Chapter 519 "The Quality of a King" Discussion
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Hay! Look what I said last chapter discussion. lol, I much be a psychic. Actually, not it should have been a fairly foreseeable possibility:
Just curious, has anyone suggested the possibility that Luffy could accidentally utilize Haki unknowingly during his fight with the Boa sisters?
@Kuso:
I like the fact Luffy has been remembering stuff from past fights.
Yeah. Definitely showing Luffy's maturing. Gives the feeling that he needs to remember his mistakes, or times when one thing worked and one thing didnt….essentially, he is using his brain!!
@dirt:
Maybe the Color of King Aspiration can also influence people to do their bidding.
Too Darth Vadar for me. "What is thy bidding my Master."
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@Imitorar: Thank you. Somehow reading your explanation regarding the way Haki works and the way it was displayed in the chapter seems to make Luffy's revelation more digestable in my head. It probably was just reading the script and the chapter seperately that seemed to make the revelation work much worse than it probably was. I don't hate Haki (it's obviously an evolution literally needed to get to the next part of the story), I just thought for a while that Oda was making certain matters too sudden in making it fit in the story. (and yes, I know it's been there since the beginning as I explained in my earlier post, my complaint before was just my earlier thought that "the King Haki came out of nowhere")
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Alright, take it outside you two! My first impression was that they were surprised and let both of them go.
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Good thing I read the spoilers. Half of the chapter was untranslated. I learnd a new word today: Haoushoku! Oil in the fire anyone?
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@Kuso:
Alright, take it outside you two! My first impression was that they were surprised and let both of them go.
That's exactly what I am saying but cuz I disagree with him, he's gone crazy.
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Ugh. This chapter wasn't enough though. I need more. Need. More. Need. Need. Moreed..nemor….mo....mor....neee....foams at the mouth
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Hi, Just to point out that according to the chinese scans i read, han cock did not say "Just like me…He possesses the "Haoushoku"...!!? What's going on here!! // He's not just a normal kid? That guy...!! // But even I haven't mastered it yet myself…" but "But seems like he hasnt realised how to control it yet"
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@cybernix:
seems like he hasnt realised how to control it yet
Backed by:
One Piece Chapter 519 Translation by Kikuna992
_Hancock: The same as me… "The King's Colour"...!!? How can it be!!
Hancock: He... Isn't he just a brat...!!Hancock: But he doesn't have control over it..._
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No…no, I'm pretty sure what I suggested isn't jamming a DF. IE: Kizaru could still use his Logia powers and use a "Light"-saber against Rayleigh, but Rayleigh – using Haki -- was able to physically make contact with Kizaru and hurt him by bypassing his natural defense. Essentially what I am suggesting is exactly what happens to Luffy in this chapter, in the chapter vs. Sentoumaru, and when Rayleigh attacks Kizaru. But yeah...I didn't read all your post so I cannot comment further. Maybe I will.
Ah, so that's what you were saying. I was considering the possibility of that being your stance on this. The thing is, I don't think that's likely, or logical, that something could negate only part of a Devil Fruit's power. What about Devil Fruits that don't give a form of invulnerability? And logically, why would only the defense provided by the Devil Fruits be negated, but not the ability to actually use the main power of the Devil Fruit? The way I see it, the only logical stances are that either Haki totally jams a Devil Fruit (which I actually think is also illogical, but for different reasons) and that Haki can't effect Devil Fruits in general, it's just that Haki was able to produce an effect that affected Luffy's Devil Fruit.
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Get chapter from the raw providers here peeps: 519 by Franky House. Luffy is rocking the haki I honesetly hoped Luffy wont acquire this technique now but later. But whatever- is Oda
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Get chapter from the raw providers here peeps: 519 by Franky House. Luffy is rocking the haki I honesetly hoped Luffy wont acquire this technique now but later. But whatever- is Oda
added to the first post
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Ah, so that's what you were saying. I was considering the possibility of that being your stance on this. The thing is, I don't think that's likely, or logical, that something could negate only part of a Devil Fruit's power.
