Your snark is your defining feature since you've started posting here, can't say I blame them.
Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
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Glad I make an impression.
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The problem with this is that we see the fishmen only a few chapters after Pedro explodes and Aladdin is just standing (treading water?) next to Praline. That explosion took Perospero's arm off, and Pedro took it point blank in the chest. I don't think any doctor could finish an operation like that so fast. That was well before we started getting time jumps every chapter, so this is still very soon after the explosion. Also, it probably took them a long time in order to call for all sea slugs in BM's entire territory and for the sea slugs to gather around Praline from their spots at every corner of BM's territory.
It's much more likely that the fishmen were busy with the slugs rather than hanging out near the coast (and not helping the strawhats and Jimbei fight the BM pirates for some reason).
There's a clear gap of MIA from when Praline distract the sea slugs & them showing up this chapter. I just reread the chapter & not all the Sun Pirates were there when Praline was distracting the sea slug. Wadatsumi, in particular, was not there.
One of the Sun Pirates could have easily saved him. Within the 10 hours gap for the strawhats to arrive at Cacao Island, Aladin could have easily given him medical treatment.
Is it very coincidental? Yeah.
But it is not the first time Oda done this to justify someone not dying.
It's not, but it's even more far-fetched how Perospero, who was literally on top of him, didn't get blown off into the sea.
Or Big Mom, who was even closer to the Sunny than either Pedro and Perospero.His devil fruit saved him.
He also created the candy wave slug thing(?) that carried Big mom with him on her shoulder. -
@Below:
Glad we're focusing on my snark and not the things I've said that no one commented on because they want their rabbit girl to be a main character so badly that they'll ignore valid points and keep reiterating the same "she's a lookout" or "her personality will come later" arguments.
Ok, go for it.
State your valid points for why you think she won't join and I'll address them.
A numbered list please, so I can address each argument individually.
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@Below:
Glad we're focusing on my snark and not the things I've said that no one commented on because they want their rabbit girl to be a main character so badly that they'll ignore valid points and keep reiterating the same "she's a lookout" or "her personality will come later" arguments.
Ignore lists are a thing, so that may be why. People around here generally like good discussion, regardless of the side of an argument. Too much snark and too little substance and people could generally either gloss over or ignore posts like yours completely. This isn't a lecture, I'm just stating how I see things.
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His devil fruit saved him.
He also created the candy wave slug thing(?) that carried Big mom with him on her shoulder.Doesn't explain the case with Big Mom.
The Candy Slug wasn't shown till Chapter 879 which was used to traverse the sea carrying Big Mom.
Nor does it explain why none of Big Mom's crew members not noticing Pedro's body. -
@Below:
Glad I make an impression.
With all due respect, you really should stop doing this.
I don't think Carrot is joining the crew and so do many other users.
But we are given our own arguments & engaging in a discussion.You clearly have no interest in engaging in any discussion. So,just stay away from this thread until Wano arc start.
If a better candidate showed up & eliminate Carrot in the running, you can be all snarky all you want regarding Carrot.
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There's a clear gap of MIA from when Praline distract the sea slugs & them showing up this chapter. I just reread the chapter & not all the Sun Pirates were there when Praline was distracting the sea slug. Wadatsumi, in particular, was not there.
One of the Sun Pirates could have easily saved him. Within the 10 hours gap for the strawhats to arrive at Cacao Island, Aladin could have easily given him medical treatment.
Is it very coincidental? Yeah.
But it is not the first time Oda done this to justify someone not dying.
Well I guess we can both agree that Pedro living would take a massive ass-pull. My biggest problem, though, with all this is how does Pedro even fall into the water in the first place? The bomb was all around him. That's not conducive to pushing him anywhere.
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Doesn't explain the case with Big Mom.
The Candy Slug wasn't shown till Chapter 879 which was used to traverse the sea carrying Big Mom.
Nor does it explain why none of Big Mom's crew members not noticing Pedro's body.I just checked back to chapter 877. Big Mom was near the coast when Pedro blew himself so she had a solid place to stand on. I actually missed that with everything going on.
Perospero was standing right on top of Pedro when he blew himself up near the coast.
Pedro probably blew himself into the water from the impact.
With all the commotion going on, I think most of them make a fair assumption that Pedro died. They are not going to look for his body because they have better things to do like ensuring Perospero is alive & capturing the strawhats.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well I guess we can both agree that Pedro living would take a massive ass-pull. My biggest problem, though, with all this is how does Pedro even fall into the water in the first place? The bomb was on top and around him. That's not conducive to pushing him anywhere but down into the ground.
It's not the first and last time that Oda done this. Pell survived. Pagaya survived. Gedatsu survived falling from sky island. That slave pirate that bit his tongue survived. Everyone survived the deadly poison gas in Punk Hazard. Jack is super alive.
Dogra made a fair assumption that Sabo died because his ship was blown up. And then it turn out that Dragon saved him. You will be surprised how many people actually believed Sabo died that day.
I actually answered SeaofHope regarding Pedro landing in the water. Even the Thousand got blown away (not very far) by the impact.
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Thanks for the advice you guys, I've taken it to heart. Truly, I have.
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It's not the first and last time that Oda done this. Pell survived. Pagaya survived. Gedatsu survived falling from sky island. That slave pirate that bit his tongue survived. Everyone survived the deadly poison gas in Punk Hazard. Jack is super alive.
Pell & Pagaya: They could have done something off panel to lessen the full blow of the impact. Like throwing the bomb, or running out of the lightning's radius and only falling into the hole it created. Pedro didn't have the ability to do something off panel here unless he activated his everything-proof shield.
Gedatsu: The real answer is that it was a gag. But he still had a few jet dials that presumably slowed his descent.
