Unchipu does indeed have a point. You don't have to be the Fastest nor the strongest to be the best. What makes one the best is SKILL and EXPERIENCE and Mihawk is obviously above everyone in that department.
Mihawk vs Logia users [May contain spoilers]
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Are people here forgeting that Zoro is prety fast himself? In terms of natural speed, Zoro was probably the second fastest SH before Luffy learn Zoro. And in fact, Zoro may still be faster then Luffy.
What people are forgetting is that Soru is a technique to move fast between areas, and not neccessarily natural speed. Notice in the Sanji vs. Jyabura fight, Sanji most of the time beat Jyabura in speed, yet one time he used Soru and Sanji lost track of him. Bascailly, I'm saying that Kaku does not move at Soru speed at all times.
And blocking his strikes is a different matter. You'd just have to put you swords in the right place before Kaku strikes.
Now, is Mihawk stronger then Kaku? Yes, and probably be a large margin unless he's in the next arc. This infers that he can cuts through tekkai and counter the speed of soru. Maybe he isn't as fast as it, but I doubt that anything Kaku could do would overhwhlem Mihawk, unless Kaku is unknowingly the 2 strongest swordsman in the world.
And then theres the fact, what he saw at the Baratie. I recall Mihawk using his sword to reflect bullets being shot at him, all the while Mihawk without a hint of fear, concern, or even sense of danger in his eyes. To him, that bullet wasn't a threat, which I think suggests that a bullet isn't too fast in his eyes. Plus, he did kind of move in a "Soru-like motion" (no, not using soru, but "moving fast" like soru would) in his last attack on Zoro.
Lastly, how strong do people think Mihawk is? Unless by a unbelievable plot twist, Mihawk is Zoro's final opponent–which suggests that he will be very strong. Not just "stronger then anyone which a sword," but more like the 2nd strongest person in the world(or close to it), like Zoro is considered the 2nd strongest SH.
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Zoro is super-fast no doubt, even by CP9 standards. It's just that he can't move over a distance at soru-like speeds, though he can go over a distance faster than the normal eye can see. Sanji can go a soru speed because his legs are just that strong. Of course Zoro arms are compartivley just as strong, but people normally don't use arms for running. Zoro could just stick his swords in the ground and use them to go uber fast.
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Are people here forgeting that Zoro is prety fast himself? In terms of natural speed, Zoro was probably the second strongest SH before Luffy learn Zoro. And in fact, Zoro may still be faster then Luffy.
Zoro and Luffy were equal as far as the manga is concerned.
What people are forgetting is that Soru is a technique to move fast between areas, and not neccessarily natural speed. Notice in the Sanji vs. Jyabura fight, Sanji most of the time beat Jyabura in speed, yet one time he used Soru and Sanji lost track of him. Bascailly, I'm saying that Kaku does not move at Soru speed at all times.
And blocking his strikes is a different matter. You'd just have to put you swords in the right place before Kaku strikes.
Yes Soru is a technique that allows them to kick the ground tens times really quickly. Oda said it is equal to Kuro's technique. Zoro blocking Kaku strikes took more than just putting his swords in the right place. Things like reflexes and seeing Kaku's movements.
Now, is Kaku stronger then Miwhawk? Yes, and probably be a large margin unless he's in the next arc. This infers that he can cuts through tekkai and counter the speed of soru. Maybe he isn't as fast as it, but I doubt that anything Kaku could do would overhwhlem Mihawk, unless Kaku is unknowingly the 2 strongest swordsman in the world.
WTF
I can't believe you said Kaku is stronger than the "Greatest Swordsman In the World." or is this a typo.And then theres the fact, what he saw at the Baratie. I recall Mihawk using his sword to reflect bullets being shot at him, all the while Mihawk without a hint of fear, concern, or even sense of danger in his eyes. To him, that bullet wasn't a threat, which I think suggests that a bullet isn't too fast in his eyes. Plus, he did kind of move in a "Soru-like motion" (no, not using soru, but "moving fast" like soru would) in his last attack on Zoro.
Mihawk didn't even look at the bullets when he deflected them. Mihawk's speed is obviously greater than Soru.
Lastly, how strong do people think Mihawk is? Unless by a unbelievable plot twist, Mihawk is Zoro's final opponent–which suggests that he will be very strong. Not just "stronger then anyone which a sword," but more like the 2nd strongest person in the world(or close to it), like Zoro is considered the 2nd strongest SH.
