another reason why Blackbeard is after Luffy….. it's a D trait....... when they fix on a target, they do it until they are killed or did what they come to do....
Chapter 441 "Duel on Barona Island" Discussion
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Ace and the other logias are pussies when their devil fruits become nothing.
Luffy had a lot of problems with human Lucci forcing him to go into Gear 2, I am sure that human Lucci could smash an Ace without the devil fruit.
The problem here is that a lot of people said that Shanks and Blackbeard are equaled because they got a fight several years ago, seeing how brutal is Blackbeard against his enemies is clear that the Redhair isn´t an ordinary pirate.
But this was several years ago, I believe that Shanks tested Ace strength and saw that he was no chance against Blackbeard, but he never stopped him, he prefered to use Whitebeard against Teach. How is possible that Shanks knows that Ace is strong? Easy, he has met him and made a fight.
The situation is simple, who are Shichibukai, Admirals and Yonkou are people with years and years of experience that can smash Luffy without using any devil fruit or atleast to give a good fight, the experience of this people is beyond Luffy and Ace.
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Some of you are missing the point here.
1. Blackbeard's power is the manipulation of Gravity.
Gravity is a force that accelerates any mass towards the central point of gravitation at a rate equal to the gravitational constant (g, which on earth is 9.8 meters/seconds² towards the core of the earth). Remember the 100x g training rooms from DBZ? Same idea.
So, Blackbeards power is simply to accelerate any object and most forms of energy towards his shroud of darkness.
For example: in his Black Hole technique, Blackbeard expands his darkness shroud through out the town and then ramps up the gravitational constant (g) of all mass in its vicinity. The buildings aren't meant to resist that kind of stress and crumble. In his Liberation technique, he reverses the (g) and all the buildings shoot up into the air.
After that, blackbeard draws back the shroud so that it is only covering his jacket, feet and hands.
2. The force behind Blackbeards punches is beyond the limit of physical strength.
Force equals mass x acceleration. A normal punch has a maximum force equal to the mass of the arm times the speed at which the punch can be thrown. The only way a regular fighter can increase the force of their punches is to work out and gain strength so as to throw a punch faster.
Blackbeard adds the gravitational acceleration (g)caused by his ability to each one of his punches. If he can get his (g) up to 100x earths gravity, then he's throwing SSJ level of punches. He's only limited by his control of the devil fruit.
3. Luffy would have a much easier time defeating blackbeard than any logia would. Rubber has the convenient ability of bouncing in gravity. You drop a rubber ball onto a hard surface and it manipulates the force of the gravity to repel itself back away from the source of gravity. So, luffy should be able to bounce off the shroud if he's can atleast get himself a little jump first.
Also, unlike with a logia, blackbeard's touch will not stop luffy from being rubber (think stretchy neck in arlong park.) This means that luffy will still be immune to most of blackbeards physical attacks and while he won't be able to stretch at will, should still be able to use gears and knock BB around. Honestly, we haven't seen BB have any techniques that would be useful against luffy yet.
4th. There was a time gap in this fight between Ace's Crossfire attack and the big fire sun vs dark globe finale while Van auger was talking. So, we should expect BB to have some more tricks in his sleave. This also means that Ace took more damage than just the gut punch and the neck strike. He's not that pathetic.
5th. Blackbeard had his darkness shroud on his jacket for most of the fight. This probably meant that he could gravitate Ace's crossfire attack towards his fire resistant jacket and thus avoid a direct fire attack at his chest. Ace didn't have a chance.
That's my peace. Be happy all.
Thank you for explaining blackbeard's power somewhat, because I didn't get it . But can he actualy suck things up and make them disappear? When he uses the gravity thing to suck things towards him, does it work for both matter and energy, and if so is it just lost in nothingness or can he bring the objects or energy back and use it somehow? Can he expand this "darkness" in a 3 dimensional area, in order to create a field of zero vision? Or are his powers all gravity oriented? This should've just been called a graviga/gravija fruit or something… it's a wierd DF, but then again, most are.
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There is something wrong with BB , he suffered when he got hit by the lance and the fireballs but he doesn't give a shit about taking the fire cross and the sun ball in the face ( seriously that sun ball looks wayyyyyyy powerful and deadlier than the little fireballs )
That can only mean 2 things :
1- BB took the first attacks on purpose in order to make ace thinking that he has a chance of winning .2-BB is ridiculously durable .
