They didn't get it right, they got it average. The adventure games were mediocre, it's just what followed was absolutely terrible.
Dx did not fix camera issues, at least the GC version sure as hell didn't.
They didn't get it right, they got it average. The adventure games were mediocre, it's just what followed was absolutely terrible.
Dx did not fix camera issues, at least the GC version sure as hell didn't.
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were amazing though… the Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle versions mostly fixed the camera issues too.
"Sonic 3D sucks period" is a moronic stance when they already got it right twice. They just need to go back to how it worked then instead of "Reinventing" the series every single time.
Sonci Adventure 1 is a complete mediocrity. It's only value anymore is nostolgia. And if DX fixed the camera issues I'm glad I don't remember the originals.
It was completely subpar. Not sucking is the best you can claim.
Try playing it again.
Adventure 2 was decent, but was the first Sonic game to really pump up the stupidity in cast and plot.
I have a general complaint, the fan base. Seriously, they can't be pleased with anything unless it's a 2D game. It's really, really sad.
Even if its a 2-D game, you can't please 'em.
I still stand that Unleashed IS a decent game, though they need more emphasis on momentum and platforming than OMGSPEED
Not to mention NO WEREHOG.
More like heros? Because I kinda liked heros…
The unleashed day levels were good. To bad the night levels had to ruin the game.
I have a general complaint, the fan base. Seriously, they can't be pleased with anything unless it's a 2D game. It's really, really sad.
No, Sonic Team just fails at pleasing even the lowest of standards.
All those who still like it have no standards. Really.
And being a person in "furry", even I don't like Sonic anymore.
Fuka-chan~'s mad the fans don't see the genius in Sonic Team's game designs.
I enjoyed Sonic Adventure.
Pretty awesome music, a fully realized world, sure there were camera problems but they were a) nowhere NEAR as bad as the problems in the subsequent games, and b) nobody back then was doing 3D well, it was 1998 ffs. I thought it was a pretty decent evolution for the franchise - searching out powerups was fun and I thought the overlapping story line was pretty interesting. It wasn't without flaws but in my opinion it was not mediocre.
SA2 was where it got STUPID.
Neither of the Sonic Adventures were good.
OK. .
If that were the case, Darkstorm, then I'd lose all of my faith in Sega.
EDIT: Oh jesus fuck that was a late reply.
And yeah, when I think about it the only reason I loved Adventure 2 was because of the nostalgia. The plot was sort of stupid, there were a lot of glitches that could have been preventable, and we got introduced to a whore-bat thing and a character that should have stayed dead. I guess that was why I didn't like Adventure that much, I didn't have any nostalgic memories with that game so I saw it truthfully for the mediocre pile of average that it was.
I have a general complaint, the fan base. Seriously, they can't be pleased with anything unless it's a 2D game. It's really, really sad.
Maybe if they tried making a good one?
There's a reason nobody complains about mario 3d games.
by the way, there also haven't been any good sonic 2D games in 15 years.
I have a general complaint, the fan base. Seriously, they can't be pleased with anything unless it's a 2D game. It's really, really sad.
By fanbase don't you mean the delusional sychophantic masses of people so blinded by nostalgia, brand loyalty, and plain bad taste that they continually and gladly shove turds down their throats. While throwing tantrums at the people calling the spades spades?
b) nobody back then was doing 3D well, it was 1998 ffs.
Banjo Kazooie came out even earlier, and guess what.
Maybe if they tried making a good one?
There's a reason nobody complains about mario 3d games.
by the way, there also haven't been any good sonic 2D games in 15 years.
I heard the Sonic Advance games were good.
Of course that's just word of mouth.
I heard the Sonic Advance games were good.
Of course that's just word of mouth.
I see you're skilled at paying attention to discussions.
@JERK:
I see you're skilled at paying attention to discussions.
Flattery is such an effective tool.
Sonic Adventure is one of those games that is above average for it's time, but then when you go back to it years later you realize that it didn't age well.
The mega drive/cd games. The fleetway comic.
Disagree. The Fleetway Comics were just as bad, if not worse than the Archie comics.
I grew up with Sonic on the Genesis as a kid and I'm still a fan now. I enjoy some of the 3D games. I liked the Adventure games, Heroes, and Unleashed. I'm looking forward to Colors too.
But yeah the fanbase is definitely the worst. They overreact about everything. Especially the idiots that take the voice acting so seriously. Voice acting is the least of the problems in Sonic games.
