Hmm, it would be cool if all the Supernovas head toward Merfolk Island together, but that may not be the case, since each rookie needs to get a reliable coater. I think the Strawhats will get there first because Rayleigh is awesome.
Chapter 503 "Striping Up The Island" Discussion
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I'm kind of sad, because I think Oda did end up splitting the Supernova into different groups. Those who almost pissed themselves when a Tenryuubito was threatened, and those who acted badass about it. I liked a couple of the Supernova who are apparently not going to be around much longer if that was a hint of things to come. Then there's the unknown group who are probably the middle-tiers of the Supernova since they weren't around for either incident. Who knows Oda might still keep some others around who were scared of the Tenryuubito because they might have been smart for fearing the repercussions, who knows.
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People are commenting on how intelligent Rayleigh is to analyze the situation. I'm now almost hoping that next week we find out he somehow misread it completely. How he could do that and still perform the right action, I don't know, but I'd find it hilarious if he did.
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This post is deleted!
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It would be a sad truth if Rayleigh was stupid but got right answers.
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The question we need to ask is, are we going to have a long story and battle here, or is it going to happen on Fishman Island? I'm hoping that we will get to Fishman Island soon. We've all been patient enough. Let's coat the ship, escape the admiral, and fight them on the other side of the Redline.
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^we're almost there. No long battle needed. Rayleigh coats the ship, they dive, and their on their way. Well, before going they still need instruction on how to actually dive.
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@Fire Fist:
Actually, I can, troll:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/127/
They're leaving as he wakes up. They left immediately after the Kuro fight. Where are the Strawhats in that Chapter? On Little Garden. Not to mention the fact that at the end of that mini-arc, the Strawhats are in Rain-Dinners. That same day is the day they defeat Crocodile, then 3 days later is when they show up again, with Hina. You honestly think that they came all the way from East Blue to Arabasta in 3 days in a naval blockade? I seriously doubt it.
All we know is that the beginnings of the side stories take us back in time since they start at the point when we left the characters. However the further development might quite aswell happen parallel to the main story. The side stories are full of time skips so it's pretty likely that they happen in the present time. There is zero proof that all of the side stories are flashbacks.
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It's a cool chapter, the coolest in a while actually. I must say that i especially loved Rayleigh's moment of glory. After reading the spoiler thread though, i was quite disappointed with the fact that Usopp hit Roswald by accident. I loved seeing Law and Luffy's interaction too. Also how cool was it when Brooke and Robin jumped down and started fighting straight away? I'm also looking forward to the next chapter where Luffy will be told of the lineage of the straw hat; Roger's hat.
We have seen him single people out atleast twice. It is not that big a leap to assume that he can choose which people to affect.
Besides Camie was in close proximity of people who fainted twice without doing so herself. I find it much more likely that Ray-jay can target (multiple) people with his spirit rather then have it work as an area affect.It's feasible, but as you can see from pages 18-19, Zoro and Sanji were also hit by the spirit burst.
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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Still, it's been less than 2 weeks in OP time since Enies Lobby was taken down, correct?
Is there an official statement about how long it's been since they entered the Grand Line? I've always wondered..
As for the recent chapters, for some reason they remind me more of Jaya than Loguetown. Maybe because of the "don't make a fight no matter what" promise and the introduction of new pirates. Rayleigh seems pretty cool and being Roger's first mate probably means that he knows what One Piece actually is. What if he revealed it all of a sudden? Heh. -.-'
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It's feasible, but as you can see from pages 18-19, Zoro and Sanji were also hit by the spirit burst.
I see nothing of the sort.
What I see is them reacting to some guy they haven't seen before suddenly (without effort) defeating all their oponents in an instant. And they can't figure out how he did it.
If someone like that shows up it's only natural to be on your guard even if they act all "chummy".
