Do their clone soldiers count as human beings?
Chapter 898: We'll definitely return
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Snack has only mentioned Germa so far so I assume that's his target and where he is heading, while Smoothie and Daifuku are focused on Luffy
Oh yea, just saw the text for the official translation, and it clarifies that Smoothie also gave out the order to the ships surrounding Cacao Island to focus on the Straw Hats, which would of course include Snack:
"Don't get distracted by the Germa Fleet!! We're only following the Straw Hats' ship!! Tell that to all the ships surrounding the island too!!"
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Do their clone soldiers count as human beings?
Well, they either consider them human beings and treat them as cattle, or they consider them cattle even though they look like humans.
Not sure which is worse.
Sure, bros may have some justification because they are engineered to lack empathy, but Judge should be beyond any redemption.
Then again, Oda gave even CC a positive spin.
Forgot about Reiju. She doesn't like what's going on, so it's all cool.
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Pirates being heroes, heroes being pirates.
Government being corrupt, government being righteous.
Kingdoms doing bad deeds, kingdoms doing good deeds.Who's good and whos' bad??
Strength is justiceFirst supporter of Doflamingo helping Luffy at the GWE.
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@Miss:
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Defending their insults? "It's okay, they're good now because their insults are slightly less mean."
At least they're not threatening to blow up Sanji's hands or beating up a maid just to taunt him anymore.. so, y'know.. Vinsmokes 4 Nakama!what are baby steps
Literally no one claiming nakam8 here
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Is there a break this week ?
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Is there a break this week ?
Nope. A break will always be indicated at the end of the last chapter, unless there's a double issue in Weekly Shonen Jump.
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This post is deleted!
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@uniaka:
Thing is, even if SHs are good to go out of here, their allies who sacrificed so they can escape have to escape too, like capone pirates, germa, pekoms and pedro, forgot someone? Oh yeah, pound and fishman pirates. And it does fee lwierd if after all they did to protect them, Straw hats will be like '' whatever, we don't care, good thing WE got out''.
They need something big to escape too, this arc can't end with them on mr 2 like scenario, like maybe stussy called the marines and they close to totland so that is the thing that will allow them to escape? marines fighting the BM pirates.
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Dealing with Big Mom through the cake would presumably save Bege's crew, as everyone else is focusing on the Straw Hats. We'll see what happens with Perospero and co. though. Though why they should really go that far? After the bomb blew up the chateau, one of the first things Bege did was express that they would now go their separate ways. The same should apply after Sanji handed off the cake to them.
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I don't know what to tell you about Pekoms. My opinion is that Sanji should've taken him along with Luffy if Oda intends on having him tag along with the Straw Hats.
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Germa is currently having the time of their life with the surprise attack they pulled on Cacao Island. I don't see Snack intervening and singlehandledly turning the tides or anything like that. Although to my knowledge, both him, Smoothie, etc. should all be focused on the Straw Hats based on Smoothie's words this chapter. The Vinsmokes nearly made it explicit that they want Sanji to focus on escaping, and to not bother worrying about them. This isn't the same context as earlier back at the wedding, where they were running into a trap that would've guaranteed their deaths had Sanji not intervened. We can't babysit these guys forever, especially not when it was their choice to come here. I will admit that I don't know exactly when they'll decide it's time to leave, but I don't see the Straw Hats in particular coming back for them.
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Pedro is presumed by literally everyone to be dead, so the only way they'd go back for him is if he's alive, followed by the Straw Hats finding out that he's alive. He would be the only potential exception I suppose.
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As for Pound, no one even knows that he (might have) died to begin with. Not that Sanji even knew he was to begin with, nor did Chiffon. The only ones that do know his identity, namely Nami, have no idea about his actions on Cacao Island, so they have no reason to go back for him either.
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As for the Sun Pirates, they were pretty much the first group to leave. Oda can easily have it be a scenario where they left/are leaving Big Mom's territory after Prauline disabled the sea slugs. Even more so than the Vinsmokes, no one is even focusing them, they're nearly all focused on making sure the Straw Hats do not escape.