I believe that Mihawk could be behind Whitebeard along with Shanks. It is very possible.
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
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Zoro and Luffy were equal as far as the manga is concerned.
Typo. Zoro is faster then Luffy, I said, This is based on Luffy struggling in speed against Kuro and learning Soru in this arc to keep up with the CP9.
Yes Soru is a technique that allows them to kick the ground tens times really quickly. Oda said it is equal to Kuro's technique. Zoro blocking Kaku strikes took more than just putting his swords in the right place. Things like reflexes and seeing Kaku's movements.
Yeah, with less detail that's kind of what I meant. Putting your swords in the right place to block require reflexes and seeing his movements is required, but it doesn't necessarily require Zoro to be faster then Kaku, if I'm working in the "Zoro is much slower then Kaku" theory.
WTF
I can't believe you said Kaku is stronger than the "Greatest Swordsman In the World." or is this a typo.Yep
Mihawk didn't even look at the bullets when he deflected them. Mihawk's speed is obviously greater than Soru.
I believe that Mihawk could be behind Whitebeard along with Shanks. It is very possible.
Edit: For most of this post baring types, you're pretty much agreeing with me? What's up with that? :blink:
My last post is full of typos indeed. I'm fixing it.
It's late dammit…
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The way Zoro progresses each arc and the differance between Zoro currently and Hawkeyes, makes it impossible for Mihawk to be able to put up a fight with end-ofmanga Zoro if his speed is anywhere near Kaku's. It would have to be faaaar above.
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> The way Zoro progresses each arc and the differance between Zoro currently and Hawkeyes, makes it impossible for Mihawk to be able to put up a fight with end-ofmanga Zoro if his speed is anywhere near Kaku's. It would have to be faaaar above.
Basic logic really.
Actually, I'd go on to say that the Straw Hats were already much faster than CP9 physically when you discount Soru. So you could turn it around and say that Kaku was having to use Soru just to keep up with Zoro's unenhanced speed. Same with Sanji and Jyabura. In a flat race, Jyabura's Soru could catch up to and surpass Sanji quickly in pure speed, but in close combat Sanji was obviously the faster with his footwork.
Seems more impressive when you turn it on it's head like that.
Mihawk's just plain old foot speed most likely shames even Kaku and co's Soru enhanced speed. Your talking about the uttermost swordsman in the world - Kaku would be beyond utter trash by that point.
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Typo. Zoro is faster then Luffy, I said, This is based on Luffy struggling in speed against Kuro and learning Soru in this arc to keep up with the CP9. Yeah, with less detail that's kind of what I meant. Putting your swords in the right place to block require reflexes and seeing his movements is required, but it doesn't necessarily require Zoro to be faster then Kaku, if I'm working in the "Zoro is much slower then Kaku" theory.
Yep
Edit: For most of this post baring types, you're pretty much agreeing with me? What's up with that? :blink:
My last post is full of typos indeed. I'm fixing it.
It's late dammit…
Exactly I agree with you. I believe that Zoro was slower than Kaku. Hell, who knows Zoro could have been using some of that "Breath" technique in his bout with Kaku.
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As far as I know, the only areas where Zoro significantly increases in power each arc are in swordsmanship, and physical power. He probably gets a little faster each time too, but does that mean that by the end of the series he'll be significantly faster than soru? I'm not really sure that it does. So far in this series, I think soru is the fastest movement ability we've seen, so maybe it's actually near the "physical limit" attainable by human beings. If there is such an absolute limit to power attainable by humans, then Mihawk doesn't have to be faster than Kaku to keep up with end-of-series Zoro, since everyone is approaching this limit, but not quite reaching it. Think of it like absolute zero temperature. You can get really close, but you never get to it.
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Zoro increases in everything every arc and then some. Plus if he becomes physically more powerful that also means he is becoming faster. Power and speed are dependent on each other, they create each other.
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So far in this series, I think soru is the fastest movement ability we've seen, so maybe it's actually near the "physical limit" attainable by human beings.
Gear 2 > Soru
filling space
And yes I know he's made of rubber and all, but doesn anybody really think that Oda has already made Luffy faster than the fastest upper end fighters he will come across?
