Chapter 820: Dog and Cat have a history

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@mbaruh:

There's no contradiction here, because Luffy doesn't know how to use the VoAT, or that he even has it. Even if he did, having the VoAT allows you to hear the voice of anything, but it doesn't make CoO stronger. Enel has the best CoO in the series (as long as he doesn't start freaking out), but he probably doesn't have the VoAT.

So it's like completely different than normal CoO for all intents and purposes. Because it sounded like they were being referenced as the same type of thing. I mean I know it's absolutely rare but I think the ability isnt something trained or perfect like CoO it's just luffy happens to have it

[mbaruh]

@Long:

So it's like completely different than normal CoO for all intents and purposes. Because it sounded like they were being referenced as the same type of thing. I mean I know it's absolutely rare but I think the ability isnt something trained or perfect like CoO it's just luffy happens to have it

You can say it complements CoO, it's just that when you talk about the strength of CoO, the range of voices one can hear is probably not one of the parameters, because it's just not something that people in the world have, save for a very select few. So it can still be considered as part of CoO because of its function, but not exactly.

[Adam Fenix]

@mbaruh:

Even if he did, having the VoAT allows you to hear the voice of anything, but it doesn't make CoO stronger. Enel has the best CoO in the series (as long as he doesn't start freaking out), but he probably doesn't have the VoAT.

Enel having the best CoO of the series is debatable, but let's not forget he needs to use his Devil Fruit to amplify the range of his Mantra.

[mbaruh]

@Adam:

Enel having the best CoO of the series is debatable, but let's not forget he needs to use his Devil Fruit to amplify the range of his Mantra.

At least we can agree that it's strong, and stronger than that of his priests, who have CoO that's good even on a NW level (again, as long as they remain calm, but that applies to all CoO users).

[King Cannon]

@Long:

So it's like completely different than normal CoO for all intents and purposes. Because it sounded like they were being referenced as the same type of thing. I mean I know it's absolutely rare but I think the ability isnt something trained or perfect like CoO it's just luffy happens to have it

Well, some people are just born with CoO instead of attaining it through training.

It doesn't really follow a single guideline.

[sanji''s_dad]

@King:

Well, some people are just born with CoO instead of attaining it through training.

It doesn't really follow a single guideline.

Everyone in one piece has haki but they awaken their haki at different times and some people do not awaken it until someone teaches them about it e.g Coby awakened his haki by himself while his blonde friend had to be trained to awaken it Cody still needed to learn how to control his haki with training.,

Luffy awakened his coc before the time skip but still had to train to use it

[King Cannon]

@sanji''s_dad:

Everyone in one piece has haki but they awaken their haki at different times and some people do not awaken it until someone teaches them about it e.g Coby awakened his haki by himself while his blonde friend had to be trained to awaken it Cody still needed to learn how to control his haki with training.,

Luffy awakened his coc before the time skip but still had to train to use it

Thanks for complementing what I'm saying.

[RamistaR]

LoL I noticed that he tends to do this a lot.

[STP_PS]

@RamistaR:

LoL I noticed that he tends to do this a lot.

This is just a rhetorical question that doesn't add to the debate but… Who tends to do What a lot? I couldn't understand who is this post directed to or for which purpose

[Razh]

@STP_PS:

This is just a rhetorical question that doesn't add to the debate but… Who tends to do What a lot? I couldn't understand who is this post directed to or for which purpose

The answer is in 3 posts above yours.

[RamistaR]

@STP_PS:

This is just a rhetorical question that doesn't add to the debate but… Who tends to do What a lot? I couldn't understand who is this post directed to or for which purpose

Sure pal.
Sanji's_dad quotes people to repeat what they just said in more details.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

About Capone's character, I wonder what are Oda's plans for him. Unlike other supernovas that will help luffy take down the yonkous, he seem too evil to ally himself with Luffy. Like shooting his own mate in the back just like that? That's on BB's level of evil.

We know Luffy doesn't plan to take Big mom down now, and it's unlikely for him to do it since he doesn't even have his crew with him( full crew) so what if Capone is the villain of this Cake Island. While Sanji deals with his boss, Luffy takes out Capone. Also, was it a foreshadow back with Sanji and Capone when he said:'' Do you plan to burn down my castle something?'' that's how he will get defeated?

Aldo, his defeat would leave one of the 11 supernovas seats open for someone else…

[Owain]

@uniaka:

Aldo, his defeat would leave one of the 11 supernovas seats open for someone else…

No it wouldn't. The Worst Gen isn't like the Yonkou, Admirals or Warlords. Capone being defeated wouldn't make him stop being a member of the Worst Gen/Supernova's.

