@uniaka:
Guess BB has competition. Kidd for Shanks.
Ouch, BB doesn't look that certain anymore, does he?
Kid is going to be crushed
The Final Villain
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Kid is going to be crushed
So 4 supernovas of the worst generation that will replace the old generation will be crushed by the old generation. Ok, could be.
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@uniaka:
So 4 supernovas of the worst generation that will replace the old generation will be crushed by the old generation. Ok, could be.
When has it ever been suggested that the Worst Generation is going to entirely replace the old generation? I mean, I don't know how you can argue that when you've got one of the highest pretimeskip members now working under Kaidou. And Shanks is way too important to be killed by someone like Kid. I feel like the whole point is to showcase how strong Shanks, a man with one arm who we've never actually seen fight, is in a real combat situation (As opposed to just implying his Strength a lot). I also think it'd be very disappointing if the Yonkou's fell so easily to the worst generation given how they've been built up. Plus, Luffy has already stated he plans to taken on all 4 emperors, don't expect any of them to lose if Luffy's not involved or nearby (I think Shanks will be killed by Blackbeard, but I think Luffy will at least be around when that happens)
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@uniaka:
So 4 supernovas of the worst generation that will replace the old generation will be crushed by the old generation. Ok, could be.
The Old generation is still very strong. Think about how strong Garp, Sengoku, the Admirals, and Dragon are. Also, Whitebeard, who was 72 and still the strongest mother fucker out there until he pretty much committed suicide rushing the Marines to save Ace.
Then there's Shanks, who, even with only 1 arm, was able to clash with Whitebeard (although it wasn't a real fight, but w/e), was able to battle Kaido and still made to Marineford without much trouble, was on Rogers' crew, has an amazingly large and strong crew of his own, was able to end the battle at Marineford by basically flaunting his reputation, and has Emperor's Haki (which will end up weakening anyone else who doesn't have it).
The great thing about OP is that Oda doesn't abuse the shounen cliche where young people automatically become stronger than older people. Despite being the MC, Luffy has gotten his ass kicked around people who are older than him on several occasions. So even if there are 4 young Supernovas of the worst generation facing Shanks, it's still going to be a gigantic uphill battle for them given Shanks is a mother fucking juggernaut who even the World Government doesn't want to deal with and rules a significant portion of the New World. Personally, I don't see how Luffy can even beat Big Mom or Kaido at this point, so who knows who Kidd and co. plan on doing it.
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Definiantly not blackbeard.
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@uniaka:
Guess BB has competition. Kidd for Shanks.
Ouch, BB doesn't look that certain anymore, does he?
It could be quite the opposite. Even if the alliance does not defeat Shanks, at least some form of Shanks' power base to weaken is quite likely, leaving BB, opportunistic as ever, to take advantage.
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Kidd will likely be given a role comparable in size to Law, but the idea of him being the endgame bad guy is like Boba Fett or Lando being The final obstacle in Return of the Jedi.
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@uniaka:
So 4 supernovas of the worst generation that will replace the old generation will be crushed by the old generation. Ok, could be.
Obviously i mean just look at how Xdrake took over Kaidou's postion …..... Oh wait .......
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@Doffy.:
Obviously i mean just look at how Xdrake took over Kaidou's postion …..... Oh wait .......
You know Drake can ally with law and luffy too take down Kaidou. And since he had a past encounter with Law, this looks even more likely. He can't take down Kaidou alone, that's why the supernovas work together.
@Steven:
Kidd will likely be given a role comparable in size to Law, but the idea of him being the endgame bad guy is like Boba Fett or Lando being The final obstacle in Return of the Jedi.
Even if Kidd looks evil, supernovas look more like rivals then villains. I didn't imply that Kidd can be final villain.
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Isn't Blackbeard technically the New Generation? Don Chinjao seemed to think of him as so.
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Isn't Blackbeard technically the New Generation? Don Chinjao seemed to think of him as so.
He is not technically. He totally is New Generation.
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@Steven:
Kidd will likely be given a role comparable in size to Law, but the idea of him being the endgame bad guy is like Boba Fett or Lando being The final obstacle in Return of the Jedi.
true. Excellent post. Except this is ONE PIECE. Truth is we have no clue who is? Could be celestial dragons, could be 5 elders, could be shanks? We don't know much about him.
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@uniaka:
So 4 supernovas of the worst generation that will replace the old generation will be crushed by the old generation. Ok, could be.
Shanks is only 39 years old. Several of the "worst generation" are older than him. Including two of the supernovas.
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Well, this is One Piece, everything can happen!
I'm still hoping for a random rabbit goddess as final boss because boobs.
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Shanks is only 39 years old. Several of the "worst generation" are older than him. Including two of the supernovas.
Age is irrelevant in this case. Shanks's belongs in the old generation, and Whitebeard alluded to that during his meeting with him when they were talking about Garp and Sengoku.
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I guess the World Government will be the final villain. Not sure if the Gorousei can actually fight though… maybe the CP0 are super strong and serve as WG's top fighters. Maybe their appearance now is just so we know they exist.
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Everybody needs to look at 2 very important factors here:
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Oda is a master in planting seeds on early for any future plot purposes.
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One Piece thrives on the element of 'Over Shadowing'.
So if we're talking about the 'FINALE', and judging how Oda has preached about how writing the final arc is the main thing that motivates him to continue, I can safely assume that he has had the Final Villain and Final Battle planned since the BEGINNING.
That right there should spell out everything for us.
