Comic relief, like that one time in Alabasta with Luffy hitting Smoker and Ace.
To my understanding Logias can be turn on or off at will, but that works too
General 'Haki' Discussion
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You're trying to get out of this mess and real fast boy, so Imma let you out lol
I'm not, but okay.
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I asked for a valid example to compare, as you said pipe=/=mr 1. Mr.1 is no ordinary steel.
That may have been what you wanted but thats not what you said. lol
However, Seeing as how our discussion is evidently over I'll just end this here.
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That reminds me, how does everyone think about the concept of haki in general?
Are the 3 types of haki interrelated? Are they different aspects of one single concept or multiple phenomenons that people just lumped in
together as haki because they didn't truly understand it? -
So does Nami have haki? I know that it normally happens purely out of comic relief. But she's capable of beating the ever loving crap out Luffy and leaving welts and bruises on him.
She made Usopp's kid pirates foam from their mouths as comic relief too :ninja:
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That was COO, Rayleigh said he just heard, the voice of ALL Creation.
Exactly. I don't see how people can forget that tbh. It was a pretty important reveal.
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Exactly. I don't see how people can forget that tbh. It was a pretty important reveal.
When was it revealed? I'm still haven't mustered the will power to watch anything past the sabo flashback
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lelouch vs Schneizel, Code Geass
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When was it revealed? I'm still haven't mustered the will power to watch anything past the sabo flashback
? You are not reading manga ?
What do you mean by not watching anything past LUFFYS flashback ?
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When was it revealed? I'm still haven't mustered the will power to watch anything past the sabo flashback
It was in Sabaody Arc.
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When was it revealed? I'm still haven't mustered the will power to watch anything past the sabo flashback
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Chapter 506-507
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http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/jp/image/1344/21/1344216627709.jpg
! http://static2.mangainn.com/mangas/676/24934/006_10_26_2011_06_28_28.jpg
http://static2.mangainn.com/mangas/676/24934/007_10_26_2011_06_28_28.jpgChapter 506-507
Um, I knew about the "Power to hear the voice of all things" malarkey. I just didn't know what it was called. Or if it even had a specific name. Or if it was Haki.
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_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
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[insert funny meme here]
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^ That's over thinking things dude
So you don't see the steam from Luffy's arm being trapped by the Armament Haki and being released a couple of second later thus creating the "FIRE" effect on "REDHAWK" while Doflamingo just becomes Indiana Jones.
I could have pick on your comment about Brook and ice attacks, but I let it slide.
Why do people say that anyway, I don't pick on anyone in particular, you just share your thoughts way too much, so you give us more info from where to pick.
PS: If I stop in the middle of an argument is because the argument is heading the wrong way and I don't see any point in discussing it any feather.
It's a pun.
Overheat = Obahito = hito = ito = Japanese for "String" (Ito Ito no Mi).
Parasaito, Tamaito, Goshikito…
Nobody said that it's heated. It's just a name that sounds cool.
Or are you going to say that Viola's "Hierro Lágrima" involves literal tears made of iron?
Well look at 2:54
and comment
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Well look at 2:54
and comment
Using anime to prove a point?
You're asking to be laughed at.
They didn't even make it look like a rope, like in the manga.
It looks like a whip-shaped flame in the anime. Something that Ace could do with his ability. WTF?
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Using anime to prove a point?
You're asking to be laughed at.
They didn't even make it look like a rope, like in the manga.
It looks like a whip-shaped flame in the anime. Something that Ace could do with his ability. WTF?
Well here it looked like burning
but in scene where Law is blocking it with sword they surely OVERdidit.
Point is that we will see more of overheat soon enough and not only me seen it as burning in manga as it seems as anime team also decided to animate it burning.
Also what is reason for laughing at me when I just point to anime team decision being similar to what people said about overheat looking on some manga pages
many months ago?
Is bringing up things from anime that are similar to how some readers seen scenes a reason to laugh at somebody?For me its clear that this attack is strenghtened somehow with haki and heat comming out of friction thanks to speed of it. Nothing mindblowingly weird to say imo.
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http://i32.mangapanda.com/one-piece/724/one-piece-4504643.jpg
Well here it looked like burning
but in scene where Law is blocking it with sword they surely OVERdidit.
Point is that we will see more of overheat soon enough and not only me seen it as burning in manga as it seems as anime team also decided to animate it burning.
Also what is reason for laughing at me when I just point to anime team decision being similar to what people said about overheat looking on some manga pages
many months ago?
Is bringing up things from anime that are similar to how some readers seen scenes a reason to laugh at somebody?You know, when Oda draws something burning, he makes it very obvious. He just draws flames around the object. All I see there is an object moving at fast speeds. You see that effect every time a character or object moves fast.
Hell, no one ever mentions that it's burning. I mean, it's weird how Nami says "a whip?!" without pointing out that it's on fire.
And the reason we laugh at the anime is because they do take plenty of questionable liberties at times. Remember when they gave Lucci a fire move?
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You know, when Oda draws something burning, he makes it very obvious. He just draws flames around the object. All I see there is an object moving at fast speeds. You see that effect every time a character or object moves fast.
Hell, no one ever mentions that it's burning. I mean, it's weird how Nami says "a whip?!" without pointing out that it's on fire.
Once again look at middle panel of page I just posted.
Why not to draw string like a line then, why add effect around it and make line itself very blurry inside of something?
There is visible space around string filled with something as it covers string itself.Show other instances of effect you see every time something moves fast that looks like this here then.
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Once again look at middle panel of page I just posted.
Why not to draw string like a line then, why add effect around it and make line itself very blurry inside of something?
There is visible space around string filled with something as it covers string itself.Show other instances of effect you see every time something moves fast that looks like this here then.
Sadi-chan's whip.
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Sadi-chan's whip.
It does not have that light-effect around itself as Doflamingos whip does in middle panel.
I assure you I can tell difference between simple effect of fast moving objects. -
It does not have that light-effect around itself as Doflamingos whip does in middle panel.
I assure you I can tell difference between simple effect of fast moving objects.Light-effect? Which light-effect?
You mean the white outline around the whip? That's something you can see everywhere in the manga. It's caused by Oda's eraser.
Also, trust me when I say that if it was supposed to be on fire, there would be flames around it. Oda can draw fiery weapons after all.
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Light-effect? Which light-effect?
You mean the white outline around the whip? That's something you can see everywhere in the manga. It's caused by Oda's eraser.
Also, trust me when I say that if it was supposed to be on fire, there would be flames around it. Oda can draw fiery weapons after all.
Heat effect would look like that imo
Its more about heated string than string on fire.
If its seen so often then why you given only one example that still looks different? -
Heat effect would look like that imo
Its more about heated string than string on fire.
If its seen so often then why you given only one example that still looks different?Your opinion is not an argument.
Just reread the manga and you'll eventually notice the same white outline effect. I already showed proof of movement.
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Don't mind this guys. Just something I noticed.
Rayleigh explaining what Haki is.
It exists within every single human being. "Presence"… "Spirit"... "Aura". It is no different from these basic concepts with which anyone should be familiar with. However, the vast majority of people go their whole lives without ever noticing they possess it... or else try as they might, never succeed in making use of it. To feel no doubt... that is true strength!!!
[hide]
[/hide]If we took what Rayleigh said and the translation very literally - Haki is ALL "Presence", "Spirit" and "Aura". His explanation mentions that Observation Haki is "Presence" felt to an elevated degree. Sovereign/Conqueror Haki is the user's very "Spirit" manifest, but of course not everyone can do it. From there, I presume we can take that as Armanent Haki being the "Aura" that is something like wearing an invisible suit or armor.. and naturally stronger armor also results in more powerful attacks.
