@Robby:
It's a clear showcase of "Oda is one to opt for a plot development just for the sake of bending expectations,"
No one expected them to beat Big Mom in this fashion (except Greg.) He's doing what is INTERESTING more than "powerlevels are important."
I more so meant that in that Oda won't do something just for the shock value. Big Mom being subdued by a cake (or whatever other nonconventional means Oda could've come up with) was necessary because beating her in a fight was just not realistic at this point.
And why is Luffy rising to the level of that first mate? Because the very next arc (barring a quick breather arc before Wano) he's going to have to beat an emporer.
Okay, but he's not at that level yet. He may grow during the fight just as he is now against Katakuri. Or for all we know he may not even each that level until later. The progression could very well be: commander with help (Cracker) -> commander without help (Katakuri) -> emperor with help (Kaido) -> emperor without help (Blackbeard)
Since they were all introduced as a group and consistently grouped together as a balancing power equal to 1/3 of the world's strengths. Yeah, Buggy is terrible, but that just proves the point that Mihawk being in that group doesn't prove he is strong either. Luffy has beaten nearly every one of them, most of them BEFORE the timeskip, why can't Zoro be better than just one of them after two years of training? Just because of his title? Hancock is the strongest Amazon, Jinbe strongest fishman, doesn't stop them from being outclassed.
You can't claim that they're all in a similar strength bracket and then try to waive away Buggy. If anything Buggy proves that what matters to becoming a warlord is influence, not individual strength. Buggy's name is a deterrent to upcoming pirates. Moria essentially got knocked out by Jinbe in a single punch at Marineford so there is obviously a gap in their fighting capabilities, yet he was still a great deterrent because he took down many pirates trying to cross the Florian triangle.
You know how we know Mihawk is not a Buggy? Well outside of seeing his insane attacks, he is a lone man without a giant crew or traps to scare off newcomers, yet he is still deemed a great enough deterrent to be granted the title. That is undoubtedly due to his strength.
I never said Mihawk can't be outclassed. He assuredly is by at least some characters. But you know who he's not outclassed by? Other swordsmen. Because he is the strongest of them all. And who said Zoro can't outclass some warlords? He probably outclasses at least a few, such as Buggy, Crocodile and Moria. But he doesn't outclass Mihawk.
Also, Luffy vs. Dofla is a weird case because there's mitigating circumstances, they'd both been fighting all day and taking wounds from other people before they had one on one fight.. but Gear 4 manhandled Dofla readily until it ran out.
Okay, and?
The series has consistently, every time, made a swordsman second in power to captain, and usually with a lot of difference between them. Yes, this is because of the Luffy/Zoro setup, but it has consistently been the case that Swordsmen are weaker than captains.
So you acknowledge it's for story reasons, i.e. the Luffy/Zoro dynamic. You're not going to try and argue this is a physical property of the One Piece universe, are you? Like some cosmic force ever prevents a swordsman from being stronger?
And Mihawk is not and has never been a captain.
Call it what you want, but he's not someone's second hand man or subordinate.
Wano will take two years for us. It'll be three days tops for the crew, with maybe a week of party afterward.
How long it takes for us is the part that matters. It's about the perception. Luffy will probably become pirate king within a few weeks of the timeskip. Does that mean he could beat admirals and emperors at Sabaody? No, obviously not. Now Mihawk is not necessarily as strong as those guys, but he's probably at least in the broad ballpark and his level is still an end goal.
And during which Zoro is probably going to see a lot of swordsmen and a lot of swords and a lot of sword techniques. But aside from tricks like fire sword, nothing there is going to compare to him having actually trained with THE strongest. By default anyone he meets is going to be weaker than the guy he just spent two years training against. He might refine technique or come to understand a lesson that was given to him already, but the couple of days in the grand scheme isn't going to make a huge difference compared to the two years with Mihawk. It's not going to be an extensive lengthy training period that makes a marked difference between him being the 7th best in the world to being the 3rd best, the way Oda is super hard pushing onto Luffy right now. Zoro only needs to be strong enough to beat swordman that aren't as strong as the guy he's just trained with.
And most likely everyone Luffy's fought so far has been weaker than Rayleigh, yet still he finds ways to get stronger. It's almost as if Oda likes to have his characters grow stronger by battling. And that's still not taking into account new techniques or powerups he may develop, much like Luffy is obviously going to master awakening.
Elbaf is Usopp's final goal made physical form basically. It's probably the last stop before Raftel.
I don't know that that's true. This almost feels to me like saying that Raftel is Luffy's final goal. Usopp will probably finally achieve his dream when he embodies some warrior values or something and fights for the fate of the world. His dream is vague enough that I wouldn't be comfortable pointing to a literal point and saying yes, this is where he achieved it. He will definitely make progress and have character development on Elbaf though. But this is getting kinda tangential now.
No idea where Weevil falls into things, he's a wild card, but considering he was going after WHitebeard's crew and they're joining in Wano, he'll might be a factor there.
Or he could factor into their recruitment storyline, AKA before Wano. Again though, speculation. And again, showing that we don't know for certain how much story time Zoro will have to develop.
