What. The fuck. That person had some serious delusions. I'm gonna let that sit right there…
Dude, It's The Moria-Kaidou-Luffy Thread
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I think people are underestimating how powerful Moria is. He has been the strongest villian the sHp has come across. He's fought against one of the yonkou and lost how badly who knows but the fact he lost his whole crew and Kaidou is still in emperor should give us some type of indication.
If luffy was to fight Moria
1 v 1
equal setting no interferences Luffy would lose. Moria's downfall was his overconsumption of power and his over reliance on the zombies. His brick bats and shadow manipulation would have raped luffy.
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Oda stated that Rob Lucci could defeat Enel…
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Where di he state that?
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Pink Databook, right after the page where it's said Mihawk can cut the elements.
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Oh thank god. It was a joke… OK MOVE ALONG PEOPLE!!! NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!!
(a hair's breadth from death)
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@MonkeyDMalcolm:
I think people are underestimating how powerful Moria is. He has been the strongest villian the sHp has come across. He's fought against one of the yonkou and lost how badly who knows but the fact he lost his whole crew and Kaidou is still in emperor should give us some type of indication.
If luffy was to fight Moria
1 v 1
equal setting no interferences Luffy would lose. Moria's downfall was his overconsumption of power and his over reliance on the zombies. His brick bats and shadow manipulation would have raped luffy.
I recall those brick bats barely broke Luffy's skin.
My view on Luffy vs. Mora, all the arguments are basically saying "if Moria fought better he would have won." I would think the fact that Moria didn't fight better was the reason he lost. It all really just amounts to the same excuses one would make if they lost a fight. Moria's reliance on zombies isn't a personality trait that he can fix too esaily considering how long he's done it.
And, that overcomsumption is Moria at his strongest. Without it, what would Moria do against a gear 2 and gear 3 Luffy at the same time? Remember, one attack could move a Moria that was bigger then Odz several feet–that kind of power could punt a normal sized Moria miles away. I don't think we can say Doppleman can block it, and Moria shadow teleporting trick can be outdone by an attack that covers two people.
As I see it, Moria completely lost at Thriller Barque.
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And, that overcomsumption is Moria at his strongest.
No, it was a bluff.
Moria had absorbed Luffy's shadow, and though Moria was weakened he would have added Luffy's strength at full power to himself. He could have used Luffy's techniques and everything, it would have been an endurance fight and the Straw Hats would have died when the sun rose.
Moria's Shadow Asgard was more a pep boost for himself, to show he was superior to the Straw Hat pirates. It was connected to his low self esteem IMV because Crocodile had nothing to prove back when he was a Shichibukai, yet Moria who was still bitter about Kaidou would have felt really bad if he let the Straw Hats walk all over him. So he played dumb and that wasn't the smart way to win.
Like Luffy's previous fight with Lucci, the loss was more due to carelessness on the opponent's side rather than Luffy overcoming his opponent.
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He could have used Luffy's techniques and everything
I'm not entirely convinced that is the case.
Oggy couldn't stretch when he had Luffys shadow. He could only do that because Moria manipulated Oggys body with his shadow powers (through Luffys shadow?).
There is nothing that really indicates that Moria can manipulate himself like he did with Oggy. Even if his powers allow for that to happen Morias body might not be able to take the strain that pressumably accompanies that skill. Oggy could take it since he's a zombie (improved by Hogback) and doeesn't even feel pain. -
Here we go, a post defending Moria, since I was under the impression that the Phenom Brigade and the mongoloids of Narutofan where the only ones who underestimated him, but apparently the brilliant new generation of Arlong Park posters likes to spew bullshit too so let's correct them.
-On the subject of Kaido: it was never stated anywhere that Kaido is the one responsible for the annihilation of Moria's crew. On the other hand we know Moria is indeed scared of the New World, calling it a "true nightmare".
It's perfectly possible that Moria's crew got annihilated by particularly vicious Seakings, or a natural phenomenon only found in the New World, maybe some kind of illness, and that Kaido later took advantage of it to defeat Moria.
