Shichibukai strength

[Elric]

People all around the world like to ask translators about the databook pages of their favourite characters. It so happens Mihawk has got a lot of fans. You think they need you to check it out? If there would have been even the slightest clue for that elemental stuff to be true we would be seeing it in signatures and versus threads everywhere already.

[igetownd]

This post is deleted!

[Besserwisser]

@Elric:

People all around the world like to ask translators about the databook pages of their favourite characters. It so happens Mihawk has got a lot of fans. You think they need you to check it out? If there would have been even the slightest clue for that elemental stuff to be true we would be seeing it in signatures and versus threads everywhere already.

Maybe it doesn’t stand in the yellow Databook (most probably I read it in the month of December). But even without an entry about this topic it gives a slightest clue for that element stuff because the breath technique from Zoro. It is presumably that Mihawk can as the best swordsman this technique in perfection.

[_Bastard_]

@choperman:

Well it defiantly doesn't seem that there on the same level, i think in ranking of strength it goes like

–-Strongest---
Blackbeard
Dracule "Hawk-Eye" Mihawk
Donquixote Doflamingo
Bartholomew Kuma
Gecko Moria
Sir crocodile
---Weakest---

and I don't know anything about the other two besides Jinbei's name and the fact that he's a fishman

I usually don't bother with these threads, but I like the ranking in this post. If Mihawk and BB are two of the final villains (there have been tons of hints pointing to this), then they will definitely be the strongest. There have been some hints that Doflamingo is above (or perhaps on the same level as) Kuma. Moria and Crocodile have already shown they are both inferior. Jinbei will probably be slotted behind Kuma, but there is no evidence to point to this.

After the latest ass-whooping, a lot of people are defending Kuma's strength, but I think we have already seen (or it has been implied) at least a dozen or so characters that could take him one on one. I think a lot of people are smitten over his power only because it's the latest one we've seen. Later on, I'm sure a lot of people will be like "OMGSH WTF DoFlamingo iS a FUCkinG BEAsT. HOLY SHIIIIIIT HE CAN TAKE ON WHITEBEARD BY HIMSELF!!!"

[Gaiyae]

@freedom:

Actually, on the contrary… The entire hypothesis and fan-speculation about Mihawk being able to cut elements probably came about because it's hard to believe he is the Strongest Swordsman if some no-name logia could come along and defeat him.
Oda gave us a little hint at how characters like Whitebeard and Mihawk are possibly able to defeat these logia characters. I'm betting is has nothing to do with "logia" abilities, but just simply being able to attack the person. We had Rayleigh cutting Kizaru across the cheek, and we have Sentoumaru harming luffy with direct blunt attacks. Indicating that there exists a way to hard DF-users despite what fruit they possess.

That's actually not what i meant. I wasn't implying Mihawk isn't capable of hitting/cutting Logia's. But i don't think he is able to cut the elements. Rayleight doesn't seem able to cut Kizaru's light sword. But he was able to hit Rayleight, proven by him bleeding. So i think there is something else that enables Rayleight to hit/cut a logia (not cutting a element, which is way to hax if you ask me) . I'm placing my bets on Haki.

[Kaze]

You know? If black beard has to take all of the attacks normally, you just have to attack him enough to where he can't hold it in and he'll die, just like a real black hole. once you fill it up it destroys it's self.

Also, If BB has to take the attack like a normal person, the paw paw fruit would kick his ass.

"hit me with everythin' you've go-"

"We'll never meet again." paw nukes then paw shots the shit out of bb into the sea."

[onemoment]

@Kaze:

You know? If black beard has to take all of the attacks normally, you just have to attack him enough to where he can't hold it in and he'll die, just like a real black hole. once you fill it up it destroys it's self.

Also, If BB has to take the attack like a normal person, the paw paw fruit would kick his ass.

"hit me with everythin' you've go-"

"We'll never meet again." paw nukes then paw shots the shit out of bb into the sea."

