I'm crossing my fingers that this gets turned into a joke in the series at some point.
If anything, I could imagine Bartolomeo or someone of his crew making some one-liner about it.
I'm crossing my fingers that this gets turned into a joke in the series at some point.
If anything, I could imagine Bartolomeo or someone of his crew making some one-liner about it.
If anything, I could imagine Bartolomeo or someone of his crew making some one-liner about it.
I would praise Oda if he actually had Jimbei not be able to fit into the doors, prompting Franky to resize them in a few seconds.
He will fit in the fish tank
I would almost guarantee someone in the crew is going to have a silent thought thinking jimbe will sleep in the fishtank
Thoughts on this week's chapter
When Big Mom went into her Hunger Pangs I expected it to be longer
Morgans is definitely my favourite broker
Literally laughed out loud at Caesars face all teary eyed.. So funny.
I loved how prior to this moment Luffy and Big Mom never came face to face and now they are here.
As soon as Bege had his little internal monologue I knew Luffy was going to announce himself, and the face was hilarious.
Jinbei is the man, and once again the real MVP Brook steals the show. Man I liked Brook before this arc but he has been absolutely spectacular this arc and really proving his worth as part of the crew.
Last week I recall that Katakuri had a Steel Club/Mace weapon of some sort, and now he is also a Logia Devil fruit user?
So he's a sniper, melee weapon, devil fruit user with excellent Haki? Really a jack of all trades.
Excellent Chapter.
All right, another Monday, another day for comparisons! Not many big ones, but lots and lots of little ones.
- Both of the scanlations have Jimbei use the "ocean current lifter" move with the kanji for black tea (as noted in translator's notes). The official translation calls it "Tea Current Shoulder Throw" (instead of "sea current"). Also, Katakuri's following line about analyzing him confused some people; in VIZ, it's easier to understand, saying "Don't explain my powers to them", so he was clearly seeing into the future where Jimbei does exactly that on the next page.
I needed to have that wordplay exist. Thank you, Stephen.
- Both of the scanlations have Jimbei use the "ocean current lifter" move with the kanji for black tea (as noted in translator's notes). The official translation calls it "Tea Current Shoulder Throw" (instead of "sea current"). Also, Katakuri's following line about analyzing him confused some people; in VIZ, it's easier to understand, saying "Don't explain my powers to them", so he was clearly seeing into the future where Jimbei does exactly that on the next page.
It's so simple, and yet it's moment like this that show you the difference between a professional and the amateurs (no offense).
I assume Katakuri's DF is still called the Mochi-Mochi Fruit?
@Kaido:
I assume Katakuri's DF is still called the Mochi-Mochi Fruit?
Yup, still that same name!
Capone's shock-face is perhaps the hardest I have laughed at one of Oda's faces since the face Buggy made when his explosive ball (Muggy Ball IIRC?) was deflected back into his face during Marineford.
All right, another Monday, another day for comparisons! Not many big ones, but lots and lots of little ones.
- VIZ chapter name: "The Honorable"
- After Sanji notes that "it will be decided in an instant", both of the scanlations have him say "I'm counting on you, Luffy!" (so that probably is the more exact translation). However, I actually like the slight change that the official translation did: "You can do it, Luffy!"
- Both of the scanlations also have Big Mom say "Straw Hat Luffy?! That bastard!", but in the official she says, "Straw Hat Luffy?! Are you kidding me?!"
- In Mangastream, one of Streusen's workers tells him to run for it because Big Mom's acting "quite dangerously". Jaimini's Box and VIZ are slightly different, with the former saying "weird" and the latter using "strange".
- Morgans's words about Soul Pocus (since I saw a couple of people curious about it): "That's her Soul Pocus! Whatta scoop! She's going to take their lifespan! She's speaking directly to the human soul's fixation on its own life! If they fear death even for an instant… There! See?!" Also, the speech bubble after that (where we don't really know who's saying it) says "This is crazy!" in MS and "Don't screw with me!" in JB, and reads "This isn't funny!" in VIZ (which sounds, more than the scanlations, like it could be from someone else talking to Morgans?).
- In MS, when Big Mom is looking for the real Luffy, there's a "sun bubble" that says "Monkey D. Luffy! I remember you!" as though she's currently thinking it to herself. However, in Jaimini's it says "I'll remember you", and in VIZ it reads "I will remember that name", so she's clearly actually recalling her words to Luffy in the past, as the start of the flashback words that continue into the next page.
- Bege's thoughts are also a little different in each version, rather like with Morgans. VIZ version: "Idiot! It's a diversion! Does she really think she's going to get an answer?! And of course he's not gonna come straight for her!"
- Though it might be an extra addition, the official translation shows that Vito is the one who responds to Bege, since he notes that they're ready to "lelo-launch" at any time.
- Big Mom's words after Katakuri attacks Luffy are also a little different in VIZ: "Do you think you're helping, Katakuri?! You're my son–you don't get to call the shots!"
- Both of the scanlations have Jimbei use the "ocean current lifter" move with the kanji for black tea (as noted in translator's notes). The official translation calls it "Tea Current Shoulder Throw" (instead of "sea current"). Also, Katakuri's following line about analyzing him confused some people; in VIZ, it's easier to understand, saying "Don't explain my powers to them", so he was clearly seeing into the future where Jimbei does exactly that on the next page.
- Big Mom's words to Jimbei in VIZ more closely resemble those from JB than from MS: "Wait. You decided not to leave me earlier…yet now you're sticking up for the cake wrecker?! Shall I take this as rebellion?!"
- VIZ interestingly foreshadows the twist about Jimbei not losing any lifespan with his words to Big Mom: "If you promise not to harm anyone aside from me, I will offer you as much of my life as you can take!"
- Big Mom says to Jimbei in MS "Make your move, fool!", but in both JB and VIZ, says "You've got a deal!"
- As Big Mom starts to attack Jimbei, both of the scanlations have Luffy comment "she's coming!" or some such, but the official version uses "Hey, what a cheap shot!"
