If Yamato leaves I'd hope we'd get at least a scene showing the people of Wano accepting her despite being Kaidos child. The entire reason why Wano is in this mess in the first place is because of how the Kurozumi clan has been treated for the ill deeds of one single member of the family. I'd really like to see it addressed that this way of thinking doesn't benefit anyone. Whether Yamato stays or leaves.
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)
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If Yamato leaves I'd hope we'd get at least a scene showing the people of Wano accepting her despite being Kaidos child. The entire reason why Wano is in this mess in the first place is because of how the Kurozumi clan has been treated for the ill deeds of one single member of the family. I'd really like to see it addressed that this way of thinking doesn't benefit anyone. Whether Yamato stays or leaves.
What I think we will see:
- Yamato is finally revealed to everyone: the samurai, the citizens, the Straw Hats. THe later are just curious, but the former two are kinda fearful and doubt him. Then Momonosuke steps in and call Yamato his "brother", naming him Kouzuki Yamato.
- Cut to epilogue stuff, small scenes of Yamato interacting with other character, and finally having friends.
- Luffy will probably approach Yamato and ask him if he still wants to come onboard. This is likely a chapter cliffhanger
- Then we have a Yamato-focused chapter with a small flashback and his ultimate decision, whatever it will be.
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@Daz:
Out of curiosity, are the people who are confident that Yamatos choice is obvious also of the opinion that there will be no moment where Yamato "chooses" for good at all? I mean even if you feel the outcome is given, it'd be a narrative waste methinks to not go for a "Yamato: Maybe I should stay and help out Wano…? --> Momonosuke: Naw you should totally go adventure -->Yamato: Yaaay!" beat. Otherwise its just "I want to leave" -->80 chapters later "As I said, I want to leave.". Its just very dramatically flat is what I'm saying, and there are avenues for adding drama even if Yamato ultimately leaves.
Just trying to pre-emptively prevent the most tiresome discourse if Yamato does make a choice - you know,
"see Yamato was ultimately conflicted about staying or leaving"
"Actually we never argued there wouldn't be a choice!"
"You did though!"
"Did not"
And so onSpeaking for myself, I think Yamato made his choice long ago. One way or another, he intends to go out to sea when all is said and done. He plans to do so by joining Luffy, and I fully expect that's how things will pan out, but I think Yams would be leaving even if that weren't an option.
All of the things supposedly tying him to Wano are bound up in Momonosuke's character arc, and more specifically, in the fact that Momo has yet to fully become the man he needs to be so that he can lead his people as Shogun. Because Momo isn't ready, Yamato needs to stay - that is the crux of the argument. But that ignores the fact that we are clearly watching Momonosuke's character arc playing out before our eyes. He's not ready yet, but he's getting there, and assuming that the Wano arc will somehow end without Momo having fully come into his own flies in the face of even a basic understanding of the narrative.
Once Momonosuke's character arc is complete, the "need" for Yamato to stay evaporates. Which brings us back to the question of what Yamato wants, and on that point he has been quite consistent - he wants to go out to sea.
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What I think we will see:
- Yamato is finally revealed to everyone: the samurai, the citizens, the Straw Hats. THe later are just curious, but the former two are kinda fearful and doubt him. Then Momonosuke steps in and call Yamato his "brother", naming him Kouzuki Yamato.
- Cut to epilogue stuff, small scenes of Yamato interacting with other character, and finally having friends.
- Luffy will probably approach Yamato and ask him if he still wants to come onboard. This is likely a chapter cliffhanger
- Then we have a Yamato-focused chapter with a small flashback and his ultimate decision, whatever it will be.
I kinda like this one.
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This is just in general but I don't get why "helping Wano" should be limited to Yamato remaining in Wano? If anything, Yamato leaving with the Straw Hat Pirates to assist them in their journey is actually the BEST way Yamato can HELP Wano.
Wano's border will not remain closed after this arc and the nations story will not be contained within the regional confines of the land. Wano's story relevance is poised to expand to the whole One Piece world as Momonosuke becomes the Shogun and begins to challenge the World Government as a competing force that is positioned to guide the world to the DAWN.