Maybe Luffy using Gear 2 a few hundred issues from now
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**In truth, there is no definate human limit. It more because we start out at a certain strengh and training can olny increase your strengh soo much at a time. It always seems that no matter how strong someone is, someone else has the potiental to become just a little bit stronger.
but this is just by opinion.**
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**> Plus if he becomes physically more powerful that also means he is becoming faster. Power and speed are dependent on each other, they create each other.
nuh uh :)
being able to balance 10 tons on the end of your sword wont make you run faster.** -
In Conclusion… Mihawk is a beast, we all know that.
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nuh uh :)
being able to balance 10 tons on the end of your sword wont make you run faster.**Do you not understand? Power and speed are related to each other. People have a weird tendancy to think that more raw power = slower. This is not true at all. the reason a lot of those big guys aren't as fast as those skinny guys is because they can't pull their own weight as well as the skinny one's can. Even though they have more power.
Also speed over a distance is achieved by pushing of a surface. If you can already handle the weight of your muscles, then gaining more strengh will make you faster. It is diretly related to the amount of force you use to puch of.
So if someone were to become suddenly twice as strong physiccaly they would become somewhere near twice as fast.
and for the record, if you can balance ten tons on your nose, you can probaley run damn fast. probaley.**
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the point i was going for was that upper body strength does not make you run faster
**> and for the record, if you can balance ten tons on your nose, you can probaley run damn fast. probaley.
yeah, but it has nothing to do with being able to balance 10 tons on your nose**
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@Octogon:
**Do you not understand? Power and speed are related to each other. People have a weird tendancy to think that more raw power = slower. This is not true at all. the reason a lot of those big guys aren't as fast as those skinny guys is because they can't pull their own weight as well as the skinny one's can. Even though they have more power.
Also speed over a distance is achieved by pushing of a surface. If you can already handle the weight of your muscles, then gaining more strengh will make you faster. It is diretly related to the amount of force you use to puch of.
So if someone were to become suddenly twice as strong physiccaly they would become somewhere near twice as fast.
and for the record, if you can balance ten tons on your nose, you can probaley run damn fast. probaley.**
This is all accurate!
Especially for me because I play Football and this is the truth. Good post Octogon.
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the point i was going for was that upper body strength does not make you run faster
Upeer body strengh definatley helps in running.
yeah, but it has nothing to do with being able to balance 10 tons on your nose
It's not like you nose is doing all the work, you know. Think about what your legs are supporting. A hell of a lot.
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What pirate would want to be a Shichibukai if they just get killed off for not being strong enough?
Any of them most likely. Pirates are not exactly known for being humble and most of them strong enough to be Shichibukai probably have no concept that anybody could beat them outside of Whitebeard, who is probably given a wide berth by everybody, including the Navy.
Even then, there's no real downside to being a Shichibukai; if the World Government did turn on you, the time spent as a Shichibukai would be far better than the same amount of time spent as a regular pirate. The ultimate fate would be the same either; if you're weak enough to be killed, then somebody will eventually do it, so you might as well live in as much luxury as you can while you can.
don't think so.One strong pirate wouldn't help since he can't cover all of the grandline so they decided it had the be 7 of them.
Actually, we don't know how they came about the system of having seven of them; it might just have been how many agreed to the deal in the first place.
You can't let one kill another since you already got the strongest available and every possible replacement would lower the average power of the shichibukai and therefore their overall use.
The strongest available at the time does not necessarily mean that somebody else isn't going to come along that's stronger in the interim and that would be a better fit for the institution. Weeding out weaker members will make the Shichibukai stronger, not weaker so long as suitable candidates exist and they obviously do.
so they are the strongest available and can't be replaced just like that so even if one could kill another it won't be allowed and therefore their individual strengths could very well be quite different.
Considering that the immediate reaction of the Gorosei was to have a selection committee pick out reasonable candidates to fill Crocodile's spot suggests that there are plenty of pirates on or near that level. As it happened, they went with a relative unknown more or less because he had the chutzpah to have a messenger sneak into one of the most important facilities in the world. That and Donquixote was obviously bored and wanted to get it over with.
@Fire Fist:
I think the Gyojin / Giants have something to do with the 3rd power.
I tend to think that the Three Great Powers the Gorosei refer to are institutions, it'd be hard to fit either of those into such a frame.
The two known powers range in size from a global Navy to a seven-man privateer unit that roams at will. The third is probably somewhere in between; it might even be constructed of several World Government organizations like Cipher Pol and the Judiciary (provided that the Judiciary is not simply part of the Navy, it could work either way). It might even be the World Government itself, which would be odd as it'd put the World Government on the same level as its own smaller branches.