Well, first: I read your original post, and while I could rebuttal a few things, for the most part I like what you had to say. Next, I realize now that what I commented on initially was actually a rhetorical question, so sorry about that. Lastly, to respond to this post:
It's not so much that I think that what they are doing with Haki is "purposely bypassing the DF's natural defense", but rather the power it gives you allows for more strength etc., and as a byproduct can even have an effect on what should not be possible. In translation, it would be bypassing the natural defense a DF could give you. My reason for thinking this is possible, and also my my point of evidence for it is Rayleigh. If what Rayleigh was using – which we are led to believe, and I will touch on in a moment -- is Haki, then it must have been what allowed him to hurt and effect, but not negate, Kizaru's DF power. We are led to believe that Rayleigh was using it since Hacchin mentioned that Rayleigh had already used Haki, and Oda had been building Haki up and was obviously setting up this arc / saga as the revealing point for Haki. How do we know that? Arc starts off with Luffy using it accidentally on Motobaru, they then land on the groves where Rayleigh uses it – and then it is named. Following this, we see Sentoumaru hurt Luffy in a way that isn't normal, and he goes out of his way to state that it wasn't a Devil's Fruit. Finally, immediately after that Rayleigh does essentially the same thing to Kizaru, and instead of saying "How is he doing that?", Sentoumaru simply says "I haven't seen anyone give old man Kizaru a tough time like that in a while", which suggests he knows how Rayleigh is hurting him. THEN, we have Haki-Island. So, unless Oda was throwing in something else – Rayleigh -- to confuse us, then it had to have been Haki. Oh, and lastly if what Rayleigh used was anything else, then it should have stopped Kizaru more efficiently than simply allowing him to be hurt and that is all. IE: Were it a sea stone sword, Kizaru shouldn't have been able to fight back with a "Light"-saber because the sea stone sword would have made the power vanish. So no "negating" took place.
Given all of that, we can at least have a decent assumption that it might have been Haki that they were using. As for a punch being strong enough to hurt Luffy, and therefore Haki simply amplifying strength with will; well, I have already touched on that before. Let me dig up the old post really quick.
Edit: Here was our conversation on it in the spoiler thread: Post 1, Post 2, and Post 3.
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The 'King's Disposition' = The 'Will of D'?
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So the Seastone sword theory is negated. This does not negate the mirror theory, though. And you're right, Rayleigh's actions throughout the Sabaody Arc do imply that he was using Haki. You have proven that it's logical that Haki was used by Rayleigh to stop Kizaru's attack. But what you haven't logically proven is how the way Haki works would allow a Devil Fruit's defense to be negated, while leaving the power usable. I can't think of any way that could be, so I've rejected that theory, but if you can think of a way it could work, I'd like to hear it.
EDIT: Well, I re-read your post, and what I said wasn't completely true. You did mention how Haki would work to negate a Devil Fruit's defense. The thing is, I don't see how just boosting strength could produce a partial negating affect. Against Luffy yes, but that's not really negating the defensive powers of the Devil Fruit (how would that work, anyway? Either Luffy's rubbery and flexible, which boosts his defense too, or he's not. He can't be rubber enough to stretch, but not rubber enough to resist attacks, because in the Gum Gum Fruit, the defensive and usage powers are the same power, just different effects of it. I really hope that was comprehensible.) that's getting the desired affect despite the Devil Fruit power, even though the power is still there. Any strong blow could hurt Luffy. But against Kizaru, just boosting strength shouldn't affect anything, because mere strength isn't gonna let you punch a ray of light.
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Too Darth Vadar for me. "What is thy bidding my Master."
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What part of Star Wars are we talking about here?
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This does not negate the mirror theory, though. But what you haven't logically proven is how the way Haki works would allow a Devil Fruit's defense to be negated, while leaving the power usable. But against Kizaru, just boosting strength shouldn't affect anything, because mere strength isn't gonna let you punch a ray of light.
Unfortunately I offer no more explanation as to how Haki could negate a DF's defense. If it turns out to be true, Oda has proven over and over that his wacky mind can come up with an excuseable reason. However, the bold portion of your quote is exactly why I think Haki has a byproduct of having an effect on what normally shouldn't be tangible. IE: Kizaru himself. As for the "mirror theory", we already know that Brooke tried stabbing Kizaru to no avail, and his sword is just as "reflective" as anyone else's, and why would Rayleigh's sword not effect a sword made of light while being able to effect a man made of light?? If that doesn't negate that theory, I don't know what will. Plus, we know you can imbue weapons with Haki, so why not Rayleigh his sword so it can physically effect a laser-sword. You follow my drift?
Edit: Oh! Almost forgot. If Margaret simply shot an arrow harder / faster / stronger by using Haki, then that still doesn't explain why it can break rocks. I understand that the faster something move the more destructive power it might have, but the way Luffy mentions it suggests the arrow itself was more destructive somehow. This, again, adds to my theory I believe.
