I'm not sure, really.
If Wano is the reason for his drastic change in appearance, like he became some kind of weaboo wanoboo after visiting it, then it's kind of weird how he's kind of ignorant(?) to all the shit happening there?
I mean if a society changed you to the point that you even dress differently, permanently, then you would expect some sort of commitment towards it?
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)
-
-
Well, there is an assumption that Jinbe is linked to Wano.
But while he has definitely clear Japanese influences, the story is being written by a Japanese person and for a primarily Japanese audience. It is a bit odd to insist that every character that has shown Japanese influence in the story must somehow be linked back to the insular and legendary Wano.
Because there are quite a lot of characters in the story that have traits or clothing or such that are tied into traditional Japanese stuff and most of them appear as though they won't even appear at Wano.
All of the Marine Admirals are clearly very, very Japanese from appearance to most of their names– and the one that doesn't have a Japanese name, Borsalino, has an underling who calls him "uncle" and is clearly a sumo wrestler.
And even the admiral naming conventions are clearly taken from the Momotaro story.
Are we to believe that they all came from Wano? For a supposedly "closed off" nation, that is quite inexplicable.
And it isn't just the big names. There are also minor characters like Yosaku, Gin, Kumadori, Fukurou, etc. whose names and manner of dress are so very Japanese.
I suppose whatever explains Kuina/Tashigi or whatever could explain other East Blue clearly Japanese individuals like Yosaku and Gin... but the ones in the World Government are difficult to explain.
Also-- there are quite a lot of Fishmen with very Japanese names and/or clothing styles. So it isn't like it is uniquely limited to Jinbe.
It could suggest a deep, ancient tie between Wano and the Fishmen.
Explaining Jinbe's Japanese influences away as a personal experience just makes it weird that there are so many others that have the same influences but couldn't have had the same personal experiences.
Or, rather, come to think of it-- the Fishmen that do have such influences either directly or indirectly were influenced by Fishertiger-- so maybe he is the one who brought the Wano influence to the nation. -
It's not just about appearance. He has a vast knowledge, including some on Sulong. Something that belongs to the Minks, who are loyal to the Kuzoki clan. Then there's his link to WB. WB and Roger are considered honorable by some from Wano. The connections make it possible, just as much as the appearance and short sword (that you happen to leave out)
-
He didn't have that look his entire flashback. It's something he picked up during the 10 years he was a warlord that we don't know much about. WHich is also when he got his distinctive scar.
Which is why we assume he's getting a secondary more personal flashback related to Wano at some point.
Also, we know Ace was in Wano and they fought at some point, so its not a huge stretch to think maybe they did so there.
Of course, its really hard to see how any of that would actually tie into the current story arc and its so seperate it may need to be held until after Kaidou or something.
He's always been seen wearing the Japanese clothes except for when he was a soldier in service of Neptune, tho.
-
Jimbei can wear what he want, but if he doesn't show up while his new captain goes against TWO emperors at the same time he can go back to Fishman Island
-
Turns out Jinbe is the witching-hour boy and he's been there since the start
-
He's always been seen wearing the Japanese clothes except for when he was a soldier in service of Neptune, tho.
Yes, the earliest picture we have of him is him in a karate gi, and he kept going in robes from there. Fishman karate thing… but even the other users we know of like Hack and Karuubi stick to simple karate gis, they don't go into full blown kimono, and Koala doesn't at all. The key thing is he didn't take up the samurai style topknot and sword until the gap. (Not that we ever see him USING the sword, but...) He had the punk look with the spikey gold hair until then.
-
It's not just about appearance. He has a vast knowledge, including some on Sulong. Something that belongs to the Minks, who are loyal to the Kuzoki clan. Then there's his link to WB. WB and Roger are considered honorable by some from Wano. The connections make it possible, just as much as the appearance and short sword (that you happen to leave out)
Sure, but– in general when designing most Fishmen (though not mermaids), Oda really gave them Japanese names, Japanese clothing styles, Japanese weapons and martial arts and so forth-- far more so than he does with regular humans.
So we can't really say that everything "Japanese" in the series must absolutely link back to Wano. It is after all a Japanese manga made by a Japanese person living in Japan primarily for a Japanese audience for whom Japanese culture is the most normal and natural thing in the world and could be entirely oblivious when something that would seem particularly "Japanese" to someone from another culture is put in the story.
