So, who's going to make a collage of all the moments Yamato didn't interact with any Strawhats? :ninja:
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)
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You're just going it circles, there isn't a rule saying she has to, Luffy is the one who always matters and yes, she's made said interactions already.
If Yamato's most important interest is to join the SH's, going straight to speak with the man in charge is exactly what's going to make him achieve said goal.
They all were in Wano for weeks, that's just the author not interested in doing it.
Franky in particular did not interact with the rest of the crew until Onigashima and the Minks were in hiding during Act 2 because they stand out and were not supposed to be in Wano.
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Straw Hat interactions have been proven to hold up. While Nami face/design, 3.9 theory, and overlap has backfired over and over again.
Luffy ignoring the request makes sense. Yamato has to get his priorities straight. Maybe Yamato makes it to a Straw Hat outside of Luffy as development. So far, Tama has shown personality, initiative, Straw Hat interactions and Luffy and Zoro are thinking of her when she isn't present. Luffy could have gave Yamato a thought, but there are more important things.
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Oh, so you agree that Yamato still has a chance even though Luffy ignored her request during their short meeting, but probably will accept it by the end of Wano, when everything is settled…
Ok, and I thought you were saying Yamato has a lesser chance because Luffy ignored her request, but immediately accepted Robins... sorry my bad, got it wrong...Yeah, I am pretty consistently saying I think Yamato has a chance of joining. I just think there's still quite a bit of uncertainty and other possible outcomes. There of course signs pointing to her joining, but other factors still lead me to believe something else might happen with Yamato. 'Protecting Wano' was only ever a possibility. Independent of Yamato joining or not joining, I suspect that the opening of Wano's borders will have major ramifications. Further, Kaido and Sengoku have both hinted that there is something particularly special about the land of Wano. I don't know exactly what it might be, but I suspect these two factors could make the situation on Wano complicated even after Kaido and Orochi are cleared out. Complicated doesn't mean 'in a desperate situation.' It's a wait and see thing right now, but I think the status of Wano at the end of the arc is going to be a determining factor in where Yamato goes and what she does.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I have a very strong feeling that Act 4 will solve several plot threads started in WCI. That’s when Carrot’s arc will be resolved. Carrot’s case will become much clearer then.
I'm still personally hoping for an Act 4 as well, so I'd be happy if you're right about that. I could certainly see Carrot's role in that phase of the story being determinative in regard to her joining or not joining the crew.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Many people here have repeatedly mentioned that Oda had, i dunno, 100 chapters to really flesh out whatever Carrot's motivations/relationship with the SHs/any, literally any selling point at all. If Oda has not shown Carrot contemplating even once about "the dawn or whatever the hell it is" all this while then i'm going to take the hint that he either forgot or didn't bother to follow up on it at all, much less make it a compelling reason to make her join. Like Wiper/Paulie/Hancock. If he's charitable maybe he'll do some kind of inspired carrot deal where she'll organize her own crew or something.
But at this point you're just going to dodge the hard question, aren't you?
Robby literally pointed out that Yamato's words to fight for Wano/Momo has always came with the context that he'll leave after that. They do not contradict each other at all.
It's also pretty cute that you tried to argue Yamato will sacrifice their wants for Wano (no they haven't, how did you come to the statement) when he has consistently mentioned he's leaving. Many times, even after meeting Momo.Also i'm not going to retype it, but my response to Bob can be copy-pasted for your "fulfilling Pedro's dream". And yes, not getting attention when her candidacy is at a big unknown is a very bad thing because Oda is not selling her as a MC to us.
And in the end, you chose to pick up Deicide's pet panel size argument. Especially when people have repeatedly pointed out that it was a mink-specific thing to tease what they can do + can only be done once a month.
Compare that to yamato's fruit which received flavor backstory (he ate it cause he was hungry, Kaido struggled to get it), is still being shown consistently, and has not had its full breadth of abilities explained or shown yet. Doesn't that not strike you as something that Oda wants to show out bit by bit? Especially when he could have just listed down everything immediately the fruit could do, similar to carrot.That's a good way to completely ignore the issue at hand, that Oda hasn't used her once during the entire Wano saga. If WCI was sufficient to sell us on her recruitment as you so implied (no it wasn't), then why didn't he continue to build up on her characterization/motivation?
I guess Wano and then Onigashima were crowded arcs, he probably didn't have any space to introduce potential newcomers…..oh wait yamato exists. Consistently. Since Onigashima started.I guess I don't knw what the hard question is supposed to be. I don't see Carrot dipping out of the story for the time being as significant enough of a detriment to undermine her development on Whole Cake Island or to alter the trajectory of her character arc. We did see Carrot remembering Pedro's words after being defeated by Perospero. We don't yet know how she will be inspired by being knocked down. I've heard the tired argument about Carrot being used to 'hype' sulong. Considering how little focus Oda gave Inuarushi, Nekomamushi, and the others, I don't think that idea holds any weight at this point.
Carrot's character arc is still in progress whether or not she joins. Pedro wanted to join Roger's crew, but was put on the waiting list and told 'every person has their time to shine.' Pedro sacrificed himself so that Carrot and the others could live. In his final moments, he repeated Roger's words: "every person has their time to shine." And then he told her the Straw Hats will fulfill a long held Mink prophecy by bringing the New Dawn to the world and urged her to keep moving forward.
Going after Perospero in anger was a mistake. Avenging Pedro is not the culmination of her character arc. Pedro didn't dies so that she could get herself killed trying to avenge his death. He wanted her to move forward, not look back. Which she remembers after being knocked down. The question now is how she will move forward. She can't 'hop back home' now that Perospero taunted her to do so. The question has to be answered now that it has been asked. Carrot has been in the background, but her trajectory hasn't been altered. Nothing in the narrative itself points toward her going somewhere else.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Franky in particular did not interact with the rest of the crew until Onigashima and the Minks were in hiding during Act 2 because they stand out and were not supposed to be in Wano.
