So much for all the bawling from everyone that was supposed to follow:ninja:.
Why are you guys even talking about a finale? Samurai Jack didn't end because Aku isn't real. Why does this thread exist? Do we even exist?
So much for all the bawling from everyone that was supposed to follow:ninja:.
Why are you guys even talking about a finale? Samurai Jack didn't end because Aku isn't real. Why does this thread exist? Do we even exist?
Why are you guys even talking about a finale? Samurai Jack didn't end because Aku isn't real. Why does this thread exist? Do we even exist?
I don't do to well discussing time travel and even less with existentialism…..In short
Well that was basically the ending it needed to be but geeeeeez was that rushed. They reeeeeally should have cut one of the earlier "jack is brooding" episodes to give that content another episode to breathe and to adress some of the other stuff they started.
Or the pointless Scaramouche subplot. Sure he was fun but he singlehandedly ate like like 15-20 minutes over the course of a couple episodes.
Really feels like it needed to be a 13 episode season like the others, rather than 10. But hey, it was something at least.
! Also I still feel its a COMPLETE cop out to not give us aged bearded king jack eventually using the Guardian's portal in somewhat since we've had a DECADE to stew on that.
! Aki being able to pull it completely out of nowhere was just… what? Couldn't they have beaten future Aku, had some years together, and then found the one portal that was missed? Could still do the sad ending and not have felt quite so deus ex that way.
^ Whose Aki ?
^ Whose Aki ?
It's either a typo for Ashi or wordplay on Ashi embracing her heritage to gain Aku's powers.
@Count:
It's either a typo for Ashi or wordplay on Ashi embracing her heritage to gain Aku's powers.
The second thing sounds better so we'll go with that.
@Count:
It's either a typo for Ashi or wordplay on Ashi embracing her heritage to gain Aku's powers.
Or Robby unintentionally bringing Wagomu's idea about forgetting things about this season to life.
Aki was one of her sisters; Ami and Avi were the other two named ones but there was never anything to indicate which one spoke which lines.
Well thats it, a little bit rushed and rough around the edges but nevertheless a good ending.
I strongly believe that the Jack Aku sent to the future will reach a world that had been brought prosperity by King Jack, only to befriend the Scotsman.
Speaking of him anybody got all the names of his daughters?
Enviado do meu iPad usando Tapatalk
I really wished the show didn't follow the whole awful parodox time travel rule that the Back the the Future movies are known for… because it's like... my least favorite approach at the concept(love the movie, but HATE its time travel rules). But that's me being picky over a time travel concept that's approachable to a general audience, so I'm not too mad over what happened. It's just a shame it didn't go in a more interesting direction.
As for the episode, it was satisfying. The way Aku set the stage for the whole episode was not a smart move, but it was great! And really meta! The final battle itself was also pretty intense to watch, although I felt it was holding back on the violence front. Not that I wanted it to be more brutal, but I felt like it wanted to got further but held itself back.
My gripes with the episode and well.. alot of the episodes after 3.. Was how clumsy and inconsistent Ashi was as a character. Her quick transition from being a sheltered killer without much knowledge of the outside world for 99% of her lifetime to "Jack's love interest" that seemed completely in sync with her emotions and sexuality wasn't a very pleasing one. And I felt like it only served as a motivation for Jack rather than something that felt natural. So yeah... Ashi is sweet and all, but the transition itself just soured her entire character arc for me.
Maybe this is cruel, but her "death" only got a "good fucking riddance"/"thank you" response from me.
I really wished the show didn't follow the whole awful parodox time travel rule that the Back the the Future movies are known for…
Another explanation is that with Ashi being essentially a part of Aku or at least containing his essence Ashi would've disappeared even if Jack killed the future Aku….But we all know that Ashi dies because Jack can never have a fully happy ending happen in his life.
Maybe this is cruel, but her "death" only got a "good fucking riddance"/"thank you" response from me.
I loved this ending, and I'm happy to see this series finish after all this time. It was almost everything I wanted to see. I need to avoid the reviews though. I don't blame anyone here if you feel that way, but arguing about the physics of science fiction, chaos theory, and time travel seems nitpicky in an action/fantasy cartoon.
As for the episode, it was satisfying. The way Aku set the stage for the whole episode was not a smart move, but it was great! And really meta!
yeah, giving part of your essence to a bunch of cult worshipers, who in turn use it to create a bunch of assassins to kill Jack, only for one of them to go good and gain your powers including to ability to open portals in time wasn't a wise decision in the long run.
It was a fine ending for me.
Not perfect, but it served its purpose.
That's my opinion.
The series for me is a solid 9/10, too bad I coudn't see Jack vs Guardian rematch…
Bingo!
