Also there would be quite some irony in Vergo escaping serving Germa 66 just to end up serving different Royal..
Chapter 839: "I Shall Never Forget The Debt That I Owe You"
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Very interesting! Enjoying all the little connections people are making between Vergo and the clones.
Now that I go back and see the earlier chapters where the "wall" was formed, that does look like a "Vergo clone" over just some random Germa foot soldier.
How much do you wanna bet that Vergo being a failed or escaped clone has something to do with why food and random objects stick to his face, or why his brain is so…odd. I wouldn't put it past Oda for some odd character quirk to actually have a legitimate reason behind it.
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Great chapter. Clones! Germa's technology goes way beyond what I could have imagined. I guess the higher the location, the stronger the soldier is.
Makes me wonder about Vegapunk's intelligence. -
@Dr.:
I wouldn't be so fast to suspect Reiju is hiding something. I remember during Dressrosa just for a single panel everyone debated for months whether Sugar would have a change of heart.
And some chapters ago she was trying to convince Sanji to marry Pudding, she said "isn't Pudding such a sweetheart though, i really like her alot". So we know that her interests lie in that marriage as well. In all likelihood her ambiguous behaviors are just part of her character.
For the sake of balancing, I doubt entire family is completely bad. At least one or two of them need to have some redeeming qualities.
Oda is taking a lot of effort to show Reiju's reactions like almost every time Sanji says something normal (as opposed to his brothers). Those are wasted panels if there isn't any deeper meaning.
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Compared to her brothers she looks almost good, yes. But I doubt that she served in a hospital or saved kittens with this costume of hers.
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How I see it ending: (unless he is disgusted by her third eye) at some point Sanji will promise to marry Pudding once his captain has become the PK, and Big Mom will make peace with the SH (they will help defeat Kaidou on Zou).
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I've been thinking about how BM's able to have so much information regarding Sanji's past as well as the Sanji's rescue party: what if she has someone with her that tells her stuff about whomever she needs to know about? Think Sugar-like broken hax fruit but, instead of toy-turning + dissapear from memory, it's info-gathering + whatever else Oda comes up with.
Obviously, "nobody knows" about this fruit user, much like "nobody knew" about Sugar, which is why Sugar was so dangerous in the 1st place.
She knows stuff about Sanji even the other strawhats don't know, such as his lineage as well as where he was during time-skip. It would also explain how BM can pose a threat to anyone of a specific individual's aquantancies: in this specific case, Baratie's head chef Zeff.
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Soldiers in the mid row seem "fatter" than the others so I think they are the ones used as a barrier. We also know Vinsmokes are producing three types of clones so maybe each row is used to create or store each one of these types.
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Next week we should get info dump on Germa army creations- history of Germas sience and so on.
I cannot wait for more info if it will really be that Vergo is connected to old Germa.
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What is this fascination with Vergo? I've never understood why people are so desperate for him to be brought back. He was a boring villain in Punk Hazard and would be a boring villain now.
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Soldiers in the mid row seem "fatter" than the others so I think they are the ones used as a barrier. We also know Vinsmokes are producing three types of clones so maybe each row is used to create or store each one of these types.
There could be more than 3 different types. Not only the Pyramide in the room Center has clone-pods, also the outer walls in the Background.
We Need more than just one flashback to cover all the mysteries.
-How did Sanji escape from his Family?
-When did G66 lost their reign over North blue?BM's Intel is the only Thing precious to Judge right now IMO. He could assassinate/blackmail any king in the North Blue with the help of her network.
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What is this fascination with Vergo? I've never understood why people are so desperate for him to be brought back. He was a boring villain in Punk Hazard and would be a boring villain now.
He seemed to have upper hand in fight with one of main protagonists and was left in Schrodinger state - he is neither dead or alive. Its clear that people would like to see what happened to him.