[BellisarioFaith]

@uniaka:

Aldo, his defeat would leave one of the 11 supernovas seats open for someone else…

I don't think the 11 supernova seats are "open". Anybody who achieves a bounty of 100+ million in Paradise is considered to be a "supernova/super rookie" ("super rookie" is the name that's used to refer to them most of the time; "supernova" is really only used in the first chapter or two when they're given that name), so there are really many more than eleven of them. The ones we know are called "the Eleven Supernovas" because they were all at Sabaody (i.e. the end of the Grand Line's first half) at the same time, and eleven of them there at once was apparently a higher number than usual. Basically, it's an informal title that doesn't have to be replaced if some of them die/fall. In fact, now, they're officially called "The Worst Generation" with Blackbeard, so there's even less need for there to be a certain number of them.

[Jabberwok]

@BellisarioFaith:

I don't think the 11 supernova seats are "open". Anybody who achieves a bounty of 100+ million in Paradise is considered to be a "supernova/super rookie" ("super rookie" is the name that's used to refer to them most of the time; "supernova" is really only used in the first chapter or two when they're given that name), so there are really many more than eleven of them. The ones we know are called "the Eleven Supernovas" because they were all at Sabaody (i.e. the end of the Grand Line's first half) at the same time, and eleven of them there at once was apparently a higher number than usual. Basically, it's an informal title that doesn't have to be replaced if some of them die/fall. In fact, now, they're officially called "The Worst Generation" with Blackbeard, so there's even less need for there to be a certain number of them.

Yeah, at this point the term Eleven Supernovas is more used by fans than the manga. The official in-universe term is the Worst Generation, which has been used by many characters since the time skip. The Eleven Supernovas was basically just a coincidence that spawned a temporary name.

I'd also point out that part of the designation of Supernova or Super Rookie is entering the Grand Line and reaching the end of Paradise within one year or so.

[sanji''s_dad]

@Jabberwok:

Yeah, at this point the term Eleven Supernovas is more used by fans than the manga. The official in-universe term is the Worst Generation, which has been used by many characters since the time skip. The Eleven Supernovas was basically just a coincidence that spawned a temporary name.

I'd also point out that part of the designation of Supernova or Super Rookie is entering the Grand Line and reaching the end of Paradise within one year or so.

I thought it was more about just getting a 100m bounty by the time you get to sa so they're entering the new world with a 100m bounty.

I think the name mostly got changed since Blackbeard got added to the generation so its better calling them the worst generation than 12 supernovas since he made a name for himself at the same time since he had a 0 bounty before even though he actually was a pirate longer than the other 100m bounty heads.

All of the level 6 people blackbeard recruited from impel down most likely had a bounty above 100m as well so it would have actually have been 17 supernovas if they had not gone with worst generation lol.

[Dranza]

There should be a One Piece series based on Blackbeard's perspective and his meteoric rise to rival the future PK.

[Jabberwok]

@sanji''s_dad:

I thought it was more about just getting a 100m bounty by the time you get to sa so they're entering the new world with a 100m bounty.

I think the name mostly got changed since Blackbeard got added to the generation so its better calling them the worst generation than 12 supernovas since he made a name for himself at the same time since he had a 0 bounty before even though he actually was a pirate longer than the other 100m bounty heads.

All of the level 6 people blackbeard recruited from impel down most likely had a bounty above 100m as well so it would have actually have been 17 supernovas if they had not gone with worst generation lol.

The Eleven Supernovas is a past event, denoting their activities in Paradise. The Worst Generation implies that they are causing trouble since then and into the present. In other words, the events of SA and Marineford cemented the grouping of the 11S and Blackbeard as new players on the world stage.

Level 5 of Impel Down is 100M+ bounties so you'd expect Level 6 to contain criminals with bounties well north of that. However, none of them are rookies in the same way that Blackbeard wasn't considered a Supernova once he presumably got his first bounty.

[ladyhawke]

@mbaruh:

There's no contradiction here, because Luffy doesn't know how to use the VoAT, or that he even has it. Even if he did, having the VoAT allows you to hear the voice of anything, but it doesn't make CoO stronger. Enel has the best CoO in the series (as long as he doesn't start freaking out), but he probably doesn't have the VoAT.

Didn't Enel use CoO coupled with the abilities of his DF to hear everything on Skypiea? It prolly doesn't change much, since he does have a good mastery over "mantra" but its effects were heightened to an omniscient level thanks to the Goro Goro no mi.

I personally think that Fujitora could be the one with the best CoO, he was able to sense Nami's lightning if you remember.Or maybe he just has very good hearing.

