Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)

[Triceron]

@Solid:

I'm pretty sure she will get her spotlight and redeem herself in this arc, she is probably only behind Luffy and Zoro in panel time, thanks to act 1. and even in act 2 she got a pretty important role.
Or do you mean grow up like physically? I think it fits with having straw hats from different generations, and we already have several older generation members, but none one generation younger than Luffy, and it is a cool contrast for when Jinbei finally ends up on the ship, him being the most experienced pirate, and Tama having basically zero experience.
Doflamingo had a 10-year-old (biologically) so why not?

I disagree.

1. Luffys own experience is what we should value in crewmembers. He, Ace and Sabo may have been rebellious kids who wanted to become pirates, but they didnt so so until coming of age. This was a huge part of the reason he couldnt join Shanks crew, and the reason the story is set when he is mature and ready to go on on an adventure. I would also like to think Sabos early death would have been a lesson of the risks of pirating at a young age- Luffy understands the value of being able to protect his crew as well as trust his crew to protect themselves and each other. Characters like Tama and Momo are shown to be defenseless the entire time.

2. Doflamingo is a bad guy who exploits children because of his own history exploited as a child by Trebol. He has a twisted world view. He is not a good example to follow.

3. They are in the new world now they need to add stronger members with experience to upkeep that idea that they are jn a dangerous place. Kids (and sometimes old people) in OP are generally treated as macguffins. They represent the defenseless that are exploited by powerful enemies, the ones that Luffy saves to show he is the hero. Kids on the crew would make the world feel less dangerous since a kid can join the pirate adventure in the new world. Its a mixed message and a hard sell.

4. New crewmember should be stronger than any Strawhat ally we met in Dressrosa. There, we had any number of potential crewmates, but as strong or popar as they are, none joined directly. I think this is why Jinbei works as a member, he has rank and experience and can still join in the younger teams fun. Kids like Tama or Momo would add little to the crew unless they physically grow up. Otherwise Nami or Usopp being saved by a kid would forever put them to shame. And if the kid needs saving, they will be unpopular as a crewmate. At least older members have the guise of experience to let them do heroic things even if they are not strong, but a child does not have that yet and we are beyond giving a new character room to grow (physically) in the series. We are building up to Blackbeard

I mean its not like Oda adds a lot of crewmembers. Its been YEARS since the last one joined, no one wants a weak new member after all this time.

[Solid]

@otakufan:

I'm not saying that beast-taming and Pokemon Master…y cannot be a versatile and powerful skill set to have - given the right collection of critters, it absolutely can (especially if some of them munched on a Devil Fruit).

The issue I see with it is that it does not leave very much room for O-tama to show off and develop her own personal skills, particularly as those skills are presently nonexistent. That means her future development would be tied almost exclusively to her beast-taming powers and not to her actual dream of becoming an "enchanting kunoichi". The Strawhats could certainly teach her to be scrappy and independent, but I don't think they can train her to be a ninja, at least in the "anime" sense... Nami's skills as a master thief and Robin's intelligence gathering would probably go a long way for a "real world" ninja, but teaching anime-style "ninjutsu" (even if nothing as flashy and over-the-top as Naruto) isn't something I think they can do. If Tama really wants to go down that road, she needs training and time, and the Wano arc cannot realistically give her enough of that.

A version of O-tama capable of using her beast-taming powers in conjunction with low-level ninja skills would be far more viable to my eyes, but she doesn't feel like she has enough to work with right now.

Oh, ok.

When the mystery of the giant straw hat from marijoa comes into play that's at least one opportunity that she could show off her existing skills, and I think it is okay to assume that she could have more to her df power than we have seen, considering the versatility of most paramecia dfs. There's also the quote from Hitetsu, "you don't even rise to the level of a novice", which at least implies that she has undergone some kind of training (probably throwing kibidangos lol), and maybe she will be a novice by the end of the arc.

About her dream, a shinobi in Wano is easy to define, O-Nami is apparently a kunoichi, and the only typical ninja skills we have seen Shinobu use is stealth and the flying kite (correct me if I'm wrong). I guess we will find out more what it means being a shinobi in Wano when Orochis ninja bodyguards start fighting, but even them seems to have a wide variation in their skills going by their design, maybe Tama wearing kunoichi clothes, being stealthy and agile is enough to be considered a kunoichi.

The way Tama was promising Ace to be an enchanting kunoichi I interpret it more of her being scrappy and independent like you wrote, it was like a way of Tama saying I'll be strong so I can join your crew.
Her being "enchanting", beautiful/hot basically is only achievable when she grows up, which would make her accomplish her dream in the epilogue of one piece, just like Nami and probably Brook and Jinbei.

And if we go by Naruto standards, there are a few characters that fights with the use of animals like Kiba, Shino and those big frogs and snakes duking it out.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Triceron:

I disagree.

1. Luffys own experience is what we should value in crewmembers. He, Ace and Sabo may have been rebellious kids who wanted to become pirates, but they didnt so so until coming of age. This was a huge part of the reason he couldnt join Shanks crew, and the reason the story is set when he is mature and ready to go on on an adventure. I would also like to think Sabos early death would have been a lesson of the risks of pirating at a young age- Luffy understands the value of being able to protect his crew as well as trust his crew to protect themselves and each other. Characters like Tama and Momo are shown to be defenseless the entire time.

2. Doflamingo is a bad guy who exploits children because of his own history exploited as a child by Trebol. He has a twisted world view. He is not a good example to follow.

3. They are in the new world now they need to add stronger members with experience to upkeep that idea that they are jn a dangerous place. Kids (and sometimes old people) in OP are generally treated as macguffins. They represent the defenseless that are exploited by powerful enemies, the ones that Luffy saves to show he is the hero. Kids on the crew would make the world feel less dangerous since a kid can join the pirate adventure in the new world. Its a mixed message and a hard sell.