Anyway for the 1st time we have seen an entire fight devoted to 2 top tier fighters of the OP world , that's a real big event .
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Probably, the reason why the fire lance connected at Blackbeard was because he was unprepared for the attack. As can be clearly seen, his hand was raised up in the air preparing for the neck chop when Ace counter-attacked. As for the cross-attack-thingy, Blackbeard already saw the attack coming and was prepared for it. The same goes for the firefly-thingy… he didn't see the attack coming and so it connected. I think he can absorb attacks, but only if he is prepared for it.
As for the gravity-whatever, everyone should realize that gravity is just another form of magnetism. Try to find something that counters magnetism and there's your weakness for Blackbeard. That's the theory anyway.
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That chapter was 200% win.
I loved the last panel.
The whole idea sort of reminded me of World War I, when a small incident between two countries exploded into a huge war.
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I am now forming the Ace Is Dead Society (AIDS). Anybody who wants to join can PM me.
Q: Anybody think that Van Auger and the crew are "parting ways" with Blackbeard?? Or was he talking about Ace? -
I honestly don't think that killing Portgas D. Ace or even capturing him would be something that would get Whitebeard into the Shichibukai.
If anything, it would make the World Government want to distance themselves from Teach, because Whitebeard's basically going to be going on a rampage to stop the murderer/captor of Ace, and if Teach was affiliated with WG then he'd have reason to actively assault them, Shanks would too, as would Dragon (though Dragon plans it already), basically if Teach becomes Shichibukai for this I imagine Dragon coming up to Whitebeard and Shanks and forming alliances with them, making his revolution way, way more serious.
Luffy still seems like the best candidate for him to get into the Shichibukai, I think that's the reason that Blackbeard offered to have Ace in his crew.
Do you honestly think the WG wouldn't seize the chance to weaken Whitebeard's armada out of fear of retaliation? This paints them as far weaker and more cowardly than what I think they really are.
You're overestimating Whitebeard as well. If he were to attack Marine headquarters I highly doubt he'd come out alive and even if he did it'd be at such a cost that taking back Ace would be a Pyrrhic victory.
Regarding Shanks and Dragon: the last time we saw Shanks he was actually FIGHTING with Whitebeard, an alliance seems highly unlikely for the moment. As for Dragon and the Revolutionaries, they're not one of the great powers and would make no difference whatsoever if they gave their support to Whitebeard.
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Regarding Shanks and Dragon: the last time we saw Shanks he was actually FIGHTING with Whitebeard, an alliance seems highly unlikely for the moment. As for Dragon and the Revolutionaries, they're not one of the great powers and would make no difference whatsoever if they gave their support to Whitebeard.
Sorry, my inside fanboy must disagree with this . Dragon and his revolutionarys, they are strong. Dragon too. I think that he is, let's say, in Shichibukais level. I don't have any evidence to proove that, of course.
And obviosly they are not one of the great powers. They are those powers that is trying to destroy it. -
The guys are busy attacking kingdoms in the 4 Blues for crying out loud. I highly doubt any of them are powerhouses of the OP world, maybe not even Dragon. Remember what the King said during Chopper's flashback in vol 17? Dragon is dangerous because of his ideas.
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BLARGH!
Blackbeard's power SO CHEAP!!!
Eneru-sama was cool on the front cover, though.
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Wow. That was insanely cool, the way the darkness is drawn is simply awesome. It's nice to see that Ace at least stood up to Teach for a little while. And Teach's power is probably the most powerful we've seen by itself, together with D strength and endurance, Teach is becoming one of the strongest characters yet.
Also, that thing where he sucked up the town was fantacularly awesome.
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The guys are busy attacking kingdoms in the 4 Blues for crying out loud. I highly doubt any of them are powerhouses of the OP world, maybe not even Dragon. Remember what the King said during Chopper's flashback in vol 17? Dragon is dangerous because of his ideas.
Oh c'mon! Dragon has genes from Garp. Dude who cornered Pirate King many times. And his son is Luffy. Who is real power house too.