There seem to be some sort of unfinished business with him-kind of feeling. At least for me and few people that I seen feeling same. -
Yeah you convinced me that Vergo is a clone or worked for Germa, Oda does not make these connections randomly. Perhaps Sanji recognised the "Vergos" in those pods and that's why he was so surprised (apart from seeing that room). I also think that, in case the siblings are Judge's clones, Sanji's creation went bad and that's why he is the "good" sibling and why he was weak as a child.
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Yeah you convinced me that Vergo is a clone or worked for Germa, Oda does not make these connections randomly. Perhaps Sanji recognised the "Vergos" in those pods and that's why he was so surprised (apart from seeing that room). I also think that, in case the siblings are Judge's clones, Sanji's creation went bad and that's why he is the "good" sibling and why he was weak as a child.
Oda once said that if Strawhats were animals then Sanji would be a duck. Probably meaning temper. At same time it would fit with
Sanji being ugly duckling growing into swan. Strawhats being his swans.
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He seemed to have upper hand in fight with one of main protagonists and was left in Schrodinger state - he is neither dead or alive. Its clear that people would like to see what happened to him.
There seem to be some sort of unfinished business with him-kind of feeling. At least for me and few people that I seen feeling same.I suppose that makes sense. But from what I remember the lab on Punk Hazard sort of blew up. Granted, you shouldn't assume a One Piece character is dead unless you see them get blown up, decapitated or fall dead. But I feel if Vergo was alive, we would have seen him at this point.
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They know sanji was there pekoms told luffy as i remember
Yeah, but HOW did they find that out? Kuma knew it, maybe Ray and Shakky knew it (if Kuma told them, which I doubt thanks to Kuma's lack of talking). Iva knew it and the Newkama knew it. The only way to find that out, was to spot him @ SA, when he was brought there by the Newkamas. There had to be a spy on either Kamabakka KD or SA to know this.
Or BM really has an underling who can spot any Person in the world thanks to an ability. Would be KIND OF similar to the ability Viola posessed, but more powerful, since it obviously had no geographical Limits.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But tbh: maybe it is really just a coincidence that some of the clones look (and behave) like Vergo. Cosette for example has quite the same hair as Rebecca.
On the other hand, maybe G66 sold Vergo to Trebol in Exchange for one of his DFs. He had quite the good black market Business with em. -
Yeah, but HOW did they find that out? Kuma knew it, maybe Ray and Shakky knew it (if Kuma told them, which I doubt thanks to Kuma's lack of talking). Iva knew it and the Newkama knew it. The only way to find that out, was to spot him @ SA, when he was brought there by the Newkamas. There had to be a spy on either Kamabakka KD or SA to know this.
Or BM really has an underling who can spot any Person in the world thanks to an ability. Would be KIND OF similar to the ability Viola posessed, but more powerful, since it obviously had no geographical Limits.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But tbh: maybe it is really just a coincidence that some of the clones look (and behave) like Vergo. Cosette for example has quite the same hair as Rebecca.
On the other hand, maybe G66 sold Vergo to Trebol in Exchange for one of his DFs. He had quite the good black market Business with em.I had same idea about Trebol buying one of Germa kid soldiers in exchange for devil fruit as he was hinted to be specialist/big fish when it comes to black market of Devil Fruits. Its easy for Oda to tie him to other characters from North Blue using his DF black market thing.
I imagine that Vergo could have been given DF same as Doflamingo. If Vergo is Germa 66 creation or his orgin is connected to them then him having upper hand(leg?) in short fight with Sanji doesnt go so well with me, if he would have some sort of boosting power from Trebol than it would be easier to cope with for me.
One way or the other Oda will finish up this arc with showing Sanji power ups at end of the arc so we can be confident in him fighting Kaido commander in not so far off future. We also might see what Sanji would have used if his fight with Vergo would continue.
