Just glad they didn't kill Nymeria off since these showrunners hate Direwolves.
Game of Thrones (tv show thread)
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All the pieces seems to coming together in this episodes. Old established relations are bearing fruits and people are meeting each other and exchanging information.
Dany's discussion on varys was entertaining at first but it soon became a little to sincere and risky for someone like Varys. I do expect to stand for himself but I don't expect him to grandstand and basically dare Danny to kill her. He didn't survive so many kings by being an open bleeding heart. He cares but he's not stupid or suicidal.
Jon really need to learn to discuss his decisions in private with his counselors(or wathever Sansa is). I mean 10 seconds he is agreeing that going to Dany would be a bad idea and the next he is announcing to everyone that he is going to Dragonstone. I didn't mind Sansa to much this time because her protest was more emotionally charged and she is trying to avoid her brother getting killed.
Littlefinger seems to have come to invite Jon onto the political games those of KIng's Landing love so much. Jon naturally doesn't seems to interested and pined Littlefinger to a wall. I was immediately remind of Ned and considering it was right besides Ned bones I am not sure I love the parallel I am seeing. I hope it is more about him becoming like Ned in personality than him underestimating Littlefinger like Ned. I would have liked a private goodbye with Sansa and Jon but at least they parted in good terms. Let's hope she doesn't let Littlefinger play with her head.
Arya finally learned about the North. I didn't really get what she was saying to Nymeria(thanks CCC) but I'm scarred it makes Arya change direction again. for a moment I even wondered if they were going for a cheap kill now that Arya wanted something more peaceful. I would really prefer if she meets with family as King's Landing is the least interesting plot wise right now. I would take an intrigue with Littlefinger rather than several episode about the walking corpse of Cersei. I'm not really interested in a giant bow. I just want her to die so we can move on.
I can't buy Tuly deciding to change alligeance. He is an asshole but he is a traditionalist asshole. We can see how little respect anyone with dignity have for what Jaimie did despite knowing how batshit crazy the king was and the war is not even in Cersei's favor. Hell she blew the chruch thingie with probably dozens of outside casualities an there's bound to be some rumors of her killing Tommen to get the throne. So at best Tuly should bluff to be able to go to his lands. Any type of alligeance would be out of character in my opinion.
Sam continue is time as apprentice Maestr. I liked that his gardian knew about the method so that Sam didn't suddenly turned into a prodigy. The maestrs know about it and the reason they don't practice is because they are dangerous. Fine by me. I hope we don't get drama about sam breaking the rules. I hate whenever there's the whole I was desperate so it totally justify saying fuck you to your rule. So either fire Sam instantly without making the others look like fools for doing so or have them overlook it as a minor discretion in a 1 minute scene. I don't need a big speech.
Anyway Mormont is almost ready for his queen and she's knocking on the door. I liked the little meeting in the map room. They were all delightful in their own way especially old lady. Each and everyone give their piece and their points are fairly legitimate. The war could be done in one day (I would prefer so) and their armies are the one taking the beating in the waiting game. Thankfully Danny has her army also working in another front.
I really appreciate lady Tyrell advice. That world at first seems to work on logic but it seems that for all the political intrigue that there is ruthless and a little madness is the best cocktail for success. You need to be able to play the game but half the time it is dirty trick and cheating that gives you the victories.
Euron's must have been on some serious adrenaline doping juice during that attack. He kept taking hits and slashes and never slowed down. It's freaking weird. If the show still had people died on logical occasion Euron would have been a goner for sure. It really bothered me how unaffected he was to hits that clearly should be an hindrance or put him at death bed. It's kind of like when Arya was running from the faceless woman but waaaay worse and nonsensical. He has some pretty nice ships tho. Incredible what people can built when motivated.
And all of this had to happen when Ironborn and Dorme were getting an understanding. I'm surprise the taking of the sand ladies did not involved raping. I guess they were in a hurry.
Theon went back to his coward's way. Not a great protector. I wonder who will rescue him.
That scene between translator and Greyworm really felt like some of the stupid drama you get in romantic subplots in tv shows. What the hell was that? I hope we avoid this for the rest of the show or at least keep it to a minimum.
That transition from pus to food was awesome.
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Let's hope she doesn't let Littlefinger play with her head.
You don't know how I'm hoping af here right now! The way they had written the counsils with Jon and the Lords the last episodes, with them and Sansa always disagreeing. Baelish still sneaking around, scenes always ending on his eyes like on a damn suspicious dog.
