bet the Sanji's group is all fine
Shuten staying behind, along with Law either indicates that Luffy will be quick-saved or that all three are going to give Kidd some company
bet the Sanji's group is all fine
Shuten staying behind, along with Law either indicates that Luffy will be quick-saved or that all three are going to give Kidd some company
Kaidou taking luffy down was a bit expected, but… he speed-blitzed him in G4… like... damn...
Yeah the way Kaido took Luffy down was impressive. No haki or awakened Zoan hybrid form.
Kaido going there was unexpected, but so was coincidentally meeting Otama and Speed on his way there and attacking them. If Luffy blames himself for not staying with Otama to protect her, even if he didn't know she would get attacked, then he should blame himself for bringing that enemy in the first place, even if he didn't know that would happen because of him. Luffy could've rescued Otama and be done with it, he didn't have to send Holdem flying because he used pincers on Otama's cheek since it goes against the plans.
Luffy saved the girl from random bad guy and has been trying to save her since then. I don't think there enough reason that Luffy would consider that it's his fault since she was a target from the start and they are a continuation of wanting to catch her. As for his crew, the killer is right in front of him. I suppose he prefer to deal with that before going for philosophical question of how far back can he trace the blame.
[[QUOTE=King Cannon;3943837]This is a stupid argument based on whatifism. If Kaido destroyed Luffy's crew, it was due to pure dumb luck.
The SHs are obviously fine tho, but Luffy doesn't realize that, causing him to act this way. He also doesn't know it was pure luck that got Kaido's attack directed towards his friends, all he knows is that Kaido arrived because of he blew his own cover.
It's not unproven. It literally happened last arc with Katakuri. He also stated it works best when the user is calm.
I know that. The same happening to Luffy is unproven headcanon, at least until Luffy confirms it was the case for him. But it makes sense tho, given that some cues pointing there, it's fine.
Luffy saved the girl from random bad guy and has been trying to save her since then. I don't think there enough reason that Luffy would consider that it's his fault since she was a target from the start and they are a continuation of wanting to catch her. As for his crew, the killer is right in front of him. I suppose he prefer to deal with that before going for philosophical question of how far back can he trace the blame.
Yeah, it wasn't really a choice since the start of the arc. But sending Holdem flying because he saw Otama's red cheeks was unwarranted, specially since the little girl had been saved at that point.
Yeah, it wasn't really a choice since the start of the arc. But sending Holdem flying because he saw Otama's red cheeks was unwarranted, specially since the little girl had been saved at that point.
But that has nothing to do with him failing to protect the girl. There's no reason for him to suddenly feel he put her in danger when she has been a target the entire time they've known each other. She is not an innocent bystander hurt by Luffy's shenenigans. She's a target Luffy has been protecting all this time and that finally got hit.
Kaido going there was unexpected, but so was coincidentally meeting Otama and Speed on his way there and attacking them. If Luffy blames himself for not staying with Otama to protect her, even if he didn't know she would get attacked, then he should blame himself for bringing that enemy in the first place, even if he didn't know that would happen because of him.
Ya lost me with the bolded.
Hawkins explicitly told everybody to not report anything to Kaido.
That was in Ch. 911, before Hawkins knew it was Luffy.
Doesn't matter, same result. What if he had someone secretly following them? In the end, it was because Luffy was reckless despite the repeated warnings.
No, in the end, Kaido's attack only happened because of Hawkins making an educated guess.
Luffy could've rescued Otama and be done with it, he didn't have to send Holdem flying because he used pincers on Otama's cheek since it goes against the plans.
As I've already said, Hawkins already knew of Luffy's presence beforehand. Between him, Holdem, his grunts, it's highly likely that Jack would've shown up regardless, as would Kaido due to being alerted while drunk.
I never really bought into Kiku telling Luffy to not attack him being a sensible option, the damage had long been done at that point. Urashima is defeated, Holdem's house is destroyed, and Tama is no longer his hostage. For all of that to happen and still decide to not alert Jack/Kaido makes no sense.
I love everything about this chapter! Very excellent all around!
I highly question if they were stick to their guns about the little girl being dead (Otama, wasnt it her name?) But I'm glad that kaido finally got to show Luffy that he was not going to be taken down by Luffy like some sort of bitch. This is one of the four pirate Emperors and it needed to show that. And it definitely did
But that has nothing to do with him failing to protect the girl. There's no reason for him to suddenly feel he put her in danger when she has been a target the entire time they've known each other. She is not an innocent bystander hurt by Luffy's shenenigans. She's a target Luffy has been protecting all this time and that finally got hit.
She was a target because of her abilities that Holdem's subordinates told him about. For all we know, Kaido didn't even know about her. So yes, if it wasn't for Luffy going the extra mile and punching Holdem, it would have not happened.