In that 4th page, that was explaining Armanent Haki, when Luffy asked Rayleigh, if with it, he can attack Smoker or even Aokiji? - Rayleigh was silent. It might just be me but knowing what I know about Haki, I think he answered in silence to mean "That depends on you".
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This is the best explanation I know of Haki.The credits go to C.A. from Animesuki. This is the third or fourth time I'm quoting/crediting him/her but I'm just amazed how s/he tried to explain Haki and how much it matches with the way Oda portrays it, especially considering s/he wrote this back when the manga was only in Amazon Lily arc and so on. (Full thread here I only copied up to half of page 12)
I just copied what was posted but organized it a bit and made it easier to read. I apologize in advanced for the length as well as any repeated statements and explanations.
Introduction:
[hide]To the western world Haki is something that's not properly understood, even in this thread. Simply because there's no single word that describes Haki well enough. But to us East Asians, Japanese and Chinese, the words Haki is an instantly understood term. It is a term that is Asian in origin and loosely phrased and understood in the Western world.
What Haki really is and means:
The words Ha and Ki, meaning 'dominate' and 'air'. Together you can make out something like 'air of dominance/atmosphere of fear' or better phrased, 'Aura of dominance/supremacy' or 'Aura of fear/terror'.
You can't really train yourself to just have Haki, it does not happen by itself or just suddenly. When you train yourself to become stronger or over time have attained some form of aggression, Haki will come along. It is something that builds up over experience and time and can be activated at will. But it can also be something that happens involutarily, examples of Haki in various forms:
A large wrestler say, 'The Rock'. If you, as a normal person stands in the ring and he is about to charge towards you, or just staring hard at you, you will be pretty much in fear. But once he puts on some clothes and goes off stage and becomes friendly, even the kids can approach him easily for an autograph.
Your pet dog is a cute and lovable family member, but if anyone trys to snatch its food bowl it will bark ferociously baring its teeth. Even you yourself would be quite fearful.
Those are examples of actively expressing Haki physically through appearance and facial expression.
Examples of involutary Haki:
An infamous gangster that has been jailed for years but still remembered by people for his doings. He was known to have beaten several people to a bloody pulp before getting into jail, but since then he has already turned over a new leaf. He walks on the street trying to be friendly but people just turns silent wherever he goes, simply because they know he was a violent criminal.
No matter how tame a lion or a bear is, it is a wild animal and for that we are wary even if they are circus animals dressed in frilly costumes. You would have fear to approach them to take pictures even if they are chained and in cages.
–------------In One Piece Haki is basically much the same, the amplification of fear. Though we've seen its effects with much more extreme results. Like Shanks making people fear him so much that they foam from their own fear. And Rayleigh demonstrating how you can spread fear to others but at the same time not to people who you are not hostile towards.
So Haki cutting the sky into two? No, its not their Haki, its just the pure power, the power of them clashing.
Haki flinching Logias? Plausible, if someone could perform an action or expression that can instill enough fear, Logias could literally solidfy in their tracks.
Oda using Haki as it fundamentally works, makes the story more down to earth. Its a competition based on will and just will alone, not amazing energy sources that seem to come out of nowhere. Its basically who has the stronger will wins and it shows how strong mentally and how determined the characters are. Its a powerup 'system' that develops with character and not just an energy source that can be acquired out of nowhere.
And 'imbue' is a nice word to use for Haki based attacks. When you put enough will into an attack, be sure of it and give it your all, you will hit that opponent well and hard, because you wanted to do that and made sure you did it. If you have doubts of your own abilities, you will not be putting your absolute best, giving your opponents that chance to escape.
When Kizaru fought with Rayleigh, its the best example so far of will vs will. Rayleigh being saw upon by Kizaru as weaker than his prime, is experiencing Kizaru's will against him. But Rayleigh stated, he will not let Kizaru get the Strawhats no matter what, again he's displaying his opposing will. The scene is also brilliantly set up by Oda as a 'Sabre-lock', the locking of swords. In such a situation, both parties have to resist against each other, the one who softens and lets go will get sliced. One who does not have the will and determination to hang on will lose, contest of wills.
When Shanks stared at the Seaking back in volume 1, he intimidated the Seaking with his Haki.
Intimidation with Haki is the most fundamental Haki effect in all manga, its literally shown in every manga with Haki.
How do you see Haki? Ki, how do you see the spirit, the air? No, you don't see it, you feel it.
Why do the pirates fear the Shichibukai, the Admirals? Why do the Marines fear powerful pirates? Why did the crew freak out when Kizaru paid them a visit? Why were they so terrified when Kuma sent them off one by one?
To have that overwhelming power and will, is to have Haki. Enemies will be intimidated by your powerful spirit. Once intimidated, their Haki drops, the group's Haki drops. The group becomes weaker and fall apart when their Haki is overwhelmed by the enemy.
Can Haki be so strong that even light would freeze in its tracks? Or rather, the one who wielded light, to freeze in his tracks? Can you have such powerful intention in hitting someone that your punch will hurt someone that can't be hurt? Can you will your arrows into splitting rocks apart? Do you have the will to think that you can do these?
Though short, these are the Haki that everyone sees, including those you mentioned. I'm not addressing these because I'm addressing everything else, the entire bulk of Haki that people do not have a clear idea of. If you skip this part and read the rest of my post, that's how big the entire bulk of what Haki is that's not applied physically.
Did WB not show his Haki? No, he has always been showing it, like I said, that reputation of a person and how people would fear his name, is Haki at work. He has ruled over people hearts, his enemies feared him, his allies feel protected by him. Not just his crew, but even the islands that he protects with his name, the Fishman Island which Jinbei holds his gratitude to White Beard for helping.
Why did Robin fear Aokiji so much? Why did the rest of the crew fear this seemingly friendly man immediately after Robin explains who he is?
Why did Kizaru strike fear into the pirates when he crash into the island?
Did the Supernovae not have Haki? Of course they had Haki, though they may all have different levels of Haki, Kid and Law's crew could hold their own against Rayleigh's Haki.
What makes you think WB doesn't have Haki? Because he didn't make people faint, because he didn't use a Haki attack against Shanks? Is there something special in a Haki imbued attack? No, there's nothing special, it doesn't look extra flashy, it doesn't emit light, it doesn't look like its more powerful, absolutely nothing special at all. Its just the same attack, but it goes through.
In all types of forces, there's a difference, when there's a difference, the force travels from a higher potential difference to a lower potential difference. Water flows from higher ground to lower regions. Electricity, voltage is that potential difference, it determines the flow of electric current. Heat, a region of higher temperature will transfer to a region of lower temperature.
Now apply that to Haki. If your Haki is stronger than your opponent(s), your attack will flow through him, how strong is the flow, this current, depends on the potential difference. If the difference in Haki between you and your opponent, he could probably be knocked out by your sheer will. If the difference is small, you may lend him a good hit, but not enough to take him out. If the difference is equal? Nothing happens.
So did Whitebeard not use his Haki against Shanks? He didn't falter at all in Shank's presence, most of his crew as well, some did, but most still stood up even when his Haki is strong enough that even the ship gave way by that powerful Haki. When Whitebeard and Shanks clashed, it is also the clash of their Haki, but their Haki is as strong as each others and neither gave way, 'nothing' happened. Well they say that if you smack two things hard enough, something's got to give way, so, the sky gave way instead.