In the latest chapter, it seems that Kuma leaves a paw mark on the spot this enemy lands. Based on this, would this ability even work in the water? How could Kuma leave this make in the water as a devil fruit user? There's a good chance this strategy isn't possible.

[brennen.exe]

@onemoment:

In the latest chapter, it seems that Kuma leaves a paw mark on the spot this enemy lands. Based on this, would this ability even work in the water? How could Kuma leave this make in the water as a devil fruit user? There's a good chance this strategy isn't possible.

I would assume that the mark isn't necessary, and is only a means of making their landing lighter. Otherwise, there would be marks on the floor every time Kuma moves himself from place to place in the same manner. (Assuming that is what he is doing when he fought Zoro/Luffy).

[phyrros]

@Kaze:

You know? If black beard has to take all of the attacks normally, you just have to attack him enough to where he can't hold it in and he'll die, just like a real black hole. once you fill it up it destroys it's self.

aehm, a black hole never "fills" up - thats the principle of a black hole, it just gets bigger, 'n bigger, 'n bigger - you get the point…

Same thing goes for BB: He generates a black hole, sucks in objects and spits out the disordered form. If he would actually die while containing a black hole the whole OP universe would be sucked into BB which would grant him the title "pirate king"...

[wolfwood]

Id rankt them as follows

Strongest: Blackbeard, Mihawk

Weakest:Kuma,Croc, and Moria.

[Urian]

Could be possible that Gold Lion Shiki from the upcoming 10th movie is the last Shichibukai?

[Herr Krokodil]

If crocodile and moria are so weak then why make them shichibukai in the first place? why not have the stronger ones kill them

[Captain Shmeckie]

Hell, I give up. I've tried to explain it, but no one listens. Y'all wanna think Croc and Moria are weak, go ahead. You'll be dead wrong, but go ahead.

[dlo62282]

Hell, I give up. I've tried to explain it, but no one listens. Y'all wanna think Croc and Moria are weak, go ahead. You'll be dead wrong, but go ahead.

Yeah so who is croc stronger than? So far he is the weakest shichibukai, am i right?

[Zik]

PPL just don't understand I guess if they really believe Croc and Moria are the weakest. Why must there be a ranking system of weakest to strongest. I would love for Oda to prove you idiots wrong in a data book or in a SBS.

Yeah so who is croc stronger than? So far he is the weakest shichibukai, am i right?

So you rank the shichibukai on what order they get defeated in? that's just stupid. Outside of BB if Luffy faced any shichi instead of Croc and Moria first he would've beaten them. Then you idiots woulda been calling them the weakest. sigh
@Urian:

Could be possible that Gold Lion Shiki from the upcoming 10th movie is the last Shichibukai?

There's pros and cons to it. i'd like that movie to be good since I hear its canon with the manga but that means we won't be seeing the last shichi until '09 and I hate waiting.

[darklazer57]

@dlo62282:

Yeah so who is croc stronger than? So far he is the weakest shichibukai, am i right?

1v1 against Moria, I'd say Croc beats him.

[wolfwood]

Honestly whos calling them weak ? Its a fricking ranking somebody has to be first and somebody has to be last. But that doesnt mean the diffrence betwenn them is huge.

[ultimec1a]

@wolfwood:

Honestly whos calling them weak ? Its a fricking ranking somebody has to be first and somebody has to be last. But that doesnt mean the diffrence betwenn them is huge.

If you actually read all of the posts, you would know that a good amount of people find them weak, one went even as far as to say that Zoro could take Crocodile!:shocked:

[123]

@dlo62282:

Yeah so who is croc stronger than? So far he is the weakest shichibukai, am i right?

No,NO, NO.People still doesnt get it . Just because Luffy beats him early that doesnt neccessary make Luffy stronger then Crocodle.

Think about in this way Ussop pawns Perona who pawns the other straw hats.

So Ussop is stronger then Luffy?

BTW in your definetion what does stronger means? The ability to beat another exponent, or what.
Cause w/o knowing the weakness of Croc luffy would have nvr defeated croc.
you might as well say that Nami has a higher chance of defeating Croc since her Clima-Tact can produce water

[Yangzter027]

Thought i'd give my 2 cents..