Slave pirate: https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/7259/can-a-person-really-die-quickly-from-biting-their-tongue
G-5 marines: Poison gas can work how it wants to and take however long it wants to to kill. We know how explosions work, and we know that this one took off Perospero's arm.
Jack: The fishman thing was really clever and Oda clearly had it planned out from the beginning, so it wasn't an ass-pull. However, in this list trying to prove that Oda doesn't kill, you reminded me that while Jack didn't die, there were 5 ships worth of people with him that weren't shown to be alive.
I actually answered SeaofHope regarding Pedro landing in the water. Even the Thousand got blown away (not very far) by the impact.
Big Mom and the Sunny got blown away because the explosion was in a specific direction in relation to them. If the explosion is at your left, you move to the right. For Pedro, the explosion was all around him, so the forces would just blow him inwards. I also don't see how, given what it did to Perospero's arm, Pedro could have even survived the initial explosion long enough for him to make it to the operating table even if there was a hospital right on the coast.
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Pell & Pagaya: They could have done something off panel to lessen the full blow of the impact. Like throwing the bomb, or running out of the lightning's radius and only falling into the hole it created. Pedro didn't have the ability to do something off panel here unless he activated his everything-proof shield.
Gedatsu: The real answer is that it was a gag. But he still had a few jet dials that presumably slowed his descent.
Slave pirate: https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/7259/can-a-person-really-die-quickly-from-biting-their-tongue
G-5 marines: Poison gas can work how it wants to and take however long it wants to to kill. We know how explosions work, and we know that this one took off Perospero's arm.
Jack: The fishman thing was really clever and Oda clearly had it planned out from the beginning, so it wasn't an ass-pull. However, in this list trying to prove that Oda doesn't kill, you reminded me that while Jack didn't die, there were 5 ships worth of people with him that weren't shown to be alive.
Big Mom and the Sunny got blown away because the explosion was in a specific direction in relation to them. If the explosion is at your left, you move to the right. For Pedro, the explosion was all around him, so the forces would just blow him inwards. I also don't see how, given what it did to Perospero's arm, Pedro could have even survived the initial explosion long enough for him to make it to the operating table even if there was a hospital right on the coast.
If I'm not mistaken, Pagaya actually survived because he happen to land on one of the passing boat that was leaving Angel Island.
If you can give reasons as to why these characters survive even though there really isn't a need for them to be alive, there will also be a reason why Pedro was able to survive.
The Sun Pirates are good enough of a reason why Pedro survived. Or Pedro is just a badass that can tank an explosion & barely survive it.Heck, is Pound even dead or did he survive getting executed by Oven?
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Pekoms was doing that because of Pedro's sacrifice. Not a single person who's read the manga for more than a week thinks he's actually dead. On the other had, Pekoms' sacrifice and everyone else's (including Luffy taking Katakuri to the mirror world, Carrot's sulong gamble, etc.) would be completely undone if Pedro were still alive. His sacrifice started a chain of events that would completely fall apart if he were to suddenly appear. I can't recall a single instance of someone's "death" triggering so many other events besides Ace and Whitebeard.
He 'died' to give them breathing room for ONE CHAPTER. Not crucial for the master plan or the final escape, but just getting out of ONE situation. Out of dozens.
Pekoms just "died" to give them breathing room for ONE CHAPTER. Except no one thinks he's dead because Oda.
Pound just "died" to give them breathing room for ONE CHAPTER. Except no one thinks he's dead because Oda.
So why do they believe so strongly Pedro is dead.
He got them out of one scrape. His death was then treated IDENTICALLY to Bon Kurei's. Everyone cried, Jimbei told them to not waste the time he bought them, Luffy says something ambiguous to imply not death. The only difference is Bon had a way better speech. Two years later Bon is alive.
They then worked to get out. His "death" already served its purpose, to raise the stakes and drama for the next bunch of chapters and be emotional. No different than any of the other characters that have temporarily "died." There is no body. no credible witness, and at least a half dozen reasonable explanations for him being alive. What further purpose does it serveto keep him dead except a sad ending?
WHy are people so sure two out of three deaths are fake outs but the third one isn't?
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He 'died' to give them breathing room for ONE CHAPTER. Not crucial for the master plan or the final escape, but just getting out of ONE situation. Out of dozens.
Pekoms just "died" to give them breathing room for ONE CHAPTER. Except no one thinks he's dead because Oda.
So why do they believe so strongly Pedro is dead.
He got them out of one scrape. They then worked to get out. His "death" already served its purpose. What further purpose does it serve?
It's never been insinuated once that Pekoms died. On the other hand, every single one of the SHs has lamented Pedro's death as well as Jinbe ("This is a victory for Pedro"), Carrot, and Pekoms). They even purposefully hid it from Sanji so as not to alarm him. In some way, they've all verbally or symbolically stated that Pedro was dead. You're comparing several chapters of people stating that Pedro was dead to one chapter of Pekoms being attacked? There was even a chapter named after Pedro. Come on, Robby. :|
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It's never been insinuated once that Pekoms died.
He has been left behind, surrounded by enemies, with no way out while going berserk and no one to help him. If this was a "realistic" story we'd assume him sacrificed and dead. But it's One Piece so we don't even consider it a remote possibility for even a second. And Pound was "executed". And King Baum.
ANd no one believes they're dead.
There was even a chapter named after Pedro. Come on, Robby. :|
Chapter 99 "Luffy Died."
The chapter well Pell dies is called "Guardian Spirits." Bon's (second) death was called "Thank You." The chapter Sabo died "Sabo's Ocean." Hiriluk died in the chapter "The will that has been carried on."There's chapters titled "Mr. Iceburg" and "Rob Lucci" "King Baum" (another sacrifice death btw) "Big Mom Commander Dogtooth" "Duke Inarushi" "Master Nekomamushi". "Masira the Salvaging King" "Violet" "Lucy" "Rebecca" and none of those are death flag chapters.
