Thanks for the raw, and what a great chapter it was. It's been said before, but this really was close to a traditional samurai fight. I have a feeling that Ryuma's attacks really would have critically hurt even Zoro if they hit–I mean look what happened to that tower.
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Chapter 467 "Pirate Zoro vs Samurai Ryuma" Discussion
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What Carter said was quite true, we haven't seen Zoro take on a true swordsman since Mihawk.
And what about Tashigi?
Oh! Yeah, Sorry! She ain't an ordinary swordsman, but a Kuina-like looking swordswoman!
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"True swordsman" is a very opinionated term.
But anyway, the fight was okay. It didn't seem any more or less of a typical Zoro fight.
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Yeah, just because Kaku and Ohm and the others used gimmicks doesn't make them like, non-swordsmen or something. I was mostly talking about how this is the first traditional swordsman he's fought in a long time.
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Great fight, I didn't expect it to be a flashback of the end-result of the last chapter. Nice, fast-paced action with a very nice ending. Kudos to Greg for calling it.
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Awesome fight, I didn't expect the flashback even though in hindsight it was obvious.
My only regret is that this was almost similar to Luffy's fight with Bellamy, Zoro got a new sword, but he didn't learn anything new. I like how the Samurai is shown to be honorable at the end of the fight and keeps standing despite defeat so that he can give Zoro his sword.
We learn that the sword Meitou (Kuina's) was once owned by a legendary samurai (Zoro's Sensei?). I really think there's a lot more to that sensei than we've been let on.
Also I believe that Samurai is from the same homeland as Zoro.
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Brooke – Ho-ho . . . right at the same time . . . !!!
The man also attacks then . . . !!
== Check this. The reading is "ano hito no zangeki mo tobu" I am not actually sure what tobu means here. Kanji is "to fly", I got that, but how should I phrase it? - -“I would translate that line as, "that man's attacks fly too!" Brooke was amazed at how Ryuuma's attack projected past his blade and hit the wall, then saw Zoro's attack do the same. Probably a little obvious but thought I'd input.
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Wow, now there's a function as a plot-device for Brook that I could not think before… He is the one who can understand Zoro's attacks and tell us (the readers) what he is doing. =]
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I forgot all about "Wano" country. What did Zoro's end line mean exactly?
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
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Wow… I've never been more glad to have avoided the spoiler thread. Kudos tho greg et al for calling the "zoro actually won" twist. That through me for a loop big time. Also, much thanks to kudou for the trans.
This was great. They really were evenly matched when considering their strength and spirit. Zoro, however, had a slightly more varied repertoire of attacks and Ryuma is vulnerable to fire.
The best part though, is one quote that has given me great hope for the future of One Piece. From Kudou's trans:
Brooks: …perhaps those two...as swordsmen...have the same type of strength.
Franky: What happens if their strengths are the same?
Brooks: It means they both posses the "Destructive Power" type...
Brooks: The match would not last long.I've been hoping for this for a long time. Could this mean that we are finally going to get an explanation for the only non-devil fruit superpower in the one piece world?
These "swordsmen types of strength" could give us the logical rationale that allows for mihawk to "cut elements" and damage logia fighters as Oda said years ago. This could even explain how the sky got cut in the shanks/whitebeard fight and how Mihawk could be the best swordsman but not the strongest man in the world. This has the potential to be the biggest revelation of this arc (or I'm just reading into it too much and getting excited.)
In any case, what other examples of "swordsmen strengths" could there be? We have Destructive, so I suppose Defensive would be an obvious possibility. Finesse (Brooke's?) also has potential for a strength that specializes in well aimed weak strikes at vulnerable points in the body.
Anyone have any other ideas?
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I forgot all about "Wano" country. What did Zoro's end line mean exactly?
I was wondering that myself, as it seems kind of Out of Character to me for Zoro to say "let's pretend this fight never happened."
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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I'm pretty sure it was never stated that Mihawk can cut elements.