The only way we can find which Shichibukai is stronger if we put them all into a huge arena and force them ta kill each other and then ta last one standing would be considered ta strongest..

Besides jus cuz Croc and Moria got beat doesn't mean that they're weak, it just means that Luffy is strong

[123]

Just because the winner of the arena fight wins doesnt means he is the stongest.
Lets say for example in real life sports. The stronger team will also at times lose to the weaker teams.
In a fight the strongest doesnt neccesary win, wits, luck and other stuff counts

[Yangzter027]

It pretty much does since if ya die then it meant ya either got outsmarted, outgunned or ya ran out of luck

[brennen.exe]

@Zik:

I'd like that movie to be good since I hear its canon with the manga.

I know you aren't stating this as fact, but where do we hear that it is canon?

[Mazus]

@brennen.exe:

I know you aren't stating this as fact, but where do we hear that it is canon?

I think it's because the story for 10th movie is written by Oda himself. It doesn't mean the story will be canon but it does have a chance.

[Zik]

@brennen.exe:

I know you aren't stating this as fact, but where do we hear that it is canon?

I said I heard that it was canon, and where I heard it was here but I'll restate since you seem to either not understand or got your panties in a knot.

I'd like the movie to be good regardless IF it is canon with the manga it WILL be good.

[brennen.exe]

@Zik:

…but I'll restate since you seem to either not understand or got your panties in a knot...

LOL! "I know you aren't stating this as fact" <–- I already acknowledged that you were only going along with hearsay. Sheesh.
@Mazus:

I think it's because the story for 10th movie is written by Oda himself. It doesn't mean the story will be canon but it does have a chance.

I figured as much, but I recall e1n saying that it is not canon. (He might have said "most likely not"). Since there are opposite points of view I just wanted to know where info was on either/or.

[_Bastard_]

@123:

Just because the winner of the arena fight wins doesnt means he is the stongest.
Lets say for example in real life sports. The stronger team will also at times lose to the weaker teams.
In a fight the strongest doesnt neccesary win, wits, luck and other stuff counts

We would need a larger sample size than one bout, so you're right.

Sanji could cook them nutritious meals, and Chopper could treat their wounds. Then, we could send them back out again to beat the shit out of each other.

[alekosss_kenpachi]

ye i agree with u guys…moria is SO SO weak...had fought evenly with a yonkou and luffy had to take 100 shadow power to ko him...if it werent for the shadows he would have los for sure!
Conclusion?Moria is very weak

PS.I forgot Portgas D. Ace is a fu***ing weakling lost to blackbeard...luffy 1 billion times stronger than him.

[ultimec1a]

@alekosss_kenpachi:

ye i agree with u guys…moria is SO SO weak...had fought evenly with a yonkou and luffy had to take 100 shadow power to ko him...if it werent for the shadows he would have los for sure!
Conclusion?Moria is very weak

PS.I forgot Portgas D. Ace is a fu***ing weakling lost to blackbeard...luffy 1 billion times stronger than him.

Are you being sarcastic?:sad:

[Neomaster121]

@ultimec1a:

Are you being sarcastic?:sad:

he has to be cause what he said don't make sense otherwise

[dlo62282]

So you rank the shichibukai on what order they get defeated in? that's just stupid. Outside of BB if Luffy faced any shichi instead of Croc and Moria first he would've beaten them. Then you idiots woulda been calling them the weakest. sigh

Only 2 of them got defeated. So what the hell are you talking about? Luffy would of beat Kuma if he faced him at albasta instead of croc? And u are calling us idiots?

Luffy cant even beat Kuma now and luffy got alot stronger since he fought Croc.

No,NO, NO.People still doesnt get it . Just because Luffy beats him early that doesnt neccessary make Luffy stronger then Crocodle.

Luffy is stronger then Croc.
Ussop is stronger then Perona.

