so that guy who beat moria is a yonkou thats someone else luffy will have to fight later
mabye moria will help the strawhats who knows
so that guy who beat moria is a yonkou thats someone else luffy will have to fight later
mabye moria will help the strawhats who knows
I wonder if that Clown Yonkou beat him up… And I wonder if he is Buggy's father. o_o
Whatever the case, it looks like the joke's on Moria.
I really doubt that Zoro will beat anyone right now. I doubt that to the high heavens.
The fact that some of you actually want Zoro to beat Kuma frightens and saddens me greatly. Why would you want potentially awesome characters to become worthless cannon fodder?
Ive been wondering something.What was that "offering to the sea god" we saw at the begining of the arc?It may have something to do with the conclusion.
Yeah, Lobo, it may be actually foreshadowing for one of the Ultimate Weapons. After all, Robin said Pluton was named after a God of the OPlanet, so perhaps the next one is named after an actual god of the sea.
Oh yay, Neptune.
are you making fun of me?
@Tyki:
another sweet chapter…looks like the straw hats might lose or maybe dragon will magically appear and save them
yeah maybe he will really appear!!!!!!!!!!!1111eleven
Ive been wondering something.What was that "offering to the sea god" we saw at the begining of the arc?It may have something to do with the conclusion.
Brook already explained that this is how Thriller Bark targets victims in the Florian Triangle.
How precisely?Yes,it shot off a beam of light,but it was BROOK's ship which came out first.
I really doubt that Zoro will beat anyone right now. I doubt that to the high heavens.
yeah i agree,
afterall they're all powerless right now…
Zoro just got the shit knocked out of him by a giant, red ogre, and even before that, fought a samurai who kept up with him him on a pretty even playing field. Now, he's about to face a Scichibukai presumably near Moria's level
Zoro pulling some ''I'l beat you….BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN MYSELF!'' shit isn't going to work here.
No, Zoro will pull I'll beat you cause I'm zoro. Duh. :P He can't lose a battle remember? xP He made a "promise." lol. I'm so going to love it if he beats Kuma.
Tonight, I shall celebrate the fact that you don't write this manga.
How precisely?Yes,it shot off a beam of light,but it was BROOK's ship which came out first.
Beat´s me. The dialog in chapter 443 was like:
Brook:"My word!! Is this ship already under "surveillance"?!! Observe, my friends!! The gate blocks our way to the fore!!! That is the root of the shaking!! But this is the rear of the gate… Which means...!! Look to the rear, everyone!!!__…did you happen to pick up a floating barrel at sea?"
Luffy: "Oh…!! Yeah, we did!!!"
Brook: "That was a trap! Your ship has been in their sights ever since that point!!"
Luffy: "Sights? What do you mean?! Our ship's been stopped here this whole time. What's an island doing right here?!!"
Brook: "This is a "ghost island" that wanders the seas…!!! THRILLER BARK!!!!"
Unfortunally it doesn´t say how exactly it works, but since it´s clear that the barrel is part of the surveillance it can be assumed that Perona is somehow involved in this. After all surveillance is her part and she´s actually the only one that should be able to keep track of Sunny once the flashlight appeared.
As far as Brook´s ship is concerned - That just popped up accidentally.
No, Zoro will pull I'll beat you cause I'm zoro. Duh. :P He can't lose a battle remember? xP He made a "promise." lol. I'm so going to love it if he beats Kuma.
coughEnelcough
Couple things:
-The strawhats had a moment to reflect on Luffy using so much dangerous power all the time to save their weak asses. And that if they got to the New World and had to fight stronger opponents, then…..
-Hogback and co. are planning something nefarious. Sore losers.
So, with those in mind, I postulate that either the strawhats are going to band together again and defeat Kuma themselves, thus proving they aren't riding Luffy's coattails.........OR Hogback's plan (whatever it is) is going to be used against Kuma, now that he's slated to be killed now as well. It probably won't beat him, but it'll allow enough distraction for everyone on the island to get the hell out of dodge.
