Any ideas on what jack the broker is gonna be like. In real life he was associated with anne bonney and that other woman. In pirates of caribbean franchise that clownish, perceptivee, clever pirate. Blacksails he has similar role to both the jack in the pirates of caribbean and the bonney association in real life. So did he free bonney? What did that broker imply that his involvement would bring shit to…..that other level perhaps. But to what fraction? Doffy? Strawheart alliance? Marines? Underworld? Could he be the unknown warlord? If he don't play the role of antagonist as warlord, i mean after doffy there should be no tension in taking on warlords. could Jack be one piece final villain: strawhat opponent? Part of me wish one of the 5 star elders would be a broker. That would make things sooo much more interesting.
Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0
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Maybe Jack is just the the personal broker of an other Yonko. Like Joker is Kaido's broker.
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Well the fight will take at least 50 chapters plus 70 chapters of flashbacks.
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@Monkey:
Well you're wrong sorry.
Nice argument there chief.
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The reasoning comes from like 30 different post this thread, Blackbeard as a person has only like 50 chapters less than the WG buildup as a danger.
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I don't think Blackbeard will be the final villain, even though he might be Luffy's last fight before he becomes the Pirate King, i'm pretty sure One Piece will continue after that.
So i think that when he reaches Raftel thus becoming the Pirate King, a vital part of the plot will be uncovered and it'll lead to a final arc or final sequence of arcs against the World Government or whoever's above.
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Blackbeard will be the final pirat the Strawhats will battle. This will make Luffy the strongest pirate on the 5 seas. With that he will be the pirate king.
Then the WG will have no choice to go all out on the Strawhats. And when the Gorosei are beaten, the revos will take over the world and create a new society in which everyone is on equal grounds and the mysteries of the void century will be revealed to the world. The will of D will be explained.A timeskip of 50 years will show an aged Luffy in Loguetown ready to be executioned by the new uncorrupted Marine under the leed of fleet admiral Coby. With his final words Monkey D Luffy will set off the newest age of pirates.
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Blackbeard will be the final pirat the Strawhats will battle.
Well, this statement is true by sentential logic.
A timeskip of 50 years will show an aged Luffy in Loguetown ready to be executioned by the new uncorrupted Marine under the leed of fleet admiral Coby. With his final words Monkey D Luffy will set off the newest age of pirates.
Why should the uncorrupted Marine want to execute Luffy? Because he is a pirate? Because he is evil because he is a pirate? If they decide to execut him, what exactly is supposed to be the difference between your new uncorrupted Marine and the actual one? And what exactly is Coby's motivation and reasoning in this scenario?
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A timeskip of 50 years will show an aged Luffy in Loguetown ready to be executioned by the new uncorrupted Marine under the leed of fleet admiral Coby. With his final words Monkey D Luffy will set off the newest age of pirates.
No. He will retire on Sabaody and become a coating mechanic.
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I can see him retiring on Sabaody just to ride bubbles all day.
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I've always pictured him acting like Shanks to some kid in Fuusha, passing on the Straw Hat and telling him to go be a pirate. Sounds super cliche but Oda isn't exactly new to the parallel game.
Another ending would just be the Straw Hats (maybe slightly older, I dunno) sailing off into the sunset, Luffy eager for a brand new adventure.
The "Usopp the narrator telling the story" could be really great too, but only if he's married to Kaya!
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I've always pictured him acting like Shanks to some kid in Fuusha, passing on the Straw Hat and telling him to go be a pirate. Sounds super cliche but Oda isn't exactly new to the parallel game.
Another ending would just be the Straw Hats (maybe slightly older, I dunno) sailing off into the sunset, Luffy eager for a brand new adventure.
The "Usopp the narrator telling the story" could be really great too, but only if he's married to Kaya!
Sanji will marry Nami. Turns out Sanji is a prince for real and Nami will marry him for his treasure money.:ninja:
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@uniaka:
Sanji will marry Nami. Turns out Sanji is a prince for real and Nami will marry him for his treasure money.:ninja:
Sanji would be a great trophy husband.
Because we all know Nami wears the pants in any relationship :ninja:
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i hope final villain wont be same as naruto
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If Oda goes the random hot as fuck rabbit goddess route, he better does it right. The rabbit goddess doesn't need characterization, background or some reasonable decision making abilities. No, all of this also is completely random. Just make sure she is hot - and not fucking ugly!
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@Bartholemew:
If Oda goes the random hot as fuck rabbit goddess route, he better does it right. The rabbit goddess doesn't need characterization, background or some reasonable decision making abilities. No, all of this also is completely random. Just make sure she is hot - and not fucking ugly!
And she must be the boob boob no mi user:ninja:
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@uniaka:
And she must be the boob boob no mi user:ninja:
Wait, does that mean the reason that everyone's boobs constantly get bigger is because she's using her awakened powers? But that actually would be foreshadowing… And there MUST NOT be any foreshadowing.
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I've always pictured him acting like Shanks to some kid in Fuusha, passing on the Straw Hat and telling him to go be a pirate. Sounds super cliche but Oda isn't exactly new to the parallel game.
Another ending would just be the Straw Hats (maybe slightly older, I dunno) sailing off into the sunset, Luffy eager for a brand new adventure.
The "Usopp the narrator telling the story" could be really great too, but only if he's married to Kaya!