I don't know why everyone wants to interperate the reactions of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji as if they are hit by his spirit. But it is not the obvious or only conclusion. It would be the logical conclusion if any of the strawhats had any real experience with aura/spirit bursts before (the bison fainting doesn't count since noone understood what happened) but right now it is something on a whole other level then the strawhats power that just wiped the floor with everyone. None of the strawhats has seen a spirit burst before. (no not even Luffy, the seaking ran away instead of fainting, there was no sign of aura there) And Zoro, Sanji and Usopp wasn't at Shakkys so they have absolutely no idea who Rayleigh is.
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Interesting analysis as a whole, blue, although I disagree with this bit. The fact that Kidd and Law were entertained by luffy's assault on "Good Society" does not mean that they are good guys. It just shows that they have a similar anti-authoritarian world view.
This situation is directly analogous to Blackbeard's introduction at Jaya. Blackbeard agreed with luffy's philosophy on when to fight and was plenty likable. But no one can seriously say that he is on the SH's "side" considering recent events.
Why can't it have just been a case where they were simply entertained by it all?
Also, has Raleigh gone soft? He undoubtedly saved Shalulia from being snapped, sliced, and blown away by the strawhats. Or is this just his weakness for young women again?
huh? It seemed to me that he saved Camie as opposed to Shalulia. No one else would've got there in time.
One more note: Why did the Marines surround the Human House against Garp's orders? They are obviously there to contain Raleigh, Garp knew that that small of a contingent wouldn't stand a chance against the Legend. So what are they thinking?
It wasn't against Garp's orders. He told them not to engage him.
I don't know it this has been mentioned but has anyone noticed Luffy is still wearing the armlet from Thriller Bark on his left arm.
I was actually gonna bring that up.
I think its fairly obvious that no matter what happens next, Luffys' bounty is going to go through the roof. Usually its the marines HQ that sets the bounties, but its likely Tenryuubiyo have a lot off pull there or even put up a the cash themselves. By that I mean if 500mil is pocket change to that Charlos guy, placing even a billion on Luffys head should be no big deal for them.
And boy it did not look like Tenryuubiyo were happy with Luffy and SH crew …. :)
I foresee bounty hikes for everyone with the biggest hikes going to the captain, sanji and usopp. all three directly attacked a tenryuubito.
Right now I don't care about someones feet or teaching auras. Rayleigh is simply impressive. He is not just incredibly strong but seems to be a tactical mastermind easily surpassing Robin or Sanji.
A Genius! He analyzed the whole situation within a second. So this is what The Piratekings Vice used to be. No comparison to Zoro
What i like is the contrast with Zoro. Beckman was/is very similar to Zoro, where as Rayleigh seems to be a whole new mould of VC.
Coming back to the spirit burst thing. I figure that all three of the top fighters will go into the new world with there in there locker. It's a quick and efficient method of separating enemies from the cannon fodder and for that reason alone, it would, at least for me be something which they'll most definitely need. also, it will undoubtedly aide them in there run-in's with the marines and as such will secure there position as a top class pirating crew of which only the top brass can take on. Another interesting point is that the spirit burst wasn't something that Shanks had in his locker in East Blue when dealing with Higuma and in fact it could even be a point of speculation that it was awakened with the loss of his arm, could that be the reason that why the sea monster fled as it wasn't yet capable of knocking someone out?
I dunno, for me, being able to aim your spirit/aura just seems lame and takes away from the storyline as it effectively becomes a haduken.
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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Not to be a Dick or anything. But Zoro uses two hands and a mouth for his swords. He always have 3 swords on one side. So it doesnt matter which side he has it on, because one sword would be unsheath from an awkward side.
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Coming back to the spirit burst thing. I figure that all three of the top fighters will go into the new world with there in there locker.
I don't understand what you mean in "there in there locker."
I dunno, for me, being able to aim your spirit/aura just seems lame and takes away from the storyline as it effectively becomes a haduken.
Yes and no. If it's something kept unique to Rayleigh and/or older user of the Ambition, then not really. It would be something gained with age/experience. Even Shanks couldn't quite control the aim. Despite the fact he was boarding a potential foe's ship for peaceful talks, he couldn't remove/not aim the Ambition he was using in his last battle to not affect Whitebeard's rank-and-file. The only difference between his abilities and Rayleigh's are that it's incredibly likely Shanks had less time to learn of/learn how to use Ambition that way, depending on the difference in time between Shanks' and Rayleigh's joining Roger and whether Rayleigh knew ambition from the get-go.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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Even Shanks couldn't quite control the aim.
