I'm replying to the argument made, that the Supernova's have a too cool design to go down, which I don't consider a valid reason at all since it has been proven times and again that cool designed characters fail to keep up with the Strawhats at some point.
Chapter 510 "Straw Hat Crew vs. Combat Weapon" Discussion
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I'm obviously talking about everybody with a cool design who gets defeated as the story progresses. This includes antagonists aswell as side characters (like Wiper and Pauly for instance).
It doesn't matter if they are there and doing their own thing. The point I made is that at a certain point they either lost to the Strawhats (like Enel, CP9 or Moria) OR weren't able to get the job done the Strawhats did (like Vivi, Wiper, the Shipwrights or the FF). So yep, others pretty much fail at what the Strawhats are able to accomplish. Cool designs and creative powers don't save them from that fate. If they are not part of the protagonists themselves they won't be able to keep up at some point.
Big difference between support characters like Vivi, Paulie, and Wiper and the SNs. They weren't immediatly put in the same peer group as Zolo&Luffy and there stories were tied to particular story arcs where of course the protagonist helped them accomplish what they could not on their own. There stories ended appropriately as well, not exactly failures since they're living happily ever after.
The SN stories are tied to the New world. Ending their stories now turns them into complete failures and servies absolutely no purpose. Worst of all its because of the SH actions that upset what was supposed to be just a big pit-stop, not because of their own mistakes or their past biting them in the ass. Seems the reverse of all the arcs where the SH showed up to end a wrong.
This is a perfect time to show how these individuals got through challenges comparable to Alabasta, Whisky Peak, Water7, Enies Lobby, and everything in East Blue. I say individuals because in Hawkins case I doubt his crew played a substantial role gaining such huge bounty thats only surpassed by 2 captains who had powerful/skilled crewmates supporting them.
Really just seems surviving this War-zone is Oda's way of making up for the extra experience SH got from TB&Skypiea, before having their actual confrontations in the New World.
I'm replying to the argument made, that the Supernova's have a too cool design to go down,
Neither I or the person you originally quoted was making that argument.
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Big difference between support characters like Vivi, Paulie, and Wiper and the SNs. They weren't immediatly put in the same peer group as Zolo&Luffy and there stories were tied to particular story arcs where of course the protagonist helped them accomplish what they could not on their own. There stories ended appropriately as well, not exactly failures since they're living happily ever after.
Only by first appearance they appear to be different. However from a storytellers perspective you can reduce them to one common denominator. Which would be that they serve as device to hype the obstacles the protagonists face and consequently show how special said protagonists are.
In a lesser abstract way it means that the Supernovas if they fail to obstacles like Admirals, Shichibukai, poor coating and possibly a bounty hunter follow the same structural concept as the Shandians who fail to overcome Enel or Galley-La who fail to overcome CP9.
Everything that appears to be different inside the fictional world just shows how creative you can get with the same narrative concept.
Neither I or the person you originally quoted was making that argument.
Didn't NuFiasco say that he believes that ALL the SN's will make it otherwise it would be to pointless to have them introduced that way? Ok, the entire cool design came from my own fingers, but basically I interpret that statement as, "since they are here it would be a waste to see them fail". And if that's the case then I'm disagreeing with it because of what I explained in this post. If that wasn't the argument, well then screw me for my flawed reading comprehension.
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I believe that there will be others to make to the New World just based on the fact that there are more than two Supernova. If it was just SH and 1 SN then we could say that the other could fall in order to show how dangerous the New World is. But with 8 other crews there is no way that all of them will fall. It is true that there are other threats such as the Marines and World government (I'm not counting the Shichi, they're pretty much done for) but we I think that since One Piece is entering it's second half that Oda is going to change up the pacing of the series.
It will no longer be [Island-Fun-Danger-Fight-Party-Sail-Repeat]But it will be a new format that will allow for more of the past characters to re-enter the story along with new characters and recurring Mains other than the Strawhats. The Supernovas will be a parallel force that the Strawhats will encounter numerous times in their voyage and will fall as the series goes on. I would not be surprised if one or two made it to the last couple of arcs of the series.
If anything, this arc, all the supernova will team up to destroy Kizaru and the Kumabts.(I'm going to use that as my band name)
I know I stated that all as fact but, I don't feel like changing it to sound like an opinion
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You'll notice I did anyway just to show Moria I could.