Maybe this is cruel, but her "death" only got a "good fucking riddance"/"thank you" response from me.
If it weren't bleedingly obvious, that was the gist of my reaction, too. But with more laughter. Among the last three episodes, almost everything having to do with Ashi felt boring or like a complete waste of time, and her last line about not existing was just all kinds of clumsy. A shitty end for a poorly-written character. It felt like Poochie's death in the Simpsons, complete with the hastily-delivered footnote/explanation and absolute sudden death.
I liked Ashi as a character, but I do think her turn/romance with Jack could've benefitted with more episodes. In retrospect I suppose she wasn't the most needed addition, plus a mentor/student relationship could've worked better.
Heh. I remember thinking from the initial trailers that Jack was going to battle a different sister each episode or something.
That was an awesome finale! A little bit rushed, like as if everyone knew Jack's friends will ceased to exist anyway. But damn, I cried my eyes out the rest of the episode after Aku died… So much loss and hope at the same time... His friends, his wife, my favourite villain, dead.
His old friends and parents are alive.
And to talk about time travel. The only thing that is fishy about this is Ashi not dying the moment Aku did, but that's drama I guess.
I can't believe a chapter of my childhood finally got an ending. I'll miss Jack, but I'll miss Aku most of all. :cwy:
yeah, giving part of your essence to a bunch of cult worshipers, who in turn use it to create a bunch of assassins to kill Jack, only for one of them to go good and gain your powers including to ability to open portals in time wasn't a wise decision in the long run.
Had he not gone for the dramatic irony and showmanship it would've went differently.
Aku's always been a pretty dramatic guy, it'd make sense that he'd want to kill Jack in the most dramatic way possible in front of a world he still believes to be in total fear of him. He hasn't been out in the last 50 years and didn't care about what his underlings had to say, so off course he wouldn't have realized the growing decent among the populace. What didn't actually make sense was why Ashi didn't finish off Jack while Aku was distracted; he'd given her the order already.
As for Ashi, I knew that her existence being tied to Aku's would be a plot point. It just seems that it went the opposite direction; rather than stay in the future with her still existing, Jack erased Aku from the timeline but didn't realize it'd do the same to her. Guess he never was one to think about the ramification of time paradoxes. Wintermute is right, she should have disappeared as soon as Aku's essence left her body, it's pretty silly that she had time for wedding preparations yet only vanished in the middle of it.
Still, the ending was pretty nice. My thought on the ladybug and the rejuvenated sakura forest is that with Aku gone, the new future will work itself out for the best, for the world and eventually for Jack. I still think making the dystopian future a better place without Aku would have been the more poignant move; it at least would have made the sacrifices of his friends have more meaning.
10 episodes really wasnt enough, also sad endings don't make a story more dramatic or adult just limits your need to rewatch. Though the ending wasnt bad i probabaly will rewatch 2 or 3 times in my life. A little to fast paced. My only problem was Jack saved the planet but completely erased all of the friends he made. Secondly if you introduce a female love intreset in a series 10 years after it stopped airing and spend tge entire season devloping that interest dont kill her off in the last 2 minutes of thevseries especially with such an underwhelminghly weak goodbye.
More importantly everybody whovsaid that ashi would be a weak pupil to master samurai jack can lick my left ball. Told u that shitvwas wack and sexist. She turned out not only to be as capable as Jack but just as noble and the key to ending all evil. Wtf did jack have to teach her? She was his complete equal. Hope they banged.
@E7x:
More importantly everybody whovsaid that ashi would be a weak pupil to master samurai jack can lick my left ball. Told u that shitvwas wack and sexist. She turned out not only to be as capable as Jack but just as noble and the key to ending all evil. Wtf did jack have to teach her? She was his complete equal. Hope they banged.
I'm starting to think you're getting sexist confused with another word, but I'm not sure which one. Maybe you just made one up?
Like did you look at all those sexy She-Hulks they created during the STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER phase of things and think, 'man now THAT is progress'? Look at Ashi! Ha ha she is a powerful warrior and so smart and she puts her butt on Jack! Man, wow, now that is a well-written female character. Sexism solved. I think that's gotta be it. You musta read that Kate Beaton comic backwards or something.
I'm not gonna claim like I'm the Buddha on this subject, but I think maybe you should take a look at yourself and consider that maybe the guy opening with crude remarks about his own genitals might not be the most believable or qualified feminist.
I'm starting to think you're getting sexist confused with another word, but I'm not sure which one. Maybe you just made one up?
Like did you look at all those sexy She-Hulks they created during the STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER phase of things and think, 'man now THAT is progress'? Look at Ashi! Ha ha she is a powerful warrior and so smart and she puts her butt on Jack! Man, wow, now that is a well-written female character. Sexism solved. I think that's gotta be it. You musta read that Kate Beaton comic backwards or something.
