Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
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There's a difference between crewmate and part of Luffy's armada.
True….. what do you think Robby, does having chopper mean a minkman won't join the crew? Or do you think Oda will just make the next crew member a human again or someone from a different species?
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Which ends up making him look like a Mink. And he is unique because of it, being considered a monster and everything.
Seriously, Look at Carrot's facial structure. Same as Chopper's. Both are anthropomorphic animals, the only difference is why. There's a reason we all believe Chopper will be important in this arc after all.
I mean, you can't seriously be comparing Nami and Robin with Chopper and a Mink. It's not like humans aren't the most common and dominant race in the world of One Piece.
It's like how I said before, you won't have a robot or a zombie joining the crew because we already have a cyborg and a skeleton to fill those niches.
I wasn't even talking about Carrot I'm just talking about a mink but no Carrot doesn't look like Chopper at all, she seems considerably bigger(basing on chopper smaller form), has a body and face that reminds me of a one piece girl with some rabbit features, she reminds me of Sugar body type wise, I don't think her appeal is the same as Chopper at all, Chopper is the cuddly small animal, she would be a smaller cute girl(even loli maybe) which is different from the two sets of boobs we have in the crew and looks very different from Chopper.
Ofc I'm exaggerating there with the girls but regardless of that there are a lot more visual features from lets say Carrot to Chopper than Nami to Robin.
I'm saying its totally open for a mink to join the crew and I'll stick with that, that doesn't mean one will and like I said since there are 0 hints at this point I'm not going to suggest any of them but they can be very different from Chopper visually and body type wise and if they have a different battling style I don't see that affecting Chopper niche at all.
The Dog girl remembers me more of Nami for obvious reasons than Carrot remember me of Chopper they look nothing alike.
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True….. what do you think Robby, does having chopper mean a minkman won't join the crew? Or do you think Oda will just make the next crew member a human again or someone from a different species?
Given we've had a deer, a robot, a skeleton, and a fish, I have to imagine the remainder will have to be equally unique, and not just a human. Even devil fruit doesn't cut it anymore since we have 4 of them in the crew.
A minkman would fit the bill fine, but they will have to standout all the more with Chopper around. I can't imagine it being one of the samey faced girls we've already seen. Once we see more of them we'll know them when we see them.
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Given we've had a deer, a robot, a skeleton, and a fish, I have to imagine the remainder will have to be equally unique, and not just a human. Even devil fruit doesn't cut it anymore since we have 4 of them in the crew.
A minkman would fit the bill fine, but they will have to standout all the more with Chopper around. I can't imagine it being one of the samey faced girls we've already seen. Once we see more of them we'll know them when we see them.
A fighter girl would make it interesting, one that would have an attitude like Luffy/Zoro/Sanji/Franky(aka always ready to fight and enjoy it), give her a logia since we don't have any in the crew currently, I think a different personality/attitude and a unique fighting style would make her/him different enough.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again… people latched onto Monet because she was cute, (while paying zero attention to personality or actions like POISONING CHILDREN) plus she was in an arc with other fusion people... and Brownbeard FAR better fit any criteria in terms of design and personality and loyalty to his friends and interaction with the strawhats than she ever did... but no one ever seriously discussed him as a possibility... because no boobs. Or the other handful of people with deer or horse bodies.
I too have said this before, but since you brought it up, I also will say it again. For many, myself included (or maybe it's just me,) variation in character personality is far more important than design, though both of course are vital aspects. Although I do recognize how easy it is to throw a "tee hee boobies" motivation onto anyone who supported Monet, regardless of what they're actually saying, there are reasons beyond just that. With the eclectic mix of archetypes on the boat as of right now, there's a strong need for a character who doesn't resemble any of the others, and a malicious, snarky-yet-bashful, scientifically-grounded lawful evil type fit that bill almost perfectly, when Punk Hazard was still going on. Granted, if she was ever really going to work as someone other than a villain, then heavy doses of character development would have been needed very quickly… but it's not as if Oda hasn't done that before. Couple that with tangible hints at actual backstory (the astronomy book, as you mentioned, but there were other subtle clues as well, that I've no time to go seek out right now) and there was a time where, while admittedly highly unlikely, it was still nevertheless appealing to like the idea of Monet joining the crew. And since you did bring up the boob thing... well, of all the characters that could join the main cast, is there REALLY that much of a demand for another dude character? Especially since the personality traits of pretty much every other female lately have been reduced to just "girl"?
Really, with how much of a demand for female representation there is in analysis of media these days, it's wholly strange to me that, in regards to this one issue, anyone who brings it up is immediately painted as a shallow giggling horndog. You may not agree, and I completely respect that opinion, but at the same time, Monet was, to some at least, a pretty cool character, who had an appeal beyond just what you listed.
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She literally has the same facial features as Chopper.
Mysterious DF power. Actual interactions with the crew. Large focus on introductory chapter (she literally stole the show) + more than half a page dedicated to showcasing her design. Heck, she even took Luffy's precious straw hat and wore it as a form of foreshadowing.
This all on a single chapter.
Easy to say it was foreshadowing now. But yeah… I'll concede she did have a better (didn't even recalled she used her powers back then) introduction than Carrot.
But I'm looking back to the chapter we're introduced to Chopper, and he was pretty much secondary, he did got an infobox with his name but that was it, by then he was just Dr. Kureha's pet. So I don't think that needs to be a certain amount of focus, or whatever on a SH introductory chapter, and she still has a lot of time be expanded and maybe, who knows, actually become a SH.
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And since you did bring up the boob thing… well, of all the characters that could join the main cast, is there REALLY that much of a demand for another dude character? Especially since the personality traits of pretty much every other female lately have been reduced to just "girl"?
Really, with how much of a demand for female representation there is in analysis of media these days, it's wholly strange to me that, in regards to this one issue, anyone who brings it up is immediately painted as a shallow giggling horndog.
When someone latches onto a character and then talks about their personality, in a way that isn't 100% fanfic or based on a single panel, then there's a case, sure.
There was no such thing for Monet, and people were reeeeeally stretching to apply tons of personality she just didn't have based on a line of dialogue, or misconstruing the scene where Law left a note for Chopper.