Same here, I have this picture in my mind the ending being the same as the beginning, Luffy spending time in Makino's bar and passing on the straw hat to some kid. And I think that kid already exists.
I wouldn't really mind the Usopp ending either though, that would be hillarious.
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I can see One Piece ending with all three of them happening. Luffy giving away his Straw Hat and then sailing off into the sea - with Usopp's narrative words being the very final text.
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I can't vote, but it is okay. I read all (germa)-66 pages of this (I won't do the same for 1.0 - sorry Monkey King I know most of your stuff is over there, but….yeah no). Do I have a life? -No. But insomnia helps with that. So I'll post my joke predictions first:
1. Like someone said Gol D. Roger is the final enemy.
2. Actually that was the only one. After reading all the thread the probability of Blackbeard being the final villain rose by 10% (it's at 80%). Main reason: He has been built up from Volume 15!
3. I agree that a multi-faction war will happen at the end. If the BB pirates are there, I'll wait another 100 chapters to be more conclusive.
4. Gorosei are strong, and I DOUBT this but they could be the opponents for the original Strawhat crew (WOW, am I insane? Power lev....meh) while the other half goes around solving things like lowering bridges for plot. Maybe I should put this with the joke predictions.I know a lot of people are talking about how the Gorosei/WG are about balance and preservation. However I'd appreciate if anyone could point me to the chapter, or a better translation of the next image. I bring this up on the topic of what Law said about them preparing their forces for something (upset the balance) I wonder if the image could serve as further...."evidence" ugh..this is too serious.
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@Tamiel:
1. Like someone said Gol D. Roger is the final enemy.
! I am thinking about what happened on Toriko
Thank you for spoilering me the series mentioned inside the spoiler tags.:getlost:
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@Bartholemew:
Thank you for spoilering me the series mentioned inside the spoiler tags.:getlost:
That is why it was in spoilers.
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I forgot to add the note that it was from another show. I'll be more careful.
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The problem is that the name of the show actually is the crucial information in order to decide whether to read the spoiler or not.
Unfortunately this information still is inside the spoiler.
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Alright, I took the spoiler off, given that putting the name outside would be as much as a spoiler in my opinion. I apologize again for the damage done.
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It just was the unlucky coincidence that it was a series I tried to avoid spoilers, but Toriko spoilers
! looking at the mere existence of subtitles I knew there will be something that heavily will me make care way less.
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I had a hard time deciding wether I should chose Blackbeard or Other. The first has been build up as a nemesis for a long time, however I doubt he will be the last enemy the Straw Hats have to face. Ended up with the BB option never the less because it is the most likely opinion at this point of the story.
If a great war happens after Luffy found the One Piece, literally anybody can be his final opponent. It could be a member of the marines, another pirate who wants to claim the title or even Dragon.
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I had a hard time deciding wether I should chose Blackbeard or Other. The first has been build up as a nemesis for a long time, however I doubt he will be the last enemy the Straw Hats have to face. Ended up with the BB option never the less because it is the most likely opinion at this point of the story.
If a great war happens after Luffy found the One Piece, literally anybody can be his final opponent. It could be a member of the marines, another pirate who wants to claim the title or even Dragon.
There is no way Dragon is going to be the final villain. Really now.
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@Tamiel:
3. I agree that a multi-faction war will happen at the end. If the BB pirates are there, I'll wait another 100 chapters to be more conclusive.
What did you think of my theory about the thematics of that final multi-faction conflict.
About Luffy and Blackbeard representing different sides of freedom (or whatever exactly), and that the WG ultimately was just the conservative status quo villain holding back both the dark and light that those two represent?
I think that's an important framing to think about in terms of the WG not being the final villain in whatever form (Akainu, Gorosei).I know a lot of people are talking about how the Gorosei/WG are about balance and preservation. However I'd appreciate if anyone could point me to the chapter, or a better translation of the next image. I bring this up on the topic of what Law said about them preparing their forces for something (upset the balance) I wonder if the image could serve as further…."evidence" ugh..this is too serious.
They aren't talking there. Spandam is.
Notice the "….." speech balloon coming from the tall Gorosei. -
The real question to me who is who beats akainu?
I hear sabo but part of me doesnt like that idea.
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@Long:
The real question to me who is who beats akainu?
I hear sabo but part of me doesnt like that idea.
I'm conflicted on that.
It seems like it should be Luffy, but how many big bads will Oda allow him to take out near the end???
Likewise part of me thinks Sabo is the most likely, which would also fulfill the Ace avenging that Luffy wants.
And then part of me thinks because of the Marine Civil War that will eventually happened that Akainu will be taken out by….Smoker...Aokiji......Coby?? Someone.
All and all though, I'd say Sabo has the highest odds favoring him. Him having Ace's fruit is another heavy thing in his favor.
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@Monkey:
What did you think of my theory about the thematics of that final multi-faction conflict.
About Luffy and Blackbeard representing different sides of freedom (or whatever exactly), and that the WG ultimately was just the conservative status quo villain holding back both the dark and light that those two represent?