4. New crewmember should be stronger than any Strawhat ally we met in Dressrosa. There, we had any number of potential crewmates, but as strong or popar as they are, none joined directly. I think this is why Jinbei works as a member, he has rank and experience and can still join in the younger teams fun. Kids like Tama or Momo would add little to the crew unless they physically grow up. Otherwise Nami or Usopp being saved by a kid would forever put them to shame. And if the kid needs saving, they will be unpopular as a crewmate. At least older members have the guise of experience to let them do heroic things even if they are not strong, but a child does not have that yet and we are beyond giving a new character room to grow (physically) in the series. We are building up to Blackbeard

I mean its not like Oda adds a lot of crewmembers. Its been YEARS since the last one joined, no one wants a weak new member after all this time.

1. But then we have Shanks himself who was at Rogers crew when he was 12, years younger than both Ace and Luffy when they went out pirating.

2. Agreed, but still an example nonetheless, and more so an example of the diversity of appearances between the crewmembers.

3. The main message of One Piece is still the romance of adventures, which I do think a lot of fans get wrong, more so now than before since a lot of Naruto and Bleach readers when over to One Piece.

4. Law, Kid and other potential allies and Jinbei as a strawhat fulfill those roles easily. Maybe unpopular among the fandom communities, but the majority of the one piece readers are casuals. Having a younger, inexperienced, disciple-like member of a group is actually a staple role in most epic stories and it's missing within the strawhats.

[NamiRobinFrankyAce]

#OTama2020 i vote for her

[Shiebs]

@S.C.:

I wonder if Tama could make weapons out of her dango?

@K.:

Shuriken dumplings!

Now I want to see a rasenshuriken made out of dango

[Triceron]

@Solid:

1. But then we have Shanks himself who was at Rogers crew when he was 12, years younger than both Ace and Luffy when they went out pirating.

Fair enough. I agree with you about Shanks, 12 is a young age and he fit as a cabinboy alongside Buggy.

However, Tama is still 8 years old, and with her personality in mind, I personally think she is too young to meet this criteria. She's one year older than Luffy in Chapter 1. I think it's important to illustrate the tone set since the very beginning - Luffy did not set sail or join Shank's crew as cabin boy at the age of 7. He waited 10 years of training and growth before he set out to sea. Shanks losing an arm to save Luffy, who was incapable of protecting others let alone himself, is a very strong theme within this series.

I think it would be somewhat irresponsible of Luffy to allow such a young character to join the crew this stage in the series, after all he's been through. It made sense in the Grand Line when the stakes are low, but after losing people he's a much more mature character. He can give Tama the respect and treatment of an adult, but I think he would want her to grow on her own first, much like how he treated Coby.

TBH though, I don't really understand what Oda's thoughts are on making Tama a girl that young. It wouldn't have been unreasonable to make her Kiku or Hiyori's age, given that Tama also has a history with Ace and was already too young back then. 8 years old in current arc is still really young.

3. The main message of One Piece is still the romance of adventures, which I do think a lot of fans get wrong, more so now than before since a lot of Naruto and Bleach readers when over to One Piece.

I agree with this, but I don't think adding a young character makes it any more or less of an adventure. I have no problem with younger characters tagging along for the ride and providing support where they can, and we've had a lot of that with Momo. When it comes to the crew, I don't think that works. Again, nothing against Tama as a character, but her young age certainly sends out a mixed message out there for what an 8yr old is or should be capable of.

At this stage of the series, we're literally fighting the Yonkou. I don't think the crew has room for anything less than Vice Admiral level characters. This is not just in terms of power level, but in terms of characters that would reasonably be made a Vice Admiral. Age, maturity, power, ability and personality all factoring.

4. Law, Kid and other potential allies and Jinbei as a strawhat fulfill those roles easily. Maybe unpopular among the fandom communities, but the majority of the one piece readers are casuals. Having a younger, inexperienced, disciple-like member of a group is actually a staple role in most epic stories and it's missing within the strawhats.

Chopper has been that character for the majority of the series. He was the youngest member and a complete fish-out-of-water.

[Solid]

@Triceron:

Fair enough. I agree with you about Shanks, 12 is a young age and he fit as a cabinboy alongside Buggy.

However, Tama is still 8 years old, and with her personality in mind, I personally think she is too young to meet this criteria. She's one year older than Luffy in Chapter 1. I think it's important to illustrate the tone set since the very beginning - Luffy did not set sail or join Shank's crew as cabin boy at the age of 7. He waited 10 years of training and growth before he set out to sea. Shanks losing an arm to save Luffy, who was incapable of protecting others let alone himself, is a very strong theme within this series.

I think it would be somewhat irresponsible of Luffy to allow such a young character to join the crew this stage in the series, after all he's been through. It made sense in the Grand Line when the stakes are low, but after losing people he's a much more mature character. He can give Tama the respect and treatment of an adult, but I think he would want her to grow on her own first, much like how he treated Coby.

TBH though, I don't really understand what Oda's thoughts are on making Tama a girl that young. It wouldn't have been unreasonable to make her Kiku or Hiyori's age, given that Tama also has a history with Ace and was already too young back then. 8 years old in current arc is still really young.

Yeah, I sort of agree with the age thing. But considering how 16-years olds looks in the One Piece world, Id guess thats just an age that Oda thinks fits for a kid. She would also represent an unrepresented generation the crew, and Tama being that short fits aethestically better in group shots than her being one head shorter than Luffy imo. It could also be a thing of her needing to be the same age as Momo or a timeline thing.

I agree with this, but I don't think adding a young character makes it any more or less of an adventure. I have no problem with younger characters tagging along for the ride and providing support where they can, and we've had a lot of that with Momo. When it comes to the crew, I don't think that works. Again, nothing against Tama as a character, but her young age certainly sends out a mixed message out there for what an 8yr old is or should be capable of.

At this stage of the series, we're literally fighting the Yonkou. I don't think the crew has room for anything less than Vice Admiral level characters. This is not just in terms of power level, but in terms of characters that would reasonably be made a Vice Admiral. Age, maturity, power, ability and personality all factoring.

Chopper has been that character for the majority of the series. He was the youngest member and a complete fish-out-of-water.