Didn't stop Chopper from running around and getting a subplot.
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Can someone give me a brief summary about the current state of this thread?
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But the thing is that, it isn't, and you've noticed is not, you're literally elaborating on how normal of a thing it actually is.
Carrot not interacting with Robin for 216 chapters, and as long as I can recall, not having a conversation with Franky either, THAT is actually an atypical thing to happen, and you show nothing but patience about it, for almost six years!
I'm not sure what counts as an "interaction," but the SHs knew that she actually existed within the first 37 chapters she appeared.
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Can someone give me a brief summary about the current state of this thread?
Shitshow like always, but something tells me you already knew that.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Yamato has made clear that she:
- Wants to sail with Luffy
- Prioritizes the land of Wano above personal desire
If Wano and Momo are fine without her, she would be able to sail with Luffy assuming he accepts her request to sail with him. I am not certain that will be the case. I'm not saying Wano will still be in a dire situation, but there may be an ongoing situation which requires attention from the people who carry Oden's will, including Yamato.
Something worth mentioning is the fact that Yamato hasn't technically said anything about joining Luffy's crew. She asked to sail with him. Of course the implication is joining the Straw Hats, but it's never outright stated.
I really didn't get point 2) from the text honestly. I remember Yamato committing to protect Momo through the battle, and telling Kaido that Wano has to be free a given back to the samurais. Plus, the whole "I am/want to be Oden" stuff is born from reading the journal, which is much more a log of incredible stuff that happened to Oden once he left Wano, rather than a cautionary tale on how important it is to stay put there and tend to its people.
I guess this is terrain for different readings of subtext though, hopefully the flashback will clarify a lot of this. I think we'll get it after Kaido's defeat though, it's really unlikely that Oda will kill the momentum here. -
First chapter in, Zoro's blade is tested by her. Has Usopp shivering, but he's always like that, so it doesn't count.
Again, the slightest interaction was right there for Franky and Oda passed up on it. Maybe there was an opportunity before that, but Luffy referred to Yamato as an ally in that 1 moment.
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The point with Jinbe was that he didn't join in the arc that he was introduced. People talking about how Carrot hasn't done anything this arc need to remember that this is the first arc that she hasn't been directly involved in as a major player. Her being in the background alone shouldn't diminish her chances.
Well of course Jimbe didn't join in the arc he was introduced. I already laid out his supporting character role from Impel Down to Marineford and after but putting that aside if we start with Fishman Island, he was reintroduced there, gone for Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, and Zou then came back for WCI and accepted Luffy's offer to join and took his first order from the captain as a strawhat pirate.
The reason I say that doesn't work for Carrot was she was introduced in Zou then was involved in WCI but at best she was a side character that only got a bigger focus when they were escaping. She had no focus on her as a character in the main plot or any of the subplots during WCI. Nothing with BM, a Charlotte sibling, Germa, not even anything with Pekoms, etc. Any deeper emotional ties only came about with Pedro's sacrifice.
Then she continued to tag along in Wano where Oda then basically had her fade in to the background where a slew of new characters took the spotlight.
Jimbe got protagonist level focus in the arcs he was in. Carrot barely got side character focus in the arcs she was in. Also the arcs Jimbe were not in he was completely not there. With Carrot its different. She's around just not given very miniscule focus. Jimbe not being in Dressrosa is not the same as Carrot currently in Wano.
Carrot was introduced as a supporting character on Zou, yes, but she became the link between the minks and the SHs. As other have said, there is a belief amongst the minks (Pedro and Neko specifically) that the SHs will bring about the dawn their people have been waiting for for years. Carrot doesn't know that history. Now that Pedro is dead, people should wait for her to talk to Neko, since Pedro was his top supporting character. If Neko goes straight for Pero, then there's still the conversation between him and Carrot that needs to happen.
As far as the new/next generation I can agree Carrot is the link for the Minks to the strawhats but its proving to be a very arc/saga specific ally role. I dont expect much if Carrot speaks with Neko. I just assume at some point Oda will deliver on what is the point of Pedro's words of move forward in regards to Carrot. I don't even think she'll necessarily have anything to do with the Dawn.
He kinda is. Yamato has been used to tie Ace and Oden's journal to the current story. He also has his own personal hell by being locked up and beaten by his father despite his desire to be free. That sounds like a struggle to me.
It's his personal struggle. It really isnt what's linking anything to Onigashima. I'm finding it strange to even treat Onigashima separate from Wano. Its just the stronghold of the oppressors of Wano.
I still have a number of issues with Yamato, but I understand why people would think he has NN written all over him. He feels like a character that an editor came up with to tie things together and get people more engaged given his design, overlap with Ace (even after Tama), his sudden mention and appearance (despite years of missed opportunities to mention him),etc., but that's another topic.
Seems more like something Oda came up with given the consistency of the character. While I don't think Yamato is a link to Onigashima he is being used narratively to tie a lot of different things together that otherwise would have to be dolled out to several other characters.
I think I'll wait for her conversation with Neko to determine where she goes from here. I do know that her actually taking Pedro's killer's advice about going back home where it's safe would undermine the entire character, especially if Pedro's last words were to mean anything.
While I'm not that interested in Carrot her only option isn't doing what Peros told her. I find it odd Carrot supporters keep saying it cant be that as if anybody is saying it has to be. Meanwhile, they can come up with all sorts of alternatives for Yamato instead of joining the crew but can't think of any for Carrot.
If Carrot actually ends up caring about the Dawn like Pedro she can become Momo's retainer, help him open Wano's borders, and help usher in the Dawn.
She can go start her own crew or join the Kid pirates; they can use a mink.
Or she can realize she wasn't quite ready to go exploring or anything adjacent to piracy and decide to train to become stronger like Tama would need to. Maybe Neko takes her under his paws or she stays in Wano and trains there.