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I had same idea about Trebol buying one of Germa kid soldiers in exchange for devil fruit as he was hinted to be specialist/big fish when it comes to black market of Devil Fruits. Its easy for Oda to tie him to other characters from North Blue using his DF black market thing.
I imagine that Vergo could have been given DF same as Doflamingo. If Vergo is Germa 66 creation or his orgin is connected to them then him having upper hand(leg?) in short fight with Sanji doesnt go so well with me, if he would have some sort of boosting power from Trebol than it would be easier to cope with for me.
One way or the other Oda will finish up this arc with showing Sanji power ups at end of the arc so we can be confident in him fighting Kaido commander in not so far off future. We also might see what Sanji would have used if his fight with Vergo would continue.
This leads to an OP-ethical question: can clones have a DF/are they able to eat a DF? Probably, if items can "eat" DFs, then why not clones of humans. But honestly I doubt that Vergo ever had an ability, cause if he had, Oda would have shown us @ PH, instead he has shown us a full-blown-haki-Vergo.
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This leads to an OP-ethical question: can clones have a DF/are they able to eat a DF? Probably, if items can "eat" DFs, then why not clones of humans. But honestly I doubt that Vergo ever had an ability, cause if he had, Oda would have shown us @ PH, instead he has shown us a full-blown-haki-Vergo.
He could have forgot he has it same as he forgot that he is not a swordsman.
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He could have forgot he has it same as he forgot that he is not a swordsman.
Heheh, good Point.
On the other Hand he could say:
"I'll crush you all with my DF-powers!"
"Vergo, you never ate a DF."
"Right, I never ate one…" -
For Reiju, I don't think it will be about been good or bad, I think she will respect Sanji principles and help him.
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He seemed to have upper hand in fight with one of main protagonists and was left in Schrodinger state - he is neither dead or alive. Its clear that people would like to see what happened to him.
There seem to be some sort of unfinished business with him-kind of feeling. At least for me and few people that I seen feeling same.As far as i'm concerned, he's dead.
Law chopped him up into pieces, the lab exploded. Doffy pretty much said goodbye to him, went to the Island, Smoker mocked him - Doffy said Vergo is dead.Doflamingo: …Vergo's dead, and you know it!! // It looks like you've learned a little too much...!!!
https://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/36990
But then, this is Oda, nothing is ever certain..
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I believe that Vergo's alive (the next cover story may be about Monet and him) and isn't a Germa 66 clone lol. I respect Watch-Man's efforts, but I feel that the evidence lined up for theory are all coincidental, slight details. I know that Oda likes to hint commections in subtle fashions, but Vergo has such a mundane design and personality (besides his memory and food gags) that I can see Germa 66 soldiers looking similar by coincidence.
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I picture Big Mom asking Luffy, Life or Treat? And Luffy saying I want a treat, you have one?
By the end of the arc we need an assurance that Zeff and the others that are threatened are safe. I think that will conclude with the Germa's demise and Big Mom chilling. Like the Vinsmoke could have the technology to make Big Mom's dream come true, Luffy beats the 66 and gives BM their lab.
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Reiju is the most interesting 1 of the siblings. I'm hoping she's not entirely bad like the others who're just evil assholes….but then that she's always smiling and all that makes me wonder what lies beneath all that and if she's far more cruel
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Hmm, this chapter make me remember why I like Sanji. And about Zeff, Even you strong or not, we can't help to worry to the people we care, so I can see Sanji's sentiment here.
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TBH, I also think that Zeff is a kickster beast, but if one catches him offguard, he can be assassinated as well. Remember WB and Squardo. And of course WB survived that stab, but he was an upper beast in durability (he received hundreds of blows and slashes during that war). Zeff on the other side has quited piracy for years though IDK if he is still Training his kicks.
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Reiju is the most interesting 1 of the siblings. I'm hoping she's not entirely bad like the others who're just evil assholes….but then that she's always smiling and all that makes me wonder what lies beneath all that and if she's far more cruel
The twist is that she's worse than all of them. :p
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The twist is that she's worse than all of them. :p
I don't know if that's that nbig of a twist as a ton of people have already hypothesized it.
