Somebody should go start an "Is Oda Getting Divorced?" thread or something. I want to talk about Almighty Odz and his Disproportionately Small Legs.
Chapter 470 "Odz vs Strawhats" Discussion
-
-
Yes, but the bickering was alot alike Zoro and Sanji's fights. I think we were to see it as both.
But as I've said a number of times, this trait left over would impede their loyalty therefore it should have vanished.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN
I'm NOT saying anyone on this board is wrong or has an incorrect theory or is in any way the opposite of correct. I'm pondering out loud how I wish Oda would clarify what gets left over and what doesn't because there are a number of inconsistencies. Christ, next time I'll just keep my trap shut.
-
Well, I think their fight was just plain Irony, nothing more than comedy added to the fact that the zombies became way too loyal after their former personalities completely vanished. Hell, Like I said before, I doubt that Ryuuma even felt like peeking at Nami's Panties when he said that. So far, we can say that Ryuuma's Yohohoing is as equal as the emptyness of Odz and Giggolo at the moment of shouting atack names.
-
I don't think the zombies/traits thing should be taken so seriously, it's not an exact science. Some traits just stay on in a zombie–maybe it's completely at random? That happens a lot. Or, maybe it's just the strongest traits in the shadow, or the traits that suit the new zombie best? Maybe Ryuma likes tea too?
In the end, I don't think it's something that needs to be explained. Draw your on conclusion and stick to it–it's right until the manga does something to prove otherwise.
-
I don't think the zombies/traits thing should be taken so seriously, it's not an exact science.
I totally agree. That's why I refuse to discuss the matter in minute detail. I'd just like Oda to comment on it someday.
-
I disagree. This whole shadow-zombie thing is something that needs to be looked at by our top scientists…Or at the very least, a college level literature class. Heck a whole semester should be dedicated to the One Piece shadow-zombie thing.
-
I think Oz has disproportionately small legs too. But he's dam cool anyways. and his master's powers are cool too ;p I wanna see how Luffy ends this fight!! Go Luffy! Go Moria!
(huh am i contradicting myself ?? '_'??) Hi Gorlom
-
uhm…. there are a couple of issue, maybe already been addressed...
Odz has only ONE eye. Since for Zoro wasn't THAT hard cutting one tooth of his, it shouldnt be extremely infeasible driving the monster blind. Which, most probably, is what zoro was ALREADY trying to do.
the second one, i just forgot :D
-
I totally agree. That's why I refuse to discuss the matter in minute detail. I'd just like Oda to comment on it someday.
I think you´re making the matter far more complex then it is actually. I know you got my previous explenation but there still seems to be something to desire so I´ll to a different approach. Just think of stories where there´s guys that can steal other people´s memories. Mostly it will be like that, that those whose memories were stolen can remember any details of their own or other peoples identity or about stuff they´ve experienced. However those people will still keep the same personality. They´ll actually just as you would expect them to act minus having a memory of everything. This is also based on instincts which has a great influence of the forming of a personality.
That´s pretty much the same concept that applies for the shadow stealing thing (though of course the one who loses his memory is not the person itself but the shadow). That´s why personality traits that are not tied to memories and are more connected to the instinct. Whenever fighting is a theme of memory losing stories, a victim puts up one of his regular moves and gets asked afterwards how he did it only to reply that he had no idea, it just went by instinct. That´s pretty much the same why the fighting styles are kept for the zombies here. And things like being a pervert, having an iron will etc. aren´t things that depend on memories either. They just make the personality what it is even if all memories are gone.
I´m not trying to force something into you Greg, it just appears to me that you´re pushing a hard one on yourself trying to get that thing while there really isn´t much complexety (is that even a word?) to it, so I´d like to help.^^
-
Hi Gorlom
Hi Archtyrant
Cubo: zoro didnt exactly go for the tooth as i understand it.. so hitting the eye if Oggy dodges might be problematic
-
So he's sick (or so they say). Hope he gets better.
I also deeply hope a lot of people in this thread was joking, thinking the break was cause he ran into a snag in the story.