It is safe to say that he is powerful. Plus he have a huge army standing behind him. He is real threat to the WG.I hope that I don't sound WHITEBEARD…
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Dragon is dangerous because of his ideas.
That's what I said in one of those "What is Dragon's Ability" threads. I was effectively ignored.
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Ace made one awesome spirit bomb. Can't wait till the next chapter.
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That is, IF BB directs/accelerates Luffy to his face. Another power I have seen that BB uses is that black column thingy that he uses to suck stuff. If he uses that to absorb Luffy's punches instead, I have a hard time visioning their fight.
Same here. Blackbeard's most definitely got tricks than we've seen him use so far.
One good question is: what would contact with his darkness shroud cause? Would that have the same effect as Blackbeard grabbing someone? Or could it just compress all the mass in their body to the size of a grain of sand? Or would it be a more diffuse gravitational force and squash someone into a pancake? I like the pancake idea because I could imagine blackbeard's surpise after luffy bounces back from pancake shape.
@dinty: my take on the will of D is more along the lines of hereditary monomaniacal idealism/ insane physical strength. Every D we have met is an idealist that believes in one thing so strongly they would risk everything to protect it: Saul & True Justice, Ace & whitebeard as pirate king, luffy to become PK, Blackbeard to become the strongest, Dragon & liberty from WG, Saul & well…not shown yet.
Any of the D would happily die for their cause of choice and none would ever be capable of abandoning their goal for anything short of death. The drama comes about when the ideals are opposing because it is not just a conflict of men but a conflict of dreams.
@ascalon: Gravity doesn't really absorb anything, it just compresses it. If you take all the matter in the universe and remove all the space between the atomic particles you're left with a ball the size of an apple.
Many forms of energy have a basic element of matter or require matter as a conduit for transmission. The basic unit of light is a subatomic particle with wave like elements (or vice versa) called a photon. Photons are affected by gravity and when near black hole (which is basically a gravitational whirlpool) will be sucked towards the black hole and compressed along with all the other matter in the area. Lightening requires a conduit of air that has contact with the earth. Fire requires oxygen to burn.
The nonsensical part of blackbeards power is why it doesn't create a vacuum, suck up all the air, and make everone explode (including BB) due to the lack of air pressure like a body thrown out of a spaceship.
Oh, and also, blackbeards ability to suck out devil fruit energy can be explained by assuming that there is a photon like particle/wave associated with DF energy. It doesn't really make sense, but we all know oda didn't study very much in highschool.
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Hey guys, Stephen has translated this chapter. Read:
[The "Duel of Banaro Island" on the Grand Line.]
[This battle between two pirates]
[Would be labeled the trigger]
[that set off an [B]enormous, unforgettable event in the future.]Now that is cool. War is coming. Or even worse.
Thanks Stephen!
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Dragon is dangerous because of his ideas.
I really liked Spandam because was a man with power and no
mega penisridiculous physical strength to fall back on. -
Just a quick observation.
There were 2 noticable hits in the current chapter that BB landed. They were:
1. Right punch - His 1st attack. He grabbed Ace first and then punched him in the gut/stomach, sending him back.
2. Chop on the neck - This was his next attack after Ace used that double spear thingy on his chest.
I just noticed that there was no panel depicting BB grabbing Ace prior to chopping him on the neck.
This leads me to believe the following:
-BB is "being his element" all the time. His "DF negation powers" are automatically turned on ALL THE TIME (following what I have noticed), but his "Black Hole Vortex" power is another thing that needs to be invoked/activated.
-All he needs to do is for some unsuspecting logia users to allow him to come near first and land a hit since he does not really need to grab the opponent first in order to hit them.
-If in case there are smart logias who would want to play keep-away, the "Black Hole Vortex" ability comes in and forces them to fight BB in close-range.
-BB said in the translation that there are some things he can suck up. He did not specifically say what, but I interpreted it as "Well, I can suck up stuff, but not all of it." This leads me to believe that there are certain "rules" for his Vortex Ability which would probably be, (based from observation), he can suck up inanimate objects but not living objects. I am not 100% sure of this theory, but the wierd thing is, if he can suck up human beings in his Vortex, why didn't he just suck Ace up in that Black Pillar? If we remember correctly, when he activated the Vortex ability, he propelled Ace to him and opted to grab him instead of just sucking him up.