Yeah, he was, but he was also more of a doctor and a mascot for the crew. nonetheless, he isnt that inexperienced anymore, making room for another one who is, which Is why I think its fitting for Tama to be the last crewmember to join.

If Tama isnt joining, what role do you think would fit her in the overall story?

Its a hassle to type on the phone lol, maybe ill come back and write some more later.

[Triceron]

@Solid:

Yeah, I sort of agree with the age thing. But considering how 16-years olds looks in the One Piece world, Id guess thats just an age that Oda thinks fits for a kid. She would also represent an unrepresented generation the crew, and Tama being that short fits aethestically better in group shots than her being one head shorter than Luffy imo. It could also be a thing of her needing to be the same age as Momo or a timeline thing.

I can see this happening. That was my first impression when we met her as the first character of the arc. Her being similar age is a shoe in for a connection to Momo.

If Tama isnt joining, what role do you think would fit her in the overall story?

I'm honestly not quite sure yet. It's hard to get a grasp of her character when this arc has been so frantic. We've been introduced to so many characters that I don't have a clear picture of how it's all going to connect in the end, sorta like Dressrosa. At least I could follow Rebecca's story and figure that she's going to be reunite with her father at some point, but I'm honestly lost with where the story is going in Wano. All I know is Kaido is going down, but how all the rest of the characters resolve their situation is still up in the air.

I mean, it's kind of weird that the story focus has suddenly shifted to Hiyori and Toko, and now I feel like Tama is just… some random starving orphan girl who wants to be a Ninja. I don't know where she fits in the bigger picture quite yet. As of right now, Tama feels like she's gonna be a typical tag-along character, like Keimi or Conus. But I guess since she has an ability, probably more like Mansherry.

[Shiebs]

I'm surprised no one suggested Vega Punk, not that I think it will happen but I thought at least someone would have put there eggs in that basket

[FelRes]

I really wouldn't be surprised if Vegapunk ends up being a late game addition to the crew. He was namedropped waaaay back in Water 7 and always gets mentioned here and there, never being physically shown. From what we know of him, he'd prolly defect from the WG if given a good opportunity. He could be the scientist of the crew. That does come off as crossing over with Franky, who even spent time on his island, but it's hard to rule out since we haven't even seen the guy and what he could really contribute yet. I do wonder when exactly he'll come into the story proper, it's been nearly 15 years. I hope he's more than just an infodump.

[NamiRobinFrankyAce]

@Solid:

I'm free today so in honor of the poll I decided to reread Wano and take some notes of the panels Tama appears in.

Tama wearing Luffys straw hat, who has worn his hat before? All I can remember is Nami, but I think a non-sh member has worn it before.

! https://i.imgur.com/owI503z.jpg

Great analysis. By the way only Nami and Robin did wear the Strawhat before O-Tama. :D

@otakufan:

Been a very busy week, so I'm only just getting to the point where I can take the time to lay out my thoughts on the current candidates (as so designated by the survey)…
Vivi: Entirely contingent on the outcome of the Reverie, but of all the possibilities, this is the one I feel the most strongly about. With the Gorousei and Imu seemingly on the verge of attempting to "extinguish" Vivi (and presumably her father), the chances of her being on the run by the time Wano completes feels very strong to me. Should the World Government put her at the top of its "kill list" (possibly setting loose the CP-0 members present on her and Cobra), I think it almost inconceivable that she would respond by attempting to return to Alabasta and risk putting her homeland in danger just to protect herself. Given her past experience as an undercover operative and her self-sacrificing tendencies in service of protecting her people, opting to pull another "Ms. Wednesday" and striking out on her own (probably with the cover of the Grand Fleet members and Revolutionaries present) seems like a course of action that Vivi would take. And if she is on the run without Alabasta as an option, there are really only two "places" she can go: to the Revolutionaries or back to the Strawhats.

Ultimately, in an ideal world (and contingent on the appropriate character development and story beats), I think I'd go, in order of preference, with:
Both Vivi and Carrot.
Just Vivi.
Just Carrot.

But since I can only choose one for the survey… Sorry, Rabbit-girl. I gotta go with Vivi.

Vivi would be my choice too,i just love her character so much.

[SeaOfHope]

Franky has pretty much spent 2 years upgrading his technology as a cyborg and engineering other gadgets based on Vegapunk's work and using that knowledge for his own benefit moving forward. Even suggesting Vegapunk as a potential nakama would only make Franky's role as an engineer (as well as carpenter) redundant at best. He's been name dropped many times because he's definitely an important figure in the series, so the show constantly stresses how great his engineering contributions to the world are.

[FelRes]

Depends on the distinction between scientist and shipwright. Franky's specialized in ships and mechanical engineering, but someone like Vegapunk probably has more expansive knowledge including biochemistry and physics, stuff Franky doesn't cover. Though yeah, engineering does seem to be his forte.

[Robby]

I have to think that if Vegapunk was going to join the crew, then Franky's upgrade wouldn't have been "borrowing Vegapunk's tech". It seems like a huge overlap to me…. and he's also a really major figure in the world.

Now, Vegapunk's assistant....

[Jabra]

@Robby:

Now, Vegapunk's assistant….

Too bad we forgot Caesar in the poll.

[FelRes]

He has an assistant?

[Daz]

@Solid:

In retrospect, the first hint of Tamas existence was back during the marineford arc.

https://imgur.com/a/hwCp71i?fbclid=IwAR2hLOJEkSgCaGcExiyg5ZX64FymUr08pO0EjI990yN2SG6WInZ7LbIPH6g

! https://i.imgur.com/IFoUaIc.jpg

This reminds me of the subtle foreshadowing of Brook and his crew back in reverse mountain, when at the time fans didn't think too much of it, but it all made sense later on.