Case in point, not enough is known about that fight to decide whether Moria and Kaido where once on the same level of power or not, so blabbering about it is just fanboyish garbage and a waste of time. Next.
-In terms of power now, Moria is quite clearly one of the strongest opponents the Strawhats ever fought. It took a powerup (Nightmare Luffy) that'd have immediately finished any previous opponent to just knock Moria out for a while. He took the same attack that sent Crocodile through dozens of meters of bedrock, only far more powerful, and got back up.
He got up and took 3 Jet Bazookas, and two blows from a combination of Gear 2nd and Gear3rd, and was still conscious. He had to conveniently stand below Thriller Bark's gigantic mast and get crushed by it to finally get defeated. These clearly are the most impressive durability feats ever shown by any One Piece villains, and it isn't debatable.
In terms of offensive power now, even if he hasn't showed much, the little he's displayed is actually extremely impressive. In one on one, he's able to end a fight with one touch: whether by grabbing his opponent's shadow and clipping it off, making him lose consciousness and disintegrate in sunlight, or by invading his opponent's shadow with Doppelman and controlling him like a puppet.
Brick Bats are also far deadlier than what most people give them credit for: it made Luffy bleed, something Kaku and Calipha Rankyakus weren't able of doing in the previous arc. It's also a perfect way to confuse opponents, before switching place with Shadow Warrior and cutting their shadow, something he can pull off so fast people like Sanji and Zoro can't react to it.
So you see, even without Odz or a thousand shadows, Moria is a very powerful pirate. But of course since his fighting style doesn't consist of FIRE BLASTS I LOOK SO COOL ON MY SKATEBOARD BOAT then I guess he's just like Bellamy lolololo
Bunch of cretins.
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-In terms of power now, Moria is quite clearly one of the strongest opponents the Strawhats ever fought. It took a powerup (Nightmare Luffy) that'd have immediately finished any previous opponent to just knock Moria out for a while. He took the same attack that sent Crocodile through dozens of meters of bedrock, only far more powerful, and got back up.
Bunch of cretins.
Didn't Oz take most of the damage caused by Nightmare Luffy?
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Nightmare Luffy punched through Oz's cockpit and right into Moria's face IIRC.
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No, it was a bluff.
Moria had absorbed Luffy's shadow, and though Moria was weakened he would have added Luffy's strength at full power to himself. He could have used Luffy's techniques and everything, it would have been an endurance fight and the Straw Hats would have died when the sun rose.
Moria's Shadow Asgard was more a pep boost for himself, to show he was superior to the Straw Hat pirates. It was connected to his low self esteem IMV because Crocodile had nothing to prove back when he was a Shichibukai, yet Moria who was still bitter about Kaidou would have felt really bad if he let the Straw Hats walk all over him. So he played dumb and that wasn't the smart way to win.
Like Luffy's previous fight with Lucci, the loss was more due to carelessness on the opponent's side rather than Luffy overcoming his opponent.
Well, that's somewhat true. Moria clearly used this technique as a display of power, but I don't think you can say that Moria would have had the exact same powers as Nightmare Luffy. There's still gear 2 and 3 to consider.
Remember that Moria can't exactly copy devil fruits, and it's unknown if he could make himself stretch like Odz without damaging his body. Although I'm a little confused, are you saying that Luffy would win or lose this fight? That's the real argument I'm concerned with here.No disrespect to Moria, but I find it a little ridiculous that Luffy is being put below Moria after wining that fight. It's an outrage. If Moria made so many mistakes at Thriller Barque, doesn't it stand to reason that he'd do the same thing in a rematch? No one is perfect after all.
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Nightmare Luffy punched through Oz's cockpit and right into Moria's face IIRC.
yes he did, but Oz still toke way more hits than Moria did, i think.
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I just could hope that in the later Chapters of OP the backround of the fight between Moria and Kaidou comes out more clearly…
As a passionated Moria Fan its horrible nothing to know about the big loss against Kaidou...Argh...Oda please do something XD. Show me all of the fight Kaidou and Moria...
And his dead crew...
(Wonder if Absalom was in Morias old crew. That he was the only survivor of the fight...together with his captain!:getlost:
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@Herr:
yes he did, but Oz still toke way more hits than Moria did, i think.
