@Kairouseki:
My favorite part of this manga is where they storm the king's fortress and everything happens in just a couple of seconds but everything is explained so much. It sounds weird explaining it but it's just amazing.
Exactly. It's awesome as long as it isn't overused. It feels like some greater power is looking down with interest on the events, or many years later one of the characters is recounting the momentous events in his grizzled age.
Guys, it's just narration, other manga use it all the time in different styles with great effect, Hunter is the only manga that dissects the tiniest little details in the most innocuous of events and it's kinda annoying.
@Thousand:
Guys, it's just narration, other manga use it all the time in different styles with great effect, Hunter is the only manga that dissects the tiniest little details in the most innocuous of events and it's kinda annoying.
Like I was saying, Baki, Son of Ogre goes into just as much detail, but does it basically all the time. A single punch easily comprises an entire chapter.
Like I was saying, Baki, Son of Ogre goes into just as much detail, but does it basically all the time. A single punch easily comprises an entire chapter.
Wow…well that sounds like a manga I won't ever be reading...I mean it could be very good but it just sounds ugh.
But okay how about only shonen?
HXH has the most effective narration out of all the manga I've ever read.
Psh, I prefer Negima's quick double spread mini-maps that catalogs everything that's happened and needs to be done in a clear orderly manner with cute chibis so that we can get back to some action and the story can progress.
IceBorg saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and then he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode how he saw the HxH thread talking about narrating and he started to post in narrator mode….....
Houston, he has a problem.
We broke him .
I've read the arguments and I actually like Togashi's detailed narration for each character in each fight for every single move made. I probably wouldn't have noticed if it wasn't brought up though.
It doesn't bother me at all. Added suspense to the situation imo and yeah Baki pulls that off the same thing pretty good too.
Funny though that Togashi suppose to be lazy then goes off spending his time doing all that narration.
LOL @ mangashare for still having those chaps up. The horror.
I don't really mind the narration myself actually, but sometimes he uses it too much for me.
@Thousand:
It's much easier to draw Kanji than draw pictures that can tell the stories themselves.
But that just means he'll still have to be drawing that exact fight no matter how many breaks he takes for a much longer time.
If he was really lazy wouldn't he take the Kubo approach with no narration or dialogue other than screams, spill ink everywhere and call them hatsu attacks, and have the villain beat up all of the side characters in a couple pages and focus on man-Gon and the King fighting?
@Zik:
But that just means he'll still have to be drawing that exact fight no matter how many breaks he takes for a much longer time.
If he was really lazy wouldn't he take the Kubo approach with no narration or dialogue other than screams, spill ink everywhere and call them hatsu attacks, and have the villain beat up all of the side characters in a couple pages and focus on man-Gon and the King fighting?
Oh, not to say that he still doesn't have some integrity as a mangaka but to claim adding in a bunch of near-pointless narrative makes him Mr. Hard Worker is just silly.
The narration gives this whole arc its identity. That's what make it so epic. Go read the Shoot vs Yupi part, each actions and each decisions of a character could have totally changed the flow of the fight. In this kind of situation, the narration was essential.
Still just as stupid to assume he's being lazy.
That is a logically sound conclusion that is a working possibility. Unlike the (lol) writer's block.
Have you even ever had writer's block?
As sensible as it would be to assume that, we know absolutely jackshit about his health conditions (and perhaps his marital conditions? I can't remember if the divorce was confirmed), so no one's in the right to start making grandiose generalizations how about his ethic and then attack him based off of them.
Greg took care of this for me.
Since when has viewing situations on the surface been a good way to judge the quality of a story. It's like reading a science fiction tale and saying THIS BOOK HAS ALIENS OMG SO RETARDED. So what if it's a fucking octopus and a lobster?
There's a moment when you have to remember you're reading an action/adventure comic book and not War & Peace.
And that moment comes when you think a novels worth of pointless psychoanalysis is totally reasonable in a scenario where an Octopus is trying to capture a Lobster in an elevator.
Though to be fair, this level of hand fed psychoanalysis would be terrible in just about any medium or level of literature.
For a variety of reasons.
But no, this is still an Octopus trapping a Lobster in an elevator, and there is no deep human truth being brought to the surface with the Octopus worrying about every physical possibility the Lobster might do to avoid a trap. So don't pretend I'm missing the point by pointing out that an Octopus is just trying to trap a Lobster in an elevator.