Yamato is an incredibly valuable asset intentionally constructed by Oda to be a character aligned with the story of Joy Boy. Yamato importance isn't mainly derived from their strength but the knowledge they possess and how Luffy and the Straw Hat Pirates fit into the unfulfilled promise and will of Joy Boy (none of the other current Straw Hat Pirates realise this). As any effective leader and/or manager knows, you want to assign your assets/staff to positions where you can get the most value from. Momonosuke after reading Oden's Journal and speaking with Zunesha recognises the importance he serves and of the role Joy Boy potentially played in history. Momonosuke may not yet understand the relevance of everything but knows that Wano would be in danger if the borders are opened and that there are enemies waiting for them in the outside world. Momonosuke may doubt opening the Wano borders now but he will eventually come to embrace what Oden set in motion and order Wano's borders to be opened. When he makes that decision, Momonosuke would be aware that he is opening up his nation to outside dangers. But at the same time, he is also aware of Joy Boy and the potential of stopping those that will be targeting Wano. Through Momonosuke's own experiences with Luffy and through Yamato, Momonosuke will realise that Luffy is the one to inherit Joy Boy's will and consequently will recognise that the best chance Wano has at stopping the enemies targeting them is to assist Luffy in fulfilling what Joy Boy (and Roger and Oden) were unable to complete. This is where Yamato comes in. After all the interactions Momonosuke has had with Yamato, he intimately understands how resolved Yamato is and how valuable Yamato would be to the Straw Hat Pirates AND in protecting Wano (not by staying in Wano but by leaving).
Momonosuke won't be requesting Yamato to stay in Wano, he would be encouraging Yamato to leave with the Straw Hat Pirates to give Wano the BEST chance at surviving and overcoming the upcoming crisis that may arise once Wano's borders are opened. Momonosuke after traveling with the Straw Hat Pirates for as long as he did, he understands their journey and after interacting with Yamato for as much as he has during this arc, he has come to understand Yamato. All this build is for a specific reason in regards to Momonosuke's story (the most important secondary character in the New World). I have said this several times before, but Momonosuke will not be Yamato's "Sukiyaki". After reading Oden's journal, Momonosuke would have realised how constricted and imprisoned Oden felt because of the nation's inability (mainly his father) to assist him to leave. Oden's decision to leave Wano is effectively the reason the world will be saved from the whims of the corrupt World Government and Tenryuubito. Momonosuke himself was a consequence of Oden's decision. He was born at sea and is one of the most accomplished Pirates in the One Piece universe at only the age of 8 - Momonosuke has sailed aboard Whitebeard's ship, he has sailed aboard the Pirate Kings ship and he has sailed aboard the future Pirate Kings ship. No other character can have said to have achieved what Momonosuke has (unless they are a time traveler or Hiyori decides to hitch a ride aboard the Thousand Sunny). Momonosuke truly is a character second to none as his name suggest and his actions will remain consistent to that. He will not exist in the shadows of previous Shogun. Rather than contain people within Wano, he will open the nation up and encourage bonds with other nations/villages to be formed and enhanced (Zou, Elbaf, Alabasta, Fish-Man Island, Dressrosa, Green Bit, Germa Kingdom, Amazon Lily, Sphinx, Kano Country, Shimotsuki Village, Revolutionary Army, etc). Wano's story going forward isn't to turtle. It is to proactively assist the one who has inherited Joy Boy's unfulfilled will. And in order to pursue such a story, Momonosuke will realise that the best course of action is for Yamato to leave Wano and travel aboard the Thousand Sunny with Luffy (the current ages Joy Boy).
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There's the whole "humans will never accept you" that needs to be addressed. Since we know Wanoeses are what they are, at the very least Momo's inner circle has to welcome Yamato as their peer inorder to have a proper catharsis.
