If the mist reference is anything to go by, probably the rumbling wiped out everyone except eldians and Eren realizes he made a mistake and everyone he wanted to protect dies in a twisted irony that he could have saved them if he actually tried or something similar
Attack on Titan: Why Genocide Is Sometimes Kind of Okay
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Not the ending I had in mind, but I'll take it over "and then everybody died, hahaha".
As expected of a story of this complexity, the ending has left people with mixed emotions and several things were left out in the open for anyone to interpret. I don't like it when the author leaves some questions without an answer, but I'm going to make an exception with this one.
That said, the last pages were so damn satisfying, IMO. The symbology was strong there, so much that it inspired me to search for a fitting theme.
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In the end I think the one who made it out the best was Historia. She got a family, and still gets to rule the Eldians as a (relatively) unsullied leader.
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Fells to much genocide and fascist apologetic for my taste.
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pretty good ending the only thing i didn't like is the Yimir stuff
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“Ymir stayed with her abuser because she was so in love with him” is itself bad enough to sink the whole thing, but because the whole chapter was a shitpile it’s barely even noticeable.
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pathetic loser eren is good
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If the mist reference is anything to go by, probably the rumbling wiped out everyone except eldians and Eren realizes he made a mistake and everyone he wanted to protect dies in a twisted irony that he could have saved them if he actually tried or something similar
I saw a reddit comment pointing out something like this did happen
! > Dina didn't need to eat Eren's mom, if he had let her eat Bertoldt she'd get the colossal titan, make contact with Grisha, and save Eldia. Let that sink in.
! Eren just had to do nothing. And none of his friends, family or Paradis would have died. But then who knows what Grisha/Dina would've done
Maybe they would've genocided the last 20% too.
! The causal "80% of the world is now dead" reminds me of the "50,000 people on each side died" in the final war of Naruto -
“Ymir stayed with her abuser because she was so in love with him” is itself bad enough to sink the whole thing, but because the whole chapter was a shitpile it’s barely even noticeable.
I suppose you could think of it as a type of Stockholm Syndrome. Or something. Everything about Ymir was supposed to be tragic, so that just made it even more tragic.
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Historia sort of approved the genocide of 80% of the world and is now a leader with no charges to her name so there's that
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I am surprised at the number of people who disliked this ending–I was under the impression that people wanted it to be realistic. And this ending was INCREDIBLY realistic.
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Abuse victim staying with a POS abuser because they're in love with/addicted to them? Yup. Happens all the time
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Eren didn't know how to fix the world, either. He was just doing shit. He came up with an idea that wasn't completely thought out, but your boy only had a few more years to live and selfishly did the idea that would most protect the people closest to him, as anyone would
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When Eren finally cut the shit for a moment and kept it 100 (thanks to Armin's punch), he admitted that of course he loved Mikasa, of course he didn't want to die, and of course he doesn't want her to forget about him; I thought that was a nice moment, and a welcome departure from the ErAizen persona
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Armin called out how stupid Eren's plan was, but by the time he remembered doing so, 80% of the world was already dead; so he had no choice but to make the most of Eren's error/stupidity, as he said (also, Armin wasn't thanking him for killing everyone--he was thanking him for always thinking about them first and foremost)
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Getting rid of the power of the titans didn't automagically fix everything. As Armin said, conflict won't ever just disappear. The Yeagerists would have no choice but to close ranks and prepare for war. The only thing that might actually make things better is diplomacy, and it's always ambiguous whether that will actually work or not, just like this chapter ending.
More thoughts:
--If I'm tracking correctly, Mikasa killing Eren despite being so in love with him somehow broke the curse of the titans caused by the founder's (Ymir's) inability to act outside of her love for OG King Fritz? Why, that's just vague enough to work!
--Those few pages of the Survey Corps salute made the chapter an automatic 10/10 for me! I'm a sucker for a "death had meaningful impact" scenario, so it was nice that the dead actually got to see it! Hooray magic Eldian chakra or whatever.
--And of course, the story ends on "wings of freedom". Eren set out to destroy all the titans, not save the world--and by gum, he did it! And damn did he NOT do it.
--I thoroughly enjoyed this series ending!Wait, series didn't end on mystery baby?! 0/10 waste of everyone's hot takes >:-(
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Naruto would think Eren is the coolest guy.