And yeah, I forgot to mention but Oda starting the fight by selectively showing us the "end" was awesome. Several movies have done that too, where the ending is the first thing shown, and then the entire movie builds up to it.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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What a good chapter. Despite it was a very quick fight, I enjoyed it. Zoro sounded really enigmatic in his last lines.
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I think maybe it might be because he wasn't really facing "Ryuuma" so much as an animated corpse with someone else's personality.
But that's just my guess so don't quote me on it.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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This was certainly an impressive fight. I'm curious about what Brook said about the "Power of Destruction". From the gist of it, Zoro will probably be facing a lot more "traditional" swordsmen in the New World. And I must say, that excites me.
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Wow… I've never been more glad to have avoided the spoiler thread. Kudos tho greg et al for calling the "zoro actually won" twist. That through me for a loop big time. Also, much thanks to kudou for the trans.
This was great. They really were evenly matched when considering their strength and spirit. Zoro, however, had a slightly more varied repertoire of attacks and Ryuma is vulnerable to fire.
The best part though, is one quote that has given me great hope for the future of One Piece. From Kudou's trans:
I've been hoping for this for a long time. Could this mean that we are finally going to get an explanation for the only non-devil fruit superpower in the one piece world?These "swordsmen types of strength" could give us the logical rationale that allows for mihawk to "cut elements" and damage logia fighters as Oda said years ago. This could even explain how the sky got cut in the shanks/whitebeard fight and how Mihawk could be the best swordsman but not the strongest man in the world. This has the potential to be the biggest revelation of this arc (or I'm just reading into it too much and getting excited.)
In any case, what other examples of "swordsmen strengths" could there be? We have Destructive, so I suppose Defensive would be an obvious possibility. Finesse (Brooke's?) also has potential for a strength that specializes in well aimed weak strikes at vulnerable points in the body.
Anyone have any other ideas?
I think you read much too far into it.
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@Cap'n:
I think maybe it might be because he wasn't really facing "Ryuuma" so much as an animated corpse with someone else's personality.
But that's just my guess so don't quote me on it.
I also think that's what Zoro meant with "Let's pretend this fight never happend".
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I was wondering that myself, as it seems kind of Out of Character to me for Zoro to say "let's pretend this fight never happened."
Here's my take on that, sgamer82 (I posted it in the translation thread, not the regular chapter thread, so that's why I'm providing a link. It's the second part of the post, not the first part)
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Awesome fight, I didn't expect the flashback even though in hindsight it was obvious.
My only regret is that this was almost similar to Luffy's fight with Bellamy, Zoro got a new sword, but he didn't learn anything new. I like how the Samurai is shown to be honorable at the end of the fight and keeps standing despite defeat so that he can give Zoro his sword.
We learn that the sword Meitou (Kuina's) was once owned by a legendary samurai (Zoro's Sensei?). I really think there's a lot more to that sensei than we've been let on.
Also I believe that Samurai is from the same homeland as Zoro.
What? Kuina's sword is Wado Ichimonji. The Meitou he was talking about is the rank of the sword, which is the same rank as Wado. I believe the legendary samurai he was talking about was Ryuuma himself when he was not yet a zombie.
Now to the fight, probably my favorite fight of Zoro so far and definitely my favorite of the Thriller Bark fights. It's compressed, but fast paced too. Also, I didn't think Ryuuma would just give the sword to Zoro. From what we've seen in the past chapters, Ryuuma was an asshole.
And I have to ask, what sword did Zoro use to the Flame Dragon attack thingy? Was it Wado?
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Great chapter. Full of lots of great action (almost read like a Bleach chapter, except much better).
I agree with this statement.
Aside from some Luffy VS Major Villain X bullshit time waste chapters (of which there are few but do exist….mostly against a prick named Lucci) this is probably the first time Oda created an ENTIRE chapter that was like a 'real' battle. 'Real' being relative of course.
He pulled HEAVILY from movies for this one all around and I LOVE it. There's a little bit of everything.