I just want to point out that Shanks didn't really have anyone to not point it at. He was on a "hostile" ship after all.
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I don't understand what you mean in "there in there locker."
Yes and no. If it's something kept unique to Rayleigh and/or older user of the Ambition, then not really. It would be something gained with age/experience. Even Shanks couldn't quite control the aim. Despite the fact he was boarding a potential foe's ship for peaceful talks, he couldn't remove/not aim the Ambition he was using in his last battle to not affect Whitebeard's rank-and-file. The only difference between his abilities and Rayleigh's are that it's incredibly likely Shanks had less time to learn of/learn how to use Ambition that way, depending on the difference in time between Shanks' and Rayleigh's joining Roger and whether Rayleigh knew ambition from the get-go.
"There in there locker" should've been "this/that in there locker".
When you look at Shanks' arrival in WB's ship, i think it was clear as day that he didn't intend to direct it.
We know Luffy is already capable of doing it. So the question is whether he can learn how to channel it.
Also, i think calling it ambition is a little misleading.
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sabert00the:
I think its the "there locker" part that you will have to explain… -
Locker? Does this have to do with Davy Jones' locker?
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It's a figure of speech (i guess) that you'd often find used around football (soccer), like if you see a defender score a goal from 30 yards out. You'd hear the commentator say something like "GOALLLLLLLLLL!!!!!! Who'd have thought he had that in his locker?!". So basically, it's just a reference to your abilities/skills.
Does that make sense?
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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Is this the first time Sanji smashed steel? He couldn't break tekkai and now this. Not bad Sanji.
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Oh now it makes sense to me.
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I just want to point out that Shanks didn't really have anyone to not point it at. He was on a "hostile" ship after all.
There was the entirety of Whitebeard's crew not to point it at. The ship was hostile yes, but they were there to talk peacefully not fight (at least initially). If Whitebeard had taken that as a deliberate attack there would've been trouble at the outset. Shanks interests would have been better served by his turning the ambition off or redirecting it if at all possible.@sabret00the:
Also, i think calling it ambition is a little misleading.
Maybe, I use it primarily as that's what's in Stephen's translations. Plus, given that its primary users to date seems to be limited to the big time pirates and the up-and-comers (Luffy) I think it's as appropriate as anything.@sabret00the:
It's a figure of speech (i guess) that you'd often find used around football (soccer), like if you see a defender score a goal from 30 yards out. You'd hear the commentator say something like "GOALLLLLLLLLL!!!!!! Who'd have thought he had that in his locker?!". So basically, it's just a reference to your abilities/skills.
Does that make sense?
I think I see what you mean now. You're saying that Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji will have access to it before they enter the New World.@KaiPirinha:
Is this the first time Sanji smashed steel? He couldn't break tekkai and now this. Not bad Sanji.
Those guards aren't necessarily equipped with steel, and Tekkai wasn't steel either. Tekkai was Iron, if I remember right. And without reference to the contrary, I think it's safe to assume the guards armor is the same.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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Those guards aren't necessarily equipped with steel, and Tekkai wasn't steel either. Tekkai was Iron, if I remember right. And without reference to the contrary, I think it's safe to assume the guards armor is the same.
Steel is harder than iron, if Sanji can break a steel armour, he can break tekkai too. But you are right, those guards aren't necessarily equipped with steel, maybe they have a bronze armour.
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But if Sanji can break Tekkai ("Iron Body") he can't necessarily break steel.
Plus, Sanji never actually broke Tekkai so much as bypassed it, to my mind. Tekkai did nothing to block the intense heat of Diable Jambe.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
-
There was the entirety of Whitebeard's crew not to point it at. The ship was hostile yes, but they were there to talk peacefully not fight (at least initially). If Whitebeard had taken that as a deliberate attack there would've been trouble at the outset. Shanks interests would have been better served by his turning the ambition off or redirecting it if at all possible.