It feels a bit as though "Jinbe personally has a history in Wano" rather overlooks the heavy Japanese influence in the Fishmen we have seen that just could not all come entirely from Jinbe-- it just had to precede him by some time.
Maybe the Fishmen in generally often visited Wano until the Orochi took over– and thus it be totally natural for Jinbe to have history there as any Fishman above the age of 20 could have visited it at some point.
Or... you know... it could just be that because it was written by a Japanese person in Japanese living in Japan, when he wanted to make something cool he didn't really resist drawing on his own nation's imagery and ideas and themes... even though he totally intended for a long time for there to be a specifically samurai nation in his world that was isolated from the rest of the world similar to the Edo Period Japan
-
If, hypothetically, Brook had decided not to move forward but instead go back or something, I don't think Laboon would think any less of him. But Laboon does seem to get some sort of feeling that there's still someone out there, as Crocus notes the whale gets happier for some reason. It seems likely that he's more accepting of the wait than he was before that epiphany.
The promise it really more about Brook than anything. He could go backward, but his pride and loyalty to the Rumbar Pirates' dream won't let him take that easy way out. It's like how Luffy didn't want to hear about what the One Piece really is. It might be simpler to go that way, but we're not following these characters because that take the easy way.
Which is my sentiment. I do not need to pretend Laboon would be any less happy to see Brook return to him after 50 long years because he supposedly came the wrong way, if anything, it matters to Brook, and he himself admits it is mostly because of his pride as a pirate and his thirst for continuing the adventure, of course in connection with simply wanting to join Luffy, which is understandable considering how emotional he was after 50 long years, and there comes a dude who does not even treat him negatively despite being a skeleton.
But the dream itself? Yeah, not necessary to travel with the Strawhats.
-
Sure, but– in general when designing most Fishmen (though not mermaids), Oda really gave them Japanese names, Japanese clothing styles, Japanese weapons and martial arts and so forth-- far more so than he does with regular humans.
So we can't really say that everything "Japanese" in the series must absolutely link back to Wano. It is after all a Japanese manga made by a Japanese person living in Japan primarily for a Japanese audience for whom Japanese culture is the most normal and natural thing in the world and could be entirely oblivious when something that would seem particularly "Japanese" to someone from another culture is put in the story.
It feels a bit as though "Jinbe personally has a history in Wano" rather overlooks the heavy Japanese influence in the Fishmen we have seen that just could not all come entirely from Jinbe-- it just had to precede him by some time.
Maybe the Fishmen in generally often visited Wano until the Orochi took over– and thus it be totally natural for Jinbe to have history there as any Fishman above the age of 20 could have visited it at some point.
Or... you know... it could just be that because it was written by a Japanese person in Japanese living in Japan, when he wanted to make something cool he didn't really resist drawing on his own nation's imagery and ideas and themes... even though he totally intended for a long time for there to be a specifically samurai nation in his world that was isolated from the rest of the world similar to the Edo Period Japan
I pointed out the WB and vast knowledge connections to show you that it's not just the clothing. If it was jut clothing and the scar, I wouldn't even think that it's possible.
-
So, I did not find any thread on the chapter 861's cover page.
That's why I reply about the "cats theory" :
Each cat matches a strawhat.
Here are the proofs :
Monster Trio forming a triangle (in blue) :
Luffy (Same smile and look, acting like a monkey)
Zoro (Always drunk)
Sanji (Right eye closed)
Ladies Trio forming another triangle (in red) :
Nami (Enjoying sunlight)
Robin (Same black hair and attitude)
Carrot (Same face and expression)
Five "single" mugiwaras (in green) :
Jinbe (Same clothes, drinking sake)
Usopp (Always resting/dreaming)
Franky (Goggles on)
Brook (Same suit and the sunglasses = blind/no eyes)
Chopper (Always hiding)
Two muwigaras with special status (in orange) :
Vivi (Always thinking/looking at the sea by her window/balcony)
Going Merry/Thousand Sunny (This is the only cat looking and acting like a real cat, with absolutely no feature, so either it is just a cat in order to fool us, either it represents the soul of the Sunny, the 13th strawhat)
Which means we now know all of the 13 mugiwaras !