I think that's an important framing to think about in terms of the WG not being the final villain in whatever form (Akainu, Gorosei).I like it, and it's probably one of the most fleshed out concepts that you can actually point towards in chapters and agree on. To be honest, those are the reason why Blackbeard is the strongest candidate for final villain in my whole percentage thing. I also agree on the Marine's civil war, but for some reason I thought that Akainu would stage it towards the Gorosei for whatever is happening in the world around the end of the series and the hints of conflict between them during Dressrosa. However it seems way more plausible that there will be a good vs bad marines. Though the concept of having a three way struggle (in an already three way struggling war) between good(Coby, Smoker), bad (Akainu, Kizaru?) and the ugly (Gorosei -which would want to reform the army, and not keep either side, but a new one) would be also interesting, it gives a more grey conflict instead of just good and evil.
They aren't talking there. Spandam is.
Notice the "….." speech balloon coming from the tall Gorosei.Thanks, I ran into the image on a search, but couldn't find the chapter. Is it before the Gorosei tell him off by saying: "First, get the blueprints, then we'll talk"?.
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@Tamiel:
I like it, and it's probably one of the most fleshed out concepts that you can actually point towards in chapters and agree on. To be honest, those are the reason why Blackbeard is the strongest candidate for final villain in my whole percentage thing. I also agree on the Marine's civil war, but for some reason I thought that Akainu would stage it towards the Gorosei for whatever is happening in the world around the end of the series and the hints of conflict between them during Dressrosa. However it seems way more plausible that there will be a good vs bad marines. Though the concept of having a three way struggle (in an already three way struggling war) between good(Coby, Smoker), bad (Akainu, Kizaru?) and the ugly (Gorosei -which would want to reform the army, and not keep either side, but a new one) would be also interesting, it gives a more grey conflict instead of just good and evil.
I think you can have the Marine Civil War AND a coup against the Gorosei. Akainu taking control of the WG would radicalize it in the final hours and if anything be the last straw to that split in the ranks. Or not. It's not required exactly.
Thanks, I ran into the image on a search, but couldn't find the chapter. Is it before the Gorosei tell him off by saying: "First, get the blueprints, then we'll talk"?.
Yes, it's exactly that scene.
It also bears in mind (since people always bring that plot up when I talk about the Gorosei) that the basic plan to get the blueprints and Robin was also clearly supported by Aokiji. I understand people may not be always convinced that the Gorosei aren't at all on board with Spandam because they still approve the overall mission? But surely people wouldn't think Aokiji would approve with Spandam's personal thoughts, and he still backs the mission (including giving Spandam a buster call snail).
Obviously Aokiji supports (based off what he knows) getting the blueprints out of the "wild" and under WG supervision, and also getting Robin out of the same and even killing her if need be. But NOT reviving the weapons.
As it is with him, it is with the Gorosei. -
Whoo. Here I thought I opened a can of worms. Thankfully Tamiel is a reasonable dude and no stupidity was induced by me suggesting this thread to him.
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Whoo. Here I thought I opened a can of worms. Thankfully Tamiel is a reasonable dude and no stupidity was induced by me suggesting this thread to him.
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When the time for Luffy's battle with Teech comes, the fight won't be against Teech only, it'll be against the 'Blackbeard pirates'. While the Blackbeard pirates have been depicted as the most dangerous 'pirates' on the seas for a while, they still don't hold a candle to the power of the world government. Let's just recall what happened in the past: the world government overthrew the ancient kingdom and has reigned supreme over the world for 800 years. And let's not forget how things in One Piece have been introduced to us: the marines hunt down pirates, and the latter flees from the forces of either the world government or the celestial dragons (after all, their forefathers, the creators, are the ones who created the world government to begin with). A recent example of this is the Bleackbeard pirates and the CP0. So, as you can see, guys, the most dangerous and most powerful villain that there is in One Piece is not Teech but the WG. So, it only stands to reason for the wg to be the final villain.
In the past week's chapter, we saw that Teech succeeded in attacking the revolutionaries' HQ both to retrieve Burgess and get his hands on the profusion of weapons that the revos acquired from Dressrosa.
Those weapons will certainly increase the revolutionaries' chances of success in their battle against the world government. So, if Teech succeeded in taking possession of those weapons, it only makes sense for those weapons to be retrieved from Teech 'before' the beginning or the conclusion of the final war(= the war against the world government). Retrieving them cannot happen without Teech's defeat, and the most suitable candidate for that fight is Luffy. Therefore, Teech must fall at Luffy's hands before either the beginning or the conclusion of the final war. This will make the world government the final villain. -
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When the time for Luffy's battle with Teech comes, the fight won't be against Teech only, it'll be against the 'Blackbeard pirates'. While the Blackbeard pirates have been depicted as the most dangerous 'pirates' on the seas for a while, they still don't hold a candle to the power of the world government.
Let's just recall what happened in the past: the world government overthrew the ancient kingdom and has reigned supreme over the world for 800 years.Couple really obvious flaws in saying this.
1. They're a Yonkou crew, so by nature they are heavyweights that contend with the World Government on some level. Hell even before the timeskip Blackbeard was wrecking pretty decent havoc against the Marines at Marineford. And being depicted as much more sinister than the Marines as a whole. Foreshadowing is maybe not something you pick up on huh.
2. You say this like the World Government as a whole system would be the enemies of the Strawhats as the final villain. Which is obviously untrue given the whole Marine civil war plot line Oda's been building since forever. The Marines in the final period are pretty obviously going to burst down the middle in some fashion with people like Smoker, Coby, and formers like Aokiji on one side. And people like Akainu, Onigumo and government agents like Spandam on the other. Unless you think none of that endlessly developing plotline populated by dozens of characters is headed anywhere in particular? Which would be a bravely terrible thing to suggest. Also throw in the Revolutionaries as counterweights to the government as well. And even the Blackbeard crew itself since this final conflict would look pretty three-sided for awhile I imagine.