Who was the first person we saw with Luffy?
Who was it that inspired Luffy to become the Pirate King?
Who was it that was with Gol D Roger's crew?
Who is probably the ONLY Person (besides Buggy and Rayleigh) that know where the One Piece is hidden?
Who is now probably the strongest Pirate alive after Whitebeard died?How come this person says he isn't interested in the One Piece? You're telling me it has NOTHING to do with the fact that he nor anybody can enter Raftel unless they are D?
How come this person was pretty much confident that Luffy would be the one to reach Raftel?Lets break the ice here. Shanks is probably the most powerful Haki user there is (so far) in the series. So I wouldn't doubt that when he met Luffy, he immediately sensed that Luffy had inherited the Will Of D as well as the THE EXACT SAME Haki as his former captain. And that's when all of it started.
That would also explain the question on why he would go so far for Luffy as far as to even lose an arm. Speaking of which, maybe that missing arm is a means for Oda to make us automatically dismiss Shanks as a villain, just so he can swerve everyone at the end.
It's right there in front of us. The promise that Luffy would return the Strawhat once Luffy became a 'Great Pirate' basically spells it out for us. It's even been overshadowed more than once.
It is the object that's ALWAYS been with Luffy and that would do whatever it takes to protect it.
It is the MAIN SYMBOL of the series! It is what the Strawhats were named after! It all links to SHANKS!
No Shanks = No Luffy, No StrawHats, No promise, No Adventure. He is the entity that started it all for Luffy and the Strawhats.
He is Luffy's hero, the main inspiration and reason on why Luffy even wanted to become a pirate to begin with!
Even back in Marineford when he told Buggy to return the hat to Luffy and commented that he 'couldn't wait to meet Luffy later'. Once Shanks fully gets Luffy to do his bidding, he will take the Strawhat away from him and fight him during the final war in a very poetic, emotional and EPIC final battle!Shanks has been here since the FIRST CHAPTER!
It is the ultimate Poetry In Motion climax.Gol D Roger's Apprentice ( Shanks ) vs Gol D Roger's Inherited Will ( Luffy )
I doubt it can be either Akainu or Blackbeard. Because they were both introduced pretty late in the story (especially Akainu). And plus, we already saw both of them get OBLITERATED by Whitebeard. To have the final battle with a person that we know is not even close to being the strongest and one that we've already seen get wrecked? I don't know, seems very anti-climactic. Gorosei is a better choice. Even though I'm not a fan of that neither.
I also do see Coby being a major candidate as Final Opponent for Luffy. It doesn't seem far fetched to me at all. Especially if he ends up being Fleet Admiral at the end.
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Interesting points.. However Shanks is nowhere near Gol D Rogers level. The person who has the same power as the previous Whitebeard + the Yami Yami seems to have a big opportunity for growth. I don't necessarily like Blackbeard, but that's what it seems like.
If Luffy is going to surpass roger, he won't do it defeating Shanks.
Oda having an idea for an ending doesn't necessarily have to be with the characters from the start. Oda already had the ending in his head. When the possible final villain would be introduced into the series is a different question and that would play into how Oda wants to have that final war.
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I doubt it can be either Akainu or Blackbeard. Because they were both introduced pretty late in the story
Mocktown was late in the story? Blackbeard was introduced before Franky was, back when Going Merry was still around.
Also, Blackbeard getting his ass kicked is further setting him up as Luffy's antithesis. Blackbeard is basically an evil Luffy.
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- One Piece thrives on the element of 'Over Shadowing'.
Oh is that what they call it.
Who was the first person we saw with Luffy?
In your head how exactly did you interpret "Oda had the finale planned from the start" to "The literal start of the series is Oda building the finale".
These two are completely different concepts.Who was it that inspired Luffy to become the Pirate King?
Who was it that was with Gol D Roger's crew?
Who is probably the ONLY Person (besides Buggy and Rayleigh) that know where the One Piece is hidden?
Who is now probably the strongest Pirate alive after Whitebeard died?What does any of this have to do with a final villain.
How come this person says he isn't interested in the One Piece? You're telling me it has NOTHING to do with the fact that he nor anybody can enter Raftel unless they are D?
Yeah.
How come this person was pretty much confident that Luffy would be the one to reach Raftel?
Because he saw a confident ambitious dreamer in Luffy like himself. That's a really easy question I don't know why you'd ask it?
Lets break the ice here. Shanks is probably the most powerful Haki user there is (so far) in the series. So I wouldn't doubt that when he met Luffy, he immediately sensed that Luffy had inherited the Will Of D as well as the THE EXACT SAME Haki as his former captain. And that's when all of it started.
No that's dumb and boring, I think we should go with the human and relateable plot point of a skilled dude in a field seeing the eye of the tiger in a young boy who wants to join the field when he grows up. Which haki is kinda tied to, but not in the dumb magic way you're talking.
That would also explain the question on why he would go so far for Luffy as far as to even lose an arm.
Let's go back to all the scenes in the series where people interact for various instinctive and emotional reasons and just reinterpret them as being prophetic magic sensor moments.
Like it COULD be that Shanks deeply connects to this little kid that he sees himself in and does something drastic to save him, or Luffy is the prophecy child born to complete a cycle. Hmm.Speaking of which, maybe that missing arm is a means for Oda to make us automatically dismiss Shanks as a villain, just so he can swerve everyone at the end.
I think Oda's given us a billion other reasons to dismiss him as a villain, which probably indicates he is not a villain.