You are thinking mainly out of a character point of view aren't you?
If you look at it out of a storyteller/reader point of view you see that: Shanks had no one to avoid using the spirit on, if he was going to use it at all.
This is after all the point in the story where this ability is introduced. It hasn't been showcased anywhere else where it might have been explained in preparation for the recent chapters.Since he gave advance warning Marco expected Shanks to do something like that, it's probably standard procedure when a captain comes onto another captain's ship, even if it's only for a talk… I highly doubt Shanks did that because of any lack of control. In my opinon it was just a way for Shanks to show off his strenght, and prevent anyone from getting any ideas about acting on any opourtunity that presented themselves.
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I stand corrected. I actually just looked up that scene and Shanks DID use his Ambition on purpose to knock out WB men.
Shanks: Pardon. I had to use a bit of intimidation… this being an enemy ship and all.
And you're right about it from a storytelling point of view also. It was necessary to introduce the ability. Though I don't think that invalidates a character point of view outlook. Part of storytelling is having characters act from their point of view, otherwise why do they do what they do? My re-read changed what I thought was the character point of view with Shanks doing it pretty much for the reasons you said, and brought the Char's POV in line with the Storytelling POV.
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Maybe, I use it primarily as that's what's in Stephen's translations. Plus, given that its primary users to date seems to be limited to the big time pirates and the up-and-comers (Luffy) I think it's as appropriate as anything.
We all respect Stephen's translations, hence why he's always used as a source whenever possible. However to call it ambition and to see an ex-pirate such as Rayleigh use it, who has no real ambition outside of gambling. I think the translation is flawed. Also ambition falls too close to bravado (if used in this context) and that seems out of character for most characters who've used it so far.
I think I see what you mean now. You're saying that Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji will have access to it before they enter the New World.
Yup, that's exactly what i meant.
Those guards aren't necessarily equipped with steel, and Tekkai wasn't steel either. Tekkai was Iron, if I remember right. And without reference to the contrary, I think it's safe to assume the guards armor is the same.
Given the way the metal broke, i'd say it's safe to assume that the suits weren't bronze and so i'm gonna +1 the iron theory. I personally don't see the Tenryuubito sparing expense on their personal guard.
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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We all respect Stephen's translations, hence why he's always used as a source whenever possible. However to call it ambition and to see an ex-pirate such as Rayleigh use it, who has no real ambition outside of gambling. I think the translation is flawed.
True. Though I'll probably stick with "Ambition" pending a more specific explanation of the power (which might suggest something else indeed). Until then, the word used is a matter of preference/translation of the word used (Haki, which comes up for me as "ambition" or "aspiration").@sabret00the:
Given the way the metal broke, i'd say it's safe to assume that the suits weren't bronze and so i'm gonna +1 the iron theory. I personally don't see the Tenryuubito sparing expense on their personal guard.
I thought they were auction house guards. But going back you're right, they're more personal guard than auction house. Maybe they are equipped with steel then. Or maybe stronger-than-normal iron, or something in between if there is such a thing. Then again, how well equipped do they need to be? They're bodyguards for people nobody in their right mind would try and attack. They're probably more to look impressive than be impressive.
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I don't think that invalidates a character point of view outlook
It doesn't I just didn't want to have an argument over what was said and not (since I was too lazy to look up the chapter for the precise phrasing =P), so I couldn't use anything like that as an argument. =)
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Ah, Okay then.
16 misunderstandings :)
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But if Sanji can break Tekkai ("Iron Body") he can't necessarily break steel.
Plus, Sanji never actually broke Tekkai so much as bypassed it, to my mind. Tekkai did nothing to block the intense heat of Diable Jambe.
I never said he broke Tekkai. I know that he didn't. What I said was that he can break Tekkai at the moment, because he can break steel (armour)and steel is harder than iron (body).
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I agree that Sanji can not break steel at the moment.
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Considering how big of a deal it was when Zoro was finally able to cut steel, I don't see them just glossing over Sanji kicking through it
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Well breaking iron is enough for Sanji at the moment.