And so on. Oda has character names in titles all the time, but he also plays fancy with the death titles.
Except with Ace. He was super extremely clear about that one.
"The death of Portgas D. Ace" and "The Great Pirate Edward Newgate".
"Mink Tribe- Guardian Chief Pedro" is much closer to "Member of the Strawhate Crew-Pirate Hunter Zoro" (the one where Zoro sacrificed himself to Kuma.) than one of the actual death flag chapters.
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The problem is that Perospero lost his arm. People are basically suggesting that this happened to Pedro (what happened to Pell)
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And at the same time, the person standing beside him (who was protected by a "candy armor") had his arm blown off. It doesn't make any sense.
But yeah he's probably somehow just alive. (no irony)
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He has been left behind, surrounded by enemies, with no way out while going berserk and no one to help him. If this was a "realistic" story we'd assume him sacrificed and dead. But it's One Piece so we don't even consider it a remote possibility for even a second. And Pound was "executed". And King Baum.
ANd no one believes they're dead.
Chapter 99 "Luffy Died."
The chapter well Pell dies is called "Guardian Spirits." Bon's (second) death was called "Thank You." The chapter Sabo died "Sabo's Ocean." Hiriluk died in the chapter "The will that has been carried on."There's chapters titled "Mr. Iceburg" and "Rob Lucci" "King Baum" (another sacrifice death btw) "Big Mom Commander Dogtooth" "Duke Inarushi" "Master Nekomamushi". "Masira the Salvaging King" "Violet" "Lucy" "Rebecca" and none of those are death flag chapters.
And so on. Oda has character names in titles all the time, but he also plays fancy with the death titles.
Except with Ace. He was super extremely clear about that one.
"The death of Portgas D. Ace" and "The Great Pirate Edward Newgate".
"Mink Tribe- Guardian Chief Pedro" is much closer to "Member of the Strawhate Crew-Pirate Hunter Zoro" (the one where Zoro sacrificed himself to Kuma.) than one of the actual death flag chapters.
How many of those characters "died" after achieving their dream? Pedro has already accomplished everything that he wanted to. There's nothing left for him to do. He was able to return to WCI, bear witness to the SHs (who he believes will bring about the new dawn he was looking for), and sacrifice himself in order to ensure his will was carried one (to Carrot). What other characters in this story have had the same number of conditions met when they "died?" And what benefit would he serve in returning to the story (just curious about why you think he's even necessary for the rest of the story)?
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He has been left behind, surrounded by enemies, with no way out while going berserk and no one to help him. If this was a "realistic" story we'd assume him sacrificed and dead. But it's One Piece so we don't even consider it a remote possibility for even a second. And Pound was "executed". And King Baum.
Germa 66 are still on the island. That's a way out.
Also Pound is definitely dead. There was some question at the time that the sword we see at the end of the chapter was somebody else's sword and that Pound got saved, but with subsequent chapters showing Oven to be completely fine and no mention being made of someone showing up leaves us with no way to explain how he could have survived.
There was way too much time spent on the death of this really insignificant character for that to just be a fake out. If his death influenced or motivated someone to do something then I might have bought that much time being spent on it, but nobody was there to watch it and be influenced.
Look at this:
[HIDE][/HIDE]
That's quite the hubbub for just a fake-out that doesn't affect other characters.
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I still don't understand bringing up Pekoms.
People are more willing to believe Pedro is dead because of the entirely different context leading up to his sacrifice, as well as the aftermath:
- His characterization had death flags all over the place
- He repeatedly stated his intentions, even outright foreshadowing that his sacrifice would happen after the Straw Hats completed their objectives.
- You have the surprising juxtaposition of the gruesome damage Perospero took despite having armor, forcing you to imagine how bad it must've been for Pedro in comparison.
- You have the fact that he already tried to sacrifice himself through the exact same method earlier, which casts reasonable doubt on whether Oda would do the exact same fake-out twice, when he could've just "killed" him through different means. Even arguably gets a little meta with Nami being a substitute for the reader, where we assume he recovered, only for it to actually be Perospero.
- You have his last words. Also in his flashback, he outright states being content at being able to choose where to die.
- You have several characters in this arc who keep harping on about it (as recently as a few weeks ago), with at least two of them using his sacrifice as personal motivation for their own actions.
- Roger suddenly showing up in a flashback, which IMO sounds quite odd to utilize for a fake-out, but to each their own on that one I suppose.
- Has no stated goals that go beyond this arc, meaning there's nothing that'd be clearly unresolved if he remains dead.
Yea, I get it, many are still completely 100% unconvinced for obvious reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that the context is blatantly different compared to past "deaths", to the point where I've long felt that it is more than okay to at least think "Hmm, just maybe…" without warranting immediate condescension just for even entertaining the thought. But that's just me. On a smaller note, infinitely more so than Pekoms, it's become increasingly harder to picture how he'd show up in the Straw Hats' vicinity without access to the Mirror World since Brulee is no longer in play. The only thing I'll say is that despite the implausibility of it all, at least he now presumably has an actual reason to show up, which would be to tame Pekoms should he complete his transformation. It's at least better than what I originally thought would happen, where he just shows up and that's that.