So is the "big news!" gag lost
No he was replying to Jinbei who reveals his powers and talks about its weakness, using his future seeing powers.
Also I think he covers his mouth because he's conscientious about what people say about it and it pisses him off hence him saying "stop analyzing every little thing about me" might have a further meaning somewhere down the line. You can see the stitches appear either side of his face coming up from his mouth. He probably kills everyone who makes a comment about it too.
yup you're right. Has been a busy week, I've read spoilers and chapters too quickly and got few misunderstandings
It's impressive how he caught Luffy, then hardened the tip in a fraction. Well, I assume that's what happened, because nothing else makes sense.
AND @Super:
Luffy getting caught again, really? everytime..
For me that was Oda indulging in plot convenience. Luffy's CoO only appears when it absolutely must. @E7x:
Don't forget Mochi is a food. So sanji can use his hands and knives.
It doesn't look like he is real mochi, or Luffy would've just taken a CoA bite out of him. Sanji could use his fire legs to toast the mochi though.
For me that was Oda indulging in plot convenience. Luffy's CoO only appears when it absolutely must.
Disregarding the fact that Luffy's intent was 100% focused on Carmel's portrait, I don't think he'd be able to dodge a massive wall of mochi coming at him at max speed
Thoughts on this week's chapter
When Big Mom went into her Hunger Pangs I expected it to be longer
Morgans is definitely my favourite broker
Literally laughed out loud at Caesars face all teary eyed.. So funny.
I loved how prior to this moment Luffy and Big Mom never came face to face and now they are here.
As soon as Bege had his little internal monologue I knew Luffy was going to announce himself, and the face was hilarious.
Jinbei is the man, and once again the real MVP Brook steals the show. Man I liked Brook before this arc but he has been absolutely spectacular this arc and really proving his worth as part of the crew.
Last week I recall that Katakuri had a Steel Club/Mace weapon of some sort, and now he is also a Logia Devil fruit user?
So he's a sniper, melee weapon, devil fruit user with excellent Haki? Really a jack of all trades.Excellent Chapter.
when did he have a weapon? I don't remember that, not disputing it.
when did he have a weapon? I don't remember that, not disputing it.
From here last chapter
!
Given its appearance, it's highly likely it was created by his Devil Fruit.
Was Pedro interrupted by Jinbei? that panel of his seemed random.
The chapter name in the official translation is very fitting for the events at the end of the chapter.
I do like the idea of the tree on the flag being that of King Baum, though maybe aside from just representing him, maybe every symbol combined is supposed represent Linlin as Mother Nature. She gave birth to and has control over the sun, the clouds, plant life and more so uh why not? Seems fitting for an Emperor to control "nature" itself.
Was Pedro interrupted by Jinbei? that panel of his seemed random.
It's him trying to jump in to help Luffy like he always does, before Jinbe interrupted him.
All right, another Monday, another day for comparisons! Not many big ones, but lots and lots of little ones.
- VIZ chapter name: "The Honorable"
- After Sanji notes that "it will be decided in an instant", both of the scanlations have him say "I'm counting on you, Luffy!" (so that probably is the more exact translation). However, I actually like the slight change that the official translation did: "You can do it, Luffy!"
- Both of the scanlations also have Big Mom say "Straw Hat Luffy?! That bastard!", but in the official she says, "Straw Hat Luffy?! Are you kidding me?!"
- In Mangastream, one of Streusen's workers tells him to run for it because Big Mom's acting "quite dangerously". Jaimini's Box and VIZ are slightly different, with the former saying "weird" and the latter using "strange".
- Morgans's words about Soul Pocus (since I saw a couple of people curious about it): "That's her Soul Pocus! Whatta scoop! She's going to take their lifespan! She's speaking directly to the human soul's fixation on its own life! If they fear death even for an instant… There! See?!" Also, the speech bubble after that (where we don't really know who's saying it) says "This is crazy!" in MS and "Don't screw with me!" in JB, and reads "This isn't funny!" in VIZ (which sounds, more than the scanlations, like it could be from someone else talking to Morgans?).
- In MS, when Big Mom is looking for the real Luffy, there's a "sun bubble" that says "Monkey D. Luffy! I remember you!" as though she's currently thinking it to herself. However, in Jaimini's it says "I'll remember you", and in VIZ it reads "I will remember that name", so she's clearly actually recalling her words to Luffy in the past, as the start of the flashback words that continue into the next page.
- Bege's thoughts are also a little different in each version, rather like with Morgans. VIZ version: "Idiot! It's a diversion! Does she really think she's going to get an answer?! And of course he's not gonna come straight for her!"
- Though it might be an extra addition, the official translation shows that Vito is the one who responds to Bege, since he notes that they're ready to "lelo-launch" at any time.
- Big Mom's words after Katakuri attacks Luffy are also a little different in VIZ: "Do you think you're helping, Katakuri?! You're my son–you don't get to call the shots!"
- Both of the scanlations have Jimbei use the "ocean current lifter" move with the kanji for black tea (as noted in translator's notes). The official translation calls it "Tea Current Shoulder Throw" (instead of "sea current"). Also, Katakuri's following line about analyzing him confused some people; in VIZ, it's easier to understand, saying "Don't explain my powers to them", so he was clearly seeing into the future where Jimbei does exactly that on the next page.
- Big Mom's words to Jimbei in VIZ more closely resemble those from JB than from MS: "Wait. You decided not to leave me earlier…yet now you're sticking up for the cake wrecker?! Shall I take this as rebellion?!"
- VIZ interestingly foreshadows the twist about Jimbei not losing any lifespan with his words to Big Mom: "If you promise not to harm anyone aside from me, I will offer you as much of my life as you can take!"
- Big Mom says to Jimbei in MS "Make your move, fool!", but in both JB and VIZ, says "You've got a deal!"
- As Big Mom starts to attack Jimbei, both of the scanlations have Luffy comment "she's coming!" or some such, but the official version uses "Hey, what a cheap shot!"