[kouch_lee]

@Greg:

However I am curious if folks around here noticed Kinnemon's callback to his description of a dragon when describing Kaidou in 817. That was pretty huge and I don't think you guys have Aohige around to point those things out anymore.

@Vectorkov:

How did he describe Kaidou? I can't seem to find it.

Same here, can't seem to find it?

[herpdat]

@kouch_lee:

Same here, can't seem to find it?

I don't know about 817, but Momo calls Kaido "親の仇" (roughly translated as "enemy of my parents" and contextualized to mean "parents' murderer") in 819. Kin used the same words to describe his aggression towards the smaller dragon on Punk Hazard in 682; Brook asks Kin, roughly, "But why are you so riled by the dragon? It's almost as if it were your parents' murderer!", to which Kin replies "Parents' murderer … that's about right!!!".

This observation comes from Greg's Twitter feed, so I assume he meant 819.

[kouch_lee]

@herpdat:

I don't know about 817, but Momo calls Kaido "親の仇" (roughly translated as "enemy of my parents" and contextualized to mean "parents' murderer") in 819. Kin used the same words to describe his aggression towards the smaller dragon on Punk Hazard in 682; Brook asks Kin, roughly, "But why are you so riled by the dragon? It's almost as if it were your parents' murderer!", to which Kin replies "Parents' murderer … that's about right!!!".

This observation comes from Greg's Twitter feed, so I assume he meant 819.

Oh, ok, thanks a lot!

This is pretty huge, then, if it is indeed the same wording!

[The True Saviour]

@ladyhawke:

Didn't Enel use CoO coupled with the abilities of his DF to hear everything on Skypiea? It prolly doesn't change much, since he does have a good mastery over "mantra" but its effects were heightened to an omniscient level thanks to the Goro Goro no mi.

I personally think that Fujitora could be the one with the best CoO, he was able to sense Nami's lightning if you remember.Or maybe he just has very good hearing.

All the Admirals have incredible hearing, and when you consider that he can't he his hearing should be above the other Admirals. Because he lost his eyesight, Isshos other senses got stronger and that may also affect his CoO.

[HacheBe]

@Dranza:

There should be a One Piece series based on Blackbeard's perspective and his meteoric rise to rival the future PK.

Would be interesting but its harder to get behind a main protagonist who is evil at his core. Oda could pull it off though. I still wonder why he started at the beginning of the Grand Line once he killed thatch and obtained the Yami Yami no mi….

[Bellamy_]

Because he was not ready to face Whitebeard nor had he the manpower… If he would stay in the new world Whitebeard would have hunted him down in no time...

[Screwtape]

This post is deleted!

[STP_PS]

@Razh:

The answer is in 3 posts above yours.

@RamistaR:

Sure pal.
Sanji's_dad quotes people to repeat what they just said in more details.

Thank you for your replies guys I can see it clearly now

[sanji''s_dad]

@ladyhawke:

Didn't Enel use CoO coupled with the abilities of his DF to hear everything on Skypiea? It prolly doesn't change much, since he does have a good mastery over "mantra" but its effects were heightened to an omniscient level thanks to the Goro Goro no mi.

I personally think that Fujitora could be the one with the best CoO, he was able to sense Nami's lightning if you remember.Or maybe he just has very good hearing.

His devil fruit might help with his coo as well since he seemed to control what the dice would roll on with it when they first meet him and because he can control gravity he could use to feel where people are without them even being near him like Usopp did also he could even have a planet wide coo with it and we do know that he can see people the same way that usopp could see Sugar,luffy and law from the long distance when he scared sugar again so yeah he would be better than enel at coo if both of them had no devil fruit and like i said i think his gravity powers could increases his coo range further than enel's lightning devil fruit does since his gravity powers might even extend his coo into space.

[bigbadguy]

WB went to a war with the marine just to save his 2nd commander Ace, Strangely the marines don't think Kaido will go to war with them for "killing" Jack, one of his 3 calamities?

[Torao]

@bigbadguy:

WB went to a war with the marine just to save his 2nd commander Ace, Strangely the marines don't think Kaido will go to war with them for "killing" Jack, one of his 3 calamities?

i dont think everytime the marines clash with a yonkos force they expect a full on war as a result, it was more because they announced the execution, including a date, like "hey if you want to stop us, there's your chance"

but who knows, maybe with kaido being the crazy guy he is, they did make their preparations, like carefully watching his troops and allies, call back the admirals to the HQ for a while just to be sure, stuff like that

[ladyhawke]

@bigbadguy:

WB went to a war with the marine just to save his 2nd commander Ace, Strangely the marines don't think Kaido will go to war with them for "killing" Jack, one of his 3 calamities?