I see her as a chaotic neutral, also maybe she wants power in the family and will play both sides off for her family to be defeated yet herself rise to the top spot.
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@Count:
I believe that Vergo's alive (the next cover story may be about Monet and him) and isn't a Germa 66 clone lol. I respect Watch-Man's efforts, but I feel that the evidence lined up for theory are all coincidental, slight details. I know that Oda likes to hint commections in subtle fashions, but Vergo has such a mundane design and personality (besides his memory and food gags) that I can see Germa 66 soldiers looking similar by coincidence.
I kind of hope both of them went to Impel Down lowest level. Alike to Mr 1 and Crocodile both going to same prison.
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If you rotate the bounty poster, you can see the number "110596".
And Luffy is drawing Ryo-san's distinct unibrow, which can be read as "3".
http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/839/3672/1"1105963"
"110" is an emergency phone number to call police in Japan.
"5963" (5"go"9"ku"6"rou"3"san") can be read as "ご苦労さん", which means "Thank you for your hard work!" in JapaneseSo Oda is probably saying, "Thank you for your hard work, policeman!"
(Ryo-san is a policeman.)Thanks! Noticed the numbers and wondered what they meant!
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For a girl that was introduced saving Luffy's life from poison when she had no reason to and knowing all too well that they're future enemies just waiting to happen I don't think she would beat up Cosette even in flashbacks we didn't see anything vile about her other than she's obedient to her Father. So no it wasn't her but it was one of the brothers not necessarily Niji.
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For a girl that was introduced saving Luffy's life from poison when she had no reason to and knowing all too well that they're future enemies just waiting to happen I don't think she would beat up Cosette even in flashbacks we didn't see anything vile about her other than she's obedient to her Father. So no it wasn't her but it was one of the brothers not necessarily Niji.
Yeah we never saw Reiju bully Sanji. Other than laughing at him I wonder of she treated him like shit. Then again laughing at somebody being bullied like that may make you just as bad as the bully. :p
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Some people talkin shit about how Vinsmokes are bad villains because they're "one dimensional" and etc…
We have villains in OP whos nicknames are literally Sparking Red, Electric Blue, Poison Pink, and Winch Green. We super sentai now? Those are like some of the most badass nicknames we've had in a series that's full of 10/10 top tier epithets.
I don't think they understand how neat the Vinsmokes and Germa 66 are. Hunter x Hunter had an over the top assassin family who followed a sort of theme (being like Victorian style snooty nobles), so I'm happy to see Oda pull his own unique and cool variant on it.
The Germa and Vinsmokes outside of the context of this story might not seem too remarkable, but inside the context of One Piece they're super cool. Plus we've really only just seen them, I'm interested to see what kind of impact they have on the story as a whole.
EDIT: Might as well point out here, that this moment is very critical imo with Sanji. Rereading the chapter, I just realized that this is literally like his biggest sin, a girl getting hit. And it wasn't even minor, Cosette got fucked up bad. I remember thinking when I first read it that level of gruesome detail was kinda out of character for Oda, but I guess it's just to hammer it home. Kinda upset the momentum of that was killed with the Germa cliffhanger, but I really hope Oda delivers with this.
Cause I mean so far the execution is Oda's usual flawless delivery. Build up the reader's affinity for Cosette, have her and Sanji have a solid moment, and then beat the shit out of her. I'm really glad Oda showed us the royals way in advance back on Sabaody, because otherwise this behavior would have been even more shocking but by now we're all very familiar with how fucked up all the royals in OP are.
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What is this fascination with Vergo? I've never understood why people are so desperate for him to be brought back. He was a boring villain in Punk Hazard and would be a boring villain now.