Haki attacks are not flashy, they don't look anything special at all. They are just powerful, they feel powerful. Because Haki is not seen, but felt. And we have been feeling Haki all the while in One Piece.
People only seem to look at Haki for its physical effects, but that is really just the visible tip of the iceberg. The rest of Haki is much more, all underneath, unseen. What I want people to know is this part that's unseen. Haki as the spirit, the will that's emanating from a person. Haki that attracts allies, repels enemies.
Do continue to question me, because I think you're going to understand what Haki is. Do note I'm not speculating, I'm stating the meaning of Haki. Haki is a word that's in the dictionary and it has a meaning. It is a common word that can be used in everyday speech, because its just a normal thing.
I agree that the term has been made over complicated, simply because the word is actually a simple word in Chinese and Japanese. But because it doesn't exist in English, it has been extremely hard to get across to Western audience.
If I state it in a very simple form, people would not be able to understand why and how I get to such a definition. Its like stating physics laws, a simple law actually has alot of calculations and theories behind it that eventually derives into a single sentence.
The simplest form I can describe Haki is: A will that allows one to overcome others.
Because what I said are indeed what has been presented of Haki over the years, it has been around in manga for such a long time, its a regular and recognised occurrence. I've already pointed out examples of manga where Haki is explained outright and were important factors. The only thing about One Piece is that it is it being read by alot of Western readers who are new to manga and new to the term. Older manga tend to use Haki alot more than recent manga, its simply because it was overused and mangaka nowadays had to come up with more 'unique' power up systems.
Haki does not only work with martial artists, it works with anyone in a competitive enviroment. The competitive edge, the desire to win, dominating over others is Haki. In fact here in Asia, the word '覇 (Ha)' is used everywhere in the media. Box office tops, radio rankings, sports champs, coporate giants etc., the number one spot is the '覇王 (Haou)'. Their dominance over the rankings gives them a '覇気 (Haki)' that all competitors look up to. To be ambitious means you have a great desire and it usually means there's lots of competition and obstacles you have to defeat.
Haki isn't the only Japanese element in One Piece. You have to wonder why Pirates wield katanas and there's even a whole ranking system of katana rarity and power. And why characters, named or nameless, speak in all sorts of Japanese dialects and slangs. A whole bunch of attack names have furigana of foreign words over the real kanji name. Oda also uses lots of Japanese cultural references all over the story. The story is inherently more Japanese than anything else. People have missed out alot on the story's essence through translation for both manga and anime. 'Haki' is just like 'Nakama', words that translators feel that it should be kept in Japanese so that it doesn't lose too much meaning.
Rayleigh taking off the collar is not Haki at all, its just an extremely fast and powerful movement that even deflects the explosion off.
And like I mentioned in my Ki explanation posts, Ki is referred differently in different situations. Your Ki is your mood and spirit, only when you want to defeat someone it is called '覇気' (haki). Having a killing intention, '殺気' (sakki), having an evil intention, '悪気' (warugi). Feeling serious, '本気' (honki), feeling healthy/energetic, '元気' (genki), innocence, '無邪気' (mujaki). And many more.
What kind of intention or mood did Rayleigh have when he was pulling off the collar? I don't know. Maybe '本気' (honki)? Or '気配り' (kikubari), care/ attention/ consideration. Unless you're saying Rayleigh wants to defeat the collar, yea maybe he has a haki at that moment.
If one is not in the mindset and determination to defeat someone, it means that he does not have Haki at that point.
When Kuma sent the Straw Hats flying off, Luffy clearly was in a state of desperation, he has no Haki, or any positive Ki in his mind. His will and spirit was shattered and he was at a loss.
In this case, you can also say that Luffy and his crew was crushed by Kuma's overwhelming Haki, actually was a double crush, earlier on by Kizaru. The crew's fighting spirit was battered by Kizaru's invincibility, then Kuma appeared to do even more damage to their fighting spirit. As they become more desperate they lose more hope and intention of defeating their opponents, their Haki is gone. This is what Haki means by mood and spirit, the crew was completely defeated by the 2 powerful enemies who had the great intentions in defeating them. That intention to overcome and defeat is the exact meaning of Haki.
To have the Haki to defeat someone, you need the will and determination, the drive to do it. This is in times when Luffy feels that he really wants to defeat his enemies and he becomes really serious. Luffy needs to be able to get himself into a serious mindset in order to control his Haki. His aloofness is what makes his Haki erratic.
I'll do a compilation update on the various Haki posts I've been randomly typing all over the sub forum.
Ha: The word 'ha' means domination. To have the ambition to rule supreme over others, to be better than others and rule over them.
Ki: The word 'ki' is the spirit, the lifeforce, or just the force that's found in everything in the universe. It is also the person's well being, his mood, emotions, everything that's part of his spirit. It is also the presence, the atmosphere of something or someone that is emitted or in the air. Or you can call it the 'aura' of things.
Because Ki is everything, it can be in many forms. When you ask whether someone is 'genki', you're asking whether he is feeling fine, whether he is in good spirits. 'Tenki' is the weather, the atmospheric condition, the condition of the air. 'Warugi' (gi is another pronounciation of ki), is an evil spirit, an evil presence, you can feel the evil from a place if it looks eerie, sometimes a person can also feel evil. There are many types of ki, all coming from the meaning of the spirit, atmosphere or mood of things.
Then there's also Sakki, the killing intention of a person or animal. When a person is expressing agression, and is holding a knife, you can feel his killing intention. There's an atmosphere of danger towards you, you feel threatened and have this fear of death.
Then we have our main topic, Haki. Yes, you should be able to understand its a 'spirit of dominance', 'ambitious spirit', 'a will to dominate', something like that.
What can Haki do, or what does it do? A spirit, a lifeforce, a will to rule over others, what does that mean? How do you rule over others?
There are 2 ways, they either fear you and succumb under your powers or they become attracted to you and becomes your allies. This are 2 fundamental ways to rule over others.
We have seen in One Piece that Haki can intimidate people. The Seaking feared Shanks so much that it ran off. Think of the instances where people feared so much that they couldn't even move. And then there were times where people have so much fear that they foam in the mouths and pass out. Yes they all had fear, they were enemies of those who a powerful Haki, those who had a powerful spirit.
Can Haki be so strong that even light would freeze in its tracks? Or rather, the one who wielded light, to freeze in his tracks? Can you have such powerful intention in hitting someone that your punch will hurt someone that can't be hurt? Can you will your arrows into splitting rocks apart? Do you have the will to think that you can do these?
If you know someone on your side who's extremely confident, powerful and charismatic, would you be attracted to him? Would you choose someone like that to become your leader?
Because a person with strong Haki would mean that he has a strong spirit, a strong will to rule over everything, it makes his allies feel that they can depend on you. With strong allies, you can have a strong fighting spirit. People with strong Haki will become powerful leaders and as a powerful leader, you'll have similarly powerful Nakama. Haki can become stronger when people bind together, their spirits, their 'ki' merge and support each other, becoming an even stronger force.
This means Ki is a variable force, it changes with your mood, your spirits. If you're down, you won't be able to bring out your Haki, if you're spirits are high, you'll have a powerful Haki. But Haki is limited by your ambition, your dreams, the stronger your will to accomplish those dreams, the stronger your Haki.