Monet was NOT a quiet blushy shy girl with a heart of gold working for the badguy with no idea of what she was really doing, no matter how much someone wanted it to be so. And Perona was someone that abandoned her friens at the drop of the hat and had no team loyalty. And Hancock had a huge list of reasons and obligations that couldn't be ignored, but that didn't prevent people from saying things like "Amazon Lilly can just go to war with the world, and Hancock can travel with Luffy then!" It's amazing to m ethat, given how hated Rebecca is now, people made such passionate cases for her… despite the fact that her dreams and aspirations were all along tied to Dresserossa... and she looked EXACTLY like Nami. Or Viola who looked just like Robin.
It's not that there's no room for such a character, its that people really wanted that character and were bending the actual facts to their will, writing huge essays about a single panel and their interpretation, and actively ignoring the actual problems and lack of character, at length, in order to make their case.
The fact that Brownbeard was overall a MUCH better fit as strawhat ally, but was wholly ignored while Monet was fantasized over for a year shows that yes, it purely came down to people wanting that character design, and not the character, to join the crew. Cripes, the amount of resistance Jinbe had, for YEARS, is ridiculous... and mostly boils down to him being fat or "boring".
That this thread is only interested in boobs wouldn't be a cliche if it didn't keep happening.
Every.
Single.
Time.Sure, obviously there's room for another female character instead of a 9th main male character. (And especially for a grandmother or youngest daughter role.) But I wouldn't put "push in media for stronger female roles" at Oda's doorstep... especially not Japanese media.
But when people are saying "tomboy brawler lookout gardener minkman girl" before such a character even exists? (And before that it was fishman...) When the first character we see, over and over, who have the same exact bodytype and face as the two girls already around? It's fanfic, pure and simple. And no, there really isn't room for discussion about that, because it is "I like boobs", consistently, pure and simple.
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@The:
If anyone is going to be a new Nakama, it's Baratie.
But the Baratie is quite large. No way it fits through the Sunny's doors.
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Monet at least had that scene where she watched Chopper go away and didn't do anything about it. With that and the mysterious books/wings, I don't blame the support she got. But any chance went out the window when she tried to bite Chopper and Nami in half.
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Actual interactions with the crew. Large focus on introductory chapter (she literally stole the show) + more than half a page dedicated to showcasing her design. Heck, she even took Luffy's precious straw hat and wore it as a form of foreshadowing.
This all on a single chapter.
To be fair, that was the introduction of the second strongest villain in the enemy organization, she was "Mr. President"s partner. Back then, the SH had only met people as strong as the #8 pair and suddenly half of the #1 pair appears. All the focus on her can be simply because of that instead of foreshadowing.
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When someone latches onto a character and then talks about their personality, in a way that isn't 100% fanfic or based on a single panel, then there's a case, sure.
There was no such thing for Monet, and people were reeeeeally stretching to apply tons of personality she just didn't have based on a line of dialogue, or misconstruing the scene where Law left a note for Chopper.
Monet was NOT a quiet blushy shy girl with a heart of gold working for the badguy with no idea of what she was really doing, no matter how much someone wanted it to be so. And Perona was someone that abandoned her friens at the drop of the hat and had no team loyalty. And Hancock had a huge list of reasons and obligations that couldn't be ignored, but that didn't prevent people from saying things like "Amazon Lilly can just go to war with the world, and Hancock can travel with Luffy then!" It's amazing to m ethat, given how hated Rebecca is now, people made such passionate cases for her… despite the fact that her dreams and aspirations were all along tied to Dresserossa... and she looked EXACTLY like Nami. Or Viola who looked just like Robin.
It's not that there's no room for such a character, its that people really wanted that character and were bending the actual facts to their will, writing huge essays about a single panel and their interpretation, and actively ignoring the actual problems and lack of character, at length, in order to make their case.
The fact that Brownbeard was overall a MUCH better fit as strawhat ally, but was wholly ignored while Monet was fantasized over for a year shows that yes, it purely came down to people wanting that character design, and not the character, to join the crew. Cripes, the amount of resistance Jinbe had, for YEARS, is ridiculous... and mostly boils down to him being fat or "boring".
That this thread is only interested in boobs wouldn't be a cliche if it didn't keep happening.
Every.
Single.
Time.Sure, obviously there's room for another female character instead of a 9th main male character. (And especially for a grandmother or youngest daughter role.) But I wouldn't put "push in media for stronger female roles" at Oda's doorstep... especially not Japanese media.
But when people are saying "tomboy brawler lookout gardener minkman girl" before such a character even exists? (And before that it was fishman...) When the first character we see, over and over, who have the same exact bodytype and face as the two girls already around? It's fanfic, pure and simple. And no, there really isn't room for discussion about that, because it is "I like boobs", consistently, pure and simple.
This x 100
Hell the theories have been even stretched for women who only appeared in one freaking panel or side characters as Shirley, Camie, Baby 5 and and and…
Still the worst for me has been the Shirahoshi supporters... And how she could pull the ship like a slave
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Honestly if she wasn't so obviously an evil and manipulative bitch I would absolutely love for Bakkin to join the crew.
And not just because of the grandma thing but because I really love her design and attitude. I'm looking forward to her as a villain.~
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I like to note that I'm not completely against a minkmen joining the crew if there are any.
Like Robby pointed out, a potential minkmen crewmate would have to be radically different and distinct from chopper to be considered.
When it comes to chopper, the first thing that comes to mind is he's "the talking humanoid animal mascot".
For a minkmen to qualify as a potential crewmate, they must have another dominant and distinct trait aside from being a talking animal. -
Carrot looks cool, but I'd rather have a wild, scary looking mink. Let Chopper handle the cuteness.
A crocodile, a bat or a okama. -
Monet was NOT a quiet blushy shy girl with a heart of gold working for the badguy with no idea of what she was really doing, no matter how much someone wanted it to be so. And Perona was someone that abandoned her friens at the drop of the hat and had no team loyalty. And Hancock had a huge list of reasons and obligations that couldn't be ignored, but that didn't prevent people from saying things like "Amazon Lilly can just go to war with the world, and Hancock can travel with Luffy then!" It's amazing to m ethat, given how hated Rebecca is now, people made such passionate cases for her… despite the fact that her dreams and aspirations were all along tied to Dresserossa... and she looked EXACTLY like Nami. Or Viola who looked just like Robin.
