admirals and schichibukai are down(yeah including blackbeard), and he'll fight whitebeard like good old days.
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i think we need a poll, a think he's badass, afta all look how he fronts up to doflamingo without the slightest concern, oh scum of the sea, so yeah he rocks
@123:
Hell yea Sengoku can fight.
Wonder where all the admirals from the time when Sengoku was admiral went? Maybe they got killed by pirates.
EDIT: Indeed he maybe a good tactician but then again this is the marines of OP we are talking about,so theres a high chance he's a top tier fighter.i think all the admiral/vice admirals replace the elder stars as they die, like theres only aloud to hav five and when one dies hes replaced by fleet admiral who's job inturn is replaed by an admiral, u just hav to look at the five stars to see the possibily. only my thorts though
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Of cause he can fight, even the "weakest" SH can fight too,
but i don't think his strength is greater than those 3 admiral, those 3 are the strongest of marine fighting force.Sengoku is just Spadam 2.0 version, he is an all rounded marine headman, he have the brain mostly the cunning one, and some not bad fighting skill.
I don't think you need to be stronger than the admiral to be a Fleet admiral.
He no need to do all the dirty job, all he need to do is collect 3 insanely strong subordinate to make him a Fleet admiral. -
Sengoku is just Spadam 2.0 version, he is an all rounded marine headman, he have the brain mostly the cunning one, and some not bad fighting skill.
Stop spewing nonsense. Sengoku was an admiral. It makes sense that you'd have to go up all the ranks to get to Fleet Admiral.
I don't think you need to be stronger than the admiral to be a Fleet admiral.
Doesn't matter since Sengoku was an admiral anyway.
He no need to do all the dirty job, all he need to do is collect 3 insanely strong subordinate to make him a Fleet admiral.
Completely retarded.
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i agree that sengoku can definitely fight, but won't.
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Sengoku's dead, his dead body is being controlled by DoFlamingo.
In seriousness though, I think he used to be very strong, there may be something limiting his strength now though which made him take an administrative position. Either that or he's still insanely strong.
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isn't aokiji just the strongest man at Marine HQ?
Sengoku seems to exclusively operate from the Holy Land for what we have seen thus far, so who knows, he might be stronger than Aokiji after all. Probably the last line of defense like some of you commented, which makes me wonder if Fisher Tiger killed the past Fleet Admiral when he attacked the Holy Land.
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I would imagine that Sengoku is among the strongest or the marines. If he was just some Spandam-ish administrator he probably wouldn't be called a Fleet Admiral. It's very likely that he's ascended through the ranks, and we all know that doing that in this story requires a great deal of strength, since higher ranks = greater power here. It would be possible that he could be some kind of tactical genius and could have is rank for that reason alone, but he hasn't shown enough strategical prowess to indicate this so far. Another reason that would lead me to believe he might be powerful is the fact that in chapter 434 pg 9 Whitebeard mentions his name along with Garp and Roger as people that knew the sea "back then."
In any case, other than the fact that he hasn't fought yet, we have no reason to believe that he's not powerful.
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@Zik:
Stop spewing nonsense. Sengoku was an admiral. It makes sense that you'd have to go up all the ranks to get to Fleet Admiral.
It also make sense that Spadam go up to the head of CP9 with all his cunning skill, relationship and his super strong subordinate. We never know what the hack will be going on since Oda haven't review it yet.
Completely retarded.
You are so smart that you are taking things so seriously.
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@SombreroDPaja:
isn't aokiji just the strongest man at Marine HQ?
That was talking about the marine admirals as being the strongest military force of the marines. People keep on saying that it said Aokiji was the strongest though.
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It also make sense that Spadam go up to the head of CP9 with all his cunning skill, relationship and his super strong subordinate. We never know what the hack will be going on since Oda haven't review it.
The marines and WG operatives are clearly 2 different factions. I'll make this example in the army you have to start from a private to work your way to being a general through participation in wars and many other combat situations, that would be what the marines are in OP. WG operatives/CP9 are more like FBI agents where you can be at a desk for 10 years and then be leading an assassination mission on a president.
You are so smart that you are taking things so seriously.
It is still retarded.
Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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@Zik:
The marines and WG operatives are clearly 2 different factions. I'll make this example in the army you have to start from a private to work your way to being a general through participation in wars and many other combat situations, that would be what the marines are in OP. WG operatives/CP9 are more like FBI agents where you can be at a desk for 10 years and then be leading an assassination mission on a president.