If you're someone who only wants to open a small shop down the street, you don't need mcuh Haki. But if some day, you feel like becoming the best shop, you're ambition starts to build. And then you feel like making a franchise, you want to become a CEO, you want to rule the industry. Your Haki builds up. And to build it up, you need to have powerful sponsers, investors, allies. To attract such people, you must have that charisma, the confidence, you must be able too convince people to join you. You must have the Haki.
You can build Haki if you really have that will, ambition and dream. But some people are just born with it, some people are natural leaders. Be it their character and personality, whether they're just charming, overwhelmingly confident or extremely nice, incredibly powerful and determined, these people have strong Haki from the start.
People like Luffy, he is extremely confident, he has incredible will and determination, he makes people around him feel that they can do anything, they have no fear with him around. His Haki is so strong that it is equivalent to a king, a ruler that rules over ally and enemy, he was born with such a personality and Haki.[/hide]
Relations and Differences:
[hide]I believe One Piece is no longer targeting younger audience as it had been 10 years ago. And this ties to why Haki is only revealed now.
Firstly Haki is actually a word that can be used and is used in real and daily life. This is the one main factor that separates it from other power ups such as Reiatsu, Chakra and Spiral Energy. Its the human spirit and lifeforce itself.
And for why One Piece is no longer just a shonen that targets, shonen. And how Haki being slowly revealed is related to that.
I believe One Piece is a story that grows with its original fans and for 10 years, its safe to say most every fan is a mature teenager or adult. And its why Haki is only slowly introduced, is because Oda wants the readers to mature with the story and understand Haki in a mature way.
And Haki doesn't matter only to weak willed 'goons and grunts'. In fact it is that tiny difference that when 2 people of strong Haki clash, that will decide the results. There are times in competition, when it comes to the final round, it will be that slight difference that will decide the winner.
When 2 people are aiming for the same thing and they want it so badly, they will do anything for it. Only the one who's more relentless, determined and willing, will achieve the goal.
–-------------Qi Gong is the practice of 'qi' or 'ki' in Japanese, as a form of exercise, or health regulating. If you refer back to my original post on this thread, you can see my explanation of 'ki'. It is the spirit, life force, basically the health of a person. When you practice Qi Gong, you're regulating your 'qi'/'ki', it exercises your body, mind and spirit. Or you can say an exercise for your aura.
Haki is not Qi Gong, but a form of qi / ki. Qi Gong is a system of exercises. Haki is this aura that a person gives out, the way he affects the atmosphere of things, with his will or charisma or fear.
And it seems you always miss out my points, or you're just skipping them without reading. I've already explained the above in my original post, even my posts that I posted last year. And then you're bring up Whitebeard's Haki not causing people to faint. Did you skip my entire 'potential difference' paragraph?
Fainting is when the difference is so great, the weaker side just gives in. Is Shanks going to faint from Whitebeard?
Were any of Aokiji or Kizaru's opponents so weak that they'd faint without even a need to fight? They were affected by their Haki, they were all afraid, all intimidated by their presence, their Haki.
And Haki in manga compared to real life is just like how fighting is in manga compared to real life. They are just brought to extreme magnitudes. Do people fight in real life, yes, but just not as exaggerated. Do people have Haki in real life, yes, but just not as exaggerated.
Can a person have an ambition, a dream, in real life? Of course they can. But can anyone be as determined as a manga character? No, but that's where exaggeration and supension of belief takes over.
"This guy's punches is so fast that he punches faster than the speed of sound."
"This guy's Haki is so strong that people faint from their fear."Haki is not illogical, it has always been part of real life, just that its exaggerated in fiction.
Oda used Haki in One Piece because he didn't want to create a special Shounen power unit of measurement or power up or some special energy system. He is using a down to earth, realistic way to show a person's will and determination and how it carries through.
Well here's how I view the strength of Haki:
People can be strong or weak willed. There are people who are stubborn, people who are strong in their opinions, people who are very determined in their ways. There's also people who are easily swayed, choose to avoid than to face problems, do not like competition and thus avoid, also there are people who give up easily.
These different characters with different strengths in their wills, give them Haki of different strengths.
Then there's also other factors, such as their driving force.
People have different dreams and ambitions. If one only wants to enjoy peace by living a simple life, there's no need for an extremely strong will. If one wants to be extremely successful in life and wants the best, he gives his all to achieve that and has a strong will.
Then there's alternatives. If one lives in a chaotic environment, but all he wants is a peaceful and simple life, he will fight with all his will to get out of the chaos. If one only dreams of having a luxurious life, but he is lazy, he has a weak will and thus will most likely not achieve the dream.
The concept of Haki allows characters to be strong or weak based on their characters, interaction with others, upbringing and environments.
How does Haki relate to Ki? The closest example I can think of is force and force in a direction.
Ki is the amount of force one can apply, Haki is the force applied in a direction, this direction is the the intention and will of a person trying to overcome others. Its also like speed and velocity, speed is just speed, velocity has a direction.
The 'Haki burst' is one of the most common or fundamental applications of Haki in manga. When someone wants others to stop what they're doing without wanting to touch them, they send out a huge burst of intention usually using their eyes. By showing an expression of intense anger, it sends a wave of fear into the enemies, this is the basic application of Haki as a form of intimidation.
If your opponents' will is strong enough, they are not intimidated and it doesn't affect them. If they have weak wills, they may be petrified, run away, or even faint from terror.
Actually what you pointed out is one of the reasons why the West cannot grasp Haki. The Western perspective do not have an idea what 'Ki' is. Anyway I talked about the Force and Ki in the cultural references thread. And I've been a Star Wars fan for a long time, I can also tell you that everyone is part of the Force, but not everyone has the aptitude to use the Force.
Say a simple 'Force Push', it taps into the Force between the user and the target and applying his control of the Force, he pushes the Force against the target, causing the target to be pushed away. Everything is within the Force, users and non users. A Force user doesn't 'produce force', he manipulates the Force in everything to manipulate his surroundings. Why does it take so much control and concentration to push or lift a large object like the X Wing? Because the X Wing's mass means that it exerts alot on the Force, you need to manipulate alot of that Force to move it.
A non user is still part of the Force, they affect the Force, but it does not have the ability to manipulate it by will.
"Feel the Force, let the Force flow through you." You do not produce Force out of nothing, you manipulate and interact with the Force between and within all things. Anyway while this is similar to Haki, Haki in any context is completely different from the word play between Force and force.
Funny that you bring 'nen' into this topic as well, because 'nen' is a word just like 'haki', a normal everyday term in Japanese that the West sees as some kind of 'special concept'. Nen, in fact comes from the same intention and will power that Haki is based on.
The fact is the Japanese culture is very spiritual and sees the spirit, and will of a person as his strength. Your strength, health and emotions comes from a person's spirit, that spirit is 'Ki'. Oda is just another one of these spiritual Japanese and he's applying the exact same concept into One Piece.
I've already explained how Haki affects bows so many times in this thread, I've also addressed how Devil Fruit abilities doesn't matter against Haki.
Have you seen Fist of the North Star? I'll explain with it even if you've not watched it.
Kenshiro is known for his super human strength, he beats opponents into pulp. But his strongest moves are not based on strength, its based on Ki. He either strengthens himself with Ki or he destroys the opponents Ki. All his muscles are just a side effect from his training to help him master his Ki.
When fighting weak opponents, just simple muscle is needed, but when fighting truly strong opponents, Ki is what decides victory or defeat.
Raoh is a huge man, he's extremely powerful physically. But his physical strength came from his intention and will to become the strongest martial artist in the world. That intention and will, his ambition, is his Haki.