Tea Current was an inspired choice lmao
The difference professional writers and editors make is enormous. Even in the lines with no huge differences, the readability and flow of the dialogue is so much better than the fan versions. The occasional laugh MS gets out of creatively inserting turns of phrase isn't enough to save them.
I hope with Big News Morgans around Sanji comes to be known publicly as Vinsmoke Sanji just for the added prestige(?) and to spite Judge. I'd love it as well if Sanji got to hold his own against Katikuri and that got reported. Though a part of me is slightly worried that the biggest things that go down might go unreported if Big Mom's haki or weird screech knocks Morgans out. Nah, Oda wouldn't have introduced him in the first place if that was the case.
I would almost guarantee someone in the crew is going to have a silent thought thinking jimbe will sleep in the fishtank
Robin most likely lol
@Kaido:
Disregarding the fact that Luffy's intent was 100% focused on Carmel's portrait, I don't think he'd be able to dodge a massive wall of mochi coming at him at max speed
We also know that Katakuri has specifically honed his observation haki to the limit, and we've been given hints that the person with the stronger observation haki has the advantage in an exchange of blows via projecting or hiding intent (it's not just a binary all-or-nothing intent prediction, or else all haki-empowered battles would be 100% successful dodging).
The explanation for Sanji being able to dodge Katakuri's bullet despite Katakuri's haki is that the bullet itself (unattached to Katakuri) was moving too slowly so Sanji's haki was able to catch up barely in time.
Tea Current was an inspired choice lmao
For real, I guess it's about time I give Viz money again, if they have a translator able to deliver that level of original pun.
Also, once again Mangastream is a pile of crap with no excuse for their elitism surrounding their "dogtooth" garbage.
Bit late in saying this but… sigh... okay. I'm still not entirely sold on Jinbe, honestly. I might be the last true holdout on the Fish Train, but so be it... still, I am a man who gives credit where it's due, and he was really freaking cool this chapter. Like, really, REALLY cool. One of my biggest complaints was his complete lack of a real Straw Hat moment, and, well, this was it for him. So he has that now.
So, I may be a bit cold to him for a while yet, but I'm much warmer to him now than I was last week.
Now give me a place he fits in the group dynamic that can't be taken up by another character, and I'll really be impressed.
Bit late in saying this but… sigh... okay. I'm still not entirely sold on Jinbe, honestly. I might be the last true holdout on the Fish Train, but so be it... still, I am a man who gives credit where it's due, and he was really freaking cool this chapter. Like, really, REALLY cool. One of my biggest complaints was his complete lack of a real Straw Hat moment, and, well, this was it for him. So he has that now.
So, I may be a bit cold to him for a while yet, but I'm much warmer to him now than I was last week.
Now give me a place he fits in the group dynamic that can't be taken up by another character, and I'll really be impressed.
If you were to consider a place for him among just the fighting dynamic, it'd be the vanguard, since his comfort in the ocean makes him ideal for scouting ahead of the ship.
But in terms of an actual place in the crew, with Zoro already first mate (which should be the only fighting-only role IMO), I admittedly have no idea. "Scout" isn't a real ship crew position.
Bit late in saying this but… sigh... okay. I'm still not entirely sold on Jinbe, honestly. I might be the last true holdout on the Fish Train, but so be it... still, I am a man who gives credit where it's due, and he was really freaking cool this chapter. Like, really, REALLY cool. One of my biggest complaints was his complete lack of a real Straw Hat moment, and, well, this was it for him. So he has that now.
So, I may be a bit cold to him for a while yet, but I'm much warmer to him now than I was last week.
Now give me a place he fits in the group dynamic that can't be taken up by another character, and I'll really be impressed.
He would act in a diplomatic vanguard fashion, but more in terms of taking over as a tactical planner after Law is out of the picture (all that Dressrosa planning and extorting Doflamingo? Switch that dynamic over to Jimbei due to how he's handled the Firetank Pirates alliance and Big Mom). Maybe he can scout underwater, but for some reason, I doubt that Oda is the type of writer to want to do that. It's probably why there's isn't a single character that can fly in the crew.
Jimbei would act more like a capable first mate than Zoro would ever care to when it comes to duties instead of just being the second strongest. To the point that since everybody likes to call Jimbei "Boss Jimbei", I think that the likes of Usopp and Chopper will fervently respect Jimbei's orders and find him to be awesome, rather than being intimidated like they usually are with Nami. I expect that Jimbei as an advisor might be the only one who can actually understand and influence Luffy's sporadic mindset to consider other alternatives, although not always for the most cowardly/safe approach. As seen here:
!
!
The crewmate position is totally going to be Helmsman. But he's still going to fulfill a planner/advisory/diplomacy role most of the time, with the ship role being an afterthought like how Brook is the musician.
Bit late in saying this but… sigh... okay. I'm still not entirely sold on Jinbe, honestly. I might be the last true holdout on the Fish Train, but so be it... still, I am a man who gives credit where it's due, and he was really freaking cool this chapter. Like, really, REALLY cool. One of my biggest complaints was his complete lack of a real Straw Hat moment, and, well, this was it for him. So he has that now.
So, I may be a bit cold to him for a while yet, but I'm much warmer to him now than I was last week.
Now give me a place he fits in the group dynamic that can't be taken up by another character, and I'll really be impressed.
This page was released in 2011, you have been given roughly 6 years to get used to the idea of Jimbe in the picture. What criteria has he not met so far?
What is this place in the group dynamic? What do you mean by this?
He was ~just~ really, REALLY cool this chapter? I am not sure what sort of expectations have you built, but if what Jimbe did this chapter is just cool, then damn I would also agree he has barely fit the criteria. Jimbe not only beat Big Mom at her own game and still show respect towards her.
I think the ~problem~ with Jimbe is that he has not needed particular saving. In Fishman Island, he had to break the discrimination of his country. And throughout his other apperances he has been helping(War and WCI) more than getting help. Is this an issue, I think it is a fresh mix from the others.