-
Yes, sick as in Oda played Monster Hunter II: Freedom all that week, shuffled around the house in his bathrobe and slippers. Then Togashi came round, they got wasted and played Wi-Fi MH2F till 5 am on the morning of deadline.
That kind of sick.
-
@Battle:
Yes, sick as in Oda played Monster Hunter II: Freedom all that week, shuffled around the house in his bathrobe and slippers. Then Togashi came round, they got wasted and played Wi-Fi MH2F till 5 am on the morning of deadline.
That kind of sick.
Ah. Then all is well.
-
I think Oz has disproportionately small legs too. But he's dam cool anyways. and his master's powers are cool too ;p I wanna see how Luffy ends this fight!! Go Luffy! Go Moria!
You know what I find ridiculous, that a Man with a Huge Belly and disproportional legs like Moria is managing to escape from a Man who, besides being able to stretch, was enough fast to Keep up with Blueno's Soru. :getlost:
-
not useing gear2 atm because of the damage it does to him.
even if the legs are disproportional they are still longer then luffys.. hell his shoes are longer then luffy. ofc he is faster.
-
Cubo: zoro didnt exactly go for the tooth as i understand it.. so hitting the eye if Oggy dodges might be problematic
You serious, Gorlom? Why do you think so?
You see, page 12, last table on the right, bottom, you can see Zoro trying to continue the cut, ALTHOUGH he already achieved in cutting Odz's tooth. Therefore, I guess he wanted to go further, maybe hoping to distract odz by cutting his tooth, or similar, before going for the eye.
Plus, Zoro always proved to be some way strategic during fights, that's why I wouldn't say it just a random table. Otherwise it wouldn't really make much sense.
don't assume he tempted cutting the whole skull through.Well, whatever…. what do you think?
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
You know what I find ridiculous, that a Man with a Huge Belly and disproportional legs like Moria is managing to escape from a Man who, besides being able to stretch, was enough fast to Keep up with Blueno's Soru. :getlost:
well KK, dont forget dont forget luffy cannot fly -yet, probably never-, and during blueno or lucci fight he was still walking. If luffy could easily walk over ruins -which still might not be so immediate-, that would not be really effective, managing only to attack Odz's feet. Since I dont think luffy could stretch his arms SO far and SO quickly.
-
well KK, dont forget dont forget luffy cannot fly -yet, probably never-, and during blueno or lucci fight he was still walking. If luffy could easily walk over ruins -which still might not be so immediate-, that would not be really effective, managing only to attack Odz's feet. Since I dont think luffy could stretch his arms SO far and SO quickly.
What? I just said that Luffy, in his standard form, had been enough fast to react to Blueno's and Koby's Soru, so yeah, I wonder how Moria could be that fast if he practically sleeps during most of his free time. :S
Anyways, I doubt Luffy could even beat Odz, perhaps distract him with a Sudden Storm, but Odz is still by far the strongest character in physical terms, besides Shanks, Whitebeard and Mihawk, that we have seen so far, and I'm not including Blackbeard because I somehow see him as an equal to Luffy. I mean, both of them have the best DF for physical combat, one that decreases impacts and the other that is an universal counter for DF…
-
This post is deleted!
-
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
What? I just said that Luffy, in his standard form, had been enough fast to react to Blueno's and Koby's Soru, so yeah, I wonder how Moria could be that fast if he practically sleeps during most of his free time. :S
Anyways, I doubt Luffy could even beat Odz, perhaps distract him with a Sudden Storm, but Odz is still by far the strongest character in physical terms, besides Shanks, Whitebeard and Mihawk, that we have seen so far, and I'm not including Blackbeard because I somehow see him as an equal to Luffy. I mean, both of them have the best DF for physical combat, one that decreases impacts and the other that is an universal counter for DF…
Personally, I dont care for comparisons, neither I try to do it, nor try to evaluate them.
Simply…... I was talking about Odz, I made a mistake while reading ur comment With Moria.... well, I agree, but--- whatever, let's just trust oda!
