The War With Whitebeard

[Ivotas]

@Don:

i for my taste think it is proven cause of the recent events in the manga that it`s not: yonkou=yonkou=yonkou=yonkou=marine+shichibukai

when you think the structure i think of doesnt describe the balance of those 3 powers i cant help it and i also cant prove you now otherwise.. (but just oda hasnt so far given a bit(rly just a bit in my eyes) more complex structure…well)

I think you're thinking too deep into it. It's probably just a stilistic thing in order to have a more catch name. If you try to incorporate the entire information that all the Emperors are enemies on an equal level and all a thorn in the WG's eyes then it wouldn't have the same flair as keeping in short and simple.

But the end was like i said a complete defeat of that what the WB crew hoped to achieve..

! to rescue ace and WB..nope don`t achieved they are dead
so i get your point but in the end stands this result!
and like argued before that is what we have to take..

I still don't think you get what I mean. Fighting on equal grounds does not mean that there can't be winners or losers. It's not something I'm making up myself but is something where you can find a proper of explenation on that in literally every field of sport. When in Basketball for instance a game ends 111:110 then the team with 111 points is clearly the winner. It's not more or less of a winner then a team that won 111:0. Victory is victory. BUT the strenght display is a whole different matter.

Because the teams whose game ended 111:110 were pretty much equal in terms of strenght (meaning strenght in terms of B-ball skills) while the teams that had it 111:0 didn't. But yet, if lost only by one point or by 111 doesn't change the fact that you lost. So by that a victory respectively loss is always a clear thing in the end. But that's not what matters in a discussion that revolves about equality of strenght. What matters here is the performance itself. Get what I mean?

And by that the Whitebeard Pirates and Marine HQ/Warlord combination took it out on equal grounds. Yet the latter scored a clear victory.

[brennen.exe]

@wintergt:

While I agree about the home advantage being big, WB didn't hold back at all.

Oh? Tell that to Marineford. One Ace was killed, he practically destroyed the place in a single attack, then split the island in half with the next. I'll agree that they certainly weren't holding back all that much, but we have seen some ridiculously dominating attacks from all the heavy hitters they have, and had Ace been assisting from the start – remember, he is part of the Emperor's crew -- and not been a prisoner being saved, then they could have wiped Marineford off the map in minutes. Well, theoretically speaking, of course.

@wintergt:

And I think the majority of the pirates are dead. (offscreen, fodder) There have been comments left and right to this effect.

Maybe, maybe not. I choose to see this as another Enies Lobby. "Oh noes! They all died! J/K lol they were just hanging on the other side of the cliff." As far as I am concerned, only Ace and (now) Whitebeard are dead.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@Ivotas:

I think you're thinking too deep into it. It's probably just a stilistic thing in order to have a more catch name. If you try to incorporate the entire information that all the Emperors are enemies on an equal level and all a thorn in the WG's eyes then it wouldn't have the same flair as keeping in short and simple.

well i said from the beginning that it`s just speculation cause we can never proof it and the yonkous would never cooperate

I still don't think you get what I mean.[…] But that's not what matters in a discussion that revolves about equality of strenght. What matters here is the performance itself. Get what I mean?

i sure got you..but still when i should speak in your basketball-phrase
the first two quarters were even..like 50:50
in the second half of the game just one team(marines+shichi) scored BUT WBs crew had with WB a Michael Jordan in their team.. so in the end he got the applause of the crowd cause he made the most points and stuff but the game was still lost by 110: 70 maybe (dont nail me on the numbers)
so was the WAR! in my eyes…

[Ivotas]

@wintergt:

@Ivotas: ah if your point was about the power balance, yeah it's unclear to me how to interpret that at this point. Oda could have meant it any number of ways and the WB pirates were stronger in this war than expected simply to fit the story. It would just be weird if the whole marineforce and the shichibukai are just enough to match 1 yonkou.

But that's pretty much what just has happened in this war. Whether you find it weird or not.

So if 2 of them team up they can destroy the WG? That doesn't sound right to me.

I don't think that Oda just accidentally named them emperors. It was even said that they rule the New World like such (Fishman Island being one example). For guys of such status they might consider their peers just as much of a bother as the WG. They were even said to be enemies.