Watch-man, was and still the man behind the whole Vergo-can of worms-propaganda(s). He got banned before, claiming that Vergo has a metal devil fruit and challenged the whole forum and another user. He lost the bet. He is still a firm believer though, as you can see.
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Reiju is the most interesting 1 of the siblings. I'm hoping she's not entirely bad like the others who're just evil assholes….but then that she's always smiling and all that makes me wonder what lies beneath all that and if she's far more cruel
Oda does seem to have a thing for sadistic women in catsuits.
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I bet Rejiu wants control of Germa 66.
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I think that the most likely culprit for beating up Cosette is Yonji. The dude obviously doesn't like Sanji and is a dick in general but since he knows he can't beat him he does something to piss off Sanji and then goes dude it was totally Niji you want me to take you to him? I could maybe see Reiju doing it but I think that Yonji is most likely. I am almost certain Niji didn't do it but that is more of a feeling than anything.
So far I like Ichiji the best! His serious attitude, however douchy he is, is kinda funny and he is kinda cool. Hopefully we get to see a bunch more interaction between Sanji and the rest of his family.
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I even started to dig through Punk Hazard arc and I see that Vergo has same gloves as Germa 66 soldiers ! Another hint maybe..
I also edited my previous post for one more thing that makes Vergo connected to Germa.
He ran into Trebol who fed him with Devil Fruit Same as he did with Doflamingo just after meeting him. He gave Devil Fruit to him like to almost all of children that Joined Doflamingo family.
This way he created loyal children and tied them to himself for rest of their lives by giving them power.
I imagine we will get to know more about Vergo during this arc.
Vergo doesn't have a devil fruit.
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@Monkey:
Vergo doesn't have a devil fruit.
I won't discuss that or reply to you of all people! You think I am crazy to disagree in such situation and when you seem to have free time today?
I am very interested in next week info dump on Germa army. This arc is more enjoyable than any other NW arc, with some comebacks during Tea Party, some Sanji going all out and solving Big Mom vs Bege and allies it might be one of most enjoyable arcs.
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I won't discuss that or reply to you of all people! You think I am crazy to disagree in such situation and when you seem to have free time today?
But there's nothing to discuss? The character doesn't have a devil fruit. You'd have to be completely be up your own ass to think Armament Haki (as shown in every other scene) in this one instance is a Devil Fruit power of a thing it doesn't even look like (steel isn't pitch black). Also Oda really enjoys showing off Devil Fruit powers in long fight scenes, and even naming ones that showed up for single panels in later SBS sections. But no not this time because nothing.
Nobody cares about this boring character, who won't show up again doing anything much more than cover story hijinks.
It would naturally take someone sad about Bleach ending to care about an under-designed dude whose only quirk is having food on his face. -
I'm not overly thrilled at the prospect of info dumps. So their soldiers are Jango Fett and Vinsmokes are doing like the Kaminoans on Kamino? Gotcha. I don't need lenghty expositions.
I'm more interested in the prospect of Sanji and his siblings being clones as well.
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@Monkey:
whose only quirk is having food on his face.
He also had one where he thought things that didn't happen happened. Like when he thought he was eating cookies but there weren't any, and when he tried to find his sword despite not having one.
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I'm not overly thrilled at the prospect of info dumps. So their soldiers are Jango Fett and Vinsmokes are doing like the Kaminoans on Kamino? Gotcha. I don't need lenghty expositions.
I'm more interested in the prospect of Sanji and his siblings being clones as well.
Wouldn't they look more similar though. I guess they could be different types of clones but wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of them being royalty and above the commoners? I mean they are essentially killing their own kind to save themselves from an attack. It'd be harder to get behind then someone who thinks that they are above everyone.