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isnt it during the arc he actually almost break the tekai didnt he? the one in the train where bulenno almost loose his tekai… and then that wolf guy didnt he use tekai and able to move so i assume he use tekkai all along and sanji can actually hit him around.. i might be wrong tough xD
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True, but I don't think Sanji scored much actual damage until he used Diable Jambe except for a few surprise shots here and there Jabura wasn't expecting (and thus wasn't Tekkai'd for)
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I dispute the above version of events, but either way, we have to recall that Jabura's tekkai, was considered above the ordinary. I'd also say that breaking steel is a lot easier than cutting it and Sanji's big steel moment will come when he's able to leave foot prints in the steel.
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Erm, I seem to have gotten lost in the middle of the argument. What is the object of discussion. That Luffy, Zoro and Sanji will learn this ambition thing or simply that they could take it?
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Erm, I seem to have gotten lost in the middle of the argument. What is the object of discussion. That Luffy, Zoro and Sanji will learn this ambition thing or simply that they could take it?
Pretty much both. The query of whether you can pick and choose your targets was raised, which then lead to the question of whether or not the mugiwara took the spirit burst of not. The conversation then moved onto the fact that it's an important of the new world, being able to eradicate cannon fodder in one fail swoop, so pretty much everyone agreed that the monster trio will learn how to do spirit bursts.
I recommend: Peerless Martial God, Renegade Immortal, Gourmet of Another World, Trash of the Counts Family and The Great Ruler
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I thought it was obvious all the Strawhats could take it since they were all still conscious after Rayleigh used his "ambition." Seems like Rayleigh used it in a wide area in front of him which explains why Camie wasn't knocked out by it and why the Strawhats all felt it.
As to whether the Big 3 will consciously use it? Luffy is a yes obviously, Zoro I think will stick his "aura" and demonic presence and Sanji I'm not too sure what he'll do.
But if Sanji can break Tekkai ("Iron Body") he can't necessarily break steel.
Plus, Sanji never actually broke Tekkai so much as bypassed it, to my mind. Tekkai did nothing to block the intense heat of Diable Jambe.
The first of the two hits that connected after Sanji used Diable Jambe broke a good deal of Jyabura's ribs, and last I heard you can't break ribs using heat alone. Plus right after, Jyabura commented on the destructive force he felt along with the heat.
I think it's safe to say Sanji broke Jyabura's Tekkai.
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@Kidany:
I thought it was obvious all the Strawhats could take it since they were all still conscious after Rayleigh used his "ambition." Seems like Rayleigh used it in a wide area in front of him which explains why Camie wasn't knocked out by it, and why the Strawhats all felt it.
I actually said, we see in Sanji and Zoro's face that they felt the burst but people were saying Rayleigh could pick and choose who could be hit. At which point i commented on how lame that would make the ability.
@Kidany:
The first of the two hits that connected after Sanji used Diable Jambe broke a good deal of Jyabura's ribs, and last I heard you can't break ribs using heat alone. Plus right after, Jyabura commented on the destructive force he felt along with the heat.
I think it's safe to say Sanji broke Jyabura's Tekkai.
See, i remember him breaking the tekkai too.
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@Kidany:
I thought it was obvious all the Strawhats could take it since they were all still conscious after Rayleigh used his "ambition." Seems like Rayleigh used it in a wide area in front of him which explains why Camie wasn't knocked out by it and why the Strawhats all felt it.
As to whether the Big 3 will consciously use it? Luffy is a yes obviously, Zoro I think will stick his "aura" and demonic presence and Sanji I'm not too sure what he'll do.
Hmm, actually Ussop didn't feel a thing. That's why he was going "What?! What's going on?!"
@Kidany:The first of the two hits that connected after Sanji used Diable Jambe broke a good deal of Jyabura's ribs, and last I heard you can't break ribs using heat alone. Plus right after, Jyabura commented on the destructive force he felt along with the heat.
I think it's safe to say Sanji broke Jyabura's Tekkai.
