@Kaizou:
Oda used to work under Watsuki before serializing One Piece.
Ya, that's what I'm wondering though. Did a friendship form from that?
@Kaizou:
Oda used to work under Watsuki before serializing One Piece.
Ya, that's what I'm wondering though. Did a friendship form from that?
Boh, I genuinely don't care. I like the manga, what the mangaka does in his private life is irrelevant to me once the story is over (and lets be honest, I was never going to read Hokkaido anyway).
He had sexual vids of little girls, he should go to jail for that. And all indications are that he will. Turns out Japan is fairly lenient with sentencing for these types of crimes, 1 year only, but I guess he'll be on the sex offenders list from now on. I just hope he never acted on his paedophile instincts and no kid was hurt by him irl…
Ya, that's what I'm wondering though. Did a friendship form from that?
Watsuki is either know as the Kenshin guy or Oda's Senpai…And nothing else, apparently.
@Kaizou:
Well, you think they didn't get along.
lol. I don't know. I'm just thinking of how this would affect Oda. I've had coworkers I've formed friendships with, and others I've gotten along with but wouldn't say we're friends. If they're friends, I'm sure Oda is hopefully surprised and disappointed. If they were just past coworkers, it should be shocking but not an emotional impact for Oda.
I think if they didn't get along, he wouldn't put this on his manga.
lol. I don't know. I'm just thinking of how this would affect Oda. I've had coworkers I've formed friendships with, and others I've gotten along with but wouldn't say we're friends. If they're friends, I'm sure Oda is hopefully surprised and disappointed. If they were just past coworkers, it should be shocking but not an emotional impact for Oda.
Well, it isn't going to impact on Oda whatsoever. He maybe shocked to hear about this news, but he can't really do anything about it. Heck, when Shimabu was arrested, I didn't think that didn't impact on Oda as well (and two of them are good friends).
Not really a Kenshin fan so while this sucks I don’t feel any sting of betrayal or anything if that nature.
I might get heat for this, but is anyone actually kind of worried about Miura? Between the recent moeification of Berserk, thatt time he drew a butt shot of Schierke, and that whole one shot he did a few years ago I wouldn’t be surprised if gets in trouble. He’s also a fan of idol master where it became a meme and that he just takes time off Berserk to play Idolmaster.
I think if they didn't get along, he wouldn't put this on his manga.
http://orig15.deviantart.net/049f/f/2008/104/2/9/one_piece_in_rurouni_kenshin__by_queenofmanga.jpg
Ah gotcha. This is some sick shit and I'm surprised he's only getting 1 year. Hopefully no one blames those close to him for not knowing, because it can be a very hard thing to notice. Our high school priest, whom everyone loved and thought was amazing, got caught with child porn and was sentenced to serve hard prison time. Way more than a year.
I might get heat for this, but is anyone actually kind of worried about Miura? Between the recent moeification of Berserk, thatt time he drew a butt shot of Schierke, and that whole one shot he did a few years ago I wouldn’t be surprised if gets in trouble. He’s also a fan of idol master where it became a meme and that he just takes time off Berserk to play Idolmaster.
If you argue that, then pretty much every mangaka who draw ecchi series are in trouble.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Ah gotcha. This is some sick shit and I'm surprised he's only getting 1 year. Hopefully no one blames those close to him for not knowing, because it can be a very hard thing to notice. Our high school priest, whom everyone loved and thought was amazing, got caught with child porn and was sentenced to serve hard prison time. Way more than a year.
Shimabu was sentenced 2 years of prison for child prostitution.
@Kaizou:
If you argue that, then pretty much every mangaka who draw ecchi series are in trouble.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Shimabu was sentenced 2 years of prison for child prostitution.
True. I could do without all that stuff. Outside of the anime community, people assume anime is all huge cartoon tits and ass, and often they're not wrong. It would not take away from the stories to stop oversexualizing the women, or often times, the girls.
Jesus Christ, 2 years? That is absolutely ridiculous.
Boh, I genuinely don't care. I like the manga, what the mangaka does in his private life is irrelevant to me once the story is over (and lets be honest, I was never going to read Hokkaido anyway).