So, you really think Sengoku is stronger than Admiral in term of strength?
Did a General of the Army have to be shoot sharper than an army?It is still retarded.
you simply can't accept different opinion.
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@Zik:
The marines and WG operatives are clearly 2 different factions. I'll make this example in the army you have to start from a private to work your way to being a general through participation in wars and many other combat situations, that would be what the marines are in OP. WG operatives/CP9 are more like FBI agents where you can be at a desk for 10 years and then be leading an assassination mission on a president.
Actually you don't start at a private to become a general. Privates are enlisted men and go up through the non-commissioned officer chain. That means they become Sergeant up to Sergeant Majors.
To become a General you start as a Lieutenant as a commissioned officer, which it can be said that a lot of officers just work as administration.
I do agree with your point, just saying that you used a bad example. >_>;
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Did a General of the Army have to be shoot sharper than an army?
Actually in the army, especially in the infantry, the people with the higher pt scores, more tours of duty, and more qualifications (Airborne, Ranger, Air Assault, Special Forces, etc.) get promotions a shit load quicker. If you look at most of our main Generals now, they're all Airborne/Air Assault Rangers.
Wheel of morality turn, turn, turn.
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@Zik:
The marines and WG operatives are clearly 2 different factions. I'll make this example in the army you have to start from a private to work your way to being a general through participation in wars and many other combat situations, that would be what the marines are in OP. WG operatives/CP9 are more like FBI agents where you can be at a desk for 10 years and then be leading an assassination mission on a president.
It is still retarded.
You take this "absolute truth" thing really seriously, huh?
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Actually you don't start at a private to become a general. Privates are enlisted men and go up through the non-commissioned officer chain. That means they become Sergeant up to Sergeant Majors.
To become a General you start as a Lieutenant as a commissioned officer, which it can be said that a lot of officers just work as administration.
Sigh You got the point though.
So, you really think Sengoku is stronger than Admiral in term of strength?
When did I say that? When? The question is "Can Fleet-Admiral Sengoku fight?" I'm saying yes and not only that but he was once an admiral himself therefore he's top tier.
you simply can't accept different opinion.
The whole him being an admiral means what you said is false. Unless you're gonna say admirals aren't strong.
You take this "absolute truth" thing really seriously, huh?
I know not what you speak of…..........
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Actually in the army, especially in the infantry, the people with the higher pt scores, more tours of duty, and more qualifications (Airborne, Ranger, Air Assault, Special Forces, etc.) get promotions a shit load quicker. If you look at most of our main Generals now, they're all Airborne/Air Assault Rangers.
I agree what you said, General do have an average good skill,
My point is, Sengoku can fight, may be he is a good fighter, but he not necessarily to be stronger than Admiral. I just think Sengoku can make it to Fleet admiral is because of his administrative skill and his leadership and may be some relationship. -
@Zik:
I know not what you speak of…..........
I was just commenting on how zealously you defend your opinions.
p.s. define "zealously", in this context, as "I'M FUCKING ABSOLUTELY RIGHT FUCK OFF", or something similar.
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Zik, just shut up, you are a noob who takes himself and this manga way too seriously, GET A LIFE YOU LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@"all who are saying that sengoku is not the strongest marine"
Are you all ignoring WBs words? Sengoku is a legend who knows the see. He has been an admiral. If he is still on admiral level we would have heard about aokiji Akainu and Kizaru also being legends. Or what do you think about this argument? -
wanckers, that's all I have to say
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Sengoku ate the zoan fruit sayajin sayjin no mi, which of course makes him invincible.
Pwncoat does not need any DF or Haki, he just needs to look at people to make them instantly faint. -
Mabe in his time, he was the strongest Admiral. However, in present time, since he has to do all the paperwork and plan marine movements, he is most likely a little rusty in the fighting area. Although, that doesn't mean that he can't kick his share of pirate ass.
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Mabe in his time, he was the strongest Admiral. However, in present time, since he has to do all the paperwork and plan marine movements, he is most likely a little rusty in the fighting area. Although, that doesn't mean that he can't kick his share of pirate ass.
I agree with you completely.
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Since Spandam came up - Spandam was an exception, not a rule. In almost every other combat "team" in OP, the leader has been the most powerful one. And even in CP9, Lucci did seem to command more respect from his peers than Spandam did.