[Hide][/hide]
@Tamiel:
What is this place in the group dynamic? What do you mean by this?
I assume it's how they act socially unique in the crew. Not their actual crew position or powers, but unique interactions with everyone in general. Like how Nami can be bossy, Sanji can act as an improvisational lone wolf, etc.
Every ship should have a name rater.
But, but there are three perverts in the crew and one of them is not Sanji.
@Tamiel:
What is this place in the group dynamic? What do you mean by this?
What Count Mario said. Like, how Zoro tends to be the stoic one, while Brook's more wacky, Usopp's the coward… stuff like that. Where I'm skeptical is how exactly he fits into that, and if there's really much he's needed to do.
And to address your other points, I get that he's had other meaningful moments in the story before this, his scene with Luffy Post-Marineford being the strongest example, but that was more of a mentor-type moment, rather than being one of the group. This chapter was the first time he actually felt like he was part of the team rather than being somehow above it, which he was really lacking in before. Almost other Straw Hat had a moment like this around the time they joined, and this chapter was Jinbe's.
@Count:
The crewmate position is totally going to be Helmsman. But he's still going to fulfill a planner/advisory/diplomacy role most of the time, with the ship role being an afterthought like how Brook is the musician.
I get how he seems to be taking the tactician angle, and I do appreciate how that's been handled in this arc. iirc though, Nami was already doing this sort of thing before Jimbei came along, like how she did most of the big planning during Skypeia. So, now that we have another "smart one," is Nami just not going to play that role anymore? If so, what is she going to do? Her greedy, take-charge traits will still be there, but if that's all that's left, she's going to feel a lot more one-dimensional.
My biggest fear at this point is, now that the core cast has gotten so big, adding someone else might start to crowd out or cheapen the other characters who are already there. Which is why, if there is going to be another member, it should really be more clear what they're going to add that nobody else has been able to.
All that said, it is very likely that this sort of more mature, experienced, almost fatherly perspective is exactly what Oda is going for, and in that case, yeah I could see him fitting in, as long as he doesn't dominate so much that the crew stops being spontaneous. A lot of what the crew's going through now, he's already been through, and having that voice in the series could be interesting. Also, at this point we've only ever seen him as an outsider, and have yet to really know what he'll be like as just another guy on the boat, and what kind of interactions/conflicts this will cause. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
What Count Mario said. Like, how Zoro tends to be the stoic one, while Brook's more wacky, Usopp's the coward… stuff like that. Where I'm skeptical is how exactly he fits into that, and if there's really much he's needed to do.
Okay, but you do realize that all of them SHARE some of these dynamics. Ussop is the coward, but so is Brook and Chopper, Nami could be included as well. Sanji is stoic in his own way. I think it is a positive thing that all these characters show these traits. Because if not they become just one dimensional.
And to address your other points, I get that he's had other meaningful moments in the story before this, his scene with Luffy Post-Marineford being the strongest example, but that was more of a mentor-type moment, rather than being one of the group. This chapter was the first time he actually felt like he was part of the team rather than being somehow above it, which he was really lacking in before. Almost other Straw Hat had a moment like this around the time they joined, and this chapter was Jinbe's.
There you go, you answered your own question: He is will be the mentor of the group. The one that gives advice, but also realizes how the group acts and will not be over protective about it.
I get how he seems to be taking the tactician angle, and I do appreciate how that's been handled in this arc. iirc though, Nami was already doing this sort of thing before Jimbei came along, like how she did most of the big planning during Skypeia. So, now that we have another "smart one," is Nami just not going to play that role anymore? If so, what is she going to do? Her greedy, take-charge traits will still be there, but if that's all that's left, she's going to feel a lot more one-dimensional.
They will both be in charge of the role. It is not exclusive to one person. I am just confused because in the process of making the characters unique, you sacrifice the diversity they have. That's why you think Nami wouldn't play a role anymore instead of acting as a team. So if we conclude that each character can have attribute the others have, but you need a predominant trait that is present the most amongt the rest.
My biggest fear at this point is, now that the core cast has gotten so big, adding someone else might start to crowd out or cheapen the other characters who are already there. Which is why, if there is going to be another member, it should really be more clear what they're going to add that nobody else has been able to.
I see Jimbe as being in the advisory position of the crew, like we've seen with Vito. If there is a new member after him, they would just need another fighter specialist, to make the group full circle. Sometimes we get the royalty in the pirate ship, but it seems Sanji is taking that position.
What Count Mario said. Like, how Zoro tends to be the stoic one, while Brook's more wacky, Usopp's the coward… stuff like that. Where I'm skeptical is how exactly he fits into that, and if there's really much he's needed to do.
And to address your other points, I get that he's had other meaningful moments in the story before this, his scene with Luffy Post-Marineford being the strongest example, but that was more of a mentor-type moment, rather than being one of the group. This chapter was the first time he actually felt like he was part of the team rather than being somehow above it, which he was really lacking in before. Almost other Straw Hat had a moment like this around the time they joined, and this chapter was Jinbe's.
I get how he seems to be taking the tactician angle, and I do appreciate how that's been handled in this arc. iirc though, Nami was already doing this sort of thing before Jimbei came along, like how she did most of the big planning during Skypeia. So, now that we have another "smart one," is Nami just not going to play that role anymore? If so, what is she going to do? Her greedy, take-charge traits will still be there, but if that's all that's left, she's going to feel a lot more one-dimensional.
My biggest fear at this point is, now that the core cast has gotten so big, adding someone else might start to crowd out or cheapen the other characters who are already there. Which is why, if there is going to be another member, it should really be more clear what they're going to add that nobody else has been able to.