I'm not gonna claim like I'm the Buddha on this subject, but I think maybe you should take a look at yourself and consider that maybe the guy opening with crude remarks about his own genitals might not be the most believable or qualified feminist.
Claiming ignorance of my definition of sexism won't change the fact that I was right and you were probably wrong. Semantics won't sheild you from the truth. It's like a gay mans understanding of sexism isn't woman being underminded it's more like you poor baby always having to be the one wearing the dress.
@E7x:
More importantly everybody whovsaid that ashi would be a weak pupil to master samurai jack can lick my left ball. Told u that shitvwas wack and sexist. She turned out not only to be as capable as Jack but just as noble and the key to ending all evil. Wtf did jack have to teach her? She was his complete equal. Hope they banged.
It's funny but understandable that someone with such a shallow understanding of equality and, well, probably everything, is still hung up on the idea that all Jack had that was worth teaching Ashi was related to combat. Gloat some more, I'm sure that'll get you some more internet friends or points or something somewhere, little man.
For anyone savvy to the Pizza Party Podcast, here's their take on season 5 (16:00-42:00 or so)
@E7x:
Claiming ignorance of my definition of sexism won't change the fact that I was right and you were probably wrong. Semantics won't sheild you from the truth. It's like a gay mans understanding of sexism isn't woman being underminded it's more like you poor baby always having to be the one wearing the dress.
Swing and a miss.
@E7x:
Claiming ignorance of my definition of sexism won't change the fact that I was right and you were probably wrong. Semantics won't sheild you from the truth. It's like a gay mans understanding of sexism isn't woman being underminded it's more like you poor baby always having to be the one wearing the dress.
I'm speechless. Never in my life have I seen a more confusing sentence than the one you just wrote. It's got layers of incoherence. There's incoherent vocabulary and incoherent grammar attempting to describe thoughts that I believe when properly translated represent incoherent ideas that are incoherent with the point you are trying to make, which itself is incoherent with the philosophy you're trying to represent.
About the only thing I'm getting out of this is that you think gay people have a different definition of sexism? What were you even trying to say with that?
You know what? Don't answer that, please. I don't trust that your comments are going to get any better on the subject, or at least whatever you seem to think the subject is. In fact, you've given me reason to believe they'll probably just get worse, more inflammatory and further off topic, so I'm gonna warn you now: if you do attempt to respond to this chain of discussion, or make another inflammatory remark, I'm just gonna threadban you. I hate to play that card, but we're getting pretty off topic, and I don't think this topic is good enough to stay on..
Yeah… let's just move on from that.
I marathoned the first nine episodes last night, and wow. Scaramouche is definitely my new favorite character.
!
I will never understand the people who thought Jack should have stayed in the future. Aku fucked up so many people through generations. If Jack had the opportunity to go back to the past and undo all that shit, then he had to do it. With great power comes great responsibility and all that.
Essentially, that future was not worth having in the first place, let alone saving. Jack ruling the future does not make up for centuries of suffering.
Well it's not like being in the future would be better for the universe or Jack, but I could see the argument for him staying from a writing standpoint. By the time the story ends, he's been in the future 2-3 times longer than he'd ever been in his own time. One thing that we'll never get to see is Jack readapting to his old times, which would be especially interesting after seeing where the season began.
This is again why I think Ashi would have had a better role as a student, though, since then she'd be able to take over his place and maintain the future that he'd fought hard to protect, with the implication that the timelines diverge and that future would still exist. The way the series ends, all of that's just gone without even a word of goodbye.
This is again why I think Ashi would have had a better role as a student, though, since then she'd be able to take over his place and maintain the future that he'd fought hard to protect, with the implication that the timelines diverge and that future would still exist. The way the series ends, all of that's just gone without even a word of goodbye.
I agree. After watching episode 10, I just feel… empty. All of the most iconic characters are dead, and the show made no attempt to address that extremely uncomfortable fact.
I will never understand the people who thought Jack should have stayed in the future. Aku fucked up so many people through generations. If Jack had the opportunity to go back to the past and undo all that shit, then he had to do it. With great power comes great responsibility and all that.
Essentially, that future was not worth having in the first place, let alone saving. Jack ruling the future does not make up for centuries of suffering.