That was in Ch. 911, before Hawkins knew it was Luffy.
There's no indication whatsoever that Hawkins changed his mind once he realized it was Luffy.
No, in the end, Kaido's attack only happened because of Hawkins making an educated guess.
Yes, but Luffy doesn't know that. All he knows is that Kaido came all the way to Kuri because he blew up his own cover.
As I've already said, Hawkins already knew of Luffy's presence beforehand. Between him, Holdem, his grunts, it's highly likely that Jack would've shown up regardless, as would Kaido due to being alerted while drunk.
It was never implied that Hawkins was going to report to Kaido. And Holdem on the other hand didn't figure out it was Luffy and was thinking Shutenmaru and his followers were behind this.
I never really bought into Kiku telling Luffy to not attack him being a sensible option, the damage had long been done at that point. Urashima is defeated, Holdem's house is destroyed, and Tama is no longer his hostage. For all of that to happen and still decide to not alert Jack/Kaido makes no sense.
We were told that Jack arrives if Holdem gets taken down, which Luffy immediately did afterwards. Urashima isn't exactly a Headliner for Jack to care about, and Otama getting rescued isn't that important to the higher ups of the beast pirates either, it was Holdem's experiment to test out her powers that none of the other Headliners/Calamities knew about.
Considering some still think ace> luffy, then is kaidou vs luffy just like ace vs akainu?
One-Punch Kaidou…that was funny, but I don´t like it.
What was the point of his Observation advancement against Katakuri if he gets one-shot like this? :sad:
Seems like I was right after last chapter, he should´ve gone for King Kong Gun with his first strike. It probably wouldn´t have mattered much beside flattening the town alongside Kaidou´s head, but oh well.
Big Mom would´ve owned Luffy the same way. The power difference is ridiculous.
The issue here is if Kaidou one-shots G4 Luffy-level people, it doesn´t matter if Luffy, Zoro, Law, Sulong Cat and Dog, Shutenmaru, Hawkins, Killer and Kid team up.
It´ll be over in 5 seconds. I hope Luffy stands up next chapter.
Chapter was great of course.
What was the point of his Observation advancement against Katakuri if he gets one-shot like this? :sad:
That same fight reiterated that Observation Haki only works if you're calm to begin with. Luffy was far from that.
I know this might seem irrelevant but can we all put respect on Kid's name for trying? Our 1.5billion berri man is a bloody mess too. "Kid is just violent hence his bounty, he's actually weak" get the fuck outta here.
I will be happy if Luffy gets to be as strong as Katakuri or nr1 Calamity after this arc ends.
Then Holy Land arc and 1 on 1 with an Admiral(Kizaru) won. Then Luffy is ready to try and fight Big Mom on Elbaf.
If Luffy defeat Kaido by his own power that's it. Only a EOS BB and Im could pose a threat to him.
Luffy saved the girl from random bad guy and has been trying to save her since then. I don't think there enough reason that Luffy would consider that it's his fault since she was a target from the start and they are a continuation of wanting to catch her. As for his crew, the killer is right in front of him. I suppose he prefer to deal with that before going for philosophical question of how far back can he trace the blame.
He saved Tama from Holden and that was that… The part of punching Holdem has zeroto do with Saving Tama. That was Luffy getting revenge and that’s what led to al this
I don’t expect an assault power up but how do you think Luffy will close the gap between him and Kaido. I know he won’t 1v1 him but a team will have to at least be up to Katakuri level.
He saved Tama from Holden and that was that… The part of punching Holdem has zeroto do with Saving Tama. That was Luffy getting revenge and that’s what led to al this
What??
since when Kaido care about somebody punching Holdem?
Thinking back on what Zoro said to Luffy when he almost lost to Caesar, I wonder what Zoro would say if he saw Luffy right now. I vaguely remember him saying he would leave if Luffy lost again.
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Does anyone else think, this might has to do something with the cursed blade he is wearing? Perhaps the blade has some influence over him.
I think it does because he has been very cocky since getting it, he was cocky when he fought Katakuri but not the same. Fan boys will be pissed when Zoro gets it because he might have the same characteristics. Perhaps also that is why the guy was in seclusion with only Tama.
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I assume Oda intentionally made the transition so fast so that it emphasizes on the speed of his attack that even G4 Luffy couldn't react to it. It was a straightforward attack with a huge club that hit his head spot on. Normally he could've avoided it but it just speaks words on the speed of that one attack.
I love the fact it was a blunt object that appears to have hit him with no Haki. That further highlights the strength gap because everyone knows blunt attacks are useless against Luffy.
@Miss:
If you personally feel this way that's one thing, but it's simply not the case at all. Blackbeard is THE main antagonist of this series, and not just cause he's the oldest still standing. He's the antithesis to Luffy while also being very similar. He's a 'D'. He was the one who captured Ace and got him executed. He was the one that crashed the Marineford war, killed WB, then stole his fruit, then became a Yonko. He's been nothing but steadily hyped for years and years.