As for Pekoms, he tries to do something similar with practically no build-up, and noticeably fails miserably. And as Avocado stated earlier, they explicitly stated the intention to blind him in order to stop his Sulong transformation, rather than to kill him. So why on earth would anyone fear for his life exactly? The BM Pirates have bigger issues as well between the Germa and the Straw Hats (and now Sun Pirates), with the former easily being capable of indirectly saving him from any serious injury due to their surprise attack. Between those details, the (surprising) nonchalance Sanji had over leaving him behind, the fact that he is still a member of their crew (Tamago in particular once expressed a desire to help lessen his punishment earlier this arc, could still apply even after all of this perhaps), and Germa stealing his thunder in the same chapter... Yea, not surprising that no one thinks he's dead, as he has far more options, and his respective panel was never framed as if he was about to die/has died like Pound and Pedro were. And on a smaller note, there's also the possibility that Oda just wants him to mimic Pedro's appearance where he only has one eye, for thematic purposes.
As for stuff like him currently having no means of escape (Well, Germa could always indirectly save him), along with the Straw Hats weirdly leaving him behind (Admittedly Pekoms left out the detail of Sulong being able to kill him, plus Luffy was asleep at the time), the only impression that really leaves on me is that he pretty much lost his chance to tag along with the Straw Hats, as Sanji backtracking to Cacao Island would feel quite forced when he could've simply carried him to begin with, even more so now that he's clashing with Daifuku and on the verge of finally escaping. So I dunno, unless Germa suddenly feels like tossing him onto the Sunny or something, it's hard to picture. It's not impossible for him to leave with the Straw Hats, but he's running out of options. That said, regardless of whatever happens with him, I continue to not take it as a given that he will die if he's truly left behind with the BM Pirates.
Whereas Pound is concerned, admittedly he has even less theories going for him than Pedro does. I guess he could've just tanked it. Oven could've backed out at the last second, but doesn't really explain the blood since Oven turned out to be perfectly fine. But anyways, it's understandable to feel far more comfortable about him being alive because he has a clear unfulfilled goal, which is to finally meet his daughters. For Oda to have him fail at said goal (Pedro in comparison met his stated conditions), especially when Lola's not even here, seems quite uncharacteristic of Oda. But even more than that, his death doesn't really give any value to anyone. We can argue all day as to just how far the development will go, but Pedro's sacrifice clearly had and will continue to have an effect on several characters, namely Carrot and Pekoms. Pound on the other hand, his whole tragedy is that no one gives a shit about him, and the only non-antagonistic people that know his identity have no idea what he's been up to, much less that his life was in danger. And of course, Chiffon and Bege have no idea who he is, nor would they know that he died. Only Pez would... kind of. So it'd only be a poigant moment for the readers, as opposed to something that could further develop the characters affliated with him. As a result, it's much easier to see Oda keeping him alive with all of that in mind, even I currently can't make any sense as to how it would happen. Also there's the possibility of him being actual royalty, or at least, the question as to why Big Mom even chose him as a husband.
On another note, Pound is actually more what I'm used to in terms of ambiguous deaths in this series. I look at characters like Paguya, Pound, Monet, etc., and one thing they all had in common was that they were suddenly "killed" off. There was no real build-up to it like Pedro got, where you could easily predict that they'd be "killed" off at some point within their respective arcs. Neither were they mourned for/referenced, if at all, anywhere near the amount of times that Pedro has been. Even Mr. 2 only had Luffy dwell on it for a single chapter, but even then he angrily asks why Buggy is so sure that he's dead to begin with. (In hindsight, more people should've saw that coming, not to mention Ace served the same purpose tenfold anyhow) It's that build-up, among other reasons, that has people doubting themselves despite being familiar with how Oda usually works. If he's alive, whatever, it's One Piece, but thinking he's actually dead isn't being done on some mere whim.
Don't get me wrong, despite typing all of that, I actually have no intention of debating this whole Pedro thing all over again, as that has been argued to death. Just my final thoughts if anything. We'll know soon enough anyways I imagine, maybe even next week if we're lucky. I'm just weirded out that some are framing Pekoms' situation as if it's the exact same thing, when he hasn't even gotten an ambiguous death to begin with.
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Great post, I disagree with you about Pound though. See my comment above yours.
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Just my final thoughts if anything. We'll know soon enough anyways I imagine, maybe even next week if we're lucky. I'm just weirded out that some are framing Pekoms' situation as if it's the exact same thing, when he hasn't even gotten an ambiguous death to begin with.
Great post, thoroughly enjoyed reading that. You raise some valid points.
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(just curious about why you think he's even necessary for the rest of the story)?
He's not. I would prefer he were dead so the series could have some stakes again. I'd prefer if Monet was dead too but she'll be fine whenever we get to the Dresserossa villain cover story, and I'd be sad if Bon Kurei was actually dead.
But Oda refuses to do unhappy endings where characters stay dead and sacrificed. If falling unconscious and leaving everyone else behind for a few hours or days serves the same purpose storywise, then that's what Oda will do. Every time.
Everyone points to Pell as the crazy survivor in Alabasta, but don't forget Igaram was dead for a long time too, 70 or 80 chapters, mourned by Vivi, and even showcased and fleshed out in flashbacks after his death. He was still fine once that served it's purpose.
So why is he necessary for the rest of the story? So his friends and family won't be sad. That's Oda's way.
His characterization had death flags all over the place
He repeatedly stated his intentions, even outright foreshadowing that his sacrifice would happen after the Straw Hats completed their objectives.
You have the surprising juxtaposition of the gruesome damage Perospero took despite having armor, forcing you to imagine how bad it must've been for Pedro in comparison.
You have the fact that he already tried to sacrifice himself through the exact same method earlier, which casts reasonable doubt on whether Oda would do the exact same fake-out twice, when he could've just "killed" him through different means. Even arguably gets a little meta with Nami being a substitute for the reader, where we assume he recovered, only for it to actually be Perospero.
You have his last words. Also in his flashback, he outright states being content at being able to choose where to die.
