Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Count:

And Luffy still went along with it without obstructing the plan in any way. Unlike wanting to prevent Crocodile from taking Whitebeard's head, likely because he was a friend of Ace's. I don't mind Luffy teaming up with Bege and I love this manga getting more morally complex like how selfish pirates would actually act. I think it makes sense for Luffy since everybody hates Big Mom, and he generally disposes of villains in ways that might kill them without caring but Oda always having them stay alive by coincidence.

But one of Daz's big complaints about this arc that he's made clear on the forum is not liking how the Straw Hats team up with Bege without reservations towards his plan, that it contradicts why Krieg was such a despicable villain. I disagree with him, but I get where he's coming from.

I think since Jinbei suggested the alliance, Luffy respected his choice and went along with it, as a result, and what would come of it. If Bege approached him directly, I would doubt he'd agree to it then.

[Md-Martin]

@Greg:

Oda's explanation for that was dedicating a chapter to Luffy trying to clobber Bege. That's all he needed. The only thing that's out of character is that Luffy is thinking cool-headed and logically. I'll chalk that up to him understanding the predicament everyone could be in due to his own actions or in this case, a choice not to act.

It's unlike Luffy but Oda was very clear in making us see that Luffy wasn't satisfied with the choice.

I think a big part of it is also the trust between him and Jinbe. While it wasn't his first choice of how to deal with things, I don't know if he'd just agree to it because the plan sounds good enough. Even if it was somebody like Franky or Brook explaining the situation, I don't know for sure if he'd agree with it. But he has an enormous trust in Jinbe after what they've been through. I think he has enough awareness of Jinbe's experience to trust that he'd propose the alliance because it's the best strategy.

[Zar]

I see it as an example of how Jinbei will fit with the crew. Nobody has been able to work as the crew "strategist" before, because nobody fit that role until Jinbei come along. So it's one of his purposes - to help Luffy consider tactics he normally wouldn't. Brute force and dumb luck will only get them so far in the New World.

[The Tenth Strawhat]

@Count:

That's pretty much it. Luffy wanting to punch Bege for Pekoms was like when Luffy refused to let Crocodile out until Ivankov convinced him. Which I'm totally fine with. I got way more fun out of this alliance more than I ever did with Luffy and Law lol.

That's understandable. After all, panels like this made it all worthwhile.

[knuten]

Hi, Greg!

In chapter 851 where Jinbei makes reappearance for Luffy and Nami, one can see in the first panel of the first page a "ice cone building" with the number 76(in the previous chapters it had BIG). 76 is also the two first digits of Jinbeis first bounty that was 76 million berries. Is there some significance or pun related to this number and Jinbei that you know about?

[Robby]

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

76 representing jinbe's american dream for equality

[tatermoog]

Jinbe as Team Strategist is a bit of a problem, of course, because he also proposed the dumbest single plan in the history of One Piece.

[choperman]

Question Greg, does the new cover make you think the arc might go differently than before? Oda's done the villain only covers, 3 times before, with Braouqe works, CP9, and Doflamingo pirates, each time three things have happened

A. One vs One match ups
B. One of the main fighting forces of the bad guys group gets defeated before the big scuffle begins (Mr.3 for a Baroque works on little garden, Blueno for CP9 on the rooftop before the enies lobby fights, vergo of the Doflamingo family on punk Hazard, and now cracker when they first got on the island)
C. The straw hats end up beating them

So far B is the only one that has happened, do you think the other ones will occur? I mean Luffy promised to defeat her later…. is that still going to be the case? or will Big Mom go down now, somehow? and will there be one vs one match ups like before? (this time most likely with help of vinesmokes and possibly capones crew)

EDIT:

lol sorry there's more

D. They always get bounty increasses
E. When the straw hat (and allies) are done with there one on one match ups and Luffy fights the big bad, the crew has to do something vital in the mean time, For Barouque works it was stopping the huge bomb, For CP9 it was surviving the Buster Call, For the Doflamingo family it was the stalling bird cage, and my guess is stoping Big moms ramapge for now... or maybe something else will happen latter

[Drake_Cloud]

@Robby:

Interesting. Especially that last one about "Astronomer" possibly being relevant for finding Raftel, mostly because I'd laugh my ass off if the crew finally makes it into the legendary Raftel in Outer space and it winds up just being where Enel's been chilling out.

Also, "Astronomer" would be an interesting role for the last crew member, as a Robin-style "Relevant to the plot, not to running a ship".