This isn't Animal Farm.
Bringing that up doesn't lessen the credibility as him an author. And I'm glad to see you have this naive idea in your head that just because he decided to do a "fight" scene a bit out of the ordinary and go into detail of it, he's objectively a bad writer.
He picked a method that draws things out painfully and pointlessly. What else does something need to be bad writing.
I'm not going to say that his detail isn't ever tedious, but this is pushing it. In a situation like the breaking in of the palace, their thoughts would be rushing at an extremely fast pace. Concentrating on apparently OCD nitpicking in your eyes is also building the suspense and seriousness of the situation. But I guess since it's heavily detailed that it's trash, right? lol
A picture is worth a thousand words, Togashi apparently forgot this and instead of showing and allowing our perfectly capable minds of reading emotions and thoughts with expressions, body language, and physical action, decided he would explain it to us in gratuitous detail.
I don't have the slightest issue with him focusing on nerves and misgivings. But a skilled mangaka, or one who hasn't apparently forgotten how, would do this is a quarter of the space with pictures.
Y'know, kind of like Togashi managed in all those other chapters, like any given Yorkshin action sequence.
lol. STORY GOES INTO DEPTH ON A SEEMINGLY INNOCUOUS EVENT; IT'S OUTSIDER ART
It's outsider art because the pure volume is just so damned crazy.
Incorporating a psychological aspect to a manga is as bad as Kubo's panels of swirling dust…? What?
ahahahaha, every manga ever has this psychological stuff going on in confrontations. The fact that only seem to be aware of it when it's laid out blueprint director's commentary style is honestly kind of sad.
Let me guess, you think this fight is more psychologically sophisticated then anything in Berserk or Vagabond.
I was actually going to bring up the whole Usopp ordeal. What I like about Usopp is that, as Oda stated, he's so relatable.
What I like about Usopp's action there is that it was motivated by actual human thoughts, and not a magic needle in his forehead.
And it's not just the Killua scene. Novu, Palm, Ikalgo and Meleoreon, to name a few, have all demonstrated realistic human qualities and responses to such a serious situation during this arc alone.
Novu's barely makes sense given that he's apparently an elite hunter, and even the damned Octopus can even withstand Pitou's En without having a mental breakdown.
Palm had a cliche little "YOUR NOT A GUN" return to normal form.
The Octopus is just Usopping around, nothing special at all.
And what exactly has Meleoron done that was so damned psychologically "realistic".
And then, back to the narrow-minded conception that manga has to stick to this cookie-cutter, by the books style: show don't tell.
ahahahahahahaha
And your done.
That's not a manga book style. That's a central tenet to all visual storytelling and it is one for a goddamned reason.
Hand holding narration and monologue is NEVER an improvement then allowing the viewer to figure it out on their own with your images.
Well, since so many people have done it before, we'd better always adhere to it I guess; no room for experimentation.
hahahaha it's not a super innovative twist, it's Writing Mistake 101. Made by amateurs and newbies. Take it from the screenwriter in the room.
You want that shit? Go watch the original Blade Runner release and tell me it's better then the Director's Cut.
I kinda agree with Zephos on this . I don't realy like the narration , it just seems outa place .
And then there's chapter 299 .
@No:
And then there's chapter 299 .
Worst chapter ever in any form of fiction let alone Hunter.
Well…......I read one story that was worse , but it's prety darn close .
And you know it's sad when August Derleth's pastiche writing is better then what you wrote .
Hmm what's this?
Could be better….
AH SO INNOVATIVE, PLUS NOW I UNDERSTAND IT, SO COMPLEX!
@JERK:
I had forgotten about this up til now. Damn you, Zephos.
@JERK:
There's a moment when you have to remember you're reading an action/adventure comic book and not War & Peace.
And that moment comes when you think a novels worth of pointless psychoanalysis is totally reasonable in a scenario where an Octopus is trying to capture a Lobster in an elevator.
Though to be fair, this level of hand fed psychoanalysis would be terrible in just about any medium or level of literature.