It's not that there's no room for such a character, its that people really wanted that character and were bending the actual facts to their will, writing huge essays about a single panel and their interpretation, and actively ignoring the actual problems and lack of character, at length, in order to make their case.
The fact that Brownbeard was overall a MUCH better fit as strawhat ally, but was wholly ignored while Monet was fantasized over for a year shows that yes, it purely came down to people wanting that character design, and not the character, to join the crew. Cripes, the amount of resistance Jinbe had, for YEARS, is ridiculous... and mostly boils down to him being fat or "boring".
I think it's the first point I'm quoting here that really sums up where the disconnect is. Because I don't want a blushy shy girl, and especially not one with a heart of gold. Nor was I ever invested in Hancock, Perona, and absolutely not Rebecca or Shirahoshi joining the crew. Again, you're focusing too much on the boob part. What I found appealing in Monet, that separated her from all the other candidates of the time, was that she was a VILLAIN. If we're going to peg one specific type as the kind of character I want to see next in the crew, it would be someone who starts out as genuinely, no apologies given, evil. And not the kind like Robin or Franky, where there's a convenient excuse and inner goodness right from the start. Again, it mostly has to do with what I said before, with wanting a character who won't overlap with any of the established leads.
I want a character who ventured into the dark side and got swallowed up by it. I want a character who will see Luffy and friends fighting to save an innocent kingdom, and genuinely not understand why. The kind of character who will, even after being accepted as part of the group, will still always think of the most pragmatic, dishonorable solution to every problem first. But also, I want to see them eventually try something else. I want to see how the character got to that place to begin with, and how time spent on the crew would effect that mindset. To see what it would take to get them to support their new shipmates anyway, regardless of the radically different outlook. And I want to see how the rest of the crew would respond to them. I want to see that kind of personality react and bounce off of the rest of the group. That's what's interesting to me, that's what would keep me excited to read the next chapter. It's just fascinating to think of what Oda could make of it. And, at the time of Punk Hazard, Monet just happened to be the closest it seemed we could possibly get to that.
That's why Brownbeard, despite his more supportive role to the main cast, was never suited for the Straw Hats. Yes, absolutely, he was visually distinctive, but characterization-wise, what could he have actually done to shake up the core dynamic enough to justify him being there? Yes, as it was, at the end of Punk Hazard, there wasn't much to Monet. I'll happily concede that much. But there was just enough to lead to speculation, not any defined truths or facts, just speculation that maybe there was the off chance that Oda would do something cool with her. I'm not one to deal in certainties, I find those boring. I'm more fond of what-ifs.
Right now, there are nine VERY distinct types on the boat, at a point that's now fairly late in the game. Already, that's a lot to have at the same time, without the characters muting each other out. If there's going to be another addition, it should be someone who could bring something really new to the table, and who wouldn't be overwhelmed by any of the others. So yeah, I wouldn't be so quick to lump the Monet Camp and the Boob Camp into the same place, at least not entirely. Hope that clarifies my position some.
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Monet at least had that scene where she watched Chopper go away and didn't do anything about it. With that and the mysterious books/wings, I don't blame the support she got. But any chance went out the window when she tried to bite Chopper and Nami in half.
That's a holdover misinterpretation from people thinking she left the note. She did NOT " watch Chopper go away and didn't do anything about it."
She heard a noise but did not see Chopper.The scene was intended as "He was almost noticed but barely escaped".
But because people were fanficcing from when he got the note teleported to him from Law, they instead read it as "she is secretly plotting a conspiracy."
@.access:
To be fair, that was the introduction of the second strongest villain in the enemy organization, she was "Mr. President"s partner. Back then, the SH had only met people as strong as the #8 pair and suddenly half of the #1 pair appears. All the focus on her can be simply because of that instead of foreshadowing.
Robin, ad the effort put into her intro, is obvious in hindsight.
But anyone that had made a claim of her being next nakama at that point would have been pure blind guessing and an idiot… and ultimately right sheerly based on the fact that everyone female gets guessed now. Now, if you noticed how she was acting throughout the arc and picked up other clues that there was more to her than met the eye, especially at the point where she helped Luffy, then a legitimate case could have been made.
Similarly, guessing at Franky when he was still in a mask and a bully would have been dumb... but the instant his real design was revealed... it should have been over. If Pauly hadn't been a decent red herring at the time. And then we got the flashback and he appeared in a color spread... it just shouldn't have been any question at that juncture.
This x 100
Hell the theories have been even stretched for women who only appeared in one freaking panel or side characters as Shirley, Camie, Baby 5 and and and…
I had forgotten that people seriously suggested Caimie. Uggh. "SHe's got to be close to thirty! No doubt her tail will split any time now! And her complete inability to fight combined with her habit of being useless and captured won't get tiresome at all!"
At least Shirley was older, had a unique design (including unusual eyes) and connection to Arlong, but that was pretty ridiculous too.
Baby 5 at least some of the misguided insights were okay, since she did end up with Sai and as part of Luffy's armada. She had the qualities and position of an ally… but not a strawhat.
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I too have said this before, but since you brought it up, I also will say it again. For many, myself included (or maybe it's just me,) variation in character personality is far more important than design, though both of course are vital aspects. Although I do recognize how easy it is to throw a "tee hee boobies" motivation onto anyone who supported Monet, regardless of what they're actually saying, there are reasons beyond just that. With the eclectic mix of archetypes on the boat as of right now, there's a strong need for a character who doesn't resemble any of the others, and a malicious, snarky-yet-bashful, scientifically-grounded lawful evil type fit that bill almost perfectly, when Punk Hazard was still going on. Granted, if she was ever really going to work as someone other than a villain, then heavy doses of character development would have been needed very quickly… but it's not as if Oda hasn't done that before. Couple that with tangible hints at actual backstory (the astronomy book, as you mentioned, but there were other subtle clues as well, that I've no time to go seek out right now) and there was a time where, while admittedly highly unlikely, it was still nevertheless appealing to like the idea of Monet joining the crew. And since you did bring up the boob thing... well, of all the characters that could join the main cast, is there REALLY that much of a demand for another dude character? Especially since the personality traits of pretty much every other female lately have been reduced to just "girl"?