-Fire is not a living thing, so, it can be sucked up. However, like I said, BB needs to activate the Vortex ability first before he can suck stuff up. Some people already explained that the reason why he got hit by the Fire Lance and the Fire Firefly attacks were because he was unprepared. I believe this. He shrugged off the Fire Cross attack after eating Ace's Lance and after Van Auger's dialogue, it was shown that BB was not having a hard time with Ace at all. (Which makes me wonder what the hell is the point of Ace in using the big-ass Fire Ball attack in the 1st place - Maybe it's just Oda wanting to show us what Ace's most powerful attack is before he loses/gets killed off)
Now, given the above scenario…if indeed BB can't suck up human beings in his Vortex, then Luffy still has a shot against him. If you notice the pattern that Luffy has been "developing", he's just utilizing his rubber abilities to augment his range (most of the time) and apply more force/speed to his attacks. HIs strength has always been there. True, the rubber abilities add so much to his strength, but minus the Gomu-Gomu fruit, I believe he can still fight against some strong opponents. His latest fight against the CP9 showed him (and us as well) that he has a lot to learn in terms of being a physical fighter because he depended so much on his DF ability just to emulate the Rokushiki techniques.
Now I finally see boiga's point. If it is indeed true that BB can't suck up human beings, then Black Hole Vortex + Luffy accelerating to BB with a Gear 2 Bazooka = pain for BB. BB negating Luffy's rubber properties would mean jack shit since Luffy has range on his side and his attacks will be amplified by the acceleration BB produces. Therefore, Luffy is still THE perfect match against BB. (As well as prolly CP9 zoans).
Well of course, all of this theorizing goes to shit if BB can indeed suck up human beings, but it's worth a shot, IMO.
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@AD-HD:
Hey guys, Stephen has translated this chapter. Read:
Now that is cool. War is coming. Or even worse.
Thanks Stephen!
The sea will turn red. Thunder will be heard but no clouds will be seen. The waves will restlessly move without the sign of wind. The sky will turn dark as the battle that will forever change history is taking place. Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa…..................Okay, I'm done now.....
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I like the pancake idea because I could imagine blackbeard's surpise after luffy bounces back from pancake shape.
The pancake idea is better for visual jokes too. I imagine we'll see some Chuck Jones style "accordian" bounces in the Luffy/BB encounter (just like when Wile E Coyote encounters a badly aimed Acme anvil).
http://www.pioneernet.net/curtis/wile_e/
Every D we have met is an idealist that believes in one thing so strongly they would risk everything to protect it … Any of the D would happily die for their cause of choice and none would ever be capable of abandoning their goal. The drama comes about when the ideals are opposing because it is not just a conflict of men but a conflict of dreams.
Thanks! Makes sense. And that would go a long way towards explaining why Ace and Luffy can cheerfully agree (well, assuming we can count "That Cheesy Smile" as cheerful) that since neither one is willing to back down on their dream, they'll have to fight each other down the Line.
[Oh, speaking of "that Cheesy Smile" : I found another example – it's on the cover of volume 23, and Vivi is the one smiling it this time. Makes sense, because her world is falling apart at that point, but she's trying not to bring everyone down with her despair. Or something like that]
It doesn't really make sense, but we all know oda didn't study very much in highschool.
Which is also why he occasionally resorts to cheats like "we have no idea how it works but …" when 'explaining' Foxy's DF power. :)
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Great post, Dinty!
You know why I liked this battle?
because it was clear right at the beginning that Ace is gonna lost. And I think that he knowed that too. Someway.
But still, he didn't give up. He fighted to very end. To the death.
Also, this sentence was cool:Ace: …there's no use being born a man if you cave in before absolute might.
And if there's one thing I never do, it's leave regret behind!!! Got that, you moron?!…Yeah, I got little fanboyish.
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Ace was just great… Now he is on top with Zoro...
Even if he lost... his movey were way better... I can't wait to see it animated... this fireball... holy crap... Son Goku's spirit bomg was a piece of shit against that...
Look what others Logias can do... Eneru was able to do that bomb... but he needed time, his maxim and it was slow as hell... Ace put it out in seconds...
EDIT
Oda should be a producer in Hollywood... hell he would get every Oscar!!! -
What good do those do agains gravity though?