You did not (could not) have any argument.
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Yeah, but who said the straw hats has to defeat all of those guys? It'd be very unrealistic ( and bad story telling) for Oda to do all that. I believe all the supernova will make it otherwise it was lame and pointless for Oda to introduce them in such a way. I think all of em are going to play some kind of role in the New World, big or small.
I never said the SHs had to defeat all these guys. I also think this is ridiculous. My statement was that there are already so many characters that the SHs will interact with, and adding eight (8) more at once just seems like too much.
This is a perfect time to show how these individuals got through challenges comparable to Alabasta, Whisky Peak, Water7, Enies Lobby, and everything in East Blue. I say individuals because in Hawkins case I doubt his crew played a substantial role gaining such huge bounty thats only surpassed by 2 captains who had powerful/skilled crewmates supporting them.
Really just seems surviving this War-zone is Oda's way of making up for the extra experience SH got from TB&Skypiea, before having their actual confrontations in the New World.
You've actually hit the nail right on the head here. It is the perfect time to show how these supernovas deal with tough challenges. So what if the SHs are the ones who created the challenge, we know the SHs will get away being the protagonists. The other supernovas will have to battle it out and hope they get lucky in getting away from an Admiral. Perhaps, they will all make it, but it just seems so opportunistic for Oda to have a few of them fall here. This would show us that some of them were good enough to get this far, but they can't get any further, where as, the ones who escape are capable of making it "to" the New World.
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I believe that there will be others to make to the New World just based on the fact that there are more than two Supernova. If it was just SH and 1 SN then we could say that the other could fall in order to show how dangerous the New World is. But with 8 other crews there is no way that all of them will fall. It is true that there are other threats such as the Marines and World government (I'm not counting the Shichi, they're pretty much done for) but we I think that since One Piece is entering it's second half that Oda is going to change up the pacing of the series.
I never said that all of them will fall now. Should be clear from the posts where I stated who I think/hope will make it (Law, Hawkins, Drake, Apoo, Bonney). For the obstacles of Sabaody to live up to their hype, they don't need to take down ALL SN's but at the same time they definitely have to take some down the threat they impose becomes laugable from a narrative perspective.
And those guys who make it will also (however on the long run) also at some point fail to keep up with the Strawhats because as we know from the Highlander, there can be only one.
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True, But with the multitudes of fodder pirates on the Archipelago, why should any of the novas fall? Oda could make his point just as easily if Captain Bucktooth Timber is taken out rather than Urouge or Hawkins.
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True, But with the multitudes of fodder pirates on the Archipelago, why should any of the novas fall? Oda could make his point just as easily if Captain Bucktooth Timber is taken out rather than Urouge or Hawkins.
Taking out fodder pirates has no impact. If you want to make an example of something/someone, isn't it better to use someone famous. It's exactly like what Kizaru said to Hawkins about leaving such a bounty head alone.
As for Oda making his point w/ Captain Bucktooth Timber, great adlib btw, this doesn't work either, because he has to show how much more powerful an Admiral is than the supernovas. However, he's now done that and there's a large possibilities these guys may get away. My preference would be for some of them to get captured.
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I believe that there will be others to make to the New World just based on the fact that there are more than two Supernova. If it was just SH and 1 SN then we could say that the other could fall in order to show how dangerous the New World is. But with 8 other crews there is no way that all of them will fall. It is true that there are other threats such as the Marines and World government (I'm not counting the Shichi, they're pretty much done for) but we I think that since One Piece is entering it's second half that Oda is going to change up the pacing of the series.
It will no longer be [Island-Fun-Danger-Fight-Party-Sail-Repeat]But it will be a new format that will allow for more of the past characters to re-enter the story along with new characters and recurring Mains other than the Strawhats. The Supernovas will be a parallel force that the Strawhats will encounter numerous times in their voyage and will fall as the series goes on. I would not be surprised if one or two made it to the last couple of arcs of the series.
If anything, this arc, all the supernova will team up to destroy Kizaru and the Kumabts.(I'm going to use that as my band name)
I know I stated that all as fact but, I don't feel like changing it to sound like an opinion
Except for Law, Kid and perhaps Drake, although I doubt it since he wasn't at the human auction, I don't we'll ever see much more of the other supernovae apart from their demise.