It is also entirely possible that Oda had Tama in mind ever since before Ace was formally introduced to the story since she connected with Luffy through Aces death.
"Oda was going to kill Ace within 1 year after his first appearance in 2000. Sound Recording (2012)"

I'm gonna stay out of the larger Tama debate, but I just want to point out these examples aren't actually foreshadowing, because nothing about construed an advance hint of anything at the time. Nothing about the Ace flashback hints at the existence of an important hat-weaving character, and Laboons first appearance ends with Luffy getting the whale to accept the loss of its obviously-dead-or-gone former friends - pretty much the opposite of hinting at Brooks existence.

Both cases are examples of Oda calling back to previously established plot elements, much like Sabaody Park calls back to Arlong Park, rather than the other way around.

[Solid]

@Daz:

I'm gonna stay out of the larger Tama debate, but I just want to point out these examples aren't actually foreshadowing, because nothing about construed an advance hint of anything at the time. Nothing about the Ace flashback hints at the existence of an important hat-weaving character, and Laboons first appearance ends with Luffy getting the whale to accept the loss of its obviously-dead-or-gone former friends - pretty much the opposite of hinting at Brooks existence.

Both cases are examples of Oda calling back to previously established plot elements, much like Sabaody Park calls back to Arlong Park, rather than the other way around.

Yes, indeed thats bad wording from my part, however as I said about the Tama part, in "retrospect" it hints towards their character and connection with the world before their introduction.
That is also the reason why I left out the comparison with Jinbei and Franky, especially Franky who was foreshadowed in a proper way.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@NamiRobinFrankyAce:

Great analysis. By the way only Nami and Robin did wear the Strawhat before O-Tama. :D

Thanks! It started more as some kind of analys, but quickly went into a more notion and observation kind post because it was less time consuming lol.

[Shiebs]

@FelRes:

He has an assistant?

Sentomaru maybe?

[KageKageKing]

Sentomaru was his bodyguard or something.

[K. Kira XXIII]

Caesar was his assistant.

[wolfwood]

@K.:

Caesar was his assistant.

His collegue might be a more appropriate title.

[K. Kira XXIII]

I thought Gastino was the colleague.

[wolfwood]

No Gastino was the ruthless west blue mobster

Try to keep up people

[Cockycent]

Carrot was a stowaway just like Robin. Great women think alike

[Shiebs]

Can't wait to be right :ninja:

[otakufan]

@Solid:

Oh, ok.

Apologies for the late response (busy week turned into an unexpectedly busy weekend) and also for breaking this up, but there are a few things I wanted to address separately…

When the mystery of the giant straw hat from marijoa comes into play that's at least one opportunity that she could show off her existing skills, and I think it is okay to assume that she could have more to her df power than we have seen, considering the versatility of most paramecia dfs. There's also the quote from Hitetsu, "you don't even rise to the level of a novice", which at least implies that she has undergone some kind of training (probably throwing kibidangos lol), and maybe she will be a novice by the end of the arc.

I'm not going to pretend that I have any more insight as to the nature and significance of "THE HAT" in Mary Geoise than anyone else, but I can't help but feel that thinking Tama's few years of amigasa-weaving could somehow be the key to unlocking its secrets is stretching plausibility a bit. About the only thing that I can come up with would be noticing a weird pattern in its weave that wouldn't come about naturally, but deciphering any meaning from that would be more up Robin's alley (historian/archaeologist et al.) than O-tama's…

And while I agree that her powers will likely prove more versatile that currently shown in the future, my understanding of that line from Hitetsu is precisely the opposite of what you are suggesting. The term "novice" suggests someone new to a particular skill/profession; someone who has just started developing their skills. In other words, it's the very bottom of the "proficiency hierarchy". By claiming O-tama does not even rise to the level of a novice, he is stating that even an utter newcomer would be more experienced than her as a shinobi, not that she is somehow on the cusp of qualifying.

About her dream, a shinobi in Wano is easy to define, O-Nami is apparently a kunoichi, and the only typical ninja skills we have seen Shinobu use is stealth and the flying kite (correct me if I'm wrong). I guess we will find out more what it means being a shinobi in Wano when Orochis ninja bodyguards start fighting, but even them seems to have a wide variation in their skills going by their design, maybe Tama wearing kunoichi clothes, being stealthy and agile is enough to be considered a kunoichi.

The way Tama was promising Ace to be an enchanting kunoichi I interpret it more of her being scrappy and independent like you wrote, it was like a way of Tama saying I'll be strong so I can join your crew.
Her being "enchanting", beautiful/hot basically is only achievable when she grows up, which would make her accomplish her dream in the epilogue of one piece, just like Nami and probably Brook and Jinbei.

I have every confidence that O-tama's dream of becoming an "enchanting kunoichi" ultimately originated from her desire to sail away with Ace and his subtle but encouraging method of telling her no. But just because it originated there does not mean it stayed there - even if it started as a way of saying "I'll be strong enough to convince you to take me out to sea with you", that doesn't mean she would be willing to give up on becoming a ninja just to sail the world if offered the chance now. Luffy's desire to be a pirate originated from his wish to sail off with Shanks, but it turned into something he was willing to chase after and fight for even after he realized that he was too young and joining Shanks was not an option. Tama may no longer be able to become a kunoichi for the purposes of joining Ace's crew, but suffering that kind of loss and persevering on the path she has chosen anyway is precisely in line with how One Piece characters operate.

As to the definition of what exactly a ninja is, "O-nami" may be described as a kunoichi-in-training (if I recall), but she is also a master thief with the ability to conjure illusions out of thin air, render herself invisible, and call down lighting from the heavens. Her status as a "ninja" is a cover story more than anything, but it's not as though she went into it without any skills to back her up. And while some "ninjutsu" techniques can probably be written off as misunderstood Devil Fruit powers (such as Shinobu's maturation/rotting abilities), we have at the very least seen Raizou use a "Kage Bunshin" type technique as part of a gag while having no indication that he's eaten a DF at all. While I don't expect Oda to develop a system of ninja-arts as complex as what Naruto uses, I'm also not convinced that the shinobi of Wano are just going to be a bunch assassins/rogues with a handful of DF-users scattered in the mix - the idea of "secret ninja techniques" is too intrinsically tied to the concept to skip over entirely, especially in a world where Zoro can manifest additional limbs, Sanji can set himself on fire, and Jinbe can hurl a current at someone, all without needing a Devil Fruit.