The point is definitely there and has to be addressed, but leaving and going to Luagh Tale has to be the ultimate reward for Yamato.I mean, situations like the humans attacking Chopper for being a monster never really lead to all the Drum Island humans accepting and liking Chopper for who he is or anything like that. It would be nice of all the Wano people accepted Yamato right off the bat, but I think the bigger thing for her is that the Straw Hats would be the ones to accept her more quickly than the others since the Straw Hats in general have come to be seen as this sort of group where you’re ready to be accepted even if the whole world hates you, know what I mean?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Daz:
Out of curiosity, are the people who are confident that Yamatos choice is obvious also of the opinion that there will be no moment where Yamato "chooses" for good at all? I mean even if you feel the outcome is given, it'd be a narrative waste methinks to not go for a "Yamato: Maybe I should stay and help out Wano…? --> Momonosuke: Naw you should totally go adventure -->Yamato: Yaaay!" beat. Otherwise its just "I want to leave" -->80 chapters later "As I said, I want to leave.". Its just very dramatically flat is what I'm saying, and there are avenues for adding drama even if Yamato ultimately leaves.
Just trying to pre-emptively prevent the most tiresome discourse if Yamato does make a choice - you know,
"see Yamato was ultimately conflicted about staying or leaving"
"Actually we never argued there wouldn't be a choice!"
"You did though!"
"Did not"
And so onShe is always free to choose since she’s an adult with free will, and I can’t really see the narrative forcing her to make that sort of choice against her will. It’s not like she can’t leave without stuff being added on though. Part of the reason Jinbe left Fish-Man Island for Luffy even when keeping in mind his dedication to the island was how he felt Luffy would somehow help him achieve his dream of friendly Fish-Man/human relations. So similarly, when Yamato leaves, she won’t just be leaving for herself, but for the sake of Momo and his peers too in discovering Wano-relevant things like the full context behind Oden’s goals and Joy Boy.
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Speaking for myself, I think Yamato made his choice long ago. One way or another, he intends to go out to sea when all is said and done. He plans to do so by joining Luffy, and I fully expect that's how things will pan out, but I think Yams would be leaving even if that weren't an option.
All of the things supposedly tying him to Wano are bound up in Momonosuke's character arc, and more specifically, in the fact that Momo has yet to fully become the man he needs to be so that he can lead his people as Shogun. Because Momo isn't ready, Yamato needs to stay - that is the crux of the argument. But that ignores the fact that we are clearly watching Momonosuke's character arc playing out before our eyes. He's not ready yet, but he's getting there, and assuming that the Wano arc will somehow end without Momo having fully come into his own flies in the face of even a basic understanding of the narrative.
Once Momonosuke's character arc is complete, the "need" for Yamato to stay evaporates. Which brings us back to the question of what Yamato wants, and on that point he has been quite consistent - he wants to go out to sea.
She also wants to be Oden (which goes so far as to claim to Oden's child that she is his father). And Oden already travelled the seas. He came back to Wano to stay and open its boarders. Ergo Yamato is inconsistent. ;P
! I'm actually joking with this one ;)
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There's a clearly solution to the matter of Yamato bonding with Momo: both are joining at the end of the arc.
no, i don't really believe that
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There's a clearly solution to the matter of Yamato bonding with Momo: both are joining at the end of the arc.
no, i don't really believe that
I know you believe that, but in general, I don't think there's any issue with Yamato between Momo and the Straw Hats unless I understand her to be conflicted, like with Vivi. lol
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Jinbe joined just in time. Too many childish crewmates onboard. If there are going to be more, Nami needs help.
The WG just going by Bunny Mink or something of that nature would possibly be consistent with the Totland meme. They can't wrap their minds around Bepo and Chopper being more than 1000 anyway.