AB
BrookCD
ChopperEF
FrankyGH
Going Merry (even if it is now the Thousand Sunny (also named the Sunny Go), it's been said that it kept the soul of the Going, personified by the Klabautermann)IJ
JinbeKL
LuffyMN
NamiOP
Only slot remaining for Carrot, which follows the dream of Pedro (is Carrot her real name ? It looks like a nickname because she is a rabbit and that she loves carrot. Let's wait her flashback, maybe she has a special background with a hidden identity.)QR
RobinST
SanjiUV
UsoppWX
Vivi (pronounced VV, this forms a W. Also, in several languages, the W is called double V and not "double U")YZ
ZoroVivi and the Sunny Go have been defined as mugiwaras in the Vivre Card Databook, this is why they are included in the theory.
Concerning Carrot, countless theories are on the net explaining the 100 reasons why she is going to join. This is fact, if you do not believe it, you have not done research on the subject.
Any thoughts ? :-)
-
Why can't I vote? :sad:
-
Well the "Carrot" cat on the far left looks like Chopper to me. And the black cat on the right is the unknown member. All the other Strawcat depictions fit.
-
Or the umbrella cat could be Perona :ninja:
-
Any thoughts ? :-)
The "Zoro Cat" has this weird belly warmer, just like Cat Viper. Do you know how that piece of cloth is called? Is this a Japanese thing?
-
The left cat has nothing of Chopper, and you can't deny that Chopper is a shy reindeer and hides something, just like in the picture I've added. Come on, it is the same scenography.
And the top cat would never be Perona, she belongs to Moriah and has a very low fighting ability. We already have Brook from Thriller Bark. It's a no. And she doesn't fit at all to the Strawhat crew. And again, just like the picture I've added, it's typically Nami's personnality to have a sunbath.Edit : And the cat is ENJOYING the sun. Perona is like a vampire. She's completly white, she would not be smiling, she would avoid the sun and not be on a chair…
-
So, I did not find any thread on the chapter 861's cover page.
That's why I reply about the "cats theory" :
https://i.ibb.co/Qj32Xn3/CATS.jpg
Each cat matches a strawhat.
Here are the proofs :
Monster Trio forming a triangle (in blue) :
Luffy (Same smile and look, acting like a monkey)
https://i.ibb.co/kXbg76h/Luffy.jpg
Zoro (Always drunk)
https://i.ibb.co/SfqmWzb/Zoro.jpg
Sanji (Right eye closed)
https://i.ibb.co/rQJvnrL/Sanji.jpg
Ladies Trio forming another triangle (in red) :
Nami (Enjoying sunlight)
https://i.ibb.co/hc54mbg/Nami.jpg
Robin (Same black hair and attitude)
https://i.ibb.co/jZX10DC/Robin.jpg
Carrot (Same face and expression)
https://i.ibb.co/VMm3yct/Carrot.jpg
Five "single" mugiwaras (in green) :
Jinbe (Same clothes, drinking sake)
https://i.ibb.co/6sf3V7c/Jinbe.jpg
Usopp (Always resting/dreaming)
https://i.ibb.co/fp6gjHS/Usopp.jpg
Franky (Goggles on)
https://i.ibb.co/WfVGpgK/Franky.jpg
Brook (Same suit and the sunglasses = blind/no eyes)
https://i.ibb.co/8zT7rq0/Brook.jpg
Chopper (Always hiding)
https://i.ibb.co/DVVRGr8/Chopper.jpg
Two muwigaras with special status (in orange) :
Vivi (Always thinking/looking at the sea by her window/balcony)
https://i.ibb.co/GPZCn7W/Vivi.jpg
Going Merry/Thousand Sunny (This is the only cat looking and acting like a real cat, with absolutely no feature, so either it is just a cat in order to fool us, either it represents the soul of the Sunny, the 13th strawhat)
https://i.ibb.co/vL6tW2H/Going.png
Which means we now know all of the 13 mugiwaras !