As you say, we'll get a better handle on things once we've seen more of the ninja characters in action, but I don't think we can necessarily equate "looking like/calling yourself a ninja" with "being a ninja"… Just because my friend back in elementary school pronounced me a Black Belt in karate doesn't mean I knew much of anything about karate.

And if we go by Naruto standards, there are a few characters that fights with the use of animals like Kiba, Shino and those big frogs and snakes duking it out.

With the exception of Shino (been a long time and don't remember enough about him), those are pretty much exactly the kinds of comparisons I'm going for when describing how I want O-tama to develop. The main issue, as I see it, is that she doesn't really contribute anything at the moment.

Whether Kiba/Akamaru or Jiraiya/Gamabunta or others, in all cases that I can recall, the human in the equation was quite formidable in their own right. Even if their fighting style (as with Kiba, in particular) was entirely centered around team-play with their animal companion, you could tell that they were not merely riding/following along and giving out orders - more often than not, the human was fighting as well. But at present, Tama's skill deficit means that she can't fight herself, which takes her out of ninja-with-animal-companion(s) land and puts her squarely in Pokemon trainer territory: utterly reliant on the creatures she tames to fight on her behalf. And that, to my mind, isn't really sufficient.

As I've said before, I really like O-tama's character and think she has a ton of potential. But it's all potential that seems a few in-universe years away from being realized.

[ImmaIvanoM]

I've just seen this poll for yhe first time and it's clear as day… It's either Carrot or no one

[Solid]

@otakufan:

Apologies for the late response (busy week turned into an unexpectedly busy weekend) and also for breaking this up, but there are a few things I wanted to address separately…

np, Im just happy u got back!

I'm not going to pretend that I have any more insight as to the nature and significance of "THE HAT" in Mary Geoise than anyone else, but I can't help but feel that thinking Tama's few years of amigasa-weaving could somehow be the key to unlocking its secrets is stretching plausibility a bit. About the only thing that I can come up with would be noticing a weird pattern in its weave that wouldn't come about naturally, but deciphering any meaning from that would be more up Robin's alley (historian/archaeologist et al.) than O-tama's…

If she doesn't join I'd agree it would be a stretch, but if she is joining it seems too big of a coincidence to have a straw hat weaver (a good one at that) and two legendary straw hats in the story, could be something that her Robin could do together, just like Usopp and Franky working together sometimes.
She could also have some interesting moments with the disbanded WB pirates, Aces former crew, Oars jr, Weevil and Blackbeard.

And while I agree that her powers will likely prove more versatile that currently shown in the future, my understanding of that line from Hitetsu is precisely the opposite of what you are suggesting. The term "novice" suggests someone new to a particular skill/profession; someone who has just started developing their skills. In other words, it's the very bottom of the "proficiency hierarchy". By claiming O-tama does not even rise to the level of a novice, he is stating that even an utter newcomer would be more experienced than her as a shinobi, not that she is somehow on the cusp of qualifying.

yeah, exactly. My point is, because of that quote we can assume that she has at least started her journey on becoming on a kunoichi no matter what her level is, thats all.

I have every confidence that O-tama's dream of becoming an "enchanting kunoichi" ultimately originated from her desire to sail away with Ace and his subtle but encouraging method of telling her no. But just because it originated there does not mean it stayed there - even if it started as a way of saying "I'll be strong enough to convince you to take me out to sea with you", that doesn't mean she would be willing to give up on becoming a ninja just to sail the world if offered the chance now. Luffy's desire to be a pirate originated from his wish to sail off with Shanks, but it turned into something he was willing to chase after and fight for even after he realized that he was too young and joining Shanks was not an option. Tama may no longer be able to become a kunoichi for the purposes of joining Ace's crew, but suffering that kind of loss and persevering on the path she has chosen anyway is precisely in line with how One Piece characters operate.

Yeah, it was her promise her to Ace, and since Ace is dead its likely that her becoming an enchanting kunoichi is her dream.
Why would sailing the world mean that she'd would give up on her dream? The journey itself is what could teach her to become a kunoichi, similar to Usopp and him wanting to become a brave warrior of the sea.
We haven't seen anything that implies that you need to have a master or enroll in a school or something to become to a kunoichi, especially since her primary ability is her devil fruit which is best mastered by getting into demanding situations that require you to improve your skills with it, especially if her DF has more uses than what we and even herself currently know.
We just saw her being able to tame a smile because of being put in a dangerous situation, that's not something she would have learned about without getting into a situation that provided the opportunity, and thanks to that new skill/knowledge, it may be the reason Tama survided her encounter with Kaido with only a shallow wound.

!

As to the definition of what exactly a ninja is, "O-nami" may be described as a kunoichi-in-training (if I recall), but she is also a master thief with the ability to conjure illusions out of thin air, render herself invisible, and call down lighting from the heavens. Her status as a "ninja" is a cover story more than anything, but it's not as though she went into it without any skills to back her up. And while some "ninjutsu" techniques can probably be written off as misunderstood Devil Fruit powers (such as Shinobu's maturation/rotting abilities), we have at the very least seen Raizou use a "Kage Bunshin" type technique as part of a gag while having no indication that he's eaten a DF at all. While I don't expect Oda to develop a system of ninja-arts as complex as what Naruto uses, I'm also not convinced that the shinobi of Wano are just going to be a bunch assassins/rogues with a handful of DF-users scattered in the mix - the idea of "secret ninja techniques" is too intrinsically tied to the concept to skip over entirely, especially in a world where Zoro can manifest additional limbs, Sanji can set himself on fire, and Jinbe can hurl a current at someone, all without needing a Devil Fruit.

Yeah, she is a novice kunoichi according to jaiminisbox.
I'd definitely guess itsthe shadow clones is Raizous DF power since both Kinemon and Kanjuro have a DF power.

What you aren't convinced of is exactly what I think is the case for the Wano ninjas haha, I couldn't have formulated it better myself, thanks.

