Chapter 798: Heart

[Ned_Gutters]

@Wintry:

Concerning the panda translation, at the point where Law and Sengoku are having a conversation, I read it again and it seems that it is actually correct BUT still sucks. It says "Don't go writing it off as an act of love or something" so it's 2 negatives (Don't+write off)=1 positive. It's just like he is saying to Traffy "It's not like he didn't love you". It is a very complex translation and you can very well misunderstand, unless you read it 5-10 times over :P At least that's how many times it took me, because I was acting like I have so much time to spare, trying to make excuses for the translators :blink::getlost: (i'm having a hard time to believe that people can translate that badly :P )

Writing off isn't a negative. It is a colloquialism that means to discount, disregard, dismiss, or otherwise reject, with an implication of labeling (writing) something as something else.

You can say "Don't write it off," and that is not a double negative - it is the same as saying: Don't disregard it.

Then we have the slightly more complicated, but more common "Don't write it off as…" This means: Don't disregard it, thinking that such and such.

Because of this complicated independent/dependent clause structure (don't disregard subject1, thinking that such and such), we can't just translate "Don't disregard" as "Do regard;" or, at least it isn't helpful to. See below)

So an example: "Don't write me off as too young."
This definitely doesn't mean I am too young (on your analysis, it does). it means don't disregard me, thinking I'm too young.

(Double negative translation would be: Do regard me, thinking I'm too young. The thinking I'm too young no longer does any work - we just have a command to regard me, and follow it with something the person thinks, but we don't connect the two - we don't say that we should or shouldn't regard them for that reason or that we are right or wrong to think I'm too young.)

In One Piece, the example is: "Don't go writing it off as an act of love or something." Well, we need to know what "it" is. "It" was Coras saving Law (generally) as well as his self-sacrifice (specifically).

He's saying not to disregard or dismiss what Cora did, thinking it was love.

There is a connection here between the command and the "thinking…" that gets lost when we translate it as a double negative. That results in "Do regard what he did, thinking it was love," and tells us nothing about whether or not he is right to think it is love.

It's a weird thing to say. Sengoku definitely wanted to make a claim about whether or not Cora loved Law, and on the double negation account, he doesn't - He just says, yeah you think he loved you, maybe you're right I have nothing to say about that, but regard what he did. And that just isn't how "Dont write it off as..." works. That just shows how badly Panda screwed the pooch :P

[Wintry]

@Ned_Gutters:

Writing off isn't a negative. It is a colloquialism that means to discount, disregard, dismiss, or otherwise reject, with an implication of labeling (writing) something as something else.

You can say "Don't write it off," and that is not a double negative - it is the same as saying: Don't disregard it.

Then we have the slightly more complicated, but more common "Don't write it off as…" This means: Don't disregard it, thinking that such and such.

Because of this complicated independent/dependent clause structure (don't disregard subject1, thinking that such and such), we can't just translate "Don't disregard" as "Do regard;" or, at least it isn't helpful to. See below)

So an example: "Don't write me off as too young."
This definitely doesn't mean I am too young (on your analysis, it does). it means don't disregard me, thinking I'm too young.

(Double negative translation would be: Do regard me, thinking I'm too young. The thinking I'm too young no longer does any work - we just have a command to regard me, and follow it with something the person thinks, but we don't connect the two - we don't say that we should or shouldn't regard them for that reason or that we are right or wrong to think I'm too young.)

In One Piece, the example is: "Don't go writing it off as an act of love or something." Well, we need to know what "it" is. "It" was Coras saving Law (generally) as well as his self-sacrifice (specifically).

He's saying not to disregard or dismiss what Cora did, thinking it was love.

There is a connection here between the command and the "thinking…" that gets lost when we translate it as a double negative. That results in "Do regard what he did, thinking it was love," and tells us nothing about whether or not he is right to think it is love.

It's a weird thing to say. Sengoku definitely wanted to make a claim about whether or not Cora loved Law, and on the double negation account, he doesn't - He just says, yeah you think he loved you, maybe you're right I have nothing to say about that, but regard what he did. And that just isn't how "Dont write it off as..." works. That just shows how badly Panda screwed the pooch :P

Yes, you are right. I didnt know how to put it in a better way to explain myself, but you just found the way :P As for the translation of panda it sucks a lot, they miss the spirit of the main scenes of the chapter as I said earlier and I agree with you. I feel the need to apologise for having you spent time commenting that crappy translation :ninja: Thanks for finding the right words for explaining though!!!