But it does allow the people who live in the future to exist instead of being, you know, completely erased. Even if by some miracle alternate versions of them exist in the "better" future, they're still entirely different people. Choosing to stay in either timeline, the past or the future, technically dooms the other. But at least the denizens of the past are already gone while the future characters exist now. Aku ruled for centuries of tyranny, but that does not mean you can't rebuild for a better tomorrow. It wouldn't make up for the centuries of suffering, but that doesn't mean the lives that still exist in the future should be viewed as expendable for the "greater good" of people who have already died centuries ago. Life isn't a scoreboard where you prioritize a certain group of lives to make up for suffering while sacrificing others, and I'd rather protect and help the people who exist now then sacrifice them for another group.
And yeah, Jack's been in future three times longer than he was in the past lol.
All of the most iconic characters are dead,
Well the ones that showed up to the big fight and who we saw get axed on screen that is.
@Count:
while the future characters exist now.
Waiting to be killed either by Aku's minions,Aku himself, or some third party not affiliated with him…..like those villagers whose village was set to be razed by Marauders in episode XCVI that no one apparently thought to stop.
Plus going back to the past and altering the future does keep Jack from committing some of his more questionable actions like letting Scaramouche slaughter those other villagers.....and killing those poor goats.
Waiting to be killed either by Aku's minions,Aku himself, or some third party not affiliated with him…..like those villagers whose village was set to be razed by Marauders in episode XCVI that no one apparently thought to stop.
So you're telling me that Jack with his sword back and Ashi with Aku's powers couldn't defeat Aku like Jack has done in episode 1 and at least two other episodes? And those marauders are only in power because of Aku's reign encouraging lawlessness. When he's deposed, the third-parties will be gradually sought after and have their schemes quelled.
Plus going back to the past and altering the future does keep Jack from committing some of his more questionable actions like letting Scaramouche slaughter those other villagers…..and killing those poor goats.
Letting? My memory might be wrong, but Scaramouche killed that village solely to get Jack's attention. Jack didn't ignore it because there's no way he could have known it would get attacked.
And you're mentioning Scaramouche and third parties like there aren't also bad people and tragedies that happened and will still occur in the past, like those warriors that Jack's dad fought and killed in his flashback during Episode XCIV. Every possible timeline with living beings can have its fair share of bad people and events.
@Count:
So you're telling me that Jack with his sword back and Ashi with Aku's powers couldn't defeat Aku like Jack has done in episode 1 and at least two other episodes?
Given how there's always an asspull or some plot development that prevents Jack from killing Aku time and time again? Who can say.
@Count:
And those marauders are only in power because of Aku's reign encouraging lawlessness. When he's deposed, the third-parties will be gradually sought after and have their schemes quelled.
Maybe some of them would be stop but not all of them since that would kind of be unrealistic without some Minority Report esque crime prevention tool or somesuch.
@Count:
Letting? My memory might be wrong, but Scaramouche killed that village solely to get Jack's attention. Jack didn't ignore it because there's no way he could have known it would get attacked.
After saving the emoji family in episode and riding away Jack notices of a smoke cloud in the distance while riding on his bike and ignores it. And only heads in that direction hours after it's too late to save anyone.
@Count:
And you're mentioning Scaramouche and third parties like there aren't also bad people
Wasn't trying to if that's how it looked.
@Count:
and tragedies that happened and will still occur in the past, like those warriors that Jack's dad fought and killed in his flashback during Episode XCIV. Every possible timeline with living beings can have its fair share of bad people and events.
True but as it was Aku was the most omnipotent and awful of those people and he's a good part of the reason the world was a shitty place to live in for however long he ruled the future for. So while taking him out in the past might have seemed like a dick move for reasons. It was realistically the best move considering all the wanton destruction, death, & chaos he caused or allowed to happen.
Given how there's always an asspull or some plot development that prevents Jack from killing Aku time and time again? Who can say.
That's always true. But there was more going against Aku here then ever between Jack, Aku-Empowered Ashi, and Force Ghost Scotsman.
Maybe some of them would be stop but not all of them since that would kind of be unrealistic without some Minority Report esque crime prevention tool or somesuch.
So it resembles instances of crimes occurring no matter how vigilante we are in real life, no matter the time period. Where the only seemingly surefire choice to prevent the potential for evil is to violate people's natural rights of privacy and due process. Evil will always exist to varying degrees and forms in every time period.
After saving the emoji family in episode and riding away Jack notices of a smoke cloud in the distance while riding on his bike and ignores it. And only heads in that direction hours after it's too late to save anyone.
Ah, my bad. I didn't remember that.
Wasn't trying to if that's how it looked.
I know it wasn't intentional, but that's what you're indirectly implying. It's easy to point fingers at bad people in the future to make it look irredeemable as if there aren't also bad people in the past. And I get if the point is to say "if we travel back to the past, those bad people won't exist and neither will the crimes they committed". But the question is if that's worth still erasing the people who are good and exist only in the future. Not to mention if time travel can get rid of all evil, which it never will.