Especially considered the variety of the Orochi Oniwabanshu, with ninjas using catfish and the kunoichi seemingly standing in a fighting stance with a shamisen.

!

And then we have Robin who has been refered to being a ninja and using ninjutsu twice.

!

As you say, we'll get a better handle on things once we've seen more of the ninja characters in action, but I don't think we can necessarily equate "looking like/calling yourself a ninja" with "being a ninja"… Just because my friend back in elementary school pronounced me a Black Belt in karate doesn't mean I knew much of anything about karate.

Karate is a bad example, since its actually a school of martial arts.
a better example would be, you can be a professional MMA fighter without having a typical martial arts background, simply by being a brawler or even an american football player sometimes.

With the exception of Shino (been a long time and don't remember enough about him), those are pretty much exactly the kinds of comparisons I'm going for when describing how I want O-tama to develop. The main issue, as I see it, is that she doesn't really contribute anything at the moment.

Whether Kiba/Akamaru or Jiraiya/Gamabunta or others, in all cases that I can recall, the human in the equation was quite formidable in their own right. Even if their fighting style (as with Kiba, in particular) was entirely centered around team-play with their animal companion, you could tell that they were not merely riding/following along and giving out orders - more often than not, the human was fighting as well. But at present, Tama's skill deficit means that she can't fight herself, which takes her out of ninja-with-animal-companion(s) land and puts her squarely in Pokemon trainer territory: utterly reliant on the creatures she tames to fight on her behalf. And that, to my mind, isn't really sufficient.

As I've said before, I really like O-tama's character and think she has a ton of potential. But it's all potential that seems a few in-universe years away from being realized.

If she would display more growth and development in the fighting and skill department, would that change your opinion?
Some dude counted each characters panels so far in the arc, and Tama ended up on the third place after Luffy and Zoro, that along with how supposedly valuable her df power certainly sets her up for having a few big moments in the arc.

[SeaOfHope]

@Solid:

If she would display more growth and development in the fighting and skill department, would that change your opinion?
Some dude counted each characters panels so far in the arc, and Tama ended up on the third place after Luffy and Zoro, that along with how supposedly valuable her df power certainly sets her up for having a few big moments in the arc.

She's been captured by nameless fodder twice and has shown no combat ability to speak of. Seriously, Kid Ace, Sabo, and Luffy could do more at her age and yet they still wouldn't be considered good enough. The Straw Hats aren't going to be her babysitters, they don't have time for that.

I'm sorry, but to me, her panel time is only signifies to me how important the individual is to that arc, as it could be the same for any other character. Hell, we said the same with Carrot back during WCI, but at least she showed us that she was combat capable within her introduction. I'm not getting that with Tama.

[Solid]

I definitely think Oda stuck with the 10 crewmembers idea, as it has been hinted since the beginning.
The straw hats themselves are one of the core ideas and theme of the series, and except for Vivi* it would make sense it is something he had in his mind since the start, and with the revelation of Blackbeards 10 titan captains it, and assuming them and the strawhats will have a 1v1 showdown he seems to have stuck with it.

And the number of 11 itself, could just be from the time when Oda played football back in school, 11 players in a team.
"Wanted! (Romance Dawn Ver. 2) + Blue Grand Data File + Sail & Anchor: Played soccer in elementary and middle school. He quit the first year of high school to focus on manga."

Further implying it was a number decided upon since a long time ago.

*"When Vivi appeared for the first time, Oda didn't have the intention of her being princess.
She would have been just defeated by Straw Hats and made her exit."

!

China Times: Post-Brook, Oda claims that new Straw Hat crewmates will appear successively.

With Jinbei joining, there's only spot left in the crew, and I think it would make sense for that crewmember to join rather sooner than later since we are closing in on the end of One Piece.

The one problem I see with having crewmembers joining this late in the series is the lack of emotional attachment to the said new crewmember for the readers, and the crewmember feeling too "new" and missing out of the several dilemmas and dramas the crew has already faced.
Jinbei while a new member, appeared at first in chapter 528, almost half the series ago and was even mentioned by Yosaku way back in east blue, which made me feel like he has been around for a long time.

This is why I think it is so perfect for Tama to have a connection with Luffy through their bonds with Ace, and the little flashback sequence of Ace and Oars Jr with an amigasa, her relationship with Ace makes her feel less new and more connected to the world outside of the Wano arc, and at the same time also being included in the whole overall story and with the turning point of Luffys character when Ace died, while any of the other candidates would miss out of this and never really feeling like they belonged there in the straw hat family imo (lol sounds so cheesy).

Tama feels relatable to all these panels of the crew showing their concern for Luffy, a lot of panels incoming.

!
!

As for her character, I think it is definitely unique, she's not just some normal kid like most people want to categorize her as, just like the other straw hats.

SBS Vol. 51: Believes the Straw Hats to be most represented by the word “unprecedented”
SBS Vol. 51: Tries to write the Straw Hats as “unconventional

She is a kunoichi, beast tamer, tomboy, kid, future pirate (king) disciple*, straw hat weaver at the age 8, and also fulfilling the shoujo-type of character we have very few of in one piece, all these traits and features definitely make her unprecedented and unconventional in my book.

Buggy and Shanks were "pirate apprentices" (海賊見習い, Kaizoku minarai).

As for her being too weak in a fight and all that, her ability is useful and potentially strong in it's in own right, and I think this quote fits in for all that power level talk.
"10th Treasures + The Two Giants of Manga + One Piece Magazine Vol. 1: One Piece is written as a story “beyond” just being a battle manga, and is categorized differently from the likes of other shounen like Dragon Ball. The drama and adventure elements are more crucial than the fights. Now that the series has so many characters and events, he can only afford to spend “one chapter at most” on fight scenes, excluding the ones that are purposefully written to be lengthy. "

"If she joins she will be weaker than Usopp, and Oda said nobody will be weaker than Usopp" argument
Heres a follow up to that statement from Oda:

"10th Treasures: Usopp is written to be the closest to a real-life human being in the series, and to make the audience feel stronger whenever he gets stronger."