All that said, it is very likely that this sort of more mature, experienced, almost fatherly perspective is exactly what Oda is going for, and in that case, yeah I could see him fitting in, as long as he doesn't dominate so much that the crew stops being spontaneous. A lot of what the crew's going through now, he's already been through, and having that voice in the series could be interesting. Also, at this point we've only ever seen him as an outsider, and have yet to really know what he'll be like as just another guy on the boat, and what kind of interactions/conflicts this will cause. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Speaking as someone who only just of this chapter left your side, I'm sympathetic to your POV. As far as your Nami point I have this to say: Nami will still be a valuable navigator and perhaps even a more emotional guiding force than Jinbe's logical perspective. We all know that Oda does fall into gender roles like that from time to time afterall. In my mind, Jinbe taking that role from Nami will be like Franky taking over for the most part as inventor/builder/repairman. Usopp was OK at it, but Franky was better suited and now Usopp can focus more on his actual specialities. It's like Nami minors as advisor and Usopp minors in building - but now we have characters who major in it, so they can concentrate on weather and sniping.
I get how he seems to be taking the tactician angle, and I do appreciate how that's been handled in this arc. iirc though, Nami was already doing this sort of thing before Jimbei came along, like how she did most of the big planning during Skypeia. So, now that we have another "smart one," is Nami just not going to play that role anymore? If so, what is she going to do? Her greedy, take-charge traits will still be there, but if that's all that's left, she's going to feel a lot more one-dimensional.
You pretty much described what her portrayal has been throughout the entire timeskip, so nothing's going to really change. Nami only took charge of setting up a plan in Skypiea, and that was only because the crew relied on her cartography skills once she connected Jaya and Skypiea's maps. Outside of that arc, she mainly takes charge for navigation situations and tries to deter the crew from acting too risky by being bossy. And MrPecans made an EXCELLENT point about how this situation can be compared to how Franky took over for Usopp's minor mediocre role in fixing the ship to allow him to focus solely on his specialty traits of sniping/weapons and deception. And those traits are versatile and engaging enough on their own, and are now allowed to get more focus that they deserve.
My biggest fear at this point is, now that the core cast has gotten so big, adding someone else might start to crowd out or cheapen the other characters who are already there. Which is why, if there is going to be another member, it should really be more clear what they're going to add that nobody else has been able to.
I understand your concerns on that front.
All that said, it is very likely that this sort of more mature, experienced, almost fatherly perspective is exactly what Oda is going for, and in that case, yeah I could see him fitting in, as long as he doesn't dominate so much that the crew stops being spontaneous. A lot of what the crew's going through now, he's already been through, and having that voice in the series could be interesting. Also, at this point we've only ever seen him as an outsider, and have yet to really know what he'll be like as just another guy on the boat, and what kind of interactions/conflicts this will cause. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
At this point in the game, I wager that is precisely the perspective Oda desires. I can see there being an effective balance for spontaneous stuff in plans failing, Luffy being Luffy, Jimbei's plans being open to risks (he's not a coward like Nami, Usopp, Chopper, and Brook due to how he can be a consequentialist if he is willing to ally with Big Mom and Bege), and perhaps moments where Jimbei is convinced to indulge in reckless selfish behavior (if Oda decides to go that route). Dressrosa and Whole Cake Island have both been plan-based arcs, and despite their flaws, still manage to be very surprising and suspenseful. What I want to see is if Jimbei may have moral/honorable quandaries explored due to how noble he is. Basically a more understandable and bare able version of Sanji's chivalry and Zoro's pride.
There's a whole lot of what ifs. But all I know for sure is that I am sick of only having nine people on this crew. I need a new permanent face soon for lineups and color spreads to tolerate another decade of this series lol.
Reminding the Nami used to so all the doctor stuff before Chopper.
-I like the running consummate title for the wedding even if it's a Mangastream thing
-So all the Luffys were animals. I thought there would be at least one tthat would be another conspirator. A pretty smart plan from Luffy. It attracts a maximum of attention(the cake), is super confusing(the Luffys) and is super fun.
-I really enjoy Bege's WTF face. A lot of it because it doesn't feel the need to break the flow of the story like the one from Robin or Luffy's (at the discovery of Sabo) were. It translate all the stupor while letting the action go.
-I like the journalist constantly saying big news. But it's not only A member of the worst generation. It is THE member of generation. The one that has beeen wrecking real havoc on the institutions, that the yonkos should not underestimate and shoot on sight.
-Jimbei moment was great and fit much more as a rebellion of Jimbei. I'm surprise that the whole scare of death was played for drama considering it is Jimbei(would make more sense for Luffy) but that moment he gives Big Mom the sake is pure Jimbei and pure awesomeness. I don't think his style fits as a strawhat(and that moment reminds me that) but awesome moment for sure.
-Does Big mom punch with Prometheus?
-Awesome Brook moment. I loved the nonchalance of it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Count:
.
Brook taking action is merely him having a backup plan. It's not as if Luffy didn't get his chance to try(he simply got stopped by Dogtooth) or declared Luffy could not do it. No one is as committed as Zoro to letting Luffy do his stuff but he was still all about stopping Oars(rather than stall) or trying to stop the birdcage(rather than sit and waiting). The strawhats trust Luffy and will not stop him but it does not mean they will stay passive if they can help.
-Does Big mom punch with Prometheus?
Big Mom punched the ground here and set off a lightning attack with a "ZAP" sound effect, so I think that was a case of her punching with Zeus.
Brook taking action is merely him having a backup plan. It's not as if Luffy didn't get his chance to try(he simply got stopped by Dogtooth) or declared Luffy could not do it. No one is as committed as Zoro to letting Luffy do his stuff but he was still all about stopping Oars(rather than stall) or trying to stop the birdcage(rather than sit and waiting). The strawhats trust Luffy and will not stop him but it does not mean they will stay passive if they can help.
But this is not a simple case of Brook happening to see Luffy in trouble and deciding to help out. He started off his part of the plan by disguising himself as a fake Luffy. And I'm questioning why he would feel the need to do so when, according to all of the planning scenes that have been shown, Luffy is trusted to solely act as the bait and break the picture.