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And it's not like the Straw Hats don't care or anything. In the same chapter where the sea slugs were disabled, you had Jinbe wonder if the Sun Pirates were okay. Realistically, I just don't see them going out of their way to check on each group, nor do I see a scenario where the arc concludes with group sailing side by side out of BM's territory, or something along those lines. Especially for the Germa 66 in particular due to this latest chapter. I can't say with 100% certainty how it'll go for each group, but from what I'm seeing, the Straw Hats are more than free to just leave.
The only thing I got no idea about is Caesar, though it goes without saying that they don't give a shit about him, so he'd have to beg to leave with them if anything.
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Ichiji: "Take that wounded fellow and get off the island, Sanji. You're only holding us back here!!" Niji: "So long, failure!!!"
Yeah,with the official translation I don't feel like anything is resolved between Sanji and his family. Judge from the tea party, Ichiji, and Niji's last words to him are still just insults and looking down on him. Can't see this arc ending in chapter 900 otherwise it feels like Sanji lost to his family rather than the other way around. Goes so far to save them risking his own crew, still gets treated like trash, and upstaged by them in feats and strength. Not a good ending for Sanji that's for sure. So I see Sanji heading back, Pekoms and Pudding could be in danger or he learns of Pedros death, vinsmokes may get overpowered by Snack/Smoothie.
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I don't even care how the Germa drama is resolved. I just want 100% confirmation that the Big Mom Pirates won't go after Zeff (and any other Strawhat family) once this is over.
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I don't even care how the Germa drama is resolved. I just want 100% confirmation that the Big Mom Pirates won't go after Zeff (and any other Strawhat family) once this is over.
Honestly, I want them to go after Zeff. I'd hate if after all that's been done, they back out of their threat and promise to go kill Zeff. It would completely erase the threat of a yonkou in my eyes, no reason to fear them anymore.
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They never promised to go after Zeff though? While they do have their whole thing of forcing people to attend her tea parties, the specific threat against Zeff was made by Judge if I'm not mistaken.
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They never promised to go after Zeff though? While they do have their whole thing of forcing people to attend her tea parties, the specific threat against Zeff was made by Judge if I'm not mistaken.
You're right, but the BMP have the resources, knowledge, and mentality to do something like that. If Big Mom would blackmail someone just to attend a party, she's do the same thing to people that she hates.
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Well it's not like Sanji is the one who fucked things up. He's done his part of the deal.
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They never promised to go after Zeff though? While they do have their whole thing of forcing people to attend her tea parties, the specific threat against Zeff was made by Judge if I'm not mistaken.
Big Mom sends heads for everyone that pisses her long before she knew Judge. Like for that Jigra guy and all he did was not show up at the tea party. Big mom crewmember Tamago was the one that handed Zeffs picture and the handcuff bombs to Judge, implying they are the ones like Pekoms said that have intel all over the world and probably have people in East Blue right now. So after all the stuff the strawhats did, surely they would send a head.
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Well it's not like Sanji is the one who fucked things up. He's done his part of the deal.
Well she told him not to cause trouble at her tea party which he technically did (granted she betrayed him first but she's not one to care). But even if she didn't blame him, once she eats the cake, she's going to want him join her crew, and if he doesn't then well we are back to Zeffs head.
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Honestly, I want them to go after Zeff. I'd hate if after all that's been done, they back out of their threat and promise to go kill Zeff. It would completely erase the threat of a yonkou in my eyes, no reason to fear them anymore.
I never even considered that, but that works too. I just don't want Oda to forget the conflict that this entire arc began with.
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Well she told him not to cause trouble at her tea party which he technically did (granted she betrayed him first but she's not one to care). But even if she didn't blame him, once she eats the cake, she's going to want him join her crew, and if he doesn't then well we are back to Zeffs head.
Well, it's either that, or she and her family will be too busy fighting the hyenas coming from all directions.
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And if there is meant to be a second big mom arc in Elbaf, having a grudge due to Zeffs death for Sanji, Pedros/Pounds/Pekoms death for the strawhats gives some more purpose for the 2nd arc.