I'm pretty sure Oda will come up with something for a cover story arc.
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Can someone give me a brief summary about the current state of this thread?
Why would it change at all without a chapter with new info to analyze?
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Wait, are we not assuming that Yamato will get fodderized very soon / the moment Luffy re-enters the battle? I mean it's already crazy that he's fighting Kaido equally, alone, for like an hour or what.
That's the point where his role would end in the war, at least I don't expect him to go back to the main stage. Or what's the idea here?Given how even the scabbards have been knocked down just to be healed and some get knocked down again I'm pretty sure Yamato will get back up and keep fighting somebody.
Doubt he'll be fodder when Law and Kid managed to escape the same fate.
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The fact that I can make a retainer collage is why I still question my first post in this thread. Anymore retainer like statements while there's no new developments on the Straw Hat front will make me go from 70% sure he joins to 50%.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Franky in particular did not interact with the rest of the crew until Onigashima and the Minks were in hiding during Act 2 because they stand out and were not supposed to be in Wano.
Franky is already a SH and has interacted with everyone already, see how you just want to go in circles without aknowledging stuff..
Also Bepo and Chopper were like having fun and stuff, O-kiku also went out with a mask, again, it was just Oda not interested in Carrot.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The fact that I can make a retainer collage is why I still question my first post in this thread. Anymore retainer like statements while there's no new developments on the Straw Hat front will make me go from 70% sure he joins to 50%.
Again. Fathers do not become retainers, Yamato cares of Momo like Oden would.
Besides, you've always been flexible into the idea that having a position already doesn't contradict possibilities to join, since Carrot's Musketeer/Kingsbird duties never seemed like a burden or anything, so I guess you're not getting hypocrital now with the retainer being a double sized burden or something like that?
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If Yamato would become a retainer, she would perfect her role as Oden…
Ditch her responsibilities and leave as fast as she can... perfection. -
Franky is already a SH and has interacted with everyone already, see how you just want to go in circles without aknowledging stuff..
Also Bepo and Chopper were like having fun and stuff, O-kiku also went out with a mask, again, it was just Oda not interested in Carrot.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Again. Fathers do not become retainers, Yamato cares of Momo like Oden would.
Besides, you've always been flexible into the idea that having a position already doesn't contradict possibilities to join, since Carrot's Musketeer/Kingsbird duties never seemed like a burden or anything, so I guess you're not getting hypocrital now with the retainer being a double sized burden or something like that?
You just want me to agree with you. I'm not 'going in circles.' I'm saying that I don't think it matters. You want me to say it does. I do not think that. You're never going to get me to say something I don't agree with. If your definition of 'going in circles' is someone not immediately agreeing with something you say, I don't know what to tell you.
If Oda wasn't interested in Carrot, he wouldn't have included her in the story. Oda is interested in every character he draws. You're the one whose bias is showing most prominently here.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Zik:
Well of course Jimbe didn't join in the arc he was introduced. I already laid out his supporting character role from Impel Down to Marineford and after but putting that aside if we start with Fishman Island, he was reintroduced there, gone for Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, and Zou then came back for WCI and accepted Luffy's offer to join and took his first order from the captain as a strawhat pirate.
The reason I say that doesn't work for Carrot was she was introduced in Zou then was involved in WCI but at best she was a side character that only got a bigger focus when they were escaping. She had no focus on her as a character in the main plot or any of the subplots during WCI. Nothing with BM, a Charlotte sibling, Germa, not even anything with Pekoms, etc. Any deeper emotional ties only came about with Pedro's sacrifice.
Then she continued to tag along in Wano where Oda then basically had her fade in to the background where a slew of new characters took the spotlight.
Jimbe got protagonist level focus in the arcs he was in. Carrot barely got side character focus in the arcs she was in. Also the arcs Jimbe were not in he was completely not there. With Carrot its different. She's around just not given very miniscule focus. Jimbe not being in Dressrosa is not the same as Carrot currently in Wano.
As far as the new/next generation I can agree Carrot is the link for the Minks to the strawhats but its proving to be a very arc/saga specific ally role. I dont expect much if Carrot speaks with Neko. I just assume at some point Oda will deliver on what is the point of Pedro's words of move forward in regards to Carrot. I don't even think she'll necessarily have anything to do with the Dawn.
It's his personal struggle. It really isnt what's linking anything to Onigashima. I'm finding it strange to even treat Onigashima separate from Wano. Its just the stronghold of the oppressors of Wano.
Seems more like something Oda came up with given the consistency of the character. While I don't think Yamato is a link to Onigashima he is being used narratively to tie a lot of different things together that otherwise would have to be dolled out to several other characters.
While I'm not that interested in Carrot her only option isn't doing what Peros told her. I find it odd Carrot supporters keep saying it cant be that as if anybody is saying it has to be. Meanwhile, they can come up with all sorts of alternatives for Yamato instead of joining the crew but can't think of any for Carrot.
If Carrot actually ends up caring about the Dawn like Pedro she can become Momo's retainer, help him open Wano's borders, and help usher in the Dawn.
She can go start her own crew or join the Kid pirates; they can use a mink.
Or she can realize she wasn't quite ready to go exploring or anything adjacent to piracy and decide to train to become stronger like Tama would need to. Maybe Neko takes her under his paws or she stays in Wano and trains there.
I'm pretty sure Oda will come up with something for a cover story arc.
Yamato spends all her panel time with Momo and believes Momo will bring the New Dawn; Will go with Luffy to help him bring the New Dawn
Carrot spends all her time with the Straw Hats and her dead mentor told her the Straw Hats will bring the New Dawn. Has never spoken to Momo despite being in the same scene multiple times on Zou and Wano. Will stay with Momo to bring the New Dawn.
You think that's logical?