BTW in your definetion what does stronger means? The ability to beat another exponent, or what.
Cause w/o knowing the weakness of Croc luffy would have nvr defeated croc.
you might as well say that Nami has a higher chance of defeating Croc since her Clima-Tact can produce water

Knowledge is power. We have seen 4 cases when a person made a logia stay solid, Blackbeard against Ace, Dragon against Smoker, Raleigh against Kizaru and Luffy using water against Croc. There seems to be way to touch logias without finding there weakness. Croc was nothing special when he was solid.

[Mugiwara_Shojo]

@dlo62282:

Knowledge is power. We have seen 4 cases when a person made a logia stay solid, Blackbeard against Ace, Dragon against Smoker, Raleigh against Kizaru and Luffy using water against Croc. There seems to be way to touch logias without finding there weakness. Croc was nothing special when he was solid.

Where does Enel vs. Luffy fit in? Because luffy didn't need to solidify him to beat him, lightning just didn't work on luffy because of the rubberness.

[dlo62282]

Hmm, yeah forgot about that. But i think luffy did solidfy him because he was able to hit him.

[alekosss_kenpachi]

@ultimec1a:

Are you being sarcastic?:sad:

ofc i am…cause i think many ppl here just misdudge...

PLz guys wake up luffy is strong but he is not MONSTEr yet..he has still way to grow

[ultimec1a]

@alekosss_kenpachi:

ofc i am…cause i think many ppl here just misdudge...

PLz guys wake up luffy is strong but he is not MONSTEr yet..he has still way to grow

Oh thank Whitebeard, because for a second there…

[Urian]

From my point of view Moria lost because even when he was stronger than Luffy and with methods to wipe out the entire crew he didn´t act until Kuma manipulated him saying "World Government believes that you will fail".

People believes that Moria was a bad character, a person like Crocodile or Blackbeard since he is a Shichibukai but the difference is that Croc and BB are murderers and Moria wasn´t. In other words I believe that Moria is a good hearted character that was doing his Shichibukai job. He was going to win 333 Milions of berries, this was a lot of money and he is a pirate.

But when he said to Luffy "I let you pass" and told him how he lost his crew and the reason why he wanted to make an undead crew it was clear for me that something that Moria valued a lot were his Nakamas.

Kuma in another hand is just another history, I see him as a sadist but not one like Lucci but one who tortures mentally the people, in Thriller Bark he tortured Zoro and the others putting him into a stupid fight that the Shichibukai could have won in any moment and torturing his body after all this.

And I am tired to see a lot of people saying "Kuma is a good character because he knows Dragon" when he was enjoying torturing Lufy in mind and spirit in chapter 512. Kuma is pure evil.

[AlmostLegendary]

@Urian:

From my point of view Moria lost because even when he was stronger than Luffy and with methods to wipe out the entire crew he didn´t act until Kuma manipulated him saying "World Government believes that you will fail".

People believes that Moria was a bad character, a person like Crocodile or Blackbeard since he is a Shichibukai but the difference is that Croc and BB are murderers and Moria wasn´t. In other words I believe that Moria is a good hearted character that was doing his Shichibukai job. He was going to win 333 Milions of berries, this was a lot of money and he is a pirate.

But when he said to Luffy "I let you pass" and told him how he lost his crew and the reason why he wanted to make an undead crew it was clear for me that something that Moria valued a lot were his Nakamas.

Kuma in another hand is just another history, I see him as a sadist but not one like Lucci but one who tortures mentally the people, in Thriller Bark he tortured Zoro and the others putting him into a stupid fight that the Shichibukai could have won in any moment and torturing his body after all this.

And I am tired to see a lot of people saying "Kuma is a good character because he knows Dragon" when he was enjoying torturing Lufy in mind and spirit in chapter 512. Kuma is pure evil.

I disagree with you. Moria has more than likely killed his share of people. Brooke saw some one who died because they burned up in the sun with out their shadow. Moria is more like a tragic hero. Even though he tried to kill the SHP you can't help but feel sorry for him because of the way he thinks and the fact that he lost his crew while on the same quest that luffy is on.