The promise that Luffy would return the Strawhat once Luffy became a 'Great Pirate' basically spells it out for us. It's even been overshadowed more than once.
It is the object that's ALWAYS been with Luffy and that would do whatever it takes to protect it.Yes, a symbolic reminder of his main inspiration for doing everything he does.
It is the MAIN SYMBOL of the series! It is what the Strawhats were named after! It all links to SHANKS!
So instead of the meaning behind the symbol, from an author who himself worships an older author like a God, is actually fake and just a red herring?
Nope.Even back in Marineford when he told Buggy to return the hat to Luffy and commented that he 'couldn't wait to meet Luffy later'. Once Shanks fully gets Luffy to do his bidding, he will take the Strawhat away from him and fight him during the final war in a very poetic, emotional and EPIC final battle!
That would be extremely dumb, also not at all poetic, emotional or epic.
Shanks has been here since the FIRST CHAPTER!
So what.
It is the ultimate Poetry In Motion climax.
There is not anything poetic about it at all.
Gol D Roger's Apprentice ( Shanks ) vs Gol D Roger's Inherited Will ( Luffy )
Ok but your premise exists entirely on Shanks secretly being an asshole who just wants to use Luffy…except his plan to do so is not a plan at all since he's only once ever done something to help Luffy along.
When in fact right now he could just scoop Luffy up and bring him to Raftel. Also all those times Luffy almost died and...so on and on.I doubt it can be either Akainu or Blackbeard. Because they were both introduced pretty late in the story (especially Akainu).
Ok so we're at Volume 80 nearly right now and could easily have 40 more.
And Blackbeard was first mentioned in Volume 15, and showed up in Volume 24.
Boy that's not pretty late at all. At all.And plus, we already saw both of them get OBLITERATED by Whitebeard.
Whitebeard got a good hit in on Blackbeard, a character who has since gotten stronger and stronger.
What are you saying.
To have the final battle with a person that we know is not even close to being the strongest
Oh also that was two years ago as well.
I also do see Coby being a major candidate as Final Opponent for Luffy. It doesn't seem far fetched to me at all. Especially if he ends up being Fleet Admiral at the end.
This is another tremendously stupid idea that has been shut down many times in this thread.
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Yes it's called 'Over Shadowing'.
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As an author, when you come up with a story, the next thing you should do alongside that is come up with the ending. Oda originally planned the series to be for just 5 years. So with that, I doubt that he even had the character Akainu to even exist. That is why Shanks being there in chapter 1 for what was planned to be a 250 chapter manga is a major clue that this character was going to be given a VERY large role.
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All of those things that I mentioned are plot purposes that all tied up to Shanks being the main source and reason why Luffy became what he is today.
4 & 5) You're going to just believe that that's just the case? And how exactly is that NOT boring?
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I'm not alluding to magic. I'm alluding to one's senses. Like how Blackbeard met Luffy for the first time. There's a theory that when he called Luffy a liar for saying that his bounty was 30 million, Teach was actually calling Luffy a liar because he felt that his bounty was too LOW because he sensed Luffy's strong Haki. Plus even so, are you seriously trying to dumb down magic here? When we're in a world of Devil fruits, Superhuman strength, Mermaids, Haki, talking seakings, GHOSTS, and people predicting the freaken future? I think some sort of 'magic' is the last thing anyone needs to get worked up over.
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Again, that's just too naive and dull. And Trust me, the last thing I want Luffy to end up being is the 'destined prophecy child' and basically turn into Jesus. cough Naruto cough
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Lemme guess, Shanks wanting to talk to Whitebeard to prohibit Ace from going after Blackbeard? Who knows what's the main reason why he wanted to prevent that. We barely know much about Shanks other than what he did for Luffy, the fact he was in Gol D Roger's ship and that now he's one of the strongest pirates alive.
9 ) Yes exactly. It's a symbolic reminder that a part of Shanks has been with Luffy all the way since day 1 of the series. Even Garp how many times blamed Shanks for inspiring Luffy to become who he is. This is basically all Shank's doing.
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I don't understand.
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How is it not poetic? It's the main symbol of Luffy's LIFE, given by the man that inspired him to become I pirate WHICH again happened all the way back to the first chapter. If the 'Day' arrives when Luffy is supposed to give back the Strawhat to Shanks…just like that, without anything happening? After all that build up for that freaken hat? Then that's just... I don't know.
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As I said, seeing Oda's methods and how he loves to emotionally tie in early events with MUCH later events, what bigger way is there to tie in the very last battle then with the first encounter.
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If you don't find that interesting in the least, then I don't know what to tell you..
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You're right about that. But then again goes back to my point of how Shanks might have sensed his captain's Haki in him and had no doubt that he'd make it to Raftel alone. I'm just going on a limb but we don't know much about Raftel other than the strongest of D's are allowed to enter, perhaps they needed to unlock a certain level of Haki. Again it's a stretch. But I'm telling you right now that I don't want this to happen, but I have a bad feeling that there's going to be some 'reincarnation' crap between Luffy and Roger that all links to the Will Of D.
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Almost 150 chapters? Yeah that's pretty late for the ordinary viewer. It doesn't matter how long the series is planned on lasting, 150 chapters are still long, no matter how you put it. What if the final villain is someone we haven't even met yet? Would that make sense even if the series is planned to last another 80 more volumes from now?