On that matter let's not forget that the Gorosei were really concerned about Newgate and Shanks making contact. I don't think that it is a stretch to assume that they were worried about those two joining forces.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

hehe, you overpower the yonkous and i overpower the admirals:happy:

[Ivotas]

@Don:

well i said from the beginning that it`s just speculation cause we can never proof it and the yonkous would never cooperate

What you are talking about is a diplomatic development. What I am talking about is a initial position. Try to forget for one second that the Emperors are actually pirates. In this situation as rulers they definitely have the option to join forces with another empire. But would they really want that? Even if Shanks approached Newgate diplomatically he was clear on saying that he was on an enemy ship. Diplomacy or not this shows how they are related to each other.

i sure got you..but still when i should speak in your basketball-phrase
the first two quarters were even..like 50:50
in the second half of the game just one team(marines+shichi) scored BUT WBs crew had with WB a Michael Jordan in their team.. so in the end he got the applause of the crowd cause he made the most points and stuff but the game was still lost by 110: 70 maybe (dont nail me on the numbers)
so was the WAR! in my eyes…

Nope, that's not quite it. With the B-ball example I just wanted to explain the concept of having equal strenght (skills). And as I said, strenght-wise the Whitebeard Pirates didn't seem neither inferior nor superior to their opponents. It was when those distractions began that those big scores as you would call them were scored. And when the enemy is distracted he isn't using his full strenght/skill to stop his opponents full strenght/skill which means such a situation can't be used as an indicator for strenght/skill differences.

@Don:

hehe, you overpower the yonkous and i overpower the admirals:happy:

I'm just going with what makes most sense with the story. I'm not saying that the Admirals are weaklings but they are joining forces with another one of the three great powers while Whitebeard simply doesn't. After all, this is still nothing more but a shonen manga so the simplest and most straight forward approach is most often the most valid one.

[wintergt]

@brennen.exe:

Oh? Tell that to Marineford. One Ace was killed, he practically destroyed the place in a single attack, then split the island in half with the next.

The split was to allow the pirates to escape, and he had been destroying Marineford from the get-go, Akainu even told him to stop, twice, while Ace was still in chains.

I'll agree that they certainly weren't holding back all that much, but we have seen some ridiculously dominating attacks from all the heavy hitters they have, and had Ace been assisting from the start – remember, he is part of the Emperor's crew -- and not been a prisoner being saved, then they could have wiped Marineford off the map in minutes. Well, theoretically speaking, of course.

Theoretically speaking the admirals should have destroyed all of the pirates, probably even before they managed to set foot on land. Their attacks are just that more devastating from what we have seen, if they were actually used as such.

Maybe, maybe not. I choose to see this as another Enies Lobby. "Oh noes! They all died! J/K lol they were just hanging on the other side of the cliff." As far as I am concerned, only Ace and (now) Whitebeard are dead.

I was thinking something similar, until all the actual deaths started occurring. The ones that survived in EL was the "hero party" but it is a different situation now, a lot more grim and an actual war, and it would be retarded if all those 100k marines and pacifista+lava bombardments didn't kill anyone. Also Doflamingo was seen sitting on a pile of corpses. In any case I expect Oda to just "obfuscate" this.

@Ivotas:

But that's pretty much what just has happened in this war. Whether you find it weird or not.

Not exactly. Discounting BB (who's like a third party) there were 4 shichibukai fighting on the side of the marines and 3 on the side of the pirates, and WB didn't just bring his own crew, but 49 NW captains and their crews along aswell, stacking the odds much more in favor of his side (compared to a "marines+7 shichibukai vs 1 yonkou" balance). Plus Luffy's involvement made Garp (the marine's hero) incapable of acting to his potential.

So if the balance is [marines+7 shichi=1 yonkou] then the pirates should have roflstomped the marines in this situation, if the balance is [marines+7 shichi=4 yonkou] then the marines should have still annihilated this force easier than they did, so it would appear to be more in the middle. But if you consider that most of the pirate force didn't do much damage, it was almost exclusively WB that was dishing out destruction, then you could say WB is simply the strongest man in the world which changes things and we are closer the balance of 4 yonkou balancing off the marines. Again I will say I am not sure but of the two options this seems more likely.

I don't think that Oda just accidentally named them emperors. It was even said that they rule the New World like such (Fishman Island being one example). For guys of such status they might consider their peers just as much of a bother as the WG. They were even said to be enemies.

On that matter let's not forget that the Gorosei were really concerned about Newgate and Shanks making contact. I don't think that it is a stretch to assume that they were worried about those two joining forces.