You have several characters in this arc who keep harping on about it (as recently as a few weeks ago), with at least two of them using his sacrifice as personal motivation for their own actions.
Roger suddenly showing up in a flashback, which IMO sounds quite odd to utilize for a fake-out, but to each their own on that one I suppose.
Has no stated goals that go beyond this arc, meaning there's nothing that'd be clearly unresolved if he remains dead.… I was going to break up all of that with the same response every time, but basically, those all apply to Pell.
He totally was happy to sacrifice himself for the kingdom, death flags all over the place, his statue even cracked, he took a bomb to the face that would have levelled a city. He had flashbacks with Vivi and had been with her since childhood, had nothing left to really live for. People were sad about it. The arc ended with him dead.
But hey, he landed next to a doctor and after all that... He has a scar on his chest.
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Everyone points to Pell as the crazy survivor in Alabasta, but don't forget Igaram was dead for a long time, mourned by Vivi, and even showcased in flashbacks after his death. He was still fine once that served it's purpose.
That was a twist though, not an ass-pull. Robin was undermining Crocodile the whole time
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Carrot was able to wake up luffy a few minutes after he went sleeping exhausted from an extremely long fight. That’s not being just here. It’s a huge accomplishment non of the strawhat were able to do yet.
Read that same scene and have in mind that Luffy had lied to the crew before about his situation. I did not read it as Carrot waking him up, but him doing so to keep up his lie. The first thing out of his mouth was: "i was waiting".
Also, I doubt Nami can sense storms in her sleep.
If Carrot could see when she sleeps you would have a point. Why is this even an argument? Not to mention, I bet Nami would wake up because of an incoming storm. Everything in the series points to that.
It's not about being the only one capable. It's about having that special capability for it. Nami can cook but doesn't do it all the time. Franky has done most of the steering up to now. People take turns as lookout. But when new crewmates who specialize in those skills show up, it makes their lives easier. Usopp didn't habe to keep making makeshift repairs once Franky came aboard, he could concentrate on his own projects like the new weapons for himself and Nami.
And those jobs can still be filled in by others as needed: Franky can still steer if Jinbe's needed elsewhere, and more than one person can help out as extra lookouts. Just because Carrot would be the most capale doesn't mean she couldn't use help sometimes like with any other job.
And we are asking how does Carrot have that special capability? I already conceded that the cycle of night and day is a good reason in terms of being a lookout on a ship.
Jumping, not so much.
- Carrot is not going to be continuously jumping to gain height advantage as they travel at sea.
- Jumping higher may improve how far you can see, but does not improve how detailed your expanded view is.
- Is it really special if jumping high gives you a 2-5 second gain on how fast you get to the crow's nest?
If Carrot had deflected the canon ball and from kicking it getting to the crow's nest to alert of both enemies from behind and from the front. If the Minks had a trait that dealt with vision like the three eyed tribe, to complement their jumping the same way Jimbe being a Fishman helps him understand currents and applies that to being impossible to reach when he is in deep waters. I saw someone saying that Jimbe "failed" at his job because Smoothie had caught up. It is the other way around, if Smoothie could not catch up to Jimbe within shallow water (near an island) territory, then her incompetence would be even worse. [Currents travel faster in deep water than in shallow water, Jimbe takes advantage of these currents, which in the Grandline are stronger than in our world to speed ahead of everyone.]
But her being able to quickly get to the crow's nest did not help in avoiding the canon fire.
How many of those characters "died" after achieving their dream?
In my view, Pedro's dream is to see the dawn. It was Pedro's circumstances, mainly the lose of his lifespan (which we still do not know if it is possible to recover), that gave Pedro a sense of fatalist urgency, not knowing if tomorrow was his last made him believe that he would not be able to see the dawn anymore, so instead he was just content to help in the transitioning.
Pedro has already accomplished everything that he wanted to. There's nothing left for him to do. He was able to return to WCI, bear witness to the SHs (who he believes will bring about the new dawn he was looking for), and sacrifice himself in order to ensure his will was carried one (to Carrot). What other characters in this story have had the same number of conditions met when they "died?" And what benefit would he serve in returning to the story (just curious about why you think he's even necessary for the rest of the story)?
It is not much about benefit to the story per se. It is more about Oda putting the question forward for a character as you have described in: what does he do, if he survives?
Hawkins told Brownbeard that he was going to die in a fancy way:
[hide][/hide]
But then Brownbeard is alive and plays a role in Punk Hazard. Why would Pedro, one of the few characters that share Robin's dream, be treated worse than Brownbeard? Brownie surviving a shot to face against the Yeti Cool brothers (which pistols are basically canons).
Another misconception is that the bombs were not strapped on his chest, they were by his ribs.
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If we want to talk about "realism". Then why did Peros arm go missing? Would it not make more sense for his legs to have gone, being closer to the core of the explosion? Why the arm? Peros is stepping on Pedro. I think this can be explained if Peros in an attempt to minimize the damage, covered his arm in candy and covered the bombs with it. But if he did that, then Pedro, that did not have the bombs by his chest, would have also received wounds less severe.
Then there is the latest chapter, where only now after hours of chasing and using his powers post arm loss, Peros is fainting. If Pedro was left behind and he stayed inactive, then emphasizing this now, might be a time check on how long Pedro could stay alive without receiving medical attention. Luckily both Stussy and Morgans still have a chance to pick him up. After that though, I would believe Oda is cutting out too many options for it to be natural for him to survive.
I agree, Pedro's death would be a meaningful way to add consequence moving forward. To add tension. It open ups many possibilities for the future, mainly because there is no reason for Pedro to be the first and last one to die. Wano would turn into a death poll. Where every cut puts you in the list.