While I too believe that Kizaru is going down there's no way the supernovae will team up to do it. The SH will take him down all by themselves, perhaps Luffy will even do it on his own.
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You did not (could not) have any argument.
Quit acting like you have half a clue how to debate, phenom.
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Everyone forgot about that. Why bring it up? Take it to PM. We don't need that shit here.
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Quit acting like you have half a clue how to debate, phenom.
Debate? HA, It's called RAPE!
~Miracles~~
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Only by first appearance they appear to be different. However from a storytellers perspective you can reduce them to one common denominator. Which would be that they serve as device to hype the obstacles the protagonists face and consequently show how special said protagonists are.
Where are you seeing this? I can say that for people like Krieg and definitely Moria, but so far the only thing special the SH have over the other SN is their exceptional teamwork. I'd say Oda is doing exactly the opposite and showing the SH aren't the only ones in the world with the ability to turn the world on its head and deal with the threats of the WG.
Urouge powers allow him to man-handle a Kuma bot in single combat, a feat it took all the SH to do, a simple strike from Drake sent Kuma slamming into a wall which can be compared to Franky's coup-de vent and the monster trio combination attack, while apoo did something to an Admiral even if it ended in failure. SH went all out vs. one Kuma bot, 4 captains only showed us teases of their abilities while up against the same thing+Kizaru.
In a lesser abstract way it means that the Supernovas if they fail to obstacles like Admirals, Shichibukai, poor coating and possibly a bounty hunter follow the same structural concept as the Shandians who fail to overcome Enel or Galley-La who fail to overcome CP9.
Difference were those were long standing problems like Croc&Arlong, and things changed when the SH came to down to help their new friends. This time around the SH are the ones who started trouble. Whats the point in introducing the SN to have them fall to those threats they themselves recognized and didn't want to get involved with.
SH weren't upset when Luffy punched the Noble, they expected it but its only because the other SN&Rayleigh are around that they have any actual chance of making it off the Island. Seems a horribly contrived way to get them off the island by introducing characters beforehand to keep the pressure off our heroes. Almost as if they knew the plot was on their side, so they did it anyways. In a subtle way its kinda like the SH almost broke the 4th wall.
Didn't NuFiasco say that he believes that ALL the SN's will make it otherwise it would be to pointless to have them introduced that way? Ok, the entire cool design came from my own fingers, but basically I interpret that statement as, "since they are here it would be a waste to see them fail". And if that's the case then I'm disagreeing with it because of what I explained in this post. If that wasn't the argument, well then screw me for my flawed reading comprehension.
I read it as he believes there are so many heavy hitters in the New World, that it makes no sense that the SH would tangle with all of them by themselves, on top of old rivals&villains who may show up in pursuit of the SH.
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my predictions for this arc:
- Luffy will take out Kizaru
**- Kizaru's weakness is darkness or rather the absence of light - Kizaru will totally own Luffy in their first enounter and Luffy will only survive because it gets night and Kizaru is forced to retreat**
I can't see the bolded happening. If anything Kizaru's weakness is light. That's why he wears those dark glasses. -NOT FACT-
- Luffy will take out Kizaru
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I seriously doubt Kizaru's weakness is night. That's like saying a candle is weaker in the dark. More than likely, it's something that most frequencies of light can't pass through, like, for example, lead.
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Being a Logia, Kizaru can generate his own light. Fighting him at night wouldn't handicap him at all. Throw a blanket over him, maybe, but then he'll just laser through it.
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Taking out fodder pirates has no impact. If you want to make an example of something/someone, isn't it better to use someone famous. It's exactly like what Kizaru said to Hawkins about leaving such a bounty head alone.
That's exactly the point. Taking out fodder is insignificant. But taking out some strong guys makes you go "now wait a minute, some serious shit is going on here".
Where are you seeing this? I can say that for people like Krieg and definitely Moria, but so far the only thing special the SH have over the other SN is their exceptional teamwork. I'd say Oda is doing exactly the opposite and showing the SH aren't the only ones in the world with the ability to turn the world on its head and deal with the threats of the WG.
I think it should be clear by now that I'm argumenting from a narrative point of view in this argument. That said I like at the characters as elements and not as personalities (again only in this argument). And on that field what the Strawhats have special over the other SN's is that they are the protagonists. If this requires further explenation then there's no point in continuing discussing that point.