Rest all has been stated by Zik, and I don't think I have much to add. Sengoku, is top tier. Even now. See, there is a difference between "can't fight", and "doesn't need to fight".
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You speak the truth Xai. It's not that Sengoku can't fight, but chooes not to. Although, with the coming war against WB, maybe we will see some Sengoku action.
Like if some WB pirates somehow got to his office, he will stare sternly, sigh, then kick ass without any of them realizing that they were hit. After said pwnage, he'll sigh again and say
"I'm just not as strong as I used to be." -
Sengoku is to me a marines trump card. If everything goes wrong and the admirals have problems fighting a strong opponent Sengoku will jump in.
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When I think of Sengoku, for some rason I think he will have a fighting style like Sentamaru. You know, sumo like moves with a little Tekkai and Soru thrown in. Then of course, haki of a god (heh, jk)
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Also, and this might be complete speculation, I believe that Sengoku, at some point on the past, was WB's "nemesis" of sorts. Something of what Garp was to Roger and Smoker is to Luffy. "Nemesis" might be too strong a word, but you should get what I mean, nonetheless. I say this because WB remembers Garp and Sengoku with respect, and a feeling of "I-wish-the-good-ol'-days-were-back".
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^^I think the word your looking for is rivalry.
Sure, rivalry would probably be better suited for pirate vs pirate, or marine vs marine. However, pirates and marines could have rivalries like the pirate constantly eludes the marine, so the marine vows never to rest until that pirate is caught. When either of the parties lose in a rivalry, the victor usually feels like they are now living a life of monotomy.
So I think rivalry is a good word to describe what you are talking about.
I agree with you Xai, WB and Sengoku were most likely 'rivals'.
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@Shuhan1288:
However, pirates and marines could have rivalries like the pirate constantly eludes the marine, so the marine vows never to rest until that pirate is caught.
i.e. Smoker and Luffy.
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It also make sense that Spadam go up to the head of CP9 with all his cunning skill, relationship and his super strong subordinate. We never know what the hack will be going on since Oda haven't review it yet.
Spandam is the director of a government agency, Sengoku is the top chief of a military force. You can't compare the two with each other. Even if intelligence agencies have well trained fighters among them a huge lot is simply bureaucrats which still can get high promotions due to their bureaucratic skills.
For the military however promotions come with display of strenght and strategic skill. The military has to stand for power, so even if you need a intelligent person, he doesn't count much if he's not a fighter.
In this very situation, there's a long way to go to the top. Sengoku didn't become Fleet Admiral straight after he did the Odd Jobs. He was Admiral before that. And before an Admiral there's plenty of high ranks like Vice Admiral, Rear Admiral, Commodore and Captain to just mention the big ones. Do you really think he received that much lucky undeserving promotions if he couldn't display his fighting strenght at some point. Not to mention that Whitebeard mentions him in the same breath among with legends like Garp and Roger.
That was talking about the marine admirals as being the strongest military force of the marines. People keep on saying that it said Aokiji was the strongest though.
Nope, he's clearly been labeled as the Marine HQ's strongest by the Gorosei. The thing about the three Admirals being the WG's strongest military force is a different thing and was first mentioned by Robin. Putting those two together means that Kuzan is actually the strongest of the three.
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Spandam is the director of a government agency, Sengoku is the top chief of a military force. You can't compare the two with each other. Even if intelligence agencies have well trained fighters among them a huge lot is simply bureaucrats which still can get high promotions due to their bureaucratic skills.
For the military however promotions come with display of strenght and strategic skill. The military has to stand for power, so even if you need a intelligent person, he doesn't count much if he's not a fighter.
In this very situation, there's a long way to go to the top. Sengoku didn't become Fleet Admiral straight after he did the Odd Jobs. He was Admiral before that. And before an Admiral there's plenty of high ranks like Vice Admiral, Rear Admiral, Commodore and Captain to just mention the big ones. Do you really think he received that much lucky undeserving promotions if he couldn't display his fighting strenght at some point. Not to mention that Whitebeard mentions him in the same breath among with legends like Garp and Roger.
Nope, he's clearly been labeled as the Marine HQ's strongest by the Gorosei. The thing about the three Admirals being the WG's strongest military force is a different thing and was first mentioned by Robin. Putting those two together means that Kuzan is actually the strongest of the three.
Er! I just want to tell everyone that i never said Sengoku can't fight!
