Last one. We probably shouldn't drag this out much more. Beyond this it will probably just be my opinion and yours left. Either way it is still only speculation, but as I stated the hints seem obvious to me. HINTS. Not facts or confirmation necessarily. Just hints. Anyways:
[hide]@CodedTech:
It's possible that's the case, but I hardly see that as being obvious. All you're basically saying here is listing scenes, making assumptions, and claiming to know exactly what Oda has stated. Which you've been doing in all your replies to me.
I guess. I guess I am assuming that when Luffy says he is hurt, Sandersonia responds that he doesn't know how to use Haki and is weak because of it, and because Oda is centering this arc around Haki, that it is obvious that Sandersonia is using Haki to hurt Luffy. If I am wrong, I am wrong. I just cannot imagine it anything else considering how Oda writes his story. When someone who is made of rubber says, "Why does this hurt? I'm made of rubber" am I really supposed to believe that he is simply getting hit or squeezed really hard? If so, why have Luffy say anything? I just don't get it. It would be stupid. Pointless. When Oda draws really hard hits, you can tell because the way it is drawn. And what would be the point of saying "I'm rubber, this shouldn't hurt" unless it shouldn't hurt. I mean if being hit hard enough meant he would get hurt, I'm pretty sure Luffy would be able to figure out why – despite being rubber -- he is getting hurt. All these hits and squeezing have been completely normal, and yet Luffy cries out in pain to which Sandersonia responds that Haki > everyone.
@CodedTech:
So you're saying Haki does "nullify devil fruits" and she was using Haki then. And by applying haki into the floor she would've hurt him? So how do you suppose she was hurting him before? I don't really get what you line of reasoning here at all.
How do you not understand this? Think about it this way: Franky is metal on the front and soft on the back. If someone in front of Franky can curve the path of their weapon to hit Franky's back, then they are bypassing his defense. If the make the attack hit his back so hard that he is sent flying into a wall, his metal front protects him from the wall, while the bypassing of his defense on his back is still hurt. Does that make sense? Sandersonia is bypassing Luffy's DF defense by using Haki, but unless she imbues the floor to bypass his defense as well, slamming him into the floor would be useless because Luffy is still rubber. She is only able to bypass this by using Haki. How does that translate to "nullify devil fruits"? If the floor was imbued as well, it would have bypassed his defense and he would have been hurt the same way their attacks were hurting him. Again, the alternative is that she is suddenly now so much stronger because Haki amplified her strength, that she can destroy walls and break iron fences, but she turns it off for no reason when she slams Luffy into the floor. Again, this alternative also assumes Luffy is so stupid he cannot figure out that "because she is now so strong, it hurts me even though I am rubber" and that Oda feels compelled to have Luffy say this out loud. For no reason. Even though he never does that.
@CodedTech:
There's been an indication that a strong enough attack hurts Luffy before. Such as in the Foxy fight which can't simply be attributed to endurance as the fight wasn't as long as his other lengthy melee fights. All slowing down tie did was build up the blunt force damage from his blows.
Yeah. There have been indications. I know. I'm not sure how to take that really, but Zik made a good comment on this: Being rubber doesn't make Luffy immune to physical attacks, it just makes him incredibly resistant to them. Hitting him still hurts, just a lot less. Hitting him extremely hard would be more akin to a regular punch to someone. However, when he gets hit by something and exclaims, "ouch, why did that hurt me!?" that signifies Luffy's rubber defense being bypassed and him being hurt like a normal human. Thus his incredulous responses like from the impact dial and roukuougan.
@CodedTech:
The Hollow Tree Tekkai hurt Luffy from what I recall. Nonetheless, that has nothing to do with the point I was making in the quote you replied to. It was a matter of how him reacting in that fashion does not make the conclusion you came to obvious being the only one. The similarities in this case under the assumption that they do increase their strength, would be a sudden change in a particular characteristic. Which Luffy would obviously react in the same fashion as has before (such as in the examples I provided, including Tekkia.)
To me it is obvious then. Put it this way: find me a single instance in the entire manga where Luffy exclaimed that something hurt him when it shouldn't have, or anyone exclaimed it hurt him when it shouldn't have, and then provide evidence that it wasn't a special or unexplained device like Fist of Love, Roukuougan, Impact Dial, and Sentoumaru, then I will concede that Oda writing Luffy's confusion wasn't an obvious point that the attacks weren't normal and that something else was going on. On the other hand, as far as I can remember every single instance of this happening was when there was a mystery device coming into play that would later be explained: Impact Dial (explained after), Roukuougan (explained after, somewhat), Fist of Love (explained after, barely), Sentoumaru (commented on, not completely explained yet), and Boa Sisters (commented on, not completely explained yet). Due to the evidence of Oda only writing these comments when there was a reason, I find it obvious that he has a reason for making them now. I guess I am assuming, yes. But the alternative seems silly to me. If I am wrong, I am wrong. Still seems silly though.[/hide]