He still took a Hammer to the face, and then took some of the blows from the Storm.
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Well, that's somewhat true. Moria clearly used this technique as a display of power, but I don't think you can say that Moria would have had the exact same powers as Nightmare Luffy. There's still gear 2 and 3 to consider.
Remember that Moria can't exactly copy devil fruits, and it's unknown if he could make himself stretch like Odz without damaging his body. Although I'm a little confused, are you saying that Luffy would win or lose this fight? That's the real argument I'm concerned with here.No disrespect to Moria, but I find it a little ridiculous that Luffy is being put below Moria after wining that fight. It's an outrage. If Moria made so many mistakes at Thriller Barque, doesn't it stand to reason that he'd do the same thing in a rematch? No one is perfect after all.
Well oz was like a permanent gear three Luffy.He was big and all his mucsels were big.plus it helped alot when Moria actually streached his arms.So when you think about it the SH were fighting gear 3 luffy.
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One thing I find intriguing about Moria is perhpas the stiches he has on his body…
When we have a look at dr. Hogback we see him all patched up zombie like as well...If I would to take a guess I would say That moria as dr. Hogback have their body remodeled just like Absolm has it. That would in a way also explain Morias resistance to punches.
Blue
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Not shure about it…
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/468/09/
When Hogback met Moria for the first time, he already had his stiches and his weird body.
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Interesting…
Now I am curious if the stcihes came from mr. Kaidou or how they came to be at all...
Blue
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Moria has also shown amazing mental strength. It took two jet bazookas, two gigant jet shells and a tower falling on top of him for him to release the shadows. On gigant pistols, which may be the one of the weakest gigant moves, knocked out Lucci temporarily. You gotta give him credit for that
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Although I'm a little confused, are you saying that Luffy would win or lose this fight? That's the real argument I'm concerned with here.
Lose.
Moria's shadows could only empower a live person for ten minutes. This means that for ten minutes one could have the power of a thousand shadows, or use one shadow every ten minutes and keep the fight going on longer. That was Moria's mistake - he only had to keep the Straw Hat Pirates busy long enough for the sun to rise in order to win. Even if he was knocked out, which briefly happened before he burst out of Oz, the Straw Hats would have still been destroyed when the sun rose.
Once Moria absorbed all of Thriller Bark's shadows he was basically throwing away all he'd spent the past ten years doing just to destroy the Straw Hat Pirates. At the end of things he'd have no shadows left, not even the Straw Hats and would have to rebuild everything from scratch. So, I feel it was a weak move on his part - Shadow Asgard was not a move made by someone with the will to win.
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Interesting…
Now I am curious if the stcihes came from mr. Kaidou or how they came to be at all...
Blue
Me too, just paid attention to that, maybe Kaidou really did give Moria a real booty whipping, jeez, kinda feel bad for him now, to have your crew killed off, and to look like that, jeez!
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maybe this stiches are normal for his race? I mean we don´t know exactly what kind of "Thing" he is and to which he belongs to…
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A strange thought:
If Moria had the idea with Pluton and the porneglyphes on Alabasta he could have conquered the world easily. There are two persons who can read the ancient texts:
Nico Robin…. and her Shadow! Funny, he has the ability to get Pluton. Well... at last he could get it, if he would've been in the place of Sir Crocodile.
To get secrets out of persons or to use persons unique abilities, his kage kage no mi could be very interesting.Just a silly thought. ;-)
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If Moria made so many mistakes at Thriller Barque, doesn't it stand to reason that he'd do the same thing in a rematch?
No. Not by a longshot.
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Lose.
Moria's shadows could only empower a live person for ten minutes. This means that for ten minutes one could have the power of a thousand shadows, or use one shadow every ten minutes and keep the fight going on longer. That was Moria's mistake - he only had to keep the Straw Hat Pirates busy long enough for the sun to rise in order to win. Even if he was knocked out, which briefly happened before he burst out of Oz, the Straw Hats would have still been destroyed when the sun rose.