Really, with how much of a demand for female representation there is in analysis of media these days, it's wholly strange to me that, in regards to this one issue, anyone who brings it up is immediately painted as a shallow giggling horndog. You may not agree, and I completely respect that opinion, but at the same time, Monet was, to some at least, a pretty cool character, who had an appeal beyond just what you listed.
Agreed. Robby has overlooked some subtle clues that Monet's character had layers you don't normally see.
The astronomy passion would have also been a unique crew "job" and could easily spawn a unique dream.
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it would be someone who starts out as genuinely, no apologies given, evil.
Like Robin. Who first appeared after "killing" Vivi's lifelong friend.
I want a character who ventured into the dark side and got swallowed up by it.
Like Robin. Who became an assassin and worked with any criminal she could.
I want a character who will see Luffy and friends fighting to save an innocent kingdom, and genuinely not understand why.
Like Robin. Or Mr. 2.
The kind of character who will, even after being accepted as part of the group, will still always think of the most pragmatic, dishonorable solution to every problem first.
Like Robin. Who tries to snap necks and spines as a first option.
But also, I want to see them eventually try something else. I want to see how the character got to that place to begin with, and how time spent on the crew would effect that mindset
Like Robin. Who only did her first face fault a year ago, and just this most recent chapter found a thing cute and acted more feminine than she has in the last decade, who smiles now and cracks jokes when she used not to.
. To see what it would take to get them to support their new shipmates anyway, regardless of the radically different outlook.
Like Robin. Who "betrayed" and left them at Water 7 to go on an assassination mission and then die until they resoundingly proved their loyalty and determination to not betray her.
And I want to see how the rest of the crew would respond to them. I want to see that kind of personality react and bounce off of the rest of the group.
Like Robin. WHo the crew was initially terrified of.
That's what's interesting to me, that's what would keep me excited to read the next chapter. It's just fascinating to think of what Oda could make of it. And, at the time of Punk Hazard, Monet just happened to be the closest it seemed we could possibly get to that.
You literally just described Robin exactly in every single way. You've just had 15 years, long inclusion in the crew, a flashback, and Water 7 to get used to her
There's also some of that over in Buggy's crew with him taking in other lesser villains like Alvida and Mr. 3.
@Joy_Boy's_Will:
Agreed. Robby has overlooked some subtle clues that Monet's character had layers you don't normally see.
The astronomy passion would have also been a unique crew "job" and could easily spawn a unique dream.
Ooh, she wore glasses in one panel! And she blushed once! Such layers! So did Tashigi! (who had an actual quirk with her glasses!)
She reads books! So do Nami and Robin!
There was a bit more to her, yes. She was clearly obsessed with the sky, given the astrology book and asking Law to make her a bird. There's a little something there, that one panel. But that was it. Anything else is and was pure fan inserting personality traits that weren't there, with such assumptions that have now sat in place for three years they're taken as fact… such as her "letting Chopper go" which is blatantly not what happened, and should have been forever dismissed after Law revealed he had his powers still in the very next chapter... instead of lingering like it has.
Unless you count the decades long loyalty to Dofla... which the entire Dofla family had, including Vergo who was introduced at about the same time. Hell, we didn't even know she had a sister in Sugar until Oda brought it up in an SBS, since neither character ever mentioned it in any way. Hell, through all of Dresserossa, Sugar isn't even mildly upset that her sister "died" yesterday. Had both of them been wearing matching bracelets or earrings or something, that'd at least be something.
Senor Pink had way more going for him, including a tragic sympathetic flashback. But he was an ugly dude in a diaper who treated women terribly, so of course he was never for even one post discussed, while Baby 5 and Monet got entire threads.
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You literally just described Robin exactly in every single way. You've just had 15 years and Water 7 to get used to the her.
Kinda. Except, Robin pretty much right away as soon as she got any development, and she was incredibly passive as a character until then, had that "I was doing it for history and wasn't really evil" excuse to fall back on. We didn't get to really examine what kind of person she was as an assassin, or the true depths of her outlook. In fact, all the development she got was basically to justify her previous actions. There was no scenes where she's having a good time with her friends and then suddenly remembers that one time she was totally okay with Crocodile dropping a bomb on innocent people. There are no scenes after she joins the crew where she finds herself, on instinct, about to do something cruel and terrible because that's what she was used to doing most of her life. That's just never brought up, ever. Any villain aspect of her character was dropped like… mid-Alabasta. If any of what you talked about remained afterwards, it was gone completely by Water 7. After that, she's barely in the spotlight at all, and when she is, it's either for exposition or for a Cute Thing joke.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Robin's character, and I'm mostly happy with her development... but it's not the same as what I'm talking about. I'd like to see Oda take the few darker shades we got from her very early characterization, and go even further with it.
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@Joy_Boy's_Will:
Agreed. Robby has overlooked some subtle clues that Monet's character had layers you don't normally see.
No he didn't. You guys are seeing stuff that isn't there. You're trying to squeeze blood from a stone and find satanic messages in a Beetles song.
With enough spinning and overinterpretation these "clues" you guys are inventing could be seen in literally anyone in the whole series. You're not observing, you're imagining and filling in blanks with personal expectations.
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That's a holdover misinterpretation from people thinking she left the note. She did NOT " watch Chopper go away and didn't do anything about it."
She heard a noise but did not see Chopper.The scene was intended as "He was almost noticed but barely escaped".
But because people were fanficcing from when he got the note teleported to him from Law, they instead read it as "she is secretly plotting a conspiracy."
Robin, ad the effort put into her intro, is obvious in hindsight.
But anyone that had made a claim of her being next nakama at that point would have been pure blind guessing and an idiot… and ultimately right sheerly based on the fact that everyone female gets guessed now. Now, if you noticed how she was acting throughout the arc and picked up other clues that there was more to her than met the eye, especially at the point where she helped Luffy, then a legitimate case could have been made.
Similarly, guessing at Franky when he was still in a mask and a bully would have been dumb... but the instant his real design was revealed... it should have been over. If Pauly hadn't been a decent red herring at the time. And then we got the flashback and he appeared in a color spread... it just shouldn't have been any question at that juncture.
I had forgotten that people seriously suggested Caimie. Uggh. "SHe's got to be close to thirty! No doubt her tail will split any time now! And her complete inability to fight combined with her habit of being useless and captured won't get tiresome at all!"