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Well, it's either that, or she and her family will be too busy fighting the hyenas coming from all directions.
Possible. But admirals and CP0 may be busy with the reverie, while Kaido is busy with the wano alliance. Shanks is partying. So she kind of gets a break and chance to recover. But ofcourse if she has assassins in East Blue, that's just a simple call without using any resources and could probably be done before Morgan even publishes his paper.
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That's been bothering me as well. After the emphasis on armor-piercing bullets, Reiju getting wounded and so on, it's like Oda completely forgot he even wrote that or chose to ignore it altogether for bonus hype in the battle sequence
It's just a mess up on Oda. I can imagine most of his kids here trying to damage control but too bad. It's a simple mistake that's all.
Also, the year of Sanji? Dude was getting HAWKED by a bazooka and got saved by the people he despises!! lolollolool
Fans better watch out calling Wano "the year of Zoro!" Zoro will be captured and become a sword making slave for the shogun.
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Possible. But admirals and CP0 may be busy with the reverie, while Kaido is busy with the wano alliance. Shanks is partying. So she kind of gets a break and chance to recover. But ofcourse if she has assassins in East Blue, that's just a simple call without using any resources and could probably be done before Morgan even publishes his paper.
There are tons of other crews that could try to chip away at Charlotte family. Maybe not enough to cause serious damage, but enough to draw her attention.
Not to mention there's one more important certain crew you didn't mention. A crew of vile opportunists.
Fans better watch out calling Wano "the year of Zoro!" Zoro will be captured and become a sword making slave for the shogun.
LMAO
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You're right, but the BMP have the resources, knowledge, and mentality to do something like that. If Big Mom would blackmail someone just to attend a party, she's do the same thing to people that she hates.
I'm just saying, there's a clear out here if it was Judge that gave the order. Hell, there's several outs, like the fact that Stussy framed the Straw Hats regarding the bomb, which could easily have her focus on Fishman Island first if anything, a place she already has beef with. Or between them needing to recuperate and what not, maybe the timeframe for the Straw Hats running into the BM Pirates won't be as long as people think it'll be, negating the need to assassinate someone.
There's just a lot we don't know.
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There are tons of other crews that could try to chip away at Charlotte family. Maybe not enough to cause serious damage, but enough to draw her attention.
Not to mention there's one more important certain crew you didn't mention. A crew of vile opportunists.
LMAO
Blackbeard seemed busy with the revos and CP0. Maybe will go after Shanks. But still, any assassination should happen before Morgans is even out of her territory, his paper shouldn't arrive for 24 hours minimum, probably a few days is more likely.
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It's just a mess up on Oda. I can imagine most of his kids here trying to damage control but too bad. It's a simple mistake that's all.
Also, the year of Sanji? Dude was getting HAWKED by a bazooka and got saved by the people he despises!! lolollolool
Fans better watch out calling Wano "the year of Zoro!" Zoro will be captured and become a sword making slave for the shogun.
Nope, because oda never treats zoro bad. ''Don't speak ill of zolo''. It's just sanji.
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That's been bothering me as well. After the emphasis on armor-piercing bullets, Reiju getting wounded and so on, it's like Oda completely forgot he even wrote that or chose to ignore it altogether for bonus hype in the battle sequence
To be fair, none of the decuplets was seen at the wedding, so it isn't really impossible for them to not be aware of the Vinsmoke iron skin if they weren't part of their assassination plan.
Also, the year of Sanji?
The announced Year of Sanji was 2016. I guess people can let go of that at this point…
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Is it really that hard to believe that they only had a handful of those specialized bullet? Especially since they all thought Nusttatore(?) already defeated Germa.
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Blackbeard seemed busy with the revos and CP0. Maybe will go after Shanks. But still, any assassination should happen before Morgans is even out of her territory, his paper shouldn't arrive for 24 hours minimum, probably a few days is more likely.
Nah! Morgan's a true news man bird thing! He'll aim for the morning edition. So 6 hours is my guess. As for how he'll get away from Mont D'or, I have a feeling the clever bird has a plan. And seriously so does Stussy, that CP hussie is up to something don't you doubt it!
