Whole Cake made me like Sanji again since it really toned down what was wrong with him for a while now. He also got a lot to do, including non-action stuff, and developed interesting relations with other characters. I'm just worried that's all gonna be self-contained to Whole Cake and he'll become annoying again as time goes on.
Official Totland Thread
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Oda writes a beautiful moving backstory for Zoro that adds deep pathos to his surliness, showing us his hidden depths, touching each of our souls on a personal level
Sanji Fans: rofl, lol WRECKT, zoro iz a jobber now 4ever. Dat was at least FIVE Losses, put on da chart kekekekeke.
Zoro Fans: NO U, ZORO WIL COM BACK STRONG. ALSO ADD ONE WIN, MANY MOR WHERE DAT CUM FRUM.Imagine being either of those people.
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But guys Sanji didn't get accept by his Nazi science family and got his memories erase, so everything was useless for him, not like these aspects could ever come back or anything /sarcasm.
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Biggest surprise of the arc: Pudding was a really great character with the most satisfying start to finish trip in the whole thing.
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@Monkey:
Biggest surprise of the arc: Pudding was a really great character with the most satisfying start to finish trip in the whole thing.
Any chance you could go deeper on this?
Would like to hear your thoughts on Pudding or even were she goes from here after WCI.
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@Monkey:
Biggest surprise of the arc: Pudding was a really great character with the most satisfying start to finish trip in the whole thing.
Pudding was one of the few things in the arc where I totally got all the mixed opinions concerning her. Especially since at first, the initial reaction of what "happened" to her at the wedding being one of disappointment. But as time went on, as well as her actually not being singled out since Katakuri's issues were also a thing, I really warmed up to her. Ch. 902 in particular was fantastic. Genuinely can't wait to see her again.
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Any chance you could go deeper on this?
Would like to hear your thoughts on Pudding or even were she goes from here after WCI.
I dunno, there was just a real focus and change seen in her that Oda rarely gives the Arc Characters.
Like we tend to see some scrappy local underdog come out on top of their problem with help from the Strawhats, like Rebecca or Wiper. But their character doesn't really experience actual change, just they manage to accomplish a goal they wanted to.
Pudding actually changed, and in a believable (while still fun) way. And ended up pretty darn complex because of it, like there was no actual fake Pudding, every side of her we saw had some truth to it. And LOTS of time was spent developing and showing this.
I should have hated the whole "Sanji sees the good in the evil woman and refuses to regard her as a villain" thing… but uh, Oda sold it fully, to one of his biggest skeptics on that account.
It also helped that having made ME like Sanji after two decades of not, I actually understood her actually falling for him.--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I also liked how this arc really felt dangerous again, since the post-timeskip started the Strawhats have either felt way stronger than their foes (Fishman Island, Punk Hazard), or around the same level (Dressrosa). Here there was a palpable sense of them being in over their heads.
It was cool realizing the sense of "OH SHIT" when the Tea Party plot went south and you had Katakuri and Smoothie marching toward them with the rest behind.
Or the part where Big Mom slimmed down a bit and flew at them like some humongous old lady version of Goku on the cloud lol.
Hell multiple times where the whole thing felt really dire, and they barely survived, like the situation right before the treasure chest bomb knocked the cake castle down.It was cool for Oda to actually respect the gravitas he's built up about the Yonkou, Big Mom and her people were SERIOUS threats. So serious that the whole conclusive action sequence was mostly just escaping them barely, with Luffy really getting the shit knocked out of him dealing with Katakuri. One of his gnarliest physical sufferings in the series.
Reminds me of how one of the absolute worst things about the already shitty as hell Naruto Part 2 material, was Kishimoto casually pissing away his super mega powerful antagonist clique. OH NO, AKATSUKI, THE ULTIMATE RENEGADE ELITE NINJA. Now watch as a few teen ninjas cleverly bamboozle and defeat them one after the other. Sometimes Oda has played that fine line himself (mostly with Gecko Moria). But man, Whole Cake? Everything about the Yonkou threat is real and awesome and my friend.
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On an island where everyone just look weird as hell, people draw the line with a third eye and a huge mouth.