Also all the Strawhat allies like Alabasta and whatnot.
3. The very nature of saying "the world government" shows how weak a suggestion it is. That's an insanely vague unwieldly thing to say, the WG is huge and like I said multi-factioned. That's actually an argument against such a suggestion because it shows how unspecific it ultimately is. As opposed to the extremely organized 11 main heads of the Blackbeard crew.And let's not forget how things in One Piece have been introduced to us: the marines hunt down pirates,
How about YOU don't forget how things were introduced to us lol.
The Marines hunt down pirates, but there are nasty authoritarian Marines, and there are good Marines that genuinely want to help people. And those good Marines really don't have an actual conflict with pirates like Luffy even though current laws dictate they have to. And those Marines may even salute pirates. And stand up to the nasty Marines when they feel what's being done is not really justice.A recent example of this is the Bleackbeard pirates and the CP0. So, as you can see, guys, the most dangerous and most powerful villain that there is in One Piece is not Teech but the WG. So, it only stands to reason for the wg to be the final villain.
Oda has been pretty deliberately depicting Blackbeard as a lurking growing threat that people keep underestimating, even more or less having Shanks be the one of all people to warn Whitebeard and us the readers of this fact.
What looks more like a final villain anyway?
The established multi-faceted sometimes good, sometimes bad organization around since the start?
Or the very clearly dangerous unexpected growing threat that keeps getting bigger.Those weapons will certainly increase the revolutionaries' chances of success in their battle against the world government. So, if Teech succeeded in taking possession of those weapons, it only makes sense for those weapons to be retrieved from Teech 'before' the beginning or the conclusion of the final war (= the war against the world government). Retrieving them cannot happen without Teech's defeat, and the most suitable candidate for that fight is Luffy. Therefore, Teech must fall at Luffy's hands before either the beginning or the conclusion of the final war. This will make the world government the final villain.
Oh wow this is really bad dude.
You're saying the role Blackbeard will fill is a plot device to delay the revolutionary attack on the WG.
A character Oda has been carefully deliberately building up bit by bit since Volume 15.
A character who btw has been characterized as a constantly building thread, constantly getting his hands on more assets and power (like a stockpile of weapons). -
@Monkey:
I'm conflicted on that.
It seems like it should be Luffy, but how many big bads will Oda allow him to take out near the end???
Likewise part of me thinks Sabo is the most likely, which would also fulfill the Ace avenging that Luffy wants.
And then part of me thinks because of the Marine Civil War that will eventually happened that Akainu will be taken out by….Smoker...Aokiji......Coby?? Someone.
All and all though, I'd say Sabo has the highest odds favoring him. Him having Ace's fruit is another heavy thing in his favor.
I'm kind of leaning towards Sabo, as I have a hunch that Sakazuki's final fate is to be either executed or imprisoned for life for his crimes, so being captured by the Revs who in turn will re-structure the WG and hold a trial for him is pretty likely.
Plus, that whole avenging his brother thing.
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It could always be Luffy and Sabo working together to take out Akainu.
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Luffy's already proven he's more than happy to leave something important like getting Ace's fruit in Sabo's hands, he'd be fine in passing off the "must get revenge" thing.
If he even cared about revenge. Which he doesn't.
He hates Aikanu sure, and will punch him in the face if he sees him, but he's hardly been moaning about Itachi's death and how he must be avenged at all costs and nothing else but that matters. It's not a personal goal or something he needs or is sworn to do, it can go to someone else.
And yeah, Sabo makes a lot of sense, especially given AIkanu's "my fruit is just stronger than yours" bit. No idea who will deal with Kizaru though.
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One Piece is a pirate manga and the FV not being a pirate, sounds, well, just plain wrong.
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Luffy's already proven he's more than happy to leave something important like getting Ace's fruit in Sabo's hands, he'd be fine in passing off the "must get revenge" thing.
If he even cared about revenge. Which he doesn't.
He hates Aikanu sure, and will punch him in the face if he sees him, but he's hardly been moaning about Itachi's death and how he must be avenged at all costs and nothing else but that matters. It's not a personal goal or something he needs or is sworn to do, it can go to someone else.
And yeah, Sabo makes a lot of sense, especially given AIkanu's "my fruit is just stronger than yours" bit. No idea who will deal with Kizaru though.
Im curious and this goes for Monkey King too…
Would you guys want to see sabo reveal that fire isnt actually a weakness and that there's another fire that isnt affected by lava or he still has the weakness but works around it by using haki and flames like smoker did on PH. Having 1 turn out true doesnt preclude 2 but Im curious if you guys are alright with the idea or see it as cliche or anything,
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@Long:
Would you guys want to see sabo reveal that fire isnt actually a weakness and that there's another fire that isnt affected by lava
I know it wasn't directed at me, but it sounds like something Hiro Mashima would do, and I hope Oda doesn't go there. He established that some fruits outclass others, him going back on it would just be terrible.
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@Long:
Im curious and this goes for Monkey King too…
Would you guys want to see sabo reveal that fire isnt actually a weakness and that there's another fire that isnt affected by lava or he still has the weakness but works around it by using haki and flames like smoker did on PH. Having 1 turn out true doesnt preclude 2 but Im curious if you guys are alright with the idea or see it as cliche or anything,
Nah, it makes sense that magma is better than fire. Same way Aokiji's ice is better than Monet's Snow, or we've had two strengths of weight fruit now. That aspect is fine.