@Mikey:
But yeah the fanbase is definitely the worst. They overreact about everything. Especially the idiots that take the voice acting so seriously. Voice acting is the least of the problems in Sonic games.
It is a problem when you feel like playing the game on mute because some characters sound downright horrible.
Tails's voice seemed to get worse in every game.
But the thing is that they didn't sound terrible. They were passable.
Complaining about voices in Sonic games just seems like a bandwagon thing.
@Mikey:
But the thing is that they didn't sound terrible. They were passable.
Complaining about voices in Sonic games just seems like a bandwagon thing.
Passable my ass.
One game Tails sounded like a sick child the entire way through.
And in the OVA dub he didn't?
Well, whatever. A lot of my friends IRL can't even tell the difference between the switch in the voice cast. While I can definitely tell the difference, in the end most of them are just sound alikes. Each to his or her own, I guess.
But they're just voices in a video game. Who cares? If it bothers you that much, switch the audio language.
I still stand that Unleashed IS a decent game, though they need more emphasis on momentum and platforming than OMGSPEED
My experience with Sonic Unleashed is comparable to buying a new car from a shady dealer with an "Honest Ed" motif.
Ed had told me all about the new Sonic Unleashed model 2008 and how it was a smooth ride, with great handling, not to mention lots of features such as free XM satellite radio, power seating, and ABS. Sure it came with an odd looking "Werehog" grill, but Ed convinced me that it wouldn't bog down this ride at all and keep the same feeling of speed.
Sure enough, I had to take a test ride, and the low low asking price compelled me to trade in a bunch of other stuff to make the purchase.
After my first week of taking it around the block my Unleashed started acting a little weird. First I heard some strange clicking sound in the hubcaps around the first levels, but didn't really give it much attention. By the time I got to Spagonia, a good portion of the story was starting to get jarry and fragmented, the AC would spit droplets of coolant at me and the radio was fading in and out.
Then while I was halfway along the road I got a flat tire, the brake fluid started leaking profusely, the ABS was practically shot and my floor beneath me somehow deteriorated so my feet are shooting out of the bottom being sandpapered along the asphalt while I'm doing my best Fred Flintstone impression along I-97 before crashing through the guard rail and off the overpass for the upteenth time.
The worst part was, the warranty expired and I had already sunk 20 hours of mileage into that lemon, so I felt obligated to keep it and let it expire on its own. I wanted to go back to that dealer, rip his heart out pair corkscrew, and hold it front of him so he can gaze in to the black void that is his soul before he draws his last breath.
So yeah, Sonic Unleased ended up being a disappointment.
I gave Unleashed a chance, as that "one final chance" because people said "Well, the daytime stages are good!" figuring that, worst case scenario, if they really WERE good, I could just rough through the shitty levels and play the daylight ones to my hearts content later. And it was 10 bucks.
Some folks will say that "Sonic Unleashed was good for the daytime stages, and bad for the night stages, so it was half good!" except… that's not accurate.
For one thing, the daytime stages only take a minute or two, and the follow up courses are just a fraction of the initial level. While the average werehog stage takes 6-10 minutes. (Plus the random tutorial stages...) So its a disproportion there. Right off the bat, timewise, you're actually talking 40/60 Day or Night levels, maybe even 30/70, in playtime. (Plus I'm sure there's more nighttime stages, on top of them taking longer.)
Then, there's the menu level select thing. In Sonic 3 and S3&K, you had a save slot (mostly out of courtesy to the chaos emeralds I think) , and if you pressed up or down, you cycle through the 12 stages available. EASY. (And Sonic 1 and 2 were so short... you didn't have save slots. You sat down and played it for an hour and beat it or you didn't.) In Unleashed, you navigate the globe with wierd cursors, might accidentally fly to the wrong location, and then once you get there, not only do you have 20 variation of levels to flik through (day or night, timetrial, "defeat one enemy with a new move") but there's also the village quest and the temple hubworlds. Village quest ammount to nothing except wasting time talking to 12 random people to no end, and the temples are designed horribly. Godawful confusing, pointless waste of time. This adds a completely pointless 10 minutes to just trying to get anywhere, after EVERY level.
AND there's atrocious load times too, so even at the outset, it's like 45% Daytime, 45% nighttime, and 10% world map and hub temple (where the teleporters to other temples aren't even clearly labeled or sensical.) And as already noted, the day/night portion aren't really a 50/50 split...