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
You just want me to agree with you. I'm not 'going in circles.' I'm saying that I don't think it matters. You want me to say it does. I do not think that. You're never going to get me to say something I don't agree with. If your definition of 'going in circles' is someone not immediately agreeing with something you say, I don't know what to tell you.
-You claim Yamato's arc is not going straight into nakamization just because she's not interacted with all the people that never has a word on who joins, and name it atyical or unusual.
-I tell you that's pretty normal of a thing and elaborate on how other members didn't either, proving it actually is typical and usual.
-you'll come with whatever random stuff, like what you just said about Franky
-Jump back to claim Yamato must interact with the othersThat is going in circles..
If Oda wasn't interested in Carrot, he wouldn't have included her in the story. Oda is interested in every character he draws. You're the one whose bias is showing most prominently here.
He wasn't interested in giving her a Wano adventure. Which is what we were talking about. see how you just come with random stuff, instead of just aknowledging facts.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Carrot spends all her time with the Straw Hats
False.
Carrot's been with the Minks most of the time.
her Wano adventure was with the Minks.
she popped up in the Sunny along with the Minks.
Pedro's funeral was with the Minks.
her fight with Perospero was alongside Wanda.
And there's also huge chances she'll close her story arc along her Boss Mink.In comparission, she's only been minutes with the SH's. she's been having a very Mink-arc.
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Yamato has been more vocal and active as Momo's protector than interacting with the crew. He said it himself, Wano is what he has to fight for the sake of.
While Carrot has inched away from her duties in every sense.
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Learning to be a pirate=/=learning to fight.
Exactly.
Yamato has been a captive of her own father a majority of her life. Bound by explosives what little she knows of Piracy is through 2nd hand news reports, watching her Father and his dictatorship over Wano, and what little time she spent with Ace.
Yamato is a novice. Last two characters who joined were seasoned vets. Her being that strong and having a mythical zoan is comparable to Marco, and Kaido before he got his fruit from Linlin.
Yamato being a strong fighter in the crew but only an apprentice is comparable to former Warlord jinbe only being a Helmsman. That's what makes the Strawhats stand apart from the rest of the crews. His First Mate rarely flexes rank, the navigator has more say than destination, their Sniper is a coward , Cook is Royalty and as much of a threat as any Commander in a pirate crew. Doctor young and naive, Archeologist whose an Assasin and somewhat demonic In demeanor and ability and Brook is dead.
It's already established that this is a crew that breaks the mold of what people expect a pirate crew.
Again , Oda already set the precedence through dialog and flashback. Marco was an apprentice with a mythical zoan leading the charge. Kaido was one of the Rocks top 3 fighters as an apprentice.
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Hmm.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
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Yamato spends all her panel time with Momo and believes Momo will bring the New Dawn; Will go with Luffy to help him bring the New Dawn
Carrot spends all her time with the Straw Hats and her dead mentor told her the Straw Hats will bring the New Dawn. Has never spoken to Momo despite being in the same scene multiple times on Zou and Wano. Will stay with Momo to bring the New Dawn.
You think that's logical?
Sure.
Can't have two characters on the crew wanting to bring the Dawn.
There's always the other options I suggested.
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-You claim Yamato's arc is not going straight into nakamization just because she's not interacted with all the people that never has a word on who joins, and name it atyical or unusual.
-I tell you that's pretty normal of a thing and elaborate on how other members didn't either, proving it actually is typical and usual.
-you'll come with whatever random stuff, like what you just said about Franky
-Jump back to claim Yamato must interact with the othersThat is going in circles..
He wasn't interested in giving her a Wano adventure. Which is what we were talking about. see how you just come with random stuff, instead of just aknowledging facts.
False.
Carrot's been with the Minks most of the time.
her Wano adventure was with the Minks.
she popped up in the Sunny along with the Minks.
Pedro's funeral was with the Minks.
her fight with Perospero was alongside Wanda.
And there's also huge chances she'll close her story arc along her Boss Mink.In comparission, she's only been minutes with the SH's. she's been having a very Mink-arc.
False False. She spent time with the Minks during Act 2. As soon as the Raid began, she was aboard Thousand Sunny. She was with the Straw Hats for the entirety of Whole Cake Island, Wano Act 1, and the start of Wano Act 3 (955) until she ran off to fight Perospero (992).
And you're also blatantly misrepresenting what I said about Yamato to suit your biased agenda.
You're the one who comes in with random tangent points. You clearly are either not reading or not comprehending what I'm saying. You can't even handle someone having the slightest hesitation about Yamato joining. I haven't been saying she absolutely won't join. I don't argue in absolutes like you do.
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@Zik:
Well of course Jimbe didn't join in the arc he was introduced. I already laid out his supporting character role from Impel Down to Marineford and after but putting that aside if we start with Fishman Island, he was reintroduced there, gone for Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, and Zou then came back for WCI and accepted Luffy's offer to join and took his first order from the captain as a strawhat pirate.
The reason I say that doesn't work for Carrot was she was introduced in Zou then was involved in WCI but at best she was a side character that only got a bigger focus when they were escaping. She had no focus on her as a character in the main plot or any of the subplots during WCI. Nothing with BM, a Charlotte sibling, Germa, not even anything with Pekoms, etc. Any deeper emotional ties only came about with Pedro's sacrifice.
Then she continued to tag along in Wano where Oda then basically had her fade in to the background where a slew of new characters took the spotlight.
Jimbe got protagonist level focus in the arcs he was in. Carrot barely got side character focus in the arcs she was in. Also the arcs Jimbe were not in he was completely not there. With Carrot its different. She's around just not given very miniscule focus. Jimbe not being in Dressrosa is not the same as Carrot currently in Wano.