Yes I am aware of this, but besides a hint it doesn't prove much either way. Regardless of your strength you don't want your seggregated enemies to team up.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@Ivotas:

What you are talking about is a diplomatic development. What I am talking about is a initial position. Try to forget for one second that the Emperors are actually pirates. In this situation as rulers they definitely have the option to join forces with another empire. But would they really want that? Even if Shanks approached Newgate diplomatically he was clear on saying that he was on an enemy ship. Diplomacy or not this shows how they are related to each other.

i dont know what you want to prove with that statemant:wassat: they see each others as rivals and even when they had the chance to unite one time to crush there hardest foe(for everyone) they decide against it (well shanks maybe not). cause the rest of the yonkous wasnt involved in that WAR! directly, so they didnt join it. (but why kaidou was against the joining of shanks..well do we have here any infos?) i also see nowadays problems when a nation wants to fight a foe (cause of an attack orso),which also other countrys have.-.but without a particular reason the other nation wouldnt join that WAR! even when they could vanish that big foe…
but for that they also need a reason to join the side of the other foe or else they wouldn`t.

Nope, that's not quite it. With the B-ball example I just wanted to explain the concept of having equal strenght (skills). And as I said, strenght-wise the Whitebeard Pirates didn't seem neither inferior nor superior to their opponents. It was when those distractions began that those big scores as you would call them were scored. And when the enemy is distracted he isn't using his full strenght/skill to stop his opponents full strenght/skill which means such a situation can't be used as an indicator for strenght/skill differences.

when they got destracted by the villain cause of his clever tricks and stuff than thats the problem of the losing team..
being able to distract your opponent is also a skill which should count in my eyes..

I'm just going with what makes most sense with the story. I'm not saying that the Admirals are weaklings but they are joining forces with another one of the three great powers while Whitebeard simply doesn't. After all, this is still nothing more but a shonen manga so the simplest and most straight forward approach is most often the most valid one.

they joined forces cause they can..while WB would have a hard time to do so…so why does this weaken the admirals?
i agree with you that in a manga you dont have to overthink every little detail..but its sure more fun
but when we can say the muost straight forward approach is most of the time the most valid point than you shouldn`t discuss about strenght and stuff , instead you should agree that one side won=other is weaker..simple as that

[Ivotas]

@wintergt:

Not exactly. Discounting BB (who's like a third party) there were 4 shichibukai fighting on the side of the marines and 3 on the side of the pirates, and WB didn't just bring his own crew, but 49 NW captains and their crews along aswell, stacking the odds much more in favor of his side (compared to a "marines+7 shichibukai vs 1 yonkou" balance). Plus Luffy's involvement made Garp (the marine's hero) incapable of acting to his potential.

When I'm talking about Whitebeards and his men I'm refering to the entire pirate fleet. If I would just be talking about the strong bunch then I wouldn't speak of the Marine HQ (which includes 100.000 men) but just about the Admirals and Vice Admirals and some elite fighters like Smoker. So yeah, that was in my argument from the get go.

Furthermore while it is true that not all 7 Warlords were fighting on the side of the government forces the same counts for Whitebeards side that was missing two Commanders (Ace and Thatch). So that pretty much evens the things out here.

So if the balance is [marines+7 shichi=1 yonkou] then the pirates should have roflstomped the marines in this situation,…

As I said they were missing two commanders and as you said yourself Garp didn't display his full potential. So if everything was normal I don't think that the pirates would have roflstomped the Marines in this situation.

Yes I am aware of this, but besides a hint it doesn't prove much either way. Regardless of your strength you don't want your seggregated enemies to team up.

Yes, but it also means that such a team up would be an unpleasant new development thus making it something that's not part of the status quo (which the balance of the Three Powers seems to be).

@Don:

when they got destracted by the villain cause of his clever tricks and stuff than thats the problem of the losing team..
being able to distract your opponent is also a skill which should count in my eyes..

The thing is though that Marco's and Joz' distractions wasn't anything that was part of any plan. It was simply luck. Same counts for Ace. Akainu just used a bit of trashtalk. He himself was surprised by Ace's reaction. So neither of them deserves any credit here since they didn't use any clever tricks to begin with.

they joined forces cause they can..while WB would have a hard time to do so…so why does this weaken the admirals?
i agree with you that in a manga you dont have to overthink every little detail..but its sure more fun
but when we can say the muost straight forward approach is most of the time the most valid point than you shouldn`t discuss about strenght and stuff , instead you should agree that one side won=other is weaker..simple as that

Erm, are you trolling me now or why are you completely ignoring literally everything we've discussed in this talkback? :unsure:

[Ivotas]

This post is deleted!