I don't think taming and riding on a lion-dog bigger than the size of an elephant makes Tama comes to close to a real-life human being at all, so she is already excluded from that comparison.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@SeaOfHope:

She's been captured by nameless fodder twice and has shown no combat ability to speak of. Seriously, Kid Ace, Sabo, and Luffy could do more at her age and yet they still wouldn't be considered good enough. The Straw Hats aren't going to be her babysitters, they don't have time for that.

I'm sorry, but to me, her panel time is only signifies to me how important the individual is to that arc, as it could be the same for any other character. Hell, we said the same with Carrot back during WCI, but at least she showed us that she was combat capable within her introduction. I'm not getting that with Tama.

Her being a kid is the point of her as a crewmate though, when she has grown up she has already fulfilled her dream of being an "enchanting" kunoichi, and she would need to be a kid in order to take on the position/role of pirate disciple. Seems like you mistuderstood the whole point of what you quoted, you want me clarify it?

[SeaOfHope]

@Solid:

Her being a kid is the point of her as a crewmate though, when she has grown up she has already fulfilled her dream of being an "enchanting" kunoichi, and she would need to be a kid in order to take on the position/role of pirate disciple. Seems like you mistuderstood the whole point of what you quoted, you want me clarify it?

And the thing I'm trying to highlight is that the main reason she didn't go with Ace was because she hasn't become an enchanting kunoichi. This is shown with her visible lack of combat ability, which, as I have said before, is a liability to the crew. They're going to face the Blackbeard Pirates, an unskilled fighter that can't protect herself is a huge negative.

That right there, regardless of foreshadowing, brings her chances down in my eyes.

[Robby]

Barring something done to age her up rapidly, Tama isn't joining. She's too much of a defenseless dead weight EIGHT YEAR OLD.

She's got plenty of fine qualities to be an arc character, and even a good hair color and a color spread of just her and the strawhats, but that is way, way too much of a hindrance.

That can be remedied before the end of the arc, but as it stands? No.

China Times: Post-Brook, Oda claims that new Straw Hat crewmates will appear successively.

Given the timing of when that quote originally happened, which is now years and years old, it's generally assumed Oda was referring to the strawhat fleet. If he was hyping up anything else, he was revealing something that was years away even then and thats not really his style.

Even as bad as Oda is at guessing his own timetable (He said a strawhat, Merry in particular as it turned out, would die in the next year… about three years in advance... he thought W7 would be shorter obviously)

Similarly, the "a former boss character will join" was certainly about the Impel Down crew.

[.access timeco.]

Even if she magically became older, she wouldn't magically become a kunoichi, though. And she has shown absoultely zero effort in improving in that area, something that is very glaring as for many chapters now every panel she is in also includes Momonuske tirelessly training to become a samurai.

@Solid:

Her being a kid is the point of her as a crewmate though, when she has grown up she has already fulfilled her dream of being an "enchanting" kunoichi

But the casual relation is the other way around here: she wants to become a kunoichi so she can go to the sea. Becoming a kunoichi is the means to the end of joining Ace's crew - because he conditioned one thing to the other.

[FelRes]

Im and the WG seem to have damage with Vivi and her father, so is taking care of Alabasta as they have been really a top priority at this point? They seem to be ready to nuke that kingdom at any moment. Though if Pluton really is there, it'd be a cool twist if they match a buster call with a muthafuggin ancient weapon. Gives Cobra something cool to do on the homestead while Vivi goes on the run to preserve her family line out of harm's way by rejoining the Straw Hats. I doubt Oda would do anything like that but I'd definitely eat it up.

[otakufan]

@Solid:

np, Im just happy u got back!

These past few months have been rough. Finishing up a training program for work, and they've been keeping us heavily loaded with things to do.

Oh well, there are worse problems to have. :p

If she doesn't join I'd agree it would be a stretch, but if she is joining it seems too big of a coincidence to have a straw hat weaver (a good one at that) and two legendary straw hats in the story, could be something that her Robin could do together, just like Usopp and Franky working together sometimes.

Just saying that there's a difference between "There's something weird with this ship, so let's talk to our master shipwright" or "There's something weird with this sword, so let's talk to our master swordsman/a master swordsmith" and "There's something weird with this hat, so let's talk to the eight-year-old girl who's been weaving hats for a few years to try to support herself while living on the verge of starvation in a nearly abandoned village".

Just because making amigasa is a skill she's noted as having a proficiency in, that doesn't mean she's a master of the craft and says nothing about her familiarity with weaving patterns/styles that originated in other lands. More to the point, we don't even know if THE HAT's physical makeup is what's important about it… Personally, until we know more, I'm leaning toward it being of more historical significance than material - that who it belonged to and what they did is more important that the hat itself, like the suit of a former president.

yeah, exactly. My point is, because of that quote we can assume that she has at least started her journey on becoming on a kunoichi no matter what her level is, thats all.

Again, I get the opposite impression from reading that. Everything we've seen from O-tama thus far leads me to believe she is no further along the path to becoming a kunoichi than your typical elementary schooler wearing a plastic badge and wielding a toy gun is to becoming a police officer. Tama's a kid pretending to be what she hopes to become - she's the seven-year-old Luffy claiming he's a pirate so that Shanks will let him sail on his ship.

Yeah, it was her promise her to Ace, and since Ace is dead its likely that her becoming an enchanting kunoichi is her dream.
Why would sailing the world mean that she'd would give up on her dream? The journey itself is what could teach her to become a kunoichi, similar to Usopp and him wanting to become a brave warrior of the sea.

We haven't seen anything that implies that you need to have a master or enroll in a school or something to become to a kunoichi, especially since her primary ability is her devil fruit which is best mastered by getting into demanding situations that require you to improve your skills with it, especially if her DF has more uses than what we and even herself currently know.
…

Not going to quote the whole thing because I write long walls of text too much as is, but consider this: Would Zoro's dream of becoming a master swordsman have worked if he went to sea as a young man without having picked up a sword before? Would Nami's dream of mapping the world have worked if she didn't know the first thing about cartography when she joined the crew?