At least Shirley was older, had a unique design (including unusual eyes) and connection to Arlong, but that was pretty ridiculous too.
Baby 5 at least some of the misguided insights were okay, since she did end up with Sai and as part of Luffy's armada. She had the qualities and position of an ally... but not a strawhat.
I have some points:
1. So who wrote that note to chopper? Was it ever revealed? Sounds like a plot hole, unless Oda plans to address it in the future(With monet still alive…?)
2. Brownbeard never had a strong following because he kept getting his ass kicked. Not every 'Monet for nakama' supporter cares about her boobs.. we all want someone who can hold their own.. and so far every character has done that in the respective chapters they joined.
3. Speculation is not a sin. Not everything has to be 100% fact before it's discussed and supported.
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@Joy_Boy's_Will:
I have some points:
1. So who wrote that note to chopper? Was it ever revealed? Sounds like a plot hole, unless Oda plans to address it in the future.?)
Law. He explained it THE VERY NEXT CHAPTER. When he revealed his seastone cuffs weren't actually seastone and he had full use of his powers?
2. Brownbeard never had a strong following because he kept getting his ass kicked. Not every 'Monet for nakama' supporter cares about her boobs.. we all want someone who can hold their own.. and so far every character has done that in the respective chapters they joined.
He kept going after taking gun blasts to the face, does that count for nothing? He also did not poison children, defended his friends and comrades, and got along well with the strawhats. Loyalty and determination count for a lot.
And most of the strawhats have had troubles dealing with anything on their island when we first meet them. Zoro and Jinbe were tied up when we first met them, and Usopp, Chopper, Sanji, and Brook all desperately needed help to deal with their problems. Nami was self dependant at first but fell to pieces once they got to Arlong. Robin and Franky are the only ones that can really be said to have won a lot of battles prior to their joining, and Robin of course also became completely useless once faced with the threat of a Buster Call
3. Speculation is not a sin. Not everything has to be 100% fact before it's discussed and supported.
No, its not. But speculation is based on facts, evidence, studying patterns and author habits and what is actually on the page. Theorizing based on evidence…
What you are talking about is blindly saying something you would like to happen based on nothing except personal preference.
One holds more weight and leads to better discussion that the other.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Kinda. Except, Robin pretty much right away as soon as she got any development, and she was incredibly passive as a character until then, had that "I was doing it for history and wasn't really evil" excuse to fall back on. We didn't get to really examine what kind of person she was as an assassin, or the true depths of her outlook.
Except that time she tried to snap Moria's neck. Or when she broke spines on at least two different ocassions. Or when she beat the crap out of Pell.
In fact, all the development she got was basically to justify her previous actions.
And isn't that EXACTLY what you'd want with an evil character joining the goodguys? Development?
There was no scenes where she's having a good time with her friends and then suddenly remembers that one time she was totally okay with Crocodile dropping a bomb on innocent people. There are no scenes after she joins the crew where she finds herself, on instinct, about to do something cruel and terrible because that's what she was used to doing most of her life.
She keeps making morbid observations that mess with the others. Her first observations are often of grisly deaths or ways things could go badly.
That's just never brought up, ever.
Except for Water 7. Which was a three year arc dedicated almost entirely to just that.
Any villain aspect of her character was dropped like… mid-Alabasta.
Except for Water 7 where she agreed to join CP9, frame the strawhats, and kill Iceburg.
If any of what you talked about remained afterwards, it was gone completely by Water 7.
Yes, that was entirely the point of that three year arc. To free her of that stuff. But it still pops up. Like this chapter she saw a man who had been repeatedly stabbed by swords as her first instinct… and then realized it was a monkey.
After that, she's barely in the spotlight at all, and when she is, it's either for exposition or for a Cute Thing joke.
She has done the cute thing joke TWICE in fifteen years. Once with Kuma on thriller bark, or just this week with the dragon drawing.
If you mean "barely in the spotlight at all" you mean "has now had more screentime than Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Brook thanks to the last year", and "is overall more important to the actual central plot than anyone aside from Luffy", or "the one that has connections to the revolutionaries and a bunch of future plot points" I suppose.
I'd like to see Oda take the few darker shades we got from her very early characterization, and go even further with it.
Not gonna happen in a series like this. Robin and Bartomoleo are as dark as it gets.
NONE of the strawhats talk about their past lives post-flashback. None of them. It's not what they do. But, traits do remain.
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@The:
If anyone is going to be a new Nakama, it's Baratie.
I don't know if a floating restaurant would be a good crewmate.
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It can't fit through the doors of the Sunny.
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Except that time she tried to snap Moria's neck. Or when she broke spines on at least two different ocassions. Or when she beat the crap out of Pell.
Fighting style doesn't mean all that much in the long run, though. Zoro also has a fairly brutal fighting style, and he's mostly heroic. Heck, one of the main staples in Franky's arsenal involves trying to set people on fire, and that's not treated as a big deal. Same with Robin.
And isn't that EXACTLY what you'd want with an evil character joining the goodguys? Development?
Yes, but there's a difference between justifying a character's actions, and actually confronting them with their more negative traits. All of Robin's development was to demonstrate how she really had no other choice, or how it was all for a better purpose anyways. It showed how, really, she was a good person deep down all along. Entirely different from what I'm talking about.
She keeps making morbid observations that mess with the others. Her first observations are often of grisly deaths or ways things could go badly.
That's a character quirk. Not the same thing.
Except for Water 7. Which was a three year arc dedicated almost entirely to just that.
So, after maybe two vaguely villain-like moments before joining the crew, neither of which had any lasting consequences, at all, she takes on a passive supporting role in the crew for a few arcs, does history stuff, and then right afterwards goes into Water 7. It was a major moment of development, yes, and very well done, but not still doesn't paint her as a villain in any sense, at any point in time. It's not like she was exactly grappling with her darker side before then.
Except for Water 7 where she agreed to join CP9, frame the strawhats, and kill Iceburg.
As part of a heroic sacrifice. For her friends. It's a hero moment. And again, she still gets away without ever actually doing anything bad, at least not anything that gets acknowledged as such by any of the other characters.