He had sexual vids of little girls, he should go to jail for that. And all indications are that he will. Turns out Japan is fairly lenient with sentencing for these types of crimes, 1 year only, but I guess he'll be on the sex offenders list from now on. I just hope he never acted on his pedophile instincts and no kid was hurt by him irl…
1 year is a lot dude. I mean, it's not just a number–-- and it's 2 year in France, the difference isn't that wide...
It's 5 years in the US I believe, but the US doesn't count for obvious reasons
It's just as well that Rurouni Kenshin was already a part of my "clearance" pile after re-organising my shelves.
Just like when I was glad to have already gotten rid of my Lostprophets CDs before the stuff about the vocalist (Ian Watkins) came to light.
True. I could do without all that stuff. Outside of the anime community, people assume anime is all huge cartoon tits and ass, and often they're not wrong. It would not take away from the stories to stop oversexualizing the women, or often times, the girls.
Well, isn't that pretty much same thing for like movie industry as well? People are just assuming that movie industry is really safe.
@Kaizou:
Well, isn't that pretty much same thing for like movie industry as well? People are just assuming that movie industry is really safe.
The movie industry is very much the same. In fact, I just saw the actor who plays Eleven on Stranger Things, being called sexy on the front cover of a magazine. It's sick. Similar to how Kishimoto had Sasuke's daughter dressed all skimpy for one of his covers, and she's supposed to be what, 11?
Media everywhere has a problem with sexualizing children
Similar to how Kishimoto had Sasuke's daughter dressed all skimpy for one of his covers, and she's supposed to be what, 11?
Kishimoto isn't writing or illustrating the Boruto manga.
Damn. Even Japan isn't immune from the recent wave of sex-fiend-outing.
From what I read old boy was making it pretty easy for himself to get outted.
Not really a Kenshin fan so while this sucks I don’t feel any sting of betrayal or anything if that nature.
I might get heat for this, but is anyone actually kind of worried about Miura? Between the recent moeification of Berserk, thatt time he drew a butt shot of Schierke, and that whole one shot he did a few years ago I wouldn’t be surprised if gets in trouble. He’s also a fan of idol master where it became a meme and that he just takes time off Berserk to play Idolmaster.
If Miura gets busted, maybe they'll let someone else continue it and we can finally get a damn ending.
I'd argue such things just end up strengthening their urges rather than subduing them. They are hardly a treatment for pedophilia.
Crazy though, I just binged RK on Netflix, but will no longer consider myself a fan. Separating the artist from the work is a bullshit way of thinking, especially if by doing so, you are still financially supporting them and their lifestyle
I think it's kinda possible to separate the artist from his work, specially since in this case, the author wasn't putting that type of images in his work. And on the age of the internet you can easily get the series without the author getting a dime.
That being said, I don't think I'll ever be able to see anything Kenshin again without thinking "the guy who made this had child porn on his office".
This whole thing bums me out, first because of the nature of the crime, harming children is absolutely disgusting, then because I watched the anime growing up and really liked it. It even had a very nice dub.
The series currently being published here, in Portugal. I have no idea if any of the media outlets will pick up the news or if it will affect the publication plans.
I'll try to follow that and see if anything happens.
Oh… i think i'll just take Kenshin from my dropped list, and put it into my on-hold one. Let's see what his head can create :3
Thanks for the updates, Kaizou.
Kenshin was the first manga i read.I have a soft spot for it.Watsuki should get what he deserves as punishement, but it won't change my impression about Kenshin.
This is bad!
This is VERY bad!
Now I may have to bleach my eyes everytime I see the anime only little girls shown with their grandfather.
I feel sorry for the people who knew that man.
And I feel sorry for Oda who may or may not know that his friend is a pedobear in disguise.
I doubt Jason DeMarco would put this show back on Toonami after this news hit the fan. (No pun intended.)
A few of my friends loved his work and even had dvds of the anime with them.
Some of them even made a review of this whole series because they loved it so much. (They used to have the manga with them before they sold them off due to money issues and nearly losing their house.)
I'm going to be crying in my corner knowing that a childhood I had just died with me.
This was the same show that accidentally aired the wrong plot during an episode of Hamtaru.
That's how big it is when that TV meme happened!
Rip. Samurai X, You will be missed?