So really, the daytime portions of the game are only maybe 25% of the actual game.
And even those are basically just race tracks, with very little real gameplay. SOme nice ideas in there, but... not all that great! It was reasonably entertaining stuff, and honeslty, had the ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME BEEN CUT, and it was just those levels, exactly as they were? It would have been a much better game, fun to play. But by no means great.
So yeah. Unleash was a 25% mediocre game, 25% load time navigation game, and 50% ill concieved wannabe Kingdom Hearts crap fest. Terrible terrible game all around.
Its not even half good like people try to convince themselves, so desperate are they for a good Sonic game.
And its also why it was my official last Sonic game till something gets rave reviews all around.
@Mikey:
Disagree. The Fleetway Comics were just as bad, if not worse than the Archie comics.
I grew up with Sonic on the Genesis as a kid and I'm still a fan now. I enjoy some of the 3D games. I liked the Adventure games, Heroes, and Unleashed. I'm looking forward to Colors too.
But yeah the fanbase is definitely the worst. They overreact about everything. Especially the idiots that take the voice acting so seriously. Voice acting is the least of the problems in Sonic games.
The fleetway comic was fun for a kid, whereas the archie comic was dung.
recent 2d game problems = physics + level design
3d games problems are too many to mention.
The fleetway comic was fun for a kid, whereas the archie comic was dung.
recent 2d game problems = physics + level design
3d games problems are too many to mention.
If you mean Rush, the physics aren't a problem. They are different than the classics, but they were made for a different type of game. They work fine for what Rush was doing and they made 2 great games.
Some other things to what has been discussed that I missed:
Rush is a game of memory retention and bad level design with floaty physics.
Not my cup of tea.
SA & SA2 were sega's first steps so I was supportive at the time, but then they just kept going downhill.
I saw what sonic 06 was trying to achieve. Even the buggy mess that it was doesn't let me forget.
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- The Sonic fanbase isn't really that bad. How many of you go to a Sonic forum? I only know of one, but I myself frequent a Sonic forum and it is very civil there. There are occasional complaints about small things like Sonic having green eyes, but then 10 people come and say how stupid that is.
I've been to quite a few. Sonic HQ's forums and TSS' forums are the most civil I've been to. But seriously, if you want to find the majority of idiot Sonic fans, just go to YouTube. They're all over.
Sonic Adventure is one of those games that is above average for it's time, but then when you go back to it years later you realize that it didn't age well.
Again, bullshit. Banjo Kazooie.
Even Mario 64, which I don't think has dated all that well
Sonic Adventure is plain sub-par as hell.
@JERK:
Again, bullshit. Banjo Kazooie.
Even Mario 64, which I don't think has dated all that wellSonic Adventure is plain sub-par as hell.
I like Sonic Adventure a lot more than Mario 64. And about the same as Banjo-Kazooie.
But SA is too different to the other 2 to really compare, in my opinion.
In my opinion the Sonic Adventure series was awful. Sonic Heroes was also awful. Those story book games were just plain bad (though when I first placed that Black Knight one I found it fun because of it's cutscenes, I really like those cutscenes for some reason) Unleashed is awful too.
The best Sonic games of recent times has to be the Sonic Rush and Advance series and they were made by DIMPS not Sonic Team iirc.
As for the new games, Sonic Colors will be decent if you can actually control Sonic, unlike in Unleashed where he even walks too fast.
Sonic Free Riders, that Sonic Riders series is still going on? I watched the preview of the game on GiantBomb.com and if you didn't know, the game is Kinect only and it controls poorly just like the previous games which you played with a controller.
Sonic The Hedgehog 4 is the only one I have hope for, yet they fucked up on the music right off the bat. I'm glad the mine cart stage was scrapped.
All in all, I'm not a Sonic fan. I like Sonic 1, 3 & Knuckles and CD. That's about it.
@JERK:
By fanbase don't you mean the delusional sychophantic masses of people so blinded by nostalgia, brand loyalty, and plain bad taste that they continually and gladly shove turds down their throats. While throwing tantrums at the people calling the spades spades?
Uh…yeah, sure.
I like Sonic Adventure a lot more than Mario 64. And about the same as Banjo-Kazooie.
But SA is too different to the other 2 to really compare, in my opinion.
Do you think BK has dated badly.
I liked the Sonic Adventure games when I first played them but even I admit they're terrible games. They don't hold a candle to Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie, both of which are pretty much masterpieces in the platformer genre as well as excellent games in their own right.