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I can't see the bolded happening. If anything Kizaru's weakness is light. That's why he wears those dark glasses. -NOT FACT-
I think he wears them because that's his style. And it doesn't really make sense for the user of the light logia to be weak too light atleast darkness is the opposite to it
@Fire Fist:
I seriously doubt Kizaru's weakness is night. That's like saying a candle is weaker in the dark. More than likely, it's something that most frequencies of light can't pass through, like, for example, lead.
Remember how the bullet passed through him in 507? If it was his weakness he couldn't do that. Also since light usually can't pass through a human body physical attacks would work against him and that can't be. Several types of radiation can do that, but not light.
My reasoning why I think darkness is Kizaru's weakness is simple. We've seen several times that logia users get stronger if whatever element they control is there in abundance. Crocodile was at his strongest in Alabasta because that was a desert isle, Aokiji is stronger if there's water around which he can freeze than he would be let's say in Alabasta and Enel had Maxim. Sure they can create their element to some extent, but it's a lot easier if there's plenty around for them to work with. For Kizaru that would mean he's at his best when there's a lot of light and get's worse the less light there is. That would be at night. Still I have no idea how Luffy is going to hit him. There isn't really something as convenient against light as water was against crocodile's dryness and rubber against Enel's electric current.
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Kokolores: I disagree with your point.
Aokiji doesn't depend on water to freeze things. When he fought the SH crew, he didn't draw water out of the sea to freeze it then use it as a weapon. He froze his opponents directly.
Enel wasn't strong because he had the Maxim. He creates lightning in places that lack lightning. What the Maxim did was allow Enel to use Raigou.
Ace was really powerful, and there was no fire around when he fights.
Blackbeard creates darkness despite that he was fighting under broad daylight.
The reason Crocodile was fought in the desert was because thematically it was beneficial. Crocodile was not only a villain but represented the natural hazards of the desert. He made Alabasta a bad place to live because he caused the area to stop raining naturally with the help of dance powder.
Enel was fought in the clouds because he represented the hazards of living in the clouds, as well as an evil diety.
However, your points aren't completely bad. It's still possible that Crocodile uses the natural sand in the desert to increase his power. If he were to fight in a swamp, he would first have to dry out the area and turn the ground to sand. That way he can have a medium to convey his powers.
Enel's powers were greatly amplified in the clouds because the clouds conduct electricity.
If Ace were to fight in an area full of gasoline and explosives, he would definitely be a much stronger opponent for Blackbeard.
If Blackbeard were to fight at night, he could be all powerful.
I won't doubt that Kizaru is more powerful in the day time, but he wouldn't be powerless at night.
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I think he wears them because that's his style. And it doesn't really make sense for the user of the light logia to be weak too light atleast darkness is the opposite to it
Remember how the bullet passed through him in 507? If it was his weakness he couldn't do that. Also since light usually can't pass through a human body physical attacks would work against him and that can't be. Several types of radiation can do that, but not light.
My reasoning why I think darkness is Kizaru's weakness is simple. We've seen several times that logia users get stronger if whatever element they control is there in abundance. Crocodile was at his strongest in Alabasta because that was a desert isle, Aokiji is stronger if there's water around which he can freeze than he would be let's say in Alabasta and Enel had Maxim. Sure they can create their element to some extent, but it's a lot easier if there's plenty around for them to work with. For Kizaru that would mean he's at his best when there's a lot of light and get's worse the less light there is. That would be at night. Still I have no idea how Luffy is going to hit him. There isn't really something as convenient against light as water was against crocodile's dryness and rubber against Enel's electric current.
It seems that Kizaru needs to pass to "normal" state just before he makes an attack against an opponent, he even has some problems before he makes the attack because the light goes faster than his mind.
The only thing that luffy needs to do is an attack that is faster than Kizaru reflexes to win against him. And this isn´t something easy to do
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Debate? HA, It's called RAPE!
~Miracles~~
You nick doesn't actually matter. They all are manifestions to your massive ego anyway.
where that ego comes from, I have no idea.
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**…**because the light goes faster than his mind.
What are you talking about!? He can think at the speed of light!
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It seems that Kizaru needs to pass to "normal" state just before he makes an attack against an opponent, he even has some problems before he makes the attack because the light goes faster than his mind.