AB
BrookCD
ChopperEF
FrankyGH
Going Merry (even if it is now the Thousand Sunny (also named the Sunny Go), it's been said that it kept the soul of the Going, personified by the Klabautermann)IJ
JinbeKL
LuffyMN
NamiOP
Only slot remaining for Carrot, which follows the dream of Pedro (is Carrot her real name ? It looks like a nickname because she is a rabbit and that she loves carrot. Let's wait her flashback, maybe she has a special background with a hidden identity.)QR
RobinST
SanjiUV
UsoppWX
Vivi (pronounced VV, this forms a W. Also, in several languages, the W is called double V and not "double U")YZ
ZoroVivi and the Sunny Go have been defined as mugiwaras in the Vivre Card Databook, this is why they are included in the theory.
Concerning Carrot, countless theories are on the net explaining the 100 reasons why she is going to join. This is fact, if you do not believe it, you have not done research on the subject.
Any thoughts ? :-)
The big cat looks like Thousands Sunny.
-
The left cat has nothing of Chopper, and you can't deny that Chopper is a shy reindeer and hides something, just like in the picture I've added. Come on, it is the same scenography.
And the top cat would never be Perona, she belongs to Moriah and has a very low fighting ability. We already have Brook from Thriller Bark. It's a no. And she doesn't fit at all to the Strawhat crew. And again, just like the picture I've added, it's typically Nami's personnality to have a sunbath.To be honest I'm not actually serious about Perona joining (hence the ninja smiley) though that would be the most hilarious outcome ever if you ever read this thread back in the thriller bark days of AGOG
I'm just saying you could endlessly speculate who is who on this cat cover, only a few of them are actually obvious (jinbei, brook, Franky and Zoro) the others are all up to one's imagination
-
The big cat looks like Thousands Sunny.
YES !
Nekomamushi could represent the Thousand Sunny, that's why most of the cats are lying on him
@Shiebs : If you pay attention, I disagree, each cat has a feature and can be pair up with a strawhat, like I wrote in the description.
-
The left cat has nothing of Chopper, and you can't deny that Chopper is a shy reindeer and hides something, just like in the picture I've added. Come on, it is the same scenography.
Chopper is drawn cute like that for years and lost his shyness during the timeskip. Did you see Carrot ever lying around somewhere? She is always jumping or watching in awe. Sry but this doesn't fit at all.
-
Chopper is drawn cute like that for years and lost his shyness during the timeskip. Did you see Carrot ever lying around somewhere? She is always jumping or watching in awe. Sry but this doesn't fit at all.
Chopper still feels fear, just like recently with Big Mom's behaviour. Maybe not shyness anymore, but still enough feelings to hide when he's freaked out. And it's a hint to his past personnality.
Yes, I saw Carrot lying several times, when she was on the Thousand Sunny, she's not always jumping around. It is a cover page, this is a "photography", Zoro is not using his sword, Sanji is not cooking… To my point of view, it 100% fits.
But I respect your arguments, you may also be right ! ;-)
-
I'm just dying to know who is the 11th member like everyone else :)
-
Chopper still feels fear, just like recently with Big Mom's behaviour. Maybe not shyness anymore, but still enough feelings to hide when he's freaked out. And it's a hint to his past personnality.
Yes, I saw Carrot lying several times, when she was on the Thousand Sunny, she's not always jumping around. It is a cover page, this is a "photography", Zoro is not using his sword, Sanji is not cooking… To my point of view, it 100% fits.
But I respect your arguments, you may also be right ! ;-)
So I take it your in the Carrot will join camp
-
I am, not because I love the character or believe in her, but you just have to type "Carrot nakama" on Google and you will easily find Youtube videos and forum theories about it.
About her role in the crew, about her matching character scheme with the Strawhat crew (color, relationships, symbols…), about the fruit she will eat, about who she will fight in the BB crew and why.For me there is no fault in what I read. I don't even want to talk about the details, it would be spoiler for you if you have not read it lol
-
Seems like the Vivi, Robin, Chopper and Going Merry guesses in the very tenuous and not particularly convincing. Even the Luffy, Sanji and Usopp ones not at all obvious in isolation and only when one insists that one of these has to be those characters can one just sort of assign the identity. But not so clearly that it absolutely couldn't have been meant to be one of the others.