He's probably seen Memento. Plus I'm sure it's no coincidence that last week I was mentioning the bend on perspective being similar to Rashomon give the pov, then he fucking whips out what is IMHO his coolest attack, Rashomon.
Christ on a cross, a double-sword fucking iai folks. A DOUBLE-SWORD IAI!!!!!!!
Okay. Anyway, fantastic constructruction. I love how concise it is and even the reasoning for it being as such. MAN what a fantastic chapter.
Regarding the bandana, I agree it has nothing to do with a power-up, but it clearly is something he only puts on when he gets 'serious'. I believe it was during the Kaku fight that Oda even pointed it out jokingly by having Kaku insult him by saying something to the tune of, "What, does putting that on give you more power?"
No, but you know when the bandana comes out there's someone who'll find themselves up shit's creek before too long.
Regarding Wano Kuni, 'Wano' is the name of the country but in Japanese it could be written and is almost instantly understood as 'Wa no kuni' 'The Country of Harmony/Japanese Essence'.
I hope...oh do I hope....and pray to God above....they find themselves there in the New World.
And yes, he used Ichimonji for the strike.
Regarding Zoro being from Wano Kuni, doubt it. It is VERY possible he has blood there. I wouldn't even count out Ryuma being a relative or some shit some day should Oda choose to go down that path for some odd reason, but his hometown is listed as Shimotsuki.
Which I just realized as November it's 11.....a double numeral.....ie. a 'zorome' like his birthday. Yet another thing to add to his profile before putting it up.
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Ok chapter. As much as I dislike Zoro I must admit it was a pretty awesome fight. Straight to the point, well choreographied, with some memorable scenes (Ryuuma cutting the top of the tower with one blow, reminded me of Montblanc beheading the giant snake).
And Brook and Franky were pretty funny.
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I think the bandana thing was because there really wasn't a moment that Zoro could try to put in on… but I dunno, that's kind of a stretch. He was definitely taking Ryuuma seriously.
And yeah, Rashomon is awesome. Anyone else notice that Zoro's been using a lot of iaidou lately?
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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Here's my take on that, sgamer82 (I posted it in the translation thread, not the regular chapter thread, so that's why I'm providing a link. It's the second part of the post, not the first part)
That makes a lot of sense. Or Ryuuma wasn't himself anyway, or Zoro respects when his opponent moans about its defeat. Just like it was with T-Bone and Kaku. I would like to imagine what he would say when he defeats Tashigi in a possible future fight.
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Since Zoro is the one that rescued Brook's shadow, Brook might end up showing Zoro more respect than the rest of the crew.
Laboon was always be his most important nakama, but we may end up having one of those "I'm forever indebted to you…" kind of things.
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@Cyringohn:
Since Zoro is the one that rescued Brook's shadow, Brook might end up showing Zoro more respect than the rest of the crew.
Laboon was always be his most important nakama, but we may end up having one of those "I'm forever indebted to you…" kind of things.
Ha ha, that'd actually be really cool, depending on how Oda pulls it off.
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I think the bandana thing was because there really wasn't a moment that Zoro could try to put in on… but I dunno, that's kind of a stretch. He was definitely taking Ryuuma seriously.
Yes and no. He took him seriously, but I think Zoro knew from the start he'd win if he went all out, hence his somewhat uncharacteristically cocky attitude from the get-go. This is glaringly clear in the final page where he basically says, 'Look dude, let's just say this never happened because as a zombie with someone elses' shadow, you're literally only half of what you were in life.'
And that was pretty awesome of him to recognize that.
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Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too.
This chapter made me like Zoro a lot more btw.
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Nice fight. Sanji fight and luffy are cool too.
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Without an excessive use of panels, and in only nineteen pages, Oda-sensei has managed to create an exciting, well-balanced swordfight. The scene at the end, with Zoro saying "let's forget this happened" does sort of make up for his cocky bravado at the start(no reference to e1n's fanart intended).