The only thing that luffy needs to do is an attack that is faster than Kizaru reflexes to win against him. And this isn´t something easy to do
Yeah, I wondered myself, why we always see his foot before the kick. This sounds reasonable to me. This also explains, why Apoo`s explosion and cut woked on kizaru. He may even feels the hits, so he can be beaten. Of course he knows he regenerates, so he still is very hard to be defeated.
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Kokolores: I disagree with your point.
Aokiji doesn't depend on water to freeze things. When he fought the SH crew, he didn't draw water out of the sea to freeze it then use it as a weapon. He froze his opponents directly.
Enel wasn't strong because he had the Maxim. He creates lightning in places that lack lightning. What the Maxim did was allow Enel to use Raigou.
Ace was really powerful, and there was no fire around when he fights.
Blackbeard creates darkness despite that he was fighting under broad daylight.
The reason Crocodile was fought in the desert was because thematically it was beneficial. Crocodile was not only a villain but represented the natural hazards of the desert. He made Alabasta a bad place to live because he caused the area to stop raining naturally with the help of dance powder.
Enel was fought in the clouds because he represented the hazards of living in the clouds, as well as an evil diety.
However, your points aren't completely bad. It's still possible that Crocodile uses the natural sand in the desert to increase his power. If he were to fight in a swamp, he would first have to dry out the area and turn the ground to sand. That way he can have a medium to convey his powers.
Enel's powers were greatly amplified in the clouds because the clouds conduct electricity.
If Ace were to fight in an area full of gasoline and explosives, he would definitely be a much stronger opponent for Blackbeard.
If Blackbeard were to fight at night, he could be all powerful.
I won't doubt that Kizaru is more powerful in the day time, but he wouldn't be powerless at night.
Actually Aokiji does depend on water. You forget there's water in the air, the earth and naturally everything living.
Ace's power is burning stuff and he can do that as long as there's O2.
As for Blackbeard his darkness isn't the absence of light it's the darkness of a black hole that sucks everything inside. His theme is absorption so of course whether day or night doesn't make a difference to him.
Lastly I don't think that Kizaru is powerless at night, there's still light even in the night afterall, but his strength is greatly reduced i.e. his laser might not work or something like that so that he's weaker than Luffy.
It seems that Kizaru needs to pass to "normal" state just before he makes an attack against an opponent, he even has some problems before he makes the attack because the light goes faster than his mind.
The only thing that luffy needs to do is an attack that is faster than Kizaru reflexes to win against him. And this isn´t something easy to do
Not really. Luffy just being faster than Kizaru won't be enough. As long as Kizaru isn't fully materialized Luffy's attacks will just pass through Kizaru. To defeat a logia you need either a seastone or whatever specific weakness the logia has. Atleast those are the only ways Oda has revealed to us. Guys like Shanks and Whitebeard might know others.
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i was thinking… perhaps blackbeard will betray the shikibukai's rule and defeat the admiral.. its like a setup for darkness to beat light. blackholes vs light would be fun to see
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But if Blackbeard did that then the WG would go against him though.
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Blackbeard won't betray anyone until he's put himself at an immense advantage. That's against both Whitebeard and the WG.
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Actually Aokiji does depend on water. You forget there's water in the air, the earth and naturally everything living.
Fine, yes, he freezes the water in all things.
Ace's power is burning stuff and he can do that as long as there's O2.
Not only that. The things have to be able to burn. For example, you can't burn fluorite, simply because it's a mineral (specifically it's crystallized calcium fluoride, in case if you're a budding chemistry buff)
As for Blackbeard his darkness isn't the absence of light it's the darkness of a black hole that sucks everything inside. His theme is absorption so of course whether day or night doesn't make a difference to him.
For Blackbeard, his element is Darkmatter. It's what holds 90% of the mass of the universe. That's why he's gravity.
Lastly I don't think that Kizaru is powerless at night, there's still light even in the night afterall, but his strength is greatly reduced i.e. his laser might not work or something like that so that he's weaker than Luffy.
I still believe his light is self-produced. He's not bending rays of light when he shoots his laser for example. However, he can collect light to increase his power.
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I still believe his light is self-produced. He's not bending rays of light when he shoots his laser for example. However, he can collect light to increase his power.
It's just the only possible weakness that I so far have come up with. All logia have one and what else are you supposed to do to harm light? Sure Blackbeard can absorb it, but there has to be something else.
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@AD-HD:
You nick doesn't actually matter. They all are manifestions to your massive ego anyway.
where that ego comes from, I have no idea.