If its Sabo winning, it should just benot from brute strength of the fruit but haki (showing he has the stronger more pure ambition) and teamwork and ideals and all the shonen-ness. Actually fighting and not being a total hothead idiot would probably help.
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@Monkey:
Couple really obvious flaws in saying this.
Let us let the arguments speak for themselves, ok? ;)
@Monkey:1. They're a Yonkou crew, so by nature they are heavyweights that contend with the World Government on some level.
When Garp introduced the four emperors to us, he said that the marines and the seven warlords, two of the three great powers, exist to counterbalance the four emperors.
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After Doflamingo's defeat, we learned that the marines are just the 'public face' of the world government.
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In other words, the World Government's power extends far beyond that. And since only the public face of the government along with the seven warlords counterbalance all of the four emperors, then it stands to reason to say that the Blackbeard pirates do not hold a candle to the entire power of the Government, because the Blackbeard pirates represent only 1/4 of the entire power that is counterbalanced by only a fraction of the entire power of the government.
@Monkey:Hell even before the timeskip Blackbeard was wrecking pretty decent havoc against the Marines at Marineford. And being depicted as much more sinister than the Marines as a whole. Foreshadowing is maybe not something you pick up on huh.
But Blackbeard was battling against Sengoku and Garp only.
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Those two do not comprise the marines as a whole. Saying that they do would require leaving out legions of other strong characters that truly form the marines as a whole: the three admirals, the entire set of vice admirals minus Garp, the rear admirals, the commodores, etc. If Blackbeard had been clashing against all of these people, I would have agreed with your assertion, but the marine admirals, vice admirals, etc were focused on Luffy's escape and the Whitebeard pirates.
@Monkey:2. You say this like the World Government as a whole system would be the enemies of the Strawhats as the final villain.
The enemy of the SHs, the revolutionaries, and Luffy's allies that he will have acquired in his journey through his ability of turning those around him into his allies.
@Monkey:You say this like the World Government as a whole system would be the enemies of the Strawhats as the final villain. Which is obviously untrue given the whole Marine civil war plot line Oda's been building since forever.The Marines in the final period are pretty obviously going to burst down the middle in some fashion with people like Smoker, Coby, and formers like Aokiji on one side. And people like Akainu, Onigumo and government agents like Spandam on the other
So the idea that the WG will be the final villain is untrue because Oda has been building a marine civil war plot line, huh. And this impending civil war is indicated by what exactly? Smoker, Fujitora, Coby, & Aokiji's disapproval of some of the methods implemented by the world government? How does this (if it is this) guarantee the happening of this civil war?
Let's suppose this marine civil war will truly happen, are Coby, Smoker, Aokiji, and even Fujitora an adequate military power to win that war? They are at best two admirals, one vice admiral, & god-knows-what military rank Coby has now (but I am sure as heck it isn't an admiral rank YET) against two admirals (Green Bull and Kizaru), a fleet admiral (Akainu), possibly a former fleet admiral (Sengoku), dozens of vice admirals, rear admirals, commodores etc. That looks like a lost battle.
Let's just say they somehow won that civil war despite their very low chances of victory against the other powerful individuals (some of whom are of the same level and others of an even higher one), how would their victory not make the government the final antagonist?
@Monkey:Unless you think none of that endlessly developing plotline populated by dozens of characters is headed anywhere in particular? Which would be a bravely terrible thing to suggest.
It's headed somewhere alright, but its destination does not necessarily have to be a civil war, unless you prove otherwise.
@Monkey:3. The very nature of saying "the world government" shows how weak a suggestion it is.
No, it doesn't. My suggestion just stands there being wrongfully accused of being weak because of the simple fact that it was advanced as a suggestion. That's a circular reasoning.
@Monkey:That's an insanely vague unwieldly thing to say, the WG is huge and like I said multi-factioned. That's actually an argument against such a suggestion because it shows how unspecific it ultimately is. As opposed to the extremely organized 11 main heads of the Blackbeard crew.
It is true that the World Government is, for now, unspecific, but it will have to boil down to some main fighters that represent the pillars of that organization. Kong should be one of them.
@Monkey:Oda has been pretty deliberately depicting Blackbeard as a lurking growing threat that people keep underestimating, even more or less having Shanks be the one of all people to warn Whitebeard and us the readers of this fact.
What looks more like a final villain anyway? The established multi-faceted sometimes good, sometimes bad organization around since the start?
Or the very clearly dangerous unexpected growing threat that keeps getting bigger.The WG. It is a more dangerous & more powerful threat than the Blackbeard pirates. It has exited and will continue to exist reigning supreme until something is done about it. Blackbeard, on the other hand, is just an ephemeral existence that will disappear over time.
@Monkey:Oh wow this is really bad dude.
You're saying the role Blackbeard will fill is a plot device to delay the revolutionary attack on the WG.No. I said that Luffy should make possible the retrieval of the weapons by defeating Teech before the beginning or the 'conclusion' of the final war.
! @Australopithecus:
! > Those weapons will certainly increase the revolutionaries' chances of success in their battle against the world government. So, if Teech succeeded in taking possession of those weapons, it only makes sense for those weapons to be retrieved from Teech 'before' the beginning or the conclusion of the final war(= the war against the world government).