For a variety of reasons.But no, this is still an Octopus trapping a Lobster in an elevator, and there is no deep human truth being brought to the surface with the Octopus worrying about every physical possibility the Lobster might do to avoid a trap. So don't pretend I'm missing the point by pointing out that an Octopus is just trying to trap a Lobster in an elevator.
It's above all a fight when those 2 characters are putting their life on the line. To see that they are actually thinking in this situation is really a good thing. They might just be a Lobster and an Octopus, but they gave a survival lesson to every goddamn characters in horror movies.
Let me guess, you think this fight is more psychologically sophisticated then anything in Berserk or Vagabond.
The fight between Musashi and Ishun is filled with inner monologue and an old man that basically is doing the narrator's role.
What I like about Usopp's action there is that it was motivated by actual human thoughts, and not a magic needle in his forehead.
There have been far more character development than that in this arc that totally modified the situation. I like One Piece, that's why I am in this forum, but Usopp's character development didn't change a lot of things since in the end, he still helps the crew as if he was still a member. Novu's, Morau's, Gon's Meruem's, Pouf's, Welfin's… character's development really change the outcome of the battle.
That's not a manga book style. That's a central tenet to all visual storytelling and it is one for a goddamned reason.
Hand holding narration and monologue is NEVER an improvement then allowing the viewer to figure it out on their own with your images.
hahahaha it's not a super innovative twist, it's Writing Mistake 101. Made by amateurs and newbies. Take it from the screenwriter in the room.
That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. There is no such rule, or are you implying that movies like The Shawshank Redemption, Goodfellas, Fight Club, the City of God, Barry Lyndon or Sin City are bad movies because they use inner monologue and narration.
I wish there was a bit more narration and inner monologue for No Country For Old Men.
FTR, I know it's not gonna happen but I wouldn't mind a lil more inner monologue in fights with Luffy or one of the SHs.
@JERK:
There's a moment when you have to remember you're reading an action/adventure comic book and not War & Peace.
And that moment comes when you think a novels worth of pointless psychoanalysis is totally reasonable in a scenario where an Octopus is trying to capture a Lobster in an elevator.
Though to be fair, this level of hand fed psychoanalysis would be terrible in just about any medium or level of literature.
For a variety of reasons.But no, this is still an Octopus trapping a Lobster in an elevator, and there is no deep human truth being brought to the surface with the Octopus worrying about every physical possibility the Lobster might do to avoid a trap. So don't pretend I'm missing the point by pointing out that an Octopus is just trying to trap a Lobster in an elevator.
This isn't Animal Farm.
It doesn't necessarily have to have some SUPER DEEP AND AVANT-GARDE TRUTH for fuck's sake. The psychoanalysis in that situation was eminently for suspense; no matter what you're trying to say with your A PICTURE PAINT A THOUSAND WOOOORDS logic, there's very few ways that he could have successfully made such a seemingly insignificant situation so intense without the heavy narration.
He picked a method that draws things out painfully and pointlessly. What else does something need to be bad writing.
Back to the same naivety that his style of narration and explication is objectively "painful."
Y'know, kind of like Togashi managed in all those other chapters, like any given Yorkshin action sequence.
He's still managing to experiment with the narration and split-of-the-moment thoughts of his characters while moving the story along quite nicely. The pace hasn't truly suffered in any major way with his use of psychoanalysis, and the end of this arc seems to be more lucid than it's ever been.
ahahahaha, every manga ever has this psychological stuff going on in confrontations. The fact that only seem to be aware of it when it's laid out blueprint director's commentary style is honestly kind of sad.
Except he's not just slapping it down in front of us? He manages to tie in the character's thoughts and anxieties just fine. He's not just saying NETERO WAS SURPRISED BY THE KING'S STRENGTH; he's shown that through narration in more creative ways.
That's not a manga book style. That's a central tenet to all visual storytelling and it is one for a goddamned reason.
Hand holding narration and monologue is NEVER an improvement then allowing the viewer to figure it out on their own with your images.
hahahaha it's not a super innovative twist, it's Writing Mistake 101. Made by amateurs and newbies. Take it from the screenwriter in the room.