When Kenshiro fought Raoh, it was almost a non phsyical fight, it was a contest of Ki. Raoh's famous last punch, he yelled: "my entire soul's fist", it is the intention and will to defeat someone that gives you power, not your physical powers.
The Japanese view fights as a contest of wills and not a contest of strength. You do not win because you are strong, you win because you refuse to be defeated. That willpower and determination is the spirit, or Ki, that gives you victory.
Even in the real world,not just Japanese, even Western boxers, they do not rely on just their physical strength. They also need the willpower and determination to continue through the rounds and alot of them even pray to God before fights.
Actually if you've bothered to read more of my posts, you'll find out that that 'internal energy' is Ki. And Ki is a person's spirit, will, emotion, mood and health, in other words, the entire person. Your emotions, will and intention is your drive, it is the energy for you to accomplish something.
Why does Goku become stronger when he is angry? Why does Kenshiro become stronger with more sadness? Why does Domon become stronger when he calms himself? What is the power of love? Why is courage power? Why do Japanese say 'omoi no chikara', 'power of feelings'?
It is because in the Japanese culture, energy comes from your emotions and will, that is what Ki is about. [/hide]
Rarity:
[hide]Haki is literally in everything in One Piece and Oda already established it all the way back in Volume 1 with Shanks and the Seaking.
Haki has been working all the way, just that the word itself is not mentioned until recently or like 5 years ago. Haki has been around all the while, but now that its mentioned, Oda is trying to tell us that Haki will be something that will be making a difference from now on.
Luffy's grand dream and determination to be the Pirate King is what makes him so charismatic and powerful. Because he is so determined to become the Pirate King, he doesn't fall from defeat, he just keeps standing up and press on. His spirit makes his Nakama trust and believe in him and makes his enemies fear his strength. That is Luffy's Haki at work, all the way from the start.
–------------Well, at this point of the story, pretty much everyone being introduced is someone who's extremely powerful. And these people are so powerful because they have extremely strong wills, be it determination for goals, for duty or evil deeds.
From this point onwards into the New World, its basically a contest of wills for Luffy and his opponents. Another words Haki being the key to defeating his opponents.
And yes, it seems Oda really has incoporated Haki into One Piece right from the start. If Shanks demonstrated it on the Sea King so early, its safe to say stuff like Mantra and Rokuougan is related to Haki.
Yes, Haki itself is not rare, its Haki which had grown in people to be strong enough to be harnessed into a powerful force, that's rare.
And even rarer, is Haki as strong as Luffy's, which from the million's of Haki that can be used as an energy source, is most powerful.
And at Boa not mastering her Haki, its actually a mistranslation and mentioned earlier on somewhere in this subforum. That line is actually pointing to Luffy. Luffy's Haki right now is like a raw diamond that needs polishing. And once polished will become invaluable.[/hide]
Sakki:
[hide]About Zoro: I agree on parts where it is a manifestation of his Haki or rather Sakki(killing intent). Sakki is another form of Haki that is also very common in Eastern manga, Akuma and Evil Ryu is famous for their Sakki. Shun Goku Satsu is an attack that uses their Sakki to strike terror into the opponent, render them helpless and allows Akuma to unleash a killing combo. Sakki is a much darker form of Haki, it does not spread just fear of the individual, but fear that they may be killed.
Zoro's Asura strikes fear into the opponent messing up their minds and together with his incredibly fast movements, creates an illusion where he suddenly gains extra heads and limbs like the demon Asura himself.
–-------------
覇気
(はき) (haki): Aura of fear/dominance. The word '覇', means dominance, ruling over others, supremacy.殺気
(さっき) (sakki): Killing aura. The word '殺', means kill.Zoro's Asura turning Rankyaku into mist may also be the effect of him grasping the 'breath' of the air blades and he slices through them.[/hide]
Application and Growth:
[hide]Reputation, yes that reputation is the person's Haki itself. One's reputation is made up of his ambition, or simply the things he has done. A powerful man has a great reputation because his Haki made it so. Use my shop owner to CEO example above, that person's ambition to become more successful expanded his reputation, he becomes well known for his work.
The problem you have is that you think Haki is something that must be actively imbued, must be activated, or that it can only be used actively.
But no, what I've been saying is that Haki is both passive and active, you'll always have your Haki passively, but you can also actively raise it.
And like you said, its normal for people to freak out or be afraid of someone with a reputation. Because, yes Haki is just that, its just that normal. Like I said, Haki is in everyone, but you're thinking Haki is something rare. No, Haki is in everyone, but they must have this will and ambition to bring it out.
–-------------While our Haki theories here can be applied to many situations in One Piece so far, Oda has not shown us the full extent of Haki's capabilities. For that we can not really say what Haki can do beyond what we have seen.
Haki and Sakki does weaken wills and is exactly what's happening in most cases. But if two people of extremely high will clash, it will be a will 'topping over another situation'. These people's wills are so strong, they don't falter, but they can still be defeated if the opponent's will is stronger in the end. And if 2 wills are both exceedingly strong, we get something like Shanks vs Whitebeard, their wills don't bend but other things, maybe the sky bends for them
Haki is not just an offensive effect, it also strengthen your spirits of your allies as a whole. It is just like an aura that strengthens yourself and people who are in your aura.
If any of Whitebeard's sons be able to stand up to Shank's powerful Haki alone? They would probably be in fear if they're to face Shanks alone. But as a group, they do not have as much fear, because they are held by each other's Haki and especially Whitebeard's Haki. They know that if Shanks were to do anything, Whitebeard would be there, their Nakama will be there for them, so they do not fear Shanks as much. Though the weaker ones still collapsed from fear.
That intimdating stare, _is[/is] Haki itself. That is the basic, most fundamental way of expressing your will, by visually threatening someone. Then apply my 'potential difference' example again. If you're not expressing any aggression, and the person stares back at you, of course you'd turn away. But if you're more aggressive in staring, he will be the one turning away. Even when staring at a girl, if she has a piercing look which tells you not to stare at her, you'd turn away. If she's shy and not as strong in her presence, she'll be the one turning away from your stare. If both of you are attracted to each other, you lock your eyes.
Haki is this balance of wills and intentions, who ever doesn't have the stronger intention, will turn away.
And Haki is not a thing that can only be found in certain people or types of people. It is a trait of a person's character, it is a form of mentality that affects people. Saying someone can't have Haki, is like saying someone does not have the ability to threaten or make friends. All living things can threaten or make friends, DF-users, non-DF-users, all of them can threaten or make friends, all of them can use Haki.
–-------------Seeing that everything goes to extremes in One Piece, Oda can stretch Haki as much as he wants.
Haki has been stretched in similar ways in Chinese manhwa, arrows that transform into firey phoenixes, materialising blades using Haki and doing stuff similar to 'Unlimited Blade Works' etc.
Even the basic 'Hadoken' from Street Fighter has Haki fundamentals.
I don't have much to say, everything I needed to say has already been posted. My description of Haki is exactly what Haki means and how it can relate to One Piece. Its not speculation, its definition, but I cannot say its exactly how Oda is using the term Haki, just that whatever Oda has shown so far, is exactly like what Haki is supposed to be.
People are scared of the Admirals because they have their abilities, completely true.
People are scared of Shanks, Rayleigh, Whitebeard, because they are incredibly powerful, that's true.
Now compare both sentences, people are scared of the Admirals and the Yonkou, because, why? Because they are powerful.
