Way, way, way, way, way too many flashbacks in Bleach. Is Kyoraku dead or alive? Make up your mind O Trolling One.
Bleach Discussion 0: Hello Darkness my old friend
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So you think the concept of death itself is villianous?
I don't mean to keep dragging this up buuuuttt….
I was referring to being cold and indifferent as villainous. Byakuya was just following the uncaring system, without acting for his own personal feelings, and that was what Ichigo was fighting against.Of course, Ichigo hasn't seemed to make any long-term difference in Seireitei, unless imprisoning Aizen instead of executing him was the difference that Ichigo made.
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Way, way, way, way, way too many flashbacks in Bleach. Is Kyoraku dead or alive? Make up your mind O Trolling One.
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Kubo should have make a Gotei 10 instead of a Gotei 13, because there are too much characters to put in story. I don't think any Lieutenaut like Nanao, Nemu and Yachiru will ever get panel time again so yeah, screw the hollow hanya and the fuzzy yeti and god knows if Iba will get his time.
The problem is not in the amount of characters, the problem is in the lack of story to put them in. This arc has no actual plot and substitutes it with a series of isolate fights that are irrelevant to anything larger, where each battle must be a secluded and final resolution for a character, seeing how this is the final arc. Therefore each characters needs a defining, token flashback, power-up and revelation in a limited amount of time. Back in the days, when there was a clear, progressing story and each character had a part to play in it, and wasn't just moving in a conveyor belt of battles, there wasn't any problem with the size of the cast and it was actually one the most appealing parts of Bleach.
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The problem is not in the amount of characters, the problem is in the lack of story to put them in. This arc has no actual plot and substitutes it with a series of isolate fights that are irrelevant to anything larger, where each battle must be a secluded and final resolution for a character, seeing how this is the final arc. Therefore each characters needs a defining, token flashback, power-up and revelation in a limited amount of time. Back in the days, when there was a clear, progressing story and each character had a part to play in it, and wasn't just moving in a conveyor belt of battles, there wasn't any problem with the size of the cast and it was actually one the most appealing parts of Bleach.
The thing is, anyone would have trouble giving enough dose of story to make every single character relevant later on.
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Together with Fillerbring arc, it is 228 chapters now that Kubo has been wasting time doing nothing story wise since Aizen's defeat. 228 chapters, just let that sink in. That's an entire other manga in size. You can do pretty much anything with any amount of characters in that time, let alone already established ones, if you have a direction to go. If all this time was spent telling one coherent story, having all characters be relevant to it would be a sinch to do with any pace, and you don't need to have all of them relevant either.
228 chapters.
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Speaking of the current story, can anyone clarify for me:
What is Bach currently doing?
What are the actions currently being undertaken by our final, main villain that force the heroes against him?
What is the current disaster that must be averted?
Or in other words: Why should the readers give a shit about the current events? With Aizen there was at least the "stop him or he makes a key by KILLING YOUR WHOLE TOWN, DUN DUN DUNNNNN" excuse, but with Bach I'm legigitimately not sure. He's gonna…make the world a quincyworld, is that it? When is he gonna do that? What does that entail? Does it involve negative consequences for Soul Society or earth? Probably, but I'm legitimately not sure. All I know is that Bleach currently has all the thrust of a classic Castlevania game: Go top castle, kill bad guy because bad.
Even though it was stupid Doflamingo at least had his Birdcage to instill a little urgency while loitering about on his throne. -
Readers should care because we are getting to see unrevealed bankais, and Grimjow is back, and Bach is the strongest person we've seen so fa4. Also Aizen might do stuff. I think we are supposed to be worried about Ishida.
Bleach shows something that is really important in any story. You should make us care about characters before, not during, major events. I should like Nanao and then this part should build up and add impact. You don't add this to make us care for a character all of a sudden.
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@Daz:
Speaking of the current story, can anyone clarify for me:
What is Bach currently doing?
What are the actions currently being undertaken by our final, main villain that force the heroes against him?
What is the current disaster that must be averted?