But she did get focus. She was on like 4 volume covers and one of them was actually named after her. That kinda puts the side character thing to rest if you look at it from that perspective. Even with Jinbe, we still haven't gotten a character specific arc (he was in flashbacks during FI, but the royal family and Fisher Tiger were the main characters), a declaration of his dream, know where his scar came from, or things like that. If Oda didn't check all of the boxes with him after this many years, then I'll give him a pass on other characters as well. Carrot was never set up to be one of the main protagonists on Wano, so her not being front and center doesn't automatically make me come to the conclusion that she's not a valid candidate. When Jinbe disappeared for years, nothing about that changed my mind either, despite people saying he'd die or lose a limb or crap like that.
As far as the new/next generation I can agree Carrot is the link for the Minks to the strawhats but its proving to be a very arc/saga specific ally role. I dont expect much if Carrot speaks with Neko. I just assume at some point Oda will deliver on what is the point of Pedro's words of move forward in regards to Carrot. I don't even think she'll necessarily have anything to do with the Dawn.
Given that Neko and Pedro were the only two that really talked about it, I'm expecting something. Pedro was his number two and it's not a coincidence that he was the last one to find out or that he hasn't been on panel with Carrot yet. I'm willing to wait on that. If it never comes, then yeah. Her chances are almost zero then.
It's his personal struggle. It really isnt what's linking anything to Onigashima. I'm finding it strange to even treat Onigashima separate from Wano. Its just the stronghold of the oppressors of Wano.
It's making us sympathize with what he's had to go through being shackled by a bad guy like Kaido despite wanting to be free. We didn't need much, though. This is an arc within and arc and not having a character like Yamato would've made things feel slightly off. Even Impel Down (another raid-type arc) had characters like Bon Clay, Ivankov, and Hannyabal to connect with. Someone was needed on Onigashima and I think it's working out just fine.
Seems more like something Oda came up with given the consistency of the character. While I don't think Yamato is a link to Onigashima he is being used narratively to tie a lot of different things together that otherwise would have to be dolled out to several other characters.
He doesn't seem like the typical character from a design or personality standpoint to me. There are too many things that we see with Yamato that we've seen elsewhere. As for quirks (a defining characteristic for characters), the whole "I'm Oden" thing just doesn't seem that well thought out considering all of the other amazing quirks that we've seen. Even Ulti's general demeanor and manner of speaking are far better and she won't be around at all after this arc. I know that the gender swap was based on Oda-sensei's reading of The Rose of Versailles, but the character itself seems like something the editor recommended. I have zero proof. It just feels like the version of the character that we got wasn't planned out two or three years ago.
While I'm not that interested in Carrot her only option isn't doing what Peros told her. I find it odd Carrot supporters keep saying it cant be that as if anybody is saying it has to be. Meanwhile, they can come up with all sorts of alternatives for Yamato instead of joining the crew but can't think of any for Carrot.
If Carrot actually ends up caring about the Dawn like Pedro she can become Momo's retainer, help him open Wano's borders, and help usher in the Dawn.
She can go start her own crew or join the Kid pirates; they can use a mink.
Or she can realize she wasn't quite ready to go exploring or anything adjacent to piracy and decide to train to become stronger like Tama would need to. Maybe Neko takes her under his paws or she stays in Wano and trains there.
I'm pretty sure Oda will come up with something for a cover story arc.
Carrot has shown no ability to lead. When she looks to Chopper for advice on what to do…yeah. She also hasn't show any connection at all to anyone on Wano like Tama or Momo. After the arc, she either goes home like Pero said (which I'd have a hard time believing) or she continues on with the SHs. She hasn't established a meaningful relationship with anyone else tbh. It's either home with the minks or the SHs.
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@Zik:
Sure.
Can't have two characters on the crew wanting to bring the Dawn.
There's always the other options I suggested.
That's entirely illogical from a storytelling perspective. Yamato believes Momo will bring the Dawn so she goes with Luffy, despite spending all her time with Momo. Carrot is told Luffy will bring the Dawn so she'll randomly stay with Momo, a character she has never interacted with. Who's the one grasping now? You're making up a case for Carrot staying with Momo without any basis in the story. See, two can play at your game.
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Yeah, I don't get why Oda would pass up Carrot staying behind on Zou with Momo back then or Yamato not interacting with Franky. Carrot had more opportunities to interact with Momo and it just didn't happen. Yamato even got to pour out his feelings and have funny exchanges with Shinobu.
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-You claim Yamato's arc is not going straight into nakamization just because she's not interacted with all the people that never has a word on who joins, and name it atyical or unusual.
-I tell you that's pretty normal of a thing and elaborate on how other members didn't either, proving it actually is typical and usual.
-you'll come with whatever random stuff, like what you just said about Franky
-Jump back to claim Yamato must interact with the othersThat is going in circles..
He wasn't interested in giving her a Wano adventure. Which is what we were talking about. see how you just come with random stuff, instead of just aknowledging facts.
False.
Carrot's been with the Minks most of the time.
her Wano adventure was with the Minks.
she popped up in the Sunny along with the Minks.
Pedro's funeral was with the Minks.
her fight with Perospero was alongside Wanda.
And there's also huge chances she'll close her story arc along her Boss Mink.In comparission, she's only been minutes with the SH's. she's been having a very Mink-arc.
And again, I make a point. You counter that point. I don't agree with your counter. I am not obligated to agree with you. That is not how conversations work. It seems what you want is as soon as you say something, the other person accepts what you said as truth. If that's what you describe as going in circles…. that's just a normal back and forth conversation. I got news for you, there's nothing deficient with the people who don't share your perspective. That's a you problem, not a me problem. I think you need to adjust your expectations for how discourse is supposed to work, otherwise you're going to be constantly disappointed when people don't immediately conform to every word you speak.