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Nah! Morgan's a true news man bird thing! He'll aim for the morning edition. So 6 hours is my guess. As for how he'll get away from Mont D'or, I have a feeling the clever bird has a plan. And seriously so does Stussy, that CP hussie is up to something don't you doubt it!
I just remember the strawhats or their friends always getting the newpaper with their actions on the 3rd day after they did it. Usually comes with the bounties.
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the bird is leaving on the straw hat's ship
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Ichiji: "Take that wounded fellow and get off the island, Sanji. You're only holding us back here!!" Niji: "So long, failure!!!"
Yeah,with the official translation I don't feel like anything is resolved between Sanji and his family. Judge from the tea party, Ichiji, and Niji's last words to him are still just insults and looking down on him. Can't see this arc ending in chapter 900 otherwise it feels like Sanji lost to his family rather than the other way around. Goes so far to save them risking his own crew, still gets treated like trash, and upstaged by them in feats and strength. Not a good ending for Sanji that's for sure. So I see Sanji heading back, Pekoms and Pudding could be in danger or he learns of Pedros death, vinsmokes may get overpowered by Snack/Smoothie.
The way Niji says it is sort of a friendly tone.
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Having a wounded guy being carried on your back is a hindrance in battle. Instead of focussing on the opponent theyd have to focus on protecting Luffy if Sanji just trolls around.
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@uniaka:
Nope, because oda never treats zoro bad. ''Don't speak ill of zolo''. It's just sanji.
Touche. lol.
@.access:
The announced Year of Sanji was 2016. I guess people can let go of that at this point…
I'm quite sure they let go alright. lol
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@Galaxy:
Nope. A break will always be indicated at the end of the last chapter, unless there's a double issue in Weekly Shonen Jump.
Thanks Sir. Appreciate it
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@.access:
To be fair, none of the decuplets was seen at the wedding, so it isn't really impossible for them to not be aware of the Vinsmoke iron skin if they weren't part of their assassination plan.
Can't disagree with you here. A number of reasonable causes have been proposed in this thread, including but not limited to a short supply of these special bullets and murder plot details known to only a handful of the Charlotte siblings. And they all make sense, but that's just it: we're left with filling in the blanks because this was handled ambiguously in the story. The more you look, the more fragile it gets - why did the Big Mom pirates know about the Vinsmokes' iron skin in the first place? Intelligence, right ? But if so, how did they underestimate them so much afterwards? Shouldn't armor piercing bullets be a given among top crews of the New World anyway, since everyone and their sister has haki or devil fruits? Why did Pudding reveal the bullets in such a stupid manner? It might have been simpler to just not include them at all. Lure the Vinsmokes to the wedding, trap them with neither soldiers nor raid suits and then slaughter them because we'll have overwhelming odds, period.
At the end of the day I'll let it go and enjoy the current story. But there could have been a hint when Pudding first introduced those bullets (Linlin could have scolded her about not depleting their stock). Or someone on Cacao island could have used them and the Vinsmokes suffered a bit - it might even make the show more entertaining than the undeserved free-pass hypefest they just went through. I really feel the bullets is another of those small aspects of the arc that could have been handled better.
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Germa will get beaten up Pretty Badly.
I expect that Snack will show up and even as he was introduced as looser we need to see that Yonko top people are real deal before we head to Wano.
Katakuri was shown dealing with Ichiji in few moments but we need some build up for Yonkos crew beside absolute top of it.
Then when Germa gets trashed I expect Buster Call to commence attack - I am almost certain that Stussy informed World Goverment about situation and that they will try to weaken Big Mom Pirates even more using chance they have now.
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Why do people expect the Marines/Blackbeard to show up on the same day everything went to shit when it takes days just to enter Big Mom's territory?
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Why do people expect the Marines/Blackbeard to show up on the same day everything went to shit when it takes days just to enter Big Mom's territory?
I think Maries are most likely to show up. They have their forces spread over New World so they could gather up few Vice Admirals for Buster Call.