Also valuing you nakama don't make you a good person if you consider all the evil that someone like Moria has done and when it gets back to him then he wonders or look at as why him and such you really have to stop and think.

[wolfwood]

Heroine ? xD

Kuma doesnt seem all that evil, nor that good to me. Hes mostly stoic. Figures he lost the ability for emotions when he turned into a bot. But then again Frankys one too and he cries all the time. And Moria like its already been said so many many times, Morias a sad character, Probably a formerly kind man who snapped when his crew died and then surrounded himself with things he never would have to lose.

[AlmostLegendary]

@wolfwood:

Heroine ? xD

Kuma doesnt seem all that evil, nor that good to me. Hes mostly stoic. Figures he lost the ability for emotions when he turned into a bot. But then again Frankys one too and he cries all the time. And Moria like its already been said so many many times, Morias a sad character, Probably a formerly kind man who snapped when his crew died and then surrounded himself with things he never would have to lose.

its too early for me to be up oops. Don't forget these guys are pirates with huge bounties I don't think "nice" or "kind" is a fitting description. I'm pretty sure Moria wasn't worried about the people who's lives he had ruined. Also kuma with the description "Violent" would suggest other wise don't you think???

[wolfwood]

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

Don't forget these guys are pirates with huge bounties I don't think "nice" or "kind" is a fitting description.

So is Shanks and his crew and they seem to be pretty decent fellas. But really i mean kind as in he was kind to his crew and those he liked sort of like Luffy. As opposed to say Croc who fucked with everybody he met and killed them for minor things like exagerating reports.

As for Kuma he doesnt seem all that violent really, As we just found out he just throws people around to get them out of his face. And his personality is definitly stoic. just look at that face when hes about to put Zoro thru hell, He doesnt invest much emotion into it, he just states the facts and gets on with it.

[onemoment]

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

I disagree with you. Moria has more than likely killed his share of people. Brooke saw some one who died because they burned up in the sun with out their shadow. Moria is more like a tragic hero. Even though he tried to kill the SHP you can't help but feel sorry for him because of the way he thinks and the fact that he lost his crew while on the same quest that luffy is on.

Also valuing you nakama don't make you a good person if you consider all the evil that someone like Moria has done and when it gets back to him then he wonders or look at as why him and such you really have to stop and think.

Um…I think you mean "tragic villain."

While it's true that Moria may have lost a crew, and was greatly affected by that loss, it doesn't excuse what he is today. Today he's definitely a killer, a merciless thief, and he seemed to greatly enjoy the suffering of the Strawhats.

By the way, is Crocodile generally agreed to be the weakest of the shichibukai that we've seen so far? I certainly would think that based on what we've seen from them. No disrespect to the character though, but that's just the level Croc appears to be at.

[Urian]

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

I disagree with you. Moria has more than likely killed his share of people. Brooke saw some one who died because they burned up in the sun with out their shadow. Moria is more like a tragic hero. Even though he tried to kill the SHP you can't help but feel sorry for him because of the way he thinks and the fact that he lost his crew while on the same quest that luffy is on.

Also valuing you nakama don't make you a good person if you consider all the evil that someone like Moria has done and when it gets back to him then he wonders or look at as why him and such you really have to stop and think.

We are talking about One Piece world here, a work of fiction were the worst sin is traition and the most evil characters are the ones who kill their Nakamas which is the worst act of all.

[Herr Krokodil]

@onemoment:

Um…I think you mean "tragic villain."

While it's true that Moria may have lost a crew, and was greatly affected by that loss, it doesn't excuse what he is today. Today he's definitely a killer, a merciless thief, and he seemed to greatly enjoy the suffering of the Strawhats.

By the way, is Crocodile generally agreed to be the weakest of the shichibukai that we've seen so far? I certainly would think that based on what we've seen from them. No disrespect to the character though, but that's just the level Croc appears to be at.