Maybe the one with only one eye labeled "Sanji" there was meant to represent Pedro and the one cleaning its face was meant to be Sanji.
But the few that have clothing or accessories to reinforce their identity are obviously there representing those particular members.
And I don't feel like the letter theory matches up either as only one of those two letters is really connected with the characters at all.
Maybe if you didn't insist that the letters be consecutive?I still feel like it is way too late for there to be any more "Straw Hats". There are only a couple adventures left.
Think of all the characters who have gotten on a ship with Luffy and gone from one island to the next island to participate in his net adventure. Not the ones who were on one island and had their adventure there and then Luffy left without them, but who actually sailed with Luffy as part of his entourage or crew.
Koby, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Yasoku, Johnny, Vivi, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Boa(?), Caribou, Kinemon, Momonosuke, Ceasar, Law, Carrot, Pedro
What is kind of weird in retrospect is that Jaya/Skypeia is the only story in the entire saga where Luffy didn't come away with even a temporary new crewmate. It is a bit odd that they didn't meet anyone in Skypeia who would be interested in exploring the world below and go with them to Water 7 given the flow of the story until that point.
Anyway, even putting aside that two of those were prisoners, is anyone who sails away with the Straw Hats from Wano or Elbaf really going to be any more deserving of the title of "proper Straw Hat pirate" than all those that traveled with Luffy and took part in multiple adventures before.
Even if, if, there is some not-obvious adventure that takes place between Wano and Elbaf or Elbaf and Raftel (one would suppose the Straw Hats should eventually face this "Vegapunk" character who trained Ceasar and Judge and has been lurking in the background for ages)– that's only 2-3 adventures such a character could join up for before they reach Raftel.
If there were going to be more "core crew" then they should have appeared much earlier in the story-- in the very least prior to the time skip so that they would have that time to show the dedication of training for 2 years and then meeting back up.
-
I am, not because I love the character or believe in her, but you just have to type "Carrot nakama" on Google and you will easily find Youtube videos and forum theories about it.
About her role in the crew, about her matching character scheme with the Strawhat crew (color, relationships, symbols…), about the fruit she will eat, about who she will fight in the BB crew and why.By that logic, the Earth is flat, vaccines cause autism and we're all ruled by a handful of lizard people who reveal themselves to the public by throwing their symbols everywhere and yet are somehow a secret organization.
-
By that logic, the Earth is flat, vaccines cause autism and we're all ruled by a handful of lizard people who reveal themselves to the public by throwing their symbols everywhere and yet are somehow a secret organization.
That’s the fight of every scientist and theorist, trying to convince people. Any side can be right or wrong until the answer is given.
Earth being round was a theory at the beginning, just saying !
-
Carrot would be a major combobreaker regarding anything unique in the new Nakamas. Franky isn't called Planky, Brook isn't called Boneman, Chopper isn't called RedNose, Jimbei isn't called BigFish, not to mention the other Strawhats..
A bunny named Carrot, holy shit is this lazy. You'd think Oda can do better.
-
Oh great, the stupid name theory again.
That completely disregards characters having both first and last names.
And has to come up with an insane excuse to not have Carrot and Chopper in the same branch.
And change Vivi's name to start with a different letter.
And includes the old boat but not the new boat. Unless maybe it uses a random word in the name. And doesn't understand that all boats end in -go.Once you have to make that many exceptions to make your pattern work, its not actually a pattern anymore.
See also the theory that insists the strawhats will have 13 members, and join in a consistent MFMM pattern, even though that falls apart the instant you include Luffy or actually put them side by side.
See also the theory that insists they all have two syllable names, that falls apart when you know Franky is three syllables in japanese.
Yeah, Oda's not going to have the names overlap in similarity if he can help it, but he's not doing a crazy mathematical formula to get there.
He miiiight be doing that with the devil fruits after someone pointed out the 2.9 thing, but there's really limited options there.
-
Carrot would be a major combobreaker regarding anything unique in the new Nakamas. Franky isn't called Planky, Brook isn't called Boneman, Chopper isn't called RedNose, Jimbei isn't called BigFish, not to mention the other Strawhats..
A bunny named Carrot, holy shit is this lazy. You'd think Oda can do better.