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No no, Blackbeard got BUSTED and obliterated just by one hit from Whitebeard and Teach crapped his pants! Even to the point of begging for his life. UNLESS he carried a certain will and had an AMAZING master like Rayleigh, 2 years after that won't make much of a difference, even if he has another Devil Fruit. Shanks on the other hand went toe to toe with Whitebeard on his ship and stopped Newgate's attack with ONE ARM with a regular dagger! And to your point it's been 2 years since then, so Shanks must've gotten stronger too.
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Blackbeard was 38, and now he is 40. Assuming he trained for two whole decades before the timeskip, you think adding another 2 years would make such a difference? Even if he has got 2 Devil Fruits, when it comes to Haki or Stength, I doubt he trained those. He probably trained to master the Gura Gura fruit. Even before the timeskip, judging by what we've seen his Haki and strength don't even come close to Shanks.
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Trust me there have been a lot of 'tremendously stupid ideas' that have been looked down upon and then turned out to be right (example Shirahoshi being an Ancient Weapon all along).
At the end all I'm saying is that we should all keep our eyes on Shanks. He's been there since the first chapter, has made a 'big promise' with Luffy, is apperantly the strongest pirate alive (Excluding Whitebeard & Roger since they've passed) and we found out that APPARENTLY you can only enter Raftel if you're a D.
At the end, I appreciate this discussion. -
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You know what? I though first that the final villain would be Blackbeard but after seeing the "lone wolf" movements of Ao Kiji (and the fated fight they will have since a long time ago), maybe he will be the last one to be defeated after the threat of blackbeard crew is over.
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I don't normally consider banning brand new members for awful and dumb posts. But some days…
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Mocktown was late in the story? Blackbeard was introduced before Franky was, back when Going Merry was still around.
Also, Blackbeard getting his ass kicked is further setting him up as Luffy's antithesis. Blackbeard is basically an evil Luffy.
True, that's why if there is a choice between BB and Akainu, I'm going with BB. Though 150 chapters is still pretty late for the average viewer.
When it comes to BB being compared to Luffy That is 100% true imo. He is the anti-Luffy. Which is why he is one of the MAIN villains of the story. Just not the final villain in my eyes.For me comparing him to Shanks it's simple. When it comes to strength, Shanks is stronger. When it comes to history and backstory, Shanks has more than BB too. Which is why Shanks to me is the better candidate overall.
Not saying that BB has nothing. We barely got to see what both Shanks and BB can do, but everytime we do, it ends with BB crying on the floor and getting his ass kicked. And on the otherside we see Shanks freaken stopping the war just by being there.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Interesting points.. However Shanks is nowhere near Gol D Rogers level. The person who has the same power as the previous Whitebeard + the Yami Yami seems to have a big opportunity for growth. I don't necessarily like Blackbeard, but that's what it seems like.
If Luffy is going to surpass roger, he won't do it defeating Shanks.
Oda having an idea for an ending doesn't necessarily have to be with the characters from the start. Oda already had the ending in his head. When the possible final villain would be introduced into the series is a different question and that would play into how Oda wants to have that final war.
That's true. Though when it comes to Blackbeard, even when he gained control of both Devil Fruits, when Shanks stepped in, he crapped his pants and blatantly admitted that he was not ready for Shanks.
If we're talking about who's the strongest now? It's still definitely shanks IMO. Even when both Whitebeard and Blackbeard were in Marineford, the war didn't stop. It's when SHANKS came then everybody froze.
Shanks also went toe to toe with Whitebeard when he blocked Whitebeard's attack with just ONE arm with a dagger. Plus his HAKI is immensely powerful.When it comes to Shanks being on Roger's level, I don't think it's that big of a stretch. Especially if Shanks has a hidden Devil fruit that he obtained during the years. There are theories that he even has the Devil fruit that allows him to freeze time. That could explain how he managed to get to Marineford so fast WHILE going through Kaido without even a scratch on him.
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True, that's why if there is a choice between BB and Akainu, I'm going with BB. Though 150 chapters is still pretty late for the average viewer.
When it comes to BB being compared to Luffy That is 100% true imo. He is the anti-Luffy. Which is why he is one of the MAIN villains of the story. Just not the final villain in my eyes.I dont know about the Kaido scenario. If As for shanks having a fruit, i dont know.. But interesting theory.
For me comparing him to Shanks it's simple. When it comes to strength, Shanks is stronger. When it comes to history and backstory, Shanks has more than BB too. Which is why Shanks to me is the better candidate overall.
Not saying that BB has nothing. We barely got to see what both Shanks and BB can do, but everytime we do, it ends with BB crying on the floor and getting his ass kicked. And on the otherside we see Shanks freaken stopping the war just by being there.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That's true. Though when it comes to Blackbeard, even when he gained control of both Devil Fruits, when Shanks stepped in, he crapped his pants and blatantly admitted that he was not ready for Shanks.
If we're talking about who's the strongest now? It's still definitely shanks IMO. Even when both Whitebeard and Blackbeard were in Marineford, the war didn't stop. It's when SHANKS came then everybody froze.
Shanks also went toe to toe with Whitebeard when he blocked Whitebeard's attack with just ONE arm with a dagger. Plus his HAKI is immensely powerful.When it comes to Shanks being on Roger's level, I don't think it's that big of a stretch. Especially if Shanks has a hidden Devil fruit that he obtained during the years. There are theories that he even has the Devil fruit that allows him to freeze time. That could explain how he managed to get to Marineford so fast WHILE going through Kaido without even a scratch on him.
Well, the way I see it is, if Shanks as an emperor is equal to Whitebeard who, mind me, is way past his prime then Roger is a pretty big stretch.