Nothing at all. But if Blackbeard has the devil inside him a good exorcist would be good right now…
Enlighten me….please point me any chapter that shows your knowledge or that defends this claim. We don't even know what Kuma's power is yet!
That's why Kuma would be the best. He has the Bible with him. He'll use his holiness to attack him.
Basically that was really really really bad jokes.
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Ace was just great… Now he is on top with Zoro...
Even if he lost... his movey were way better... I can't wait to see it animated... this fireball... holy crap... Son Goku's spirit bomg was a piece of shit against that...
Look what others Logias can do... Eneru was able to do that bomb... but he needed time, his maxim and it was slow as hell... Ace put it out in seconds...
EDIT
Oda should be a producer in Hollywood... hell he would get every Oscar!!!Erm, Enels bomb was about 50 times bigger then what Ace made.
Falcore
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I always thought about a gravity devil fruit, but I love how Oda combined it with darkness, (my version was sorta like Magento's power a lil bit). And I really dont think Ace is dead…yet. He might have been saved by someone or something or BB could be sparing his life.
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i don't see how luffy would be able to fight black beard… just imagine if black beard touched him while luffy was in gear 3... POP... that would be some nasty crap...
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Luffy vs Teach would certainly be interesting. Now I'ma pose a question: Since BB absorbs everything, what would happen if sea stone got into his void?
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@Impel:
Luffy vs Teach would certainly be interesting. Now I'ma pose a question: Since BB absorbs everything, what would happen if sea stone got into his void?
well, he can throw out things he's absorbed… but since he has the stone in him, i'm gonna guess he can't do that, so he'll lose his powers forever.
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Well, I think I just figured out how to beat Blackbeard. I am a speculation god! Worship me! WORSHIP ME!
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sea stone or water for that matter would kill him or he be suck up im his own void
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It wouldn't kill him, but it'd make him a regular killable human.
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One problem with the seastone idea…there's a possibility that the stuff that goes inside the void goes inside him. Plus even if it does it'll probably just spit everything out.
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Or it might stop the void itself.
BTW, first post with new signature. -
@Impel:
Luffy vs Teach would certainly be interesting. Now I'ma pose a question: Since BB absorbs everything, what would happen if sea stone got into his void?
oh wow, i could actually see that happening in the manga. Like usopp sniping a piece of seastone right into blackbeard's black hole (oh wow that was pretty much a terrible innuendo), right as he's sucking in luffy for a final blow or something
you win three internets
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I could've sworn I saw him sucking up water with his power, so if that didn't affect him, seastone wouldn't, at least not in that sense.
I just had a freakish vision of Davy Jones appearing, deciding that Blackbeard is not fit to be a D or Pirate King, and taking him under the sea.
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Just wanted to comment luffy will have a better chance against BB just b/c luffy is rubber does not make him stronger, he is natural strong. Remember his fight with bellamy. that was a natural punch not a DF punch. The fight with BB will turn out in the end to be grudge match where they fight in close proxmity since luffy cant escape the vortex. and another not BB is Luffy destined enemy cuz he is darkness the destory of dreams and luffy is all about hope and dreams and BB is the only one that can elminate that since he is lit darkness
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..Ace might not be dead..:cwy:
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Errr…maybe im missing something here. Does anyone besides me think this darkness fruit is the biggest dissapointment concerning devil fruits? Everyones acting as if blackbeards invincible and we have to rely on the old "lets throw a seastone at him" trick. Please...sure he has offensive power but the lack of any defense whatsoever i would say puts him below any of the strawhats. Hell theoretically a plain pistol could kill him. Whats he gonna do, suck it in some more? Whats he gonna do against zoro who prtty much can kill anything in one hit? People are acting like theres a big mystery to beating him. Its very simple guys...hit him and make the hit count. Hes got no defense.
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Errr…maybe im missing something here. Does anyone besides me think this darkness fruit is the biggest dissapointment concerning devil fruits? Everyones acting as if blackbeards invincible and we have to rely on the old "lets throw a seastone at him" trick. Please...sure he has offensive power but the lack of any defense whatsoever i would say puts him below any of the strawhats. Hell theoretically a plain pistol could kill him. Whats he gonna do, suck it in some more? Whats he gonna do against zoro who prtty much can kill anything in one hit? People are acting like theres a big mystery to beating him. Its very simple guys...hit him and make the hit count. Hes got no defense.