True but as it was Aku was the most omnipotent and awful of those people and he's a good part of the reason the world was a shitty place to live in for however long he ruled the future for. So while taking him out in the past might have seemed like a dick move for reasons. It was realistically the best move considering all the wanton destruction, death, & chaos he caused or allowed to happen.
He definitely was. But I still don't find getting rid of Aku's presence throughout the darkest timeline worth quelling all of the good people and deeds throughout the darkest timeline. They have just as much of a right to exist and live peacefully as the people who Aku tortured and destroyed in the past. It's all about redemption. Aku coming to power was wrong and will always be wrong. It should have been prevented. But now that it did happen, and now that we have people, good and honest people, who can only exist in the future, they're the ones that deserve the most attention in the present. And then there's the circumstance in time travel stories where going back in time to change a misdeed often gives rise to an even WORSE future, but I doubt that will be the case for Samurai Jack lol. I stand by my judgment regardless.
@Count:
But it does allow the people who live in the future to exist instead of being, you know, completely erased. Even if by some miracle alternate versions of them exist in the "better" future, they're still entirely different people. Choosing to stay in either timeline, the past or the future, technically dooms the other. But at least the denizens of the past are already gone while the future characters exist now. Aku ruled for centuries of tyranny, but that does not mean you can't rebuild for a better tomorrow. It wouldn't make up for the centuries of suffering, but that doesn't mean the lives that still exist in the future should be viewed as expendable for the "greater good" of people who have already died centuries ago. Life isn't a scoreboard where you prioritize a certain group of lives to make up for suffering while sacrificing others, and I'd rather protect and help the people who exist now then sacrifice them for another group.
And that's a small price to pay for the world to not go to shit for centuries.
I'm pretty sure those people would rather be different beings in a more peaceful timeline than slaves who had the luck of being saved by Jack.
Plus, what about all of Jack's friends of the past who pretty much raised him and were counting on him to stop Aku before he took over everything? The African tribe? The Egyptians? Robin Hood? Are their lives less important than the ones from the future?
And that's a small price to pay for the world to not go to shit for centuries.
I'm pretty sure those people would rather be different beings in a more peaceful timeline than slaves who had the luck of being saved by Jack.
Plus, what about all of Jack's friends of the past who pretty much raised him and were counting on him to stop Aku before he took over everything? The African tribe? The Egyptians? Robin Hood? Are their lives less important than the ones from the future?
No. It is not a small price. I am never going to agree with that "needs of the many" argument, especially when this is a whole WORLD of people in the future who deserve the right to live and prosper. And it's not as simple as just being "different beings" in a timeline. Many of them wouldn't exist. Period. And it's easy to speak for those people and say they would happily agree with a rewritten future instead of the reality that at least some of them aren't going to exactly like having themselves and everybody they care about being wiped from existence for people that at least already lived lives in the past, even if they met tragic ends by Aku.
No. They are equally important. But they're already dead, while the people in the future are still alive in the here and now, and have spent more time with Jack than Jack did with the people in the past. If I were in Jack's shoes, I would rather choose the choice where I accept history's losses and rebuild rather than have history doom another civilization AGAIN just to save another one.
I deleted e7x's post, but you're not missing much. Just figured this post here would be a cleaner way of acknowledging how he's threadbanned.
@Count:
No. It is not a small price. I am never going to agree with that "needs of the many" argument, especially when this is a whole WORLD of people in the future who deserve the right to live and prosper. And it's not as simple as just being "different beings" in a timeline. Many of them wouldn't exist. Period.
No. They are equally important. But they're already dead, while the people in the future are still alive in the here and now, and have spent more time with Jack than Jack did with the people in the past. If I were in Jack's shoes, I would rather choose the choice where I accept history's losses and rebuild rather than have history doom another civilization AGAIN just to save another one.
Them being dead in the past is irrelevant when travelling to the past is a possibility. "You can't undo the past" is not going to fly here exactly because of that.
It's like how Civil War Peter Parker stated: "if you're capable of stopping it, and you don't, then it's your fault".
Also, saying the people of the future spent more time with Jack than the people in the past is outright false. Only the Scotsman came any close in terms of personal friendship, while the rest were oneshots that Jack only spent a few days max with. The 50 years Jack spent in the future were actually bleak for the most part. Meanwhile, Jack was outright raised from childhood by several civilizations such as the African Tribe, the Egyptians, Robin Hood, his parents, etc., who dedicated a lot of their time to train Jack. It's not exaggeration to state that Jack had way more personal stakes in the past than in the future.
Them being dead in the past is irrelevant when travelling to the past is a possibility. "You can't undo the past" is not going to fly here exactly because of that.