Well he's not dead anyway, so so much for that.
As expected it was a cover up, which is strange considering that from the looks of it Jack didn't succeed in retrieving DD. It would be interesting to know exactly what happened, I expect a fb will cover that as well (more flashbacks yay)

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@sanji''s_dad:

His devil fruit might help with his coo as well since he seemed to control what the dice would roll on with it when they first meet him and because he can control gravity he could use to feel where people are without them even being near him like Usopp did also he could even have a planet wide coo with it and we do know that he can see people the same way that usopp could see Sugar,luffy and law from the long distance when he scared sugar again so yeah he would be better than enel at coo if both of them had no devil fruit and like i said i think his gravity powers could increases his coo range further than enel's lightning devil fruit does since his gravity powers might even extend his coo into space.

No I don't think his DF will allow him to do that.He could have been using his DF to cheat yes, but it's not what allowed him to "predict" which face would come, that's when CoO comes in. His DF is just used to cheat, not to predict the right move. I think the way he was able to see those people's aura if you will is just how CoO is supposed to work, so it's the same as Usopp. It's the first time we see CoO represented like that too, so far we only saw characters saying that they sensed a presence.
Err no I don't think so, but either way his CoO might have been heightened due to the fact that he lost his ability to see. I wonder what his DF is called though.

[hosemisnuba]

@HacheBe:

Would be interesting but its harder to get behind a main protagonist who is evil at his core. Oda could pull it off though. I still wonder why he started at the beginning of the Grand Line once he killed thatch and obtained the Yami Yami no mi….

Teach isn't 'evil at his core'. From the look of his child self (which is my avatar by the way), Oda is probably going to take a sympathetic route for the character, at least for his past. This is not to say that he will be redeemed (which would honestly be a terrible move on Oda's part, no matter how you slice it), but he will be portrayed as somewhat good during his backstory.

[braveniler58]

@bigbadguy:

WB went to a war with the marine just to save his 2nd commander Ace, Strangely the marines don't think Kaido will go to war with them for "killing" Jack, one of his 3 calamities?

I think there's a difference between a unexpected skirmish/fight (Jack) and a planned execution (Ace). A planned execution sends a completely different message, especially if you air it for everyone to see. In Ace's case, the Marines were the aggressors, and Whitebeard had to respond.

Jack attacked the Marines, and not the other way around, so the circumstances are completely different.

[HacheBe]

Just with what we have seen so far Kaido doesn't seem like the guy to go to war for an underling. Could be wrong we will see….

[BellisarioFaith]

@HacheBe:

Just with what we have seen so far Kaido doesn't seem like the guy to go to war for an underling. Could be wrong we will see….

Yeah, if he's anything like Jack, he's more the type to punish an underling for screwing up. Which sounds like it's the case, since apparently he would have killed Doflamingo after the destruction of the SMILE factory, regardless of whose fault it was or who actually destroyed it.

[bigbadguy]

Well based on the story so far, It seems like the nakama power within Kaido pirates is not that strong comparing to shanks and WB, Well we could be wrong also as Doflamingo punished bellemy for being a fool early in the story and yet will kill anyone who insult his top executive which he calls them family. I wonder how will Kaido react if he find out Jack failed him so many times ( potentially will lose to the strawhat and mink and Samurai alliance if the story were to proceed on)

[Valkat]

Come one where is the chapter!!

That week is so boring !

[ladyhawke]

@Valkat:

Come one where is the chapter!!

That week is so boring !

OP was on break this week, it should resume next week.

Just be a little more patient.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@bigbadguy:

Well based on the story so far, It seems like the nakama power within Kaido pirates is not that strong comparing to shanks and WB, Well we could be wrong also as Doflamingo punished bellemy for being a fool early in the story and yet will kill anyone who insult his top executive which he calls them family. I wonder how will Kaido react if he find out Jack failed him so many times ( potentially will lose to the strawhat and mink and Samurai alliance if the story were to proceed on)

I think it could be just like DD, he only "cared" about the top executives,those who were with him the longest, so Kaido prolly only "cares" about the 3 calamities. But even then I doubt he'll be pleased to see Jack fail twice, first at apprehending Raizo and then at saving DD.
If Jack survives and flees (or is dragged by his subordinates) to Wano, then we could see what Kaido has in store for him. But it would be better if the marines just arrested him, plus they have to save face after declaring him dead when he wasn't. It's not clear which could happen atm, for the sake of Kaido learning of the SHs intentions about coming to Wano, Jack should make it and report everything to him.