Another thing; maybe Sorachi-sensei really likes Sengoku and Oda-sensei is depicting that in those panels! :happy: Or maybe we should expect a OP-Gintama anime/manga crossover at some point (OK I think I went too far haha )

[Ned_Gutters]

@Wintry:

Yes, you are right. I didnt know how to put it in a better way to explain myself, but you just found the way :P As for the translation of panda it sucks a lot, they miss the spirit of the main scenes of the chapter as I said earlier and I agree with you. I feel the need to apologise for having you spent time commenting that crappy translation :ninja: Thanks for finding the right words for explaining though!!!

Another thing; maybe Sorachi-sensei really likes Sengoku and Oda is depicting that in those panels! :happy: Or maybe we should expect a OP-Gintama anime/manga crossover at some point (OK I think I went too far haha )

Oh no, definitely no apology necessary. I enjoy posts like yours - people trying to figure out what something means, or the significance of something, whether it is just linguistic, or symbolic, or what have you - and I'm just trying to do the same thing.

Also: I just had to do some research to understand what you meant in the latter part of this post (Sorachi-sensai, Sengoku, etc.). That is also fun :P

[uniaka ikuzakas]

1. Aokiji shows up after Fujitora beats Luffy, to retrieve Burgess or what's left of him. Luffy and team escape.

2. Luffy battles Fujitora with g4, uses his df power to escape along with the ship.

3. Fujitora plays his ''dice'' one more time: ''To fight Straw hat or not to?'' Luffy is saved by the dice

4. Sanji gets bored of kicking Kaidou's crew at Zou, goes to Dressrosa, kicks Fujitora'as and saves everyone.

Take your pick

[Qaaz]

5. Law saves the day

[G8trH8tr]

@The:

5. Law saves the day

6 Les Claypool from primus busts out a funky bass line and there's a dance number that leads the strawhats and allies safely away from the marines

[TheGreatestSwordsman]

@Teclo:

I can't see this being the definitive fight between Luffy and Fujitora. Not least because they need the admirals to remain threatening and aloof for most of the rest of the series. It's also only 2 chapter until 800 and something climactic will happen then. I'd casually guess at something like Kaidou turning up and causing Luffy and Fuji to have to work together. I don't know… On one hand if Luffy ends up escaping in some way it'll make his speech about not running away seem really stupid. On the other hand if he does stay and wins against Fuji, it'll make the admirals seem much less of a threat from now on. So yeah, the Kaidou thing does solve that.

Zoro "There is nothing I cannot cut."

[King Cannon]

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Zoro "There is nothing I cannot cut."

He says this when about to cut rock. Not to mention that line was part of a praying.

Zoro: Vvvvhhhh…!! Nine mountain ranges and eight oceans... // ...form one world......!! // A thousand worlds form a Small Thousandfold World......!! Raise to the power of three... // ...and there is nothing I cannot cleave. // Vvvvvhhhh... // Santouryuu... // Ougi!

Honestly, it's funny how you took such a line at face value.

[ICEMAN]

@uniaka:

1. Aokiji shows up after Fujitora beats Luffy, to retrieve Burgess or what's left of him. Luffy and team escape.

2. Luffy battles Fujitora with g4, uses his df power to escape along with the ship.

3. Fujitora plays his ''dice'' one more time: ''To fight Straw hat or not to?'' Luffy is saved by the dice

4. Sanji gets bored of kicking Kaidou's crew at Zou, goes to Dressrosa, kicks Fujitora'as and saves everyone.

Take your pick

4. Fujitora creates a new island with the rubbles he gathered in the sky.

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Has Powermanga been removed? You can only access the forum now, not the manga reader and Batoto removed all OP chapters

[Nitwit]

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Has Powermanga been removed? You can only access the forum now, not the manga reader and Batoto removed all OP chapters

What? TPP! :( WHY?

[Galaxy 9000]

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Has Powermanga been removed? You can only access the forum now, not the manga reader and Batoto removed all OP chapters

Only on Batoto. You can still find chapters on the website.

http://read.powermanga.org/series/one_piece/

[Nitwit]

@Galaxy:

Only on Batoto. You can still find chapters on the website.

http://read.powermanga.org/

http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/one-piece-digital-colored-comics-r10004

[Ned_Gutters]

@King:

He says this when about to cut rock. Not to mention that line was part of a praying.