As I've said before with Blackbeard, Blackbeard has a massive opportunity for growth. He only just obtained his devil fruits. He's had both for 2, years now, only. Im not sure how old Luffy would be when he fights Blackbeard, however both will have grown a lot.
I
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- Yes it's called 'Over Shadowing'.
No.
- As an author, when you come up with a story, the next thing you should do alongside that is come up with the ending. Oda originally planned the series to be for just 5 years. So with that, I doubt that he even had the character Akainu to even exist. That is why Shanks being there in chapter 1 for what was planned to be a 250 chapter manga is a major clue that this character was going to be given a VERY large role.
Shanks is the wise old mentor figure, of course he has a very large role. Even if he turned up dead in chapter 2 he would always have a large role.
- All of those things that I mentioned are plot purposes that all tied up to Shanks being the main source and reason why Luffy became what he is today.
None of which have anything to do with Shanks secretly trying to use Luffy as a key.
4 & 5) You're going to just believe that that's just the case? And how exactly is that NOT boring?
5 isn't boring, it's what we in the life business call "actual human type feeling and actions". Which actually resonate much more than Shanks reading a high ki level on his brain scouter and knowing Luffy is Confidence-Jesus. Which is cliche, immensely unsatisfying, bereft of emotional relatability, and all around dumb.
4, by the way when exactly again did Shanks say he wasn't interested in Raftel? I don't recall the context of that, please remind me.- I'm not alluding to magic. I'm alluding to one's senses. Like how Blackbeard met Luffy for the first time. There's a theory that when he called Luffy a liar for saying that his bounty was 30 million, Teach was actually calling Luffy a liar because he felt that his bounty was too LOW because he sensed Luffy's strong Haki.
Please stop talking about Haki like it's power levels. Oda hasn't exactly shied entirely away from that treatment himself, but the whole concept has ever been Oda weaponizing charisma. The point has always been the charisma. That the fearless confidence is something you can sense, one can sort of say this about real life too. The important aspect of Haki is all this, NOT the DBZ angle crap.
Because it loses sight of the realism in Shanks being inspired by a fearless boy, and turns it into some garbage about already knowing Luffy is a level 900 Confidence Ubermensch.Plus even so, are you seriously trying to dumb down magic here? When we're in a world of Devil fruits,
That's the only real magic we've seen for the most part. Oda even stated as such.
Superhuman strength, Mermaids,
Not magic.
Haki,
Not exactly magic. Sort of more like the Force. Vaguely East Asian spiritual power related stuff.
talking seakings,
Not magic.
GHOSTS,
Those were part of a devil fruit. Which you already mentioned.
I think some sort of 'magic' is the last thing anyone needs to get worked up over.
My point was you don't actually understand what Haki is. And have chosen the boring route on it.
- Again, that's just too naive and dull. And Trust me, the last thing I want Luffy to end up being is the 'destined prophecy child' and basically turn into Jesus. cough Naruto cough
I like that naive and dull to you are things actual human beings could relate to, and instead cool and wise I guess would be the most Bleach like interpretation of these moments. Like the most meatheaded shonen action oaf way of looking at it.
- Lemme guess, Shanks wanting to talk to Whitebeard to prohibit Ace from going after Blackbeard? Who knows what's the main reason why he wanted to prevent that.
He knew Ace was gonna get his ass kicked. And then Ace got his ass kicked.
We barely know much about Shanks other than what he did for Luffy, the fact he was in Gol D Roger's ship and that now he's one of the strongest pirates alive.
Occam's Razor suggests he's not a secret Aizen style villain.
9 ) Yes exactly. It's a symbolic reminder that a part of Shanks has been with Luffy all the way since day 1 of the series. Even Garp how many times blamed Shanks for inspiring Luffy to become who he is. This is basically all Shank's doing.
Being inspired by someone is not being puppeteered by someone into a master plan.
- I don't understand.
Oda worships Toriyama who I assume you know.
Oda planting a lovable uber idol for his main character fits with Oda's own approach on his own quest and general outlook on life.
Saying he intends to make Shanks evil is akin to asking if he secretly thinks Toriyama is evil.- How is it not poetic? It's the main symbol of Luffy's LIFE, given by the man that inspired him to become I pirate WHICH again happened all the way back to the first chapter. If the 'Day' arrives when Luffy is supposed to give back the Strawhat to Shanks…just like that, without anything happening? After all that build up for that freaken hat? Then that's just... I don't know.
You still haven't explained what's poetic about it. Luffy put a lot of faith in this guy for every discernible reason, then the guy ended up just trying to use him like a living key. It's about as poetic as a redneck football chant.
- As I said, seeing Oda's methods and how he loves to emotionally tie in early events with MUCH later events, what bigger way is there to tie in the very last battle then with the first encounter.
Why does the last battle need to be tied to the first encounter.
- If you don't find that interesting in the least, then I don't know what to tell you..
What part of your brain finds it satisfying for Shanks to have a non-plot aimed at using one specific D that he doesn't interact with over a decade of time almost ever until one final moment based entirely on being really good to a kid at some port town somewhere at some point in his life.
Also what part of you finds the remotest foreshadowing (this is what it's called) pointing toward an evil Shanks.- You're right about that. But then again goes back to my point of how Shanks might have sensed his captain's Haki in him and had no doubt that he'd make it to Raftel alone.
Or Luffy could have tripped and drowned in a duck pond the day after Shanks sets sail. Like all those little moments he almost died in the Ace/Sabo flashback.