In other words, the war could start while Luffy and Teach are duking it out. So as you can see, the retrieval of the weapons before the conclusion of the war won't make the role that Teech will fill a plot device to delay the revolutionaries' attack on the WG.
@Monkey:A character Oda has been carefully deliberately building up bit by bit since Volume 15.
A character who btw has been characterized as a constantly building thread, constantly getting his hands on more assets and power (like a stockpile of weapons).Agreed, but that doesn't guarantee that he'll be the final antagonist. He is likely to be the final pirate antagonist, and that's that.
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Personally I think there are two main plots.
One Piece and then the WG
BB is the only one in contention for the One Piece IMO unless the Navy tries to get involved. As the final goal of the series is One Piece and probs the battle to get there BB has a strong chance to be the final villain
The only thing for me is why would Oda have set the SH in the middle of the whole 'what is justice' thing set it motion by Smoker, Fuji and Coby and not have them participate in the actual overthrow of the Government. For me it does't make sense to me to have the 'Great War' that overthrows the WG to be before the SH reach the One Piece. Also I don't see anyone overthrowing the Government until the true history is revealed which we know is on Raftel. So this makes it seem like those events will happen 1 after the other.
Essentially what I am saying is the WG as a whole will be the final villain with half the Navy/Countries on SH side and the other half on Akainu's/WG side. But once the people know the true history then they will want to overthrow the WG or something. I just don't see the WG going down and THEN the SH fighting the BB pirates
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When Garp introduced the four emperors to us, he said that the marines and the seven warlords, two of the three great powers, exist to counterbalance the four emperors.
What aspect of your argument does this help?
After Doflamingo's defeat, we learn that the marines are just the 'public face' of the world government.
I like you added a "just" in there and made it sound like some conspiracy theory bullshit it isn't. The Marines are the most visible public form of the World Government. Duh. Throughout the series you see lots of Marines. Average people see Marines. The highest levels are sitting way up in Mariejois and a few other islands like Enies Lobby, and the CP organizations are secretive to begin with. We didn't "learn" this after Doflamingo's defeat. It was always known.
A world spanning army is visible, and the ruling cliques that sit above it are not visible. Fucking duh.
The Gorosei are emphasizing it to put Akainu in his place. The whole conversation is about how they're not particularly concerned that Akainu feels disrespected by not being informed about it.In other words, the World Government's power extends far beyond that.
No. Absolutely nothing about that sentence suggests a single thing about proportion. Absolutely nothing about the entire CONVERSATION suggests a single thing about proportion.
It's a conversation about public relations and rank. Akainu is angry that the false news report went above his head, the Gorosei don't care because he's a Marine and stuff like the false news story was a choice made in Mariejois. Akainu then goes on to angrily question and taunt them about whether the World Nobles did it without their knowledge/control through CP0.
And since only the public face of the government along with the seven warlords counterbalance all of the four emperors, then it stands to reason to say that the Blackbeard pirates do not hold a candle to the entire power of the Government,
They counterbalance the Yonkou because they're actually forces on the field. In the sea. You have the Marines and Shichibukai as pieces keeping balance against the Yonkou.
And the WG are the ones who control and direct the Marines (the Marines are literally the army of the WG lol). And they're the ones who make alliances with strong pirates to maintain the Shichibukai ranks. There's also agents and things like that sure, but that would be pedantic to mention alongside the main things.
I still don't have a single fucking clue how you read a phrase like "public face" and imagine an entire fantasy mega army the WG have somewhere or whatever.
It's a phrase you hear all the time irl. It has absolutely no suggestion of fighting power or proportion or anything like that.
There's a part of the WG that people see all the time, and there's a part they don't.But Blackbeard was battling against Sengoku and Garp only.
In a three way struggle? You mean like…other strong Marines were fighting other people? Hmm. Why yes I believe that was the case.
Also it was before the timeskip lol.The enemy of the SHs, the revolutionaries, and Luffy's allies that he will have acquired in his journey through his ability of turning those around him into his allies.
Why yes! Again look at that. Lots of different people who are not the Strawhat crew will be involved in the final battles.
So the idea that the WG will be the final villain is untrue because Oda has been building a marine civil war plot line, huh. And this impending civil war is indicated by what exactly? Smoker, Fujitora, Coby, & Aokiji's disapproval of some of the methods implemented by the world government? How does this (if it is this) guarantee the happening of this civil war?
You're fucking kidding right? ahaahahaha
Hollllly shit.Let's suppose this marine civil war will truly happen, are Coby, Smoker, Aokiji, and even Fujitora an adequate military power to win that war? They are at best two admirals, one vice admiral, & god-knows-what military rank Coby has now (but I am sure as heck it isn't an admiral rank YET) against two admirals (Green Bull and Kizaru), a fleet admiral (Akainu), possibly a former fleet admiral (Sengoku), dozens of vice admirals, rear admirals, commodores etc. That looks like a lost battle.
I love how you randomly put the average officers all on the Akainu side for absolutely no reason whatsoever. And also arbitrarily decided what the very ambivalent Sengoku would be on the Akainu side.
I mean I guess I shouldn't expect better of someone who hasn't been following a consistently tense plot line started in volume goddamned one, but still.
Also why would this Marine Civil War happened in a vacuum?? We're talking about the final events of the series.