Honestly, it's funny how you took such a line at face value.

It was weird that he said it about rock. He's been cutting rock for a long time now.

BUT: With the exception of "there is nothing I cannot cut/cleave," the rest of that little speech is pretty much directly out of a specific Buddhist metaphysic (I'm not entirely sure what school of Buddhism advocates this thousandfold world, and thousand fold cubed stuff). Buddhists, at least on the books, aren't all that interested in cutting things in half. That last part refers specifically to Zoro, not Buddhist philosophy.

Though I do see your point. It was a kind of prayer. I see Zoro as a somewhat meditative character now-a-days, and saying that could have just been part of the practice, rather than necessarily having to be something he believes to be true. Eastern religions (though Buddhism is not always religious) especially often focus on practice rather than belief. So, "There is nothing I cannot cut" might not actually represent something Zoro believes.

I probably took it a bit too seriously when it happened as well… Maybe I still do :P

[MiyamotoMusashi]

@Galaxy:

Only on Batoto. You can still find chapters on the website.

http://read.powermanga.org/series/one_piece/

Oh, nice thanks very much

[DynamiteShikoku]

big mom might showed up.

maybe she wasnt in the ship when they chase sanji. pekoms and tamago report their failure and big mom got angry and decided to go to dressrosa herself.

she will clash with fuji + sengoku + tsuru while law force luffy to retreat.

it would be a proper introduction for her. fighting an admiral as soon as she shows up.

[ZorosApprentice]

Hmmmm any chance that maybe Shanks and his crew shows up? Causing Fuji and the rest of the Navy to reconsider engaging both Luffy and Shanks. Then Shanks and Luffy talk and exchange pleasantries which maybe makes for an eventual Kidd Alliance plus Kaidou vs Shanks Luffy Law lol

[Johnny B. Decent]

Screw it, all the Yonkou should show up. Make it a party.

[King Cannon]

@Ned_Gutters:

It was weird that he said it about rock. He's been cutting rock for a long time now.

BUT: With the exception of "there is nothing I cannot cut/cleave," the rest of that little speech is pretty much directly out of a specific Buddhist metaphysic (I'm not entirely sure what school of Buddhism advocates this thousandfold world, and thousand fold cubed stuff). Buddhists, at least on the books, aren't all that interested in cutting things in half. That last part refers specifically to Zoro, not Buddhist philosophy.

Though I do see your point. It was a kind of prayer. I see Zoro as a somewhat meditative character now-a-days, and saying that could have just been part of the practice, rather than necessarily having to be something he believes to be true. Eastern religions (though Buddhism is not always religious) especially often focus on practice rather than belief. So, "There is nothing I cannot cut" might not actually represent something Zoro believes.

I probably took it a bit too seriously when it happened as well… Maybe I still do :P

To be fair, he had never cut a mountain-sized rock.

I mean, do you believe Zoro can cut diamond and seastone already? He himself can't cut fire yet despite it being possible as shown by Kin'emon. He has even shown interest in learning it.

[The Franky Tank]

This is why I'm 100% sure my scenario is going to happen at this point. So many people here are 100% sure that Luffy stands no chance against Fujitora for some reason. As far as where we are in the story, Fujitora won't lose, but we need to set up that Admirals in the New World can't just come in and wreck everything.

It's going to be a reverse Kizaru moment is some ways. Luffy will be able to fight back and do some damage, and while Fujitora in the end could beat Luffy in a one on one fight, with everyone else backing him up he would not be able to do anything. Luffy said he can't run away from challenges at this point, so having an Admiral back down would not go against that, and Fujitora having to back down because of numbers would not look bad on him. This is the best way to resolve things. Having Luffy make that statement then have anything else happen would be bad writing.

[Ned_Gutters]

@King:

To be fair, he had never cut a mountain-sized rock.

I mean, do you believe Zoro can cut diamond and seastone already? He himself can't cut fire yet despite it being possible as shown by Kin'emon. He has even shown interest in learning it.

Oh I completely agree with you.