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Lol Carrot would make a fun addition to the crew, and if she hadn’t been ignored for so long and kept getting the same amount of interactions with the crew as she was before Wano, I’d be completely on board
But alas Wano hasn’t been kind to her, she no longer seems like a potential candidate to me, but who knows maybe Oda will surprise us
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Lol Carrot would make a fun addition to the crew, and if she hadn’t been ignored for so long and kept getting the same amount of interactions with the crew as she was before Wano, I’d be completely on board
But alas Wano hasn’t been kind to her, she no longer seems like a potential candidate to me, but who knows maybe Oda will surprise us
Carrot was amazing with the crew during Wholecake Island. Ever since she appeared on board the Sunny she just felt like a Strawhat Pirate which is why many of us, me included took her for a very obvious choice as a Strawhat. But with Wano however it just feels like Oda trying to step back with all of that. It's one thing to give a character less focus than in the previous arc. But with Carrot in Wano it feels like Oda is actually trying to sideline her as if he feels like he's given her too much focus previously. Not only is he taking her away from the Strawhats in the group spread, but then she gets a partner to take on Perospero, which still doesn't end up being enough as both Carrot and Wanda lost and needed the cat to take over.
Personally I would still like to see Carrot join. But Wano just seems like Oda saying "sorry, but I changed my mind" with her.
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Lol Carrot would make a fun addition to the crew, and if she hadn’t been ignored for so long and kept getting the same amount of interactions with the crew as she was before Wano, I’d be completely on board
But alas Wano hasn’t been kind to her, she no longer seems like a potential candidate to me, but who knows maybe Oda will surprise us
I'm surprised I haven't seen a lot of posts suggesting Kinemon join despite having appeared years before Carrot. He shared a lot of moments with Luffy both in terms of comedy and helping him out in the plot, including sharing a dramatic scene on the roof where he walks past two Emperors before holding him on the ground while he's bleeding and crying only to then reassure him that he'll carry Wano on his shoulders, as well as being one of the most frequently appearing characters in the Wano arc in general. I suppose the scene where Luffy says he wanted to recruit Kinemon's legs fueled that idea more early on too. lol
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Carrot was amazing with the crew during Wholecake Island. Ever since she appeared on board the Sunny she just felt like a Strawhat Pirate which is why many of us, me included took her for a very obvious choice as a Strawhat. But with Wano however it just feels like Oda trying to step back with all of that. It's one thing to give a character less focus than in the previous arc. But with Carrot in Wano it feels like Oda is actually trying to sideline her as if he feels like he's given her too much focus previously. Not only is he taking her away from the Strawhats in the group spread, but then she gets a partner to take on Perospero, which still doesn't end up being enough as both Carrot and Wanda lost and needed the cat to take over.
Personally I would still like to see Carrot join. But Wano just seems like Oda saying "sorry, but I changed my mind" with her.
I can see why people would have thought she would join in Whole Cake Island, it made sense, but if Oda does intend to have her join after Wano he really really really dropped the ball on this one
I'm surprised I haven't seen a lot of posts suggesting Kinemon join despite having appeared years before Carrot. He shared a lot of moments with Luffy both in terms of comedy and helping him out in the plot, including sharing a dramatic scene on the roof where he walks past two Emperors before holding him on the ground while he's bleeding and crying only to then reassure him that he'll carry Wano on his shoulders, as well as being one of the most frequently appearing characters in the Wano arc in general. I suppose the scene where Luffy says he wanted to recruit Kinemon's legs fueled that idea more early on too. lol
He also has a 2.9 devil fruit
If Kinemon was a pretty girl we’d have people declaring he’d join right now, that’s just how this thread works
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He also has a 2.9 devil fruit
If Kinemon was a pretty girl we’d have people declaring he’d join right now, that’s just how this thread works
There are plenty of ladies in the arc I view as pretty, but don't care nor speculate being on the crew, like Hiyori, Ulti, and Black Maria. I have suspected that if an emotionally connecting scene like this happened with Carrot, a lot more people would be rallying up to see her join. I can't prove that though.
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Kinemon possibly passing the lead retainer duty to Yamato, so he can finally grab Tsuru and get on the Sunny
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There's the whole "humans will never accept you" that needs to be addressed.
Does it really have to be addressed, though? Is there any example of someone actually not accepting Yamato due to being Kaido's child? On the other hand, back when thrown into that cave with the starving samurai, Yamato got basically instantly accepted by them. The same with Ace.