BLAH!!! SHUT UP!!!
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You could convert the light into matter, but we can't even do that with RL current technology, let alone the steampunk-ish technology of the One Piece world.
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blackbeard can be hit that is the big disadvantage of his devil fruit
'cause he is not alike other logiasyeah i know there are exception like seastone, water, sand (croc),
rubber ( enel ) - but you don't need such stuff to get some damage on bb -
@vlad:
blackbeard can be hit that is the big disadvantage of his devil fruit
'cause he is not alike other logiasyeah i know there are exception like seastone, water, sand (croc),
rubber ( enel ) - but you don't need such stuff to get some damage on bbThis has been said before, but I'm gonna mention that I believe this is a strength in the long run. I have a feeling that BB is going to be fighting late in this series, and by that time many of the logias weakness' will be discovered.
So, you could say that BB doesn't have weakness that comes with being a logia, the shock of being hit for the first time in a long time. Being capable of being hit still puts him over most of the paramecias and zoans in the world.
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In the dark Kizaru uses moonlight. Because he is secretly a sailor scout. Truth.
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I think at the moment that Kizaru is still stronger than Blackbeard.
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Can't wait to see Garp, gonna be so epic, it'll proberly be his fault for Luffy escaping from Shabondy.
Hoping we get to see Kid and Law next chapter. -
Its just funny all this is happening at the 1st day of 3 how the heck are they meant to last the next 2 days with the marines hot on their tails
well I predict Zoro callasping after the fight with chopper tending to his injuries
before they split up i wouldn't be surprised if we had robin sanji n Zoro debating on how they should split up considering theres an admiral n maybe more kuma's around on the island.Franky n ussop will want to take kuma apart (like how franky did to broken ships) to see what really makes him tick while sanji goes of with them
Zoro of course go on his own as always maybe with robin or nami tagging along
Then Luffy chopper hatchi n camie will go of n have some funafter this been decided then we will get kid n law who have just defeated kuma N i say just cause they will be panting n heavily wounded this will be when kizaru makes his apparence
By the end Axe boy will make his apparence with Zoro's group, luffy will see garp again
but the later i think may happen on day 2 except for the kizaru part
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@vlad:
blackbeard can be hit that is the big disadvantage of his devil fruit
'cause he is not alike other logiasyeah i know there are exception like seastone, water, sand (croc),
rubber ( enel ) - but you don't need such stuff to get some damage on bbit's not about getting damage on BB. most people try to avoid being hit, e.g. all logia's. normally, if you're in a fight, you want to hit and not get hit. BB got the DF he wanted. he's traded the ability to be invulnerable to attacks sans seastone, etc, and for this he has gained the ability to be able to hit any opponent regardless of what DF power this opponents has.
so far, all DF users use their DF solely for their strength regardless of how much they train their abilities. the other important point for BB is that before his DF, Shanks tells us that BB is essentially on his level. this is a monstrous guy before DF powers and now he has the ability to hit anyone.
In the dark Kizaru uses moonlight. Because he is secretly a sailor scout. Truth.
LOLOLOL! This is so win. ^_^
Regarding the 3 days left for the Sunny-go to get finished. I think it'd be way too torturous for the readers to have to wait in suspense wondering if every chapter will result in the demise of the SH crew. My guess is that everything will go down on day 1, and then we'll get a quick time skip. [2 days later], [Thousand Sunny Coating job finished].
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The closest thing to a weakness for Kizaru is hitting him with something highly reflective. That means he can be hit with very shiny weapons. The problem is whenever someone tries to hit him, he dodges at light speed.
As a character though, he's kind of a dumbass. That poses a weakness in itself. But he has at least one smart subordinate: Sentoumaru.
Here's how to hurt Kizaru: hide behind a large mirror. When Kizaru passes by, his narcissistic self is inclined to look at his reflection to comment on how sexy he looks. At that moment, shove that mirror in his face, breaking it. Then try to hide yourself. You can't beat him unless you are a mirror human, so that's basically what you can do.
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Interesting discussion about the Supernovas and if they'll fall or not. I can see the logic in both sides, but my gut tells me that it would be better for the story in the long run if some did fall sooner rather than later … But, then again, that's because I don't think that all who fall early will be out of the picture completely. I can easily imagine Oda combining downed crews and letting them continue on. We saw an example of this early on: when Buggy's and Alvida's crews' joined forces after being defeated. Since then, Buggy and Alvida have been both the subject of chapter-openers and occasional main story cameos. So while they may seem out of the picture, they're certainly not "out of the plot" yet.