On the topic of: "Why did Luffy care for Carrot before another Straw Hat"
Does this even take into consideration whom Carrot is to Luffy? A friend that is helping him get back one of his crewmates? Does this even take into consideration whom Luffy is? I could not find a translation in manga, but the anime has it. Luffy saved Pound and says he became attached to him by virtue of running into him " a dozen times"
That was a stranger, but now he has to have a systematic way on how he expresses concern for his friends?
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No one has ever been so close to Luffy as Carrot was this chapter.
Bon bonded with the crew and danced with them, saved them in Alabasta in the name of friendship, then later dragged a poisoned Luffy through the snow with the last of his strength, fought off an army of wolved, and then stayed up the entire night screaming till his throat went dead to encourage Luffy, and then went and sacrificed himself for Luffy AGAIN.
His design is unique in the unusual eyes, makeup design, the earmuffs, the bowl haircut, the cleft chin, the swans on his back, being an Okama, and he has a genuinely unique fruit that is useful but not broken.
Still not a strawhat.
(And when the anime got to him he impressed Oda so much he insisted that Franky get the same voice actor. So there is that.)
And then there's this guy.
The only one to see Luffy reunite with his brother. Introduced in an unusual way with him peeing during a tournament fight and flipping off the audience.
Tag teamed with Robin. Unique design with fangs, nose ring,eye stripes, crazy hair style and color, a unique useful but not broken ability, who has followed the Strawhat adventures since the start and so hasn't missed out on any of their adventures, and was instrumental in reuniting the crew.
Still not a strawhat.
And so on.
A character can be important, have a lot of screen time and chemistry and still not be part of the crew.
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@K.:
On the topic of: "Why did Luffy care for Carrot before another Straw Hat"
Does this even take into consideration whom Carrot is to Luffy? A friend that is helping him get back one of his crewmates? Does this even take into consideration whom Luffy is? I could not find a translation in manga, but the anime has it. Luffy saved Pound and says he became attached to him by virtue of running into him " a dozen times"
That was a stranger, but now he has to have a systematic way on how he expresses concern for his friends?
Luffy definitely protects his friends or just people he likes. But there's no way that, if he had to make a split-second decision, he'd protect his random friends over his crew. He'd try to protect both, but he'd care about his crew first and foremost in all instances (except maybe for family).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
No one has ever been so close to Luffy as Carrot was this chapter.
https://78.media.tumblr.com/1492b62b574a01890817f31d684b7b3b/tumblr_msrh6rlLXL1shkpgfo1_500.gif
That's missing some cheek rubbing and ear biting.
Though Sweetpea has been closer.
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His characterization had death flags all over the place
He repeatedly stated his intentions, even outright foreshadowing that his sacrifice would happen after the Straw Hats completed their objectives.
You have the surprising juxtaposition of the gruesome damage Perospero took despite having armor, forcing you to imagine how bad it must've been for Pedro in comparison.
You have the fact that he already tried to sacrifice himself through the exact same method earlier, which casts reasonable doubt on whether Oda would do the exact same fake-out twice, when he could've just "killed" him through different means. Even arguably gets a little meta with Nami being a substitute for the reader, where we assume he recovered, only for it to actually be Perospero.
You have his last words. Also in his flashback, he outright states being content at being able to choose where to die.
You have several characters in this arc who keep harping on about it (as recently as a few weeks ago), with at least two of them using his sacrifice as personal motivation for their own actions.
Roger suddenly showing up in a flashback, which IMO sounds quite odd to utilize for a fake-out, but to each their own on that one I suppose.Which as I stated above is a great way to end this Pedro's story arc. What new character arcs can a person this determined to lay down his life for a cause have if his plan succeeded beyond his expectations. He helped the crew and survived. Does he just die in peace? Does he believe that if he survived then his plight still goes on? How does he react to getting help? Would he deny it as he had already achieved what he wanted, or would he accept it?
Has no stated goals that go beyond this arc, meaning there's nothing that'd be clearly unresolved if he remains dead.
The dawn would be his stated goal outside the arc. His circumstances led him to believe it was time to pass on that will, if he ends up alive, what does Pedro do as a character? That is the type of questions I imagine Oda puts forward when dealing with these situations.
Also, a couple of weeks back Pekoms "had no reason to betray the Big Mom pirates" but he ended up helping Luffy, these things can change.
As for Pekoms, he tries to do something similar with practically no build-up, and noticeably fails miserably. And as Avocado stated earlier, they explicitly stated the intention to blind him in order to stop his Sulong transformation, rather than to kill him. So why on earth would anyone fear for his life exactly?
Because of this conversation between Peros and Napoleon:
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Pekoms is a traitor, in my opinion a form of heinous criminal.
The BM Pirates have bigger issues as well between the Germa and the Straw Hats (and now Sun Pirates), with the former easily being capable of indirectly saving him from any serious injury due to their surprise attack.
Right now, yes, but once the Straw Hats escape, if Pekoms is still captured, there is plenty of time to punish him in some form of petty vengeance against the SH.
Between those details, the (surprising) nonchalance Sanji had over leaving him behind, the fact that he is still a member of their crew (Tamago in particular once expressed a desire to help lessen his punishment earlier this arc, could still apply even after all of this perhaps), and Germa stealing his thunder in the same chapter… Yea, not surprising that no one thinks he's dead, as he has far more options, and his respective panel was never framed as if he was about to die/has died like Pound and Pedro were. And on a smaller note, there's also the possibility that Oda just wants him to mimic Pedro's appearance where he only has one eye, for thematic purposes.
I am not sure why the emotionless soldiers would help out Pekoms fully, instead of Pekoms being lucky that the collateral gave him a chance to escape. If Pekoms loses one eye then I ship Pedro to his grave a lot easier. Maybe even completely, even if I think Oda should have done a better job at building it up.