And again, I'll reiterate, I never said 'Yamato must interact with others.' That's a terribly inaccurate strawman of the point I was making. You either didn't read, didn't understand, or intentionally misrepresented what I said to try to paint me in a bad light. It's very dishonest.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
That's entirely illogical from a storytelling perspective. Yamato believes Momo will bring the Dawn so she goes with Luffy, despite spending all her time with Momo. Carrot is told Luffy will bring the Dawn so she'll randomly stay with Momo, a character she has never interacted with. Who's the one grasping now? You're making up a case for Carrot staying with Momo without any basis in the story. See, two can play at your game.
Yeah, not to say that it's impossible that two characters can share a dream, but I'm honestly not sure how that would work in the story without feeling redundant.
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I think I got a way to explain the confusion in threads like this.
We are trying to assemble a puzzle. The picture, in this case, in some character's (Yamato, Carrot, and so on) intended arc.
However, solving that puzzle isn't easy, because the picture we are trying to form is not known beforehand, and some pieces are missing.
Each week, the author gives us some more pieces of the puzzle, and sometimes he assemble some of those pieces, helping us see a part of the picture.
Our task here is trying to predict the final whole picture before Oda finishes assembling it.
We start with premises, assumptions of what the final image is. Some people take only one premise (like, "this character will join"), others take several premises and, as more pieces are known or assembled, put the results against each premise to see which one seems more likely.
As we try to solve the puzzle, we find small clues: color patterns that appear to belong to the same area of the picture; corner pieces that are easier to assemble, but do not tell much of the picture's center; small groups of pieces that seem to fit together and form small parts of the image.
Based on those, our initial premises are reinforced, weakened or adapted.
We also make small assumptions based on each premise, and try to find pieces that confirm or deny those assumptions. Like: "this part of the picture seems to be a lake", so you try to find more pieces that look like water or a margin. You may find something that confirms it, or only seems to confirm it.
I had three premises originally:
a- Yamato is secretly evil
b- Yamato will join the crew.
c- Yamato will be the captain of his own crew.It didn't take long for I to discard premise (a). It was clearly wrong.
More recently, I found what appears to be a pattern in some pieces, thus I made a new premise based on that pattern:
d- Yamato will become Wano's guardian.So, I currently work with three premises that I can't prove or disprove just with the currently assembled pieces. Some posts I make are about one premise, so it can be confusing if one thinks everything I talk about covers the same prediction.
I also made assumptions along the way, like, for instance: "If Yamato is going to join, the fight with Kaido will be a big event, getting center stage and some chapters about it, and will give us at least hints of a flashback". That assumption, so far, has been proved false, so it weakened my conviction in Premise (a). However, the fight is not over, so it can still happen. Even if, in the end, the assumption is indeed false, it doesn't mean Premise (a) is also false, it just weakens it a lot in face of the others.
I feel some people have a single premise, and stick only to the pieces that seem to confirm it, ignoring all other possibilities. However, the pieces they are holding as the most important parts of the final image may actually be small details tossed to the side of full the full picture.
Also, some pieces may be upside-down, so we may looking at them the wrong way…
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
That's entirely illogical from a storytelling perspective. Yamato believes Momo will bring the Dawn so she goes with Luffy, despite spending all her time with Momo. Carrot is told Luffy will bring the Dawn so she'll randomly stay with Momo, a character she has never interacted with. Who's the one grasping now? You're making up a case for Carrot staying with Momo without any basis in the story. See, two can play at your game.
Yamato believes that Momo will guide the world after the dawn. Pedro believed that the SHs would bring about the dawn. There's no overlap and both can be true. SHs bring it about and Momo leads the world afterwards.
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Now that I see that Ennies Lobby panel, i'm reminded of the fact Luffy sent Franky after a crewmate and he sent Yamato after a non crewmate. It's starting to add up.
- Ignore request
- send after Momo
- pass up on interacting with Franky
- Momo priority
- pour your heart out to Shinobu
- mistakenly eat DF connected to Wano
The evidence is a lot, but I still think Yamato can finally find his resolve to be a SH and make up his mind.
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Yamato believes that Momo will guide the world after the dawn. Pedro believed that the SHs would bring about the dawn.
Uh… where did Yamato say Momo will guide the world after the dawn?
(Actually, now that you reminded me of it, can someone say the chapter in which Yamato says something like that to Momo? I want to check some things there.)
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Yamato most likely will be that friend who can't help himself but spoil the movie because he read the source material it's adapted from. Hopefully the adaptation is a lil different and his spoiling will be kept to a minimum. Role on the ship can be spoiler.
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But she did get focus. She was on like 4 volume covers and one of them was actually named after her. That kinda puts the side character thing to rest if you look at it from that perspective.
I'm talking about story focus. In the story, Carrot didn't have any plot or subplot where she was the focus or even really invested in. She had no conflict with any antagonists or conflict in general or personal ties to the story at hand other than Pedro's death.
This is why I say you cant really compare Carrot to Jimbe. He was a strong supporting character before the time skip. He had his own character arc during Fishman Island. He had his own subplot about no longer being a Big Mom ally during WCI.
Carrot is just a rabbit girl that wanted to go on an adventure and see more of the world. Her main reason for stowing away wasn't cuz she was really invested in getting Sanji back. She had no history with any of the BM pirates. Also apparently she wasn't that affected by Jack's and the Beast pirates attacks on Zou since that hasn't come to mind to her at all.
Jimbe became more than a supporting character after thw timeskip and then eventually was asked and accepted joining the crew. Carrot doesn't seem anything more than a multi-arc ally and side character. There's something left as far as what Pedro's words mean or how she'll interpret them but that's it.
Even with Jinbe, we still haven't gotten a character specific arc (he was in flashbacks during FI, but the royal family and Fisher Tiger were the main characters), a declaration of his dream, know where his scar came from, or things like that. If Oda didn't check all of the boxes with him after this many years, then I'll give him a pass on other characters as well.
Carrot was never set up to be one of the main protagonists on Wano, so her not being front and center doesn't automatically make me come to the conclusion that she's not a valid candidate.