I said before that Sengoku is Spandam 2.0, does not means that he is as weak as Spandam. He have great bureaucratic skills than Spandam, he fight better than Spandam,he have the strongest subordinate, and he may as well smarter/much cunning than Spandam. or should i said he is Spandam 3.0 then everyone should be happy?? :pIn my opinion, i think that Sengoku is an all rounded marine top gun, he is strong, but i emphasis on his intelligence, you are an Admiral material doesn't really make you a Fleet Admiral material. Especially Aokiji is too sentimental to let his pray go.
I heard people saying that Sengoku is stronger than Those 3 Admiral..
aren't Aokiji is the strongest marine fighting force??? -
Er! I just want to tell everyone that i never said Sengoku can't fight!
I said before that Sengoku is Spandam 2.0, does not means that he is as weak as Spandam. He have great bureaucratic skills than Spandam, He have the strongest subordinate, and he may as well smarter/much cunning than Spandam. or should i said he is Spandam 3.0 then everyone should be happy?? :pYou can call him Spandam 4.0 and the argument would still come over the same since Spandam is nothing but a bureaucrat. He is at no point a fighter which if you say Spandam 5.0 about Sengoku means that Sengoku 6.0 can't 7.0 fight either 8.0.9.0.
I heard people saying Sengoku is stronger than Those 3 Admiral..
aren't Aokiji is the strongest marine fighting force???Well, being the top of the fleet Sengoku actually is THE connection between the WG and the military force. So it might be that his place is Maryjoa rather then the Marine HQ, with which he couldn't be considered in that statement.
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You can call him Spandam 4.0 and the argument would still come over the same since Spandam is nothing but a bureaucrat. He is at no point a fighter which if you say Spandam 5.0 about Sengoku means that Sengoku 6.0 can't 7.0 fight either 8.0.9.0.
If you guys don't like i use Spandam for example, then i don't use it anymore..
for me he really have some similar identical like Spandam. (this is the last time, ok?)
1. Great bureaucratic skills
2. probably his subordinate are stronger than him
3. Cunning -
If you guys don't like i use Spandam for example, then i don't use it anymore..
for me he really have some similar identical like Spandam. (this is the last time, ok?)
1. Great bureaucratic skills
2. probably his subordinate are stronger than him
3. Cunning4. He went through the ranks Admiral, Vice Admiral, Rear Admiral, Commodore and Captain only because of his 1 - 3 and not because he might be a good fighter.
5. Whitebeard only thinks highly of him because Sengoku always wins at Mahjong. -
Whaleblue, you do have good points. The only reason people are bent out of shape about your Spandam analogy is because they don't want to sully Sengoku's prestige, nor do I.
On your point about Spandam, Spandam was a brilliant tactitian, if not for his sinister schemes. He knew how the people would react to certain situations ( of course this is moot when put up against the Strawhats) and used their reactions to his advantage.
In kindred spirit, Sengoku is also a brilliant tactition because of his ability to read current events and plan accordingly ( this is also moot when up against the Strawhats!)
So in a sense, your examples are somewhat true, it's just that they are different in their plans. -
Nope, he's clearly been labeled as the Marine HQ's strongest by the Gorosei. The thing about the three Admirals being the WG's strongest military force is a different thing and was first mentioned by Robin. Putting those two together means that Kuzan is actually the strongest of the three.
Admirals = "WG's strongest" (said by Robin)
Aokiji = "MHQ's strongest" (said by Gorosei)
Kizaru = "Marines' strongest" (said by random pirate in 507)
Kizaru = "MHQ's strongest" (said by Apoo in 510)
Aokiji = "strongest because he is a logia" (according to databook)
Kizaru = also a logia (said by himself in 511)Putting these six together, nobody said Aokiji is stronger than Kizaru.
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@Shuhan1288:
Whaleblue, you do have good points. The only reason people are bent out of shape about your Spandam analogy is because they don't want to sully Sengoku's prestige, nor do I.
On your point about Spandam, Spandam was a brilliant tactitian, if not for his sinister schemes. He knew how the people would react to certain situations ( of course this is moot when put up against the Strawhats) and used their reactions to his advantage.
In kindred spirit, Sengoku is also a brilliant tactition because of his ability to read current events and plan accordingly ( this is also moot when up against the Strawhats!)
So in a sense, your examples are somewhat true, it's just that they are different in their plans.I appreciate your good hearted comment. Thanks.