And the monkey-like main character isn't called Monkey… oh.. umm..
Well, the guy who tells lies all the time is not called "Liar"... except... you know... in the actual language the story is written in.
And the person who navigates the ships through the waves is not called "Wave"... you know.. unless you can speak or read a basic level Japanese and realize that's exactly what her name is.Well, at least the the two characters who are always smoking don't have the word "Smoke" in their names!!... oh, one always did and the other one does too as of Whole Cake Island revealing his family name?
Well, at least, at LEAST, the guy who uses swords isn't named after a sword or a famous historical swordsman like Musashi or Lancelot or Zorro......
And the big artificial guy with bolts coming out of him,, animated by science isn't called some variation of "Frankenstein"... except... no, no-- he is.
You know-- upon reflection of the evidence, it seems your comment is just as dumb and silly as the names of the characters since basically the first chapter.
-
That’s the fight of every scientist and theorist, trying to convince people. Any side can be right or wrong until the answer is given.
Earth being round was a theory at the beginning, just saying !
That's… not how science works. At all.
You form theories based on evidence. You don't make up evidence to suit a theory.
Earth being round was not a "theory". They noticed that things shrink going over the horizon and did the math and figured out it was round. Thousands of years ago. "People thought the earth was flat" was never actually a prevalent opinion, that's just something they teach children in schools to make them feel like they're smarter than Columbus was. (Columbus knew the world was round. He just didn't know there was a second group of continents) Right next to "Washington never told a lie and his most prevalent features were chopping down a cherry tree and having wooden teeth."
-
And the monkey-like main character isn't called Monkey… oh.. umm..
Well, the guy who tells lies all the time is not called "Liar"... except... you know... in the actual language the story is written in.
And the person who navigates the ships through the waves is not called "Wave"... you know.. unless you can speak or read a basic level Japanese and realize that's exactly what her name is.Well, at least the the two characters who are always smoking don't have the word "Smoke" in their names!!... oh, one always did and the other one does too as of Whole Cake Island revealing his family name?
Well, at least, at LEAST, the guy who uses swords isn't named after a sword or a famous historical swordsman like Musashi or Lancelot or Zorro......
And the big artificial guy with bolts coming out of him,, animated by science isn't called some variation of "Frankenstein"... except... no, no-- he is.
You know-- upon reflection of the evidence, it seems your comment is just as dumb and silly as the names of the characters since basically the first chapter.
Ah good to know. Suddenly after 15 years Oda goes back to his old naming patterns.
-
I am, not because I love the character or believe in her, but you just have to type "Carrot nakama" on Google and you will easily find Youtube videos and forum theories about it.
This is what you guys enabled by not closing registration during the orojackson exile, now we're all going to the bad place
-
Honestly I would have zero problem with Carrot joining (I actually like her a lot) I was just swayed by what I thought were superior arguments on the anti-carrot side
the only reason I don't want her to join now is because of how damn cocky some of her supporters are (not all, just some)
I suppose they probably feel the same way about us though
-
Carrot supporter that I am, I'd be all for finding some new evidence in some cover or color spread or something like that. But the cats? Sorry, Lumoon, I just don’t see it. Way too tenuous a connection there. If any of those cats was supposed to be representing some character specifically, Oda would have given them something stone cold identifiable: Luffy’s hat, Nami’s tattoo as a spot, maybe, Jinbe’s teeth. As it is, they just seem like moderately distinct cats doing normal cat things. Keep looking, though!
-
That’s the fight of every scientist and theorist, trying to convince people. Any side can be right or wrong until the answer is given.
Earth being round was a theory at the beginning, just saying !
You know that there is a difference between a theory and a scientific theory, right? And scientists certainly don't "fight" to convince people lol, they don't need to if their scientific work was done right.
-
Calling conspiracy theories science.
Current particle models try to fill the voids on the weird table of particles because their behaviour and observed characteristics indicate that in order to form they need their counterpart.
Crew models have to go against established author comments, and apply a conditional model that is stretched in order to fit the knowns, and with a flabby groundwork tries to find the unknown.
The name theory is like trying to predict tungsten out of fire earth water and air.
-
You know that there is a difference between a theory and a scientific theory, right? And scientists certainly don't "fight" to convince people lol, they don't need to if their scientific work was done right.