Once Moria absorbed all of Thriller Bark's shadows he was basically throwing away all he'd spent the past ten years doing just to destroy the Straw Hat Pirates. At the end of things he'd have no shadows left, not even the Straw Hats and would have to rebuild everything from scratch. So, I feel it was a weak move on his part - Shadow Asgard was not a move made by someone with the will to win.
Well! That makes a lot of sense, Moria could have easily grabbed a hundred shadows to distract Luffy, and burned down the crew. Of course, I meant something more along the lines of winning in a one one one fight. Even then, I don't see why Luffy couldn't overpower a shadowed Moria with gear 2 + 3. We've seen that Luffy already has the power to badly hurt and take hits from a 1000 shadows, so with less shadow's all Moria could gain is speed, while his other ability would decrease. Moria could have been beaten faster without shadow asguard.
For everyone arguing that Moria could have used say, 200 shadows to gain Nightmare Luffy's speed and power, take these into consideration. First, how much of Nightmare Luffy was a result of Luffy's natural fighting skill? Despite the fact that he was supposed to gain the abilities of all the shadows, except for one sword slash Luffy used all his own moves. So, how would this apply to Moria? Sadly, we've never seen his melee fighting ability. I'm weary to think that Moria could ever be as agile as Luffy with those stubby legs of his. Plus, we don't know whether or not gear 2 + gear 3 could close the gap against Moria.
But most of all, I don't see Moria as having any attacks that can actually beat Luffy. Most people focus on his defensive doppleman, but Moria's offensive is something I don't see killing Luffy. All he has are brick bats, and the raw strength of his shadow asgaurd–which was at it's strongest during shadow asguard. Though people have argued that less shadow's would give Moria the strength and stamina he needs to win, people seem to be forgetting that Moria's island-breaker punch could barely hurt his rubber body. All that's left is cutting off Luffy's shadow, and Luffy would never fall for that. His only chance was to have the sun burn down Luffy at Thriller Barque, where his zombies already captured him.
So, in short, I still find the idea that Moria could beat Luffy ridiculous. He's got nothing that can even hurt Luffy. Moria's a great character, but he's being overinflated in terms of strength. Which is tough, since before Shabody he's the strongest villain to date.
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What is with morphing Doppelman? What if he turns one of his arms into a sword? Can it cut his enemies? We know that Doppelman can be materialized and that he can damage stone, there has to be some raw strenght. (Why not using Doppelman in offense?)
Moria never had a killing intend, unless he was already in the corner and in rage to use shadows asgard. Basically Moria has a power with Doppelman, that works like Robins. He can make him appear behind his enemy and hold him. Same argument: You say Robin has no ability to fight Luffy? Well, we all know Robin can be a nasty enemy…
In a fight of a "mightiest fist", Luffy can win against Moria. But imagine all the tricks and evil moves Moria could do with his ability...Remember, Moria has sharp teeth ;)
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Well! That makes a lot of sense, Moria could have easily grabbed a hundred shadows to distract Luffy, and burned down the crew. Of course, I meant something more along the lines of winning in a one one one fight. Even then, I don't see why Luffy couldn't overpower a shadowed Moria with gear 2 + 3. We've seen that Luffy already has the power to badly hurt and take hits from a 1000 shadows, so with less shadow's all Moria could gain is speed, while his other ability would decrease. Moria could have been beaten faster without shadow asguard.
One-on-one? I do agree the fight would probably be in Luffy's favour - Moria's abilities, as Zoro commented, are more adapted toward indirect fighting and trickery, supported by Moria's own size and brains. When he fought Luffy directly, he used punches/crushing which wouldn't hurt Luffy at all and didn't use his Brick Bats to cut Luffy. As Zoro lso said, that Shadow Asgard was just to buy time.
Moria didn't really gain much from the Shadow Asgard except size and power, which as we read were useless against Luffy. Had he just taken, say, the shadow of that Marine Swordsman I think Luffy would have had a much harder time.
However, you have to say that aside from Rob Lucci, there is practically no one in One Piece who could best Luffy in a contest of pure strength. Devil Fruit users rely on their powers to make up the difference between themselves and the strong, while Luffy is a combo of both strength and a DF ability.