Ah gotcha. This is some sick shit and I'm surprised he's only getting 1 year. Hopefully no one blames those close to him for not knowing, because it can be a very hard thing to notice. Our high school priest, whom everyone loved and thought was amazing, got caught with child porn and was sentenced to serve hard prison time. Way more than a year.
You don't get it do you, that kind of stuff wasn't uncommon in Japan till few years ago, I'm not trying to defend the guy, just saying he might not even be prisoned for the whole year.
Espcially considering how the CD dates back to 2015, and that we don't even know the content of said CD, it could be nudes or full cp, anyways, this will certainly affect the sentence.
On the separating the work from the author subject, it's ok to avoid supporting the product, but pirating it is worse, it is best to avoid his manga altogether. I would like to also say that many wrongdoers know that they're hurting people, and some times they project their perfect selves in their work, so the product's image should not be affected by the author's.
You don't get it do you, that kind of stuff wasn't uncommon in Japan till few years ago, I'm not trying to defend the guy, just saying he might not even be prisoned for the whole year.
Espcially considering how the CD dates back to 2015, and that we don't even know the content of said CD, it could be nudes or full cp, anyways, this will certainly affect the sentence.
In current Japanese law, I believe the person will get either maximum 1 year sentence in prison or 1,000,000 yen of penalty for child pornography. For Watsuki's case, this is his first arrest and his admitting what he did, so he may not going to get serious punishment.
Of course, this still doesn't going to change that it going to take long time for Watsuki to restart his career.
That was certainly not a headline I expected to see when I woke up this morning, but yikes especially at that deposition statement. That seals the deal doesn't it?
I was never a huge fan of Kenshin - it was one of the first non-Dragon Ball manga I read but it was never an all-time favorite or anything, but I can certainly imagine the betrayal the fanbase must be feeling right now. I feel bad for them, and especially the victims. If this was part of a larger investigation I hope for everyone's sakes it doesn't get any more sordid.
As a fan I honestly don't feel betrayed. The story has never had any pedophilic connotations so I can't say that his work has suddenly become evil.
Yeah Its shitty he's a pedophile but I'll always love Kenshin, Sanosuke and the crew.
siiiiiiggghhhh First Charlie Rose, then John Lassetter, now this.
Kenshin was one of my first favorite anime, it'll always have a place in my DVD library. As people have said it doesn't really reflect any of those . . . . perversions, so I could watch it without feeling guilty. However, it will now always have a stain on it because when I see/hear/read anything Watsuki, I'm going to think this.
@CCC:
…And to think I just donated my entire 28-volume English set of RK to the library last week.
I wonder if Oda will comment.
It might not be a bad thing if he does.
@Kaizou:
Well, it isn't going to impact on Oda whatsoever. He maybe shocked to hear about this news, but he can't really do anything about it. Heck, when Shimabu was arrested, I didn't think that didn't impact on Oda as well (and two of them are good friends).
He can't do much, but he can release a statement to support his and Watsuki's fans as a former assistant to Watsuki.
I judge the work for itself. I don't care about what the author does in his personal life or how he is, I just care about the work. This will obviously affect any future of the Kenshin franchise, but it's been very much over for a long time. Hopefully the author gets help and straightens his life out, but it will very hard for him to make a comeback.
He can't do much, but he can release a statement to support his and Watsuki's fans as a former assistant to Watsuki.
I'm not sure. Oda saying something publicly possibly make situation more complex. Rather than saying something about Watsuki's crime, it is better to keep it quiet.
It bothers me to learn that an artist whose work I admired is a pedophile. I don't see how it could not.
The ANN article specifies "numerous DVDs with nude footage of young girls in their early teens… with Watsuki preferring them 'late elementary school to the second year of middle school.'"
Unconscionable. That's children in the 9 to 14 year-old range.
I just hope discovery of this leads to increased awareness of child sex trafficking in Japan, and how pervasive a problem it is.
If it leads to a crackdown, perhaps some good will have come of this.
With everything I dislike about Oda depiction of women in One Piece, if there is one thing he does right is to not stimulate this idea that permeates japanese media that women that look/act/think like children are attractive. The general image of the attractive woman in OP is people like Nami, Robin, Boa, Reiju… woman with a grown up mentality that seem perfectly aware of their sensuality and own it.