@JERK:
Do you think BK has dated badly.
No, I don't.
I know SA is dated, but, honestly, to me SA isn't really dated. I can see why people think it is and I agree with them sort of, but to me the game is as fun as it was when it came out, the graphics may not be comparable to today's graphics, but I still like them. Maybe it is just nostalgia, but I still love the game.
^It's not necessarily the graphics being the one major thing that hasn't aged well it's the gameplay.
Isn't it funny that the biggest Videogame thread on AP Forums is related to a long dead horrible franchise which is pretty much only liked by delusional mindless fanboy drones who like to pretend their favorite video-game character is still relevant and dress up like a bunch of anthropomorphic shitty characters..
?
@ZeArmyOfHalen:
Isn't it funny that the biggest Videogame thread on AP Forums is related to a long dead horrible franchise which is pretty much only liked by delusional mindless fanboy drones who like to pretend their favorite video-game character is still relevant and dress up like a bunch of anthropomorphic shitty characters..
?
Not that sonic hasn't been dire beyond belief for 15 years…
But why is it that half the time all you ever do in this subforum is whine that people don't like the games that you like.
Not that sonic hasn't been dire beyond belief for 15 years…
But why is it that half the time all you ever do in this subforum is whine that people don't like the games that you like.
I'm weird like that..? Idk, I honestly have no good answer, and I won't disagree, I'm a big complainer.
@ZeArmyOfHalen:
WHY ARE YOU GUYS NOT TALKING ABOUT OVERDONE BLAND-DESIGNED AND SLOW AS FUCK SHOOTER GAMES WITH GENERIC ANGRY-FACE SPACE MARINES BAWWWWW
What I actually read.
by the way, there also haven't been any good sonic 2D games in 15 years.
The Advance and Rush series are critically acclaimed and praised in most videogame forums, so you're pretty much in the minority here…
I can't speak for advance but people tell me they're like the rush games.
Which were terrible with poor level design and floaty physics.
There's a reason Sonic 4 has been delayed, because it was looking like dimps were making Sonic Rush 3. Hopefully sega will actually put some effort in for once.
The Advance and Rush series are critically acclaimed and praised in most videogame forums, so you're pretty much in the minority here…
Video game forums don't fucking count as "critical acclaim".
Anyone who thinks the Advance Games are anything but utterly mediocre is strongly delusional or has, ironically enough, probably never played the original 2D Sonic games and wouldn't know a good platformer if it smacked them in the face.
@JERK:
Video game forums don't fucking count as "critical acclaim".
There were hardly any negative reviews for both series, for that matter.
Anyone who thinks the Advance Games are anything but utterly mediocre is strongly delusional or has, ironically enough, probably never played the original 2D Sonic games and wouldn't know a good platformer if it smacked them in the face.
I only played Sonic Rush. It was completely different than the original games, but still a fun game. Different =/= bad.
@ZeArmyOfHalen:
Isn't it funny that the biggest Videogame thread on AP Forums is related to a long dead horrible franchise which is pretty much only liked by delusional mindless fanboy drones who like to pretend their favorite video-game character is still relevant and dress up like a bunch of anthropomorphic shitty characters..
?
To be fair, it was like 38 smaller seperate threads before I merged them.
Each and every one a demonstration of the Sonic Cycle, with the rising and falling hopes of "Hey, a new game, maybe it'll be good this time!" "These screenshots look good!" "Hrm, the early reviews aren't so positive… but they're just haters!" "Oh hey, its out, it sucks."
Also, why are you randomly complaining? If you don't like a franchise, don't check the thread.
@JERK:
Video game forums don't fucking count as "critical acclaim".
Anyone who thinks the Advance Games are anything but utterly mediocre is strongly delusional or has, ironically enough, probably never played the original 2D Sonic games and wouldn't know a good platformer if it smacked them in the face.
Most critics gave the games good ratings. Hell, even IGN, the biggest Sonic haters around, gave them very good ratings.
Also, Advance 1 plays pretty much exactly like the classics. The level design isn't as good, but the gameplay was fantastic. Advance 2 was pretty muich holding right to get to the finish, but could still be fun, if you wat to just have a quick play. Sonic Advance 3 is Sonic Advance 2, but with a level design that stops you from just going right, because there's always something blocking you. It was annoying, but generally fun.
They definitely weren't as good as the classics, but Sonic Advance 1 comes pretty close.