Most reason most people think he's the weakest is becasue of the fact he was the first to be beaten , if you replace croocdile with one of the other shichibukai and they were beaten first they would proably be considered the weakest.

[Captain Shmeckie]

@onemoment:

By the way, is Crocodile generally agreed to be the weakest of the shichibukai that we've seen so far? I certainly would think that based on what we've seen from them. No disrespect to the character though, but that's just the level Croc appears to be at.

D–! ...Whuh d--...!

Ah, forget it...

@Herr:

Most reason most people think he's the weakest is becasue of the fact he was the first to be beaten , if you replace croocdile with one of the other shichibukai and they were beaten first they would proably be considered the weakest.

Pretty much. And by pretty much, I mean that's the exact reason.

[wolfwood]

Yeah cause it couldnt just be that in light of all that weve seen Croc doesnt seem quite as awesomly powerful as he did back in Alabasta. And feels more like a big fish in a small pond.

[onemoment]

@Herr:

Most reason most people think he's the weakest is becasue of the fact he was the first to be beaten , if you replace croocdile with one of the other shichibukai and they were beaten first they would proably be considered the weakest.

That doesn't make sense. For it to make sense, you'd have to mix many story elements up. First off I'd imagine that this new "first shichibukai" would get a new arc for themselves, since Kuma or Moria in Alabasta makes no sense.

Then, I assume Luffy would learn a new power up to deal with this shichibukai's abilities, like how he learned gear 2 and gear 3 to face Lucci. In fact, does Enies Lobby come before or after Croc's new placement?

Then, after Croc shows up, what then? Does his bounty get upgraded to match the story, since while most people say bounties are useless, they were an important suggestion of strength back then. 80 million was the biggest bounty of the time, and it was somewhat important when Kuma and Donflamgino's new bounty's appeared. It would seem silly for Crocodile to appear as a low bounty shichibukai. Do these guys trade bounties?

I'm having a tough time believing gear 2 wouldn't make a big difference Croc vs. Luffy. At the end of their fight Croc literally couldn't touch Luffy, he had to kill himself to just barely scratch him with the poison hook. Luffy's was faster then Croc even before he learned gears and soru, so hows he supposed to keep up with anyone faster then pre-gears Luffy? I know Croc can kill you with one hit, but he's still really really slow. Slower then Kuma, Lucci, and probably Mihawk. With this level of speed how can he hit these guys? That only leave Moria and maybe Donflamingo that he could hit, but then Moria has his shadow defense.

The only real advantage that Croc has over the shichibukai we've seen is his logia's defense, but can it really be trusted to protect him? Moria supposedly know about Kuma's ability, so what if he knows about Croc as well? Rayleigh cut Kizaru's cheek. True, Rayleigh is one of a kind, but there are also many world level opponents in the world. The Yonkou, The Admirals, and all the older pirates have a chance of knowing about whatever Rayleigh did. That includes Mihawk. Even without knowing whatever the hell Kizaru did, all they need is water.

Even if we assume that no other shichibukai can injure Croc, all I see are these fights resulting in a lame series of stalemates where no one can injure each other. That doesn't even really make Croc as strong as the other shichibukai anyway.

I could go on, but as I see it Crocodile was designed to be the "first shichibukai to be defeated." The entire story after his defeated was written around his replacement. His attacks frankly aren't that bad or unique compared to later enemies, with the exception of his water draining technique. Sparda is an air blade that's easily evaded. He can create sandstorms, but can't control the powerful ones. Ground Death was avoided by Luffy moving to a higher level, and even then what happens if Croc gets hit with a ranged attack while using this? And the rest is negated by a lack of speed.

Then again, in fairness, for all we know Jimbei and the new shichibukai are weaker then him, which would only put the shichibukai we've seen so far above him.

[DesertSpada]

@Urian:

From my point of view Moria lost because even when he was stronger than Luffy and with methods to wipe out the entire crew he didn´t act until Kuma manipulated him saying "World Government believes that you will fail".