[brennen.exe]

@wintergt:

The split was to allow the pirates to escape, and he had been destroying Marineford from the get-go, Akainu even told him to stop, twice, while Ace was still in chains.

You are missing the point. The concept is what I am referring to, the concept that if they went completely all out and wrecked the place before they saved Ace, then Ace could die. That's a handicap. Whether or not it seemed like a handicap is up to you and, really, Oda's depiction of the war.

@wintergt:

Theoretically speaking the admirals should have destroyed all of the pirates, probably even before they managed to set foot on land. Their attacks are just that more devastating from what we have seen, if they were actually used as such.

Yes, well, like I said, the Marines had a hostage, leverage, home ground advantage, and were controlling the clock. Being fiction and all, with them having broken powers as is, I totally agree that the Admirals should be capable of doing what you said. However, the Marines had no reason to hold back, so I just have to assume that Oda depicted them as not holding back. We could go all day with "could have" and "would have", but the only point I am trying to make is that Whitebeard's posse was at a disadvantage because Ace was a hostage. If Ace wasn't a hostage, and instead was a part of the fighting force, I imagine the battle would have been much more balanced, if not in Whitebeard's favor despite the Marines' home field advantage. And not because of manpower or lack thereof, but because they wouldn't have to worry about saving Ace, and could instead focus entirely on ripping the Marines a new one.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@Ivotas:

The thing is though that Marco's and Joz' distractions wasn't anything that was part of any plan. It was simply luck. Same counts for Ace. Akainu just used a bit of trashtalk. He himself was surprised by Ace's reaction. So neither of them deserves any credit here since they didn't use any clever tricks to begin with.

but it happened..there are always some parts which didnt go perfectly planned or even fair…we rly shouldnt argue about luck
to exclude all the luck and stuff would just mean "okay we have just one on one fights and in every fight most of the time it´s just a coinflip.
can be true or not..we don`t know^^

they were fighting with all they had and they knew the situation..when than trashtalk and maybe some luck is only needed to distract them.:getlost:

and sakazukis trick with squardo was good in my eyes..

Erm, are you trolling me now or why are you completely ignoring literally everything we've discussed in this talkback? :unsure:

i trolling you:happy:, how can you even say that:sad:

i was just clarifying that a discussion about a manga could also be like that..cause you brought that up that most of the time in mangas the first valid point is in the end the real one.
BUT like we discuss here for hours it isnt always as obvious as it may seems and thats great, cause so it can be discussed.. we cant both be sure of our point of views on that matter cause we heard arguements against it(which can or cant be proven otherwise) and so its a perfect opportunity to chance a little your own opinion when it`s needed..

[Ivotas]

@Don:

but it happened..there are always some parts which didnt go perfectly planned or even fair…we rly shouldnt argue about luck
to exclude all the luck and stuff would just mean "okay we have just one on one fights and in every fight most of the time it´s just a coinflip.

they were fighting with all they had and they knew the situation..when than trashtalk and maybe some look is only needed to distract them.:getlost:

Whether it worked or not is a different matter. The point is that they don't deserve any credit for planning since these situations weren't based on any scheme.

and sakazukis trick with squardo was good in my eyes..

That on the other hand was indeed a nice trick. But it's not like the cut itself influenced the outcome of any fight (and was just one cut among hundreds in the end). It was a good shock moment for the reader though.

i trolling you:happy:, how can you even say that:sad:

i was just clarifying that a discussion about a manga could also be like that..cause you brought that up that most of the time in mangas the first valid point is in the end the real one.
BUT like we discuss here for hours it isnt always as obvious as it may seems and thats great, cause so it can be discussed.. we cant both be sure of our point of views on that matter cause we heard arguements against it(which can or cant be proven otherwise) and so its a perfect opportunity to chance a little your own opinion when it`s needed..

I see…I think.:happy:

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@Ivotas:

That on the other hand was indeed a nice trick. But it's not like the cut itself influenced the outcome of any fight (and was just one cut among hundreds in the end). It was a good shock moment for the reader though.

and chanced the thoughs of many in this WAR!..just think how many hated sakazuki after that even more..so it was no wonder that ace lost his control..
all psychotricks were used here, hehe:happy:

I see…I think.:happy:

i hope you do

well, i still have to read some pages for biology before i go to bed..
so was a honour to discuss with you, but for this night it`s enough

[wintergt]

@Ivotas:

When I'm talking about Whitebeards and his men I'm refering to the entire pirate fleet. If I would just be talking about the strong bunch then I wouldn't speak of the Marine HQ (which includes 100.000 men) but just about the Admirals and Vice Admirals and some elite fighters like Smoker. So yeah, that was in my argument from the get go.