Zoro's big fight in this arc was against Ruyma, so it's not like he's done enough already. He even got his ass kicked a couple of times by Moria and Odzilla. Kuma's out of his league anyway. There's a difference of 176 million beris. Should Zoro defeat Kuma, he would land on the same bounty as Luffy, making them equally strong.
I have hopes that Luffy kick his ass, and not have some person like Dragon or Shanks come and rescue them from someone they should be able to defeat by themselves.
I wonder whos going to save the day this time…. =/
How precisely?Yes,it shot off a beam of light,but it was BROOK's ship which came out first.
Wouldn't it be easier (and make more sense) to call it a flare?
No, Zoro will pull I'll beat you cause I'm zoro. Duh. :P He can't lose a battle remember? xP He made a "promise." lol. I'm so going to love it if he beats Kuma.
That's limited to swordsmen afaik.
Zoro's big fight in this arc was against Ruyma, so it's not like he's done enough already. He even got his ass kicked a couple of times by Moria and Odzilla. Kuma's out of his league anyway. There's a difference of 176 million beris. Should Zoro defeat Kuma, he would land on the same bounty as Luffy, making them equally strong.
I have hopes that Luffy kick his ass, and not have some person like Dragon or Shanks come and rescue them from someone they should be able to defeat by themselves.
We have no reason to belive this is not the case. Remember Zoro aims to take down mihawk, who is equal (or above actually) to one of the yonkou in terms of swordfighting. As far as we know the 4 emperors are the strongest pirates out there and probably not that different in terms of strenght.
The reasons Zoro hasn't gotten an equal bounty to Luffy is that he hasn't been able to prove his strenght to the same extent (Luffy had first dibs on the stronger opponents) and that he is not as big of a threat because he is not a captain. THis does not mean that he is necessarily weaker then his captain.
The last time we saw something we could actually use to compare their strenght was their fight at whiskey peak countless of chapters ago. Both has grown since then.
Doubt Zoro would have an equal bounty to Luffy even if it was proven that they were completly equal in strenght. Zoro is a follower and Luffy is his captain. Luffy makes the decitions and is therefore the primary threat.
That's limited to swordsmen afaik.
It is. Enel, Crocodile, and Odr all beat Zoro at one point.
@Fire Fist:
It is. Enel, Crocodile, and Odr all beat Zoro at one point.
When did Crocodile and Zoro have a fight?
Maybe he means Lucci.
Zoro did technically lose to mr 3… he lost to a damn stupid underling =P
Well, Kaku beat him in Water 7, but I guess Enies Lobby made up for that.
Hm, I can't really see the Strawhats getting out of this without Kuma ceasing his attack by his own free will. Sure, the Rolling Pirates could try to hold him off while they escape, but I highly doubt that'll stop him from teleporting away. Seeing as how they're the strongest there, I would doubt Kuma would take his time with anyone else first.
I don't know what to think, other than that Dragon/Shanks/Jimbei/whoever will most certainly not show up out of the blue.
@Battle:
Was it? Seemed fairly general to me.
- Page 159 -
Zoro: Lu… Luffy...?
...can... you... hear me?Luffy: Yeah!!
Zoro: Have I... worried you...?
If I can't...
AT LEAST be the world's strongest... swordsman,
...I'm gonna hold you back...!!!
(Gharf!!)Yosaku: Brother!! Don't say anything!!
Johnny: Brother!!
Zoro: FROM THIS POINT ON-!!
- Page 160 -
Zoro: I WILL NOT LOSE AGAIN!!!!
UNTIL THE DAY I DEFEAT HIM AND BECOME THE STRONGEST,
I. WILL. NOT.
LOSE. AGAIN!!!!
- Page 161 -
Zoro: Is there a problem with that,
Pirate King?!Luffy: Heeheeheehee!!