The Fishmen or Giants are powerful, but there's a good chance that Erbaf has become somewhat insulated from the world at large while they wait for Dorry and Broggy to return. They're a fairly patient bunch and might well be waiting for Oimo and Karsie to return with their chiefs.
There are giants that are not from Erbaf, but we've only seen one of them for certain: Sauro, who was a member of the Navy.
The Fishmen, on the other hand, are represented within the Shichibukai and it'd be odd to see an organization dominated by them that doesn't include one of, if not the, most influential/powerful members of that tribe. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the Shichibukai isn't a giant; not necessarily an Erbafian giant, but at least a demigiant in the same size range as Jerry or Whitebeard.
Complicating things since 2009.
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> Upeer body strengh definatley helps in running. what, in terms of balance?
But backing up a little bit, i see no reason Zoro cant run faster or swing faster than Mihawk. Dont get me wrong, im not claiming he does or even that he likly does, but i think the technique of Mihawk would compensate more than enough, and is probally the reason, more than physical strength, that he is considered the wbs. Its like taking a professional sprinter, and someone with the exact same body and have them race, except more so
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I wish I remembered where I read it (I'm pretty sure it was up on Wikipedia for a time), but in one of the Databooks it was said that Mihawk can cut through the elements.
Just putting that out there. He isn't the world's greatest swordsman for nothing.
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what, in terms of balance?
**Balance does play a role, I suppose. But why do you think people swing their arms when they rund? The faster you swing your arms the more you are propelling your body etc…
And if your upper body is too much weaker than your lower and you run,,,,,,,ouch.**
But backing up a little bit, i see no reason Zoro cant run faster or swing faster than Mihawk. Dont get me wrong, im not claiming he does or even that he likly does, but i think the technique of Mihawk would compensate more than enough, and is probally the reason, more than physical strength, that he is considered the wbs. Its like taking a professional sprinter, and someone with the exact same body and have them race, except more so
**Swordsman A
Skill: 1000
Strengh: 100
Speed: 100Swordsman B
Skill: 100
strengh: 1000
Speed: 1000Who's onna win? Swordsman B. And to tell the truth the little chart I just made isn't entirley accurate, I was just trying to prove a point. Why? Because skill is how well you can use your weapon. And the body and blade are 2 parts of the same whole.**
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Actually, we don't know how they came about the system of having seven of them; it might just have been how many agreed to the deal in the first place.
That's more or less irrelevant, no? I hoped we could agree that, in any case, the WG would want a handfull and not just one that kill off all other candidates until there's no one left and pirates weren't afraif anymore since it's unlikely they would ever meet that single WG-approved Ãœber-Pirate.
The strongest available at the time does not necessarily mean that somebody else isn't going to come along that's stronger in the interim and that would be a better fit for the institution. Weeding out weaker members will make the Shichibukai stronger, not weaker so long as suitable candidates exist and they obviously do.
Of course i agree that stronger candidates might show up but that doesn't interfere with my main point.
Anyhow, there will be an end to stronger wannabe shichibukai so it's still an explanation for a strength level that's not flat.
the fact that they even agreed to wating for whatever the BBs come up with to get a reputation might imply that they are running out of options.
Considering that the immediate reaction of the Gorosei was to have a selection committee pick out reasonable candidates to fill Crocodile's spot suggests that there are plenty of pirates on or near that level. As it happened, they went with a relative unknown more or less because he had the chutzpah to have a messenger sneak into one of the most important facilities in the world. That and Donquixote was obviously bored and wanted to get it over with.
It doesn't necessarily suggest that there are known, powerful candidates.
As far as i am concerned, it's like i said above that they don't know any really
powerful candidates anymore and because of that were willing to accept lafite's proposal.Yibis One Piece Fansubs
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In Grand data book Red it said that he was able to cut elements wind, lightning, etc.
Please, someone translate that passage, i beg you^^
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
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@Octogon:
Skill: 1000
Strengh: 100
Speed: 100Swordsman B
Skill: 100
strengh: 1000
Speed: 1000Who's onna win? Swordsman B. And to tell the truth the little chart I just made isn't entirley accurate, I was just trying to prove a point. Why? Because skill is how well you can use your weapon. And the body and blade are 2 parts of the same whole.
Sorry Swordsman A wins because he is the more balanced and his skill is greater.