Ok then we are going on a very different assumption and it'll be hard to find any common ground lol.

Furthermore while it is true that not all 7 Warlords were fighting on the side of the government forces the same counts for Whitebeards side that was missing two Commanders (Ace and Thatch). So that pretty much evens the things out here.

If we take Ivankov to be shichibukai level (a fair assumption seeing how he fought equally with Kuma) then there were basically as much shichibukai working against the marines as for them, completely taking them out of the equation. That far outweighs 2 out of 14 commanders missing.

As I said they were missing two commanders and as you said yourself Garp didn't display his full potential. So if everything was normal I don't think that the pirates would have roflstomped the Marines in this situation.

Hm you think Garp was going to help the pirates?..

@brennen.exe:

You are missing the point. The concept is what I am referring to, the concept that if they went completely all out and wrecked the place before they saved Ace, then Ace could die. That's a handicap. Whether or not it seemed like a handicap is up to you and, really, Oda's depiction of the war.

My point is simply that the concept doesn't seem to apply, even though you logically would think it would. There was never any "calm down guys we don't want to hurt Ace" (and this is Oda who likes to verbally point things out to the readers ala "hey Jozu/Marco you got beaten because you got careless") in fact we saw quite the opposite with tidal waves, earthquakes and icebergs thrown in Ace's general direction.

Yes, well, like I said, the Marines had a hostage, leverage, home ground advantage, and were controlling the clock. Being fiction and all, with them having broken powers as is, I totally agree that the Admirals should be capable of doing what you said. However, the Marines had no reason to hold back, so I just have to assume that Oda depicted them as not holding back. We could go all day with "could have" and "would have", but the only point I am trying to make is that Whitebeard's posse was at a disadvantage because Ace was a hostage. If Ace wasn't a hostage, and instead was a part of the fighting force, I imagine the battle would have been much more balanced, if not in Whitebeard's favor despite the Marines' home field advantage. And not because of manpower or lack thereof, but because they wouldn't have to worry about saving Ace, and could instead focus entirely on ripping the Marines a new one.

I was just trying to point out that your reasoning was too biased in favor of the pirates. If like you said WB+Ace could theoretically wipe out all of the marines in 2 minutes then we have to assume the admirals could theoretically do even worse, and since they apparently couldn't, we can conclude that WB+Ace can't do that either.

[Buuhan1]

Forgive me if someone else already talked about this.

But am I the only one who's royally pissed off how Oda planned Ace's death?
@Luffy:

I finally rescued my brother and he's standing right next to me with this lava motherfucker badmouthing his daddy, but look at that! My bro's vivre card got away from me and is sailing away! I clearly still need this and now's the perfect time to pick it up!

…
...
...

OH SHIT, WHILE PICKING IT UP I LEFT MYSELF WIDE OPEN TO AN ATTACK AND MY BRO BLOCKED IT AND GOT HIS ASS KILLED! NOW THE VIVRE BURNED AWAY!

FUCK!

Really, Oda? You couldn't come up with a better way to surprise kill Ace?

[ChocoCake]

WTF? 2 billion votes?!

[joekido the Second]

@Buuhan1:

Forgive me if someone else already talked about this.

But am I the only one who's royally pissed off how Oda planned Ace's death?

Really, Oda? You couldn't come up with a better way to surprise kill Ace?

What's your idea?

[Buuhan1]

Not having Luffy indirectly kill his brother over a plot device (aka vivre card) that was no longer relevant.

[brennen.exe]

@wintergt:

My point is simply that the concept doesn't seem to apply, even though you logically would think it would. We saw quite the opposite with tidal waves, earthquakes and icebergs thrown in Ace's general direction.

Again, that is because Oda wrote it that way. It's fiction, so he can have characters do dangerous attacks knowing they will be guarded. All I was pointing out was that all of their most dangerous and destructive attacks would be held back (by Oda or something else) because Ace needed to remain alive. The concept is what I am referring to, not necessarily what happened or why. To avoid repeating myself, perhaps this will help explain what I mean…

@wintergt:

I was just trying to point out that your reasoning was too biased in favor of the pirates. If like you said WB+Ace could theoretically wipe out all of the marines in 2 minutes then we have to assume the admirals could theoretically do even worse.