People believes that Moria was a bad character, a person like Crocodile or Blackbeard since he is a Shichibukai but the difference is that Croc and BB are murderers and Moria wasn´t. In other words I believe that Moria is a good hearted character that was doing his Shichibukai job. He was going to win 333 Milions of berries, this was a lot of money and he is a pirate.

But when he said to Luffy "I let you pass" and told him how he lost his crew and the reason why he wanted to make an undead crew it was clear for me that something that Moria valued a lot were his Nakamas.

Kuma in another hand is just another history, I see him as a sadist but not one like Lucci but one who tortures mentally the people, in Thriller Bark he tortured Zoro and the others putting him into a stupid fight that the Shichibukai could have won in any moment and torturing his body after all this.

And I am tired to see a lot of people saying "Kuma is a good character because he knows Dragon" when he was enjoying torturing Lufy in mind and spirit in chapter 512. Kuma is pure evil.

I see the total opposite. Moria never once seemed like a nice, good hearted person to me. He took 1, 000 shadows from various people of which many of them were killed or had to live a life away from the sun. He took corpses of people(more than most likey illegally), cut them up with the help of a deranged doctor, and forced them to move around and do his bidding with the use of his powers.

The reason Moria went after the SH was because he wanted to strengthen his own power by taking their shadows. He didn't act because Kuma told him what the Gov. told Kuma to do. Moria's plan was already enacted by that time and Kuma was just doing his job to deliver a message. Also, when was the last time you saw a good hearted person laugh and jeer on an enormous man stomping human beings into goo?

Also, Kuma, in reality, has done nothing but help the SH from the day he met them. He could have EASILY killed the SH crew and the forest pirates…..but he fought Zoro on a one-on-one battle and even held up to his promise of not taking Luffy(and Zoro couldn't stop him even if he wanted to) and just inflicted Luffy's suffereing onto Zoro instead of beating the guy to a pulpy mess. Also, if he had not shown up at Shabondy, Ussop, Zoro and Brooke would have been killed by PX-1. Not to mention the rest of the crew would have been slaughtered by PX-1 and Sentoumaru with Kizaru holding off the Pirate King's First Mate.

@onemoment:

~snip~

I disagree with some points. Crocodile's weakness is water. It makes him tangible. However, he has proven that he is well guarded against it. Sure, he's not super fast, but he is still pretty quick. He dodged numerous attacks from Luffy that were point-blank and kept going. Also, all of his attacks are one hit kills. Spada, is certainly not an airblade and would cut you in two if it hit.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/200/12/

His ability to dehydrate things is one of the most dangerous abilities shown, able to render to immeadiately handicapped. Ground Secco and Ground Death have a great range and can really mess you up. The fact that his Sables can grow to such proportions just add to his favor because he's not affected by them.

Now, onto the final battle with Luffy, he could have killed him…..once again. Luffy was down for a considerable amount of time from the poison and Crocodile could have ended it there. Unfortunately, this was also one of his weaknesses. In the final battle, he was mentally messed up and not his normal calculating self. There were numerous openings in which Crocodile could have sent out a Spada, disappeared and hooked Luffy, or used Sables to disorient Luffy, etc. and so forth. However, the whole time, he was thinking,(and you could see it on his face) "How could this rookie have so much power?" and "What drives him so?!"

So anyway, that's how I analyzed it.

[Captain Shmeckie]

DS has it right, for the most part. We saw that Crocodile dwarfed Luffy more than one could measure. That's pretty much why the only way Luffy could win was not only to be covered in blood, but for Croc to make a conscious desicion not to use his sand powers until he had completely lost his cool, and didn't use them effectively. Even then, as I've said before, Luffy was about to die after it ended. Crocodile was just knocked out.

To this day, Croc's the only character to have a movelist made up of so many deadly attacks. You CANNOT survive the majority of his attacks. His main projectile attack erases everything in its path, for god's sake! It's like a mobile Kuma touch, only you don't change location, you die.