Where'd you fucking read this? Your high school HOW TO WRITE AN ESSAY textbook? Yes, there can obviously be a load of problems with over narration and excessive detail, but Togashi has never continuously pushed the amount of exposition in this arc. Can a title to a painting not completely change the viewers understanding and interpretation of it? Togashi's hasn't put any excessive drab or exhausting narration in this story. Everything he's said has been a checkpoint for further evidence of a character's growth or a situation's evolution. While he's had his bland patches, his omniscient commentary has never come off as completely pointless and unnecessary in the long run.
It's hardly a mistake in any context, and it's delusional and close-minded to think it is. Writing by some stupid THESE ARE THE MISTAKES IN WRITING NEVER DO THIS list is narrow-minded as fuck. Fearing standard, common and perhaps amateur techniques is incredibly pretentious. Do you think every great writer purposely went out of the way to not make whatever mistakes his English teacher criticized and forewarned? Trying to write like that is just as cookie cutter as making bland and uninteresting sentences. His series is quite obviously popular, so he's evidently doing something that a large crowd finds interesting, but apparently he's making amateur and cringeworthy mistakes. Not saying popularity equals good, but there's no backing for you picking out why his writing is mediocre. Don't act like the baron of good prose when you can't even differentiate between the correct and incorrect usage of "your" or "you're" half the time.
Clearing up any confusion or doubt about the Oda returning home once last year.
Yes, he really meant his house.
There wasn't any special furigana nor was it the term 'uchi' or 'uchi no toko'.
It wasn't even the term 'jikka' which would be understandable if he was perhaps talking about his 'home' in Kumamoto.
The man literally visited his own fucking home (period of time unknown) once last year.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it every other mangaka I can think of.
(again, no offense to any series, strictly talking about authors as individuals)
Does that mean his parent's house or the place his wife and kids usualy reside ?
@No:
Does that mean his parent's house or the place his wife and kids usualy reside ?
His own home, No Maam. Where he would live his 'normal' life with his family.
Honestly, only going home once in a year doesn't sound like a very healthy situation to me.
I'd imagine that he sleeps in his studio.
~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
Ouch .
I mean he realy must hate the place .
Anyways could we make a seperate thread for this you think ? Or move it to a generic "Oda" thread ?
Honestly, only going home once in a year doesn't sound like a very healthy situation to me.
His kids do at least live with him twice a week right?
I heard that somewhere, maybe in this very thread.
Oda' workplace is a large apartment. It's basically a 'home'. If you have scans of Blue or have read some of my interviews with him, you can see pictures of it. It's a nice size and for Tokyo, must cost a fucking fortune (we're talking at LEAST $2,000 per month).
And his family visits hime on weekends.
Now, is that his normal schedule? I dunno. But it sure as hell explains how he juggled the series and SW.
Honestly, only going home once in a year doesn't sound like a very healthy situation to me.
I agree
Clearing up any confusion or doubt about the Oda returning home once last year.
Yes, he really meant his house.
There wasn't any special furigana nor was it the term 'uchi' or 'uchi no toko'.
It wasn't even the term 'jikka' which would be understandable if he was perhaps talking about his 'home' in Kumamoto.
The man literally visited his own fucking home (period of time unknown) once last year.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it every other mangaka I can think of.
(again, no offense to any series, strictly talking about authors as individuals)
Wow at this rate Oda is gonna suffer the Toriyama syndrome, where after one piece's long ass run is over, he'll draw a crap load of one shot volumes and make character art for videogames.
I'd imagine that he sleeps in his studio.
When I was younger. I thought all mangaka's did this.
I realy want to coment on Oda's future after OP but….we need a new thread for that methinks .
@No:
I realy want to coment on Oda's future after OP but….we need a new thread for that methinks .
Go and whine to a mod then, I'm sure that Robby will be HAPPY to read this thread and take out the post related to Oda's personal life.
Or you can just make the thread yourself.
Anyway you know as I'm re-reading HxH and got past the 100 chap mark it's pretty much Togashi's style to be heavily detailed and explain shit. The difference with this recent arc is it'd be stupid to see them thinking out these thoughts pertaining to what's being talked about as far as strategy goes. Togashi's been heavily explaining things like when Gon and Killula were tracking Nobunaga and Machi. He's always been adding inner monologue and for the situation in the current arc it doesn't suit it as much so he uses narration. It's just his style.
I think Greg is just continuing to be an evil mastermind, is all.