I hope it's all a red herring and the only thing currently going south in the North are Jon and the White Walkers.
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1-Why is the language called high valyrian? Is there a common or low valyrian ?
2- Myy memory of season 1 is a little foggy but was Varys really trying to overthrow Robert with Dany's brother?
My memory of Varys is that he was with the mad king, stayed with Robert and when things started to go to shit in Westeros and Dany started doing good for the people on the other side he chose to help her. It seems a lilltle weird that he would help the brother. If he was one of those who believed you have to be special to rule and Robert was an usurper it would make sense but he seems to only care if you are a good ruler or not. So it makes no sense he would change Robert who was bad but not awful with the unvetted brother. Dany makes sense becasue her deeds are known and he shipped Tyrion who he saw do good work.
Or is Varys being a person of the people a new development?
3- I don't think Jon and Dany should have much problem. The North general policy seems to be "don't bother us and we won't bother you" and dragon glass mining shouldn't bother Dany much since it's just normal weapon when used against humans. The question is can entitled Dany and clueless Jon manage their flaws enough to not be at each other's throat.
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1-Why is the language called high valyrian? Is there a common or low valyrian ?
2- Myy memory of season 1 is a little foggy but was Varys really trying to overthrow Robert with Dany's brother?
My memory of Varys is that he was with the mad king, stayed with Robert and when things started to go to shit in Westeros and Dany started doing good for the people on the other side he chose to help her. It seems a lilltle weird that he would help the brother. If he was one of those who believed you have to be special to rule and Robert was an usurper it would make sense but he seems to only care if you are a good ruler or not. So it makes no sense he would change Robert who was bad but not awful with the unvetted brother. Dany makes sense becasue her deeds are known and he shipped Tyrion who he saw do good work.
Or is Varys being a person of the people a new development?
High Valyrian is essentially the world's Latin, with several languages spoken in the cities of Essos being some derivation of that. Think of it in the same way that the Romantic languages (Spanish, Italian, etc.) are derived from Latin.
Varys and Illyrio originally intended to help Viserys retake the Iron Throne back at the beginning of the series, but they quickly realized before too long that he wasn't a useful candidate. Their support for Dany didn't fully kick in until her dragons hatched.
In the books, Varys is very much a puppeteer with no strong moral leanings. The show has generally cast him in a more benevolent light but his actual beneficence is still open to interpretation.
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High Valyrian is essentially the world's Latin, with several languages spoken in the cities of Essos being some derivation of that. Think of it in the same way that the Romantic languages (Spanish, Italian, etc.) are derived from Latin.
It does seems like the language of the elite. I just find the "high" part extremely pretentious.
In the books, Varys is very much a puppeteer with no strong moral leanings. The show has generally cast him in a more benevolent light but his actual beneficence is still open to interpretation.
That makes sense. I did suppose that was the case when the brother was mentionned. A moral Varys seems to be a choice of the show rather than something that was decided from the get go.
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But Varys(just as Jorah) was part of the same plot that tried to get Dany assassinated, seems unfair to me that he gets to stay while Jorah is friendzoned away.
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But Varys(just as Jorah) was part of the same plot that tried to get Dany assassinated, seems unfair to me that he gets to stay while Jorah is friendzoned away.
Varys brought Dorne and Tyrion. Plus she did promise that Jorah could come back if he gets cured.
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1-Why is the language called high valyrian? Is there a common or low valyrian ?/QUOTE]
Basically yeah. Every widespread language on earth has prestige dialects and lower dialects that people don't respect as much.
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It does seems like the language of the elite. I just find the "high" part extremely pretentious.
It's seriously just a parallel to Latin. Where you could also argue it being pretentious that common/vernacular dialects were referred to as "vulgar Latin."
That makes sense. I did suppose that was the case when the brother was mentionned. A moral Varys seems to be a choice of the show rather than something that was decided from the get go.
Or he could just be lying? I'm not sure I believe anything that man says.
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In the books, Varys is very much a puppeteer with no strong moral leanings. The show has generally cast him in a more benevolent light but his actual beneficence is still open to interpretation.
It's generally agreed that Varys does believe in his "raise a good and proper king who will take care of the people" scheme, though he is bitterly ruthless about going through with it. He actually killed Kevan in the books because Kev was too good a ruler and he needs Westeros all fucked up (this is also probably the reason Varys hasn't gotten Littlefinger offed; the smarmy fuck is only good for burning the kingdom down).
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1-Why is the language called high valyrian? Is there a common or low valyrian ?