Sadly, that's very rare. The anime, manga and game industry are filled with women that are meant to be attractive not despite looking like kids, but exactly because of that. Up to a certain level that's valid to the whole world, but Japan seem to overdo it to absurd levels and that seems to be part of its culture (a nocive part, though, not one that should be mistaken as tradition).
Think about the harem anime or dating simulators, their objective is to make money by making the watchers/players (usually on their 20s at the youngest) fall in love with the girls in the harem - and they are always kids. The generic art style that is commonly used in those is actually "evolving" in a way that nowadays even the female characters in their late teens or even 20s end up looking like children anyway because of how deformed the drawings are.
It doesn't matter if your character is a 300yo dragon if she looks, behaves and thinks like a 10yo girl and then you make her be a potential romantic interest for the player's avatar... it is technically legal, but you are still stimulating the idea that a child appearance is desirable in the romantic/sexual sense.
Think of the couple dinamics in manga and japanese games, with the male character generally acting like a father and petting his wife. Whenever romance and sexual scenes happen, the woman is always moaning in embarrassment, always insecure of her behavior, she always wants sex but is too immature to articulate that in words and needs to be "relutanctly" guided by the man, always blushing with virginal pudor...
Look at those pillows with characters imprinted, ffs, those have characters that always look like kids and they are meant to be used by adult men… to sleep with! And curiously, while having them is usually seen as shameful, it's always just because the owner is using a fictional girl instead of a real life person - the fact the fictional girl drawn to look like a child doesn't get a mention.
Sure you can't subtract the importance of individual responsibility and Watsuki must face punishment for that, but this can't be faced as something simple as that. Condeming pedophilic behavior while stimulating pedophilic desire doesn't make much sense, and I hope Japan wakes to this fact.
Those with lolicon and shoutacon attractions are not attracted to actual children. More often than not, Otaku practice the most vanilla of sexual tendencies in their actual sex lives. It is very important to not fall into the trap of equating one with the other. One is a victim-less crime and the other is not.
@Yuugi's:
Those with lolicon and shoutacon attractions are not attracted to actual children. More often than not, Otaku practice the most vanilla of sexual tendencies in their actual sex lives. It is very important to not fall into the trap of equating one with the other. One is a victim-less crime and the other is not.
I mean, this is a pretty baseless statement… How do you know they're unrelated? Can you show me the study that indicates a lack of such relations? Or are you just making assumptions?
I agree that consuming art-based pornographic material, even of the loli variety, is a victimless crime. Especially when compared to consuming filmed or photographic material, which requires a victim to produce.
But that's not the issue... the question is whether consumption of such material might encourage such tendencies, normalize them, etc. And as it stands, I see no evidence either way. Your post seems moreso a reassurance of your own hopes than an evidence based claim.
@Yuugi's:
Those with lolicon and shoutacon attractions are not attracted to actual children. More often than not, Otaku practice the most vanilla of sexual tendencies in their actual sex lives. It is very important to not fall into the trap of equating one with the other. One is a victim-less crime and the other is not.
And you don't see any correlation between the two that could cause someone with bad impulse control to eventually move on from lolicon art to actual victims? Because constantly feeding your impulses and attractions only makes them stronger. If you can't see any correlation then you're just trying to justify it
I mean, this is a pretty baseless statement… How do you know they're unrelated? Can you show me the study that indicates a lack of such relations? Or are you just making assumptions?
I agree that consuming art-based pornographic material, even of the loli variety, is a victimless crime. Especially when compared to consuming filmed or photographic material, which requires a victim to produce.
But that's not the issue... the question is whether consumption of such material might encourage such tendencies, normalize them, etc. And as it stands, I see no evidence either way. Your post seems moreso a reassurance of your own hopes than an evidence based claim.
I've done some reading on the subject. Blaming lolicon CP or molesters is like blaming violent movies or video games for creating violent people in real life. It's looking for a scape-goat to ignore the real problems, which does a mighty disservice to the issue actually at hand.
I've been trying to avoid mentioning it, because I feel it isn't particularly important, but I do not consider myself a lolicon. Nevertheless, I am quite fond of fictional characters and the possibilities within fictional contexts, so in the interest of full disclosure I am in that regard trying to 'defend' fiction characters.