This is the first time I seen anyone saying Pudding was a great character. lol
I really don't know what to feel about Pudding. I didn't really care for her generic nice persona but I definitely found her more interesting with her evil persona.
The whole wedding thing…I didn't like the whole 'your eyes are beautiful' & her backstory of being bullied for having a third eye didn't work for me. (When it got elaborated later, it did help me understand Pudding better)
However, when she started to show her yandere/tsundere trait toward Sanji, that was pretty great.
I also did like the ending sequence of her in the alleyway. It make me feel a bit of sympathy for her character. -
I feel like Doflamingo was worse offender for the akatsuki trophy for incompetence.
Moria was about to win by being a lazy fuck (well, he'd have to mop up Franky, Usopp, Chopper, Brook and Nami the next day, without key members of the zombie army), but decided to go zombie Asgard and fail miserably.
Doffy was screwed from the moment sugar was compromised, and his whole thing was "plans upon plans upon plans" whatever he managed to do to Luffy and Law, there were still Fujitora, Burgess AND Sabo around, ready to pounce depending on how things shaped up. That battle was for Dressrosa survival, because Doffy had already lost.
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As a long-time Sanji fan, I also think this arc is one of the best things to ever happen to the character.
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On an island where everyone just look weird as hell, people draw the line with a third eye and a huge mouth.
I mean have you seen the real world or hell america.
People have and will always autrosie something for being different and remeber that the three eyed tribe really isn't common knowledge.
So while even in Totland fishman, Minks and such are common and considered normal even though in the OP world they still face discrimination, Pudding is abnormal too them even though as a reader in our world she would be the most normal.
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I got the feeling at least with Katakuri's flashback since he's such an old son, that Big Mom didn't have Totland back then and they were probably sailing around random islands a lot. So at least in his case the kids he was being mocked by weren't used to stranger body stuff.
Doesn't really cover a much much younger daughter like Pudding though.
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@Monkey:
I got the feeling at least with Katakuri's flashback since he's such an old son, that Big Mom didn't have Totland back then and they were probably sailing around random islands a lot. So at least in his case the kids he was being mocked by weren't used to stranger body stuff.
Doesn't really cover a much much younger daughter like Pudding though.
Do you consder Big Mom ate her siblings(and Carmel) in the flashback?
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Do you consder Big Mom ate her siblings(and Carmel) in the flashback?
She got Carmel's devil fruit so yeah.
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Wait are people still think she didn't eat her at the very least?
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It's more like people think there's a chance that Oda might be misdirecting us for some reason (I don't think so).
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Wait are people still think she didn't eat her at the very least?
I mean people think Mother Caramel is still alive somehow inside controlling Big Mom.
Or that Pudding erased Sanji's memories of the kiss because they think that Pudding thinks Sanji loves Nami or some shit.
Never underestimate fans.
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@Monkey:
She got Carmel's devil fruit so yeah.
Wait are people still think she didn't eat her at the very least?
I always interpreted that she did and it accentuates the whole Big Mom is a monster that doesn't know it. But back when it happened some supposed maybe CP0 got involved and I wanted a fresh opinion considering Monkey just read the full arc
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@Monkey:
Sanji's portrayal as …...interesting? Likable? Sympathetic? More than a horny fiery foot?
My problem with the cake thing isn't the cake being made. It's why it was was made. Sanji sold it as a way to take care of Big Mom. To me it would have been more in line with the message if Sanji didn't need to make the cake to help the crew but chose to do it because Big Mom is starving and he can't let people be hungry. It plays into both his kindness and his passion for cooking which seems to have been Oda intention.
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My problem with the cake thing isn't the cake being made. It's why it was was made. Sanji sold it as a way to take care of Big Mom. To me it would have been more in line with the message if Sanji didn't need to make the cake to help the crew but chose to do it because Big Mom is starving and he can't let people be hungry. It plays into both his kindness and his passion for cooking which seems to have been Oda intention.
We did see a few moments while he was making it where he expressed happiness at how much it would satisfy her.
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Do you consder Big Mom ate her siblings(and Carmel) in the flashback?
This might be the key to her downfall.
Until now she has been only vulnerable if the pic of Carmel was touched/broken.
Now if she finds out she is the one responsible for Carmel's (and the others') "disappearance", she might become vulnerable permanently.