Just to argue it anyway, though: He did say there is nothing he cannot cut. This implies that - of all things - there aren't any that he can't cut. It is debatable whether or not "fire" is a thing. Actually, there is a kind of "flame" conception of self considered by many Buddhist schools (not to say endorsed; there tends to be more favor for a "tornado" kind of view…), specifically utilized to show that the self - just like a flame - is not a thing.

But, in any case, I think you're right in your rhetorical question: I don't think Zoro can currently cut diamond. Seastone? Maybe - I admittedly don't know how hard that stuff is supposed to be. According to the wiki, it is sometimes used to reinforce structures, making them "nearly indestructible." I'm not sure how that compares to other materials, though.

On the other hand, all of this is moot in light of your earlier point that it is (merely) part of a prayer. If this was part of a practice, rather than a set of propositions that Zoro believes to be true, then we have no idea whether or not he himself believes he can cut anything, nor do we have any reason to suspect that merely saying those words means that he must necessarily believe them.

It's sort of like calling someone a son of a bitch. You don't really believe something about their mother (at least you needn't), but instead it's a verbal practice that plays some other sort of role - expressing disdain, for example.

If Zoro's claim about cutting everything is just part of a practice or ritual (maybe it is, maybe it isn't), which functions to get him stoked or something, then we needn't take him as literally believing he can cut anything.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

@The:

This is why I'm 100% sure my scenario is going to happen at this point. So many people here are 100% sure that Luffy stands no chance against Fujitora for some reason. As far as where we are in the story, Fujitora won't lose, but we need to set up that Admirals in the New World can't just come in and wreck everything.

It's going to be a reverse Kizaru moment is some ways. Luffy will be able to fight back and do some damage, and while Fujitora in the end could beat Luffy in a one on one fight, with everyone else backing him up he would not be able to do anything. Luffy said he can't run away from challenges at this point, so having an Admiral back down would not go against that, and Fujitora having to back down because of numbers would not look bad on him. This is the best way to resolve things. Having Luffy make that statement then have anything else happen would be bad writing.

I agree with you.

[j0asS]

@Ned_Gutters:

I don't think Zoro can currently cut diamond. Seastone? Maybe - I admittedly don't know how hard that stuff is supposed to be. According to the wiki, it is sometimes used to reinforce structures, making them "nearly indestructible." I'm not sure how that compares to other materials, though.

Seastone is as hard as diamond. Zoro first should learn to cut the diamond, after that he will learn to cut seastone.

!

[Jabberwok]

I don't think this was mentioned previously, but the control Fujitora demonstrates when lifting all that rubble is remarkable. He lifts only the debris, no people or other items. That degree of specificity across an entire island is pretty insane. It further supports the idea that he acting clumsy for his own purposes earlier, both on Green Bit and against Sabo. If we really see Fujitora open up here we should be in for a treat, though of course that depends on his own agenda.

[King Cannon]

@Ned_Gutters:

Oh I completely agree with you.

Just to argue it anyway, though: He did say there is nothing he cannot cut. This implies that - of all things - there aren't any that he can't cut. It is debatable whether or not "fire" is a thing. Actually, there is a kind of "flame" conception of self considered by many Buddhist schools (not to say endorsed; there tends to be more favor for a "tornado" kind of view…), specifically utilized to show that the self - just like a flame - is not a thing.

But, in any case, I think you're right in your rhetorical question: I don't think Zoro can currently cut diamond. Seastone? Maybe - I admittedly don't know how hard that stuff is supposed to be. According to the wiki, it is sometimes used to reinforce structures, making them "nearly indestructible." I'm not sure how that compares to other materials, though.

On the other hand, all of this is moot in light of your earlier point that it is (merely) part of a prayer. If this was part of a practice, rather than a set of propositions that Zoro believes to be true, then we have no idea whether or not he himself believes he can cut anything, nor do we have any reason to suspect that merely saying those words means that he must necessarily believe them.

It's sort of like calling someone a son of a bitch. You don't really believe something about their mother (at least you needn't), but instead it's a verbal practice that plays some other sort of role - expressing disdain, for example.

If Zoro's claim about cutting everything is just part of a practice or ritual (maybe it is, maybe it isn't), which functions to get him stoked or something, then we needn't take him as literally believing he can cut anything.

It's never a bad thing thing to have two points.