Kidd on the other hand I would really hope to see go down now, because he has the highest bounty and it would be cool to see the top tier of the rookies go down by anyone's but Luffy's hand.
I'm of two minds about this: it would be good to see him go down for the reasons you've suggested, but I think it would also be interesting to see Kidd thrive for a while, just so that Luffy has a moment when he's not "Big Fish" and when the person who is – for a while at least -- is an ally, so it would be awkward for Luffy to just immediately thump him.
I was actually intregued in Hawkins ever since his faith in magic got introduced simply because I wanted to know if it's some cheap tricks or something worth relying on.
Yes, it seems as though he strongly believes it, and that it guides every aspect of his life. So even though he seems very strong, to defeat this guy, it might just be a matter of brains instead of brawn. For example, one of the cleverer members of the Straw Hat crew may come up with a way to jam his divination dependency. It could be something as simple as stealing his tarot cards …
Either way, Bonney's DF ability is what I call a "Gimmick" ability.
What I'm hoping we'll see is a post-Gear chibi-Luffy confronting a "little girl" chibi-Bonney. The idea of these two fearsome captains duking it out in half-pint form is just too funny to pass up.
It's funny, I can't convince myself one way or the other about if it will or will not happen. Damn you Oda ^_^
Glad to know I'm not the only one. Nearly every prediction I've made about this arc so far has been a "it could go this way … but it could go that way ..." . The events of this arc are turning out to be such wild-cards. It's almost impossible to second-guess. (The only thing I've been able to second-guess without waffling is that Zoro's injuries would last through this arc and possibly beyond).
Drake seems to be a truckload of info waiting to be turned over in front of the SHs.
Great way to put it! :)
But even if he gets captured by the WG before the SH grill him, I think there are opportunities for us – the readers -- to find out lots more about the WG from him. That's why I want him to stay in the picture longer -- so that we can "overhear" more of his thoughts and theories.Seems the reverse of all the arcs where the SH showed up to end a wrong.
Interesting point. But at the same time, the SH did partially "right a wrong" by their actions – they freed the slaves and (at least for the time being) halted the slave trade there. It's just awkward and unfortunate that they had to drag all the Supernovas into it to do so!
I The Supernovas will be a parallel force that the Strawhats will encounter numerous times in their voyage and will fall as the series goes on. I would not be surprised if one or two made it to the last couple of arcs of the series.
Like a manga version of the Wacky Races – some will fall quickly and some will set traps for each other, and others will cooperate, and some who fell early on will get up and continue the race, and others will stay down ... Also, as the goal gets closer in sight, I expect all existing alliances between crews to be strained. They'll cooperate up until the point where they no longer gain a benefit from cooperating, then they'll sever ties and compete.
well I predict Zoro callasping after the fight with chopper tending to his injuries
Eh, not sure about that. From the looks of it, Zoro doesn't need a general practitioner – he needs a cardiologist ...
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Has anyone gone for the obivous weakness to light - a mirror? If you can reflect the attacks elsewhere this guy is useless.
Edit:
You can also change light by putting it through a crystal and bending the ray to create a rainbow.
Edit:
Also you can block light with a black object since the colour black (not really a colour) absorbs all formed of light.
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Interesting discussion about the Supernovas and if they'll fall or not. I can see the logic in both sides, but my gut tells me that it would be better for the story in the long run if some did fall sooner rather than later … But, then again, that's because I don't think that all who fall early will be out of the picture completely. I can easily imagine Oda combining downed crews and letting them continue on. We saw an example of this early on: when Buggy's and Alvida's crews' joined forces after being defeated. Since then, Buggy and Alvida have been both the subject of chapter-openers and occasional main story cameos. So while they may seem out of the picture, they're certainly not "out of the plot" yet.
It actually looks as if it was Alvida only that teamed up with Buggy instead of her entire crew. In the cover story she was sailing around by herself when she met up with Buggy and when she fought alongside him to help him get his crew back it was just her alone. Going by that I doubt that her old crew is still with her.
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Okay.