I'm not questioning if the Straw Hats are willing to help Luffy. I'm questioning how and why Brook got this idea for the plan in the first place due to how quirky it is. Why Brook thought this was necessary, because it seems a bit random conceptually. A quick panel of Brook offering to suggest an idea and a quick cut or Brook being nervous or having concerns to build that up would help this twist, which is an awesome twist as I love Brook getting this type of spotlight, to feel more organic than being a twist for the sake of a twist. It's adding a new piece to the puzzle of suspense than actually playing on our expectations with the pieces we already know are set in place, which is not a style of executing twists that I particularly like because it lets the author do whatever they want without really earning the result cleverly.
@Count:
You pretty much described what her portrayal has been throughout the entire timeskip, so nothing's going to really change. Nami only took charge of setting up a plan in Skypiea, and that was only because the crew relied on her cartography skills once she connected Jaya and Skypiea's maps. Outside of that arc, she mainly takes charge for navigation situations and tries to deter the crew from acting too risky by being bossy. And MrPecans made an EXCELLENT point about how this situation can be compared to how Franky took over for Usopp's minor mediocre role in fixing the ship to allow him to focus solely on his specialty traits of sniping/weapons and deception. And those traits are versatile and engaging enough on their own, and are now allowed to get more focus that they deserve.
Good points all around, Jinbe the strategist makes enough sense to me.
@Count:
But this is not a simple case of Brook happening to see Luffy in trouble and deciding to help out. He started off his part of the plan by disguising himself as a fake Luffy. And I'm questioning why he would feel the need to do so when, according to all of the planning scenes that have been shown, Luffy is trusted to solely act as the bait and break the picture.
I don't see the problem here… this panel delivered WAY more of a punch because we didn't see it mentioned in a strategy meeting. That doesn't mean that no one brought it up in the strategy meeting.
I'd be more inclined to agree with you or maybe even consider it poor writing ("writing oneself into a corner" or whatever) if this had occurred a chapter after The Plan started (after Oda starting figuring out how improbable it would be for Luffy to succeed). But the fact that this happened the same chapter as Luffy jumping out of the cake makes me assume that it was planned (as a backup), and that we just intentionally weren't shown the conversation about it on-screen. Hell, maybe it was even Jinbe's plan!
Good points all around, Jinbe the strategist makes enough sense to me.
Thank you.
I don't see the problem here… this panel delivered WAY more of a punch because we didn't see it mentioned in a strategy meeting. That doesn't mean that no one brought it up in the strategy meeting.
I'd be more inclined to agree with you or maybe even consider it poor writing ("writing oneself into a corner" or whatever) if this had occurred a chapter after The Plan started (after Oda starting figuring out how improbable it would be for Luffy to succeed). But the fact that this happened the same chapter as Luffy jumping out of the cake makes me assume that it was planned (as a backup), and that we just intentionally weren't shown the conversation about it on-screen. Hell, maybe it was even Jinbe's plan!
I'm not saying that we needed to see it brought up in a plan meeting. I love it as a surprise. But I'm not too sure about how the surprise was done. There are good and bad ways to do surprises and twists in fiction.
See, you summed exactly why it's an issue for me. We only saw traces of Brook's role in this plan AFTER it started with Luffy breaking out of the cake. And if it was mostly likely not intentionally show in any of the conversations about the plan, then that makes this feel a bit cheap. Because Oda could make up anything he wants and use the excuse that "oh, you didn't see the WHOLE meeting, so this is totally plausible". Good twists work by playing with the audience's expectations to deliver an unexpected result with the breadcrumbs we already know, not introducing completely new elements in the moment for the sake of a surprise. The former works because it's being clever. The latter doesn't because it's rushing to end without indicating the how or why, and those are the things that are supposed to give weight to these surprises. And revealing the how or why after the fact with no build-up before is an attempt to make the writer look smart when they're really taking a shortcut without wanting to put in effort.
We didn't need to know Brook's role in the plan, but I feel that we should have gotten a hint that he was either going to do something special/interesting or see him having dubious feelings with a close-up panel. Just a little something to indicate that Brook would pull something like this, because disguising yourself as a fake Luffy, especially when nobody else is doing it, is a pretty random and arbitrary thing to do. It's brilliant, I simply need a bit of groundwork to see how this came to be a thing in Brook's mind with how the rest of the plan was completely set in stone and nobody raised any concerns that didn't get quelled. I mean, I guess Nami and Chiffon were a bit worried when Bege wanted Luffy to be the bait, but Luffy immediately shut them up to reconfirm that he was cool with it.
Brook put a mask on because he does not want to be recognized by Big Mom. He did run out on her after sleeping together.
So he risks being destroyed as a Luffy decoy instead of just acting as hidden support with Nami and Chopper? I wouldn't be surprised if Oda did say that was the reason next chapter lol.
Jajaja, like that would even matter Count, the man faced Big Mom herself, anyone else in that joint is subpar. Also there is no way, absolutely impossible, that Brook would be noticed more than real Luffy, hell, the latter just went ahead and said, its me! On the other hand, we saw that the Strawhats divided themselves into two groups, support Sanji, and support Luffy. The fact that Brook was not mentioned at all during this part, makes it seem that he was left as a free agent. He could support whomever he seems fit. Although, knowing you, you would say: I would've liked to see that!
Sometimes, I think if you were an editor, we would be at Punk Hazard with the Yeti not so cool brothers still.
I'm personally much more annoyed by the fact that Capone was able to put a 1 meter sized mirror inside the wedding cake without Strausel noticing, but couldn't put a small exploiting device below the table Mother Caramel was, to not to complicate things and get the Pic destroyed easily.