Yeah but she was never a main protagonist in Zou or Whole Cake Island.
When Jinbe disappeared for years, nothing about that changed my mind either, despite people saying he'd die or lose a limb or crap like that.
After WCI, Jimbe had already accepted being a part of the crew. He wasn't going to die off screen. If he showed up missing a limb that'd just be a cool flashback to see.
Given that Neko and Pedro were the only two that really talked about it, I'm expecting something. Pedro was his number two and it's not a coincidence that he was the last one to find out or that he hasn't been on panel with Carrot yet. I'm willing to wait on that. If it never comes, then yeah. Her chances are almost zero then.
Yeah, I'm just not sure Carrot will be involved with it. She's shown zero interest about it to start.
It's making us sympathize with what he's had to go through being shackled by a bad guy like Kaido despite wanting to be free. We didn't need much, though. This is an arc within and arc and not having a character like Yamato would've made things feel slightly off. Even Impel Down (another raid-type arc) had characters like Bon Clay, Ivankov, and Hannyabal to connect with. Someone was needed on Onigashima and I think it's working out just fine.
Yeah but thats all about the main villain. Kaido has treated his son almost as badly as he has treated Wano.
I just don't see her as a link to that island as of the plight isn't all of Wano. Its not comparable the same way to Tama. Her struggle and hardship is representative of all of ppl of the country and has a connection to Momo's goals. Tama is basically child Koza. Yamato's whole character arc like I've said before seems more like Brook's or Chopper's, even Sanji's a bit.
Connecting with a character during an arc and them being the link to the place aren't the same thing to me. Again there really wasn't any struggle in those examples. I've created his own prison level that was an okama paradise. Bon Clay was literally reintroduced rejoicing in his prison cell filled with energy as his climates starved to death. Hannybal's big struggle was finding out a way to make the breakout still happen so Magellan would lose his job and he would be promoted.
He doesn't seem like the typical character from a design or personality standpoint to me.
Like most strawhats.
There are too many things that we see with Yamato that we've seen elsewhere. As for quirks (a defining characteristic for characters), the whole "I'm Oden" thing just doesn't seem that well thought out considering all of the other amazing quirks that we've seen.
But who else is going around saying "I'm Oden"? Where have you seen that elsewhere?
[Quote)Even Ulti's general demeanor and manner of speaking are far better and she won't be around at all after this arc.[/quote]
Speech quirks are a dime a dozen in One Piece. That you like it just means you've fallen for more of the same. Something you're familiar with inna diffrent package.I know that the gender swap was based on Oda-sensei's reading of The Rose of Versailles, but the character itself seems like something the editor recommended. I have zero proof. It just feels like the version of the character that we got wasn't planned out two or three years ago.
Yeah, I just don't put much stock or credibility in this opinion. Just seems very baseless.
Carrot has shown no ability to lead. When she looks to Chopper for advice on what to do…yeah. She also hasn't show any connection at all to anyone on Wano like Tama or Momo. After the arc, she either goes home like Pero said (which I'd have a hard time believing) or she continues on with the SHs. She hasn't established a meaningful relationship with anyone else tbh. It's either home with the minks or the SHs.
That's just cuz she's naive and ignorant. Not everyone is born with leadership skills but that's why they're skills.
Carrot's biggest connection to Wano is by being a mink and through Pedro.
The idea that Carrot will either do what Peros said or join the crew is crazy. Oda has never treated a future strawhat with such disregard and lack of focus. She's gotten little to zero character development this whole time. That just really isn't how he has done it. There aren't any comparisons to current strawhats to say yes he's done something close to this before.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
That's entirely illogical from a storytelling perspective.
No it's not.
Besides I'd say Carrot really hasn't been a part of a lot of the storytelling.
Yamato believes Momo will bring the Dawn so she goes with Luffy, despite spending all her time with Momo.
Wait what?
Momo is bringing the Dawn and not Luffy now? I have no doubt Momo and Wano will play a role but the narrative has been pointing to who Roger is waiting for and who Joyboy has foretold is going to be the person that brings about the dawn.
Momo is important to open Wano's borders. He'll be involved though.
Carrot is told Luffy will bring the Dawn so she'll randomly stay with Momo, a character she has never interacted with. Who's the one grasping now? You're making up a case for Carrot staying with Momo without any basis in the story. See, two can play at your game.
Why do you think Carrot cares about the dawn at all?
I gave more than one reason for why Carrot may stay in Wano. Doesn't have to be about the dawn at all.
I just threw it out there as a possibility. Her caring about the Dawn has no basis in the story. Currently there's no basis to say she would care.
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As Momo thinks about Shinobu's words, someone swoops in and declares they fight for Kozuki.
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As Momo thinks about Shinobu's words, someone swoops in and declares they fight for Kozuki.
I don't really know the point of those panels.
Yamato already said he's fighting for Kozuki, but has also said he wants to leave after Kaido is done. Once Kaido is defeated, there's no more reason to fight for Kozuki.
Incidentally, Luffy has said the same thing in essence. He's fighting for Kozuki as well.
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Can someone give me a brief summary about the current state of this thread?
We're going in circle like some of OP chapters.
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Also, I think it's funny how people forget Carrot herself is already a retainer, with her own duties, but people never really make it a problem.
It's only Yamato that has to decide if he's gonna be a retainer even though he's not and the possibility has never really been brought up.
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As Momo thinks about Shinobu's words, someone swoops in and declares they fight for Kozuki.