[Count Mario]

Oh no, it's Monet all over again.

lol I actually wouldn't mind an Astronomer joining the crew. Not only because of tying into the moon/aliens side of One Piece, but because of how reading constellations (also known as celestial navigation/astronavigation) is one of the most olden forms navigating yourself at sea. In fact, I think navy soldiers used to be taught that. Although that sounds like it sort of breaches into Nami's territory.

[maxterdexter]

There is bound to be a reason that celestial navigation is useless in the grand line, like regular compass.

[KageKageKing]

Eminem? Really, Greg?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Count:

Oh no, it's Monet all over again.

lol I actually wouldn't mind an Astronomer joining the crew. Not only because of tying into the moon/aliens side of One Piece, but because of how reading constellations (also known as celestial navigation/astronavigation) is one of the most olden forms navigating yourself at sea. In fact, I think navy soldiers used to be taught that. Although that sounds like it sort of breaches into Nami's territory.

At the night we name every star.

We know where we are.

[Md-Martin]

Nice Batman shirt, Greg. I'm curious, have you ever been a somewhat regular American superhero comic book reader?

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

Great new episode Greg, especially the golden southbird part, that´s for me why it´s always worthwhile to watch your content.

[Nupas2312]

Greg, idk if you get asked this alot, but you probably are aware of it.

but some people theorize that Wano will be based off of "Book of Five Rings" which I heard was the material that influenced Kishi to make Narutos world.

I think you said somewhere on here that Wano will be split into several islands, you think it will also be composed off of villages like village of fire, water, etc to?

[Razh]

@Nupas2312:

Greg, idk if you get asked this alot, but you probably are aware of it.

but some people theorize that Wano will be based off of "Book of Five Rings" which I heard was the material that influenced Kishi to make Narutos world.

I think you said somewhere on here that Wano will be split into several islands, you think it will also be composed off of villages like village of fire, water, etc to?

Book of Five Rings is an instruction manual. An awesome instruction manual, but still.

I can see some ideas regarding fighting mechanics or philosophy being taken from there, but that's it.

[Greg]

Imho Oda wouldn't do that because Kishimoto did it.

He wants to tread new ground and that means not doing what his rival did.

That said, I do believe Wano will be heavily influenced by a particular piece of Japanese folklore.

[Nupas2312]

@Greg:

Imho Oda wouldn't do that because Kishimoto did it.

He wants to tread new ground and that means not doing what his rival did.

That said, I do believe Wano will be heavily influenced by a particular piece of Japanese folklore.

so what do u suppose the fire, mist, and wind things that r a part of the names of Wano characters like Kinemon all,Raizo, and Jigoro(I think he from Wano) are?

[Greg]

Oh, you mean including those themes.
In your post you suggested Wano would be based on it.

Yeah absolutely! Never beyond Oda to add some extra spice that way!

[Nupas2312]

@Greg:

Oh, you mean including those themes.
In your post you suggested Wano would be based on it.

Yeah absolutely! Never beyond Oda to add some extra spice that way!

Yeah that is what I mean.

I'm just saying is he gonna include the themes and elements from that book and implement them along with whatever else he has in mind.

Edit: I don't want to bombard u wit questions. But I got one more u think DFs r more supernaturally(fruit have soul and such) made or scientific (not literally but u know manga science) made?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Razh:

Book of Five Rings is an instruction manual. An awesome instruction manual, but still.

I can see some ideas regarding fighting mechanics or philosophy being taken from there, but that's it.

edit: NVM read post wrong

[Jaime]

Greg have your thoughts changed at all with how the finale will play out?

[choperman]

@Jaime:

Greg have your thoughts changed at all with how the finale will play out?

I'd like to know this too!!!

Especially with the new all villains cover, does that change anything???

[Johnny B. Decent]

Well, everyone, minus Luffy and Katakuri, are heading to Cacao Island, so I don't think too much had deviated from what he suggested.

[Jaime]

No issue in asking!

[Rivaille]

Throwback to the argument we had few month ago about CoA, the last chapter confirmed that there are different level of CoA. Therefore, Koka can be the level up of invisible Haki as I thought.

What do you guys think now?

[SirCaesar]

I think that the line just means that one CoA can be stronger than another, which is enforced by Luffy and Katakuri both using black CoA in that moment with Luffy getting hurt.
It's the same as Zoro's line "my haki is stronger than yours" back in Dressrosa.

[Greg]

But I got one more u think DFs r more supernaturally(fruit have soul and such) made or scientific (not literally but u know manga science) made?

It could still go either way. A lot of it depends on whether or not the carvings from Enel's sidestory represent their production or not.