It's like how Civil War Peter Parker stated: "if you're capable of stopping it, and you don't, then it's your fault".
That quote goes both ways towards the past and future. And it doesn't take into account sci-fi stories where time travel is possible and where changing events in the past drastically change the future for better or wise. If Peter Parker could go back to save Uncle Ben, but changing that event would mean that Parker never becomes Spider-Man because of cause-and-effect and thus erases Peter's heroic actions as Spider-Man in the future while many of his super villains would still exist, do you think it's justified for him to save Uncle Ben in that case? Of course, that might be an easier question to say no to compared to Aku's centuries of oppressive darkness as an alternative lol.
Also, saying the people of the future spent more time with Jack than the people in the past is outright false. Only the Scotsman came any close in terms of personal friendship, while the rest were oneshots that Jack only spent a few days max with. The 50 years Jack spent in the future were actually bleak for the most part. Meanwhile, Jack was outright raised from childhood by several civilizations such as the African Tribe, the Egyptians, Robin Hood, his parents, etc., who dedicated a lot of their time to train Jack. It's not exaggeration to state that Jack had way more personal stakes in the past than in the future.
Raised for time periods that probably didn't last more than a few weeks at most, considering how many places kid Jack was and how short of a time he spent in Africa. And Ashi made stakes in the future overwhelm most of those people in the past besides maybe his parents.
@Count:
That's always true. But there was more going against Aku here then ever between Jack, Aku-Empowered Ashi, and Force Ghost Scotsman.
Though for all that, Jack's sword is still the only thing that can truly kill Aku everybody else sans probably Ashi is merely cannon fodder.
@Count:
So it resembles instances of crimes occurring no matter how vigilante we are in real life, no matter the time period. Where the only seemingly surefire choice to prevent the potential for evil is to violate people's natural rights of privacy and due process. Evil will always exist to varying degrees and forms in every time period.
Pretty much.
@Count:
Ah, my bad. I didn't remember that.
I'm shocked remembered it given how janky my short and long term memory can be.
@Count:
But the question is if that's worth still erasing the people who are good and exist only in the future.
With Jack not likely being aware of that it's hard to say from his perspective. But his mind was always on getting back to the past and finishing what he trained to do back in his timeline. Heck it's in the intros.
@Count:
Not to mention if time travel can get rid of all evil, which it never will.
Well if you want to be technical it did get rid of Aku who was literally all evil.
@Count:
That quote goes both ways towards the past and future. And it doesn't take into account sci-fi stories where time travel is possible and where changing events in the past drastically change the future for better or wise. If Peter Parker could go back to save Uncle Ben, but changing that event would mean that Parker never becomes Spider-Man because of cause-and-effect and thus erases Peter's heroic actions as Spider-Man in the future while many of his super villains would still exist, do you think it's justified for him to save Uncle Ben in that case? Of course, that might be an easier question to say no to compared to Aku's centuries of oppressive darkness as an alternative lol.
Let's not forget that Jack could still be ageless, so his presence in the past could ensure a better future as he constantly looks over it.
An example of person Jack improved the life of by going to the past, the Lava Viking. Surely, he would rather stay with his family and die in some random battle than spend eons stuck in some crystal being unable to do anything while his village get destroyed and waiting for Jack to send him to Valhalla.
Though for all that, Jack's sword is still the only thing that can truly kill Aku everybody else sans probably Ashi is merely cannon fodder.
The Scotsman is extremely useful for neutralizing Aku's attacks towards the rest of Jack's allies though since he countered that spike rain (although that only happened after the robots and a bunch of rave partiers on birds got killed because, well, plot). Ashi works as a great distractor for Aku. In fact, she could time travel to earlier instances where Aku was vulnerable, but not to the point of years. Like during his depression. But then that gets all messy and assumptive.
Pretty much.
Indeed.
I'm shocked remembered it given how janky my short and long term memory can be.
lol Same here.
With Jack not likely being aware of that it's hard to say from his perspective. But his mind was always on getting back to the past and finishing what he trained to do back in his timeline. Heck it's in the intros.
And that's arguably a rather ignorant perspective to still keep up after fifty years of briefly meeting all sorts of new people and cultures. He's been all over and has seen plenty of good people, even if he didn't get to know them too intimately. And it's not like the future is this complete hellhole where everyone are getting tortured nonstop and stuff. There are still people who live ordinary lives in cities and even secluded lives too. Aku's reign is terrible, but it indirectly resulted in a lot of productive things like advanced tech is stuff. Not that I'm saying it's okay to let people die for that stuff, but… they already died.
Well if you want to be technical it did get rid of Aku who was literally all evil.