NOPE!!!Mihawk: A good team.
I hope to find the chance
to meet you again...
I guess it's formulated kinda general. But if you really want to you can argue that in the context he is only taking about swordsmen. =P
(If it is indeed general he has already gone back on his promise and it's not worth anything anymore)
Yeh, that's what was probably implied, and left upto the reader. But I'd think if Oda could go back and rephrase that slightly, he definitely would.
Zoro: Have I… worried you...?
If I can't...
AT LEAST be the world's strongest... swordsman,
...I'm gonna hold you back...!!!
I think that pretty much pointed out that if Zoro can't become the greatest swordman for any reason, then he would at least support Luffy to the end. I dunno, but fighting Kuma seems like a thing that Zoro would do, even if he would only buy some time for the others to make a strategy.
Ok BF… I got to ask whats up with your avatar? Is that an owl superimposed (or whatever.. I dont know what to call it whewn its partly transparent like that) on that guy?
who is that and why the owl thingy?
@Battle:
Yeh, that's what was probably implied, and left upto the reader. But I'd think if Oda could go back and rephrase that slightly, he definitely would.
Glad he can´t go back and do it because it would totally change the character if it would be rephrased. If Zoro would speak his words in that way that he directly speaks only about swordsmen, then he´d imply that he´s doesn´t deny the fact that he can get his rocks handed to him by a non-swordsman. And having such a thought, in such an intense moment where he´s dealing with the consequences of his dream and limits getting contfronted to each other he´d actually rather be a whuzz then a badass.
Beat´s me. The dialog in chapter 443 was like:
Brook:"My word!! Is this ship already under "surveillance"?!! Observe, my friends!! The gate blocks our way to the fore!!! That is the root of the shaking!! But this is the rear of the gate… Which means...!! Look to the rear, everyone!!!__…did you happen to pick up a floating barrel at sea?"
Luffy: "Oh…!! Yeah, we did!!!"
Brook: "That was a trap! Your ship has been in their sights ever since that point!!"
Luffy: "Sights? What do you mean?! Our ship's been stopped here this whole time. What's an island doing right here?!!"
Brook: "This is a "ghost island" that wanders the seas…!!! THRILLER BARK!!!!"Unfortunally it doesn´t say how exactly it works, but since it´s clear that the barrel is part of the surveillance it can be assumed that Perona is somehow involved in this. After all surveillance is her part and she´s actually the only one that should be able to keep track of Sunny once the flashlight appeared.
As far as Brook´s ship is concerned - That just popped up accidentally.
Yes,but with ships like the Sunny,looking out for a distant light in a fog so thick it wont let sunlight through and then going there with a whole damn ISLAND ,when the people could actualy saild OUT of it,that seems kinda…... unfinished.There HAD to be something more.Oh well,SBS turn I guess.
who is that and why the owl thingy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_%28Twin_Peaks%29
Owls are the eyes and vehicles for Bob
No, Zoro will pull I'll beat you cause I'm zoro. Duh. :P He can't lose a battle remember? xP He made a "promise." lol. I'm so going to love it if he beats Kuma.
Zoro won't lose against a SWORDSMAN, he's already lost against Ener, Luchi, Aokiji, etc.
Is Kuma a swordsman?
Yes,but with ships like the Sunny,looking out for a distant light in a fog so thick it wont let sunlight through and then going there with a whole damn ISLAND ,when the people could actualy saild OUT of it,that seems kinda…... unfinished.There HAD to be something more.Oh well,SBS turn I guess.
Peronas ghosts probably saw the flare.
The strawhats were all inside talking to Brook when they got captured.
The whole island IS morais boat. he doesnt travel from it (not sure what you mean by "then going there with a whole damn ISLAND ,when the people could actually saild OUT of it," bit)
The entrance was closed behind them after they got inside the boat. They couln't sail away from the island only around it.