The biggest problem with your Shanks Plan, is that there is no Shanks plan.
"He seemed really confident, so he'll reach the most dangerous place in the world some time in maybe ten years and then I'll be there hopefully when he does. Truly the only way to reach that place."
It's insanely dumb lol.I'm just going on a limb but we don't know much about Raftel other than the strongest of D's are allowed to enter,
This is not whatsoever a thing that has ever been said about Raftel.
perhaps they needed to unlock a certain level of Haki.
The worst theories about Raftel invariably revolve around treating it like a video game stage.
But I'm telling you right now that I don't want this to happen, but I have a bad feeling that there's going to be some 'reincarnation' crap between Luffy and Roger that all links to the Will Of D.
Hey I have a great solution to this, if you don't like these feelings in your gut…well never fear, your gut is very terrible and feeding you horrible intel. So disregard it and trust in th rest of us to do this thing.
- Almost 150 chapters? Yeah that's pretty late for the ordinary viewer.
It doesn't matter how long the series is planned on lasting, 150 chapters are still long, no matter how you put it.
One Piece took 12 volumes to even get done with the prologue portion of the story. The 12th volume is literally called "The Legend Begins".
You're wrong on this very badly.What if the final villain is someone we haven't even met yet?
That's a bad theory, much like your Shanks one.
- No no, Blackbeard got BUSTED and obliterated just by one hit from Whitebeard
Which is why he was up and running around right afterwards sure. I guess he ate a senzu bean or something I dunno.
and Teach crapped his pants! Even to the point of begging for his life.
In kind of a comical sleazeball way, such is his character.
UNLESS he carried a certain will and had an AMAZING master like Rayleigh, 2 years after that won't make much of a difference,
You're saying this about someone who conqeured his way through the New World and took over Whitebeard's old grounds, after already having taken Whitebeard's world damaging superpowers.
Shanks on the other hand went toe to toe with Whitebeard on his ship
Shanks and Whitebeard, two people who were not actual enemies, shared one blow that was probably not a part of mortal combat.
You somehow interpreted this to mean that Shanks fought equally in a huge deathmatch with Whitebeard. A thing that did not happened, and was not implied to happened.and stopped Newgate's attack with ONE ARM with a regular dagger!
It wasn't a dagger. You're just making stuff up left and right at this point.
And to your point it's been 2 years since then, so Shanks must've gotten stronger too.
Shanks is well known for his powers to absorb other Devil Fruits.
- Blackbeard was 38, and now he is 40. Assuming he trained for two whole decades before the timeskip, you think adding another 2 years would make such a difference?
Guess Franky and Brooke haven't improved at all in those two years because of the apparent fact that one gets more superpowers in their youth with every new year. But not in middle age.
Even if he has got 2 Devil Fruits, when it comes to Haki or Stength, I doubt he trained those.
Why would you doubt that.
He probably trained to master the Gura Gura fruit. Even before the timeskip, judging by what we've seen his Haki and strength don't even come close to Shanks.
Close enough to badly scar Shank's face that is. I like that it's Shanks you're ignoring most in arguing that Shanks is more powerful than Blackbeard by some huge amount.
- Trust me there have been a lot of 'tremendously stupid ideas' that have been looked down upon and then turned out to be right (example Shirahoshi being an Ancient Weapon all along).
I don't recall a single person suggesting that. Were you even around back then?
He's been there since the first chapter,
Say, so has the fishmonger in Luffy's town. What arbitrary story importance shall we thrust on him that isn't whatsoever presented by the text?
has made a 'big promise' with Luffy,
What promise are you talking about?
is apperantly the strongest pirate alive (Excluding Whitebeard & Roger since they've passed)
That has never been stated.
and we found out that APPARENTLY you can only enter Raftel if you're a D.
That has also never been stated.
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@Monkey:
No.
Hey I have a great solution to this, if you don't like these feelings in your gut…well never fear, your gut is very terrible and feeding you horrible intel. So disregard it and trust in th rest of us to do this thing. .
That's all I needed to read to understand what type of ' forum fan' I'm talking to.
You know, I would love to keep on having a 'friendly' discussion with you upon this topic. But I guess you're just one of those 'fans' that thinks his/her opinion is the righteous one. I have no problem heaving a healthy discussion, but why do forum fans like you feel the need to call other people's theories dumb? Did I bash your responses? I disagree with them yes, but never did I insult your intelligence. It seems like you just enjoy retorting one's opinions in a very arrogant manner. And don't think to yourself 'Oh that's because my responses are all logical so you can't disregard them as dumb'. Yes of course, seeing as how you clearly work for Oda himself and know exactly what's going to happen, then you can clearly dismiss my theories as 'awful & dumb'.So if it makes you feel any better, you won this forum debate.
P.S : Here's a link to the Shirahoshi theory that everyone dismissed it back then :
https://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/70305-Princess-Shirahoshi-is-One-of-ancient-weapon?Ciao.
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That's all I needed to read to understand what type of ' forum fan' I'm talking to.
You know, I would love to keep on having a 'friendly' discussion with you upon this topic. But I guess you're just one of those 'fans' that thinks his/her opinion is the righteous one. I have no problem heaving a healthy discussion, but why do forum fans like you feel the need to call other people's theories dumb? Did I bash your responses? I disagree with them yes, but never did I insult your intelligence. It seems like you just enjoy retorting one's opinions in a very arrogant manner. And don't think to yourself 'Oh that's because my responses are all logical so you can't disregard them as dumb'. Yes of course, seeing as how you clearly work for Oda himself and know exactly what's going to happen, then you can clearly dismiss my theories as 'awful & dumb'.So if it makes you feel any better, you won this forum debate.