Yamato's problem actually never was to not get accepted. Instead the issue always was that Kaido just flat out murdered everyone who did so and came too close. That whole plot point just is executed so terribly, it lacks any emotional meat. And what a coincidence that Kaido was not along when Ace appeared.
I guess it will get addressed, but I really wouldn't mind at all, if it gets dropped completely.
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Does it really have to be addressed, though? Is there any example of someone actually not accepting Yamato due to being Kaido's child? On the other hand, back when thrown into that cave with the starving samurai, Yamato got basically instantly accepted by them. The same with Ace.
In Wano it is very important to be addressed IMO. As I said in a previous post, this entire situation Wano is in, started because of how the Kurozumi clan got treated simple for being related to a traitor. So it's not only about Yamato. It's about Wano putting their own mistakes of the past behind them and changing their ways. Opening the borders is one thing. But stopping to blame the entire family for one person's wrongdoings is something else entirely. It would do go for them to change their ways on that. An acceptance of Yamato would be the perfect opportunity for that. Whether she stays in Wano or leaves with the Strawhats doesn't make a difference for that.
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like Oda saying "sorry, but I changed my mind" with her.
Since they do have certain similarities, white furriness, huge interest in having adventures, been living isolated for a long time. I genuinely came to believe that Carrot was like a prototype of what Oda was trying to concieve as an eleven member, whereas Yamato is the final version.
also, not trying to say there's a more sensical side 'round here:ninja: , but if everything that's happened with Yamato so far, has happened with Carrot, there would be about no doubt that she was the chosen one.
Ace's presence in the special covers(99-100-101) would mean no excuse, if Carrot was there instead of Yamato, that's it, she's the one.
Instead, she's gotten no cover appearances in the longest arc in the history of OP, and that is, despite her presence since day one.
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I think I already said it in the past but I'll say this again: that's one thing to still believe that Yamato won't leave Wano with the crew but to believe that she won't leave Wano at all is ridiculous.
I'd rather read theories about her forming her own crew or delaying her joining by taking a detour like Jinbe. Something that isn't 100% not happening. At least something cool to debate until she just joins the crew
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She'll 100% leave at some point. It could be with the SHs (not necessarily as one). He/she could give Luffy a vivre card like Ace and then sail for the final war. Or it could be a cover story adventure. No one knows. My money is still on it not being directly after Wano. Don't @ me.
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I would have more doubt than I already have about Carrot possibly joining if she told Luffy she wanted to join, then all she did was verbalize how much Momo was priority or she would die for him.
Since Zou. i've been waiting to see if Carrot would interact with or stay to get any connection with Momo.
Yamato has received the exact treatment concerning Retainer Duty that I thought Carrot would get to further any doubt. Good insight as usual @Monquito I didn't think of it this way if there was a Yamato/Carrot comparison
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I think I already said it in the past but I'll say this again: that's one thing to still believe that Yamato won't leave Wano with the crew but to believe that she won't leave Wano at all is ridiculous.
I'd rather read theories about her forming her own crew or delaying her joining by taking a detour like Jinbe. Something that isn't 100% not happening. At least something cool to debate until she just joins the crew
One thing I'll say at least for now is that if people are so inclined and drive the idea home so hard to think that either she'll stay on Wano or go with another crew, then I think it could be reasonable to expect of them at some point to elaborate on the purpose or point in Yamato doing so, because certainly we don't want whatever she'll end up doing to not have a point and be "pointless," right? And what Yamato can do that characters like Kinemon, Hyogoro, the Minks, and Zunesha can't do that would necessitate her so much.
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Except for Kidd and Drake, that have their own agendas, everyone else in the alliance is perfectly well aware that they went there to make Momo the Shogun, or die trying.
Carrot's there to die for Momo.
Yamato only has to verbalize on it because she knows people wouldnt trust her that easily as the daughter of Kaido.
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Yamato says it because that's how he feels deep in his heart. Before he read the journal too.
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I don't know where the "Yamato will join someone else" narrative even came from when Yamato said they specifically want to join Luffy.