[sanji''s_dad]

@ladyhawke:

Well he's not dead anyway, so so much for that.
As expected it was a cover up, which is strange considering that from the looks of it Jack didn't succeed in retrieving DD. It would be interesting to know exactly what happened, I expect a fb will cover that as well (more flashbacks yay)

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

No I don't think his DF will allow him to do that.He could have been using his DF to cheat yes, but it's not what allowed him to "predict" which face would come, that's when CoO comes in. His DF is just used to cheat, not to predict the right move. I think the way he was able to see those people's aura if you will is just how CoO is supposed to work, so it's the same as Usopp. It's the first time we see CoO represented like that too, so far we only saw characters saying that they sensed a presence.
Err no I don't think so, but either way his CoO might have been heightened due to the fact that he lost his ability to see. I wonder what his DF is called though.

Jack most likely jumped on the marines ship to attack them since his ship was fine Jack got beat up then knocked into the ocean before his awakened zoan powers could quickly heal him the marines thought he drowned even though someone on his crew saved him so they did not fake his death since they thought he was dead.

[Torao]

for a moment here i thought you said he didnt drown because of his awakend zoan:ninja:

[Monkey King]

@bigbadguy:

WB went to a war with the marine just to save his 2nd commander Ace, Strangely the marines don't think Kaido will go to war with them for "killing" Jack, one of his 3 calamities?

WB had an intense fatherly relationship with his crew members.
Something I really doubt Kaidou has.

[Bellamy_]

Well the question is would whitebeard go to war with the Marines if ace was already dead?

[Cyan D. Funk]

@Bellamy_:

Well the question is would whitebeard go to war with the Marines if ace was already dead?

A Marineford arc where Ace is dead by the time Whitebeard and company make it there is a short one, where Whitebeard just shatters the whole island right off the bat.

[Bellamy_]

Well thats clear… But it was more focused on the question if Kaidou would revange Jack if he is dead?! Would whitebeard do it if ace already was dead?

[Torao]

@Bellamy_:

Well thats clear… But it was more focused on the question if Kaidou would revange Jack if he is dead?! Would whitebeard do it if ace already was dead?

well we saw whitebeard didnt want to go after the one who killed thatch and he told his sons that this was a special case.
so if we assume he deemed teach as to dangerous for vengeance, you could argue that the marines wouldnt be less dangerous to take revenge on.

[Razh]

@Torao:

well we saw whitebeard didnt want to go after the one who killed thatch, he told his sons, that "this is a special case"
so if we assume he deemed teach as to dangerous for vengeance, you could argue that the marines wouldnt be less dangerous to take revenge on.

The whole thing is standing on shaky legs.

If WB was so worried, why didn't he send anyone to help Ace?

I doubt WB considered BB too dangerous to take vengeance on. I like to think he knew subconsciously that he was the one BB was after and that sending anyone against him gives BB a possible opening. He did say he had a bad feeling.

[BellisarioFaith]

Posted by Oro Jackson member `Midora, I believe this is a preview from today's WSJ for next issue's (i.e. this week's) chapter. If I'm wrong (since I can't read this), please correct me. At least, it's a preview for something or other:

[Chrior]

@BellisarioFaith:

Posted by Oro Jackson member `Midora, I believe this is a preview from today's WSJ for next issue's (i.e. this week's) chapter. If I'm wrong (since I can't read this), please correct me. At least, it's a preview for something or other.

You could post a smaller picture, though It has been posted and roughly translate in another thread just now as well. It seems that the story will enter the "Versus the Four Emperors Arc" next chapter. Whatever the heck that means. Does it mean that they start facing Jack? Does it mean they will go to Whole Cake like some people want? Oh, and we're getting OP in the Shonen Jump cover and a colour opening page. And another colour opener next week. It seems Oda is out of ideas for cover stories hehe

[Periwinkle]

Probably posted in the other thread you're talking about but this is from Anime News Network:

Eiichiro Oda's One Piece manga will start its "VS. Four Emperors Arc" in this year's 18th issue, which will ship on April 4. The 17th issue teased, "The curtain will open on a new legend, don't miss it!!" The preview image for next week's issue (pictured at right) also teases, "Facing toward Sanji's rescue, Luffy's group is…!!" One Piece did not appear in the 17th issue of the magazine on Monday. The 17th issue also revealed that 18th issue will also feature One Piece on the cover and the new chapter will have an opening color page. Additionally, the combined 21st and 22nd issue of the magazine will include another color opening page.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@Periwinkle:

Probably posted in the other thread you're talking about but this is from Anime News Network:

Wait a second is that teaser mentioned the name of next weeks title.
Because that implies luffy leaves zou and many people here including I thought otherwise