It certainly did. As well as all of any and all of the people in the future who were all good and will likely never come to exist. The only bright spot is that they all seemed to be okay with letting their existence be eradicated in favor of a better future, but realistically, public consent of such an action would be way more complex than everybody agreeing that "yeah, it's okay for all of us to sacrifice ourselves for dead people from centuries ago."
Let's not forget that Jack could still be ageless, so his presence in the past could ensure a better future as he constantly looks over it.
An example of person Jack improved the life of by going to the past, the Lava Viking. Surely, he would rather stay with his family and die in some random battle than spend eons stuck in some crystal while watching his village get destroyed and waiting for Jack to send him to Valhalla.
That's one immortal person he helped. A great single point, but meanwhile, let's ask the Scotsman if he's okay with all of his daughters getting erased for the greater good of the past instead of conveniently ignoring that possibility like the whole show did.
@Count:
That's one immortal person he helped. A great single point, but meanwhile, let's ask the Scotsman if he's okay with all of his daughters getting erased for the greater good of the past instead of conveniently ignoring that possibility like the whole show did.
I don't see why they would care. Being celtic warriors, aren't they ready to die in battle?
Plus, a quick erasure from existence sounds way better than whatever gruesome things Aku did to others for centuries, like slavery and fates worse than death (such as the aforementioned viking). Plus, not only Earth but several planets were really fucked up due to Aku's actions (like that ocean planet Aku drained in the first episode). Would rebuilding all of that be possible in the future?
I don't see why they would care. Being celtic warriors, aren't they ready to die in battle?
Plus, a quick erasure from existence sounds way better than whatever gruesome things Aku did to others for centuries, like slavery and fates worse than death (such as the aforementioned viking). Plus, several planets were really fucked up due to Aku's actions (like that ocean planet Aku drained in the first episode). Would rebuilding all of that be possible in the future?
That depends on what they're fighting for. It's one thing to be willing to die to fight for peace as the ONLY option. It's another thing to be willing to die to prioritize a group that already died over your own group of lives, when there is also the option to still live and proper for a better tomorrow. When they declared war, it was either living under Aku's tyranny and either potentially dethroning him or dying. A desperate choice they were engaging in for their own freedom and the rest of the world. But assuming it was possible to defeat Aku in the future, the question of if they are willing to definitely die, not just a possibility of failure, for the sake of the past is a whole other type of conflict that is prioritizing one timeline, one group of lives, over another than just rebooting everything out of fear while sacrificing all that is still good in the process.
It sounds better if you want to look at it from a sensational perspective, sure. But factually, on paper, willingly choosing to erase somebody can be equated to killing them. And you can't tell me that's not accurate after that example you pulled of how having accessibility to the past makes you responsible for letting people in the past die. And Aku's reign indirectly brought about consequences that can be reworked for the better. Like interstellar travel and communication, advanced technology, new forms of racial co-existence, new cultures, weird magic stuff, etc. The origin of them being directly linked to Aku isn't pretty and Aku should never have been allowed to rule, but I don't think it's right to let that origin deter the potential they have to be reworked into being used to rebuild and make a better future. Maybe even one day, centuries or millennia later, possibly being better than a timeline without Aku. They still exist in the present whether we like it or not.
And yes, rebuilding is always possible. The lives that were lost can never be gained back, but there is always the potential to rebuild. In fact, that's what I found so inspiring about Jack and Ashi's character development (before they formed their romance) this season. They didn't let their failures/origins define their worth. They learned that there is always hope for the better as long as they keep an open mind to remembering their good deeds and recognizing that they are still active. That it's never too late to do good as long as they're still standing. It's daunting, perhaps unlikely or even unknowingly impossible, but it's still a chance worth taking.
@Count:
But it does allow the people who live in the future to exist instead of being, you know, completely erased. Even if by some miracle alternate versions of them exist in the "better" future, they're still entirely different people. Choosing to stay in either timeline, the past or the future, technically dooms the other. But at least the denizens of the past are already gone while the future characters exist now. Aku ruled for centuries of tyranny, but that does not mean you can't rebuild for a better tomorrow. It wouldn't make up for the centuries of suffering, but that doesn't mean the lives that still exist in the future should be viewed as expendable for the "greater good" of people who have already died centuries ago. Life isn't a scoreboard where you prioritize a certain group of lives to make up for suffering while sacrificing others, and I'd rather protect and help the people who exist now then sacrifice them for another group.
If staying going to his present(because let's nit forget he is from that time) makes Jack a mass murderer than staying in the future does the same. If somehow he is killing billions by going to his present then he is also making billions people not exist by staying in that time that is not his either. You cannot just pick and choose when Jack is making a genocide by merely being somewhere.