As for stuff like him currently having no means of escape (Well, Germa could always indirectly save him), along with the Straw Hats weirdly leaving him behind (Admittedly Pekoms left out the detail of Sulong being able to kill him, plus Luffy was asleep at the time), the only impression that really leaves on me is that he pretty much lost his chance to tag along with the Straw Hats, as Sanji backtracking to Cacao Island would feel quite forced when he could've simply carried him to begin with, even more so now that he's clashing with Daifuku and on the verge of finally escaping. So I dunno, unless Germa suddenly feels like tossing him onto the Sunny or something, it's hard to picture. It's not impossible for him to leave with the Straw Hats, but he's running out of options. That said, regardless of whatever happens with him, I continue to not take it as a given that he will die if he's truly left behind with the BM Pirates.
The Nox pirates that Pekoms led to safety are in Cacao Island, I like to think that they would help him out. If they are witnessing the events.
Whereas Pound is concerned…
Pretty much all true, Pound if anyone is the one that deserves a happy ending.
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About Bon-chan
Why did you have to destroy my dreams again 3:
Luffy definitely protects his friends or just people he likes. But there's no way that, if he had to make a split-second decision, he'd protect his random friends over his crew. He'd try to protect both, but he'd care about his crew first and foremost in all instances (except maybe for family).
For someone that supports Carrot so vividly, it is completely strange how you put her in "the random friends" = Pound category.
And this wasn't about Luffy protecting Carrot before anyone, literally the argument was: "he called her name before this/these one/two". You are still saying that in a moment of tension, Luffy should have a systematic way of expressing concern, that is first his crew, then his friends, then people he ran into a couple of times asking him for juice, random citizens that are in pain. Luffy cares for people, he hasn't trained himself to make sure his crew is safe first.
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@K.:
For someone that supports Carrot so vividly, it is completely strange how you put her in "the random friends" = Pound category.
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I'm not… My argument is that Luffy doesn't treat her like a non-crewmate friend.And this wasn't about Luffy protecting Carrot before anyone, literally the argument was: "he called her name before this/these one/two". You are still saying that in a moment of tension, Luffy should have a systematic way of expressing concern, that is first his crew, then his friends, then people he ran into a couple of times asking him for juice, random citizens that are in pain. Luffy cares for people, he hasn't trained himself to make sure his crew is safe first.
Bullshit. He might not make rational decisions, or be able to prioritize long-term danger over short-term danger, but if Rebeca and Usopp are about to get killed, and he only has time to save one of them, 100% of the time he'll save Usopp. Now that's a pretty extreme example, but that also translates to how worried he'll be for people.
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? I'm not… My argument is that Luffy doesn't treat her like a non-crewmate friend.
This is a classification only you are making. Luffy does not have subdivisions of friendships.
Luffy definitely protects his friends or just people he likes. But there's no way that, if he had to make a split-second decision, he'd protect his random friends over his crew. He'd try to protect both, but he'd care about his crew first and foremost in all instances (except maybe for family).
I am not going to go dig up how your premise is that Luffy showing concern about Carrot before Chopper elevates her within Luffy's categories of friendship he does not have in the first place.
Bullshit. He might not make rational decisions, or be able to prioritize long-term danger over short-term danger, but if Rebeca and Usopp are about to get killed, and he only has time to save one of them, 100% of the time he'll save Usopp. Now that's a pretty extreme example, but that also translates to how worried he'll be for people.
By now, he would just trust Usopp to deal with the situation. He has already stated his faith in them:
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Luffy would try to save both. That is his whole deal.
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I suppose it doesn’t change anything for those who don’t want it to, but the fact that Perospero was shown in a bad state due to his wounds left untreated kinda hints even more Pedro’s death.
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I suppose it doesn’t change anything for those who don’t want it to, but the fact that Perospero was shown in a bad state due to his wounds left untreated kinda hints even more Pedro’s death.
or maybe pedro got exploded right into aladdins arms who was already ready to do surgery, had an underwater breathing apparatus and knew the kind of blood pedro needed to replace all in the same time.Big mom's magic revival make so much more sense but since it looks like they're escaping I just dont k ow about him anymore
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I suppose it doesn’t change anything for those who don’t want it to, but the fact that Perospero was shown in a bad state due to his wounds left untreated kinda hints even more Pedro’s death.
Or it shows that there's a giant 12 hour window for someone to get to him and deal with said injuries before they start to actually be a real hindrance.
ANd again, if Pell is any indication to go from, he only got a chest scar rather than a lost limb.
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Pell survived because he can dive at 200mph like the peregrine falcon :ninja:
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It's the eve of Chapter 900 and people still refuse to accept that Oda has a certain way of doing things even when it's staring them right in the goddamn face.
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Well I guess we can both agree that Pedro living would take a massive ass-pull. My biggest problem, though, with all this is how does Pedro even fall into the water in the first place? The bomb was all around him. That's not conducive to pushing him anywhere.
If BM faints, the years she took from Pedro could regenerate his body the same way it happened to Zoro, Sanji, Robin and Lola at the end of Thriller Bark when their shadows returned.
Also if Pedro is really dead then Sanji would have to bear that responsibility forever. While if something like the regeneration thing happened, he could even end up looking like his saviour.
But considering the past fake deaths, i don't know if there really needs to be a logical explaination lol. -
@Cyan:
It's the eve of Chapter 900 and people still refuse to accept that Oda has a certain way of doing things even when it's staring them right in the goddamn face.
Some times we hang our hat too much on his patterns, only to be surprised or perhaps even upset when he brakes them.