Yes, that was entirely the point of that three year arc. To free her of that stuff. But it still pops up. Like this chapter she saw a man who had been repeatedly stabbed by swords as her first instinct… and then realized it was a monkey.
Having morbid thoughts is not the same thing as being a villain.
She has done the cute thing joke TWICE in fifteen years. Once with Kuma on thriller bark, or just this week with the dragon drawing.
If you mean "barely in the spotlight at all" you mean "has now had more screentime than Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Brook thanks to the last year", and "is overall more important to the actual central plot than anyone aside from Luffy", or "the one that has connections to the revolutionaries and a bunch of future plot points" I suppose.
In terms of actual character moments, though? She's really just been kept to smiling in the background while other characters do things. If she's really been that important to the plot, it hasn't shown in specific character moments. And certainly not in context with any of her previous experiences or actions.
Not gonna happen in a series like this. Robin and Bartomoleo are as dark as it gets.
NONE of the strawhats talk about their past lives post-flashback. None of them. It's not what they do. But, traits do remain.
I don't know, I think Oda can manage it. He's made some fairly dark subject matter work in a shonen context before. I have full confidence that he'd be able to make a more evil-aligned character fit within the crew, and have that work without changing the tone too much.
Really though, was Robin ever really a villain to begin with? If anything, she only acted as a helper to the real antagonist, and a fairly dubious one at that. Remember that, before Alabasta even reached its climax, Robin had put herself at risk to betray Crocodile for heroic reasons, with no one else prompting her to do so, and was recognized as sympathetic by Luffy. Which brings me to my first point. I want a character who starts out as being really, genuinely, evil at first, and is able to carry over some of the traits that made them villain into their new identity as a Straw Hat.
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You are literally describing Robin. She was willingly aligned with badguys because she chose to work with them, did lots of bad stuff that we know of, including assassination, initially frightened the crew, had a personality completely different from everyone else and did not mingle well, has darker insights and impulses, will fight in underhanded ways, and learned to grow and change after joining the group, in a slow gradual process still taking place 15 years later.
You can't just ignore that she does the dark things by saying "oh, but that's just a joke" or "But she hasn't done it THAT much lately" or "sure she had an entire arc dedicated to escaping her past but it doesn't count"… but then think it would be treated any different with someone else... especially someone else with less series time to grow and change in.
She did and is every single thing you want and has supplied all those dynamics already, for FIFTEEN YEARS! Just not as EXTREME as you seem to want. Yes, she always had a good side... she never would have been accepted into the strawhats without it.
You're not going to get a second, even darker villain filling the exact same role and character arc at this point, nor would Luffy allow a truly terrible person into his crew. He's a good judge of character, and still had issues with working even briefly with Crocodile (but no qualms at all about Buggy or Mr. 3).
Are you one of the people that seriously wants Perona or Caribou or Ceaser in the crew?
Ceaser has all the same qualities Monet had, and is actually actively with the crew right now. And he's a logia! With an ambitious goal of being best scientist in the world! And he should be on the run for the rest of the series and will lead to conflict with at least two emporers and eventually Vegapunk, all big story stuff we know is coming. But he also definitely poisoned children, shot his own minions, tried to kill people and has no social skills around the others, and is totally iredeemable, and no one on the crew likes him. Does that fit the criteria?
Oh, and he's also a completely silly doof out of his own arc and in Strawhat custody with the attempted escapes and fake mustache and all.
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@Bartholemew:
But the Baratie is quite large. No way it fits through the Sunny's doors.
It can't fit through the doors of the Sunny.
Tsk tsk, and even on the same page too.
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Science. Really?
Wouldn't be the first time science was used to explain something. I mostly wanted to share the random fact that Chopper might be capable of seeing ultraviolet light, since he was originally a reindeer.
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Just out of curiosity, is there a shonen series on which females don't get massively outnumbered by males??
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Just out of curiosity, is there a shonen series on which females don't get massively outnumbered by males??
Is Claymore shonen?
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Is Claymore shonen?
Good question. I know it's appeared in mags like Monthly (and other forms like weekly and the American version) Shonen Jump but is usually described as 'dark fantasy'.
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Just out of curiosity, is there a shonen series on which females don't get massively outnumbered by males??
uh….Soul Eater? Seems even there.
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Carrot can't sit on the Sunny's chair.
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You are literally describing Robin. She was willingly aligned with badguys because she chose to work with them, did lots of bad stuff that we know of, including assassination, initially frightened the crew, had a personality completely different from everyone else and did not mingle well, has darker insights and impulses, will fight in underhanded ways, and learned to grow and change after joining the group, in a slow gradual process still taking place 15 years later.
You can't just ignore that she does the dark things by saying "oh, but that's just a joke" or "But she hasn't done it THAT much lately" or "sure she had an entire arc dedicated to escaping her past but it doesn't count"… but then think it would be treated any different with someone else... especially someone else with less series time to grow and change in.
Except in the context of how her actions are portrayed, that doesn't really make her a former villain, as much as it makes her a misunderstood anti-hero. In all the parts dealing with her escaping her past, she was always the victim. It was always external forces that made her do bad things, not her nature. Her character arc was more about trusting others to the extent that she could allow herself to be a good person. I'm talking more about a character who was actually a complete scoundrel from the beginning, and who chooses to make an internal change on her own. What I'm talking about is similar to Robin, yes. But the differences are vital enough to justify a completely different Straw Hat.
She did and is every single thing you want and has supplied all those dynamics already, for FIFTEEN YEARS! Just not as EXTREME as you seem to want. Yes, she always had a good side… she never would have been accepted into the strawhats without it.
But that aspect of her character hasn't been brought up once after Water 7, and was treaded on very lightly in the arcs leading up to it. It barely counts as a part of her character anymore. The ONLY time I can imagine it coming up again is if Vivi ever becomes an important character again, but that's about it.
You're not going to get a second, even darker villain filling the exact same role and character arc at this point, nor would Luffy allow a truly terrible person into his crew. He's a good judge of character, and still had issues with working even briefly with Crocodile (but no qualms at all about Buggy or Mr. 3).