The other Option is that her childish, naive personality keeps denying it. -
@Monkey:
Ok so I finished a big collected reread of this arc. And uh what the heck were a bunch of people talking about with Sanji "being lame" in this arc.
This was the best Sanji arc since maybe the cool stuff he did on the train at Water7 lol.
He got character development, emotional scenes, twists on old cliches, kicked some asses, did cool non-action things….
I've really never liked Sanji much, but this arc made me grow a lot toward him as a reader. Finally REALLY understanding how he fits in the Strawhat trope of being an outcast/outsider being part of that.This should theoretically have been the holy grail for Sanji fans short of when we find All Blue, yet people were talking like it was the total opposite???
Someone help me understand.
As I posted before your post, the main thing abiut Sanji's situation was that his struggle lacked impact to understand the severity of the situation. Yes, on paper I understand it was dire, but Sanji's downfall came too easily. I would inagine he would have tried to resist more before doing so.
Then, how the issues were solved, also did not help the mindset I had. Like the cuffs being fake. Underwhelming.
And in terms of character development, I fail too see that happening. As in, what has changed now, that would make Sanji fight back if let's say Big Mom threatened Zeff?
Of course, I expect/ed some of these issues, like Sanji's willingness to give up be confronted with the full crew at Wano. That might not be the case anymore, we'll see.
I think the main problem is that I expected Sanji to display his loyalty like Jimbe did.
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I didn't know where to post this so I'll post it here, this is my guess on the Charlotte Family list and also some of the placements are random.[hide]
[/hide]That's quite the good work. I'd just Switch daughter no.4 with daughter no. 2. Your 4th daughter here Looks like a mix of Compote and Amande, so I'd put her right between those two.
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Still the biggest weakness this arc overall are the Vinsmokes
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Still the biggest weakness this arc overall are the Vinsmokes
They were good, but they lacked a strong second act aside from nice moments. The transition from bad guys to allies was sloppy and too sudden.
And the brothers especially were inconsistently characterized. -
There was no sloppy transition. Just people thinking they are the real villains in yonkou arc lol while yonko turns into ally, that was just stupid. First thing they do when meeting SHs is save luffy's life. Bad guys right there.
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@uniaka:
There was no sloppy transition. Just people thinking they are the real villains in yonkou arc lol while yonko turns into ally, that was just stupid. First thing they do when meeting SHs is save luffy's life. Bad guys right there.
Did you just ignore that was really only Reiju and that Yonji would have just left?
Or what the brothers did when they came back, or Judge, or beating a woman nearly to death just to get at Sanji?
Oh wait look at who I'm responding too just ignore the other stuff.
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Did you just ignore that was really only Reiju and that Yonji would have just left?
Or what the brothers did when they came back, or Judge, or beating a woman nearly to death just to get at Sanji?
Oh wait look at who I'm responding too just ignore the other stuff.
In case you forgot, yonji was born not to feel emotions or anything. And still didn't stop reiju. Reminder that even straw hats killed, so if you don't have problem with that, why with vinsmokes.
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@uniaka:
In case you forgot, yonji was born not to feel emotions or anything. And still didn't stop reiju. Reminder that even straw hats killed, so if you don't have problem with that, why with vinsmokes.
Which strawhats?
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Robin. And even grand fleet members.
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@Big:
Wasn't it implied that at least Zoro has already killed people?
Don't think so and even then Zoro is far an out a different person.
Closest would be Franky or Robin.
Franky warship never did kill anyone just used to frame Tom but Franky feels immense guilt that and wasen't even his intention.
Robin considering her history was all for survival and shit.
Again context is key and not shitty whataboutism like Uniaka trying to get when I never mentioned killing.
I mean I will wait for the strawhats performing inhumane experiments on kids, making people for the sole purpose to serve and die for you, family abuse including routine beatings encouraged at worst and turning a blind eye at best, kill an man in cold blood as he cries about the family they killed, like i said beating a woman for no other reason then to get some other person mad.
No they were never portrayed as bad guys at any point, they are up there with moral upstanding people like Doflamingo, CP-9 or republicans.
But again I should have expected it considering the poster.