I don't know how Sanji breaking Tekkai has anything to do with the chapter, but I'll comment. The heat from Sanji's foot could have instantly softened the area of impact, causing him to do more damage than just burning.
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I actually said, we see in Sanji and Zoro's face that they felt the burst but people were saying Rayleigh could pick and choose who could be hit. At which point i commented on how lame that would make the ability.
Oh I know, all I'm saying is why can't it be both? Maybe the aura can be used in two ways, it can either be:
-aimed at one specific person.
-used in a large area and anyone in it gets hit.That's how I see it at least. I'm not saying Rayleigh can pick and choose over a lot of people, it's either one or the other.
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May I add on that Rayleigh can use his Haki in rapid succession?
Although it seemed more like him targeting all and only enemies. Completely baffling people not hit.
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Pretty much both. The query of whether you can pick and choose your targets was raised, which then lead to the question of whether or not the mugiwara took the spirit burst of not. The conversation then moved onto the fact that it's an important of the new world, being able to eradicate cannon fodder in one fail swoop, so pretty much everyone agreed that the monster trio will learn how to do spirit bursts.
I see. Well, I seriously doubt that all three of them will learn it. It somehow makes it less special too many people use it. So far we've just seen Rayhleigh and Shanks use it, aswell as possible foreshadowing for Luffy's potential on that field when he took out Motobaro a couple of chapters ago. Luffy is at least linked to Shanks, so if he learns it (with Rayleighs help perhaps) then it would have the entire passing it down to the next generation component IF Shanks has it from Rayleigh.
And while Zoro and Sanji are also part of the next generation having them learning it would somehow ruin the Rayleigh-Shanks-Luffy connection IF there is any base to me interpretation of things. After all it's not like the entire New World uses this skill. Until we met Rayleigh Shanks was the only one who ever showed it, so it does appear somewhat of special.
As for the Strawhats still standing there. Well remember that Marco said that you "can't maintain sciousness before him (Shanks) unless you are fully prepared for it". Ok, there's a wide spectrum for interpretations how you prepare yourself but I doubt that you can only counter it with the same skill. I actually think a strong will would also work here. And we all know that the Strawhats have that. Even Usopp, despite lacking the physical strenght of the monsters. So going by that interpretation I have no problems to see it as them actually being hit by Rayleigh.
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You're all talking about the aura like its an move.
Way its described it just sounds like intent. Shanks intended to hurt anybody who messed with him while on WB's crew.
Rayleigh intended to cause harm to everyone but the SH(perhaps Kidd&Heart pirates too) and the intent to do so alone was enough to overwhelm all those ordinary people.
Its like in Bleach when Ichigo first met Zaraki and he thought he got stabbed purely because Zaraki wanted to do so so badly. Only its taken to a different extreme in One Piece.
You could even go more abstract and compare it to little girlies going crazy in front of their favorite rockstar. Think old video of The Beatles or Elvis concert where girls are screaming or literally fainting when they're not even performing.
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Well here's the thing. Ambition is….what? Indiscriminant? Unless of course Shanks was just totally being an asshole.
Who exactly did Rayleigh take down with it? A few nameless retard guards? For all we know they have wills of cotton. We do know that the 'ambition' can have different levels and is completely controlled by the will of the user if we're to believe WB. This means Rayleigh could just have cranked his ambition level to Stun and took out small-fry.
I'm not to gung-ho on the whole idea from the get-go. It was kinda neat to see Shanks do it but....would have been nice if that was Shanks specific. Obviously Oda has some big plans for it and that's why he's slowly wedging it into the story but dunno if I'm crazy about PSYCHIC NEO-TOKYO BATTLES IN YE OLD ONE PIECE. No but seriously, I'm cautiously interested in where he wants to take it.
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You're all talking about the aura like its an move.
Well if he can trigger it by his sole intention then it does have the characteristics of a move, don't you think?
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I speculate it is merely a party trick that only the extremely powerful pirates in the One Piece world can reproduce.
It's very useful in taking out small fry without wasting time in battle but useless when you're taking on an opponent of the same calibre.