I think that everyone but Sanji and maybe Reiju are cyborgs. Yoni's face being repaired and the high techness of the vin smokes makes me think it would be weird if they weren't. Sanji isn't one because he left and Reiju got a DF instead. Obviously we don't know if Ichiji and Niji have DFs but this is just a hunch and cyborg fits better than clone imo
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Wouldn't they look more similar though. I guess they could be different types of clones but wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of them being royalty and above the commoners? I mean they are essentially killing their own kind to save themselves from an attack. It'd be harder to get behind then someone who thinks that they are above everyone.
I think that everyone but Sanji and maybe Reiju are cyborgs. Yoni's face being repaired and the high techness of the vin smokes makes me think it would be weird if they weren't. Sanji isn't one because he left and Reiju got a DF instead. Obviously we don't know if Ichiji and Niji have DFs but this is just a hunch and cyborg fits better than clone imo
There's also the flashback scene in chapter 833 where kid Sanji tries to punch Ichiji, but the punch make a "clang" sound and he ends up hurting himself. This suggest that maybe they were cyborg since they were kids, except Sanji for some reason.
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I'm not overly thrilled at the prospect of info dumps. So their soldiers are Jango Fett and Vinsmokes are doing like the Kaminoans on Kamino? Gotcha. I don't need lenghty expositions.
I'm more interested in the prospect of Sanji and his siblings being clones as well.
We are still sometime before all hell breaks loose on Whole Cake island so I imagine that if Oda wants to tie more of North Blue history to Germa 66 and add at least a bit depth to them then its the time. Every bigger fact adds also Germa being more grounded in OP world also adds to experience I think.
Every panel we see them it adds to each of their characters, for now its just tense, at end of arc I expect gush of emotions when it comes to Sanji and his family. Sanji will end up earning their respect and earning back respect of plenty of readers.
Btw about Germa- Ichiji feels most mature and while Sanji didnt reacted to mocking of the rest of his siblings he did react to Ichiji statement.
Guess that it is because Ichiji is esence of whats wrong with those people and his mind is perfectly set at Judges way of thinking. That makes me wonder how strong those people really are- I sure do hope Sanji is stronger than his brothers, just so they can eat their own words and by time that arc ends Sanji has his business finished with them. -
For a girl that was introduced saving Luffy's life from poison when she had no reason to and knowing all too well that they're future enemies just waiting to happen I don't think she would beat up Cosette even in flashbacks we didn't see anything vile about her other than she's obedient to her Father. So no it wasn't her but it was one of the brothers not necessarily Niji.
Don't rule it out. Despite just meeting him she could have decided Luffy had the aura as someone interesting. Cosette, however, is just a serving girl. It being a point that the Vinsmoke boys have no respect for women doesn't mean she wasn't involved.
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I think it's strange that Niji actually knows Cosette's name at all.
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and btw germa soldiers look more similar to ideo or vito than vergo
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@Count:
I'm just curious as to how the clones will get categorized since they mentioned there being different types. Are the typings based on different abilities or just basic anatomy differences?
Regardless, this explains why Germa 66 has been such a huge individual nation despite most of the population being made up of men for decades and presumably generations. In such a male-dominated society, I found it a bit peculiar how a female like Reiju was on equal standing with her brothers and above Sanji in terms of her father's favor of acknowledgement as both a royal and a warrior (although it could have just been bias due to being royal blood). It could have easily turned out to be a Mad Max situation where females are essentially used as walking breeding tanks with little leeway for actual societal influence or standing besides maybe being trophy wives. But the fact that clones are available for reproduction convenience has Reiju's position make more sense to me. Although I'm still interested in where women stand in this society considering Sanji's strict code of chivalry most likely coming from a serious incident; I doubt that it just happened because the lack of seeing many females besides his sister made him that horny lol. Learning about Sanji's mother could clear all of this up. Assuming the Vinsmokes aren't just "special" generations of clones. How uppity they are about their royalty makes me doubt that they would "demean" themselves to being test tube babies.
well there isn't really much of a society for what we have seen..there are the vinsmokes and then an enormous amount of foot soldiers that as we just discovered are just expendable clones