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I would think that Swordsman A will win by a landslide even…..having a better skill can overcome swordsman B with better strength and speed......
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@Octogon:
And if your upper body is too much weaker than your lower and you run,,,,,,,ouch. **Swordsman A
Skill: 1000
Strengh: 100
Speed: 100Swordsman B
Skill: 100
strengh: 1000
Speed: 1000Who's onna win? Swordsman B. And to tell the truth the little chart I just made isn't entirley accurate, I was just trying to prove a point. Why? Because skill is how well you can use your weapon. And the body and blade are 2 parts of the same whole.**
My friend, I was with you throughout this topic, but this post is too much.
No, no freaking way does swordsman B have anything on swordsman A.I used to play basketball some years ago, very regularly, even for my schools team. I was never very fast, I was a good defender and had a high % in 3pt however.
Never-the-less despite being created by the ones above to play as a foward, I loved playing gaurd.One day I decided to play straight up street ball one on one against my teams gaurd, he was faster, taller and had a better inside shot than me.
I only took 2 3pt shots that game, and yet I still won by 7 pts.
My point in all this: I won because my dribbling, fake-outs and defense where on a different level than him.
Skill counts for more than physical ability could EVER hope to achieve. A guy that can benchpress 500 lbs can try to go swing a bat at a baseball, but that doesn't mean he'll hit a homerun.Sports, swordfighting, duels (guns/weapons) are like 90% mental and 10% physical, not to say that 10% isn't extremely important.
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My friend, I was with you throughout this topic, but this post is too much.
No, no freaking way does swordsman B have anything on swordsman A.**Really?
Swordman B has a lot on swordman A. A lot.**
I used to play basketball some years ago, very regularly, even for my schools team. I was never very fast, I was a good defender and had a high % in 3pt however.
Never-the-less despite being created by the ones above to play as a foward, I loved playing gaurd.One day I decided to play straight up street ball one on one against my teams gaurd, he was faster, taller and had a better inside shot than me.
I only took 2 3pt shots that game, and yet I still won by 7 pts.
My point in all this: I won because my dribbling, fake-outs and defense where on a different level than him.
Skill counts for more than physical ability could EVER hope to achieve. A guy that can benchpress 500 lbs can try to go swing a bat at a baseball, but that doesn't mean he'll hit a homerun.Sports, swordfighting, duels (guns/weapons) are like 90% mental and 10% physical, not to say that 10% isn't extremely important.
**First of, Basket ball is not fighting.
And people must understand that skill without power and speed are useless, that's right useless. Swordsman A is a weakling when compared to swordman B because A can't do anyhing to B, even though he knows how and what to do.
Strengh and speed can be used without much skill. Even though one can become much stronger by just urilizing a little skill.
So explain to me how A can beat B? B has 10X the power and speed of A. A does have !0x the skill of B, but he still can't do shit. Skill is how well you can use your physical, mental and spirtual body.
So it's true that if you have more skill you can defeat a stronger/faster enemy. But no if the differance is too big. Because there's no way in hell that if Zoro (with a sword that can harm supes) and Superman had a swordfight, Zoro would win. It's just not gonna happen.**
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@Octogon:
Really?
Swordman B has a lot on swordman A. A lot.
First of, Basket ball is not fighting.
And people must understand that skill without power and speed are useless, that's right useless. Swordsman A is a weakling when compared to swordman B because A can't do anyhing to B, even though he knows how and what to do.
Strengh and speed can be used without much skill. Even though one can become much stronger by just urilizing a little skill.
So explain to me how A can beat B? B has 10X the power and speed of A. A does have !0x the skill of B, but he still can't do shit. Skill is how well you can use your physical, mental and spirtual body.
So it's true that if you have more skill you can defeat a stronger/faster enemy. But no if the differance is too big. Because there's no way in hell that if Zoro (with a sword that can harm supes) and Superman had a swordfight, Zoro would win. It's just not gonna happen.
Despite being a former B-ball defensive player myself, I'll have to agree with Octogon here, Refi. The two sports are very different.
If Mihawk were called the greatest only because he had great skill, than he'd have been defeated a looong time ago. I could know how to shoot as well as Dwayne Wade, but if I'm as slow as a turtle with prostate cancer, and my biceps look like wet noodles, I am going to loose.
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I disagree, I used basketball as an example, and despite what you're saying I still think it applies.