Yes,but with ships like the Sunny,looking out for a distant light in a fog so thick it wont let sunlight through and then going there with a whole damn ISLAND ,when the people could actualy saild OUT of it,that seems kinda…... unfinished.There HAD to be something more.Oh well,SBS turn I guess.
The point is though, that Sunny actually entered the Florian Triangle after they´ve been spotted, meaning Thriller Bark had them under surveillance while they were outside of the fog. I really don´t think that we´ll see more explenations about it. You´re right, that with the fog and all it´s still tough to see the light, but heck, it´s a manga with zombies and the like where a girl is using ghosts for surveillance purposes. In such a world Brooks words have to work as explenation.^^
I meant "out of the fog".You couldnt take their shadows in the sun,could you?
I meant "out of the fog".You couldnt take their shadows in the sun,could you?
Probably can, it'd just be stupidly pointless because the person would instantly burst into flames and destroy the shadow.
Glad he can´t go back and do it because it would totally change the character if it would be rephrased. If Zoro would speak his words in that way that he directly speaks only about swordsmen then he´d imply that he´s doesn´t deny the fact that he can get his rocks handed to him by a non-swordsman. And having such a thought, in such an intense moment where he´s dealing with the consequences of his dream and limits getting contfronted to each other he´d actually rather be a whuzz then a badass.
The original quote implies the broader spectrum, thus if that's so as Golrom said, he's effectively broken the oath a few times over. Personally, I don't think Oda clarifying the point by slightly rephrasing that to suggest only 'swordsmen' would overly alter or change his character or somehow be a grand admission of weakness in that moment, since his opponents by and large consist of swordsmen, and his dream is to becoming the strongest of them.
So far Zoro losing in battle to non-swordsman, albeit shameful have been rather inconsequential upon the core of his dream, and to the essence of that oath, since he isn't trying to be the world's greatest fighter/brawler, though to be bested by a swordsman again, then his oath is truly broken and his dream is sorta on the rocks.
I meant "out of the fog".You couldnt take their shadows in the sun,could you?
Who should have sailed out of the fog and when? The strawhats needed to go through the fog to reach Fishman island, and they did not know about Moria. (they had heard rumors about ghosts though).
Once they got caught (and discovered Morias ship at all) the gate closed behind them, they couldn't sail away from the island.
About Zoros Oath:
I'm reading the "If I can't be the worlds strongest swordsman, I will hold you back." bit as he can be ok with Luffy beeing stronger then him. The thought that there will be people still stronger then him is there, just not outspoken.
Wow, this is the first time in a while that I've been cought up with the manga, and I'm kinda glad that I waited for chapters to build up. Had I been reading it weekly, I probably would've been annoyed with the past couple chapters, but reading them all at once is great. Next chapter should be awesome.
I really can't see Rolling Pirates make much of a diversion, if anything they're going to get their arse's handed to them in a manner of minutes leaving only enough time to think of a plan to hold Kuma off themselves.
I know this is a bit off of the current topic but the only way I see the SH as well as the Rolling Pirates to live after this who thing is either Kuma to 1. See that Moria is still alive, so thusly, no witnesses to Moria being killed or "defeated" or 2. Kuma realizing that every single person that got their shadows back knows Moria was defeated so he has to either defeat all those other people or just call off the whole thing. I doupt though that he would disobey the WG and stop killing people. The only way I see it is if he comes up with the idea that no one has a reason to die. The first option looks better for SH, maybe the logic will work out well.
haven't read all the topic but, is there going to be new chapter next week??
Nami's fear of Kuma seems a little forced. Sure, Kuma's is obviously a huge threat who physically capable snapping her bones like toothpicks, but the fact that Kuma's very presence makes Nami speechless is a little hard to believe. After standing before guys like Enel, Moria, and Odz, that is.