Well the thing is Blackbeard make that DF powerful. Not the DF power make him powerful.
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Errr…maybe im missing something here. Does anyone besides me think this darkness fruit is the biggest dissapointment concerning devil fruits? Everyones acting as if blackbeards invincible and we have to rely on the old "lets throw a seastone at him" trick. Please...sure he has offensive power but the lack of any defense whatsoever i would say puts him below any of the strawhats. Hell theoretically a plain pistol could kill him. Whats he gonna do, suck it in some more? Whats he gonna do against zoro who prtty much can kill anything in one hit? People are acting like theres a big mystery to beating him. Its very simple guys...hit him and make the hit count. Hes got no defense.
Ummm…then why was he able to take all those fire blasts from Ace? He has probably better defense than offense and that's why he's perfect for this fruit.
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I don't want Luffy to beat BB… I always wanted it to be Ace, if not maybe WB or Shanks.. but not luffy
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Anyone can toughen themselves up to be tough and take hits. Anyone. Zoro does it, sanji does it, luffy does it. What im sayin is everyone is treatin him as if hes invincible whereas i see a very VERY apparent weakness.
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you never know Ace might still be alive, he might have even won.. maybe that was all there is to BB.. just someone to fill up some space, to show how the yami fuit was defeated or how powerful Ace really is.
being optimistic -
Anyone can toughen themselves up to be tough and take hits. Anyone. Zoro does it, sanji does it, luffy does it. What im sayin is everyone is treatin him as if hes invincible whereas i see a very VERY apparent weakness.
Yes he does but even with that weakness Blackbeard's crazy defense makes up for that. And it'll probably take a lot of time to tire him out while avoiding his attack of the Black Hole.
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Well as good as Ace is, I still think with the way luffy, zoro, sanji, etc is heading, theyll dispatch him rather easily. I mean you have to remember, luffy (and his crew at that) just defeated people who specifically built their bodies for defense (lucci, kaki, etc.). Anyways my point is unlike other fruits we are already presented with a glaring weakness.
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That was awesome. It played out very much how I thought. Ace needs to work on his stamina.
As for BB's power and how to counter it, the arguement: "Anything can kill him" is stupid. The man was burned at least 5 times and got up ready for more. Also, even if you move fast and try to kill him in one strike, he'll rape you before you get close. Thats why they call it "gravity".
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Look at it this way. There are two types of enemies in manga. Enemies who have no APPARENT weakness and who you have to find out how to defeat him before you can actually do it, such as croc. Then theres another kind of enemy who is just plain stronger than you. I dont know about you but its a lot easier for someone in a manga to just become stronger than someone. Sure Blackbeards tough, im not arguing that. What im saying is its a simple matter of luffy, zoro, etc becoming strong enuf, something theyve done quite well till now.
Another thing we should consider is one aspect of his power that may be its undoing. He sucks in things right? Well this "sucking" may help to enhance any attacks done to blackbeard. increase speed and therefore power of any punch, kick, slash, etc. just putting it out there
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Another thing we should consider is one aspect of his power that may be its undoing. He sucks in things right? Well this "sucking" may help to enhance any attacks done to blackbeard. increase speed and therefore power of any punch, kick, slash, etc. just putting it out there
The same goes for BB the "sucking" improves the power of his punch also.
Its like throwing an egg at a brick wall.
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Look at it this way. There are two types of enemies in manga. Enemies who have no APPARENT weakness and who you have to find out how to defeat him before you can actually do it, such as croc. Then theres another kind of enemy who is just plain stronger than you. I dont know about you but its a lot easier for someone in a manga to just become stronger than someone. Sure Blackbeards tough, im not arguing that. What im saying is its a simple matter of luffy, zoro, etc becoming strong enuf, something theyve done quite well till now.
QFT. Eneru and Croc would probably fall under those with no APPARENT weakness.
Lucci and probably Blackbeard will go under those that are stronger. And although Luffy has been training Oda wouldn't have mentioned Luffy never won once against Ace unless he was trying to prove Blackbeard is a force to be reckon with.