It doesn't matter whether they have abilities, are using guns, swords or just incredibly strong. They are feared just because of these strengths and powers that they have. This strength is exactly, part of their Haki.
Haki is this atmosphere that a person creates, whether he is threatening or charismatic, whether he is feared as an enemy or respected as an ally. It is the entire composition of the person's will and intention, the way his carries out his ambition. It doesn't matter what is his power, that power will become the reason why he is feared or respected, which also means that its also his reputation.
When a person's Haki is strong enough to go against another person's will, not just Devil Fruit abilities, he can shrug off a person's attacks as well, just because his will is stronger. Yes I'm refering to Sentoumaru, I dare to state that he is someone who knows how to use his Haki effectively.
Luffy was hurt by him not because Sentoumaru's Haki cancels his rubber ability, not that he cancels the Devil Fruit. Its that his will overcomes Luffy's will, which includes his ability and hurts Luffy directly. At that moment Sentoumaru had brought his Haki to a peak and Luffy's will is weaker that his, and for that Luffy's attacks can't hurt him as well. Think of Luffy's rubber skin as a shield, Sentoumaru hits so hard that the shield did not provide a significant defence at all. Think of Luffy's attack as just a simple attack, Sentoumaru was willing to go against him so much that his attack doesn't matter at all.
Here's a very simple way to look at things, lets say Haki can be calculated, this is how it will be calculated:
Pirate A:
[Strong personality (10 points) + devil fruit ability (10 points) + superhuman strength (10 points)] x weak control of Haki (0.5 multiplier)
= 30 x 0.5
= 15 Haki pointsPirate B:
[Strong personality (10 points) + superhuman strength (10 points) + good weapon (5 points)] x moderate control of Haki (1.0 multiplier)
= 25 x 1.0
= 25 Haki pointsPirate C:
[Moderate personality (5 points) + super human strength (10 points)] x great control of Haki (2.0 multiplier)
= 15 x 2.0
= 30 Haki pointsThis is exactly how Haki would work if its in maths. You can see that the conditions in [square brackets], are exactly what makes up the Haki of a person, and then there's a multiplier which is determined by how good the person can control his Haki. Pirate C, even with a moderate personality, not too determined, can defeat Pirate A and B who are strong opponents.
But if Pirate A is Luffy, and he has learnt how to control his Haki, which makes his multiplier increase, he will be stronger than both Pirate B and C.
This is exactly how Haki works in One Piece.
–-------------The Haki of a person is every single bit of will and intention, the means of having that will and intention and everything that makes up what a person wants to do. In an environment where people compete and struggle against each other, that will and determination that one carries to help bring him to the top, is Haki. Whether you do it by being extremely strong, extremely clever, have a powerful weapon, or have a Devil Fruit ability, it all adds up to be the Haki you have.
And with your Haki, you are competing against the Haki of others. Some band together and merge their Haki, to work towards the same goal, others go against you, as an individual or as a group.
Having strong Haki doesn't mean you will win, because your opponent also has Haki. As I've described in earlier posts, Haki works as a balance of the fighters' wills, Magellan definitely has his own will and determination.Is Luffy's will to save Ace stronger than Magellan's will to stop Luffy from saving Ace? Can that will also be equal?
While Haki is compared, we still have to take into account their powers and abilities, Luffy had no defence against poison. You can even say that Magellan's poisons can directly rob a person of their fighting spirit. Be it paralysis, intense pain, direct tissue damage, all these afflictions will damage one's will.
Luffy's lack of control of his Haki at this point makes him still quite average against the most powerful characters.
Using Haki, what does it mean?
People use Haki all the time, its part of their personality and mood. There's actually only a tiny difference between the way martial artists like the Amazons use Haki and how normal fighters use Haki.
Martial artists are trained to assume aggression in a fight, it becomes part of their routine, they can switch in on and off. This trained aggression and the ability to go into the state of aggression instantaneously is whats different from normal fighters. The Amazons are constantly ready for a fight, they draw their bows and shoot with true intention to hit, this is their controlled aggression.
Normal fighters only become truly aggressive when they're serious, when they feel angered, intense pressure or under stress. This is like Luffy, he only gets serious when he feels that his Nakama is threatened, when lives are at stake. This is when he gets truly aggressive, only when he feels the mood.
Say a street gangster is to get into a fight with a pro boxer. The gangster will taunt at the boxer for a while laughing and not taking it serious. But then the boxer gives him an intense stare and throws a serious punch at the gangster. Only now the gangster will realise that the boxer is serious business and he himself becomes serious and have real aggression.
That seriousness and state of aggression is when Haki is brought out.
Now compare it to Shanks and Rayleigh. For a moment they are smiling and docile, in the next they assume an intense and intimidating stare, did they have training as a martial artist?
No, you do not need to be a martial artist to learn how to be aggressive. Shanks and Rayleigh are people who have gone through real combat and life and death situations, they know when to get serious or not. They can bring out their Haki anytime, they can switch from docile to aggressive immediately.
Luffy only got the same aggression, the intimidating stare after going through many life and death situations, but he is still not serious enough, he is still not mature enough. He can only bring out this Haki when he feels threatened, when lives are at stake, like when he shouted and gave the intense look on his face when Hancock wanted the 3 Amazons to be smashed.
The eyes are important, it tells of a person's will and intentions. Like many people earlier on in the story, the people who knew Roger, said that Luffy had the same eyes as him. And Luffy only recently has gotten the exact same look in his eyes, the Haki that will make him the Pirate King.
I don't call it a 'forced effort', I call it a controlled effort. The ability to have control over your state of mind, your mood, is important in controlling your Haki. What Luffy needs to learn now is to be serious when the situation needs it and not only when he truly feels threatened.
About flashiness of Ki, it can be flashy, but its up to the mangaka.
First, a real life example, Shaolin Monks. If you've ever seen them channeling and regulating their Ki before smashing steel on the heads or resisting sharp weapons stuck into them, you'll see they do alot of big movements and stances that's almost like a dance. That can be described as 'flashy'.
And in manga, Haki can be exaggerated depending on how far the mangaka wants to suspend belief, like the Chinese Manhua Feng Yun, I mentioned above.
In Fist of the North Star, Ki or Haki are represented by a flaming aura around the fighter. Kenshiro also intimidates his opponents with a piercing stare, or with a hotblooded yell, usually before he does his Hyakuretsu Ken.
In Street Fighter mangas(I've repeated this example many times in this subforum), you get Ki that's represented as auras of different colours. The colour of the aura shows how powerful the fighter is and can be seen only by other fighters. And Gouki, famous for his flames is actually representing his Sakki(intention to kill). His Sakki is so strong that it manifests into flames. Of course there's always Hadoken and other projectiles that are also manifestations of Ki into something tangible.
Will Oda give Luffy Hadokens? Most probably not, because Oda is using a non flashy adaptation of Haki. More down to Earth, to show the extent of a person's will, through a person's determination and intentions. The Haki is shown through a person's actions and not a fireball of will like Hadoken or like Kamehameha.
And intimidation is not just what Haki is all about, phsyical intimidation is the weakest form of Haki. You can also be intimidated by a person's reputation, which means his reputation is his Haki. And the person has a reputation because he has an intention, an ambition. A powerful Haki comes from a person with great ambition, his power and authority makes him an intimidating man.