The cake is several meters high, and it's dimensions seem like a small castle of sorts. jamming a mirror in, and then covering the "ruined" part is not as hard as it seems. Also remember Capone's henchmen mentioned that the kitchen staff were celebrating (which could imply drunk -> not attentive)
@Tamiel:
Jajaja, like that would even matter Count, the man faced Big Mom herself, anyone else in that joint is subpar. Also there is no way, absolutely impossible, that Brook would be noticed more than real Luffy, hell, the latter just went ahead and said, its me! On the other hand, we saw that the Strawhats divided themselves into two groups, support Sanji, and support Luffy. The fact that Brook was not mentioned at all during this part, makes it seem that he was left as a free agent. He could support whomever he seems fit. Although, knowing you, you would say: I would've liked to see that!
Then why didn't he just hide with the Sanji support team? Why would Brook be allowed to be a free agent without rousing anybody's attention just because he's a scaredy cat? Everybody meticulously planned this out and everybody has been given a specific role. Why is Brook allowed to do whatever he feels like because of recently formed PTSD?
And how does Brook not being mentioned or seen when the plan has ALREADY STARTED count as build-up for Brook being a free agent? I have no idea why people keep bring that up as a valid argument, as if it's okay to skip out on planting seeds during he actual planning scenes but have a character make up for that by being conspicuously absent in present time when the plan is in motion. It only makes the awkwardness of their role in the plan stand out even more when it was never elaborated beforehand. That can only work for showing that Brook plausibly switched gears last minute if the situation changes, not having a specific role in a plan that was never mentioned since he is wearing a Fake Luffy mask. My issue is with finding out how Brook came up with this idea, not about whether or not he started his part on-time after the fact of planning it off-panel.
Sometimes, I think if you were an editor, we would be at Punk Hazard with the Yeti not so cool brothers still.
Maybe it would be a version of Punk Hazard where we actually spend a decent amount of time on the cool fire side of the island that has never been used before a series setting instead of spending most of the arc in a generic metal lab and the second snowy island after Drum. Smoker would perhaps still be taken seriously as a threat. And while I'm at it, Tashigi could be an admirable character and Monet could be our first well-showcased female opponent for a male character like Zoro! …Nah, that last sentence is just a pipe dream at this point.
@Tamiel:
The cake is several meters high, and it's dimensions seem like a small castle of sorts. jamming a mirror in, and then covering the "ruined" part is not as hard as it seems. Also remember Capone's henchmen mentioned that the kitchen staff were celebrating (which could imply drunk -> not attentive)
Yeah but while being in charge of security, having enough time to make some poisonous launchers but couldn't sneak some small bomb on that table, and leaving that part to the reckless worst gen who doesn't really give guarantees of accomplishing his part of the job…. ugghh.
@Count:
Then why didn't he just hide with the Sanji support team? Why would Brook be allowed to be a free agent without rousing anybody's attention just because he's a scaredy cat? Everybody meticulously planned this out and everybody has been given a specific role. Why is Brook allowed to do whatever he feels like because of recently formed PTSD?
Eh I like how you twist my words. I did not say Brook was scared/disabled by his experience with Big Mom. Just that regardless if he was supporting Sanji or Luffy, eventually they would all be out in the open. And considering how Big Mom is, she might just charge at him on sight. Especially if she thought he was dead.
I agree with you half way that the plan is meticulously planned. Bege's plan has been carefully crafted. However, he told Luffy that the decoy part was up to him. And considering how 90% of the time plans work with the Strawhats, Luffy does his thing, and the rest cover the blind spots. I give it to you, I thought we would get a couple of panels with the ~Strawhats part of the plan~. But we didn't, we just got that Luffy wanted to make a surprise entry. Also, don't you think Brook would be allowed a free agent role. He did steal 3 poneglyph copies succesfully. "Brook, blend in with the other Luffy and support whomever needs it." / "Ok, yohoho." But I do not think this deserves panel time to be honest. So we are going to disagree at a fundamental level on this one.
And how does Brook not being mentioned or seen when the plan has ALREADY STARTED count as build-up for Brook being a free agent? I have no idea why people keep bring that up as a valid argument, as if it's okay to skip out on planting seeds during he actual planning scenes but have a character make up for that by being conspicuously absent in present time when the plan is in motion. It only makes the awkwardness of their role in the plan stand out even more when it was never elaborated beforehand. That can only work for showing that Brook plausibly switched gears last minute if the situation changes, not having a specific role in a plan that was never mentioned since he is wearing a Fake Luffy mask. My issue is with finding out how Brook came up with this idea, not about whether or not he started his part on-time after the fact of planning it off-panel.
I understand your issue but do you really need planning for that? You are on that side of the plan, your captain is busy, you see an opening, you act. I guess the main difference is that I see what Brook did as an improvisation (he is a musician after all), not as part of the plan. Could we have seen Brook asking for a mask? Sure. But shit, how many ~things~ could we have preferred to see. Just not too long ago, I was talking about Katakuri answering Jimbe like that, was not a built up quirk. Chopper's plan and the set up. Cracker's fight. Capone capturing Pekoms. Is Oda priority the bigger/meta plot rather than these details that would no doubt enrich the story? Maybe. But the less he deals with these things now, hopefully the more time he gives himself to go in full detail further down the line. I would laugh if Brook actually went rouge and Luffy was yelling at him for stealing his job.
Maybe it would be a version of Punk Hazard where we actually spend a decent amount of time on the cool fire side of the island that has never been used before a series setting instead of spending most of the arc in a generic metal lab and the second snowy island after Drum. Smoker would perhaps still be taken seriously as a threat. And while I'm at it, Tashigi could be an admirable character and Monet could be our first well-showcased female opponent for a male character like Zoro! …Nah, that last sentence is just a pipe dream at this point.
I mean they ate Dragon meat. And met a talking butt, how much coole.r…hot...shrugs
Jajaja, Smoker and Tashigi have been jokes since Alabasta. But I get it, however it was inevitable. Oda couldn't challenge the Strawhats against strong opponents yet. Even Dressrosa was too soon as he split the crew. I am not power fantasizing when I mention this, but from a narrative perspective, it makes no sense for the Strawhats to lose anytime before Dressrosa. I mean I thought Sr. Pink was enough evidence to show the Mango pirates were not even a threat. That's why the challenges have been handled with other issues as well. Factory destruction, Ace's memento, children getting doped, the toy thing.