First he manipulated this thread into being re-opened, and now he's manipulated it into being about Oda's home life, and now you are all scheming to make me move a metric ton of posts again. Screw that. I'll just retitle the thread, that's easier.
Let the evil scheming continue. Oda's work habits are what they are. (And overnighting at the office is pretty common in comics. Its arequisite when you need to work until you drop and then awake as soon as people make a commotion. I spend the night at work about half the time, and my home is only about 20 minutes away. But then, I don't have a wife and kids.)
Wow at this rate Oda is gonna suffer the Toriyama syndrome, where after one piece's long ass run is over, he'll draw a crap load of one shot volumes and make character art for videogames.
Well that's exactly what he said he wants to do.
I still want a mech and western manga from him, though :cwy: .
As he mentioned in one of his SW interviews (I've done and am still doing so many that I can't remember if it's one I translated or made public yet) he's using One Piece as a catchall for every manga he'd ever want to draw.
Since he's made each island so unique and so very different, each of them are basically his own little 'insert-theme'-Manga. Using his example if he wanted to do a high school comic, all he has to do is make a high school island and voila.
Probably around the time of Blue he didn't think it would continue to be this huge and fully intended to work on other full series, but anything he does afterwards will be, in his own words, similar to what Toriyama does now.
it was on one of your interviews, I read it this week.
Deep inner monologue or pseudo-intellectual, flowery language that tries to be deeper than it really is? Honestly I was generally fine with some of the narration as I said in the Tiers thread, however my appreciation of the narration was mostly dependent upon my opinion on the characters who were giving the inner monologues. When it was Pitou fighting Gon I didn't mind, but when it was the Octopus (who I don't particularly care for) I just had the strong desire for the scene to end sooner.
With this said I would agree with what Zephos is saying conceptually in that you should try to show your readers through the art rather than use heavy amounts of narration just to demonstrate that the Octopus is worried about the worst case scenario out of only two possibilities. But I will agree that it's fine because I really only remember Togashi experimenting with this amount of narration in this one particular arc, and that yeah it's never a bad thing to try something against the set standard (in this case heavy inner monologue) in and of itself, it just boils down to execution.
It's above all a fight when those 2 characters are putting their life on the line. To see that they are actually thinking in this situation is really a good thing. They might just be a Lobster and an Octopus, but they gave a survival lesson to every goddamn characters in horror movies.
As I said the amount of narration in the Octopus vs. Lobster scene was a little unnecessary, how many situations are there in any manga in which two character are both putting their lives on the line?
The fight between Musashi and Ishun is filled with inner monologue and an old man that basically is doing the narrator's role.
That's different in the sense that Vagabond always had introspection revolving around Musashi and that the entire fight revolved around Musashi for the first time actually knowing what it's like to fear an opponent and how that was a valuable lesson of not throwing away his life so easily as well as the whole power of spirit aspect, it was a turning point for Musashi as a fighter that would lead up to him getting stronger and taking on the Yoshioka. Hardly comparable.
That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. There is no such rule, or are you implying that movies like The Shawshank Redemption, Goodfellas, Fight Club, the City of God, Barry Lyndon or Sin City are bad movies because they use inner monologue and narration.
It's different in movies that as a medium are always showing the audience through acting. Additionally had Goodfellas or Shawshank redemption not had Ray Liotta or Morgan Freeman narrating it may not have gone over as well, point is that in movies actor's charisma and ability can sell a lot of things. I'll give you Sin City since it actually has that style in the graphical novel but again, it always had that style like Vagabond and it's been integrated to the fullest in the gritty style whereas this is sort of new to HxH.
Well that's exactly what he said he wants to do.
wow….and here I was just joking, Great so in the future we'll have new long running series by both kubo and kishimoto....well at least there's alot of up n coming authors who hold promise in their work.
It took a Tezuka to make a Toriyama.
It took a Toriyama to make an Oda.
It took an Oda to make a…
I'm still figuring out who could be the next Tezutorioda.
We won't know until he's done.
It took a Tezuka to make a Toriyama.
It took a Toriyama to make an Oda.
It took an Oda to make a…
. . .
Neizuma Eiji?
I'm afraid that by then we'll all be 50 .
And scans are gonna be tracked down with cyberspace cops comming into your home and beating the shit out of you .