Moria is obviously not dead, since Crocodile was still alive, Enel was still alive, though the fate of CP9 is questionable, I suspect they are still living. I think the only way they'll be saved in any sort of predictable manner is if Kuma shows mercy, as Aokiji did.
Nami's fear for Kuma comes from his encounter with Perona.
Personally I don't mind the fact that they are facing another Shichibukai right after Moria, I think it's more interesting that way. The bar needs to be raised higher anyway.
In regards to Zoro vs. Kuma, it would be nice if Zoro could beat Kuma on his own. I mean with Usopp's recent observation of Luffy - endangering himself every time he uses the gears - it only prompts the need for the SH crew to become stronger. I also believe each member feels this need as well; Usopp is genuinely worried about Luffy, as are I'm sure the other crew mates.
However I am not sure if Zoro will/could at the moment actually win (I would love it if he did though), as many people have pointed out he has done quite a lot of fighting already, but I think Zoro can give the rest of the straw hat crew a good chance to evaluate Kuma's fighting methods, power, and ability. In my opinion, I doubt that Dragon or anyone else is going to come and save the SH crew - deus ex machina style. Rather it's probably going to become more difficult, but I believe the SH crew need this further push, the what happens without Luffy as back-up. Luffy needs to know that he can rely on them after he uses the gears, since he is left utterly defenseless. Although I love seeing Luffy kick a$$, I am a little tired of the 'lets hold him off until Luffy comes'. I would love to see the rest of the SH crew handle a Shichibukai on their own.
I also have a feeling the crew is going to separate soon (although I could be wrong) - Chopper will probably try to get Luffy to safety, and some of the others might try to get the ship ready to depart asap. Zoro might have a hard time stopping Kuma from preventing them to leave, but I have a feeling some will be able to escape. But then there is the issue of Hogback and Absalom, which I'm sure will be another issue. I doubt they will team up with SH against Kuma, sure he has to erase everyone who saw Moria's defeat (they didn't technically see it yet though right?)…but those are Moria's important 'crew members', and the WG doesn't want to get rid of Moria.
Apart from Zoro vs Kuma issue, I am really anxious to hear the news about Ace. What will be the reaction from Luffy? Will he hear it himself, or will the rest of the SH crew find out first? What is the official state of Ace? Finally someone (Kuma) who can release this information has come to the fore-front.
Nami's fear of Kuma seems a little forced. Sure, Kuma's is obviously a huge threat who physically capable snapping her bones like toothpicks, but the fact that Kuma's very presence makes Nami speechless is a little hard to believe. After standing before guys like Enel, Moria, and Odz, that is.
I think her reaction is not just from Kuma, but the fact that they already have been fighting non-stop all night - and with a Shichibukai, and with Luffy out, and with everyone close to exhaustion. The last thing they need is another strong opponent - who they don't really know anything about, only that he is another Shichibukai.
Anyway these are just my thoughts and speculations - I'm new here, so I hope I don't offend anyone (not my intention). It's fun to read everyone's thoughts and speculations and have debates^_^
Nami's fear of Kuma seems a little forced. Sure, Kuma's is obviously a huge threat who physically capable snapping her bones like toothpicks, but the fact that Kuma's very presence makes Nami speechless is a little hard to believe. After standing before guys like Enel, Moria, and Odz, that is.
It's hard to believe even after she shit her pants over generic zombie goons 30 chapters earlier?
Nami's fear of Kuma seems a little forced. Sure, Kuma's is obviously a huge threat who physically capable snapping her bones like toothpicks, but the fact that Kuma's very presence makes Nami speechless is a little hard to believe. After standing before guys like Enel, Moria, and Odz, that is.
i don't think so i think its goes a long way to show us the power of Kuma because it seems as if Kuma is stronger than all of them and now of them looks as intimidating as Kuma does. Also her intense fear would also show how the WG has so much faith in Kuma after Moria was defeated they feel still that he get the job done which will go a long way in explaining the level of power of the shickibaukai buts its getting confusing.