Or in other words: Why should the readers give a shit about the current events? With Aizen there was at least the "stop him or he makes a key by KILLING YOUR WHOLE TOWN, DUN DUN DUNNNNN" excuse, but with Bach I'm legigitimately not sure. He's gonna…make the world a quincyworld, is that it? When is he gonna do that? What does that entail? Does it involve negative consequences for Soul Society or earth? Probably, but I'm legitimately not sure. All I know is that Bleach currently has all the thrust of a classic Castlevania game: Go top castle, kill bad guy because bad.
Even though it was stupid Doflamingo at least had his Birdcage to instill a little urgency while loitering about on his throne.Well, Yhwach killed/absorbed the Spirit King and is now just sitting up there doing nothing, we don't yet know his plan, as, possibly, doesn't Kubo. His fodder elites are attacking everyone and they are fighting back, so far that's the only motivation behind all the fighting. His overall scheme to destroy Soul Society and kill all Shinigami is still in force though, so you can say heroes are fighting against that, though their original plan was to stop Yhwach from killing the king.
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Well, Yhwach killed/absorbed the Spirit King and is now just sitting up there doing nothing, we don't yet know his plan, as, possibly, doesn't Kubo. His fodder elites are attacking everyone and they are fighting back, so far that's the only motivation behind all the fighting. His overall scheme to destroy Soul Society and kill all Shinigami is still in force though, so you can say heroes are fighting against that, though their original plan was to stop Yhwach from killing the king.
And that is why we are getting all these isolated fights with shoe-horned backstory. Kubo is stalling for time.
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@The:
Bleach shows something that is really important in any story. You should make us care about characters before, not during, major events. I should like Nanao and then this part should build up and add impact. You don't add this to make us care for a character all of a sudden.
Also: tangible Stakes. And motives, for both antagonists and Protagonists. What are they trying to achieve/prevent, and why? And if its just "to kill the other!" and "to not be killed!", as was pretty much the only driving forces of Quincies and shinigami this arc…thats not compelling for shit.
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@Daz:
Speaking of the current story, can anyone clarify for me:
What is Bach currently doing?
What are the actions currently being undertaken by our final, main villain that force the heroes against him?
What is the current disaster that must be averted?
Bach is charging his Spirit Bomb, right?
I say this because I honestly don't remember what he was up to but I'm pretty sure he's currently sitting around waiting for nothing in particular. It's as good an answer as any at this point.
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@Daz:
Also: tangible Stakes. And motives, for both antagonists and Protagonists. What are they trying to achieve/prevent, and why? And if its just "to kill the other!" and "to not be killed!", as was pretty much the only driving forces of Quincies and shinigami this arc…thats not compelling for shit.
Silly Daz, you just don't comprehend the subtle motivations behind such deep characters and story. If you knew religious symbology, the way Bachs mustache has grown is like that one god from that one old religion. You know, the one whos mustache grew for reasons and became god of something or another. Said god did stuff and was recorded by the religion. Because Bach's mustache has done the same, his story must be the same. Therefore you would know Bachs motivation if you knew the story. The fact he has some Christian symbology makes him more complex, which only a PhD thesis could begin to show such depth.
I thought you were above us plebs Daz, but even I knew that. I don't think I could look at you the same senpai
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You know, with how Quincy Hoodie and Quincy Sniper turned out, theres still a chance Bach ends up as a literal Giant Flying Mustace Angel
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@Daz:
Also: tangible Stakes. And motives, for both antagonists and Protagonists. What are they trying to achieve/prevent, and why? And if its just "to kill the other!" and "to not be killed!", as was pretty much the only driving forces of Quincies and shinigami this arc…thats not compelling for shit.
That's one of the (many) things that ruined the arc. Those captains behaving like it's Ichigo and a couple of weaklings invading SS when attacked by Quincy who don't fuck around. Then the second attack, fucking around again, talking to their enemy, talking about their ability to their enemy. Then Quincy start fucking around again, despite their leader wanting the fights to be over fast, because he dislikes fighting.