Greg have your thoughts changed at all with how the finale will play out?

I'm really excited because it can go a number of ways!

What I find most shocking and important to how the story wraps up is Katakuri's handling of the patissiers.

The majority of evil things the Charlotte Family has knowingly done were in the realm of being reasonably understandable.

This is because:

• They were being done to evil people/organizations.
• They were being done to people/organizations that invaded, double-crossed her or broke agreements with her and knew the consequences.
• They were under orders from Mom that were related to above reasons.

If anyone takes issue with that sentiment please note my choice of words there ;)

But Katakuri attacking the patissiers was a purely sadistic and evil act.

It's hard to explain that away and make him a redeemable character after that. Even if they wind up being 'okay' that act is still very difficult to sweep under the rug.

SO.

THAT SAID.

I'm not entirely sure whether things can end well with Mom in this arc. It's still possible, but Katakuri has basically pissed in the milkshake of any festivities that might accompany a happy ending with the Charlottes.

Not impossible! I still think it can happen! But…it's a little bit more difficult now...

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@Greg:

It could still go either way. A lot of it depends on whether or not the carvings from Enel's sidestory represent their production or not.

I'm really excited because it can go a number of ways!

What I find most shocking and important to how the story wraps up is Katakuri's handling of the patissiers.

The majority of evil things the Charlotte Family has knowingly done were in the realm of being reasonably understandable.

This is because:

• They were being done to evil people/organizations.
• They were being done to people/organizations that invaded, double-crossed her or broke agreements with her and knew the consequences.
• They were under orders from Mom that were related to above reasons.

If anyone takes issue with that sentiment please note my choice of words there ;)

But Katakuri attacking the patissiers was a purely sadistic and evil act.

It's hard to explain that away and make him a redeemable character after that. Even if they wind up being 'okay' that act is still very difficult to sweep under the rug.

SO.

THAT SAID.

I'm not entirely sure whether things can end well with Mom in this arc. It's still possible, but Katakuri has basically pissed in the milkshake of any festivities that might accompany a happy ending with the Charlottes.

Not impossible! I still think it can happen! But…it's a little bit more difficult now...

I mean if its a deep seated reaction to anxiety I think (and the cooks are alive) thats explainable away enough. I mean he did forgive the tea and with what we saw with pudding she stabbed people making fun of her. I think katakuri's act was bad but on the whole hes not a sadistic and evil guy.

[Greg]

I mean if its a deep seated reaction to anxiety

Anxiety is never a reason for a human who is capable of clear thought to skewer other humans.

I completely agree that they might be alive! But it doesn't excuse, like I said above, skewering a living human. (if they are human)

Again, I'm being careful with my words here in noting that he's an adult.

Pudding was not when she did that.

As an adult, we know what Pudding's intentions were. But those intentions have not succeeded.

I'm not trying to make a moral argument, I'm laying out how Oda deliberately handles his characters and their intentions so he can use them later.

I'm completely open to the idea that he could explain it away! In fact I want him to. But it's pretty tough at this point. Not a bad thing! Being able to logically explain those kinds of things are what make for an interesting story!

[Jaime]

I would still imagine what Big Mom reaction/state of mind at the end of all this would be the deciding factor.

Don’t see why Katakuri is taken care into account when we don’t even know th full reason behind his mouth.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Greg:

It could still go either way. A lot of it depends on whether or not the carvings from Enel's sidestory represent their production or not.

I'm really excited because it can go a number of ways!

What I find most shocking and important to how the story wraps up is Katakuri's handling of the patissiers.

The majority of evil things the Charlotte Family has knowingly done were in the realm of being reasonably understandable.

This is because:

• They were being done to evil people/organizations.
• They were being done to people/organizations that invaded, double-crossed her or broke agreements with her and knew the consequences.
• They were under orders from Mom that were related to above reasons.

If anyone takes issue with that sentiment please note my choice of words there ;)

But Katakuri attacking the patissiers was a purely sadistic and evil act.

It's hard to explain that away and make him a redeemable character after that. Even if they wind up being 'okay' that act is still very difficult to sweep under the rug.

SO.

THAT SAID.

I'm not entirely sure whether things can end well with Mom in this arc. It's still possible, but Katakuri has basically pissed in the milkshake of any festivities that might accompany a happy ending with the Charlottes.

Not impossible! I still think it can happen! But…it's a little bit more difficult now...

Well, morality in One Piece is usually pretty flexible. Like Bartolomeo was pretty much said to have roasted people alive on skewers, but he's now just the wacky buddy they have. And even Luffy and Bege parted on decent terms.