P.S : Here's a link to the Shirahoshi theory that everyone dismissed it back then :
https://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/70305-Princess-Shirahoshi-is-One-of-ancient-weapon?Ciao.
This entire post is just lol worthy .
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I love it when Zephos just packs fudge on awful posters.
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Yes, would like it if he also shows how predictable 11 supernovas have been in the story, introduced in volume 1, clear rivals of Luffy since this manga started. Same for the yonkou villains.
But hey, this is One Piece.It doesn't get more predictable then this!
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Under that logic, the Quake fruit is also an acient weapon. Yes after the reveal of poseidon the phrase of "the power to destroy the world" is tied to the weapons, but before that, we had 1 and 1, no way of knowing definitely.
About evil shanks theory. Do you really think that Oda would betray his readers and Luffy that way? What would be the purpose of Shank's baby? Would Makino forgive him for using Luffy as cattle?
Speculating about Raftel it's very complicated because we know very little about it. I could say that Raftel is a candy island that can only be unlocked after cooking certain recipee and feeding it to a specific fish, who then turns into the island, and there's nothing in the text that contradicts it.
- Hard to get there, aparently only through the normal route
- Related to phoneglyphs and ancient history
- Roger and Raileigh (at least) were on it at some point
- Roger's treasure is there
- Before the island is Yonkou territory
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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Wow, seeing so much hate towards a single theory (regardless of how stupid it might be considered by the so-called smart forum members) really makes me want to see it come true. If you see a post you consider stupid you should just ignore it. Discussing is not the same as bashing. Right now I'm thorn between not wanting to see Shanks as the "final villain" and wanting to see all of you theory-haters being wrong. That Shirahoshi theory proves that 95% of a group can be wrong about One Piece far fetched theories.
I do not like the Shanks theory myself and I do not think it will come true… but just stop it with the freaking hating and calling other people stupid.
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About evil shanks theory. Do you really think that Oda would betray his readers and Luffy that way? What would be the purpose of Shank's baby? Would Makino forgive him for using Luffy as cattle?
You saying like it was already confirmed that Shanks is the father of Makino's baby.
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You saying like it was already confirmed that Shanks is the father of Makino's baby.
Whom else could it be?
The rooster looking bandit? Woopslap? Ace?
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That's all I needed to read to understand what type of ' forum fan' I'm talking to.
One with more insight and understanding of the series than you.
You know, I would love to keep on having a 'friendly' discussion with you upon this topic. But I guess you're just one of those 'fans' that thinks his/her opinion is the righteous one. I have no problem heaving a healthy discussion, but why do forum fans like you feel the need to call other people's theories dumb?
Because in your case, they are INCREDIBLY dumb and not supported by the story in any way.
Did I bash your responses?
The ones backed by facts and understanding of the narrative?
I disagree with them yes, but never did I insult your intelligence. It seems like you just enjoy retorting one's opinions in a very arrogant manner. And don't think to yourself 'Oh that's because my responses are all logical so you can't disregard them as dumb'. Yes of course, seeing as how you clearly work for Oda himself and know exactly what's going to happen, then you can clearly dismiss my theories as 'awful & dumb'.
No, your theories can be dismissed as dumb because they are awful.
So if it makes you feel any better, you won this forum debate.
Yes he did. By a mile. It wasn't much of a debate.
P.S : Here's a link to the Shirahoshi theory that everyone dismissed it back then :
https://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/70305-Princess-Shirahoshi-is-One-of-ancient-weapon?Because Mangahelpers is representative of this forum? The forum that actually studies the series full time.
Random mass guessing gets it right occasionally. The person guessing that though really had nothing backing their idea… though had it come up here at the time it might have gotten some legit discussion.
It's just like the new Nakama thread. Eventually someone in there is going to be right... sheerly based on the fact every new character with any screen time gets pegged as a candidate. 15 years ago they would have been right about Robin joining the crew, but not for any real reason.
Ciao.
Bye.
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Funniest thing I've read all day
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Because Mangahelpers is representative of this forum? The forum that actually studies the series full time.
Wow, you guys with little stars under your names really do think you're smarter than anyone else, don't you? Just because they prediction happened in another forum, then it's of no importance and random guessing? I've never seen so much disrespect happening in this forum as I've seen in the last couple of pages in this thread. And the disrespect came from the moderators (or sheriffs or whatever) themselves. What the heck is happening here? Leave the Shanks Theory guy alone. See the first reply to that theory made by SuburbanErrorist. He disagreed without being disrespectful. If you can't do that, just ignore a post you think it's stupid then.
(Thought: if I was happier reading the searies on my own for years without being an active member of the forum, why did I bother to come back recently? Go ahead and call me stupid for THAT)
"Now I'm living out here on the beach, but those seagulls are still out of reach."
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@Eat:
Wow, you guys with little stars under your names really do think you're smarter than anyone else, don't you? Just because they prediction happened in another forum, then it's of no importance and random guessing? I've never seen so much disrespect happening in this forum as I've seen in the last couple of pages in this thread. And the disrespect came from the moderators (or sheriffs or whatever) themselves. What the heck is happening here? Leave the Shanks Theory guy alone. See the first reply to that theory made by SuburbanErrorist. He disagreed without being disrespectful. If you can't do that, just ignore a post you think it's stupid then.