Komamura was the only bright thing in the second battle for me. He decided to sacrifice everything just to be able to defeat their enemies, and never fucked around in his fight. Blasted that bitch away with her own 'splosions. But that kind of character was so hard for Kubo to handle, that he effectively removed him and the person closest to him from the story.
Even that bitch returned to fight some more, in zombie form, but still. -
And that is why we are getting all these isolated fights with shoe-horned backstory. Kubo is stalling for time.
More like he just doesn't care anymore.
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I only wish the vast majority of these Quincies weren't just "evil sadistic assholes just for the sake of being evil". Touch on the actions of the Shinigami in the past! Make some of them doubt and oppose this world-conquering plan of their leader (well Bazz-B and Liltotto both defected IIRC)…..why can't this be like the Ishvalan massacre from Fullmetal Alchemist?
And I will call total bullshit if Mayuri's torture of Quincies is NEVER brought up or alluded to when this ends.
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The "heart" of Mayuris last fight was ultimately about how much he loved his favourite domestic abuse punching-bag daughter…so I'd say your chances are slim.
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@Daz:
The "heart" of Mayuris last fight was ultimately about how much he loved his favourite domestic abuse punching-bag daughter…so I'd say your chances are slim.
Because nothing says I love you like slashing your daughter, stomping on your daughter, "sexing" your daughter…..
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I guess Mayuri's torture means little to Sternritter, considering all those that Mayuri killed were supposed to be killed by Bach himself during his Auswahlen anyway.
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And I will call total bullshit if Mayuri's torture of Quincies is NEVER brought up or alluded to when this ends.
Don't get your hopes up.
Back in SS arc, Mayuri was pictured as a truly evil person. His fight with Uryu was totally serious, there was not a single humorous scene. Back in SS, Mayuri was not supposed to be charismatic or funny, he was supposed to be hateful and that's all.
Since HM, Kubo is trying all he can to change that. Kubo already said Mayuri is his favorite character and, starting from HM, he is trying his best to make the readers like Mayuri too and part of that means pretending everything back in SS never happened. Now Mayuri is supposed to be a sadistic but funny mad scientist.
I mean, even Mayuri x Uryu interactions have a humorous side to it now. Back in SS arc, Mayuri revealed he arranged the death of Uryu's grandfather and master, tortured his soul once it arrived on SS until it died again (?), took a picture of his disembodied head and threw it at Uryu's face! How can they be frenemies now? -
I believe back at Rukia's Rescue arc, Mayuri was presented that way to make us think that SS was up to something atrocious. Gin was made that way too, but with more emphasis on being a dick than evil.
But really, the idiot leaders of SS went straight for "X-cution" to punish Shunsui's sister in law? By the looks of it, they didn't bother doing any sort of investigation at all because if they did, Shunsui would've been suspected to have part in it.
Did that go according to Aizen's plan too, eh, Kubo?
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Right now, every Bleach chapter feels like this:
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But that implies that this fight is interesting
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http://www.mangacity.me/scans/i7/img/bleach/546/bleach-4297939.jpg
Who are these people?Like, I can vaguely remember them from the early days so I actually know who they are and yet… who are these people?
Ichigo barely had any friendship screentime with them. Even less, wait no, MUCH less than with Healing Boobs and Jobber Hand.
The only one who ever made a modicum of an impression was that girl who hits Ichigo sometimes.
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http://www.mangacity.me/scans/i7/img/bleach/546/bleach-4297939.jpg
Who are these people?Like, I can vaguely remember them from the early days so I actually know who they are and yet… who are these people?
The who grabs Shunsui's collar is.. Keigo, while the other one is Mizuiro. Actually, I've kind of forgotten when exactly they were told about SS and Ichigo's secret job. But..yeah, it's like they haven't been friends with Ichigo for years due to their severe lack of relevance.
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There was that girl that did karate or something like that and I guess everyone expected her to gain powers, and I kinda liked her tbh…or so I recall? She's been eating dust in a corner under the rain since like...300 chapters ago? No, those hilarious chapters where Ichigo's friends escaped from the slowest moving Aizen do not count for shit.