Others have chimed in, but to add in, I believe Low Valyrian is what the Ghiscari people speak.
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It's seriously just a parallel to Latin. Where you could also argue it being pretentious that common/vernacular dialects were referred to as "vulgar Latin."
I didn't know about the vulgar latin thing. It make sense. I just assumed it was the language of Valeria rather than where most of the recent languages come from.Or he could just be lying? I'm not sure I believe anything that man says.
I don't think he would do that kind of speech to Dany if he was playing the odds. Plus the most recent seasons really seems to want to push the benevolent narrative. I would be truly surprise if it is a facade. I think more modern approach is simply slowing seeping into the show.
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@Cyan:
It's generally agreed that Varys does believe in his "raise a good and proper king who will take care of the people" scheme, though he is bitterly ruthless about going through with it. He actually killed Kevan in the books because Kev was too good a ruler and he needs Westeros all fucked up (this is also probably the reason Varys hasn't gotten Littlefinger offed; the smarmy fuck is only good for burning the kingdom down).
I suppose that makes sense given his origins and his approval of Tyrion's administrative efforts, but I think that desire is still secondary to his desire for power and his love of the game. Remember, he was trying to "help" Robert and Ned not because he wanted to stabilize the realm but because his plans to invade it weren't ready yet.
There's always seemed to be some level of mutual respect between the two chessmasters, to the point that simply assassinating the other would prove an uncouth end to a fun opponent. If either of them really wanted the other dead it probably wouldn't be too difficult.
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I barely can't believe there are only 5 chapters left, so many people are gonna die in too little time(hopefully Sansa included)
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They're still making another season… though more like a half-season at 6 eps.
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Still wish they would have delayed this season for another couple months and just gave us all the last 13 episodes. But marketing, schedules etc. are in the way I know.
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Still wish they would have delayed this season for another couple months and just gave us all the last 13 episodes. But marketing, schedules etc. are in the way I know.
That wouldn't have made a difference. The season's weird format is due to a contract loophole and unrelated to rushed production or anything like that.
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The maestr should teach some slaves their method for grayscale and dump them in Valeria or a special area just for that. But I suppose since it is mostly from Esos it is to much work to cure such a rare desease.
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I thought the Sand Snakes or whatever those girls go by use poison primarily. Not one of them equipped any during that fight?
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I thought the Sand Snakes or whatever those girls go by use poison primarily. Not one of them equipped any during that fight?
The guy got stabbed in the neck and didn't care. I don't think poison would have done much.
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I think that the poison has to be reaplied, because it goes innert if it's just left there and they were taken by surprise? in the leadership holding ship, in the middle of the fleet.
I'll go sulk somewhere else.
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I agree with you maxter that the entire scene and its premise were just really dumb and offputting. Especially since this was clearly meant to be the Action Scene of the Week.
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So Bronn marrying the last Sand Snake and becoming Prince of Dorne confirmed :ninja: by the way, where is Bronn acrually?:ninja:
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So Bronn marrying the last Sand Snake and becoming Prince of Dorne confirmed :ninja: by the way, where is Bronn acrually?:ninja:
Probably in some brothel of the capital. Jaimie promised him a new woman to marry when they are back.
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I thought the Sand Snakes or whatever those girls go by use poison primarily. Not one of them equipped any during that fight?
Well…..the one who was captured does so, but was in the books, and wasn't a fighter. I don't believe the other two who were killed were known for doing so.
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Tryion has made a very good plan, and Euron just inadvertently ruined it. now with their naval powers gone, if Dany wants this plan to work they definitely need the dornish army.
or she can just use her dragons to destroy castley rock and attack king's landing with her armies+the tyell's. -
Giving cersei space to maneuver gets you killed, Ned gave her a run start, and she voided the coup, the sparrow gave her house prison and she got a guardian zombie and a medieval tactical nuke, daenerys gave her a month and she got a ninja pirate ship and took down part of her fleet.
Going for casterly rock is a mistake.
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That one Tarly who joined Cersei, is that Samwell's daddy?
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That one Tarly who joined Cersei, is that Samwell's daddy?
Yes, that is Sam's father, Randyl.
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@S.C.:
Yes, that is Sam's father, Randyl.
Ohh,that one dude could be the only one on Cersei's side who actually knows what having honor feels like. I hope he reconciles with Sammy but damn this is GoT, the dude could get fried to a crisp without ever seeing Sam again.