But most of all, I don't see Moria as having any attacks that can actually beat Luffy. Most people focus on his defensive doppleman, but Moria's offensive is something I don't see killing Luffy. All he has are brick bats, and the raw strength of his shadow asgaurd–which was at it's strongest during shadow asguard. Though people have argued that less shadow's would give Moria the strength and stamina he needs to win, people seem to be forgetting that Moria's island-breaker punch could barely hurt his rubber body. All that's left is cutting off Luffy's shadow, and Luffy would never fall for that. His only chance was to have the sun burn down Luffy at Thriller Barque, where his zombies already captured him.
I agree with that. Moria, for all the power of his incredible Devil Fruit, didn't have much in the way of direct offense compared to his indirect offense and defense. However, he could fix this by taking the skills of one person's shadow, or perhaps more. When Moria absorbed the shadows of all Thriller Bark, he didn't use those shadows skills, which wasted his effort.
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^ I'm just going to say that, I don't think one shadow would really give Moria that much of an edge against Luffy. He'd need several more to make an efficient distraction.
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First of all, an apology. I ended up trolling because I'm an idiot who doesn't know when to quit. So my past several posts were shit that wasn't worth reading.
The reason I decided to post again was to ask a question: Did Moria lose to Luffy because he decided to use Shadows Asgard? He became bigger and stronger, but it's because of his bulky mass that he's easy to hit, and he couldn't take Luffy's attacks so he lost shadows and strength everytime he's hit.
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The reason I decided to post again was to ask a question: Did Moria lose to Luffy because he decided to use Shadows Asgard? He became bigger and stronger, but it's because of his bulky mass that he's easy to hit, and he couldn't take Luffy's attacks so he lost shadows and strength everytime he's hit.
You yourself KNOWS the answer to this. Moria lost to Luffy cause he was WEAKER than him, period.
Despite all the excuses the Moria fanboys made he just got the crap kicked out of him. The guy wasn't worth a dime when he left Odz cockpit. Moria used Shadows Asgard against Luffy and none of his attacks were affective at all against Luffy. Everytime he got hit he spit up shadows and oh boy, roll out the red carpet, he couldn't even maintain control of the shadows (LOL the brute couldn't control his own power, you can tell that halloween pinata didn't train his powers) and to disgrace Moria even more he STALLED FOR TIME, he was fighting for the sun to come up. LOL, Moria wasn't even the real enemy it was TIME, how freakin pathetic.
I will say this in Moria's defense I believe his abilities could have been very powerful but his battle against Luffy was just written terribly. In his fight with Luffy Moria had to uses shadows to increase his physical strength? Why not use Shadows to turn them into spears? When Moria used Black Box why wasn't there any blades inside to damage Luffy? What the hell happened to doppleman for shields?? Seriously Oda could have made Moria have ability unrivaled but he terribly wrote his shadow abilities.
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You yourself KNOWS the answer to this. Moria lost to Luffy cause he was WEAKER than him, period.
Wrong answer .
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@Mad:
Wrong answer .
Yeah…Now quote the rest of my post and PROVE me wrong. da hell.
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I will say this in Moria's defense I believe his abilities could have been very powerful but his battle against Luffy was just written terribly. In his fight with Luffy Moria had to uses shadows to increase his physical strength? Why not use Shadows to turn them into spears? When Moria used Black Box why wasn't there any blades inside to damage Luffy? What the hell happened to doppleman for shields?? Seriously Oda could have made Moria have ability unrivaled but he terribly wrote his shadow abilities.
Perhaps you answered your own question.
(LOL the brute couldn't control his own power, you can tell that halloween pinata didn't train his powers)
Maybe Moria never trained his DF powers to the extent that the shadows could turn into spears.
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I Didn't Answer My Question That Was An Attack At Oda For Terribly Writing His Powers. He Didn't Give Moria Enough Diversity.
Moria Not Training His Powers Would Be His Own Fault And Would Show How Weak He Was, He Ain't Seasoned Like Crocodile.
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Moria lost because he made bad decisions not because he was weaker than Luffy.