On the other hand Kaido only became relevant about half-way through Punk Hazard, and even then we didn't really learn much about him till Dressrosa and then this arc. He may be more imposing (or even stronger) but he's nowhere near as important in the grand scheme of the series.
I agree on everything you've just said. I don't think it's that different from what I said.
BB is (as far as we know) the main antagonist of one piece. He is nega-Luffy and just like Luffy has the potential to be eventually stronger than anybody else, even the emperors.
However right now he is not, and unlike Kaido he has shown he can be damaged.
The problem I see with BB ever feeling as menacing as Kaido is that while BB will be stronger than Kaido, by that time Luffy will be as well. I doubt somebody who's stronger than Kaido can be utterly trounced the same way he was trounced in this chapter. Anyway, let's just see how Oda handles it.
Thinking back on what Zoro said to Luffy when he almost lost to Caesar, I wonder what Zoro would say if he saw Luffy right now. I vaguely remember him saying he would leave if Luffy lost again.
Zoro lost to the yeti cool Brothers, he is in no position to tell luffy anything.
@uniaka:
Zoro lost to the yeti cool Brothers, he is in no position to tell luffy anything.
Luffy lost to random FI citizen.
@uniaka:
Zoro lost to the yeti cool Brothers, he is in no position to tell luffy anything.
Was that before or after the time skip? Also that was such a gag he was tricked. Zoro said this is the new world stop playing around yet Luffy goes In headfirst guns blazing.
Was that before or after the time skip? Also that was such a gag he was tricked. Zoro said this is the new world stop playing around yet Luffy goes In headfirst guns blazing.
I know I was just trolling like he was. But he did lose to CC during PH.
Why? He never said he wanted to be the strongest pirate and the only indication we have of what pirate king even means is that they're the most accomplished and respected pirate. For all we know Roger was never as strong as Whitebeard
It was mentioned that Whitebeard and Garp fought equally with Roger.
What??
since when Kaido care about somebody punching Holdem?
This very chapter has shown that Kaidou even cared about Speed leaving Bakura town with Tama… The guy literally knows that and punished speed for it and you think he doesn’t care about Speed’s boss getting defeated?
You sort of get the feel that Kaido just takes everything on the chin just to see if they can do anything against him
You sort of get the feel that Kaido just takes everything on the chin just to see if they can do anything against him
It's directly implied, I think. When he sighs before getting up. As if he was hoping for an actual challenge. There's no way someone that fast couldn't have blocked any of the punches. He was just standing there, soaking in the pain. Well, a discomfort at the very least. His expression during barrage shows he felt those punches.
It's directly implied, I think. When he sighs before getting up. As if he was hoping for an actual challenge. There's no way someone that fast couldn't have blocked any of the punches. He was just standing there, soaking in the pain. Well, a discomfort at the very least. His expression during barrage shows he felt those punches.
Though, they may have been felt, definitely didn't damage him or actually hurt him.
I see none trusts in Luffy at all, like maybe he will rise next chapter and fight some more. Guess he needs 900 more chapters to gain your trust:ninja:
Like he took hits for 11 hours from katakuri, so this 1 punch of kaidou is equivalent of 11 hours katakuri punches? Difference can't be that big between vice yonkou and yonkou.
Though, they may have been felt, definitely didn't damage him or actually hurt him.
Well yeah. He's a real mistery. Unlike Big Mom who has some kind of impenetrable steel defense, his body is normal. You can see punches getting deep in his gut and deforming his face. And then nothing, no effect whatsoever.
When you have a dude who is anything between a human, an ogre and a mythical beast, the cause of that could be anything. Depending on what he is, he might have more than just one basic ability.
Well yeah. He's a real mistery. Unlike Big Mom who has some kind of impenetrable steel defense, his body is normal. You can see punches getting deep in his gut and deforming his face. And then nothing, no effect whatsoever.
When you have a dude who is anything between a human, an ogre and a mythical beast, the cause of that could be anything. Depending on what he is, he might have more than just one basic ability.
I've been leaning that he's some science experience for awhile now. Just my thought though.
@uniaka:
I see none trusts in Luffy at all, like maybe he will rise next chapter and fight some more. Guess he needs 900 more chapters to gain your trust:ninja:
Even with Gear 4 drawbacks? Unlikely. If Law doesn't manage to pull a play of the season, Luffy's gonna be keeping Kid company soon.
The arc would be a lot more interesting if Luffy got thrown in jail and got to talk with Kid. Think of it as this arc's Nola the snake, only a lot more interesting.
Law IS the perfect person for get-aways. I'd be happy with a continuation of the fight, a Law escape, or imprisonment. I only want a continuation of the fight, though, if Oda can really make it work. I'm toootally into Luffy getting one-hit KO'd.