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No problem Whaleblue. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Okay let's swich gears for a second. I know I'm going to regret this, so please keep all of your nonsense to a minimum
Since it has been established by most of you that Sengoku is indeed a fighter, it's time to address one other matter( God help me):
If Sengoku is a fighter, if incorperated, what purpose would Pwngoat serve in his fighting style? ( As in, if he consumed a DF or not)
Please for the love of God, be serious!:sad:
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Admirals = "WG's strongest" (said by Robin)
Aokiji = "MHQ's strongest" (said by Gorosei)
Kizaru = "Marines' strongest" (said by random pirate in 507)
Kizaru = "MHQ's strongest" (said by Apoo in 510)
Aokiji = "strongest because he is a logia" (according to databook)
Kizaru = also a logia (said by himself in 511)Putting these six together, nobody said Aokiji is stronger than Kizaru.
Apoo didn't say he was MHQ's strongest he said he wouldn't be worthy of being called MH's "ultimate attack force" if he was taken out that easily, and that is what the three of them are known as.
Also that random pirate didn't call him MHQ's strongest either, Aokiji is the only one clearly referred to as "MHQ's strongest" whereas the others have always been referred to collectively as the Marines "ultimate attack force" or some other variant.
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Yep, Blue Pheasant pretty much nailed it. Point is that the three Admirals are labeled as the strongest powers of the WG. Thus every single one of them can be recognized as such. This what Apoo did.
As far as a ranking among those three is concerned, we have only one statement in the manga thus far. And that's the one made by the Gorosei labeling Kuzan as the strongest of the HQ.
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Apoo didn't say he was MHQ's strongest he said he wouldn't be worthy of being called MH's "ultimate attack force" if he was taken out that easily, and that is what the three of them are known as.
He did say he was the MHQ's strongest. "Ultimate attack force" is just another way of translating it. The raw text is 海軍本部最高戦力 in both cases, which breaks down to this:
海軍 = navy
本部 = headquarters
最高 = the highest
戦力 = war potentialAlso that random pirate didn't call him MHQ's strongest either, Aokiji is the only one clearly referred to as "MHQ's strongest" whereas the others have always been referred to collectively as the Marines "ultimate attack force" or some other variant.
No, the random pirate said Marines' strongest. It doesn't really make a difference though as they were all talking the same thing. There is no intended difference between saying WG's strongest, Marines' strongest, MHQ's strongest or just strongest. They're all talking about the same thing.
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He did say he was the MHQ's strongest. "Ultimate attack force" is just another way of translating it.
That's the point. ALL the three Admirals are the ultimate attack force. That's what they are labeled. It's the group that is labeled as such. And therefore as I just previously said, every single member of said group has the right to be considered part of the ultimate attack force. Otherwise he shouldn't belong to said group.
That however (as I also said before) does not mean, that within this three ultimate elite fighters can't be a strenght ranking. And so far the only statement in that direction has been made by the Gorosei and it refered to Kuzan.
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That's the point. ALL the three Admirals are the ultimate attack force. That's what they are labeled. It's the group that is labeled as such. And therefore as I just previously said, every single member of said group has the right to be considered part of the ultimate attack force. Otherwise he shouldn't belong to said group.
That however (as I also said before) does not mean, that within this three ultimate elite fighters can't be a strenght ranking. And so far the only statement in that direction has been made by the Gorosei and it refered to Kuzan.
Did you even read what I said? The Gorosei said the same thing as everyone else. They said, quite literally, that he was the greatest attack force of the MHQ. It was translated as him being the strongest person, because at that time, we didn't know there were any other admirals.
So there can be a strength ranking within the admirals. I'm sure there is. But nobody, Gorosei included, has commented on it.
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Did you even read what I said? The Gorosei said the same thing as everyone else. They said, quite literally, that he was the greatest attack force of the MHQ. It was translated as him being the strongest person, because at that time, we didn't know there were any other admirals.
So there can be a strength ranking within the admirals. I'm sure there is. But nobody, Gorosei included, has commented on it.
Ahh, now I get what you mean. You do have a point though. Never looked at it that way, but it can actually really just be meant the same way as I made the argument for Borsalino. Well thanks for the input then, I stand corrected.
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Of course Sengoku can fight, He was an admiral which makes his roughly an equal to Aokiji or Kizaru with room for the same kind of slight deterioration as Garp, Basicly at the level when everyone who is not at the top of the world would be raped. And i dont think anyone in their right mind would think his rep for being merciless in executing the WGs orders came from pencil pushing.