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I mean it's a nice ending if you like cosy endings without having to think about it and tick all the feels good boxes but it is also incredibly dumb and I really don't think any of the character reactions is realistic at all
I am also 90% sure Isayama could have written something better but intentionally didn't want to.
It's so normal it's bad -
I can't say I have fully figured out my own thoughts on this yet.
But one thing I can say for sure is that the ideas Isayama presented here aren't really bad and flow well with the series. Just that the chapter itself seems rushed as hell.
Not to mention the absence of that final panel that Isayama revealed few years back is a bit weird and the way it ends is just feels a bit "huh? That's it?" moment.
Anyways the over blown reaction to this seems similar to Lost in a way.
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This ending is the equivalent of shitting your pants at school and pretending that was the plan all along.
I'll rate it up there with the likes of Naruto and The Promised Neverland in terms of completely missing the mark for one reason (not knowing what to do with the fantasy world you've built) or another (having grown tired with it).
Truly a last batch of chapters to forget. I'm going to pretend Eren was actually killed by that titan during the first chapters, and everything else was his brain backfiring before he actualy died–it'd explain the increased decreasing of sense this series went through once we left the island.
Eh, fuck it.
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! The causal "80% of the world is now dead" reminds me of the "50,000 people on each side died" in the final war of Naruto
! Wasn't the other side basically Zetsu's clones, Obito and other people that were already dead?
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If the mist reference is anything to go by, probably the rumbling wiped out everyone except eldians and Eren realizes he made a mistake and everyone he wanted to protect dies in a twisted irony that he could have saved them if he actually tried or something similar
feels like…such a dumb story to tell lol
I am surprised at the number of people who disliked this ending–I was under the impression that people wanted it to be realistic. And this ending was INCREDIBLY realistic.
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Abuse victim staying with a POS abuser because they're in love with/addicted to them? Yup. Happens all the time
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Eren didn't know how to fix the world, either. He was just doing shit. He came up with an idea that wasn't completely thought out, but your boy only had a few more years to live and selfishly did the idea that would most protect the people closest to him, as anyone would
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When Eren finally cut the shit for a moment and kept it 100 (thanks to Armin's punch), he admitted that of course he loved Mikasa, of course he didn't want to die, and of course he doesn't want her to forget about him; I thought that was a nice moment, and a welcome departure from the ErAizen persona
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Armin called out how stupid Eren's plan was, but by the time he remembered doing so, 80% of the world was already dead; so he had no choice but to make the most of Eren's error/stupidity, as he said (also, Armin wasn't thanking him for killing everyone--he was thanking him for always thinking about them first and foremost)
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Getting rid of the power of the titans didn't automagically fix everything. As Armin said, conflict won't ever just disappear. The Yeagerists would have no choice but to close ranks and prepare for war. The only thing that might actually make things better is diplomacy, and it's always ambiguous whether that will actually work or not, just like this chapter ending.(
just because it may happens in real life, doesn't make it realistic lol…or entertaining, for that matter
and, no offense, but all you did was pick things that are clearly stated in the chapter. the main complain i've seen around is that the delivery and the development of the ideas presented in the final chapters were rushed and weak. make it all feel uninspired. the ending is not on pair with the series best beats and the narrative style that made it a commercial success is nowhere to be seen.
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feels like…such a dumb story to tell lol
just because it may happens in real life, doesn't make it realistic lol…or entertaining, for that matter
and, no offense, but all you did was pick things that are clearly stated in the chapter. the main complain i've seen around is that the delivery and the development of the ideas presented in the final chapters were rushed and weak. make it all feel uninspired. the ending is not on pair with the series best beats and the narrative style that made it a commercial success is nowhere to be seen.
Big just because you're correct doesn't make you right energy
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I'll rate it up there with the likes of Naruto and The Promised Neverland in terms of completely missing the mark for one reason (not knowing what to do with the fantasy world you've built) or another (having grown tired with it).
Eh, I liked The Promised Neverland ending better than this.
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The thing with The promissed neverland's ending is that it didn't made me hate Emma or Ray (sadly Ray wasn't a character since the escape) during the final arc or the last chapter.
Armin's "thanks for killing 4/5s of the world population for us" just makes me want for Historia to kill him on arrival, not the troops or the Marleian shifters, just Armin.
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Meh, i liked the ending. I didn't LOVE it. That's it.