Back to Tashigi and Smoker I always took it as, what would have happened if the Strawhats would have not done their 2 year training. I always try to emphasize the difference between what is to have your entire focus on mastering your craft against, managing that with other responsibilities, like a marine like Smoker would have. I'll give you Monet though, but, considering how much criticism Oda gets for his female characters, it does not seem that impressive. :3
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah but while being in charge of security, having enough time to make some poisonous launchers but couldn't sneak some small bomb on that table, and leaving that part to the reckless worst gen who doesn't really give guarantees of accomplishing his part of the job…. ugghh.
Ah that, well I could only say that Katakuri could have busted him. However, I am not too committed to defending this point, but I can try.
@Tamiel:
Eh I like how you twist my words. I did not say Brook was scared/disabled by his experience with Big Mom. Just that regardless if he was supporting Sanji or Luffy, eventually they would all be out in the open. And considering how Big Mom is, she might just charge at him on sight. Especially if she thought he was dead.
I agree with you half way that the plan is meticulously planned. Bege's plan has been carefully crafted. However, he told Luffy that the decoy part was up to him. And considering how 90% of the time plans work with the Strawhats, Luffy does his thing, and the rest cover the blind spots. I give it to you, I thought we would get a couple of panels with the ~Strawhats part of the plan~. But we didn't, we just got that Luffy wanted to make a surprise entry. Also, don't you think Brook would be allowed a free agent role. He did steal 3 poneglyph copies succesfully. "Brook, blend in with the other Luffy and support whomever needs it." / "Ok, yohoho." But I do not think this deserves panel time to be honest. So we are going to disagree at a fundamental level on this one.
Your first post was about how Brook didn't want to get recognized by Big Mom, which would only make sense if he were scared of her. That post seemed to be at least half-joking, but I still wanted to cover all my bases. Linlin can charge him on sight if she wants to be an idiot and forget about Luffy and Jimbei.
All stealing the Poneglyphs proves is that Brook is extremely capable with stealth roles. Making him a prime candidate for a stealth trick like he pulled in the latest chapter. Which makes me think that we need to see the planning scenes focus on at least hinting Brook's value in stealth even more by other people lol. Nobody has said that they think Brook is great for stealth roles afterward, it's only left to our assumption that they may or may not do that. And I doubt it since it's not like Sanji gets charged with pulling a Mr. Prince as an official thing, he just does wings it when he has the chance.
I don't disagree that the rest of the Straw Hats cover Luffy's blind spots. But they always do so in an organic way. Where if they see Luffy in trouble, they help out. But if not, they focus solely on their own thing. If Luffy needs special attention, scenes beforehand make a point that someone will keep an eye on Luffy. Here, nothing is indicated before the plan starts that someone is acting as Luffy's backup to break the picture or be a decoy.
I understand your issue but do you really need planning for that? You are on that side of the plan, your captain is busy, you see an opening, you act. I guess the main difference is that I see what Brook did as an improvisation (he is a musician after all), not as part of the plan. Could we have seen Brook asking for a mask? Sure. But shit, how many ~things~ could we have preferred to see. Just not too long ago, I was talking about Katakuri answering Jimbe like that, was not a built up quirk. Chopper's plan and the set up. Cracker's fight. Capone capturing Pekoms. Is Oda priority the bigger/meta plot rather than these details that would no doubt enrich the story? Maybe. But the less he deals with these things now, hopefully the more time he gives himself to go in full detail further down the line. I would laugh if Brook actually went rouge and Luffy was yelling at him for stealing his job.
If the plan involves a disguise when there hasn't been anything shown to indicate that somebody needs a disguise, then yes, I want some planning for that. Brook breaking the picture was improvisation, but the mask is too random and useful to be an intuitive solo thing in my eyes. Katakuri answering Jimbei was never an issue since he has foresight and/or can tell Jimbei knows his weakness from seeing the water attack, the translation was just weird.
And honestly, I'm getting sick of using the excuse that "Oda will have more time show things in more detail later on". Because realistically speaking, it hardly happens. Unless it's Luffy's fight with an arc antagonist, pieces of plot threads are going to get skipped to fit post-timeskip pacing from beginning to end. I know it won't change soon, but I'm still going to make note of the lost potential if I really like where the story could have gone. And these things he skips out on, at least in this arc, only need one or two chapters (and I think even that is a stretch) at most to get delivered. That is hardly much.
I hope Luffy yells at him and says something like he ruined his big entrance lol.
I mean they ate Dragon meat. And met a talking butt, how much coole.r…hot...shrugs
Jajaja, Smoker and Tashigi have been jokes since Alabasta. But I get it, however it was inevitable. Oda couldn't challenge the Strawhats against strong opponents yet. Even Dressrosa was too soon as he split the crew. I am not power fantasizing when I mention this, but from a narrative perspective, it makes no sense for the Strawhats to lose anytime before Dressrosa. I mean I thought Sr. Pink was enough evidence to show the Mango pirates were not even a threat. That's why the challenges have been handled with other issues as well. Factory destruction, Ace's memento, children getting doped, the toy thing.
Back to Tashigi and Smoker I always took it as, what would have happened if the Strawhats would have not done their 2 year training. I always try to emphasize the difference between what is to have your entire focus on mastering your craft against, managing that with other responsibilities, like a marine like Smoker would have. I'll give you Monet though, but, considering how much criticism Oda gets for his female characters, it does not seem that impressive. :3
Oda didn't need to worry about Smoker being a strong opponent since plot circumstances would make them be allies. And Luffy can still be stronger than him, it would just be preferable for him to not be treated as a joke. Smoker got stronger on his own in those two years too, and he's been hyped as Luffy's rival for years. This is the first time where we can actually see Luffy get a fair fight with him, and Smoker gets left to dry. It's embarrassing.