Blackbeard is out in my opnion as he must be weakened after fighting with Revos and then CP0, also he cannot travel that FAST around New World. Maybe in few days he could show up, who knows.
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I think Maries are most likely to show up. They have their forces spread over New World so they could gather up few Vice Admirals for Buster Call.
Blackbeard is out in my opnion as he must be weakened after fighting with Revos and then CP0, also he cannot travel that FAST around New World. Maybe in few days he could show up, who knows.
Blackbeard is no different from the Marines. Again, it took Luffy and co. several days to enter her territory. Additionally, Bege said it'll take them a day to leave her territory:
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It's been what, 10-12 hours since the bomb blew up the chateau? In an arc that's been very intent on establishing the time it takes to travel within/to Totland, I don't see any reason to believe that the Marines/Buster Call would arrive in time. The only way they could do that is if they were pretty much already stationed within Big Mom's territory, which is very unlikely for obvious reasons.
And that's not even getting into the biggest issue with an impromptu attempt to eliminate the Big Mom Pirates, which is that it would leave several plot points unresolved.
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Additionally, she needs a Golden Den Den Mushi from an Admiral to even make the call for it to happen anyways, as well for the Marines to know where to quickly gather for the attack, since she's the only one located in Totland. Although all the action is happening in Cacao Island, along with Big Mom heading towards Puff Island, while Stussy is in Whole Cake Island... All of which raises the question as to whether a Buster Call has ever been used to wipe out multiple islands, much less an entire territory.
I guess one might argue that it isn't really far-fetched for a CP0 to be granted access to a Golden Den Den Mushi. But for her to have brought one to the tea party is stretching it even more, as I highly doubt she would have that kind of foresight.
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Not sure where this went from "some parties might attack BM and she'll forget about Zeff" to "Stussy might initiate a Buster Call".
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You can tell that this is a newspaper bird that won't back away from a controversial story.
Next headline will be the stuff of British tabloids and it's light the fuse that blows BM up.
The David humiliates Goliath angle always works wonders.
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Blackbeard is no different from the Marines. Again, it took Luffy and co. several days to enter her territory. Additionally, Bege said it'll take them a day to leave her territory:
It's been what, 10-12 hours since the bomb blew up the chateau? In an arc that's been very intent on establishing the time it takes to travel within/to Totland, I don't see any reason to believe that the Marines/Buster Call would arrive in time. The only way they could do that is if they were pretty much already stationed within Big Mom's territory, which is very unlikely for obvious reasons.
And that's not even getting into the biggest issue with an impromptu attempt to eliminate the Big Mom Pirates, which is that it would leave several plot points unresolved.
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Additionally, she needs a Golden Den Den Mushi from an Admiral to even make the call for it to happen anyways, as well for the Marines to know where to quickly gather for the attack, since she's the only one located in Totland. Although all the action is happening in Cacao Island, along with Big Mom heading towards Puff Island, while Stussy is in Whole Cake Island... All of which raises the question as to whether a Buster Call has ever been used to wipe out multiple islands, much less an entire territory.
I guess one might argue that it isn't really far-fetched for a CP0 to be granted access to a Golden Den Den Mushi. But for her to have brought one to the tea party is stretching it even more, as I highly doubt she would have that kind of foresight.
Wg also has a fully functional completely obedient teleportation device
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@Miss:
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Defending their insults? "It's okay, they're good now because their insults are slightly less mean."
At least they're not threatening to blow up Sanji's hands or beating up a maid just to taunt him anymore.. so, y'know.. Vinsmokes 4 Nakama!sometimes you have to read between the lines and not jump to the extreme polar opposite of what people are getting at just because they have different views than you ;)
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Not sure where this went from "some parties might attack BM and she'll forget about Zeff" to "Stussy might initiate a Buster Call".
For me it was when Stussy informed the BMP about the Tamate Box. This had them put all their attention on the Strawhats and Cacao Island. And with the Sea Slugs MIA I strongly believe they are looking in the wrong direction and are open for an attack with their attention diverted. But let's see how Oda-Sensei handles the conclusion.