When did this happen?
-
When did this happen?
Well, I guess they "fight" ignorant people who refuse to acknowledge scientific evidence in favor of their conspiracy theories, but I don't consider it a fight to convince them, just like playing chess against a pigeon is not actually a chess match.
-
Well, I guess they "fight" ignorant people who refuse to acknowledge scientific evidence in favor of their conspiracy theories, but I don't consider it a fight to convince them, just like playing chess against a pigeon is not actually a chess match.
It depends. Of course the scientific community accepts once it´s done right, but there are a lot of people refusing to believe due to many different reasons, ignorance, agendas, negligence and so forth.
-
Based on my experience, most of the "theories" in the OP community aren't theories. They're more of "I would like for this to happen". So when you present proof and question decisions made by Oda in the story, those same individuals use their "I want this to happen" way of thinking to judge theories. Look at forum and Youtube comments for most "theories". They mostly start off as "I would like for this to happen", instead of "I cannot or can see this happening".
I had a discussion about this once and when I said that I go by what I see compared to those that go by what they'd like to happen, the response was "how could you care to make a theory that you don't want to come true"? I can't see myself presenting an idea as a theory unless it has at least 3 pieces of manga evidence. It's speculation or headcanon for the most part until then.
The whole vote for who you want goes by that same way of thinking. There's nothing wrong with wanting something to happen in your favorite stories. I just feel that it's weird to debate someone who is going off manga proof while your primary motive is that you rather not have things go that way. Especially if the best counter arguments are strong like Carrot lacking a dream or alternative where she is part of a Mink or Kozuki crew.
-
It depends. Of course the scientific community accepts once it´s done right, but there are a lot of people refusing to believe due to many different reasons, ignorance, agendas, negligence and so forth.
ignorance- they're wrong
agendas- they're actively choosing to be wrong
negligence-also wrongNone of those are legitimate counterpoints. If the science is right, and its been tested and proven, then its right. There's opportunity for there to be gaps in something that get filled later which refine an old understanding, but its rare that something actually proven turns provably wrong. Mostly its old theories based on pure conjecture that get debunked over time.
-
ignorance- they're wrong
agendas- they're actively choosing to be wrong
negligence-also wrongNone of those are legitimate counterpoints. If the science is right, and its been tested and proven, then its right. There's opportunity for there to be gaps in something that get filled later which refine an old understanding, but its rare that something actually proven turns provably wrong. Mostly its old theories based on pure conjecture that get debunked over time.
Nobody claimed scientists are wrong, or that those not believing or purposely denying the science are not wrong, it´s about the willingness of people to accept scientifically proven facts and the fight often time scientists have to go through to make them common knowledge, and those three, ignorance, agenda and negligence are often the most biggest challenges for those that have to do exactly that.
-
Yeah, but it doesn't make the ignorant people any more right. The correct answer is STILL the correct answer, no matter what your opinion is.
-
Carrot supporter that I am, I'd be all for finding some new evidence in some cover or color spread or something like that. But the cats? Sorry, Lumoon, I just don’t see it. Way too tenuous a connection there. If any of those cats was supposed to be representing some character specifically, Oda would have given them something stone cold identifiable: Luffy’s hat, Nami’s tattoo as a spot, maybe, Jinbe’s teeth. As it is, they just seem like moderately distinct cats doing normal cat things. Keep looking, though!
Well, I don't think that is quite fair. Some of those cats are pretty well mimicking members of the cast. Zoro, Brooks and Jinbe have really obvious parallels there and Nami is only slightly less so.
So when Oda sketched it, he may have been intending for the other cats to represent crew members too. And maybe he thought it was "obvious", but it isn't. Or maybe he intended to be subtle with all of them, but then he couldn't think of a good way to do some subtly and so he made them really obvious.But even so– even if the cats were meant to represent various members of the cast or even the Going Merry crew, that in no way indicates that he had already decided who the final totally official members of the crew are going to be when they hit Raftel and there are just 3 or so that he really should have introduced into the story ages ago and is still putting off despite the finish line being well in sight.
He easily could have intended for it to include the current temporary crew members or even those who were relevant to the story.