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They effed up the Dorne storyline, so they found a meh way to ged rid of it. xD At least they established Euron better now and made him an actual villain instead of Westerosi Jack Sparrow.^^
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That wouldn't have made a difference. The season's weird format is due to a contract loophole and unrelated to rushed production or anything like that.
The wait for probably 2019 for the last 6 episodes will be torture though. And I am sure they could have shot it for 2018, but probably wanna milk for a little longer or so they have time to develop spin offs to start quickly after the main series ends. xD
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Ohh,that one dude could be the only one on Cersei's side who actually knows what having honor feels like. I hope he reconciles with Sammy but damn this is GoT, the dude could get fried to a crisp without ever seeing Sam again.
Sure, threatening your innocent 15 year old boy to either die by his hands or go join Night´s Watch and with pretty much screwing his life is pretty honorful
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Sure, threatening your innocent 15 year old boy to either die by his hands or go join Night´s Watch and with pretty much screwing his life is pretty honorful
He was also a huge dickbag to Brienne in the books, too.
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Sure, threatening your innocent 15 year old boy to either die by his hands or go join Night´s Watch and with pretty much screwing his life is pretty honorful
For a medieval world, a coward son would more likely be a stain in his honor.
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Tarly is the last veteran general-commander in westeros.
Blackfish is dead, stanis is dead, baristan is dead, tywin is dead, kevan is dead, bedric is undead.
Anyone who lead more than 3-4 winning battles is dead.
I'd guess that Vale Knight that is the gofer between Littlefinger and Robin.
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Tarly is the last veteran general-commander in westeros.
Blackfish is dead, stanis is dead, baristan is dead, tywin is dead, kevan is dead, bedric is undead.
Anyone who lead more than 3-4 winning battles is dead.
I'd guess that Vale Knight that is the gofer between Littlefinger and Robin.
Bronze Yohn is kind of the Vale's big badass-in-chief, but he's an afterthought on the show, so it's excusable to forget about,.
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btw, is Howland Reed ever going to show up?
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I'm still waiting for Gendry.
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For a medieval world, a coward son would more likely be a stain in his honor.
Are you talking about honor in the show or from our perspective?
Since the only honorable character in the show was Ned and he got killed for it pretty easily. -
in episode 10 of Season 4 Tormund said to jon snow: "you spend to much time with us, you can never be a kneeler again". I think we soon find out…
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Nah, he won't bend, won't have to. Melissandre said much impressive stories about Jon, and I think Daenerys is in a very aggressive mood right now, and she just wants to appear strong. But she hasn't met him and hasn't heard what he's seen yet. And Tyrion is there. Daenerys may not realize it but he should well know that the north won't take well to another foreign leader again.
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Nah, he won't bend, won't have to. Melissandre said much impressive stories about Jon, and I think Daenerys is in a very aggressive mood right now, and she just wants to appear strong. But she hasn't met him and hasn't heard what he's seen yet. And Tyrion is there. Daenerys may not realize it but he should well know that the north won't take well to another foreign leader again.
The North has a live and let live policy plus they don't really do slavery from what we saw. So politics shouldn't be much problem. But with Davos coming and Mellisandra being there tension could run high.
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The North has a live and let live policy plus they don't really do slavery from what we saw. So politics shouldn't be much problem. But with Davos coming and Mellisandra being there tension could run high.
Slavery is outlawed in all of Western as well as Braavos. The North is still likely to recoil at her Unsullied army though, even if they are freed.
The North is also famous for Torrhen Stark, the King Who Knelt, who willingly surrendered to Aegon the Conqueror in exchange for retaining a fair amount of autonomy. That event is likely to be referenced at Jon and Dany's meeting, but I think Jon is too much of a narrative equal to fully be Dany's total subordinate. I suppose he could be her head general if need be…
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The North is still likely to recoil at her Unsullied army though, even if they are freed.
But the North doesn't need an unsullied army to keep it on check. They clearly don't give a damn about the political game so aside of Dany being a bitch for the hell of it there's no reason for a difficult bargain. The North don't question her queenship and she let them live their lives.
The North is also famous for Torrhen Stark, the King Who Knelt, who willingly surrendered to Aegon the Conqueror in exchange for retaining a fair amount of autonomy.
I haven't read the books but was that becasue the cold wasn't too good for the dragons?