Aku fucked billions, destroyed multiple planets all because Jack failed and was displaced. The idea that somehow going back makes Jack genocidal when it is his time and everything happened because he failed is ridiculous. He didn't searched Scottsman ancestor and kill her. He killed the monster that was planning to enslave his planet.
If a random jew got to hitler before he started his invasion but Hitler shot him with a gun that sent him 10 years to the future. But than he found a way back to kill hitler and stop the massacre of the jews then screw everyone that says that guy is genocidal. The argument does not make sense when you are literally from the era you are acting in.
If staying going to his present(because let's nit forget he is from that time) makes Jack a mass murderer than staying in the future does the same. If somehow he is killing billions by going to his present then he is also making billions people not exist by staying in that time that is not his either. You cannot just pick and choose when Jack is making a genocide by merely being somewhere.
The difference is that what happened in the past already occurred. Everything that happened throughout history was terrible, but it was because of Aku. That is Aku's fault. Not Jack. He did as much as he could to fight Aku in the past. Going back to the present to sacrifice whatever good and potential exists in the darkest timeline is Jack effectively making a choice to enact a genocide of the future. I'm not "picking and choosing" when to label Jack's actions as being equivalent to genocide, it's a literal fact that's what he is doing by going to the past of his own free will rather than defeating Aku and redeeming the future. Sure, the future would probably be better if Aku was never around. But too much has occurred and been cultivated to be destroyed simply to regain what was lost. It's better to rebuild and take advantage of both what is still left and the advanced new opportunities that Aku's reign opened up for society. The past can never be fully replaced, but that goes for the future to for what it's worth despite all the bad that Aku's done if righteous people like all of Jack's allies still exist.
Aku fucked billions, destroyed multiple planets all because Jack failed and was displaced. The idea that somehow going back makes Jack genocidal when it is his time and everything happened because he failed is ridiculous. He didn't searched Scottsman ancestor and kill her. He killed the monster that was planning to enslave his planet.
He killed the monster that enslaved his planet for centuries by killing off everybody in the entire future. That does not sound like a fair trade to me, nor is it heroic. Jack failing in his first battle with Aku is not his fault. He did his best and got tricked into being time traveled. Going back to the past, however, is his conscious choice. And he has to take responsibility for it by knowing that while he got rid of all Aku's corruption, he also got rid of all of the good and honest people in the future. Going back to the past prioritizes dead people (that didn't deserve to die, but it already happened whether we like it or not) above lives that are still alive and relevant.
And this isn't even getting into consent issues of the possibility that everybody in the future doesn't want to sacrifice themselves for dead people from centuries ago if they know about cause-and-effect (unlike how Samurai Jack conveniently ignores that until Ashi dies days after she comes back to the past for whatever reason), and yet you do it anyways. Which is still selfish, even if you're saving people in the past, because you're sacrificing the people in the future whose lives are just as valuable yet STILL alive before you travel back.
If a random jew got to hitler before he started his invasion but Hitler shot him with a gun that sent him 10 years to the future. But than he found a way back to kill hitler and stop the massacre of the jews then screw everyone that says that guy is genocidal. The argument does not make sense when you are literally from the era you are acting in.
Depends on what type of changes preventing the massacre enforces on our timeline. It's unpredictable and could likely be hazardous. And the the events that occurred due to the Holocaust could have influenced a lot of lives, even indirectly for the better over the decades. The argument still applies because if we stretch out those ten years into over seventy where the Holocaust has powerfully influenced our culture, it could have all sorts of potential ramifications. Including possibly preventing either of us from being born, among other things. It sounds silly and ridiculous, but time travel is not a joke to be taken lightly. Especially when changing major events in history. It's easy to pretend that preventing the Holocaust with time travel just winds up in having our future stay intact with all the millions of Jews still alive while all of the people in the present still live in the same way as well, but it's NEVER that simple. And even if the person in your example can never know anything about the future past that decade, he's still technically sacrificing any births that could have occurred that are subtly linked to the Holocaust occurring due to the butterfly effect, among other things that may have been introduced in World War II linked to the Holocaust that may be aiding people a decade further like new medicine or other advancements.
I don't understand why you're using an example of acting within the era the time travel is involved in when Samurai Jack is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. The only way I find changing the past to be realistically justifiable is when it's without a doubt certain that it's impossible to get overcome corruption in the future due to either lacking strength to take out some type of global oppression or most of the planet being destroyed from an apocalypse or something. Or if you're from the past and it's one of those weird paradoxical stories where you need to be in the past so that the okay future you traveled to happens like in Meet the Robinsons. Even if you can prove that time traveling a decade ago is worth it, whole centuries of new lives, cultures, advancements, etc, being sacrificed for the past is a completely different story.