And you don't see any correlation between the two that could cause someone with bad impulse control to eventually move on from lolicon art to actual victims? Because constantly feeding your impulses and attractions only makes them stronger. If you can't see any correlation then you're just trying to justify it
No, I don't. Do you believe there is a correlation between violence in film and television and someone with bad impulse control moving from video games to real life murder and gun violence? In that case, are you going to ban all violent media?
@Yuugi's:
I've done some reading on the subject. Blaming lolicon CP or molesters is like blaming violent movies or video games for creating violent people in real life. It's looking for a scape-goat to ignore the real problems, which does a mighty disservice to the issue actually at hand.
I've been trying to avoid mentioning it, because I feel it isn't particularly important, but I do not consider myself a lolicon. Nevertheless, I am quite fond of fictional characters and the possibilities within fictional contexts, so in the interest of full disclosure I am in that regard trying to 'defend' fiction characters.
No, I don't. Do you believe there is a correlation between violence in film and television and someone with bad impulse control moving from video games to real life murder and gun violence? In that case, are you going to ban all violent media?
If the video games or movies explicit purpose was to sexualize children, then ya…
You can't just relate violence in games to this. Violent impulses and sexual impulses are in no way the same.
And you don't see any correlation between the two that could cause someone with bad impulse control to eventually move on from lolicon art to actual victims? Because constantly feeding your impulses and attractions only makes them stronger. If you can't see any correlation then you're just trying to justify it
Actually, the countries which ban pornography are usually the ones with the highest rate of sexual crimes.
Having something to ease the urges does more good than harm in most cases.
Lollicon doesn't appeal to me but I do defend its existence so that people with those kinds of feelings can get their fix without ever having anything to do with actual living children.
Actually, the countries which ban pornography are usually the ones with the highest rate of sexual crimes.
Having something to ease the urges does more good than harm in most cases.Lollicon doesn't appeal to me but I do defend its existence so that people with those kinds of feelings can get their fix without ever having anything to do with actual living children.
@Yuugi's:
Those with lolicon and shoutacon attractions are not attracted to actual children. More often than not, Otaku practice the most vanilla of sexual tendencies in their actual sex lives. It is very important to not fall into the trap of equating one with the other. One is a victim-less crime and the other is not.
If they need it to ease the urges, then clearly they are still pedophiles. Not saying they are necessarily predators. I'm not religious or a conservative, but I'm also not going to normalize the attraction to children.
And yes, though some argue against it, countries with legal pornography do tend to have lower sexual crimes. And lolicon art is legal, but it's laughable to say people with those attractions are in no way attracted to children.
If the video games or movies explicit purpose was to sexualize children, then ya…
You can't just relate violence in games to this. Violent impulses and sexual impulses are in no way the same.
So, you're saying that video game/movies which focusing shooting massive people isn't going to impact on people, but video game/movie which focus on sexualize children going to impact on people?
Can you just prove that? Or you're just speculating that?
@Kaizou:
So, you're saying that video game/movies which focusing shooting massive people isn't going to impact on people, but video game/movie which focus on sexualize children going to impact on people?
Can you just prove that? Or you're just speculating that?
Where did I say that? I said violent impulses and sexual impulses aren't the same, so he can't just relate the two without proof of correlations. I'm not the one making baseless claims
@Yuugi's:
I've done some reading on the subject. Blaming lolicon CP or molesters is like blaming violent movies or video games for creating violent people in real life. It's looking for a scape-goat to ignore the real problems, which does a mighty disservice to the issue actually at hand.
I've been trying to avoid mentioning it, because I feel it isn't particularly important, but I do not consider myself a lolicon. Nevertheless, I am quite fond of fictional characters and the possibilities within fictional contexts, so in the interest of full disclosure I am in that regard trying to 'defend' fiction characters.
No, I don't. Do you believe there is a correlation between violence in film and television and someone with bad impulse control moving from video games to real life murder and gun violence? In that case, are you going to ban all violent media?
No offence, but none of your 'reading' is a soundly sourced psychological study. I haven't read any of it, but it's books. Books about anime. And an essay. A literary essay. None of it is academic literature that can be used to confirm a claim.