But the big, general point is that there's little to believe that he can really cut anything now, especially through what appears to be just a prayer/creed/mantra/oath, instead of a factual statement. It doesn't help that he was talking to himself, which supports the notion of that being just something to help his focus.

@Jabberwok:

I don't think this was mentioned previously, but the control Fujitora demonstrates when lifting all that rubble is remarkable. He lifts only the debris, no people or other items. That degree of specificity across an entire island is pretty insane. It further supports the idea that he acting clumsy for his own purposes earlier, both on Green Bit and against Sabo. If we really see Fujitora open up here we should be in for a treat, though of course that depends on his own agenda.

Selective gravity is such a weird thing.

[Dranza]

I'm of the belief that someone else will come and face Fujitora and he'll truly be able to showcase how strong he is because, let's face it, he's been holding back the entirety of this arc and no offense to Luffy but he will get his ass handed to him.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Dranza:

I'm of the belief that someone else will come and face Fujitora and he'll truly be able to showcase how strong he is because, let's face it, he's been holding back the entirety of this arc and no offense to Luffy but he will get his ass handed to him.

The ultimate villain of this particular saga is Kaido, someone who is even stronger then the Admirals. So, yeah, he has to be strong enough to fit one of them. If not, then the time skip was a waste of time.

[RobZilla]

@Dranza:

I'm of the belief that someone else will come and face Fujitora and he'll truly be able to showcase how strong he is because, let's face it, he's been holding back the entirety of this arc and no offense to Luffy but he will get his ass handed to him.

It depends what you mean by ass handed to him.

Defeated? Probably.

Smacked around with the carefree ease that Kuzan and Borsalino showcased pre-timeskip? No way.

If Luffy can take down a pirate of Doflamingo's caliber, and with relative ease at that (when he showcased Gear Fourth, which we haven't seen the limit of), then he'll more than likely give a good account of himself against an admiral.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@S.C.:

The ultimate villain of this particular saga is Kaido, someone who is even stronger then the Admirals. So, yeah, he has to be strong enough to fit one of them. If not, then the time skip was a waste of time.

I see admiral as the equivallent of yonkou in the marines. I would not place admirals under the yonkous, even if they seem to have the titles. They are there to balance the marines vs pirates, so 1 admiral should be on par with 1 yonkou.

So yeah, even if Luffy can fight people like that now, a battle should still point out that guys like that are still above him.

G4 is still a time limited power boost.

[King Cannon]

@uniaka:

I see admiral as the equivallent of yonkou in the marines. I would not place admirals under the yonkous, even if they seem to have the titles. They are there to balance the marines vs pirates, so 1 admiral should be on par with 1 yonkou.

So yeah, even if Luffy can fight people like that now, a battle should still point out that guys like that are still above him.

G4 is still a time limited power boost.

The balance of three powers states that the Marines + Warlords = Emperor crew, so by this logic, the Emperors seem to be stronger.

There's a reason that the idea of two Emperors joining forces is motive for major panic.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@King:

The balance of three powers states that the Marines + Warlords = Emperor crew, so by this logic, the Emperors seem to be stronger.

There's a reason that the idea of two Emperors joining forces is motive for major panic.

I think the warlords are there because yonkous have commanders like ace, jozu, marco, vista that are very strong and vice admirals kinda suck.

[King Cannon]

@uniaka:

I think the warlord are there because yonkou have commanders like ace, jozu, marco, vista that are very strong and vice admirals kinda suck.

Which means 3 Admirals for one Emperor, so…

[ARTEMlS]

I don't think anybody of the two will get defeated here.

It'll be a little skirmish which shows two things: 1) Luffy can hold his own and 2) Fuji is a force to be reckoned with.

My guess is the fight will get stopped by outside forces - but not without showing the payoff from the timeskip i. e. that Luffy finally has not to run from Admirals any more like in EVERY instance beforehand.

[KageKageKing]

It would be cool if Zoro stepped on and requested Luffy for allowing him being the one to take on Fujitora in Dressrosa and make the crew go to Zou without him and making him absent for a whole year like Sanji.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@KageKageKing:

It would be cool if Zoro stepped on and requested Luffy for allowing him being the one to take on Fujitora in Dressrosa and make the crew go to Zou without him and making him absent for a whole year like Sanji.

That kind of goes against the whole statement Luffy said this chapter. And how would he get back?