There's a reason older sports players don't retire at 29 when their bodies start feeling heavier, experience. I'll use futball this time:While Wayne Rooney, and Cristiano Ronaldo, are both physically faster and stronger than Zinedine Zidane at this point in his life (despite the fact that he is still very fit), Zidane can run circles around them.
Why? Skill, absolute un-adulterated skill. To make a ball bounce over your opponents head takes 0% speed and strength, but 100% skill. To know how to dribble past any opponent whether it's basketball/soccer/football/hockey ANY SPORT, it takes experience and knowing what your opponent will do before they do it.All physical activities suffer from an event called telegraphing, fencing and swordsfighting are NO different. An opponent that has faced 100 swordsman that faces the worlds fastest (American) football player in a swordfight that has faced no opponents, but knows how to handle a sword, will not lose.
Even if the football player chooses to drop his sword, you're opposing razor sharp steel with flesh and blood. Now you may say "flesh and blood are strong enough to resist steel in One Piece" and my response will be "Zoro would never drop his swords and fight with his fists."We are talking swords, sword-fighting-ability. Mihawk does not need to lift a building in order to turn Zoro's swords into paper, he needs only the arm strength to shift the weight of his own sword around. As you saw in their first skirmish, Mihawk simply placed his knife in the central point of contact where Zoro's Katana's joined to strike and stopped it, why? Because it is the same concept as placing something in between gears to block their movement and stop them dead in their tracks, a piece of metal can stop Big Ben from ringing on time every day simply by chocking the connection of one of the gears.
As far as Mihawk being defeated long time ago.. is Nami physically strong? Ussop? Yassop (debateable)? In my opinion, skill and mental capacity to out-think someone in the middle of an adrenaline rush counts for 99% of the battle. When you're bleeding/being hit by a deadly object your mind doesn't think "dodge, spin, slash, dodge, slash" etc, it thinks "hit hit hit hit hit" or "run run run run run." I used sports for this reason, just like in a fight, when those seconds are winding down, if you have no coach to direct you, all you can think is "score score score" otherwise I wouldn't have used the allusion. Anyway: 90% mental, 10% physical.
Quote: "Bruce Lee did not stress the memorization of solo training forms or "Kata", as most traditional styles do in their beginning-level training. Lee often compared doing forms without an opponent to attempting to learn to swim on dry land. Lee believed that "real" combat was "alive" and "dynamic". Circumstances in a fight change from millisecond to millisecond, and thus pre-arranged patterns and techniques are not adequate in dealing with such a changing situation." Why do I quote him? Because a swordsman with 100 skill as you put it would not have the real life experience to adapt, whereas someone with 10x his experience would.
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But in Mangas there are HUGE difference between Charakters. You can have the greatest skill on earth but if you cant see , cant mess with his stengh and speed and if you cant react because the opponent is to fast, your skill is crap
because you dont have the chance to use your skills. -
I disagree, I used basketball as an example, and despite what you're saying I still think it applies.
It might apply, in a sense. Nut fighting isn't Basket-Ball, Foot-Ball, Soccer, Rugby or anything else. It is kicking each other's ass. And in an all out fight, lives are at stake. One fatal error could mean death 10 times over.
There's a reason older sports players don't retire at 29 when their bodies start feeling heavier, experience. I'll use futball this time:
Okay, so? The differance between the older players and the younger one's isn't anywhere as near as big as it is between Mihawk and Zoro. And it is true that supior expirance and skill can defeat a physically supior opponent, but again even that has a limit.
While Wayne Rooney, and Cristiano Ronaldo, are both physically faster and stronger than Zinedine Zidane at this point in his life (despite the fact that he is still very fit), Zidane can run circles around them.
Why? Skill, absolute un-adulterated skill. To make a ball bounce over your opponents head takes 0% speed and strength, but 100% skill. To know how to dribble past any opponent whether it's basketball/soccer/football/hockey ANY SPORT, it takes experience and knowing what your opponent will do before they do it.0% speed and strengh? No. It DOES take some speed and strengh, everything does.
All physical activities suffer from an event called telegraphing, fencing and swordsfighting are NO different. An opponent that has faced 100 swordsman that faces the worlds fastest (American) football player in a swordfight that has faced no opponents, but knows how to handle a sword, will not lose.
What's you point? Of course he won't lose. To say he would lose is completley absurd. But if this football player was able to move a mach speeds, the swordman is deadmeat.