Unless you can link up some solid academic studies discredeting any link between loli material and actual pedophilia, and whether one feeds into the other (or not), everything you're saying is pure speculation. With videogames and violence there are actual studies, I know that much. Here, I'm not aware of their existance. I'm sure there are studies, somewhere, but since neither of us have read them, neither of us can make any valid claims on the subject.
I'm not saying 'yes they do' or 'no they don't'. I'm saying, 'I don't know, and neither do you, not really, so stop claiming you do'.
Also for anyone wondering, in the UK lolicon art is illegal. I know that's not the case for most countries, but I just thought I'd set the record straight for my country.
Where did I say that? I said violent impulses and sexual impulses aren't the same, so he can't just relate the two without proof of correlations. I'm not the one making baseless claims
What's your point then? You're saying that people who like children has higher possibility to become perpetrator?
@Kaizou:
What's your point then? You're saying that people who like children has higher possibility to become perpetrator?
Not sure where I said that either. Also not sure why you keep making up statements for me.
My point is pedophilia shouldn't be normalized, and saying people attracted to animated children have zero attraction to actual children is unlikely and probably pretty hard to prove since no one is going to readily openly admit to being pedophiles
Oh shit, it's getting philosophical lucky for us that Darth is banned or else it would double the amount of pages by himself.
Lets all agree that Nobuhiro's actions are very atrocious, but the problem itself that lead to it is not the sexualization of ficcional characters but an unhealthy sexual culture that exists in Japan, and in many other countries in other forms but let's not digress.
My point is pedophilia shouldn't be normalized, and saying people attracted to animated children have zero attraction to actual children is unlikely and probably pretty hard to prove since no one is going to readily openly admit to being pedophiles
Okay, now I get the point. And I think it is still very cautious to conclude that people who have attraction to animated children will have attraction on actual children. I mean there are many people in Japan (pretty much otakus) who puts difference animated girl and actual girl is different. So, I don't really see it is necessary that people who like animated children will automatically going to like real-life children. Unless, you're going to argue that otakus who like animated girl (I'm not talking about children) should also going to like real-life girls.
Not sure where I said that either. Also not sure why you keep making up statements for me.
My point is pedophilia shouldn't be normalized, and saying people attracted to animated children have zero attraction to actual children is unlikely and probably pretty hard to prove since no one is going to readily openly admit to being pedophiles
But pedophilia is normal. Various forms of it have been record through out history in various degrees. You can bet it isn't going to disappear
What attracts you isn't something you choose.
So we do need to find a way so that those people can live without them harming any children. If drawings of fictional children helps, then by all means go for it.
@Kaizou:
Okay, now I get the point. And I think it is still very cautious to conclude that people who have attraction to animated children will have attraction on actual children. I mean there are many people in Japan (pretty much otakus) who puts difference animated girl and actual girl is different. So, I don't really see it is necessary that people who like animated children will automatically going to like real-life children. Unless, you're going to argue that otakus who like animated girl (I'm not talking about children) should also going to like real-life girls.
Okay, I shouldn't be stating absolutes.
My line of thinking was this. If a guy is attracted to anime guys, he's also probably attracted to real life guys as well. I can also understand people can draw a line with anime and real life.
Anyways, this isn't a topic I expected my self to be engaged in today lol so I'll go ahead and respectfully withdraw
But pedophilia is normal. Various forms of it have been record through out history in various degrees. You can bet it isn't going to disappear
What attracts you isn't something you choose.So we do need to find a way so that those people can live without them harming any children.
This reminds me of a blog article I saw a while back, related to helping people overcome their urges and thoughts:
[Trigger warning: In the first section, they mildly describe the content of a CP video Adam watched.]
Okay, I shouldn't be stating absolutes.
My line of thinking was this. If a guy is attracted to anime guys, he's also probably attracted to real life guys as well. I can also understand people can draw a line with anime and real life.
Well, there is also cultural differences too. I'm not sure about how it works in your country; but in Japan, most of otakus are put the line between anime and real life (I admit not all, but mostly).
Anyways, this isn't a topic I expected my self to be engaged in today lol so I'll go ahead and respectfully withdraw
Yeah, I'm not sure how this topic is related to Watsuki.