If you are trying to find every detail possible that shows a link to the Kouzuki/Wano/Momonosuke, there's one minor thing I've noticed: the way Yamato declares his respect for Shinobu, to the point that he will not leave her behind despite she asking him to leave her. While IMO it has no meaningful impact for or against him joining the crew, it does show deeper pre-existing emotional bond to specific Kouzuki clan members than to any of the Straw Hat crewmates.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
That's entirely illogical from a storytelling perspective. Yamato believes Momo will bring the Dawn so she goes with Luffy, despite spending all her time with Momo. Carrot is told Luffy will bring the Dawn so she'll randomly stay with Momo, a character she has never interacted with. Who's the one grasping now? You're making up a case for Carrot staying with Momo without any basis in the story. See, two can play at your game.
Carrot will just stay with Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. Y'know, her bosses, who will stay by Momo's side.
Again, double standards. Yamato is the one who has to watch out for retainer job when Carrot is already a retainer herself, and her people has issues to solve themselves regarding Zunesha's eventual death and what they will eventually when that time happens. But no, she can just join the Straw Hats as if duty was not something she has to perform.
Again, how does this make any sense? After all, it's not like Carrot has abandoned the musketeers, especially since she still hangs out, works and fights alongside them.
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All those Minks begging to tag along and Carrot just got on the ship as if she didn't need permission. She knows better than that. She begged Pedro and his demand to turn the ship around went nowhere. Oda continues to distance Carrot from retainer duty, while Yamato can't go 5 chapters without being connected to Wano or Momo protection.
Oda had chances for Carrot to link with Momo and just passed up on it. I think he can still do it in the future tho.
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Uh… where did Yamato say Momo will guide the world after the dawn?
(Actually, now that you reminded me of it, can someone say the chapter in which Yamato says something like that to Momo? I want to check some things there.)
He didn't say after. Luffy and the SHs will bring it about if the stories that the minks believe is true. Momo will guide the world afterwards. Chapter 996.
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He didn't say after. Luffy and the SHs will bring it about if the stories that the minks believe is true. Momo will guide the world afterwards. Chapter 996.
I think are reading too much into words that may just have been chosen by the translator. Unless there's a clear semantic distinction in japanese that we need to clarify, I wouldn't give that slight difference in words too much credit.
I may be wrong here, so any corrections are welcome, but I think Pedro said the Straw Hats would "bring the world to its dawn" as well. At least, that's how I remember it, I must find the chapter to check.
And the thing is, Pedro was making an assumption, while Yamato has read spoilers for the whole thing. So between Pedro thinking the Straw Hats will bring the dawn and Yamato attributing it to Momonosuke, I'd go with Yamato's take on the events. The importance of Luffy, to Yamato, is that he'd come to save Wano from Kaido. I think no one with insider knowledge has ever said the Straw Hats would be the ones to bring the dawn.
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All those Minks begging to tag along and Carrot just got on the ship as if she didn't need permission. She knows better than that. She begged Pedro and his demand to turn the ship around went nowhere. Oda continues to distance Carrot from retainer duty, while Yamato can't go 5 chapters without being connected to Wano or Momo protection.
Oda had chances for Carrot to link with Momo and just passed up on it. I think he can still do it in the future tho.
Uh, no?
There you have Carrot beside her boss, still referring to him as "My Lord" and asking for his guidance, like any good old retainer.
I guess this means nothing, but everything Yamato does is?
Double standards.
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I guess the thread is a groundhog day scenario where people get their arguments smacked to bits, hide and then resurface again, thinking that this time around somehow something would have changed by then
Very much this.
Only difference is some arguments are becoming even more fringe and nonsensical.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Something worth mentioning is the fact that Yamato hasn't technically said anything about joining Luffy's crew. She asked to sail with him. Of course the implication is joining the Straw Hats, but it's never outright stated.
Wow! This is new. Playing semantics and technicalities now.
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@Zik:
Wow! This is new. Playing semantics and technicalities now.
Uh… while it's a minor thing, lower in priority to weight meta-hints, Oda does use semantics and technicalities a lot when foreshadowing events or avoiding revealing information too often.
This is even one of the signs that make me expect the Big Mom Pirates will arrive. Marco said "when you get back up, the era will have changed a little". To me, it's a hint that they'll arrive before the era changes completely (i.e.: after the things start to change, but not before Kaido and Big Mom are defeated).
I feel words like "Please, let me join your crew!" are clearer and more assertive than "I'd expect you to let me board your ship" or whatever Yamato actually said directly to Luffy.
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I don't see Momo in that panel. Maybe in the future Carrot and Momo might get put together. For now, there's just Yamato and Momo panels that come from the last 30 chapters.
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I don't see Momo in that panel. Maybe in the future Carrot and Momo might get put together. For now, there's just Yamato and Momo panels that come from the last 30 chapters.
The only time I can remember between Carrot thinking about Momonosuke, and it wasn't even a direct interaction, was when she calmed Kin'emon by saying she, Nami and Shinobu would look for Momonosuke.
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The only time I can remember between Carrot thinking about Momonosuke, and it wasn't even a direct interaction, was when she calmed Kin'emon by saying she, Nami and Shinobu would look for Momonosuke.
Yup, I remember thinking this was a good start to finally get the 2 together in that spoiler thread, but then Shinobu split and ended up with Momo and Yamato in the end.
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Uh… while it's a minor thing, lower in priority to weight meta-hints, Oda does use semantics and technicalities a lot when foreshadowing events or avoiding revealing information too often.
Can't recall him doing this about anybody wanting to join the crew/sail with Luffy.
Seems to be a very useless stance and argument a notch below panel size importance.
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Carrot will just stay with Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. Y'know, her bosses, who will stay by Momo's side.
Again, double standards. Yamato is the one who has to watch out for retainer job when Carrot is already a retainer herself, and her people has issues to solve themselves regarding Zunesha's eventual death and what they will eventually when that time happens. But no, she can just join the Straw Hats as if duty was not something she has to perform.
Again, how does this make any sense? After all, it's not like Carrot has abandoned the musketeers, especially since she still hangs out, works and fights alongside them.
You people shift the goalposts constantly to suit your needs.