It was mentioned that Whitebeard and Garp fought equally with Roger.
Can you provide proof of this please? I personally have only seen WhiteBeard as stated to have stalemated Roger. I remember Garp cornering Roger but never any mention of them being equals.
=D
This very chapter has shown that Kaidou even cared about Speed leaving Bakura town with Tama… The guy literally knows that and punished speed for it and you think he doesn’t care about Speed’s boss getting defeated?
Wow.. So far in this or previous chapter nothing ever said about why Kaido attack Speed except for he received some report regarding Speed weird behavior during Luffy's side vs Holdem's group. Nothing to do with Luffy wanting revenge or what ever you were claimed to be. Whether Luffy involve or not in saving Tama at the town, Beast Pirate already targeting her before Luffy arrived at Kuri.
And don't forget, Punk Hazard and Dressrossa predated any event in Wano. Luffy already incurred Kaido's wrath since strawhat enter the New World.
Can you provide proof of this please? I personally have only seen WhiteBeard as stated to have stalemated Roger. I remember Garp cornering Roger but never any mention of them being equals.
=D
Roger said they nearly killed each other multiple times
He kind of reminds me of Moriah's zombies y'know in that way they take hits, seem like they are atleast somewhat affected by it only to remember that oh yeah i can't feel pain and standing up fresh as new. Maybe Moriah took his idea from how he knows Kaido functions? Like in that Oars primary function in getting his revenge wasn't just to be huge and limitlessly strong but also never relenting and tiring in order to try to wear this thing down. I mean we know that people have taken Kaido on and won in some form, but maybe the catch is that he never stops coming back up and you can't contain him or keep him down in the long run.
Since he was captured so many times most of his life and did experiments on him kaidou must be like the reverse blackbead, he can't feel pain, luffy has to find a way to make him feel the pain.
@uniaka:
Since he was captured so many times most of his life and did experiments on him kaidou must be like the reverse blackbead, he can't feel pain, luffy has to find a way to make him feel the pain.
Except his grimace while taking a beating shows that he does feel pain.
Feels pain but doesn't get injured.
Can you provide proof of this please? I personally have only seen WhiteBeard as stated to have stalemated Roger. I remember Garp cornering Roger but never any mention of them being equals.
=D
When Roger entrusted Garp with Ace, Roger said that him and Garp almost killed each other many times.
Except his grimace while taking a beating shows that he does feel pain.
Feels pain but doesn't get injured.
It's probably like a regular person hitting an MMA fighter.
Ohhh that explains it all!
It's probably like a regular person hitting an MMA fighter.
If it was only this short exchange, maybe, but when you couple it with what the narrator said, there might be more to it.
If Luffy defeat Kaido by his own power that's it. Only a EOS BB and Im could pose a threat to him.
This is why I think he has to defeat an admiral in this arc, and that admiral will be Ryokugyu, to help bridge the gap to Kaido.
Also I'm one of those who thinks Shanks is absurdly strong, so he could still pose quite a threat to Luffy after Kaido.
i think regardless of Luffy powering up, he's not taking Kaido alone
At this point the forces they have would be lackluster, even if Luffy did get a power up
They need a few more supernovas, jinbe, marco and possibly weevil to enterr the fray
@uniaka:
Like he took hits for 11 hours from katakuri, so this 1 punch of kaidou is equivalent of 11 hours katakuri punches? Difference can't be that big between vice yonkou and yonkou.
Or Dogtooth is great at dodging and suck at punching.
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She was a target because of her abilities that Holdem's subordinates told him about. For all we know, Kaido didn't even know about her. So yes, if it wasn't for Luffy going the extra mile and punching Holdem, it would have not happened.
He saved Tama from Holden and that was that… The part of punching Holdem has zeroto do with Saving Tama. That was Luffy getting revenge and that’s what led to al this
He met the girl when she was a target and has been a target since then. There's no reason he should suddenly be blaming since the person that took care of the girl is the same group that has been targetting her since the start. It could make sense for the poor people village he brought food because they were behaving and Luffy brung them stolen food or even the strawhats that were trying to stay hidden and Luffy made them public. But there's no reason for him to consider he made the girl a target because she was already a target by that group. Several times.
i think regardless of Luffy powering up, he's not taking Kaido alone
At this point the forces they have would be lackluster, even if Luffy did get a power up
They need a few more supernovas, jinbe, marco and possibly weevil to enterr the fray
Yeah, there's no way he'll beat Kaido one on one, because who the hell else could match Luffy then until the end of the story? After all, we still have Elbaf, finding the 4th Poneglyph and probably dealing with CP0/Meeting Dragon, as well. Just off the top off my head.
But I do think he will become strong enough to fight really strong people without Gear 4th, at least.