To intimidate is to frighten, cause fear, remove courage and weaken spirits. People do faint in real life from fear, it happens from time to time. Its the same thing when manga characters use a Haki burst to intimidate people, its just exaggerated. The intimidation, fear is so strong that a group of people can faint at the same time. Those with stronger wills were just left shocked or paralysed by fear instead of fainting.
A weapon is an extension of a fighter's body. When a fighter swings a weapon, he doesn't do it randomly, there is emphasis and intention to hit in every swing or stroke. Its just in manga, its exaggerated in such a way that the intention to hit can even be passed into an arrow so much that it smashes rocks. I've used the example of the Hong Kong manhua Feng Yun, where there's extensive practice of Haki in their martial arts. There was this guy who used a bow, who's arrows are homing phoenixes formed from his Haki. The arrows had so much intention that it 'comes to life' and become a phoenix that chases its target.
For predicting attacks, it will need a little bit more explanation. It could be a unique skill to Sandersonia, no one is sure, but Haki was indeed used in manga to predict attacks before.
Very simple, non Haki explanation:
Sandersonia is a snake, snakes can 'taste the air' with their tongues, in fact its their most important method of sensing the surroundings. By using their tongues to flicker through the air, they can not only smell/taste their targets, but they can also feel the air currents and pressure from movements in the air. Sandersonia could be using this sensitive ability to predict movements, an exaggerated manga effect.
Haki explanation:
I've been saying Ki is everything, its the atmosphere, mood and spirit.
Example, a house on the top of the hill has a reputation to be haunted, people are afraid of getting close to it. You and your friend decide to enter it for fun. The house has broken windows, creaking doors and floors, spiderwebs all over the place. It has a spooky atmosphere, your adventurous spirit changes to fear as you sense that there's someone staring at you all the time, giving a spooky presence. Your mood changes as the air feels kind of chilly, sending chills down your spine, you decide to leave.
That is the Ki that the haunted house makes, '怖気', ozoke, frightening Ki, it has a frightful, spooky atmosphere that makes people scared. But if you're brave enough, the house will not scare you. And if the house is renovated and made to look new, it will not have a spooky atmosphere anymore, unless people know of its old reputation and may still be spooked at times. Japanese attributes mood directly to how the atmosphere feels.
In English there's 'the tension in the air was so thick, it could be cut with a knife', this is a description similar to what Ki describes, the air is the mood.
People can create the mood of the occasion, imagine everyone is on a fun trip. But some guy decides to be stupid and plays a prank on a girl. The girl was hurt and cries, everyone's spirits were dampened because of that.
And back at Haki. Haki is the mood and atmosphere that someone carries when they are in a fight, that intention to defeat each other also sends intimidation to both sides. Can fighters train themselves to read the atmosphere of a fight so well that they can predict moves? Can the intentions of a fighter be read through the air? It can be similar to how Mantra works in the Skypeia arc, through great understanding of Haki, you may also be able to read intentions like how Mantra 'hears'.
In other manga, there are indeed applications of Haki to sense the opponents intentions and next move. But because its used by Sandersonia in One Piece, it may also still just be Sandersonia's unique ability, using her snake senses to not just feel air movements, but Ki itself. She definitely predicts movements by sensing through the air.[/hide]
The breath of all things:
[hide]The concept of breath, '呼吸' ( こきゅう) (kokyuu), which literally does mean breath or breathing, is closely related to ki '気' (き). Ki means mood, spirit and can also be air.
The involuntary action of breathing is a frequency that happens within you, you can say its the frequency of your life, your spirit. In eastern belief, Ki exists in all things, but it doesn't mean that everything breathes in air. But rather everything has a frequency in them, a frequency of their spirit. In One Piece they call this frequency the breath of all things.
You can transfer Ki from one body to another, from one object to another. In this form, Ki becomes energy, it is also the energy that exists in all things. The spirit of all things is their inherent energy. When you fan the air, you transfer energy from your hand to the fan and into the wind, making a breeze. When you fan really hard, you'll need to breathe harder.
If you can control your breath, you can control your energy and release them as powers under your control. In One Piece its just that these characters as so powerful, they can do amazing stuff with their Ki, the energy they have in them. Like kicking air into a Rankyaku.
As all things have a frequency in them, it means they have a resonant frequency. If you can adjust your frequency to their frequencies, you become a counter to them and you can cause it to act in your will. All things have different frequencies, so you can't use the frequency of slicing a piece of leaf to slice rock, the same other way round. Something that Zoro was supposed to understand and demonstrate.
And also like I mentioned above, Ki is also mood. When you're angry you breathe harder, when you're happy you breathe faster, when you're sad you have weak breaths. So a powerful fighter must be able to control his mood, his ki, so that he can control his power. Can you imagine for yourself what kind of ki, breathing you have when you're expressing Haki and Sakki?
–-------------You brought Breath of all things into the topic. You should realise that 'Breath' is really 'Ki' itself. All things in the universe has this energy, this force, which is its 'Ki'.
When Zoro's master taught him to realise the Breath of all things, he really means to be able to be one with the Ki of all things. To be one with an object, is to have a same frequency with that object. In the concept of Ki, to attain the same frequency, one has to regulate his breathing, the act of breathing is the frequency of your lifeforce and you can control it. By controlling your emotions and laying down your intentions, you can control your breathing and release energy to cut anything you wish to.
This is what I believe Breath of all things refer to.
Instead of Breath of all things being Haki itself, knowing the Breath is one way of strengthening your Haki. By knowing how to control your Ki, you can control your Haki, you can push it in a direction with greater force.
The reason why Zoro still has to meditate, is because he hasn't mastered the technique. When he first used Breath on Mr 1, it was his first time using and he had to concentrate by meditating. After that Zoro has been getting more used to Breath and he was slicing steel with less concentration. As they say, practice makes perfect, Zoro will eventually be able to use Breath literally like part of his breathing.[/hide]
I sincerely hope this helps your understanding of Haki and/or the series in general, as well as your future discussions and arguments._
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Using anime to prove a point?
You're asking to be laughed at.
They didn't even make it look like a rope, like in the manga.
It looks like a whip-shaped flame in the anime. Something that Ace could do with his ability. WTF?
Why do you waste your time? He discredit triple C translation and took anime as face value. He won't even accept the move is called Excess whip string.
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Why do you waste your time? He discredit triple C translation and took anime as face value. He won't even accept the move is called Excess whip string.
Yet anime team gotten same idea for animating attack and making it induced with heat(of course they overdid it).
So still many people gotten same idea that super fast whip like attack called Overheat or "excess whip string" can be heatened up thanks to friction string. -
Using anime to prove a point?
You're asking to be laughed at.
They didn't even make it look like a rope, like in the manga.
It looks like a whip-shaped flame in the anime. Something that Ace could do with his ability. WTF?
Ohh no dude I'm already laughing
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I sincerely hope this helps your understanding of Haki and/or the series in general, as well as your future discussions and arguments.
See, Zoro learned haki against Mr. 1
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See, Zoro learned haki against Mr. 1
He did it involuntary, sort of like Luffy using kings haki at marineford.
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He did it involuntary, sort of like Luffy using kings haki at marineford.
He didn't do shit
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This post is deleted!
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Yet anime team gotten same idea for animating attack and making it induced with heat(of course they overdid it).
So still many people gotten same idea that super fast whip like attack called Overheat or "excess whip string" can be heatened up thanks to friction string.Dude. It's a PUN. Just a pun!
The only reason it's called Overheat is because it's a pun. Obahito. Oda does it all the time. It means "Excess Whip String", which is basically what's happening on-panel, but read as "Obahito". It doesn't have anything to do with fire, and doesn't imply any connection with fire, it's just one of those things that gets lost in translation.