The fact that you brought up how Luffy easily and willingly worked with "Uses his own friends as a shield" Buggy and Mr. "Turns people into wax statues" 3 helps my point a whole lot, actually. Even his interaction with Crocodile is telling on its own. Notice how Luffy's main objection to letting him go free was that Crocodile almost destroyed Vivi's country, and how he only relented after Crocodile explicitly said that he had no interest in that one place in particular. Luffy's sense of morality really only extends to who he happens to be friends with at any given moment… he really is just a pirate at heart, albeit an exceptionally nice one. I can easily imagine him overlooking the past actions of another villain in the same fashion. Bellamy would be another great example. And it's already been stated that Luffy has a talent for bringing out the good in people. So it's not as if there isn't already a precedent for what I'm talking about.
Are you one of the people that seriously wants Perona or Caribou or Ceaser in the crew?
Ceaser has all the same qualities Monet had, and is actually actively with the crew right now. And he's a logia! With an ambitious goal of being best scientist in the world! And he should be on the run for the rest of the series and will lead to conflict with at least two emporers and eventually Vegapunk, all big story stuff we know is coming. But he also definitely poisoned children, shot his own minions, tried to kill people and has no social skills around the others, and is totally iredeemable, and no one on the crew likes him. Does that fit the criteria?
Oh, and he's also a completely silly doof out of his own arc and in Strawhat custody with the attempted escapes and fake mustache and all.
I wasn't going to bring him up, because I already got enough flak for backing Monet, but since you mentioned it… absolutely.
In a lot of ways, Caesar even fits what I was talking about earlier better than Monet did. And it's not completely implausible, either. Think of it this way. Caesar's pretty much completely alone right now. As soon as he sees Luffy and Law strolling into Zou alive, he'll realize that the one person who he believed in more than himself has been defeated. Moreover, it would be very apparent to him that now pretty much every single major power in the world would be after him, and not at all in a good way. Also, it's not like the Straw Hats would be entirely willing to just leave him for the next big villain to pick up and use his science for evil. Both parties have very good reason for wanting him to stay on the boat. Under those circumstances, is it not entirely unfeasible that Caesar would be willing to play along with the Strawhat's sense of goodness for a little while, if only to save himself? (We already know that he's not above playing a role, after all.) More to the point, isn't it possible that, given that he spends enough time with the crew, that their sense of friendship might just rub off on him even a little? Enough to make him seriously question the methods he had used until he met them? Wouldn't that, at least on some level, be interesting to read about?
Even his doofiness works well in his favor. I mean, in the one chapter he's been seen in lately, he's shown more comedic chemistry with the other members of the crew in a few pages than Zoro did in the entirety of Dressrosa. So we know there's plenty of room for fun moments of interaction with him.
And yes, it would be difficult for the other Straw Hats to accept him, particularly at first. But, well, as you seem to be fond of mentioning, we already know of one other character who made a similar transition, and can, even if only superficially, relate to him, and perhaps even have moments where she helps him adjust. I mean, I'll fully admit it's a 5% chance at best. But it's a possibility I still like entertaining.
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I'm sorry, but Caesar joining would be one of the worst things to ever happen in One Piece. Even a self-centered coward like Perona or someone who is basically girl Chopper like Carrot is ten times more suitable then a megalomaniacal, child-murdering sociopath like him.
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Yeah… we're done talking.
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Figured as much.
As long as I could convince you that "boobs" wasn't the only reason to possibly back Monet, though, I'm entirely cool with leaving it there.
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Law. He explained it THE VERY NEXT CHAPTER. When he revealed his seastone cuffs weren't actually seastone and he had full use of his powers?
That whole scene is ambiguous. We're talking about an author that needs to clear up that Absa is Absalom and Koala is Koala for his younger readers. Even if Law can teleport the note, I don't see how he can actually write anything down with his hands tied. If it was that simple, Oda would have had Law tell the Straw Hats he told Chopper to stay back.
And there's no indication as to what Monet is thinking when Chopper runs away. It's obvious later on that she wants to kill him, but at the time, it looked like she could be letting him escape.
I was never on board with her being a Straw Hat, but there was always something more with her. The note taking, the wings, Sugar's sister. There's a reason Oda "killed" her off so she couldn't just return to Dressrosa.
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You guys always forget what is actually written on the note:
"don't do anything-ya" -
That whole scene is ambiguous.
It's really, REALLY not.
It's only ambiguous if you're running personal theories that Monet is a secretly a good guy and sent the note. Otherwise, it's completely blatant that it was Law. The actual message has his speech quirk in it, the paper appears with the Room effect, he says one page later for the cliffhanger "it's time to act", and he explains one chapter later (about four pages later in the volume) how he did it.
It's not confusing to anyone except Monet fans who want to see more than there is.
Even if Law can teleport the note, I don't see how he can actually write anything down with his hands tied.
Have you seen the crap he can do with Room? He doesn't need his hands to spin around dozens of objects. I'm sure he can manipulate a pen.
If it was that simple, Oda would have had Law tell the Straw Hats he told Chopper to stay back.
And thus spoil the surprise that Law wasn't actually cuffed for the last four chapters and ruin the dramatic moment and escape? That came the next chapter. Like, 20 seconds later in-story, four pages later, as soon as Monet left the room.
And there's no indication as to what Monet is thinking when Chopper runs away. It's obvious later on that she wants to kill him, but at the time, it looked like she could be letting him escape.
Again. The context is "she thinks she heard a sound but didn't really see anything."
What everyone else reading saw was "oh, Chopper got away just before she saw him!"
not "Monet let him go!"It's not ambiguous in any way, shape, or form unless you're putting an extreme bias in there to add elements to the character, and the scene, that don't exist and were never in any way implied by the author… and that mostly could only stem from a bad translation in the first place leaving out Law's speech quirk.
No one in Japan was in the slightest confused by this.
The note taking, the wings, Sugar's sister. There's a reason Oda "killed" her off so she couldn't just return to Dressrosa.
The wings were the same thing as all of Brownbeard's crew, and so was unique in that there were about 20 people with the exact same thing going on in that arc. Being Sugar's sister wasn't even addressed once in story, it was a random SBS fact that came two years after she "died", its not something you would find interesting about her during Punk Hazard. (The fact that Sugar never mentioned "My sister died fighting the strawhats YESTERDAY" is telling that its a non thing… Oda may not have even decided on that until later when he was coming up with Sugar's color scheme. The two don't even interact in flashback) So that leaves with what... she took notes? A personal assistant takes notes, what an intriguing character trait! So did Kaku and Kalifa!