Shitting on him because he couldn't control 1000 different shadows(including Zoro, Luffy's, Lola's, Robin, and Sanji) after taking a blows from N.Luffy's Hammer and then Storm…yeah, that makes sense.
Oda didn't poorly make Moria character because he didn't give him "cool moves" like you wanted to see. They only survived Thriller Bark due to multiple lucky breaks and his poor judgement, showing us there old accomplishments mean squat where they're going.
If he can fuck up so much and still give the SH such a hard time, they are in trouble once they meet somebody considered Moria's peer or stronger who takes them seriously and comes at them using the best of their ability.
Moria didn't do that. Not because he couldn't do more, but because he thought he didn't need to. Hell he thought it was shameful for him(someone who survied an encounter with a Yonkou) to go all out for a Rookie.
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Moria lost because he made bad decisions not because he was weaker than Luffy.
What decisions was that?
Shitting on him because he couldn't control 1000 different shadows(including Zoro, Luffy's, Lola's, Robin, and Sanji) after taking a blows from N.Luffy's Hammer and then Storm…yeah, that makes sense.
YES IT DOES, CAUSE IT'S HIS OWN POWER! AN ATHLETE WOULD GET CRAPPED ON IF HE COULDN'T CONTROL HIS BODY ON THE FIELD. NO EXCUSES FOR MORIA.
Oda didn't poorly make Moria character because he didn't give him "cool moves" like you wanted to see. They only survived Thriller Bark due to multiple lucky breaks and his poor judgement, showing us there old accomplishments mean squat where they're going.
I DIDN'T SAY COOL MOVES I SAID MORE DIVERSITY. ODA WROTE MORIA'S POWERS TERRIBLY. WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WOULD ODA ALLOW MORIA TO ABSORB A THOUSAND SHADOWS JUST TO BRAWL WITH A BRAWLER (HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN PHYSICAL BLOWS DON'T HURT LUFFY?) WHY COULDN'T ODA WRITE MORIA WHERE HE COULD ADJUST BY MAKING MORIA CREATE SPEARS OUT OF HIS SHADOWS? WHERE WAS THE DOPPLEMAN IN THE LAST FIGHT TO SHIELD HIM FROM LUFFY'S ATTACKS? HELL YES, IT WAS TERRIBLY WRITTEN.
If he can fuck up so much and still give the SH such a hard time, they are in trouble once they meet somebody considered Moria's peer or stronger who takes them seriously.
MORIA ONLY FOUGHT LUFFY NOT THE SH'S. ODZ FOUGHT THE SH CREW AND GAVE THEM TROUBLE.
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Guys, calm down. I like my thread and I don't want it to get locked. That would be like a miscarriage to me.
But I do think that if you are going to make a claim on this thread you should back it up with fact.
So guys, how about them Novas how do you think they would fare against Moria?:whistling: -
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I'm inclined to agree with Zkaiser. Play nice or the staff may not.
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As for why Doppelman didn't make an appearance in the final fight:
The way I read it (and I could be wrong) was that Doppelman was Moria's shadow. With the sun coming up, Moria not really in control of himself (according to Zoro and Robin), and Moria losing the shadows by the punch, Moria would've ben in danger from the sun as well (again, if I'm right). Also, if Moria lost conciousness with Doppelman separate, would Doppelman automatically go to Moria, or would it need Moria to regain conciousness and call Doppelman back? -
@Kidany:
This is basically a vs. thread which we don't allow so…
EDIT: You know what I'll reopen this just to see how it goes. Just know if insults start being hurled I'll lock it again.
Try to keep it civil.….......
I really would just lock this right now, but Roz already dealt with it I guess.
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Since I just sorta jumped into this thread, forgive me if I say something stupid or…just...not right.
I think that Law and Kid might fair well against Moria. Maybe not. Just a thought (and trying to answer your question). We don't know much about the Novas though, but given that they're equal to or stronger than Luffy they have a good chance against Moria.
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Yeah…Now quote the rest of my post and PROVE me wrong. da hell.
You were already proven wrong, you just ignore the facts.