[Drake_Cloud]

@Greg:

It could still go either way. A lot of it depends on whether or not the carvings from Enel's sidestory represent their production or not.

I'm really excited because it can go a number of ways!

What I find most shocking and important to how the story wraps up is Katakuri's handling of the patissiers.

The majority of evil things the Charlotte Family has knowingly done were in the realm of being reasonably understandable.

This is because:

• They were being done to evil people/organizations.
• They were being done to people/organizations that invaded, double-crossed her or broke agreements with her and knew the consequences.
• They were under orders from Mom that were related to above reasons.

If anyone takes issue with that sentiment please note my choice of words there ;)

But Katakuri attacking the patissiers was a purely sadistic and evil act.

It's hard to explain that away and make him a redeemable character after that. Even if they wind up being 'okay' that act is still very difficult to sweep under the rug.

SO.

THAT SAID.

I'm not entirely sure whether things can end well with Mom in this arc. It's still possible, but Katakuri has basically pissed in the milkshake of any festivities that might accompany a happy ending with the Charlottes.

Not impossible! I still think it can happen! But…it's a little bit more difficult now...

Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that too actually. I mean, one of the things I noticed before the current chapter was that Katakuri was pretty much the least hateable (presumably end-of-arc) villain Luffy's ever fought. I mean, up to that point his crimes included . . . hunting down the people who tried to kill his mother? Sure he was kind of in on the whole "Kill Germa" thing, but that's pretty small potatoes for Luffy 1v1 characters. Franky did something similar to that and Oda turned him into a crew member!

But killing some guys because they've seen things that ruin your reputation? That's not even really villainous in the category of "I'm going to kill an entire city to take power" or "Let's start a genocide & race war" that Luffy is more used to dealing with, and is more . . . just being a dick. Its a clear character strike against him, but its still kind of a weak justification for getting laid out on his ass via righteous fury, Bellamy style.

My best idea is that Luffy is going to throw Katakuri off his game somehow using whatever he just discovered, and that is going to shake up the fight in a way that we're not yet expecting.

[Kdom]

Things seems to becomes quite difficult for a reconciliation/truce. First it doesn’t seem Sanji will need other people for baking the cake. Perospero is really pissed now. Katakuri will certainly be defeated by Luffy.
The only thing in favor of this scenario is Mum going in a random direction and not following Perospero indications anymore.

[K. Kira XXIII]

Mama already started heading elsewhere from Perospero is telling her, so the situation of the entire Tottland being destroyed is possible. She will be able to destroy several, and with the Big Mom pirates unable to respond, it is possible that Brulee will let Katakuri know, unless he gets defeated first.

Funny things, Luffy has been told to go to Cacao Island, and Nami will get there in 10 hours. Sanji is finishing the cake in 3, then he is leaving. So Luffy and Katakuri's fight needs to finish before Sanji sets sail.

[Razh]

@Greg:

But Katakuri attacking the patissiers was a purely sadistic and evil act.

Yeah, it went a little too overboard for it not to mean anything.

For example, Oda might have easily made him sweep them away with a wave of mochi, but instead, he went full apeshit on them.

But then we have people like Bellamy, Caribou, Crocodile, CC and others, who were shown as evil and/or sadistic as well, but were still portrayed in a sympathetic way later on, some more than others.

And let's not forget Law, the current ally, who has a cruel side himself. Or Capone, the current ally, who kills for fun. Or Kid, likely a future ally, who doesn't mind crucifying people.

Like you say, Oda can find a way to make it work.

[Count Mario]

@S.C.:

Well, morality in One Piece is usually pretty flexible. Like Bartolomeo was pretty much said to have roasted people alive on skewers, but he's now just the wacky buddy they have. And even Luffy and Bege parted on decent terms.

Bartolomeo's crimes happened off-panel. Same for Bege except with Pekoms, but Pekoms still survived. This is how ethical portrayal in One Piece works. And why you'll see Luffy tag-team with Crocodile once or twice while Arlong will never be seen again, even though you can easily argue that Crocodile (and characters like Big Mom by extension) are worse than Arlong ever was.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Count:

Bartolomeo's crimes happened off-panel. Same for Bege except with Pekoms, but Pekoms still survived. This is how ethical portrayal in One Piece works. And why you'll see Luffy tag-team with Crocodile once or twice while Arlong will never be seen again, even though you can easily argue that Crocodile (and characters like Big Mom by extension) are worse than Arlong ever was.