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Why can't anyone unseat FMA?
It has been decades damnit -
Why can't anyone unseat FMA?
It has been decades damnitThe Hokkaido Cow can only be beat by the King of Pirates. It is know.
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Eren a sniveling loser start to finish.
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Well, Eren himself said Armin was the real hero.
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Why can't anyone unseat FMA?
It has been decades damnitWhich one the manga/brotherhood or “let’s keep fucking over the Elrics & Their Friends the anime”?
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The Hokkaido Cow can only be beat by the King of Pirates. It is know.
Considering that Oda will probably step into some attack on titan stuff because the void century is a little too convenient to be just mass censorship, and aliens, I’m legit dreading the end.
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Why can't anyone unseat FMA?
It has been decades damnitHeh, sacrificing the gate is kinda bullshit too. Everything else was amazing though, so it can be forgiven.
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Considering that Oda will probably step into some attack on titan stuff because the void century is a little too convenient to be just mass censorship, and aliens, I’m legit dreading the end.
Well he already dealt with genocide (Ohara) way better than Isayama.
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Which one the manga/brotherhood or “let’s keep fucking over the Elrics & Their Friends the anime”?
If we think back about it, the ones behind 2003 really approached the series as a Shakespeare kind of tragedy drama angle.
I guess it's because the first arc with Nina and Hughes were so dark and had such an impact back then that the writers thought the entire story should adopt an overly depressed setting.
Which just really isn't the case.Considering that Oda will probably step into some attack on titan stuff because the void century is a little too convenient to be just mass censorship, and aliens, I’m legit dreading the end.
Your reply is pretty much what I thought but I couldn't put it to words. Some days I get very worried about One Piece's ending and in recent years the readability of recent arcs has been getting difficult for me to binge unlike other series. But it's probably just me.
Heh, sacrificing the gate is kinda bullshit too. Everything else was amazing though, so it can be forgiven.
I thought sacrificing the gate fell in line with the themes of the series. I think some guy made a long video on YouTube explaining why but I'm too lazy.
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Heh, sacrificing the gate is kinda bullshit too. Everything else was amazing though, so it can be forgiven.
Maybe not Hohenheim making peace with Ed and then going off to die alone without telling anybody.
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Considering that Oda will probably step into some attack on titan stuff because the void century is a little too convenient to be just mass censorship, and aliens, I’m legit dreading the end.
we just had a time-travel device and it didn't f*ck up the story's flow, so i'm daring to be hopeful
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Titan power vanishing forever has had been a predicted scenario for a long time.But killing 80% human beings,despite knowing that it won't change anything but buying some more time is so f**ked up concept. Ishiyama was so good of a author to make this sort of cheap mistake.Popularity went in his head I guess.
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I thought sacrificing the gate fell in line with the themes of the series. I think some guy made a long video on YouTube explaining why but I'm too lazy.
He could have done it on Day One, he would have done it on Day One (the entire reason Ed becomes a state alchemist is to pursue the retrieval of Al's body), and there is nothing closely connected to it in the final fight or character arc that would justify the sudden enlightening.
A mechanic that leads to the same conclusion does fit well with the themes, I agree. But I have an issue with the execution: Ed simply choosing to sacrifice the gate… just because he figured it out somehow... nah, sorry. It kind of invalidates their whole journey.
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Their journey was essentially already invalidated when they found out what Philosopher stones were made out of and vowednot to use them on principle…......only for Alphonse to use one in the Kimbley/Pride fight and Ed partially turning himself into one to defeat Pride.
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I take ofense on "the sacrifice of the gate invalidates the journey", what did they know about the nature of the gate chapter one? Ed and Al are scientists, without the knowledge they discover throught the story they come to this conclusion that:
- Al's soul can return Ed's arm
- Thus the thing that Ed won when he lost Al's body can be used to recover it (the leg was not!mom I guess)
Sure, he could have done it in chapter one, transmute himself blindly to the gate, try to negociate with the truth when he has no idea what it is, and try to argue about the value of things there without evidence, and lose alchemy in the process, earning the souless body of Al and no idea on how to return a soul to it, as he has no alchemy and they still haven't handled souls at that time.