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Wouldn't have to join. He's been Oden the whole time.
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Does it really have to be addressed, though? Is there any example of someone actually not accepting Yamato due to being Kaido's child? On the other hand, back when thrown into that cave with the starving samurai, Yamato got basically instantly accepted by them. The same with Ace.
Yamato's problem actually never was to not get accepted. Instead the issue always was that Kaido just flat out murdered everyone who did so and came too close. That whole plot point just is executed so terribly, it lacks any emotional meat. And what a coincidence that Kaido was not along when Ace appeared.
I guess it will get addressed, but I really wouldn't mind at all, if it gets dropped completely.
It was a point the story made, and by Kaido as an excuse to seclude Yamato, so it has to be proven wrong. Putting 2 and 2 together i'm assuming that's where the "bonding with momo" plotline is going.
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I don't know where the "Yamato will join someone else" narrative even came from when Yamato said they specifically want to join Luffy.
And using people like Momo as rationale for why Yamato will turn her back on Luffy in favor of Momo, despite lack of citation of Yamato expressing herself as wanting to be with Momo more and never leave Wano because of that.
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And using people like Momo as rationale for why Yamato will turn her back on Luffy in favor of Momo, despite lack of citation of Yamato expressing herself as wanting to be with Momo more and never leave Wano because of that.
Well, she's Oden after all and she only recently found out that her son is alive (does she even know Hyori is alive?). That surely is something that can make someone consider their priorities. Unless of course she wants to challenge Olvia for the worst parent in One Piece award.
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The anime episode didn't really added anything new to Yamato's past, as expected. It just padded the scenes to make them longer.
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The anime episode didn't really added anything new to Yamato's past, as expected. It just padded the scenes to make them longer.
That's fascinating, because I noticed an interesting parallel.
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Please keep discussions about the hellspawn within the Purgatory subforum.
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That's fascinating, because I noticed an interesting parallel.
It's essentially the same as in the manga, it's just that the anime took a single panel and extended it into a whole scene.
It's not that it's bad, it's just that it didn't add something really new. The added emotion is always nice, but I felt the manga covered it well for a rushed flashback, by giving it a meaningful panel.
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Well, she's Oden after all and she only recently found out that her son is alive (does she even know Hyori is alive?). That surely is something that can make someone consider their priorities. Unless of course she wants to challenge Olvia for the worst parent in One Piece award.
The infamous chapter 1,016 panel that is often used here where Yamato declares to Kaido that they'll kick him out of Wano and afterwards Yamato will sail the seas with Luffy happens after Yamato found out that Momo's alive. He ditched him the second he thought Shinobu and Momo were safe, they gave him his blessing, that moment was even used as the chapter title.
The knowledge of the Akazayas' and Momo's return did not change anything about Yamato's ambitions.
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(does she even know Hyori is alive?)
Speaking of which, it really feels like Yamato is just temporarily fulfilling Hiyori's role in Momo's life, once their expected reunion happens, she'll be the better councelor, friend, queen regent and heck even retainer.
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The infamous chapter 1,016 panel that is often used here where Yamato declares to Kaido that they'll kick him out of Wano and afterwards Yamato will sail the seas with Luffy happens after Yamato found out that Momo's alive. He ditched him the second he thought Shinobu and Momo were safe, they gave him his blessing, that moment was even used as the chapter title.
The knowledge of the Akazayas' and Momo's return did not change anything about Yamato's ambitions.
That's it. She's a terrible father then. Last chance of redemption is when she finds out Hyori is alive.
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The infamous chapter 1,016 panel that is often used here where Yamato declares to Kaido that they'll kick him out of Wano and afterwards Yamato will sail the seas with Luffy happens after Yamato found out that Momo's alive. He ditched him the second he thought Shinobu and Momo were safe, they gave him his blessing, that moment was even used as the chapter title.
The knowledge of the Akazayas' and Momo's return did not change anything about Yamato's ambitions.