But by that logic, we saw Buggy attack and hurt his own crewmates, but even in-story, he's sort of tolerated by Luffy.

[Count Mario]

@S.C.:

But by that logic, we saw Buggy attack and hurt his own crewmates, but even in-story, he's sort of tolerated by Luffy.

That is true. But Buggy has become a joke for decades with all of his intimidation/bloodlust removed. I don't think Luffy ever saw or knew about the one crewmate Buggy killed either. He might be the sole exception.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Count:

That is true. But Buggy has become a joke for decades with all of his intimidation/bloodlust removed. I don't think Luffy ever saw or knew about the one crewmate Buggy killed either. He might be the sole exception.

True enough, Count. Though it is funny to think he is now running the One Piece equivalent of Blackwater.

[Shobu Yoruichi]

@Greg:

What I find most shocking and important to how the story wraps up is Katakuri's handling of the patissiers.

The majority of evil things the Charlotte Family has knowingly done were in the realm of being reasonably understandable.

This is because:

• They were being done to evil people/organizations.
• They were being done to people/organizations that invaded, double-crossed her or broke agreements with her and knew the consequences.
• They were under orders from Mom that were related to above reasons.

If anyone takes issue with that sentiment please note my choice of words there ;)

But Katakuri attacking the patissiers was a purely sadistic and evil act.

It's hard to explain that away and make him a redeemable character after that. Even if they wind up being 'okay' that act is still very difficult to sweep under the rug.

SO.

THAT SAID.

I'm not entirely sure whether things can end well with Mom in this arc. It's still possible, but Katakuri has basically pissed in the milkshake of any festivities that might accompany a happy ending with the Charlottes.

Not impossible! I still think it can happen! But…it's a little bit more difficult now...

In the moment that Oda failed to let the audience accept that he could put a Logia that wasn't elemental one, and had to change it to Paramecia for people's like… is when Katakuri started to feel like a different character, a special one, and for sure you can see it there, humiliating Luffy, the last one in doing so was Crocodile, plz... and for sure everybody can say that Sir Croc is his best villain, Katakuri's in that level now.

Oda is already making people liking him, last chapter Katakuri's fandom skyrocketed, and no one cared about the cooks, is just the applying to a person that is called "The Perfectionist" after all.

[CHiZZoPs]

I can't stop picturing Charlotte somehow ending up with the demeanor of Yubaba's sister (Spirited Away) at the end of this arc.

[Greg]

Lots of awesome discussion.

But.

One not-so-awesome point I'd like to address.

Katakuri was not made a Paramecia b/c of fans.

Oda does not change his comic over reasons like that.

He'll change it for reasons of sensitivity. He doesn't change it because some people don't like an idea he had.

The reasons Oda would change something story-related would be:

• an editorial error.

• fans discovered a full-on error on his part.

• Oda changed what he had in mind b/c not all details were solidified.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@Greg:

Lots of awesome discussion.

But.

One not-so-awesome point I'd like to address.

Katakuri was not made a Paramecia b/c of fans.

Oda does not change his comic over reasons like that.

He'll change it for reasons of sensitivity. He doesn't change it because some people don't like an idea he had.

The reasons Oda would change something story-related would be:

• an editorial error.

• fans discovered a full-on error on his part.

• Oda changed what he had in mind b/c not all details were solidified.

I think oda just changed it so all logias would be elemental only

[maxterdexter]

@Long:

I think oda just changed it so all logias would be elemental only

Still waiting for my Argon logia.

[MrBits]

I think he changed it to highlight his similarities to Luffy. Paramicia vs. Paramica.

[Greg]

If 'swamp' works as 'nature' then mochi certainly can as well, esp. in his world.

He obv. decided not to go that route but it would have been very easy to swallow.

Anyway.

ploop

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Greg:

If 'swamp' works as 'nature' then mochi certainly can as well, esp. in his world.

He obv. decided not to go that route but it would have been very easy to swallow.

Anyway.

ploop

Well, I mean, if you go out to the Everglades, for example, you can find swamps as a naturally occurring thing. Mochi is mashed-up sticky rice paste, so not so much. But really, why he changed it is more likely to make it a counterpart to Luffy's fruit.

[ARTEMlS]

But why "special" paramecia?

[Greg]

@S.C.:

Well, I mean, if you go out to the Everglades, for example, you can find swamps as a naturally occurring thing. Mochi is mashed-up sticky rice paste, so not so much. But really, why he changed it is more likely to make it a counterpart to Luffy's fruit.

Boom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilex_integra