[KageKageKing]

@S.C.:

That kind of goes against the whole statement Luffy said this chapter.

Well, Zoro is under him so if Zoro>Issho then Luffy>Issho as well. In b4 LOLOLOL POWER LEVEL talk.
@S.C.:

And how would he get back?

He can swim you know. And he would take Wicca with him.

[ARTEMlS]

Also about Luffy's strength: Let's be honest, the boss of this whole saga is Kaido, and whereas it may start as some kind of melee, at the very end it will be a one-on-one.

Nothing else I expect from the end of this saga. At the climax I expect the highest tension and the highest stakes we've seen - surpassing everything beforehand.

So, Luffy will take on Yonko very soon. Therefore he definitely should be able to hold his own here.

[Luca]

I've never been a fan of those yonkou above admiral statements, also because both sengoku and garp in their prime were portrayed to be pretty close in strength to the pirate king.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@LordEnel:

I've never been a fan of those yonkou above admiral statements, also because both sengoku and garp in their prime were portrayed to be pretty close in strength to the pirate king.

Just something to think about: Besides the already-said example of the Marines needing all three admirals and 100,000 troops plus all seven Warlords to take on one of the Yonkou, if the Admirals were these invincible death-machines some think they are who could beat one of said Emperors and their crew with their own fleet easily enough, then there wouldn't be much of a reason why they let these guys just do what they want, would they?

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@S.C.:

Just something to think about: Besides the already-said example of the Marines needing all three admirals and 100,000 troops plus all seven Warlords to take on one of the Yonkou, if the Admirals were these invincible death-machines some posters think they are who could beat one of said Emperors and their crew with their own fleet no problem, then there wouldn't be much of a reason why they let these guys just do what they want, would they?

There is this problem that admirals are by far the best in the marines. Unlike yonkous that have commanders like jozu and marco, the vice admirals are used as hype tools.

So they would have to send the admirals together to take down 1 yonkou because they have commanders that vice admirals can't beat, on top of all the many allies. And they would also be much more likely to win.

And the war was such a clear example. marines vs 1 yonkou, they lost the yonkou himself and 2 commanders. marines lost only some non important fighters like some vice admirals and some fodders.

Based on what I saw, I think think any of the former admirals, Aokiji, Akainu, Kizaru, any of them would stand a chance with WB. Didn't we even see all 3 tank haki attacks from WB?

[Johnny B. Decent]

@uniaka:

And the war was such a clear example. marines vs 1 yonkou, they lost the yonkou himself and 2 commanders. marines lost only some non important fighters like some vice admirals and some fodders.

Based on what I saw, I think think any of the former admirals, Aokiji, Akainu, Kizaru, any of them would stand a chance with WB. Didn't we even see all 3 tank haki attacks from WB?

Thatch was already dead before the event happened and Ace sacrificed himself to save Luffy. And Whitebeard himself was a sick, dying old man who knew this would be his last battle, no matter the outcome.

And true, they did stop a quake, but by all three working together. Individually, it would be less then likely to work.

[Screwtape]

@The:

This is why I'm 100% sure my scenario is going to happen at this point. So many people here are 100% sure that Luffy stands no chance against Fujitora for some reason. As far as where we are in the story, Fujitora won't lose, but we need to set up that Admirals in the New World can't just come in and wreck everything.

It's going to be a reverse Kizaru moment is some ways. Luffy will be able to fight back and do some damage, and while Fujitora in the end could beat Luffy in a one on one fight, with everyone else backing him up he would not be able to do anything. Luffy said he can't run away from challenges at this point, so having an Admiral back down would not go against that, and Fujitora having to back down because of numbers would not look bad on him. This is the best way to resolve things. Having Luffy make that statement then have anything else happen would be bad writing.

Having fujitora back down from his word and orders that he will take down luffy while at the same time luffy backing down from his definitive statement about beating these heavy foes now instead of running would be terrible writing because it is a simple contradiction of the resolve of these characters. Battles resolve issues and luffys answer for the admiral is battle it out and likewise for fujitora.

[desa]

@S.C.:

Just something to think about: Besides the already-said example of the Marines needing all three admirals and 100,000 troops plus all seven Warlords to take on one of the Yonkou, if the Admirals were these invincible death-machines some think they are who could beat one of said Emperors and their crew with their own fleet easily enough, then there wouldn't be much of a reason why they let these guys just do what they want, would they?