I don't think Ive ever seen a character receive so much remorse and reflection that was still alive. Guess we'll see once and for all when they ditch Totland for good.
Although I suspect he'll just naturally fall into the Monet and Vergo category for most of the people arguing he's still alive , people will claim he'll show up in some side cover story….Anyday now.
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Or it shows that there's a giant 12 hour window for someone to get to him and deal with said injuries before they start to actually be a real hindrance.
ANd again, if Pell is any indication to go from, he only got a chest scar rather than a lost limb.
I think you count in the people who don’t want it to
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If BM faints, the years she took from Pedro could regenerate his body the same way it happened to Zoro, Sanji, Robin and Lola at the end of Thriller Bark when their shadows returned.
Also if Pedro is really dead then Sanji would have to bear that responsibility forever. While if something like the regeneration thing happened, he could even end up looking like his saviour.
But considering the past fake deaths, i don't know if there really needs to be a logical explaination lol.If big mum fainting gives years back it means that Nami loses Zeus which is very unlikely
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If big mum fainting gives years back it means that Nami loses Zeus which is very unlikely
Right, forgot about that. He could be different because he has Mama's soul, but that sounds cheap.
There could be another way, like willingly give the years back. I'm still waiting for Moscato to come back alive -
@Cyan:
It's the eve of Chapter 900 and people still refuse to accept that Oda has a certain way of doing things even when it's staring them right in the goddamn face.
Careful, they don't take kindly to snark here.
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I suppose it doesn’t change anything for those who don’t want it to, but the fact that Perospero was shown in a bad state due to his wounds left untreated kinda hints even more Pedro’s death.
Perospero lost a limb, and is shown in a bad state because Oda knows he can't keep fooling us just like that. He knows that we know that he never killed anyone important. Which is why he needs new ways to lure us, like "stabbing a heart" or "bombing a guy and making the guy beside him lose a limb".
The question isn't really if they're alive or not. But how and when will they be back.
Probably after Kaido's defeat imo. -
If BM faints, the years she took from Pedro could regenerate his body the same way it happened to Zoro, Sanji, Robin and Lola at the end of Thriller Bark when their shadows returned.
And that's assuming he will bother with an explanation. Normally he only makes the character survives and completely skip giving any reason for that.
But since we also need to get Moscato and Opera back, the release of life span is the most likely. As for Zeus, maybe the homies created by BM's own soul could remain even after the others are dispersed.
Still, I would love if Pedro was really dead, and for reasons completely unrelated to Carrot (it just sucks the fact the threat of death is non-existent in a manga that keeps trying to make us believe characters died). I just don't believe it is going to happen.
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@Cyan:
It's the eve of Chapter 900 and people still refuse to accept that Oda has a certain way of doing things even when it's staring them right in the goddamn face.
Nearly 900 chapters, and even Greg of all people admitted that he's unsure lol
Sorry, I'm typically just not the type of person to immediately write something off, not without considering all the options anyways.
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@.access:
And that's assuming he will bother with an explanation. Normally he only makes the character survives and completely skip giving any reason for that.
But since we also need to get Moscato and Opera back, the release of life span is the most likely. As for Zeus, maybe the homies created by BM's own soul could remain even after the others are dispersed.
Still, I would love if Pedro was really dead, and for reasons completely unrelated to Carrot (it just sucks the fact the threat of death is non-existent in a manga that keeps trying to make us believe characters died). I just don't believe it is going to happen.
Among all the sacrifices pell was the only one that he both didn't bother to explain and there wasn't a sensible enough explanation right there. I don't think he'll pull that again where we just don't get an explanation and I think the pell thing was like that because he wasn't as sure about bringing him back so he didn't come up with an explanation
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@Long:
Among all the sacrifices pell was the only one that he both didn't bother to explain and there wasn't a sensible enough explanation right there. I don't think he'll pull that again where we just don't get an explanation and I think the pell thing was like that because he wasn't as sure about bringing him back so he didn't come up with an explanation
Well, we really didn't get one for how Bentham escaped Magellan either. He just showed up later in the cover story. Which means that Pound is certainly still alive, even if all logic points to the opposite.
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I never counted Bentham as one of those fake deaths. Even though Magellan said he was going to kill him, I always read that as just empty threats people do all the time before a fight. He was a just prison warden, Bentham was a prisoner, logically Magellan would just beat him to submission and lock him down again.
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Pell actually died in the explosion. What we are seeing is just Vivi's mental images, because she refuses to admit to his death.
Pagaya was revived as a gag
Still unsure about Pedro. If we had the confirmed survival of Monet and Vergo I would be more assured he was going to live. As it stands… We'll have to wait and see lol -
@.access:
I never counted Bentham as one of those fake deaths. Even though Magellan said he was going to kill him, I always read that as just empty threats people do all the time before a fight. He was a just prison warden, Bentham was a prisoner, logically Magellan would just beat him to submission and lock him down again.
Only that Magellan had the right and authority to immediately execute any prisoner as he seemed fit, which he previously showcased when Hancock talked to Ace, so with that context, the message was supposed to be that Bentham is in danger.
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Pedro is a cat he has nine lives. Also Chopper died ages ago when they ate him, he's just an apparation now which is why he's so irrelevant.
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@Cyan:
It's the eve of Chapter 900 and people still refuse to accept that Oda has a certain way of doing things even when it's staring them right in the goddamn face.
In almost 900 chapters, there has never been a scenario that has matched the one that we're seeing with Pedro. This isn't about a fake out death, it's about all of the subtle context that has gone into this one (and it's overall impact on other characters and the arc itself). To be honest, if the SHs and their accomplices can invade an emperor's territory and come out relatively unscathed, it's going to be pointless for Oda to ever attempt something like this again (Wano).