Secondary character being raised to second class after training under the very best in the world. Secondary character who has not yet had a challenge post timeskip, (unlike Sanji who has lost a lot of fights) and was sidelined for this entire arc. Zoro's strength is up there and Oda hasn't had him studying or figuring anything out along the way aside from "How do I cut that moutain to get the guy in the middle." He can be the (second) best swordsman and still lose to a fishman underwater or to an admiral or a hax devil fruit and raw strength, or to the guy that is giving Luffy trouble right now but isn't a swordsman. There's LOTS of guys way stronger than Mihawk, just not a lot of sword users.
I don't think the Sanji comparison is fair. His dream isn't focused on strength so it's not as paramount for him to have showings as strong as Zoro's, but regardless how much has he really struggled prior to this arc? Main example I can think of is Vergo and that was just a skirmish cut short. And in the current arc, Sanji is the main focus and one of the early points was how he was supposedly a failure and weak. Obviously Oda had to illustrate that somehow. I'm sure that once we get to Wano and Zoro has more of the spotlight on him he will face similar struggles.
That already happened to him though. With Kuina. That's already his life shaping event. He already lost his fated rival that he never got to beat. And now he carries her sword for her. He's not going to carry Mihawk's sword in his teeth. (though that'd be kind of awesome.)
What happened to Kuina is what fuels his goal. But what will happen to Mihawk is what will add an additional emotional layer to the final fight. How is something that happened in the past going to be a driving force for us hating this villain now? The implications are for the story and readers too, not just Zoro.
Shanks is going to die because that is what it is.
Mihawk and Yasopp don't need to also be slaughtered just to push the tragedy revenge thing. They might get killed, its certainly in the cards, beat up for sure, but its not a set in stone thing like Shanks is. the trick there is, is it actually that much more dramatic and moving if you're doing the exact same motivation for three different lead characters simultaneously all at once crying out for their lost father figure they never got to beat in a real fight? All three of them? (All the while the other 8 strawhats don't get any such push?)
Are you asking me if having three mentors die is more dramatic than one? Because yes. My answer is yes. But regardless I didn't say Mihawk needed to die, I specifically worded it killed/beaten.
And that aside, OP isn't really a series about revenge. Sure there's regular cases of "That guy beat up my friends, I'm going to go punch him out now" but there's very rarely been "revenge for revenge and honor's sake." In fact, the most explicit example of that, Ace, only led to getting him killed because he couldn't let revenge go. They're pirates, they live dangerous lives, they're okay with their capable others risking their all for what they believe in, it's the only way to live as a pirate. It's been a consistent theme.
But revenge never carries that far. Luffy forgives Buggy, and Hachi, and Mr. 3, and Robin, and even Crocodile.
If it was about revenge Luffy would be swearing up and down "Some day I'm going to get that Aikanu for killing Ace, grr…" but that's not been a forefront declaration. His chest aches when he's brought up, but no sacred oaths of vengeance have been wrought. Luffy hates the world nobles, but he's not made it a point and goal to hunt them down and punish them for what they did to Sabo and then Hachi. Monet is "dead", but her sister Sugar never brought it up or seemed to hold any grudge against the strawhats over her "death" in spite of it being just the day before.
Shanks falling will add drama, and anger and pathos to the big showdown, but its going to be the whole world at stake. It being JUST revenge at that point makes it petty, and smaller. Luffy stopped Enel because Enel needed stopping... but he rang the bell for the sake of that chestnut guy, not because he was mad at Enel for "killing" Pagaya.
Payback will be an element, but revenge won't be the driving factor of the finale. that's just not One Piece's way. If you want it to be a revenge tale you need to make that a motivation way earlier than the final act.
You make it sound like I suggested revenge be the primary motive. It would obviously just be an additional facet. The main driver would be achieving their dreams and fighting for their ideals. But as you say, payback has always been at least a part of Luffy's reasons since forever. A villain pisses him off/hurts his friends and then he whoops their ass. Also the revenge is not just for Zoro, it's for the readers too for having the promised Mihawk finale stolen from them. How better to get your readers invested.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
To be honest, thinking more generally about it, I can't even understand how a scenario where Zoro beats Mihawk during the timeskip would even be remotely satisfying. How would that reveal even work without being a crushing disappointment? Like this guy who we've all been looking forward to as an end goal for like two decades now suddenly gets the rug pulled out from under him, not in an epic fight and clash of ideals that marks a huge development in the plot but instead unceremoniously as a throwaway one liner from Zoro. Oh yeah apparently this dude isn't that strong after all, Zoro beat him already and here's a new bad guy for you. That would be like on the magnitude of "Who said the espada go from 1 to 10" or something. At that point what would showing the fight in flashback even accomplish other than fanservice. It would be useless and boring without the stakes. And if you're going to shoehorn it in as a flashback somewhere then it's barely any better than the suggestions that Zoro wander off during the final battle to do his own thing. And this still all hinges on "Well maybe these people who are all still referring to Mihawk by his title are just misinformed!"
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