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I also remember that one girl who seemed like she really wanted to sex Orihime up.
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Classic Kubo with too many characters. Here's the lowdown on Ichigo's classmates.
- There's Tatsuki, whose learnt Karate with Ichigo or something. She's Orihimi's best friend(lol). Last memory: When Yammi (Espada 0) and Ulquiorra (THE HEART) first appeared they murdered every one of the people in Tatsuki's Dojo. I don't remember that having much of an impact on her actually.
- Keigo, some random annoying dude. Last memory: over the top jealousy towards Ichigo about women or something
- Mizuiro, Keigo's friend (and by extension Ichigo's friend) Some Bleach fan once made a theory about him being the secret big bad or something. Last memory: He got a tan
- Chizuru: She's a lesbian. And she likes Orihime's boobs. Last memory: She had a "boner", and Tatsuki told her to die and to be reincarnated as a man
- Ishida: Some dude with glasses. Last memory: I can't really remember, but I think it was something important.
The who grabs Shunsui's collar is.. Keigo, while the other one is Mizuiro. Actually, I've kind of forgotten when exactly they were told about SS and Ichigo's secret job. But..yeah, it's like they haven't been friends with Ichigo for years due to their severe lack of relevance.
How could you forget? It's chapter with the afterlife tickets!
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Was Mizuiro the one who fought Aizen with housemade explosives?
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Was Mizuiro the one who fought Aizen with housemade explosives?
16 characters of I think so.
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Hey! Never forget Kanonji. He isn´t a classmate, but he feels like one, and was forgotten like one.
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Well not only is it an issue of too many characters, it's also that Kubo has absolutely no concept of planning or pacing. Then there's the problem of kubo introducing a crap ton of new characters whenever he's bored or can't think of material for the story.
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Tatsuki was the coolest :(
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I always hoped that Don Kanoji would have ended up being the real Spirit King, oh well
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Oh wow.
So not only did Juha Bach pull "I WAS YOUR SWORD SPIRIT ALL ALONG!", but apparently Quincies were living in the Soul Society's basement? What?
Seiritei was the place most unguarded? Of all places? Really? Seiretei? The one Ichigo and co worked so hard to intrude in back in the day?
Doctor Insano and his ghost scientists never noticed a thing? Nothing at all?
Alright, I get the dimensional veil thing, but how did Quincies ever manga to raise that thing back in the day? They somehow went straight to enemy HQ and did performed large scale mumbo jumbo without a single soul taking notice? What?
Like, I always said Soul Society is inept as hell but COME ON!
I must be missing something. I have to be. Someone correct me and make me feel like a fool, please. Anyone?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Doctor Insano figured it out after the last time, but didn't warn anybody?
Wait that one makes a modicum of sense. He is a douche.
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How could you forget? It's chapter with the afterlife tickets!
Ah, it all comes back to me now. Afterlife tickets.. heh. At this rate, Ichigo's friends wouldn't even need any to go there. They're going to die from the continuous earthquakes that started right after SK was absorbed.
I must be missing something. I have to be. Someone correct me and make me feel like a fool, please. Anyone?
The "We've been living in the shadows for 1000 years" is just gratuitous term for "coming out of nowhere". There's really nothing to say about it, other than it's a Grade S bullshit.
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Alright, so I've been mulling over ch. 652 and there's something that doesn't make sense. Kubo reveals that Nanao doesn't have her own zanpakuto due to her clan being in charge of the holy-cursed sword. That she was unable to imprint on an asauchi. So then what in hell is this? http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bleach/images/d/d5/Nanaosword.png/revision/latest?cb=20081230115219&path-prefix=en
I could see that Ise women don't have their own zan because of tradition, but not can't.
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To be fair, that's just a group shot of vice captains with their zans. Just for the sake of theme, she got her own zan back. Unless, in early chapters she was actually shown carrying her own zan. I can't be bothered to check if she did or not have her zan in the first place, but I do remember that she was never involved in fight at all before this arc.
If anything, Kubo was trying to fill the holes in his story by making up things on the spot to fit with current plot's demands. Who knows, maybe he simply forgot to draw Nanao with her own zanpakto and established something else to cover that up.