That event is likely to be referenced at Jon and Dany's meeting, but I think Jon is too much of a narrative equal to fully be Dany's total subordinate. I suppose he could be her head general if need be…
I'm sure narrative will find a way to make them butting heads(Davos, or arrogance) but on a logical level they don't reason to not agree. Jon is not trying to be king or trying to kill her so bending to the new queen is not something that should trouble her and Jon taking dragonglass shouldn't be a problem for Danny since it doesn't have special properties that would make Jon dangerous to her or her dragons.
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But the North doesn't need an unsullied army to keep it on check. They clearly don't give a damn about the political game so aside of Dany being a bitch for the hell of it there's no reason for a difficult bargain. The North don't question her queenship and she let them live their lives.
The recent events though seem to have made lots of the Northern lords willing to cut ties with the south in general, regardless of who is on the Iron Throne. Jon has to factor that in.
I'm sure narrative will find a way to make them butting heads(Davos, or arrogance) but on a logical level they don't reason to not agree.
I keep seeing this sort of criticism in here, but it ironically doesn't make any sense.
It's not "narrative reasons" half the time, its that writing human characters means logical reasons for things fall to the wayside because humans frequently ignore logic, disagree about logic, and of course are too stupid sometimes to follow logic.
What is logical is that what is logical will rarely be followed. -
But the North doesn't need an unsullied army to keep it on check. They clearly don't give a damn about the political game so aside of Dany being a bitch for the hell of it there's no reason for a difficult bargain. The North don't question her queenship and she let them live their lives.
Sure, assuming a peaceful transition the Unsullied wouldn't be needed. But "young conquering queen with her eunuch slave army and horde of barbarians" doesn't exactly play well before the minor lord's and common folk, does it? Jon's already been killed once for making an unpopular alliance.
I haven't read the books but was that becasue the cold wasn't too good for the dragons?
Not at all! One of the later queens took trips up north on her dragon and eventually granted the Night's Watch the New Gift (land) to better support them. Torrhen had the biggest army out of any of the pre-Aegon kings, but he realized it was useless when facing Aegon's giant dragons.
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@Monkey:
The recent events though seem to have made lots of the Northern lords willing to cut ties with the south in general, regardless of who is on the Iron Throne. Jon has to factor that in.
I don't think Jon ever demonstrated the ability to truly understand how strongly other people feelings can be or the ability to compromise what he think is right. That's pretty much what got him killed or why he probably doesn't get why telling Sansa about his new decision before his meeting would have been better.
As far as the north is concerned I know the Starks had bad blood with crown but most bannerman seems mostly concerned about getting more favors rather than wishing a true separation. They would certainly love to put their king but I don't think they want to cut every ties if the new king isn't their enemy(the problem being Starks and Lannisters are pretty much in open war).
I keep seeing this sort of criticism in here, but it ironically doesn't make any sense.
It's not "narrative reasons" half the time, its that writing human characters means logical reasons for things fall to the wayside because humans frequently ignore logic, disagree about logic, and of course are too stupid sometimes to follow logic.Another way to formulate my thought is Jon has proven a lack of interest in politics and a obsession to fight the whites so I don't see his personality and general behavior means he would have no problem kneeling if in exchange he could get dragonstone. On Danny's side she only wants to know she is in charge and you are not doing anything she consider wrong. 2 things that Jon should be able to give him and with Tyrion she should understand how little the dragonglass means in exchange of the North with no fight.
The reasons why they would be in a hard position are born of really really bad luck like Davos and Melissandra meeting again in that important meeting or Dany's being in a incredibly bad mood. Situations that has little chance of happening in general. It's not incoherent or stupid it is just the story having unlikely situation happens to have a more interesting story.
What is logical is that what is logical will rarely be followed.
I don't think I make that particular criticism often. Last time I did was with the Dothroki choosing to follow her when she burnt the people because I would think they'd call her a witch and either flee or try to kill her.
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I don't think Jon ever demonstrated the ability to truly understand how strongly other people feelings can be or the ability to compromise what he think is right. That's pretty much what got him killed or why he probably doesn't get why telling Sansa about his new decision before his meeting would have been better.
As far as the north is concerned I know the Starks had bad blood with crown but most bannerman seems mostly concerned about getting more favors rather than wishing a true separation. They would certainly love to put their king but I don't think they want to cut every ties if the new king isn't their enemy(the problem being Starks and Lannisters are pretty much in open war).
Am I imagining that the lords were negative to the idea of bowing down to Dany last episode?
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@Monkey:
Am I imagining that the lords were negative to the idea of bowing down to Dany last episode?
They were worried Jon would get killed. Like the mad king did to his grandfather.