Though it could be worse, the poster could have argued its actually Sanjis fault Cosette was beaten nearly to death and that Niji isn't responsible in any way.
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@Monkey:
They were good, but they lacked a strong second act aside from nice moments. The transition from bad guys to allies was sloppy and too sudden.
And the brothers especially were inconsistently characterized.I think they were relatively consistent. The translations kept mentioned emotions but it was really feelings judge thought were useless for fighting like empathy, sympathy and things prevalent in natural good guys. Even when they save him they more or less are acting on judges orders and still call him names. Even if they determined he was worthy enough for a suit it still doesnt mean they like sanji.
I'll say this despite their at times unclear motivations, what will happen when they come back and how oda handles them has me very interested.
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@uniaka:
In case you forgot, yonji was born not to feel emotions or anything. And still didn't stop reiju. Reminder that even straw hats killed, so if you don't have problem with that, why with vinsmokes.
Jesus christ lol.
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@Big:
Wasn't it implied that at least Zoro has already killed people?
Zoro killed mister 11.
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I hate the idea of TheVinsmokes in itself. It's like having a boys-band in OnePiece. I thought I was exempt from this kind of shit since it's not a shojo. But Oda really didn't care and chose to draw the OneDirection as the main-cast for an entire arc
Everything else was fine. I don't care if they're evil. I like Jack and Kaido. But those chara-designs are cringe-worthy. They look like fucking idiots. This is exactly why I hated Cavendish at first, but he turned out to be interesting afterwards. Which didn't and will not happen for the Vinsmokes apparently. They will remain cunts and they were born cunts, and as it was written in their DNA that they're cunts
Maybe the only thing that was cool was when they helped Luffy and Sanji escape after Katakuri's defeat. But they got trashed by a no-body afterwards….
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I hate the idea of TheVinsmokes in itself. It's like having a boys-band in OnePiece. I thought I was exempt from this kind of shit since it's not a shojo. But Oda really didn't care and chose to draw the OneDirection as the main-cast for an entire arc
You have completely the wrong cliches in mind, and that isn't Oda's fault (and not entirely yours either). The Vinsmokes are a take off on Super Sentai shows, and a little bit on 70's anime in general (stuff like Cyborg 009, they have 70's as hell anime hair), everyone in Japan gets the joke.
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Killing has never been a hard taboo for the protagonists. The Vinsmokes were villains because they treated Sanji like trash, not because they go around fighting wars for money.
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I understand the Super Sentai reference. It's not a problem for me. But do they really have to be a bunch of narcissistic frat-boy cunts tho ?
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Hopefully, they got the shit kicked out of them and are now Big Mom's prisoners.
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@S.C.:
Hopefully, they got the shit kicked out of them and are now Big Mom's prisoners.
Their souls are ripped out working as her slaves.
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Their souls are ripped out working as her slaves.
Itd be kind of funny if their homies they were in were cute adorable stuffed animals
Like judge is some winnie the pooh looking teddy bear.
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Their souls are ripped out working as her slaves.
Maybe Judge, but Evil Huey, Dewy and Louie can't feel emotions like fear.
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I mean I will wait for the strawhats performing inhumane experiments on kids, making people for the sole purpose to serve and die for you, family abuse including routine beatings encouraged at worst and turning a blind eye at best, kill an man in cold blood as he cries about the family they killed, like i said beating a woman for no other reason then to get some other person mad.
It's not like it's a thing even in real families to fight, it's no different from zoro fighting sanji.
Or how they had it worse then sanji because the experiments worked on them! You got people born evil, they got programed to be evil.
And even judge clearly hides some flashback to explain why he snapped, since his wife sora was clearly good. And said it himself he would never kll his own son, like real villain bm did or wanted to do.
But hey, ignore anything that doesn't help your weak arguments. Now scram!@Monkey:
Jesus christ lol.
Not me, keep searching.
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Complains about weak arguments
posts weak horseshitlol what a joke.
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trying to say what the brothers did to Sanji in the past and even when he meet them again is the same as Zoro and Sanji
Seriously trying to argue this asinine point in anyway they weren't portrayed as evil at any pointHow hard can you stan?
Then again this poster also tried to say there a famine on Wano in the chapter thread so the above img could probably used for all his posts.
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