I feel like to even propose something like that, one would have to go way, way back in the chapters before Franky and Brook ever joined and find something that represented 13 members and very clearly indicates Brook, Franky, Jinbe, etc. even way back then.
But I really don't feel like we have good indication that he really planned every detail like that.
I think he even admitted that things like the Supernovas introduced in Saobody were put there without any sort of real plan as to what to do with them, but he just wanted that arc to feel like a big deal so he threw in this idea of Luffy having all these big rivals. Just to make it feel like the Straw Hats weren't really so much bigger than everyone else and that the New World was going to be even bigger with Luffy having real competition for the title of Pirate King.Oda certainly has an outline and a checklist and ideas for where he wants to go, but the details are likely sparse before he gets there. And likely the reason why later Straw Hat members have been a bit marginalized and don't mesh as well is because they struck him as good ideas at the time, but he didn't really have good, concrete plans for what to do with them.
-
Koby will join after the reverie. He was the first one before Zorro. His desire is to become an admiral but after the reverie he will realize that the navy is the wrong party. He should be Garp 2.0 and this renounced the Admiral position. Koby could do that, too. Why? Maybe because Garp could die. Garp and Roger were rivals and friends, and Luffy and Koby are really just friends. He has a lot of knowledge in all areas and could answer the question of the vice. Garp was a former pirate in Romance Dawn and maybe Oda will pick it up. Garp certainly had a reason to go to the Navy. And Koby because pirates are bad but he knows a better example with Luffy.
-
I think that is unlikely as it isn't as though Koby is the sole Marine with good intentions.
Well, even Akainu likely has good intentions, he is just willing to kill entire islands or his own troops for minor transgressions in order to stop every single last pirate in the world and prevent the fall of the government that serves as the only barrier to everyone being victimized by criminals.
But Koby isn't the only Marine who is also not willing to become as bad as what he is fighting to achieve those good intentions. In fact, most of the Marines seem to be generally good people who genuinely aim to serve and protect others. Even the Revolutionary Army's commanders don't think of the Marines as the real enemy and don't go out of their way to attack them.
Unfortunately there is some messed up stuff, primarily coming from the Celestial Dragons, that the Marines have to accept as "for the greater good"– stuff they can't really do much about right now, but ultimately the amount of good they can do tips the balance in favor of continuing to serve. Then again, the majority of the Marines probably don't even know about the slavery or underground weapons trade or child trafficking that the organization, or those related to it, engage in. All they know is that if they don't get out there and stop the pirates, every village and island across the world is going to be ruled over by some petty despot who got just enough power to abuse the town.
So Koby swinging from Marine to Pirate, especially after being kept a slave by pirates for two years and only been given the opportunity to become what he has within the Marines, it would seem very odd for him to decide to abandon everything and become the thing he hates most. In fact, when it comes to Luffy he likely makes the justification that while Luffy and crew call themselves pirates, they don't engage in any actual piracy and instead and pretty much doing what the Marines would do if they didn't have to answer to the World Government.
It is likely the Marine organization will survive to the end of the story, they just won't be answering to the Celestial Dragons anymore, and Koby will be a major player in it. And they will still be the main force out there fighting the pirates that are actually stealing from and murdering people across the world.
-
If MF didn't make Koy leave, I don't think anything will. Also, it would be a disappointment to Luffy if Koby's will was weak enough to fall because he didn't agree with everything. Gotta fond his own justice and follow through
-
Well, I don't think that is quite fair. Some of those cats are pretty well mimicking members of the cast. Zoro, Brooks and Jinbe have really obvious parallels there and Nami is only slightly less so.
So when Oda sketched it, he may have been intending for the other cats to represent crew members too. And maybe he thought it was "obvious", but it isn't. Or maybe he intended to be subtle with all of them, but then he couldn't think of a good way to do some subtly and so he made them really obvious.Am I being unfair to you personally or what? It's unfair to want something more than maybe some cats are obvious, maybe Oda gave up halfway? I could say the cat in goggles is Lindbergh and the cat in the open shirt is Belo Betty, does that make it foreshadowing too?
-
Caribou has shown slight signs, somewhat similar to Robin and Franky. Its funny how Luffy seems cool with him now.. unlike ceaser