-
Saw the spoiler thread.
Sudden illness?! And removed from publication.. next weeks might be lonely too. -
@Rai:
Saw the spoiler thread.
Sudden illness?! And removed from publication.. next weeks might be lonely too.I just read that also… I PRAY its not serious. GET BETTER ODA~!
-
Maybe that means that Moria's physical ability allows him to keep up with the likes of Soru.
Nah, I think it's only cos Moria had that head start. In Chapter 469, while Luffy had his attention on Oz, Moria manage to climb all the way down the stairs. Then Luffy was attacked by Oz. All this time wasted should have given Moria time to run quite a distance. Notice that by the end of the chapter, Luffy managed to have caught up anyway. At the beginning of chapter 470, we see Luffy stilll chasing Moria. However, not much time must have elapsed since at that same moment, Oz was still staring at the Strawhats like he was doing at the end of the previous chapter. So, I don't think there was much indication of Moria's speed keeping up with Luffy's.
Or maybe Doppelman was helping him to run, seeing as how it is such a cool power ;p
Anyway, the thing about memories.. I think it'd be safer to say that while the zombie will gain the fighting skills of the shadow it possesses, it will retain more of the former owner's character than the shadow's. We look at Zoro's and Chopper's fights as case material. Ryuuma often insisted that he was a former samurai. Even though his antics were like those of Brook's i.e. his personality traits, his spirit was like those of a samurai's i.e. his character. We see this in his giving his sword up to Zoro when he lost the fight; I doubt this was something Brook would intentionally do. Then we have a look at Cindry. This one's obvious; she started crying when her former owner's will acted up in her.
What do we learn from this? I learnt 3 things:
1. In the OPverse, even if a person dies and has departed, his will continues to live on within the body. When Moria comes along, steals a shadow and forces it into the body, the body, the zombie, first starts to act as though he was a clone of the shadow's former owner. This is likely because the shadow and the body's former owner's will have not yet synchronized. The greater the difference in power levels between the 2, the longer it takes for them to synchronise. Now here comes a part that can get a little bit complicated. Moria's ability is the ability to control shadows. However, when he takes another person's shadow and places it within the body of a dead person, that shadow is sort of given ""free will" again in the dead person's body, that is, free from Moria's control. This is because the shadow's will has not yet completely merged into the body's own will. This difference in wills is what causes a disruption that causes Moria to be unable to fully channel his will upon the body with the shadow, and thus the shadow, being the predominant will upon the body, can do whatever it likes to do. Over time, the shadow's and the body's will, having lived together, slowly merges together until they form a single will. This single will can then be controlled by Moria, who has control over the shadow, and thus the shadow's will. There are no more disruptions within the body, and so Moria can control it as if the body were the shadow itself, since they are now effectively those of the same will. The closer in power level and fighting ability between the wills of the shadow's and that of the former owner's, the easier it is for their wills to synchronise and thus the faster they will. This is why Moria wants to put shadows in bodies with similar power level; not only can he tap on the shadow's fighting ability, they are also more able to easily synchronise with the body and thus be under his command.2. It seems that, given sufficient room for thought, the body's former owner's will can act up again and take control of the body in the form of being the predominant will upon the body. This can be due to strong emotions, feelings, etc., what have you. That same form of appeal cannot be made to the shadow, however, since the shadow has already come under the control of Moria. This is why Brook's constant begging towards Ryuuma to remember their past doesn't materialise; Moria's will upon the shadow does not allow it to remember its past, only that it can gain the fighting ability of the shadow owner's. This un-forgetting the fighting ability also comes along with it the side effect of not having the same antics while fighting. This is why Ryuuma continues to SAY that he wants to look at panties, and the zombies will shout the shadows' former owners' words being implementing an attack. This is to say that, while the shadow has forgotten its past, it will not forget it's antics as it is key to their fighting ability, as per Moria's command. The same cannot be applied to the body's former owner's will as that will does not come under the control of Moria. Hence, Zoro and Chopper are able to appeal those wills and disrupt the channel that contain's Moria's command. Is anyone lost? I realise this is a huge bag of words.