Next you'll tell me "Roukaru Area Network" from Jabra is supposed to magically connect him to the internet. Or how Blackbeard's "Kurouzu" should be a water-based attack.
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Dude. It's a PUN. Just a pun!
The only reason it's called Overheat is because it's a pun. Obahito. Oda does it all the time. It means "Excess Whip String", which is basically what's happening on-panel, but read as "Obahito". It doesn't have anything to do with fire, and doesn't imply any connection with fire, it's just one of those things that gets lost in translation.
Next you'll tell me "Roukaru Area Network" from Jabra is supposed to magically connect him to the internet. Or how Blackbeard's "Kurouzu" should be a water-based attack.
I think what he says is that in the anime they animate his Obahito attack being on fire. I know you can't use the anime as a base, I'm just saying I think it's his reasoning for it not being just a pun.
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I think what he says is that in the anime they animate his Obahito attack being on fire. I know you can't use the anime as a base, I'm just saying I think it's his reasoning for it not being just a pun.
But that's just it. You can't use the anime as a basis. The only thing that can be used is the manga, and supplementary material to that.
The anime can do what they like, but all you can use is the manga, and King Cannon is right on the money. If it was meant to be a fire based attack, Oda would draw obvious clues to such. He's really, really, really good at drawing elemental effects and making them look convincing and natural in a black and white manga, after all.
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But that's just it. You can't use the anime as a basis. The only thing that can be used is the manga, and supplementary material to that.
The anime can do what they like, but all you can use is the manga, and King Cannon is right on the money. If it was meant to be a fire based attack, Oda would draw obvious clues to such. He's really, really, really good at drawing elemental effects and making them look convincing and natural in a black and white manga, after all.
Hey, I agree with you. It's what I hate about the anime, though I still watch it cause I do enjoy the voice acting.
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I don't see how Doffy could use fire, and I don't see any fire effect in the manga either.
But let's be honest, the anime makes it this way and it's a far better (but not absolute) proof than "I understand Oda's drawing more than you".
I still think that there wasn't fire involved in the manga. But let's not consider Vagabond's only valid argument as bullshit.
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I don't see how Doffy could use fire, and I don't see any fire effect in the manga either.
But let's be honest, the anime makes it this way and it's a far better (but not absolute) proof than "I understand Oda's drawing more than you".
I still think that there wasn't fire involved in the manga. But let's not consider Vagabond's only valid argument as bullshit.Dude is Vegabond, even If the manga has this so call "fire" people will still take it as BS because he has destroyed his own reputation (Not like I have one lol), but still anime gives the serie a more vivid atmosphere than the manga but it doesn't mean that one should use it as an argument in a hellish place like this, we'll destroy your ass for doing that Guaguaajajaja
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It does not have that light-effect around itself as Doflamingos whip does in middle panel.
I assure you I can tell difference between simple effect of fast moving objects.This is bullshit for instance. But using the anime as a source isn't that stupid. It's just not really convincing.
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I don't see how Doffy could use fire, and I don't see any fire effect in the manga either.
But let's be honest, the anime makes it this way and it's a far better (but not absolute) proof than "I understand Oda's drawing more than you".
I still think that there wasn't fire involved in the manga. But let's not consider Vagabond's only valid argument as bullshit.It could also be that since it does move at a fast speed that it causes friction even in the air. Tehn it could just be greatly exaggerated in the anime, making the friction cause fire.
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Yet anime team gotten same idea for animating attack and making it induced with heat(of course they overdid it).
So still many people gotten same idea that super fast whip like attack called Overheat or "excess whip string" can be heatened up thanks to friction string.But "Excess Whip String" doesn't have any reference to heat, which is something to consider as those alternate attack names tend to be more descriptive.
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Hey, I agree with you. It's what I hate about the anime, though I still watch it cause I do enjoy the voice acting.
Yeah. You know, it's actually kind of interesting. I really dislike the anime, but the biggest reason why that is is because I feel it distorts your understanding of the story. Filler is doubly guilty of this, even if it's good. You start to remember stuff that didn't happen, cause it was only covered in the anime, and even your understanding of the characters can be slightly off because of this.
For me this only applies with One Piece.
This is bullshit for instance. But using the anime as a source isn't that stupid. It's just not really convincing.
But I'm going to argue that it is. Anime is only an interpretation of the manga. It's not a source, it can never be considered a source. The only thing that works is the manga itself, and databooks and SBS and stuff like that.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So yeah, when it comes to trying to figure this stuff out, trying to examine Oda's drawing is much, much more sound than deferring to the anime.
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Yeah. You know, it's actually kind of interesting. I really dislike the anime, but the biggest reason why that is is because I feel it distorts your understanding of the story. Filler is doubly guilty of this, even if it's good. You start to remember stuff that didn't happen, cause it was only covered in the anime, and even your understanding of the characters can be slightly off because of this.
For me this only applies with One Piece.
I can't agree more, I'm not sure on anything anymore without checking back on the manga first. It's why it's great you make those One Piece analysis/summaries
I do wonder how much Oda communicates with the people doing the anime, cause even the smallest details can cause a lot of problems. -
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I can't agree more, I'm not sure on anything anymore without checking back on the manga first. It's why it's great you make those daily One Piece analysis/summaries
Oh, shit, I gotta get back on that
As far as how much Oda communicates with the anime team, honestly it doesn't matter. Oda was once asked in an SBS if he would make the events of Strong World canon. He said he wouldn't do that, which makes sense. It would be unfair for Oda to include the events of a movie into the manga, because not everyone may have seen it, and then people get confused. The way Oda sees it, the manga and the manga alone should be enough for people to get information. There are exceptions to this, like how Daddy Masterson was cut from the manga so they put him into the anime. But those are very rare occurrences.
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But I'm going to argue that it is. Anime is only an interpretation of the manga. It's not a source, it can never be considered a source. The only thing that works is the manga itself, and databooks and SBS and stuff like that.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So yeah, when it comes to trying to figure this stuff out, trying to examine Oda's drawing is much, much more sound than deferring to the anime.
Exactly, it's an interpretaion. So it's worth being considered as a relatively good argument. As the argument against the use of fire in this scene is also an interpretation(that I share
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Oh, shit, I gotta get back on that
As far as how much Oda communicates with the anime team, honestly it doesn't matter. Oda was once asked in an SBS if he would make the events of Strong World canon. He said he wouldn't do that, which makes sense. It would be unfair for Oda to include the events of a movie into the manga, because not everyone may have seen it, and then people get confused. The way Oda sees it, the manga and the manga alone should be enough for people to get information. There are exceptions to this, like how Daddy Masterson was cut from the manga so they put him into the anime. But those are very rare occurrences.
That's interesting I didn't know about the Daddy Masterson being cut. What I mean to say though is that it could cause problems for the anime. A small thing like a scar or certain words that are interpreted differently could cause a big problem in the future, because of the way Oda writes his manga. The manga would do fine, but the anime could have major inconsistencies. Like it apparently happened when they censored some stuff in the anime for a younger audience (I think I read that it had to do with the arm of Shanks not being cut off). So it could just as well happen to the anime if there's some misinterpretations. Which is why I think Oda has to has at least oversee the anime to a small degree.
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He didn't do shit
According to the post explaining haki, Zorro learned ki during his fight with Daz Bones.
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According to the post explaining haki, Zorro learned ki during his fight with Daz Bones.
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