While Usopp's dream of becoming a "brave warrior of the sea" is something that can be "learned along the way", dreams associated with a specific profession generally require training or education in some degree, and that is in line with how ninja are traditionally portrayed. Ninja is not generally treated a "self-taught" profession, at least in any of the fiction I've read over the past several years (which, admittedly, is far from comprehensive)… They are commonly associated with different clans and traditions, with different schools of martial arts and secret techniques passed from master to student over generations, etc. While the question of whether their more blatantly supernatural "ninjutsu" are all necessarily the result of DF-powers is open, there is still plenty of room for developing more "mundane" skills (stealth, combat, disguise, etc...) through direct instruction, and that is particularly poignant because the problem with Tama isn't something that can be fixed in just a few chapters.

This isn't a matter of developing a new technique mid-combat (as so often with Zoro) or even overhauling one's entire fighting style on the fly (as with Nami in Alabasta)... Zoro was a highly skilled swordsman from before we met him and even though Nami's new climatact was something far outside her comfort zone, she still had the staff fighting experience and, more importantly, the near instinctual understanding of weather phenomena necessary to both work out what the climatact was capable of and to put it into practical effect. They both have foundations to fall back on. O-tama, presently, does not.

That is precisely why I believe she needs training, so that she can develop that foundation of ninja skills that she can then combine with her existing Devil Fruit powers to become a fully-fledged and actionable character. If O-tama wants to become a ninja, chances are good that she will need instruction in the skills necessary to serve as one... That puts her dream of becoming a kunoichi in direct conflict with any chances of sailing with the Strawhats in the near future, at least as I see it.

If she would display more growth and development in the fighting and skill department, would that change your opinion?

Absolutely. It would need to be substantial, as it would need to outweigh the negative effect of her age, but I've said before that a version of O-tama with even low-level ninja-skills would vastly improve her chances in my eyes.

[NamiRobinFrankyAce]

I dont think her age matters so much. Its a battle shonen we're talking about,kids fight all the time. Gohan from Dragon Ball went to Namek when he was 6 years old by the way we all know Oda loves to draw animals and make them interact with humans. O-Tama would be the perfect character for him to have fun with this element. Imagine if she learns to tame even the most dangerous and big animals in the world (maybe awakening her Devil Fruit) she would become immediately very strong.

[otakufan]

@Turquoise:

It would be nice to have Vivi back, but I'm not sure though. She still has a kingdom to help her father run and she is quite a distance away from the Strawhats as it is. But, hey if Oda can work it out, I've got no complaints!

A kingdom is its people. Whatever happens to Cobra and/or Vivi, their priority is making sure the people of Alabasta are safe. If a WG kill order comes down on the Nefertari family, the question of whether their returning to Alabasta would bring an violent invasion of WG forces (possibly on the level of a Buster Call) becomes very real.

Keeping their distance and leaving the nation in the hands of trusted subordinates (a Lord Regent Igaram, perhaps) or just trusting the people themselves to hold things together for a while may end up being the best option.

@NamiRobinFrankyAce:

I dont think her age matters so much. Its a battle shonen we're talking about,kids fight all the time. Gohan from Dragon Ball went to Namek when he was 6 years old by the way we all know Oda loves to draw animals and make them interact with humans. O-Tama would be the perfect character for him to have fun with this element. Imagine if she learns to tame even the most dangerous and big animals in the world (maybe awakening her Devil Fruit) she would become immediately very strong.

Gohan was also kidnapped and trained for a year by Piccolo before the big battle with Nappa/Vegeta, felt responsible for the death of Piccolo which was his main motivation for going to Namek at all, and had half-Saiyan biology massively bolstering his growth the entire time.

You're not wrong, per se, but just because this is a shonen battle manga, that does not mean that providing a justification for why Tama's age shouldn't be an issue isn't needed.

[KageKageKing]

@NamiRobinFrankyAce:

by the way we all know Oda loves to draw animals and make them interact with humans. O-Tama would be the perfect character for him to have fun with this element.

The fact that the Straw Hats interacts with those animals without magic dangos it's what makes it fun.

[Shift]

Tama didn't even tame the sharkodile they're riding: BM made it submit, just like Luffy does all the time.

[NamiRobinFrankyAce]

@Shift:

Tama didn't even tame the sharkodile they're riding: BM made it submit, just like Luffy does all the time.

She can learn of course

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

The tama argumsnt as a rebuttal to carrot has never made sense to me

[Cockycent]

Based on the arguments made, that poll is really "who do you want to join". In that case, no one imo

[Shiebs]

Wait Caribou has five people voting for him? Caribou?!

[Jabra]

Funny that Kinemon and Momo don't even have a single vote yet.

I mean we know that they are super unpopular, they didn't even make it to the top 100 in the offical character rankings, but I would have thought that at least one ot two readers would root for either of them.

[.access timeco.]

Both seem too bound to Wano to have any relevance after this arc is over. I always liked to entertain the possibility of Momo becoming the "apprentice", but he is bound to be the next shogun so there doesn't seem to any room for that… that said, I am curious where Oda is going with this sudden reveal of the daimyo who is an extremely altruistic saint loved by all the population.

[SeaOfHope]

So basically, it's Carrot or bust.

[KageKageKing]

@NamiRobinFrankyAce:

She can learn of course

Learn? All she has to do is feed a damn dumpling.

[HeartOfDarkness]

Tama is definitely not joining but it's rather funny that Tama had more moments with Luffy in 20 chapters then Carrot did in 100 chapters.

It's quite telling.

[Roronoa Zacho]

Picked Bonney to get her ahead of Pekoms. Though he would be worth to join if he had an eye-patch. It's astonishing we haven't seen any char with an eye-patch for over 20 yrs in a pirate Story (except for that one fish on an early cover).

[FelRes]

@Shiebs:

Wait Caribou has five people voting for him? Caribou?!

Well he is the only one who reserved a spot on the boat. That's better than everyone else on the list.