3. This probably means that the group is in quite a bit of trouble. The former owner of Oz's body is a legendary criminal. Any attempt to appeal to Oz's former will will likely end in more destruction. This is unless, somehow, Luffy's will in his shadow is strong enough to overcome Moria's command, but I don't see how that can happen. This means that either Moria has to give the command to Luffy's shadow to return to him, or the Strawhats have to somehow find a way to defeat Moria. Either way, this is means loads of trouble for the gang.
EDIT: There is also the case where the shadow's former owner can exert a strong will on his shadow and thus make Moria unable to control him, but that would be a lesser point compared to the time it takes for shadow and body to synchronise, at least in my opinion.
-
About 1, boiga said millions of times already that Stephen proved that the difference causing the shadow's takeover isn't power level [gasp over..!!] but the actual body sizes. Then after some time the shadow becomes loyal to Moria. That's all there is to it.
Moria puts them under the same power so that what happened with Dogpen won't happen. Odz could probably be much stronger if given a stronger shadow to fit his body's strength. Looking at WB -
Really? Where was that?
Anyway, who's this "stephen" and why is he so reliable that no one else can ever make a correct conjecture but him? is it gasp! Oda's English name??
-
-
@$abZ:
Is that a fact?
16 characters
I'm pretty sure that was just a hyperbole.
pretty sure.
But, yeah, it's amazing the rate of how Stephen works, and according to Greg, his translations are pretty damn accurate. -
@$abZ:
Is that a fact?
It is acutally. Of course there´s surely better translators then him but nobody of those has ever touched One Piece to our knowledge.
Of course Stephen sumetimes even changes things that they don´t concur hundred percent with the wording in japanese BUT he does that only because of the intention to get the authors idea across. He himself said a while ago, that if it is required to change things a little to get the original idea across then he´ll gladly do it. And that´s actually what a good translator does. He doesn´t have to keep stuff word for word but transfers a general idea from one code of speech to another one. Of course lots of inside gags etc. get lost in the process but if you don´t want to lose anything the best thing is to learn japanese aswell as learning about inside jokes of the language and culture.
Outside of that, Stephen definitely is the best source for understanding One Piece in the situation we non native japanese speakers are in.
-
-
It is acutally. Of course there´s surely better translators then him but nobody of those has ever touched One Piece to our knowledge.
Of course Stephen sumetimes even changes things that they don´t concur hundred percent with the wording in japanese BUT he does that only because of the intention to get the authors idea across. He himself said a while ago, that if it is required to change things a little to get the original idea across then he´ll gladly do it. And that´s actually what a good translator does. He doesn´t have to keep stuff word for word but transfers a general idea from one code of speech to another one. Of course lots of inside gags etc. get lost in the process but if you don´t want to lose anything the best thing is to learn japanese aswell as learning about inside jokes of the language and culture.
Outside of that, Stephen definitely is the best source for understanding One Piece in the situation we non native japanese speakers are in.
Is that a fact, Ivotas?
-
As far as I´m concerned, yes!^^
-
I was thinking about Jet Storm. If Luffy actually pulls that, then even Odz will be smashed back to death by the possible Ten Thousand Punches of the atack. Hell, I even wonder how Oda will picturet Jet Storm. Somehow I think that it will end as something like a Meteor Storm, just like Jet Gattling ended looking like a real gattling gun.
But changing of subject, besides Luffy pulling an atack that would surely start the Deaths at hands of the Straw Hats, there's like no other way that I see Luffy winning against Odz in Hand-To-Hand Combat.
-
A real neat to draw Jet Storm would be for all the punches to seemingly appear at once, like a giant meteor of fists that's falling in unison.
-
I know who Stephen is.
But I challenge the opinion that his are the only gospel we as readers of one piece should adhere to.