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That's because Luffy thought it was the arrow and not something Margaret herself did.
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@Green:
What part of Star Wars are we talking about here?
It was meant to be a play on the words he used and what he was saying. By allowing to control someone's actions by your force of will (Haki), you could make them do your bidding. That is what he suggested (or his friend did), to which I responded that it would be too "Darth Vadar" because "the force" allows you to use mind tricks to make people do things and Darth Vadar always says "what is thy bidding, my Master" to the Emporor. Thanks for ruining my great joke! crying
@dirt:
That's because Luffy thought it was the arrow and not something Margaret herself did.
Maybe so. I am simply saying that from my POV it had suggestive connotations. Plus, she responds to Luffy's "thought" by stating that "of course it did because it was imbued with Haki", and not because she used Haki to shoot it faster. See my point?
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I see that's how someone translated that line. Japanese doesn't have a word that equates to "it" really, so you can't say she was talking like that.
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@dirt:
I see that's how someone translated that line. Japanese doesn't have a word that equates to "it" really, so you can't say she was talking like that.
Ah! Good point. Well, as you can read Japanese I suggest you see what her response was in the raw and then go from there. Either way, in all the translations I have read she still responds that the arrow was imbued with Haki. Unless, are you suggesting she meant her fingers and arms were imbued with Haki and therefore she was able to pull the string back farther…...?
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I think she imbued the arrow with Aspiration.
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Thank you for the chapter.
Calling it haki for now. This movement prediction reminds me of Skypia's mantra, it could very well be the same thing. If the mantra was haki related, then hat would mean AISA had more control over it the Luffy does. Well, she did grow up with a bunch of warriors, but…
(Still liked her, she was funny, hope she grows up to be a great warrior :D)I'm just going to shut up and wait for Oda to reveal what haki really is. I'm not going to speculate any further.
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@dirt:
I think she imbued the arrow with Aspiration.
Ah. So why trip me up then? Well, you had a good point so I won't complain. But either way, does that mean you agree that there are connotations to suggest that the arrow then had more power and thus the ability to affect what it may not have been able to normally – and therefore she wasn't simply making herself stronger and more capable of shooting "real strong" arrows...?
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I'm gonna require you speaking English from now on.
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It seem that only king Haki can KO people, and Boa Hancock can KO people but not to a large range
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Great chapter !!!!!!!!1
Will oF D = King Haki !!!!!!!!!!
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@dirt:
I'm gonna require you speaking English from now on.
He asked if you agreed with the assumption that Haki gave the arrow more power, and not the archer.
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Why can't it do both?
I'm pretty sure that in this case it was just the arrow. I don't think it was moving any faster, but it was definitely stronger.
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why can't she invoke haki into the arrow while she's firing it ?
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@dirt:
I'm gonna require (that) you speak
ingEnglish from now on.なーんのこっちゃ? Anyways. This is getting out of hand. All I meant was that I disagreed with one of the points Imitorar had. Personally. I could very well be completely wrong; I just wanted to offer up some evidence to my points and why I think what I do. I meant no disrespect to anyone or anything.
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Well, I am just take a guess.
After Luffy use Haki to KO people around him.
The woman say: Only 1 in a Millions people is capable of using it… The haki of chosen one. " I take that she say only one in a millions people could use their haki to KO other."
Then one of the sister say: I never seen a person aside from ane sama who could use it. Again, she could mean use haki to Ko people.
Then Boa Hankcock says: Even i haven't mastered it myself. That mean she could KO people but can't use it on too many people or on a wide range like Luffy
Again, i am just looking at it from a different way.
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Well, I am just take a guess.
After Luffy use Haki to KO people around him.
The woman say: Only 1 in a Millions people is capable of using it… The haki of chosen one. " I take that she say only one in a millions people could use their haki to KO other."
Then one of the sister say: I never seen a person aside from ane sama who could use it. Again, she could mean use haki to Ko people.
Then Boa Hankcock says: Even i haven't mastered it myself. That mean she could KO people but can't use it on too many people or on a wide range like Luffy
Again, i am just looking at it from a different way.
O.K.