Two games; dodgeball and capture the flag. In one, you simply peg your opponents until they are all out; in the other, you have to not only get through the oppositions defenses, but get their flag and escape without getting caught. The Marines are playing dodgeball, with the pirates playing capture the flag. Everything changes depending on the objectives. I'm simply suggesting that the pirates were held back because they couldn't just run around knocking heads around. They had to not only ensure that their "flag" could be acquired, but that it also remained alive until they reached it, all while on a time limit. Anyway, we both understand eachother, and we agree on the general argument, so we might as well leave it be…

[Ivotas]

@wintergt:

If we take Ivankov to be shichibukai level (a fair assumption seeing how he fought equally with Kuma) then there were basically as much shichibukai working against the marines as for them, completely taking them out of the equation. That far outweighs 2 out of 14 commanders missing.

My point was that just as the government faction the pirates also didn't have their complete fighting force at their disposal. And since the war has been balanced out with an incomplete roster it's fair game to assume that it would have been balanced out with a complete roster too.

Furthermore it was only one Warlord (Jinbei) that worked against the WG the entire time. Crocodile at first fought against the pirates and later switched sides. So his performance in this thing is perhaps the most balanced out one and shouldn't really be used in this argument no matter on which side you are standing on.

Hm you think Garp was going to help the pirates?..

I wonder where you got that one from while it was the exact opposite I was saying.

[DooMinator]

@Buuhan1:

Really, Oda? You couldn't come up with a better way to surprise kill Ace?

A heart-attack? :ninja:

[Waka]

@Buuhan1:

Not having Luffy indirectly kill his brother over a plot device (aka vivre card) that was no longer relevant.

Actually, I was thinking the same thing until I realized that the Vivrecard was still relevant. I mean, it was still useful to Luffy because he could use it to meet up with Ace when they inevitably parted ways again. Also, Ace specifically told Luffy not to lose it when he gave it to him. That kind of makes the whole thing even more tragic, actually.

[Ivotas]

Luffy didn't stand there because of the Vivrecard. He was already shown to be exhausted and not being able to move on a couple of panels before. The Vivrecard just fell down so that we readers see it burn once Ace gets hit.

[Corson D. Burley]

I'd like to point out again that the vivrecard was actually dropped in an earlier chapter:

I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I guess maybe I just felt the need to post the reminder again.

[Ivotas]

And this couldn't be some randomly swirling dust because?

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

dramatical effect…luffy never lost it in his whole adventure but at that point "upppss" it slipped away..
but still buuhan1, i dont see why it is so bad...its still the point that even when luffy wasnt picking up aces vivrecrad he wouldnt be able to get away from sakazuki..being exhausted and also sakazuki is an admiral who isnt slow at all.

[Corson D. Burley]

@Ivotas:

And this couldn't be some randomly swirling dust because?

Well, because I said so, obviously.

And this:

He's not dropping it here, but rather finding it.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

well dropping it before and than finding it in the battlefield out of luck:blink:

[MmmBug]

Maybe Luffy just thinks it's Ace Vivre card and it's really Lola's moms or Rayleigh card that burned up. :'(

[Deicide]

Who else thinks the war is over in next chapter? Now that Whitebeard is dead, I think Oda will cut it out, showing the pirates escaping, some staying to attack blindly, Blackbeard turning on the marines… and then it just ends.

[Corson D. Burley]

I'd say it'll probably be done in the next couple at least.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

iam curious what we will see now of the BB crew..i can imagine that the prisoners still want to have some fun…
but yeah the WAR! should be over by now. don`t think any bigshot will go down in the WAR! anymore.
hope we will soon see what happened to magellan.

[Kaze]

The war with whitebeard is over. /thread

[smurfx]

i think the war is over now. next chapter will be the reaction chapter. there will be some short time skip and then we see the people all around the world reacting. i'm hoping we see a reaction from the other 2 emperors we haven't seen. i think it would be nice if they were finally shown since they should start playing a role in the story now that whitebeard is dead. then again blackbeard spit in the marines faces and they are sure to try to kill him and his crew. so we might have 1 more chapter and see what blackbeard has up his sleeve because if he doesn't have some good plan he is dead meat. no way can his crew take on the rest of the marines. as i've said many times i'm hoping all the level 6 guys and the rest of the prisoners from impel down came as well and are waiting for their chance to attack the marines. that or blackbeard is hiding them in a black hole and will let them out when the marines start their attack.