Granted his works may be the best, but there's no telling that he's always right anyway. And even if he is a most accurate translator, does it suffice to say that we as readers cannot formulate and exert our own opinions and interpretations when it differs from his? If his opinions are convincing then sure of course we could take to them. But otherwise, unless it is the author himself, Eiichiro Oda, who says otherwise, i don't see a reason why I must allow myself to be influenced by another's words.
Anyway, I don't see any of Stephen's script that talks about shadow-body synchronising being only due to body size. If it exists, then it might have already been disproved. Luffy's and Oz's bodies have synchronised, and only within a short span of a few hours, maybe even less.
Anyway, back on topic, I think Luffy's Jet storm would be nice, but i was also thinking that Oda would probably be the type who likes to think up new attacks for Luffy to use against his opponents. So, even though I like the idea of Luffy going back into Gear Second, it might be Oda's intentions for things to happen otherwise.
And I DO HOPE AND PRAY THAT ODA GETS WELL SOON!!! GOD BLESS ODA-SENSEIII
-
Doesn't Oda finish his chapters 2-3 weeks before they appear in Jump? In any case, I hope he's gotten better.
-
seems theres no problem. if i read the spoiler topic right, they expect one piece in the next issue… right?
-
Really? I understood it as if it was an explenation of what´s the reason and saying that it will be the same for next week. But then again what do I know?
-
well i dont read japaneese… so im just makeing guesses here =P
darn it. i was hopeing it wasnt that.
-
The illness notice was just for that one issue (which leaked this week just passed) One Piece is back this week in WSJ #43 with Ch. 471.
-
All that I can say is WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That means Oda-Sensei is alright and isn't in critical condition!!! Thank goodness^^
-
Thanks for the news, BF. Looks like he just caught one of those 1-week bugs.
-
@Taz:
Thanks for the news, BF. Looks like he just caught one of those 1-week bugs.
Sounds like a stomach virus. Those suck, and last for about a week.
-
He got sick from all the logical bullcrap people try to push on his story.
-
We must organize assasination attempts onto Pipboy.
-
@Cyringohn:
He got sick from all the logical bullcrap people try to push on his story.
HERE'S AN EXCERPT FROM A UCLA PAPER, THIS MUST BE WHERE ODA-SENSEI GOT THE IDEA FOR ZORO'S FIRE ATTACK!
Oda, you genius, you!
-
when ever there isnt a chapter you guys go crazy lol
-
how is that any different from when there is a chapter?
-
Granted his works may be the best, but there's no telling that he's always right anyway.
Maybe very true. There are some translations we simply can't be sure of until there's an explanation/expansion upon them.
…..but......
With respect to the opinion at hand, it's something that was stated in black and white in the comic.
You're certainly free to form your own opinion, but it's within the realm of fanficton, as are all other theories, my own included, until proven right/wrong on the pages of the comic.
Ivotas,
Again, love the idea! It's the best I've heard, but I still don't buy that certain details are picked and chosen to remain while others vanish. I mean even if we lose our memory we can still ride a bike. But say we used to ride a bike while screaming, "Big Bad Beetleborgs!", we wouldn't do that.
Again, I totally am in the camp that says Oda picked several ideas that worked with the story and worked for comic effect but I'm not looking for an explanation from anyone but him on the topic. Until then it's best to just assume the shadow retains quirks but loses those that prove a threat to loyalty as per the pact....with some exceptions.
Oh, and boo to no chapter this week. Not having internet at home I didn't keep up with thread in that respect.
Not only that, but JUMP came out early on Friday since Monday was Respect for the Elderly Day and I was super psyched. Ho hum. On top of that it's a goddamn color cover and color spread next week. Christ, just when Ener was getting somewhere.
-
Not only that, but JUMP came out early on Friday since Monday was Respect for the Elderly Day and I was super psyched. Ho hum. On top of that it's a goddamn color cover and color spread next week. Christ, just when Ener was getting somewhere.
Was not there some kind of special involving Garp and Yamamoto kicking random asses of other Shounen Jump Characters while explaining the importance of the respect for eldery day? :D
-
checks Oh! Totally missed that! Geez!