Even if the football player chooses to drop his sword, you're opposing razor sharp steel with flesh and blood. Now you may say "flesh and blood are strong enough to resist steel in One Piece" and my response will be "Zoro would never drop his swords and fight with his fists."
Yeah.
We are talking swords, sword-fighting-ability. Mihawk does not need to lift a building in order to turn Zoro's swords into paper, he needs only the arm strength to shift the weight of his own sword around. As you saw in their first skirmish, Mihawk simply placed his knife in the central point of contact where Zoro's Katana's joined to strike and stopped it, why? Because it is the same concept as placing something in between gears to block their movement and stop them dead in their tracks, a piece of metal can stop Big Ben from ringing on time every day simply by chocking the connection of one of the gears.
**First of, Mihawk needs a lot of strengh to be able to cut steel. He neeeds a lot of speed and power to be able to cut the air itself.
Its is true that Mihawk stopping Zoro's Oni-Giri is similar to a piece of properly placed metal stoping a whole bunch of gears. But Mihawk did require strengh much, much greater than Zoro for him to stop it. Becuase if we somehow were able to put that knife in the same position Mihawk was, Zoro would slice through us.**
As far as Mihawk being defeated long time ago.. is Nami physically strong? Ussop? Yassop (debateable)? In my opinion, skill and mental capacity to out-think someone in the middle of an adrenaline rush counts for 99% of the battle. When you're bleeding/being hit by a deadly object your mind doesn't think "dodge, spin, slash, dodge, slash" etc, it thinks "hit hit hit hit hit" or "run run run run run." I used sports for this reason, just like in a fight, when those seconds are winding down, if you have no coach to direct you, all you can think is "score score score" otherwise I wouldn't have used the allusion. Anyway: 90% mental, 10% physical.
**Usopp and Nami's power and speed come from their weapons, not their bodies. Even they need fast and powerful weapons. Just look how far kabuto can shoot. Kabuto has a shitload of power which turns into speed.
And the fact is that there is no way in hell Mihawk became the best just because of skill. It didn't happen. This is a fact. If somehow he did, he would have had lost the next day.**
Quote: "Bruce Lee did not stress the memorization of solo training forms or "Kata", as most traditional styles do in their beginning-level training. Lee often compared doing forms without an opponent to attempting to learn to swim on dry land. Lee believed that "real" combat was "alive" and "dynamic". Circumstances in a fight change from millisecond to millisecond, and thus pre-arranged patterns and techniques are not adequate in dealing with such a changing situation." Why do I quote him? Because a swordsman with 100 skill as you put it would not have the real life experience to adapt, whereas someone with 10x his experience would.
**I know this quote very well, and let me tell you that it in no way helps you.
I am right, it's a fact. Batman (no-prep) can't beat super-man.**
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I tend to think that the Three Great Powers the Gorosei refer to are institutions, it'd be hard to fit either of those into such a frame.
The two known powers range in size from a global Navy to a seven-man privateer unit that roams at will. The third is probably somewhere in between; it might even be constructed of several World Government organizations like Cipher Pol and the Judiciary (provided that the Judiciary is not simply part of the Navy, it could work either way). It might even be the World Government itself, which would be odd as it'd put the World Government on the same level as its own smaller branches.
All of that doesn't fit with Johny's description of the three powers of Grandline back in the Baratie days; first, I doubt the Marine in its entirety is one of the powers;
first of all, we know the three groups form a balance of power: it's a little bit farfetched to think Sengoku, the 3 Admirals, the Vice Admirals and possible other unknown, lower ranked but extremely powerful fighters like Smoker, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of personnels and huge battle ships form a power that barely compare to that of 7 men, especially as to become Shichibukai you have to abandon your crew.
Then, we know Grandline is called the Pirates Grave because of these 3 groups; we can deduct these groups are particular to the GL, you don't find them elsewhere, but the Marine and Cypher Pol are spread throughout the world. You could say this description fit soldiers from Marine Headquarters, as you can only find them on Grandline; but we've seen it wasn't the case, with Fullbody roaming the Eastblue seas.
Please, someone translate that passage, i beg you^^
You'll have trouble finding someone to translate, as it doesn't exist. It is never said anywhere in Red and Blue data books that Mihawk can cut elements.
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You'll have trouble finding someone to translate, as it doesn't exist. It is never said anywhere in Red and Blue data books that Mihawk can cut elements.