Whitebeard also brought a bunch of allies, then Luffy added a bunch of escapees. Personally I saw the marines being on top the entire time but that's a personal feeling I guess.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@desa:

Whitebeard also brought a bunch of allies, then Luffy added a bunch of escapees. Personally I saw the marines being on top the entire time but that's a personal feeling I guess.

It was also more of a rescue mission for the pirates, which is why they had to fight past all these obstacles, could not linger too long in fights as the had to keep moving, and Whitebeard had to restrict the destructiveness of his DF. After all, wouldn't do much good if Ace sank along with the rest of the island.

[desa]

@S.C.:

It also should be noted it was more of a rescue mission for the pirates, which is why they had to fight past all these obstacles, could not linger too long in fights, and Whitebeard had to restrict the destructiveness of his DF. After all, wouldn't do much good if Ace sank along with the rest of the island.

Doesn't change that their military power seemed massively inferior to the marines for me. But like I said it's personal.

[Dranza]

@RobZilla:

It depends what you mean by ass handed to him.

Defeated? Probably.

Smacked around with the carefree ease that Kuzan and Borsalino showcased pre-timeskip? No way.

If Luffy can take down a pirate of Doflamingo's caliber, and with relative ease at that (when he showcased Gear Fourth, which we haven't seen the limit of), then he'll more than likely give a good account of himself against an admiral.

If Luffy can use gear fourth longer than when he used it against Doflamingo I think he could stand toe to toe with admirals, no question about it. That time limit is what concerns me, plus whereas Doffy was dodging gear third attacks Fujitora just tanked it, so Luffy without gear fourth isn't packing enough punch still. He'll showcase his improvement but against someone who slightly has a soft spot for him from this arc I don't think Fujitora will go all out either but he'll do enough to show Luffy he needs to improve still.

[Ned_Gutters]

Borsalino backed off from Ben Beckman alone. (Granted, that means shanks is around).

Just sayin'.

[desa]

@Ned_Gutters:

Borsalino backed off from Ben Beckman alone. (Granted, that means shanks is around).

Just sayin'.

He put his hands in the air, greet Beckham and then shot Law submarine. I don't call that backing down.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@desa:

Doesn't change that their military power seemed massively inferior to the marines for me. But like I said it's personal.

It's easy to play defend than attack, the yonko was doing the most work by attacking all the marines had to do is defend and stop them.

If it was a free for all no offense or defense I'm sure WB would've really gone all out including admirals and other commanders.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Ned_Gutters:

Borsalino backed off from Ben Beckman alone. (Granted, that means shanks is around).

Just sayin'.

It's obvious Kizaru was mocking Ben Beckmann.

[Ned_Gutters]

@desa:

He put his hands in the air, greet Beckham and then shot Law submarine. I don't call that backing down.

I guess it depends on his character - it could just be his smartassery/laziness rather than backing away from duty.

But, he was going to shoot the deck at a given time, with people on board, and Beckman at least delayed this attack, making him find a more opportune time to attack. He at least considers Beckman a threat.

On the other hand; you're right. That doesn't mean quite as much as I had previously thought. Thanks!

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@DARK_RITUAL:

It's obvious Kizaru was mocking Ben Beckmann.

I'm not so sure it was mocking. It's entirely possible that it is just part of his goofy personality; he saw Beckman and stopped attacking, but also put his hands up as a kind of goofy joke. But, we've seen Borsalino when he is 4srs, at Soboady, and there it took nothing short of Silvers Rayleigh to halt or even delay his attack.

I would think if he didn't consider Beckman a threat, he would fire anyway, then make fun of Beckman. The hands up thing is maybe a way of mocking him, but the fact that he stopped his attack does say something. As to what (or how much) it says… Well, I've addressed that above in this comment. It doesn't mean as much as I thought, but it still does mean something.

[desa]

@Ned_Gutters:

I guess it depends on his character - it could just be his smartassery/laziness rather than backing away from duty.

But, he was going to shoot the deck at a given time, with people on board, and Beckman at least delayed this attack, making him find a more opportune time to attack. He at least considers Beckman a threat.

The thing is Kizaru position didn't change. Beckham was still targeting him and he was still in the same position. We even have Beckham commenting on him still wanting to go so it wasn't like Kizaru took him by surprise.