I prefer to wait for the chapter being fully translated and put on Onemanga.com. -
It seem that only king Haki can KO people, and Boa Hancock can KO people but not to a large range
Supreme King basically means you have a sorta control over people. So by Luffy willing for them to stop they either froze or fainted. For Boa, her supreme ruler haki has been used alot. How she basically charms people to do what she wants. I beat if she tried to do a KO type Haki attack then they would pass out. But Boa so far has been using the charm control type of ruling over people. The charming could also be related to her DF Love ability but combing it with Haki actually makes the charm alot more effective.
Its hard though to know what she means by not mastering it yet. We don't know the full extend of what the King Haki does so it could mean anything. So it's possible it could mean that she doesn't have a huge range KO like Luffy did mastery of it yet or maybe something more that applies.
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Supreme King basically means you have a sorta control over people. So by Luffy willing for them to stop they either froze or fainted. For Boa, her supreme ruler haki has been used alot.
OHHH! So this is what Dirt Monkey's friend was referring to? In that case, I guess it makes sense in theory. Of course, I still hope that isn't what it comes down to, and that Hancock's is still DF related and Luffy simply surprised them and used the KO technique. Somehow I didn't piece that together until you said that.
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Luffy's Haki is so big. mouth foaming
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O.K.
I prefer to wait for the chapter being fully translated and put on Onemanga.com.Yeah, let's all wait for "the official" scanlation on onemanga :D
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Its hard though to know what she means by not mastering it yet. We don't know the full extend of what the King Haki does so it could mean anything. So it's possible it could mean that she doesn't have a huge range KO like Luffy did mastery of it yet or maybe something more that applies.
It's more likely she was talking about Luffy not being able to fully control it.
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official IS official, Elric
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@dirt:
official IS official, Elric
To each his own. I like to wait for the official version of the One Manga scanlation team.
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OHHH! So this is what Dirt Monkey's friend was referring to? In that case, I guess it makes sense in theory. Of course, I still hope that isn't what it comes down to, and that Hancock's is still DF related and Luffy simply surprised them and used the KO technique. Somehow I didn't piece that together until you said that.
Yes, but her Kingly Aspiration could simply amplify her power. As in, she's willing them to love her, but Luffy, apparently, was both made of stronger stuff, and was too sickened by her to show lust.
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@MonkeyDMalcolm:
Great chapter !!!!!!!!1
Will oF D = King Haki !!!!!!!!!!
That's not it. Saul did have the will of D, but he didn't have the Haoushoku Haki. Anyway, great chapter! Can't wait for next week's one to come out!
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O.K.
I prefer to wait for the chapter being fully translated and put on Onemanga.com.It's on Mangafox.com
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OHHH! So this is what Dirt Monkey's friend was referring to? In that case, I guess it makes sense in theory. Of course, I still hope that isn't what it comes down to, and that Hancock's is still DF related and Luffy simply surprised them and used the KO technique. Somehow I didn't piece that together until you said that.
Well it's possible her charming could be DF related. Like the hearts coming out of the marines on the ship and why she is able to stone people like Medusa does. Since the 3 Gorgon sisters have DF related to Snakes and charming (snake charmers) /stoning (Medusa) are snake themed abilities. But a supreme ruler Haki could explain why she basically can control the other ladies Amazon whenever she does her I'm beautiful speech so they forgive her. Her Haki ability just basically amplifies her DF ability or it basically works in tandem with it.
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It's more likely she was talking about Luffy not being able to fully control it.
Well we would have to wait for a official translation but if she was talking about herself not mastering it then my version applies.
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It's somewhat strange though that this ability is so much common! If 1 person in a million can have it, in our world there would be more o less 6000 peoples capable of using the Haoushoku Haki. Maybe it's to be considered as 1 in a million of people from the Amazon Lily island, which would be a much smaller number of peoples.
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lololol luffy has teh geass.
Nice chapter. Always looking forward to some Gear 2 =D
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It's somewhat strange though that this ability is so much common! If 1 person in a million can have it, in our world there would be more o less 6000 peoples capable of using the Haoushoku Haki. Maybe it's to be considered as 1 in a million of people from the Amazon Lily island, which would be a much smaller number of peoples.
Well if you use the KO ability as people possessing Hauo Haki. There's Boa, Rayliegh, Shanks and Luffy. Only 4 known so far. So that is still extemely rare. Rembember only person in Amazon Lily that has Haoushoku Haki and that is Boa. Everyone else that has Haki on Amazon Lily has the generic version or the weaker type. So the 1 in a million thing still works. Beside we don't even know how many people are in the One Piece world. If there's 4 million or more the 1 in a million statement still holds water.