[Kishido]

I think as well the war is over and enxt time we see Luffy on the ship awaken

[Twisted Vixen]

I'm figuring the war is pretty much over. I'm hoping for no timeskip at least, not yet. I'd like to see the world's reactions including the Yonkou, Luffy when he wakes up, what the WB crew will do now, maybe find out what happened at Impel Down.

[Shichibukai]

@Ivotas:

Even if the governments forces had a slight advantage in this war it was still a fight where both sides stood on equal grounds. Meaning if the other 3 Emperors are on the same level as Whitebeard all 4 Emperors (with their crews together) would be far superior then the Marine HQ and the 7 Warlords combined.

But since the Emperors are enemies to begin with this entire balance thing makes the most sense as follows: "Emperor 1 = Emperor 2 = Emperor 3 = Emperor 4 = Marine HQ + 7 Warlords". So if one Emperor falls the balance would still be kept.

As i said what about the 3 Warlords who no longer are Warlords. That would mean Emperor 1 = Emperor 2 = Emperor 3 > Marine HQ + 4 Warlords. Also really in this war WB had so much help from others and the Marine HQ had no big losses it wasn't really equal. Marco, Ace and Jozu were deafeted quite easily after all while only 1 important marine was deafeted but that after killing Ace, nearly killing Luffy and fataly wounding WB himself.

[MagneticMonkey]

Oh Blackbeard tossed aside his title. The marines will fight him.

He must have a big plan to evade the numerous vice admirals admirals and marine legends.

On the other hand to be honest the logia abilities of the 2 remaining admirals must be enough to take out a bunch of pirates on the other island side. I'm wondering if Oda will show this or just abruptly ends it here.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

an escape won`t be that easy while still kizaru and aokiji are around..
maybe they will go against BB-crew but we will sure see now a chapter hwere everybody is heading.

[LeaD]

@Twisted:

I'm figuring the war is pretty much over. I'm hoping for no timeskip at least, not yet. I'd like to see the world's reactions including the Yonkou, Luffy when he wakes up, what the WB crew will do now, maybe find out what happened at Impel Down.

This will probably be the reason for the time skip, I don't think Luffy is waking up anytime soon, he really really did a number on his body.

[Ivotas]

@Shichibukai:

As i said what about the 3 Warlords who no longer are Warlords. That would mean Emperor 1 = Emperor 2 = Emperor 3 > Marine HQ + 4 Warlords. Also really in this war WB had so much help from others and the Marine HQ had no big losses it wasn't really equal. Marco, Ace and Jozu were deafeted quite easily after all while only 1 important marine was deafeted but that after killing Ace, nearly killing Luffy and fataly wounding WB himself.

All of that has been covered above. To make it short when I say for instance "Emperor 1" then I include his entire fleet in that because the Marine HQ also is a sum of all the HQ Marines and not just the Three Admirals and the dozen Vice Admirals. That said, just as the governments side wasn't complete for lacking a some Warlords, the same applies for the pirates for being short on two commanders. So things are balanced out again.

This is far closer to a balance of the Three Powers then when Whitebeard would join forces with the other three Emperors (including crews).

[MagneticMonkey]

@Don:

an escape won`t be that easy while still kizaru and aokiji are around..
maybe they will go against BB-crew but we will sure see now a chapter hwere everybody is heading.

The marines themselves confirmed that they will never let them go especially now that BB has the powerful death row ID allies.

[mickgreen58]

I think we will have at least 1 more chapter showing the world's reaction to Whitebeard's death.

Blackbeard has to have something up his sleeve. At Marineford, Blackbeard is despised by the NW Pirates and the Marines, making him the most hated participant in the war as of now.

To escape, Blackbeard is going to have to go in the same direction as the NW Pirates. I believe this is where Battleship San Juan Wolf comes into play.

Also, I want to see what happens to Luffy, with regards to going to the New World. Right now, it is only logical that he gets taken to the New World by the Whitebeard Alliance but he is suppose to meet his crew at Saboady Archpelago.

[LeaD]

@mickgreen58:

I think we will have at least 1 more chapter showing the world's reaction to Whitebeard's death.

Blackbeard has to have something up his sleeve. At Marineford, Blackbeard is despised by the NW Pirates and the Marines, making him the most hated participant in the war as of now.