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This chapter was a little shitty, didn't like the Nanao's point of view, it has never been of importance. Any development to kill the bird would be good either way.
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Alright, so I've been mulling over ch. 652 and there's something that doesn't make sense. Kubo reveals that Nanao doesn't have her own zanpakuto due to her clan being in charge of the holy-cursed sword. That she was unable to imprint on an asauchi. So then what in hell is this? http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bleach/images/d/d5/Nanaosword.png/revision/latest?cb=20081230115219&path-prefix=en
I could see that Ise women don't have their own zan because of tradition, but not can't.
An ordinary sword?
Don't question Kubo. :ninja:
Seriously though, it's not like we haven't seen people carry non Zanpakuto weapons, like Ganju and Kukaku, for example. Still, at that time, Kubo probably hadn't yet decided what to do with Nanao's ability. He's like nega-Oda. Oda's color spreads foreshadow characters who haven't even appeared yet whileas Kubo's spreads create plotholes.
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Bleach is all about style when it comes to color spread. Nothing else matters, especially continuity :ninja:
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"Slumber is like the moon. Close and far at the same time.
Don't sleep till you sleep."
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He and Jaden Smith are probably soulmates.
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Say what you guys want, but Kubo had ballin' colorspreads before…well, the timeskip really.
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Alright, so I've been mulling over ch. 652 and there's something that doesn't make sense. Kubo reveals that Nanao doesn't have her own zanpakuto due to her clan being in charge of the holy-cursed sword. That she was unable to imprint on an asauchi. So then what in hell is this? http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bleach/images/d/d5/Nanaosword.png/revision/latest?cb=20081230115219&path-prefix=en
I could see that Ise women don't have their own zan because of tradition, but not can't.
Then that isn't a Zanpakto she is holding, but a nameless Assauchi with no powers. In other words an ordinary sword.
Say what you guys want, but Kubo had ballin' colorspreads before…well, the timeskip really.
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http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab297/halfhearted_nf_VI/bleach-v24-p185b.png
http://www.mydailymanga.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/all_colour_066067.png
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bleach/images/c/cc/ShinigamiCaptains.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090904005449&path-prefix=en
http://i42.tinypic.com/260g1ox.jpg
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/ojkfmvngnjgfjgbfjnbgjbgfj/Bleach-Vol14-Ch116-02-03.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/25rpobt.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/10f3m9x.jpg
[/hide]When I looked back at some older anime scenes I was like ''ughh, why are some characters chins so long drawn??'' like Rose, but it was in the older manga style too. Glad it got changed.
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@Vin:
Then that isn't a Zanpakto she is holding, but a nameless Assauchi with no powers. In other words an ordinary sword.
When I looked back at some older anime scenes I was like ''ughh, why are some characters chins so long drawn??'' like Rose, but it was in the older manga style too. Glad it got changed.
No because a blank asauchi has no decoration on the guard or specific coloring. I get the feeling that Kubo intended to display Nanao's powers some time during this arc but forgot about it until now.
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No because a blank asauchi has no decoration on the guard or specific coloring. I get the feeling that Kubo intended to display Nanao's powers some time during this arc but forgot about it until now.
Really? I didn't know that lol. Good find then. Could you give me a link where this was stated?
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@Vin:
Really? I didn't know that lol. Good find then. Could you give me a link where this was stated?
It's never actually stated that a blank asauchi has no guard decoration or specific coloring, but there is a page that show blank asauchi. It's a brilliant move on Kubo's part of showing and not telling. Though it might have been accidental http://m.mangatown.com/manga/bleach/v53/c523/8.html
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So, based on what Nimaiya dude says in the following pages, what kind of relationship that is most ideal for a shinigami and zanpakto? Ichigo not knowing anything about the "correct" way to use zan is somewhat acceptable because he wasn't taught anything like those in shinigami academy. However, Renji not knowing it as well is what perplexes me the most.
The first time I read that statement, I thought Kubo was trying to make it sound deep as usual, which I still do.