Off topic, I must contradict something said earlier: most duels were not over quickly, with one slip leading to certain death. Historically, two people lost their tempers, and had it out with swords, guns, knives, etc. They were typically not experts, and the duel usually degenerated into two people stabbing each other to death; Very slow and very messy. Then there was the matter of Musashi's duel with Sasaki Kojiro: Musashi arrives late (I'm admiring him more and more.), kills Kojiro with an oar, then promptly jumps back in his boat and leaves. "Whatever works" was the motto of duelling. If one is speaking of contests of skill, then certainly- the first one to make a slip loses. When people are fighting for their lives, it's seldom an easy death for either combatant.
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
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@Cap'n:
And yeah, Rashomon is awesome. Anyone else notice that Zoro's been using a lot of iaidou lately?
Yeah I've noticed that also. I think it's because he realizes that there will be times when he can't use all 3 of his swords. heis working on techniques whenever that time comes, like now and maybe sometime in the future. But he'll always end up being at his strongest with three swords.
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@Cyringohn:
Since Zoro is the one that rescued Brook's shadow, Brook might end up showing Zoro more respect than the rest of the crew.
Laboon was always be his most important nakama, but we may end up having one of those "I'm forever indebted to you…" kind of things.
maybe if it comes to that Brooke will lend his sword to zoro when Zolo fights mihawk but I doubt it in case his sword brakes.
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So far, Sanji has had the only utterly lame fight during this arc.
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Yes and no. He took him seriously, but I think Zoro knew from the start he'd win if he went all out, hence his somewhat uncharacteristically cocky attitude from the get-go. This is glaringly clear in the final page where he basically says, 'Look dude, let's just say this never happened because as a zombie with someone elses' shadow, you're literally only half of what you were in life.'
And that was pretty awesome of him to recognize that.
Maybe, but I always thought Zoro believed he could win all fights. Hell, when he first fought Mihawk he was surprised at how big their difference in strength was.
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@_Meh_:
Without an excessive use of panels, and in only nineteen pages, Oda-sensei has managed to create an exciting, well-balanced swordfight. The scene at the end, with Zoro saying "let's forget this happened" does sort of make up for his cocky bravado at the start(no reference to e1n's fanart intended).
Off topic, I must contradict something said earlier: most duels were not over quickly, with one slip leading to certain death. Historically, two people lost their tempers, and had it out with swords, guns, knives, etc. They were typically not experts, and the duel usually degenerated into two people stabbing each other to death; Very slow and very messy. Then there was the matter of Musashi's duel with Sasaki Kojiro: Musashi arrives late (I'm admiring him more and more.), kills Kojiro with an oar, then promptly jumps back in his boat and leaves. "Whatever works" was the motto of duelling. If one is speaking of contests of skill, then certainly- the first one to make a slip loses. When people are fighting for their lives, it's seldom an easy death for either combatant.
Well, part of that was that Musashi purposefully pissed people off by showing up hours late for duels and looking like ass. And it typically worked. The reason why he killed Kojiro in such a fashion was because Kojiro, in a fit of rage over Musashi's tardiness, threw his sheath to the ground, which was the signifier for a "death match." Then Musashi proceeded to beat him to death with an oar.
Also, the thing about real-life fighting and duels is that they're not as stylized as fiction makes them out to be; they're often kind of clumsy and brutish.
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@Cyringohn:
So far, Sanji has had the only utterly lame fight during this arc.
This man speaks the truth.
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@Cyringohn:
So far, Sanji has had the only utterly lame fight during this arc.
That fight was a let down I hought it was going to be big you know with nami and everything but the ussop fight was better.
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With this fight (and this has probably been true for awhile, since Alabasta) it's pretty clear that Zoro's old "I'm not good with one sword" weakness back in the Kuro arc is gone. Of course that was probably just a lame plot device to let the Nyamo bros. live longer.
@Cyringohn:
So far, Sanji has had the only utterly lame fight during this arc.
I guess…but at the very least having such a one-sided fight makes the rest of this arc more difficult to predict. Remember the "lol all the fights with by one sided" predictions? I think that fight was at least good for the overall arc.