To escape, Blackbeard is going to have to go in the same direction as the NW Pirates. I believe this is where Battleship San Juan Wolf comes into play.

Also, I want to see what happens to Luffy, with regards to going to the New World. Right now, it is only logical that he gets taken to the New World by the Whitebeard Alliance but he is suppose to meet his crew at Saboady Archpelago.

I know how you feel, especially since I don't think he's going to go with the WB crew to the New World. I don't think Oda is going to have Luffy see the New World without the rest of his crew beside him, so I'm wondering where he ends up recovering.

[Twisted Vixen]

@Don:

an escape won`t be that easy while still kizaru and aokiji are around..

If they were smart, they'd all run out of there while the marines are focused on BB's crew.

[KingofSarus]

This thread needs to be laid to rest… just like Ace... and Whitebeard?

[mickgreen58]

@LeaD:

I know how you feel, especially since I don't think he's going to go with the WB crew to the New World. I don't think Oda is going to have Luffy see the New World without the rest of his crew beside him, so I'm wondering where he ends up recovering.

I agree, but something must take place to prevent the NW Pirates from taking Luffy with them and do it in a "humane" way. That is to say, it has to be something that doesn't give the impression that that the NW Pirates are abandoning him in his pitiful state.

Off the top of my head, I could see Iva taking charge of Luffy and taking him back to SA since Iva doesn't have a reason to go to the New World with the Whitebeard Alliance.

What is interesting is that Blackbeard, the Whitebeard Alliance and the Supernovas could all be on Fishman Island at the same time observing the fallout on the island resulting from the death of Whitebeard.

[LeaD]

@mickgreen58:

I agree, but something must take place to prevent the NW Pirates from taking Luffy with them and do it in a "humane" way. That is to say, it has to be something that doesn't give the impression that that the NW Pirates are abandoning him in his pitiful state.

Off the top of my head, I could see Iva taking charge of Luffy and taking him back to SA since Iva doesn't have a reason to go to the New World with the Whitebeard Alliance.

What is interesting is that Blackbeard, the Whitebeard Alliance and the Supernovas could all be on Fishman Island at the same time observing the fallout on the island resulting from the death of Whitebeard.

The humane reason not to bring Luffy with them might be the idea that they will probably be attacked by the other Yonkou, and still be hunted by the Marines even more so since Whitebeard is dead.

I think Jimbei is more likely to take over the duty of looking after Luffy, as Iva probably wants to return to Dragon as soon as possible. I could have seen Boa taking Luffy back with her to Amazon Lilly, but I think at the moment she's on the Marine side of the split island, and I'm guessing she'll have her own troubles from her betrayal.

I don't think Luffy can stay at SA to recover, too close to Marine Headquarters, and after he showed his potential in this war, the WG is probably going to put a lot more effort into capturing him. Rayleigh might be using an entirely different place to coat the ship since they know he's on the island as well now, and will be searching for him too. He didn't want to give his identity away when escaping the auction house.

[mickgreen58]

@LeaD:

The humane reason not to bring Luffy with them might be the idea that they will probably be attacked by the other Yonkou, and still be hunted by the Marines even more so since Whitebeard is dead.

True, but I just don't see the Marines following the WB Alliance to the New World. I think they will start remain at Marineford.

@LeaD:

I think Jimbei is more likely to take over the duty of looking after Luffy, as Iva probably wants to return to Dragon as soon as possible. I could have seen Boa taking Luffy back with her to Amazon Lilly, but I think at the moment she's on the Marine side of the split island, and I'm guessing she'll have her own troubles from her betrayal.

It would be interesting if Boa Hancock took Luffy back to Amazon Lilly and that could serve as a means for him to become more adept at using Haki. Also, with Blackbeard on the loose, Level 6 prisoners free, Impel Down in disgrace and the casualties the Marines suffered, it will be a while before they can mount a full attack on Amazon Lilly to punish Boa Hancock.

@LeaD:

I don't think Luffy can stay at SA to recover, too close to Marine Headquarters, and after he showed his potential in this war, the WG is probably going to put a lot more effort into capturing him. Rayleigh might be using an entirely different place to coat the ship since they know he's on the island as well now, and will be searching for him too. He didn't want to give his identity away when escaping the auction house.

True, but I don't think the Marines are all that surprised that Rayleigh has been on SA.

One thing I cannot wait for is to see how high Luffy's bounty is once the dust settles in this war.