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It's too big of an enterprise to be done so abruptly.
It would be an official declaration of war from WG side and the sheer military might neccessary to seriously attack Totland (as in more than 10 battleships) would leave their bases and allied nations opened to pirate attacks. WG can't just decide to throw World Balance away and go into open war. Grand moves like that are probably being decided on Reveries, seeing how a world encompassing conflict would inevitably affect all the countries under WG.
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Concerning the current defenses of Totland, I can't help but reflect that if Big Mom wasn't about to eat the most delicious non-booby-trapped cake ever, she'd literally starve to death on the spot. In which case, Smoothie would be the top offensive potential left in the Big Mom crew. Smoothie.
At that point the Straw Hats, Vinsmokes, Firetank and Sun pirates might as well stick around and mop up the leftovers.Obviously Big Mom is going to live, but at this point the Big Mom crews performance doesn't exactly warrant a grand second showing. There aint' gonna be no Elbaf rematch, thats for sure.
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The more you look,
Don't do that. Not in this arc. Nearly nothing here was made to hold upon closer inspection.
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@.access:
Don't do that. Not in this arc. Nearly nothing here was made to hold upon closer inspection.
Hmmmm do you find this one of oda's least internally consistent arcs?
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It's too big of an enterprise to be done so abruptly.
It would be an official declaration of war from WG side and the sheer military might neccessary to seriously attack Totland (as in more than 10 battleships) would leave their bases and allied nations opened to pirate attacks. WG can't just decide to throw World Balance away and go into open war. Grand moves like that are probably being decided on Reveries, seeing how a world encompassing conflict would inevitably affect all the countries under WG.
I do not think that it would be that big of an issue if Buster Call will come in and get out of there, they can deal with Tartes on their way.
Lack of those transponder snails makes Big Mom territory a very nice target for any bigger force.
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I do not think that it would be that big of an issue if Buster Call will come in and get out of there, they can deal with Tartes on their way.
Lack of those transponder snails makes Big Mom territory a very nice target for any bigger force.
But Oda has built his world and gave it a set of rules. The question isn't whether WG could wipe out Totland, but whether is it worth it or not. It wouldn't take hours, but days. Can they do it and get away with it? NW seems to be a village where hardly anything goes unnoticed.
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I don't see why they couldn't just have kuma teleport an entire fleet to the heart of the island instantly on sussys orders
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@Long:
Hmmmm do you find this one of oda's least internally consistent arcs?
Oh, definitely. It's not that I dislike it, I'm having LOTS of fun with this arc at least since the wedding started. Similarly, I really enjoyed Dressrosa and I even managed to like Fishman Island after a reread, so right now Punk Hazard is the only arc post-TS that I dislike. But even so, I think the drop in Oda's writing since the time skip is real. And it's becoming more and more apparent as time goes.
Zou was the only post-ts arc that I think had a tight writing, but that's expected since it was a very short straight-to-the-point arc, Oda got there knowing exactly what he wanted to show and kept the focus. But for the longer arcs, the writing is just becoming messier and messier and Totto Land is the biggest offender so far.
I don't know why it is so, what could be behind this change… my impression is simply that Oda is just not having fun writing OP anymore. Before he seemed to be an enthusiastic follower of that story as much as the readers were, now it feels more like he is just the writer. I know this may be wrong, but that's the impression the last 8 years are leaving on me.
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It's too big of an enterprise to be done so abruptly.
Pre-timeskip I would have agreed to that. However, we have had direct statements that Akainu has been building up the strength of the Marines in the New World and we can expect him to be a more agressive servant of justice than Sangoku was. So I wouldn't put it past him to try something anyway.
Travel times should imply indeed that we won't see anymore party poopers step in before the Straw Hats have escaped, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're only a couple days behind. Which shouldn't give the BMP enough time to fully reorganize their defenses, so while annihilation isn't an option they can certainly be driven away from their homeland.Bonus, it gives them an extra reason to show up later in the story - either for vengeful purposes or because they're trying to set up a new base somewhere else - and tie loose plot threads.