The WG would be also fighting Revolutionaries and Strawhat allies and the Blackbeards and all sorts of things.Let's just say they somehow won that civil war despite their very low chances of victory against the other powerful individuals (some of whom are of the same level and others of an even higher one), how would their victory not make the government the final antagonist?
Again I know you're not packing in reading comprehension, but everything I'm saying is in the contest of a final conflict involving lots of people.
The Marine Civil War would be happening as the WG leadership itself is involved as well.
Also yeah the WG kind of needs it's army to function, and if forces like Aokiji and company win that's not good for the current rulers.
And fuck no I'm not talking about this in the context of your insane bullshit about the Marines being tiny meaningless puppets to some massive WG shadow army lollll.It's headed somewhere alright, but its destination does not necessarily have to be a civil war, unless you prove otherwise.
How the fuck you can you simultaneously believe that the WG is THE final villain that our heroes are going to take down. AND not think such a conflict will be necessity involve the friendly relations and connections steadily fostered with the army of that WG.
What the hell happens with all that plot line in your idea? Don't get all incredulous about my suggestion when you've completely ignored that entire plot line when it stands heavily unaccounted for in your vision.No, it doesn't. My suggestion just stands there being wrongfully accused of being weak because of the simple fact that it was advanced as a suggestion. That's a circular reasoning.
You can't use logical fallacies when you can't read lol. You routinely wildly misinterpret dialogue all over the place, and here you are completely incapable of even reading a basic sentence. You seriously think I'm saying it's wrong because literally you said it? What?? Who the fuck does that?
It is true that the World Government is, for now, unspecific, but it will have to boil down to some main fighters that represent the pillars of that organization. Kong should be one of them.
For now being Volume 82. This is an insanely weak argument and exactly my point of that statement.
This deep in the series and all you can say is "eventually maybe Oda will build up the final adversaries for the main cast, like maybe this guy we saw once".
The Blackbeard crew has been built up since Volume 15, with Oda hinting at some direct match ups along the way. Even now we stand at Oda's statement of soccer team size (11) Strawhats and he mentions the Blackbeard crew at eleven main members.
A process of characterization ongoing for nearly seventy volumes thus far.
This, this is why just saying World Government proves the weakness.
Because that's really all you can say. Whereas with the BB crew we can even see match ups man to man.The WG. It is a more dangerous & more powerful threat than the Blackbeard pirates.
I don't mean literally at the moment. Learn to read, it will help you make theories.
The WG for starters is not a single focused element. Another point you keep ignoring. Your awkward skirting around the matter of internal tensions in the Marines doesn't change that it's one the longest running plot lines in the series. One that already even happened in miniature with Aokiji vs Akainu. And thanks for posting a panel from the tensions between Akainu and the Gorosei.
In a chaotic final war where it starts to crumble form within and from without, nothing about that means it is the final final villain.And of course your response shows you as absolutely illiterate to what I was talking about. I was talking characterization, foreshadowing. Literary techniques.
And you blankly and robotically respond with a comment about raw power at current. WHOOSH.
It has exited and will continue to exist reigning supreme until something is done about it. Blackbeard, on the other hand, is just an ephemeral existence that will disappear over time.No. I said that Luffy should make possible the retrieval of the weapons by defeating Teech before the beginning or the 'conclusion' of the final war.
Yup. That's exactly what I just accused you of saying.
The end result of the Teach rivalry just comes down to that for some reason. Wonder why Oda has been building them up so much this whole time? Real mystery.In other words, the war could start while Luffy and Teach are duking it out. So as you can see, the retrieval of the weapons before the conclusion of the war won't make the role that Teech will fill a plot device to delay the revolutionaries' attack on the WG.
Oh ok so it delays them winning or gaining the upper hand. That's functionally the exact same goddamn thing lol.
The Blackbeard's end up just a plot device to delay some level of escalation of the final battle for the Revolutionaries. Pissing away what will at that point be decades of building them up as super villains.The insane weakness of your arguments comes down both to the aforementioned complete inability to read sentences like a normal human being, and also from really badly explaining away plot elements that don't support your conclusion.
1. You've basically just ignored how the huge lengthy "True Justice vs Absolute Justice" plotline figures into a war against the WG.
2. And the Blackbeard's exist for Luffy to fight I guess for some reason not really tied into the final battles (you haven't provided any place for them in all this), so that weapons can reach revolutionaries and effect the final battle. So it's not even really about the Blackbeards is it, it's about some stupid weapons we only just found out about lol.In both cases you seem utterly indifferent to how incredibly long Oda has been working on these two plot lines. Or you're experiencing incredible discomfort with them. Either way you can use every logic fallacy in the book and look like a sharp logical man, but you're horribly bad at actually examining evidence on the table.
Two huge plotlines since the earliest periods of the series? Eh, whatever.
A line you read in one speech balloon in some clearly unintended way? HEY EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT HOW THE MARINES ARE ACTUALLY IRRELEVANT AND THERE'S WAY MORE STRONG WG GUYS SOMEWHERE.Come the hell on.
Agreed, but that doesn't guarantee that he'll be the final antagonist. He is likely to be the final pirate antagonist, and that's that.
Which is a meaningless role that sounds like it's right outta the pre Robin days in some ways.
Hey here's the secret you sorts who suggest this "role" for the Blackbeards seem unawares of.