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Zoro seemed invisible in the beggining he was awsome but after Mihawk He has been training harder wich shows he is not inviceble.
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This was a very good chapter. I loved this fight, it just showed two power houses going at it and it was pretty quick. The way Zoro defeated Ryuuma was satisfying and gave a nice, for lack for a better term, rush. As already pointed out, it showed that he is much stronger than before and his last attack was one strike that set Ryuuma ablaze.
He admitted defeat and handed over his sword. With Brooks shadow back and Zoro with a third sword, things are looking even better. This also opens more possibilities with Brooks inclusion pretty much in the bag, we will have two swordsman in the crew.
This will prove to be very interesting. Now, we have to see what's next.
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I hope the next one is "Perverted Franky vs Drunk John" or "Doctor Chopper and Pirate Robin vs Doctor Hogback and Enigmatic Cindry", or even a "Pirate Nami vs Vengeful Lola".
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I just want you people to remember one this:
Pessimists/Complainers = people who fail at life and the worst kind and despised by many.
Optimist/Appreciation = people who are accepted in society and well respected and also the perfect role model.You choose!
And just so you know, this site is already giving a bad reputation to Narutofan and even GameFaqs due to all the complainings and rantings already.
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I guess it'll be Chopper next. I kind of hope the fights start wrapping up, though.
Oh, yeah, there's still John. Honestly I kind of want to see something done with him, and it could happen since Oda bothered to give him an identity as opposed to most of the other general zombies, but right now it might feel kind of thrown in. We'll see how it goes but I kinda doubt it.
I just want you people to remember one this:
Pessimists/Complainers = people who fail at life and the worst kind and despised by many.
Optimist/Appreciation = people who are accepted in society and well respected and also the perfect role model.You choose!
That is a severely stupid outlook on life.
Kind of ironic I guess.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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I just want you people to remember one this:
Pessimists/Complainers = people who fail at life and the worst kind and despised by many.
Optimist/Appreciation = people who are accepted in society and well respected and also the perfect role model.You choose!
And just so you know, this site is already giving a bad reputation to Narutofan and even GameFaqs due to all the complainings and rantings already.
I can't tell if you're serious or not. Can anybody else tell?
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This was an amazing chapter. I am amazed (I'm gonna be using this word a lot) with how Oda has been with the last few chapters, especially cause this is a short arc. Maybe that is why the chapters have been so good, cause they are short and sweet with no dragging out. But I tell ya, Oda has always been brilliant with the series, but if he brings the amazed factor we've had lately in a long and epic arc….I may just have to cream my pants for the first time.
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wait I am confused, the last chapter ended in zoro's defeat, how is it that it didnt end that way..
幸せについて本気出して考えてみた!!
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Hopefully the scanlations are done quick like the last time too. 466 was finished late friday! ;D
EDIT: Nevermind, it is done. LOL.
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It may not have been as exciting for me as the Usopp fight but I really enjoyed this chapter, especially the art. I loved the whole jumping around on the rooftop and yes, Zoro having already won was a fantastic twist.
So…anyone else hoping that Brook will return the favor and retrieve Zoro's shadow for him? I mean, he could probably handle it if Zoro's shadow is being limited by the zombie's body as in Dogpen's case, and I would love to see him get another fight and y'know, win.
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wait I am confused, the last chapter ended in zoro's defeat, how is it that it didnt end that way..
You're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, I see…..
To put it bluntly: Zoro didn't really lose.
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You're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, I see…..
To put it bluntly: Zoro didn't really lose.
yea well ok, but I went back and read the chapter again and the scenes are different… slightly, but different
幸せについて本気出して考えてみた!!
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Something I just realized : if Ryuma's body is burning up, then it will be reduced to ashes soon.
That means Hogback can't reuse his body, and Moria can't revive it, so Ryuma's spirit (and reputation) can finally rest in peace.
Cool!
"Over-thinking,
over-analyzing …"
......-- Tool (from Lateralus)
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