Yes, she had one panel with her studying astrology and wearing glasses in a flashback that implied a lot about her dreams. WHich will no doubt come into play in the cover story she's probably about to have. But it wasn't anything more than that.
Oda "killed" her off because having her and Vergo unconscious for a day kept them out of Dresserossa and thinned the enemies down a little and kept him from repeating too much two arcs in a row.
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Actually the scene was obviously meant to be ambiguous aaaaaand cleared in the following chapters.
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Actually the scene was obviously meant to be ambiguous aaaaaand cleared in the following chapters.
Yes. Four pages later.
There should be zero confusion on the matter after Law revealed his trick.
Same think going on with mink-lady this chapter. People are making up crazy theories that she's a transformed Nami that has learned to ride giant monsters, use a sword, change her speaking style and forget the strawhats. Rather than just going with "she's got Nami's clothes somehow."
It should be explained very quickly next chapter, and if after that the weird theories and confusion persist then… that's the reader's fault. And when it's ultimately in the trade, and the explanation is seperate from the cliffhanger by a page, instead of a week or time, it won't be a thing at all.
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And thus spoil the surprise that Law wasn't actually cuffed and ruin the dramatic moment? That came the next chapter. Like, 20 seconds later in-story, as soon as Monet left the room.
I mean when he reveals the cuff switch. Something like "By the way, I told your doctor to stay put." Or Chopper asks Law if he threw the note when they meet up later on. If something like that confused part of the forum for weeks, I can't imagine what it did to the poor guy who couldn't figure out the Gura Gura fruit was a Paramecia. Oda is usually a lot better with spelling things out.
Again. The context is "she thinks she heard a sound but didn't really see anything."
What everyone else reading saw was "oh, Chopper got away just before she saw him!" not "Monet let him go!"
Either interpretation could work. Chopper runs away. Panel of Monet going "…" It's clear later on she didn't let him go, but I really can't blame those that thought she did at the time.
It's not ambiguous in any way, shape, or form unless you're putting an extreme bias in there to add elements to the character, and the scene, that don't exist and were never in any way implied by the author… and that mostly could only stem from a bad translation in the first place leaving out Law's speech quirk.
Alright, if the -ya is there, then that's definitely an obvious way of explaining it and I take back everything I said regarding the note. But mangastream and mangarule don't have it. Can somebody point which character is the -ya?
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The wings were the same thing as all of Brownbeard's crew, and so was unique in that there were about 20 people with the exact same thing going on in that arc. Being Sugar's sister wasn't even addressed once in story, it was a random SBS fact that came two years after she "died", its not something you would find interesting about her during Punk Hazard. (The fact that Sugar never mentioned "My sister died fighting the strawhats YESTERDAY" is telling that its a non thing… Oda may not have even decided on that until later when he was coming up with Sugar's color scheme) So that leaves with what... she took notes? A personal assistant takes notes, what an intriguing character trait! So did Kaku and Kalifa!
The centaurs are there because Caesar's gas paralyzed them and Hawkins cut off Brownbeard's legs. Monet has no reasons to have wings or talons. We saw her from before Law came and she was completely fine. There's gotta be a reason she'd want those.
Note taking is important because it's unrelated to her mission… unless Doffy and Caesar are interested in studying the stars? She's surrounded by books and writing stuff down for the first half of the arc.
Oda "killed" her off because having her and Vergo unconscious for a day kept them out of Dresserossa and thinned the enemies down a little and kept him from repeating too much two arcs in a row.
Or because it's important these two didn't get arrested or stuck with their crew. Like Jango, Miss Goldenweek, Gedatsu, Perona, Wadatsumi. Whether it's saving their family or going off to do their own thing, their story isn't done.
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Are Minkmen only going to be represented as mammals? It looks like the theme here.
Do y'all think Bepo and Pekoms are from the Mink tribe? Bepo being a Mink would explain why Zou was important to go to. Could get some information about the both of them.PS: Could someone please answer FrankyFan's inquiry about which character the -ya is in the note Chopper read at Punk Hazard? I would like to know also.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
My guess on this whole a Minkmen joining is they need to really standout. Robby has been repeatedly saying there needs to be uniqueness factors that makes the nakama shine above the others in their introduction and so forth.
So...what would make a Minkmen be unique compared to other Minkmen? Here are some guesses :
1. Bald in one or multiple parts of their body or furless(this would be hilarious to me)
2. Maybe a fusion of Minkmen and Snakeneck(would make for a good back story)
3. IF it was a girl something different from Nami or Robin...like a masculine overprotective chick or agile nerd with glasses(the girls of the crew seem to be avid readers)
4. The role on the ship could relate to the strength of whatever animal they are. Example being a cat Minkmen may have really good vision especially at night. So they may be the Lookout (A quirk could be NEVER landing on their feet when they fall)
But this is all just speculation.
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The note says 'nani mo suru na'.
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Or because it's important these two didn't get arrested or stuck with their crew. Like Jango, Miss Goldenweek, Gedatsu, Perona, Wadatsumi. Whether it's saving their family or going off to do their own thing, their story isn't done.
Well yeah, of course the cover story. Same as Blueno not making it to the main Enies Lobby battle. But Oda's pushed and pushed back that story due to Dresserossa taking so long, so… we'll get there when we get there.
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That whole scene is ambiguous. We're talking about an author that needs to clear up that Absa is Absalom and Koala is Koala for his younger readers. Even if Law can teleport the note, I don't see how he can actually write anything down with his hands tied. If it was that simple, Oda would have had Law tell the Straw Hats he told Chopper to stay back.
And there's no indication as to what Monet is thinking when Chopper runs away. It's obvious later on that she wants to kill him, but at the time, it looked like she could be letting him escape.
I was never on board with her being a Straw Hat, but there was always something more with her. The note taking, the wings, Sugar's sister. There's a reason Oda "killed" her off so she couldn't just return to Dressrosa.
Something that was confirmed in the SBS and not dramatically revealed in the story.
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@Bartholemew:
The note says 'nani mo suru na'.
So…there is no "-ya" in the note per how Law talks? Well that takes away that given it was Law unless there is something I'm missing.