But uh….pirates are not a separate category of thing or topic from the big macro-plot with secret civilizations and governments on mountains. It's all the same plot.
There isn't some separate "Pirate Plot" going on which needs it's own villain for some reason. The pirate plot is intertwined entirely with the larger plot. The quest for the One Piece is the same quest for the True History.
Hell even you are treating it like a worthless meaningless role, with your "that's that" lol.
Like you know you just awkwardly placed Blackbeard in the plot mailroom and are glad to be rid of this huge plotline Oda's worked so much on, because gosh it was just so inconvenient to the plot you have in your head.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Personally I think there are two main plots.
One Piece and then the WG
Yeah no. Just got done pointing out how this is incredibly untrue, and seems like a really bizarre bit of thinking left over from earlier chapters.
Like some people are still in the mindset of One Piece as simple pirate adventure, but naturally have to also accept the ancient secrets and government plot existing.
So they just…segregate them mentally.
But they aren't segregated.BB is the only one in contention for the One Piece IMO unless the Navy tries to get involved. As the final goal of the series is One Piece and probs the battle to get there BB has a strong chance to be the final villain
Which doesn't make any sense at all given the sinister mysterious quality Oda characterizes the crew and man himself with.
The role you're talking about doesn't have greater meaning or context. It's a simple pirate battle, part of the simple plot. Before the complex and secret filled one gets going.
Except Blackbeard isn't some random meathead, he's a weird dude with a D in his name who can eat two fruits and lurks behind the horizon of the plot at many points.The only thing for me is why would Oda have set the SH in the middle of the whole 'what is justice' thing set it motion by Smoker, Fuji and Coby and not have them participate in the actual overthrow of the Government. For me it does't make sense to me to have the 'Great War' that overthrows the WG to be before the SH reach the One Piece.
I don't think a single person has ever suggested that the great war happens before reaching Raftel. Whitebeard himself pretty much confirmed that it won't happened that way to begin with.
Essentially what I am saying is the WG as a whole will be the final villain with half the Navy/Countries on SH side and the other half on Akainu's/WG side. But once the people know the true history then they will want to overthrow the WG or something. I just don't see the WG going down and THEN the SH fighting the BB pirates
And this relies on the flawed logic that sees the secrets of the true history as being black and white, about how the government took puppies and rainbows and locked them away and destroyed Santa Claus in the process.
When not only does that ignore ways Oda's approached it, but also ignored the very real knowledge we have of dangerous super weapons being part of what is hidden away in that knowledge.
A more complex conflict than that means the government in of itself isn't the end all be all.
And hell look at a few things.
Three weapons. Three. A final war where three weapons will no doubt be unearthed. And you think there could only be two sides?
And we already had a preview of the war, with the final one suggested as being like that except waaaaay bigger in scale. And what happened there?
Three way conflict with Luffy and allies on one side, government troops on another, and then the Blackbeards.
You think the Marineford battle wasn't foreshadowing anything? -
@Monkey:
Yeah no. Just got done pointing out how this is incredibly untrue, and seems like a really bizarre bit of thinking left over from earlier chapters.
Like some people are still in the mindset of One Piece as simple pirate adventure, but naturally have to also accept the ancient secrets and government plot existing.
So they just…segregate them mentally.
But they aren't segregated.Which doesn't make any sense at all given the sinister mysterious quality Oda characterizes the crew and man himself with.
The role you're talking about doesn't have greater meaning or context. It's a simple pirate battle, part of the simple plot. Before the complex and secret filled one gets going.
Except Blackbeard isn't some random meathead, he's a weird dude with a D in his name who can eat two fruits and lurks behind the horizon of the plot at many points.I don't think a single person has ever suggested that the great war happens before reaching Raftel. Whitebeard himself pretty much confirmed that it won't happened that way to begin with.
And this relies on the flawed logic that sees the secrets of the true history as being black and white, about how the government took puppies and rainbows and locked them away and destroyed Santa Claus in the process.
When not only does that ignore ways Oda's approached it, but also ignored the very real knowledge we have of dangerous super weapons being part of what is hidden away in that knowledge.
A more complex conflict than that means the government in of itself isn't the end all be all.
And hell look at a few things.
Three weapons. Three. A final war where three weapons will no doubt be unearthed. And you think there could only be two sides?
And we already had a preview of the war, with the final one suggested as being like that except waaaaay bigger in scale. And what happened there?
Three way conflict with Luffy and allies on one side, government troops on another, and then the Blackbeards.
You think the Marineford battle wasn't foreshadowing anything?So in the case you are presenting the WG AND the BB pirates are the final villains of One Piece then? Or am i misunderstanding what you are saying?
That makes a lot more sense actually… I think just the fact that BB and the WG are enemies makes me want to separate the two from each other. So would you say this battle would take place on Raftel or somewhere else? The victor claiming the One Piece? is the WG just trying to stop the True history being revealed?
One thing I don't know if I can agree with you on is the fact that I don't think the SH and or BB pirates defeating the Navy or even the Gorsei would make the WG topple. I think that that has to start up at the World Nobles so i feel like while one may cause the other they aren't the same thing.... So in the case all 3 of them fight how would the WG get taken over?
Also sry I honestly didn't really want to read the huge long posts you have been participating in. I figured I could get a quick answer like I did from you. I know that might piss you off but really wasn't into seeing all that. Sry for all the stupid questions