And once again: if I'm able to realize when Vivi is changing her mind about going with Luffy, then I'm able to realize when Yamato is changing her mind about going with Luffy too, regardless of what others like Kaido say
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Speaking of which, it really feels like Yamato is just temporarily fulfilling Hiyori's role in Momo's life, once their expected reunion happens, she'll be the better councelor, friend, queen regent and heck even retainer.
Ah, didn't think of that, that Yamato is filling in the void of Hoyori not being with Momo until she reunites with him, possibly only after she has defeated Orochi once and for all.
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And once again: if I'm able to realize when Vivi is changing her mind about going with Luffy, then I'm able to realize when Yamato is changing her mind about going with Luffy too, regardless of what others like Kaido say
Vivi never changed her mind - her intent was always to stay behind in Alabasta. The conflict was that when it came time for the Strawhats to leave, she also realized that she wanted to go with them and she had to make a decision to resolve those two conflicting desires. It was never about changing the direction she was travelling, it was about dealing with the fact that she really wanted to but knew she ultimately couldn't.
And even then, she did so by essentially asking if she could stay behind in Alabasta and still be considered a Strawhat, which is as close to the "best of both worlds" as was probably possible given the situation.
I don't feel that Vivi's situation back in Alabasta is in any way applicable to Yamato's here in Wano. Yams has made his intentions perfectly clear from the start.
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Vivi never changed her mind - her intent was always to stay behind in Alabasta. The conflict was that when it came time for the Strawhats to leave, she also realized that she wanted to go with them and she had to make a decision to resolve those two conflicting desires. It was never about changing the direction she was travelling, it was about dealing with the fact that she really wanted to but knew she ultimately couldn't.
And even then, she did so by essentially asking if she could stay behind in Alabasta and still be considered a Strawhat, which is as close to the "best of both worlds" as was probably possible given the situation.
I don't feel that Vivi's situation back in Alabasta is in any way applicable to Yamato's here in Wano. Yams has made his intentions perfectly clear from the start.
Yeah, that was the main point I was making, that she showed herself to be conflicted, going by what she said here:
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I really hope Carrot joins the grand fleet at least, if we’re not gonna have a Mink representative on the main crew we should at least have one on the grand fleet like we do with giants, dwarves, long arm and long legs
Nox pirates 2.0
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If someone is going to reactivate the Nox Pirates, it should be Pekoms. He was part of the original group, he is an experienced pirate, and he knows the purpose of the Nox pirates, searching for Poneglyphs. It makes sense for Carrot to join them, but not to lead.
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If someone is going to reactivate the Nox Pirates, it should be Pekoms. He was part of the original group, he is an experienced pirate, and he knows the purpose of the Nox pirates, searching for Poneglyphs. It makes sense for Carrot to join them, but not to lead.
Just a small correction, Pekoms wasn't one of the Nox pirates. He was already part of BM crew, since he asked her to spare Pedro and Zepo(?) and she lowered their sentence by 10 years.
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@statu:
Just a small correction, Pekoms wasn't one of the Nox pirates. He was already part of BM crew, since he asked her to spare Pedro and Zepo(?) and she lowered their sentence by 10 years.
Pedro and Zepo were separated from Pekoms. During that time, Pekoms and his crew arrived at Totto Land. At that point, they joined the Big Mom Pirates.
Pedro and Zepo continued searching for Poneglyphs and some time later, I think 5 years later, they were after Big Mom's Poneglyph and that's when the scenario you described happened. -
The Spades Pirates really should have bigger roles than they got. It's so weird how generic and absent they feel.
Not gonna spoil the episode here, but I will just say, Toei delivered.
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Not gonna spoil the episode here, but I will just say, Toei delivered.
I've seen it, it was a pleasant surprise to see Masked Deuce make a cameo.
Still, the Spade Pirates need more love.
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Yeah, that was the main point I was making, that she showed herself to be conflicted, going by what she said here:
What I am saying is that feeling conflicted over something isn't the same as changing your mind about it.