When they have evidence of Al's body still existing, when they go through gluttony, and it starts being evidence based, not "I have new game plus knowledge" based, at that point they make the point that they need Al's armor body and that Alchemy sure is useful, or else Father would have to pick up Marco, Mei or someone else to fill up Ed's slot, because father wouldn't stop at that time for no one.
It is idiotic to try something that dangerous as Ed did without the evidence, is like going "lol, just eat mold" under a rudimentary knowledge about antibiotics.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Lets us ignore:
When Al (and in some level Ed) weren't sure that Al was real.
That self human transmutation to even get to the gate was something that they discovered in a panicked experiment to escape gluttony.
That they spend the entire series piecing together the truth's nature.
That Al didn't kept the memories of the gate until his near death experience.
That they didn't know how to take things out of the truth's place until Al exchanged himself, just the chapter before Ed did for him.
Then, yeah, they could have tried on chapter one, and have armored Al and souless Al around until they figure out how to move souls safelly,
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I liked the ending. It's better than some other endings because Eren genociding the world didn't fix everything and while everyone grieved him, Armin still said what he did was wrong.
There wasn't a magical turn around on Eren to save him. The world's issues weren't magically solved. While the Titans came back, all of the actual dead people are dead. There is no timeloop.
I think it avoided a lot of the problems a lot of endings have.
Overall, I really liked the story. It did a lot of interesting and unique things with typical tropes.
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He could have done it on Day One, he would have done it on Day One (the entire reason Ed becomes a state alchemist is to pursue the retrieval of Al's body), and there is nothing closely connected to it in the final fight or character arc that would justify the sudden enlightening.
A mechanic that leads to the same conclusion does fit well with the themes, I agree. But I have an issue with the execution: Ed simply choosing to sacrifice the gate… just because he figured it out somehow... nah, sorry. It kind of invalidates their whole journey.
Was it really sudden enlightening or was it just a teenage boy that based his self worth on his alchemy prowess now witnessing people coming together and fighting for each other and fighting for him that in turn touched him and made him realized that through his journey he has made friends and that his self worth should not be entirely based on his alchemy prowess.
Basically, it's the manifestation and realization of what the self really is. Alchemy is highly valued in the world and the brothers based their entire existence on their ability to transmute.
You can say that if you were to take that away from Edward in episode 1 he would have a severe breakdown and we would end the story then and there. It was only after a longass journey and several PTSDs that he realized "hey I have new and more meaningful stuff in my life now so maybe now I'll grow the balls to say fuck it to this ability that the whole world loves and I based my entire worth on."The weight of his sacrifice is also vastly different in chapter 1 and in the final chapter. The depth of his understanding towards alchemy has increased in his journey, he saw how alchemy can be used for wars, human experimentations, literal genocide and immortal monsters. To be honest, it was not as if he always did understood the consequences and value of alchemy.
The very alchemy that the society told him repeatedly he is valued for and is the solution to everything was one that caused him so much emotional pain.When he wanted to revive his mother, alchemy. When he failed and has to stop his brother's soul from disappearing, alchemy When he wants to get their bodies back? alchemy It is literally the innate belief in his world that alchemy is the solution to everything.
Ed in chapter 1 would not have the knowledge, the courage and the experience to sacrifice the key to the solution to all of the world's problems.
It was only after all the shit he has been through that he realized that Alchemy is useful and is the solution to all problems but is also the root of all problems. -
Don't hate the ending like most people seem to do because Attack on Titan never struck me as a story where all characters will get a dedicated conclusion. I can see why people aren't satisfied on that matter but to me it just doesn't matter with this series. Overall I say it's not a terrible ending but certainly not great or on par with how the entire series was.
The thing I don't like is the revelation of Eren's true motives. What I will give it credit for is that it was a conscious decision by Eren to wipe everyone out instead of him being mind controlled and needed to be saved. As I said a few months back, when the genocide started, it appears that this entire series is a villain origin story and we've been tricked to believe that it was a hero's story. So with Eren having full control of his actions that still stands.