I
m sure someone has mentioned this earlier in the thread….but if not I figured I
d mention that I see a theme developing in some of the higher ranked Marines.We`ve known that Aokiji, Kizaru & Akainu are references to Momotaro, but now it seems Sentoumaru is a direct reference to Kintarou http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/folk/kintaro/index.html
And if you recall we also had HQ Chief Advisor Tsuru who now I
m not sure isn
t a reference to Urashima Taro while keeping in Oda`s female bird themes.Anyway, just an idea that a Japanese fairy tale theme is developing amongst them, I guess we`ll see where it goes as more of these characters come out of the woodwork.
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Well, it could be, but then again, when someone asked about Sodomm and Gamorrah, Oda stated he just choose the names because they sounded cool.
The thing that bugs me is that there was an event to tie Akainu, Aokiji, and Sengoku together… where does Kizaru fit in all this? He wasn't at Ohara, and he seems kind of aloof; for example, talking into the black Den-Den Mushi rather than the baby one, and asking random people where someone they've probably never met in their life is. The other three admirals seem a lot more competent than he is.
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As far as the Japanese fairy tales being an inspiration, there is simply no question.
http://www.storycardtheater.com/images/momotaro_s07_lg.jpg
I'm sure Oda didn't pick three random animals that happened to be the same as the three in one of the most famous Japanese fairy tales.
And then I'm sure it's not another coincidence that a character with a very definitive haircut just happens to be carrying around an axe like:
http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/imgdata/large/4061482599.jpg
The question is, how far he intends to carry this pattern and whether or not we'll see it in other high-ranking Marines or officials.
The deal with S&G was, he just chose the names and they didn't have anything to do with the deep symbolic inner-weavings of his comic pulp.
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I know the story of Momotaro… which made me wonder, since Spandam has a Elephant Sword, do you think Sengoku has a Goat Sword?
Also, I think that the three admirals + Sengoku has something to do with Elbaf. Since there's no real Ogres or Demons in One Piece (other than the ones claimed to be in Devil Fruits), Elbaf is probably as close to Onigashima (the island that Momotaro and the animals sail to in the story) we're going to get. Perhaps Sengoku beat down the giants like they suppress the Gyojin, and that's why the giants don't rule the Grand Line.
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But aren't the Fishmen kept supressed by the superior number of humans? At least, that was what I remembered Robin commenting to Nami. Hmm, for everyone in One Piece who's in love with adventure, there must be at least two people in love with something else…
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@Fire Fist:
I know the story of Momotaro… which made me wonder, since Spandam has a Elephant Sword, do you think Sengoku has a Goat Sword?
Also, I think that the three admirals + Sengoku has something to do with Elbaf. Since there's no real Ogres or Demons in One Piece (other than the ones claimed to be in Devil Fruits), Elbaf is probably as close to Onigashima (the island that Momotaro and the animals sail to in the story) we're going to get. Perhaps Sengoku beat down the giants like they suppress the Gyojin, and that's why the giants don't rule the Grand Line.
Based on what I read from Greg's link, couldn't the Gyojin be repersentative of the orges? They're both strong, humanoid monsters. Plus, it seems the Gyojin have been beat own by the humans already.
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Would that mean that Tom was Shutendoji?
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-14879419_ITM[quote=Author: Reider, Noriko T.
]Ostensibly, the "Shuten Doji" story has a relatively simple plot, pinning the forces of good, represented by Raiko, his men and the Emperor, against the forces of evil, Shuten Doji and his demonic minions. Despite this apparent thematic simplicity however, closer investigation reveals that the Shuten Doji legend may contain a significantly complex socio-historical dichotomy. Baba Akiko asserts that oni were often used as a literary device to represent suppressed people and/or those who were not a part of the Fujiwara Regency (from the tenth through eleventh centuries). The Fujiwara Regency reached its peak with Fujiwara Michinaga [TEXT NOT REPRODUCIBLE IN ASCII] (966-1027), and Baba observed that oni reached their zenith during Emperor Ichijo's [TEXT NOT REPRODUCIBLE IN ASCII] reign (980-1011). She considers the legend "Shuten Doji," set during the reign of Emperor Ichijo, as one of the best examples of a story representing those who were pushed to the edges of society (BABA 1988, 140-50). Thus, no full appreciation of the Shuten Doji legend is complete without the consideration of oni as societal outcasts, the disenfranchised, the indigent, and the uninitiated.