[onemoment]

@Captain:

DS has it right, for the most part. We saw that Crocodile dwarfed Luffy more than one could measure. That's pretty much why the only way Luffy could win was not only to be covered in blood, but for Croc to make a conscious desicion not to use his sand powers until he had completely lost his cool, and didn't use them effectively. Even then, as I've said before, Luffy was about to die after it ended. Crocodile was just knocked out.

To this day, Croc's the only character to have a movelist made up of so many deadly attacks. You CANNOT survive the majority of his attacks. His main projectile attack erases everything in its path, for god's sake! It's like a mobile Kuma touch, only you don't change location, you die.

At this point I'm more interested in comparing Croc with the shichibukai at this point, I left out a lot of my feelings about Croc vs. Luffy. But I'll add a few more things. However, what makes you think Croc wasn't using his sand powers effectively? Also, why suggest that Croc lost his head during the battle? You're suggesting his will is that weak? That's kind of lame.

He's not an idiot, he knows how to you his moves. We all saw how Luffy countered his moves until that point.

Spada was always barely dodged. There was no reason to think it wouldn work again. Plus, DS's suggestion of using a spada as a distraction is overpowered and unrealistic. Croc would need to run the distance of a Spada and get to Luffy in one second, the time of the attack.

Ground Death is overrated. Though it can dry anyone on the ground, notice that in the end all it did was get Luffy's sandals. All Luffy needs to do is get out of range or punch Croc's attack, or perhaps punch he while he's using it. Since Croc needs he hand on the ground, its not like he could move.

Sables I forgot about at first, but I don't remember it actually doing damage to Luffy. Now Ground Secco, that's the sand pit right? I wonder why he never used that again, maybe it require a floor made of sand?

And that just leaves Pesado, which as we saw Luffy broke through. If you're thinking "use it at close range," then why couldn't Luffy just dodge it? It's a huge attack. That just leaves the touch of death, and for some reason Croc's too slow to use it on enemies faster then Luffy.

I don't want to hear "Croc wasn't fighting at his best." In any other fight, that just amounts to an excuse. There's no reason to assume Croc gave it his all, he was fighting for his goal after all! What more of a reason does that guy have to fight? If anything, I'd expect worse out of him in a rematch with Luffy. Yes, most of Croc's attack are one-hit kills, but the problem is none of them ever hit!

Now, back to the real topic, I only see these attack doing worse again other shichibukai, save for the unknown ones. It's not that "Croc defeated first so he looks weak," but moreso that the other shichibukai have shown more impressive abilities. For one thing, barring the logia defense, they're all faster and stronger then Crocodile. While they don't have one hit killers, their attack are still incredibly strong. True, Gomu gomu no storm is impressive, but couldn't it by matched by a few dozen paw cannons, or a shadow boosted assault, or one swing of Mihawk's sword?

Luffy vs. Croc is full of controversy, but amongst the shichibukai Croc seems like the clear weakest, perhaps only standing a chance against Moria. Not to say Croc is "weak," but he is weak compared to these world level enemies. I always thought that was essential to his character. He's just below the level of world class fighter's like Kizauru or the yonkou. He's a man who never had faith in himself or anyone else, as suggested by his lines, his constant back-up plans, and his search of pluton. Without that Ao Kiji would have stopped him later.

[Tricktype]

I think the strenght of the shichibukai varies, for sure. But, some of their strenghts can be inhanced depending on location.

For example
Imagine crocodile vs Moria in the middle of the hot dry Alabastian weather. Crocodile would honestly destroy moria to no point beyond.

Now, imagine the battle in the middle of TB, where moria has access to Oz and the shadows needed for shadow asgard etc. Moria has this 1 won.

I honestly think that Crocodile could be 1 of the most powerful shichibukai only in a desert. You saw how luffy stood no chance against Croc in the desert round 1. But in round 2#3, they fought on land (not sand).

Now for some shichibukai like Mihawk, Blackbeard, and Kuma, location plays no part in their combat skillz.

But all in all, they're skill levels are on the same level in my eyes. Well, some of them