What I'm having a problem with is however that the actual heroes to this story now show gratitude to what he did. Ok, I get it. He did it for them. But here lies the problem. That's not a groundbreaking revelation. It was clear from the get go that Eren uses the rumbling for the sake of protecting the Eldians. The only difference now is that he was not aiming to kill 100% of the world but just 80%. That suddenly makes it ok? O.o
Again I appreciate that compared to other villains he doesn't want to destroy for the sake of destruction but because he see's himself as the hero here. That's how you write a villain with depth. That's also why Thanos in Infinity War is so compelling. But at the end of the day the guy has to stay a villain. Let's just continue the comparison to Thanos with this ending. Basically Armin and company now being grateful to Eren is like all of the surviving Avangers actually don't undo the finger snap but be grateful to Thanos for killing 50% of the universe after Thor chopped his head off at the beginning of Endgame. No need to go back in time to undo it because now the universe can flourish. I know that in terms of sheer numbers Thanos killed more but in terms of percantage Eren killed far more and it cannot be undone. And that not being frowned upon by the actual heroes of the story is something I'm having a problem with. Don't like the message here at all.
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I find it hard to believe that none of Eren's friends suffered intense survivor's guilt and/or committed suicide after realizing his motives for everything he'd done.
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Considering all the shit they went through over the course of the series that would've been a bit…..much.
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Doesn't have to go that far but just show some sign that even after the reveal you are not ok with it. I mean they fought and killed Eren in the first place because they are not ok with him killing the entire world for their sake. Literally the only new information they got out of this reveal is "oh, so he didn't hate us after all". They don't even have to go into deep monologues here. Just something like "I'm glad that you don't hate us but I still cannot accept your methods" That would be enough to get the point across.
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the more i think about the ending the more i like it. only a few problems with the execution prevent me from considering AoT a flawless masterpiece instead of a flawed one.
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Doesn't have to go that far but just show some sign that even after the reveal you are not ok with it. I mean they fought and killed Eren in the first place because they are not ok with him killing the entire world for their sake. Literally the only new information they got out of this reveal is "oh, so he didn't hate us after all". They don't even have to go into deep monologues here. Just something like "I'm glad that you don't hate us but I still cannot accept your methods" That would be enough to get the point across.
But that's exactly what Armin said: "I'm grateful you did something this horrible for us, but it's still an error" (Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake. I won't let this error go to waste.)
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It might be a nuance of the transaltion, the crappy fast one seemed lacking, I took it like that but still..
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But that's exactly what Armin said: "I'm grateful you did something this horrible for us, but it's still an error" (Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake. I won't let this error go to waste.)
It might be a nuance of the transaltion, the crappy fast one seemed lacking, I took it like that but still..
Sorry for not being clear. It's exactly as Maxterdexter said it. It's a fast one that seemed lacking plus it's also very unclear on what the "error" actually is. Is the error Eren's method or is the error actually that Eren now looks like a mass murderer while he actually did this to save the world? And even if it is the former. Labeling as an error just somehow has the "well, I guess it can't be helped" feeling to it. To me a "I cannot accept this" a much stronger and clear stance on this being wrong and there's no way how your motivations can make this right feel to it. It carries much more of the "I will stop you not to become heroes but because you're method is just plain wrong" feeling behind it than just labeling it vaguely as an error
Also paired with the panel where Armin says the error thing, his expression to me looks more like he's sad to part ways with his best friend who after all was still his friend instead of showing any signs that this is unacceptable. For instance having Armin have a serious face or even turn his back on Eren would give the scene a totally different feel to it. Hope I could explain the difference a bit better this time around.
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Oh that. I've seen this take around and I can see that. It's a sad farewell to a friend he knew rather than someone who murdered millions. The focus on the following scenes is on everyone getting back their loved ones rather than a somber "is this worth the cost?", but I at least take it over the endings where the bad guy is suddenly forgiven and lives out the rest of his life in peace. The Yeagerists are also painted as the next enemy to fight. I don't think it excuses Eren, but the tonal focus is also probably a little misplaced. I can see that.
Eren killed millions. A shocked face by Armin and a line about what he did was wrong is probably is too little. Just have a big page of Armin yelling at Eren about that. Make it a bigger thing, really.
The translation I'm talking about is this one:!
But we also do get this after all of the crying is done: 
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Yeah, that's what I meant. I get what you mean with it's better than actually forgiving him. To me however this really leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. Still definitely consider this in my top ten manga because of how bold it most of the time was and showing great character moments.
I'm really curious if we will ever get an interview where the original bad ending will be revealed. Now more than ever I'm curious to find out how exactly it would have played out.
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TotallyNotMark gave his thoughts on the matter. It's a pretty interesting take.