(Thought: if I was happier reading the searies on my own for years without being an active member of the forum, why did I bother to come back recently? Go ahead and call me stupid for THAT)
This is some real great irony you've mustered up here, keep up the good work.
Unless you actually mean all that shit, in which case
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Jesus Christ I didn't realize how purist we were until that textual beat down
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Cyan:
This is some real great irony you've mustered up here, keep up the good work.
Unless you actually mean all that shit, in which case
Well you guys kinda disrespected that guy, greatly, for little to no reason. Can't say I wasn't a little embarassed reading that conversation…. But at the same time I also feel extremely proud
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If Rayleigh manages to oversee the crowning of the new pirate king at his age I'd be truly impressed. All the guy does is get drunk, gamble, steal, hit up some brothels and laughs it all off. He's the true MVP of the series. The fact the guy knows where One Piece is, what it is, how one can get to it, the history of the void century, what all the poneglyphs say. He's already Pirate King status, he's living his life how he wants, does whatever he wants when he wants, he keeps a low profile so his friends don't get into harms way but damn he's above it all. I love it.
Year of Sanji, let's go!
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@Eat:
Just because they prediction happened in another forum, then it's of no importance and random guessing?
Actually, I said the opposite. I said if it came up here, it might have actually been debated.
If you actually check the link to the other forum, everyone on that forum said "it was a dumb idea" and in their own poll voted it down as a dumb idea 34-2 and it went for a handful of posts.We get lucky guesses AND dumb theories here all the time. Its not that this site is better than another, but it IS more focused on One Piece in particular.
Had it come up here, it still would have been dismissed, but it might have been debated for a while with pros and cons… simply because this is a One Piece focused site, we're more likely to waste a few weeks on that sort of thing... compared to a site not focused on OP.
Someone would have eventually REALLY latched onto the idea and written essays about it.The person presenting the theory didn't really have much to it. They happened to be right, but by luck more than actual reasoning or theorizing, based on what was known in the series at the time.
They said "Wouldn't it be neat if she was an ancient weapon, she's capable of a lot of destruction" and had nothing more than that. At a time when all the evidence of the series suggested the ancient weapons were all man-made.
That logic could have extended to many other things, such as WHitebeard's fruit. Its the same as people here going on about next nakama candidates just because they're female, despite mountains of evidence against them.
It'd be the equivalent of guessing that random marine in a dog hat was Luffy's grandfather in volume 6. Sure you'd be right eventually, but for no particular actual reason other than being one of thousands of people throwing crazy ideas out there. (Sure in hindsight you can see that he shared the beard of the grandpa of Oda's original pitch, but... Oda deliberatley kept that a hidden secret with the hat.)
Oda is VERY good about his storytelling structure. And we're respectful for the ammount of effort and storytelling he puts in, and try to help others grasp just how solid it all is. It's not "oh that wacky One Piece, ANYTHING can happen!" as is so often quoted.
We can't predict brand new characters (designs or powers) or plot twists Oda has intentionally kept completely secret, such as the CP9 reveal, or Garp, or one of the ancient weapons not being a man made boat... but the broad strokes? What generally happens next? Stupid tiny nuances that most people wouldn't bother noticing? All the locations of Pandaman? The forum has got a pretty good track record.
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If Rayleigh manages to oversee the crowning of the new pirate king at his age I'd be truly impressed. All the guy does is get drunk, gamble, steal, hit up some brothels and laughs it all off. He's the true MVP of the series.
Rayleigh doesn't hit up brothels!
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Well, Shakki seems to be enough.
Of course, after all a role model of a man like Rayleigh needs only one woman.
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Why do some people want surprise, out of nowhere baddies as the main villain so much? You could look at Moon Rabbit Lady in Naruto alone for why it's so terrible.
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@Eat:
Wow, you guys with little stars under your names really do think you're smarter than anyone else, don't you?
His star means Administrator, mine just means I've been around awhile and people recognize me as a community contributor or some sort. If you post a lot and you could get one too, the brown stars really don't mean much.
Just because they prediction happened in another forum, then it's of no importance and random guessing?
Mangahelpers isn't on the level of AP no.
I've never seen so much disrespect happening in this forum as I've seen in the last couple of pages in this thread.
Then you haven't really been posting/browsing here in spite of your 2008 sign up date.
And the disrespect came from the moderators (or sheriffs or whatever) themselves.
I'm not a mod.
What the heck is happening here?
Quality control. Better discussions can be had without low quality crazy person rants being tolerated.
It's a bit like asking why some sort of panel on some random thing like Military Build Up in Russia, wouldn't want people whose thesis concerns UFO's participate. Or if it did they would be mercilessly shut down rather than mollycoddled. It may not be pretty to you, but it serves a purpose from a modding perspective.
You might say it's precisely why mangahelpers doesn't compare.Leave the Shanks Theory guy alone. See the first reply to that theory made by SuburbanErrorist. He disagreed without being disrespectful. If you can't do that, just ignore a post you think it's stupid then.
I didn't call him dumb, just the theory. That's pretty respectful imo.
(Thought: if I was happier reading the searies on my own for years without being an active member of the forum, why did I bother to come back recently? Go ahead and call me stupid for THAT)
I'm on the cusp of listening to On The Beach btw, is it good?
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@S.C.:
Why do some people want surprise, out of nowhere baddies as the main villain so much? You could look at Moon Rabbit Lady in Naruto alone for why it's so terrible.
Especially since we have so many potential baddies already lined up.