Yes it does. Just ask someone with the databooks. There have been quite a few people who have them to say it says he can cut the elements.
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@Octogon:
Yes it does. Just ask someone with the databooks. There have been quite a few people who have them to say it says he can cut the elements.
As much as I believe in your word Octogon, I need to see some proof.
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@Octogon:
Yes it does. Just ask someone with the databooks. There have been quite a few people who have them to say it says he can cut the elements.
Well I've been asking myself a couple of times, and the answer is still the same: IT IS SAID NOWHERE MIHAWK CAN CUT ELEMENTS.
I can type the entire text dedicated to Mihawk in both books if you want, there's nothing. Why would I lie?
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Well I've been asking myself a couple of times, and the answer is still the same: IT IS SAID NOWHERE MIHAWK CAN CUT ELEMENTS.
I can type the entire text dedicated to Mihawk in both books if you want, there's nothing. Why would I lie?
Grats. Looks like that statement got them to stop.
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especially as to become Shichibukai you have to abandon your crew.
if my memory isnt playing tricks on me i think it was good ol Ivotas who made it quite clear that it had actualy never been stated that you had to abandon your crew in order to land a shichbibukai seat and that it was just as baseless a claim as the Mihawk can cut earth wind and fire statments you just tried to put an end to.
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OK, my bad then. Doesn't change anything to the rest of my point though.
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Well I've been asking myself a couple of times, and the answer is still the same: IT IS SAID NOWHERE MIHAWK CAN CUT ELEMENTS.
I can type the entire text dedicated to Mihawk in both books if you want, there's nothing. Why would I lie?
Alright, I can't prove it. But there were a few epeople who have the databooks in japenease and have said so themselves on these forums. So I'll drop it until I can get proof.
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To the point of A and B, well, think about Kuina.
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
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To the point of A and B, well, think about Kuina.
Didn't she beat Zoro in every area of swordfighting, not just skill? But my point still stands. I think you understand.
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I was agreeing. Being a woman was going to hold her back physically, and though she was far beyond the others in skill, she admitted that even the loser kids would be able to beat her eventually.
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
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What the hell's appening here? Speed and strength vs. skill? Dammit, any good warrior needs all of those, not just one or the other! Skill is useless if the opponent is much, much stronger and faster then you, yet this oppenent still needs enough skill to anticipate attacks. Meanwhile, someone with too much skill can beat anyone, just as long as they have enough strength and skill to hit/hurt that guy.
Now Mihawk, will most likely have a lot of each. After all, he rocked Zoro with just a soft neck chop last time they met, and Zoro could enough getting throw into rock at the time.
I mean, what do you think the fight against the strongest swordsman in the world will be like? "Oh, this guy sure is skilled, but it's a good thing I'm faster then him!" Not likely.
And speaking of Mihawk vs. Logias, you know, many of us are saying that Mihawk couldn't beat the logias without getting past the "logia defense." but then again neither could Luffy when he first met Croc. Who's to say that Mihawk couldn't figure it out like Luffy did? Hell, he's probably a hell of a lot smarter too.
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The chop actually only happened in the anime. But yeah, I doubt Mihawk would be weak, and we know he's fast.
And I think that would only apply to Crocodile. Aokiji's weakness, heat, should be more obvious, and yet, he's at the top of the Marine foodchain. I'm not sure if Mihawk could beat him with a flaming sword or anything.
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
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Come to think of it, is it ever established that the Admirals are stronger then the Shichibukai? I forget. I just remember that the Admirals are "the strongest in the marines."
It seems to me that, if the Admirals had the powre to kill the shichibukai, such as Mihawk, then the WG would have just sent them instead of making these powerful pirates shichibukai.
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@Octogon:
I am right, it's a fact. Batman (no-prep) can't beat super-man.
Actually dude, ninety percent of the time, that's not true.. even without prep Batman always seems to beat Superman despite whatever power/speed/bs excuse the comic guys come up with.
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I was agreeing. Being a woman was going to hold her back physically, and though she was far beyond the others in skill, she admitted that even the loser kids would be able to beat her eventually.
**Oh, I see what you meant now.
No warrior can be only skill, for that means they are made of fail. As you know, skill is the ability to use what you got, in this case strengh and speed. Which is why I said my little chart I made was flawed. Cause there's no way some one with 1000 skil would have 100 strengh or defense.**