If Vivi had chosen to go with the Strawhats, that would have been changing her mind, because from the start she'd always intended to stay in Alabasta once Crocodile was defeated. The connections she forged with the Strawhats over the journey from Whiskey Peak made that decision more difficult than expected for her, but it's still the one she chose to follow through with. Vivi was conflicted, but she never changed her mind - if she had, she'd have left Alabasta aboard the Going Merry.
Yamato, by contrast, has stated from the start that he intends to leave Wano once Kaidou is defeated, the exact opposite position that Vivi held for Alabasta. Yams choosing to stay behind WOULD be changing his mind - and in a way that serves to throw a good half of his existing characterization into the garbage bin in the process. Twenty years of wanting to go out to sea while being imprisoned on Onigashima? Friendship with Ace? Waiting two years specifically for Luffy's arrival with the explicit intention to join his crew? Apparently none of that matters because Momo (whose character arc isn't finished yet) needs him, and as we all know, Kozuki Oden was never one to shirk his responsibilities when the call to adventure arrived at his doorstep…
Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that I think you're trying to draw a parallel that doesn't really exist, or that doesn't say what you seem to think it does.
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Yamato has never once placed Momonosuke above Luffy within this arc. The aspect driving Yamato from 2 years ago and currently is Luffy. Oda has consistently placed Luffy as the motivating force for Yamato and has NOT ONCE deviated from it during this arc. Luffy has always been Yamato's number one since Yamato made the connection between Luffy and Joy Boy. Oda is not scripting any conflict within Yamato's mind about not following through with his desire to board the Thousand Sunny after Kaido is defeated and Wano is liberated.
Yamato revealed themselves to the Beast Pirates (Ulti) after being in hiding for the day because of Luffy.
Yamato revealed the existence of Oden's journal because he met Luffy.
Yamato requested he get a ride aboard the Thousand Sunny because of Luffy (something he never even asked Ace).
Yamato resolved to become Kozuki Oden in this day because of Luffy (who removed the explosive shackles).
Yamato actively went against the Beast Pirates because of Luffy.
Yamato protected Momonosuke because of Luffy (requested).
Yamato revealed the relevance of Ace's story to Momonosuke because of Luffy.
Yamato gave Momonosuke Oden's journal to both help Momonosuke understand Oden's life and to understand the importance of the New Generation which Luffy is a representative of.
Yamato abandoned Momonosuke because of Luffy (to help him).
Yamato stood up to Kaido and expressed his intentions because of Luffy.
Yamato fought Kaido because of Luffy (Yamato believes Luffy is the man Oden was waiting for).
Yamato left Kaido because of Luffy (wanted to respect Luffy's wishes)
Yamato helped Momonosuke again because of Luffy (requested).
Yamato left Momonosuke again (to deal with the Onigashima explosives) because of Luffy - Yamato believed Luffy would defeat Kaido and wanted to avoid the worse case scenario in case Momonosuke couldn't prevent the Island from collapsing on top of the Flower Capital.Yamato knows Momonosuke will guide the world to the DAWN but he also realises that Luffy's role is something much more significant in the grand scheme of destiny and inherited wills. Within Yamato's mind there is no doubt in following Luffy.
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There's one chunk of information missing from Yamato being okay with Momo being dead for 20 years to suddenly call him the Dawn-Bringer, and praise his relevance.
The implication here, is that the Journal doesnt ever explicitly mentions Momo's name at all, but rather something along the lines of a Shogun(whoever it is) that must open Wano within the next 20 years. Which makes sense when you consider that one time Oden asked Orochi and Kaido a second chance, cause he must've lived.
It also would make sense for why Momo immediately stated after a quick read that he must not die.Being under the impression that the Kozuki lineage was gone forever, Yamato ~probably~ wanted to take full responsability of such task, but as of right now, she's completely relieved of it.
I even think that if Yamato had noticed Hiyori was alive first, she'd go on calling Hiyori a Dawn-bringer and claiming she would die for her, it makes no difference, all Yamato wants is to help into set up someone that will no doubt, open Wano.
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The implication here, is that the Journal doesnt ever explicitly mentions Momo's name at all
Oden anticipated that Momo will be able to talk to Zuneasha.